So, who rewatched the game and has legitimate takes?

[Eldorado]

Anybody else bored of the meltdown yet?

[Blart]

I'd like to see some in-depth analysis too.

[The MVPlaya]

Clady did not commit the holding call.

[theAPAOps5]

I don't get where people are saying the OL is bad at run blocking. Well maybe not on this site but some of the radio guys were saying that. They opened up some great holes. When he have a back who can take it to the house and break the first tackle I think they will change their tune.

[azbroncfan]

What is there to talk about that hasn't been discussed already. Cutler had an off day, injuries led to no WR's getting open due to playing scrubs. No pass rush since 1998, Safety play left something to be desired. ROLB on the MJD long td run overran the play and was washed out leading to the big run.

[Los Broncos]

Clady did not commit the holding call.

Said the same thing when I seen the replay, not even close.

But sometimes the calls go your way and sometimes they don't.

[bronco militia]

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc96/crackafoo1337/TwoLegit2quit.jpg

[Eldorado]

too legit..

[lex]

I don't get where people are saying the OL is bad at run blocking. Well maybe not on this site but some of the radio guys were saying that. They opened up some great holes. When he have a back who can take it to the house and break the first tackle I think they will change their tune.


We're spoiled. Most of us have been witness to one of the best running games in the history of the league and watched us win 2 SBs as a result of it. We see our team as it is today which is stronger at passing and while we run with some effectiveness, its set up by the pass. We drafted the best pass blocking LT, who has turned out to be awesome...possibly the best rookie this year...but he is better at pass protection. We also drafted a WR in the 2nd who also turned out to be even better than most expected. Basically, we loaded up to help Cutler by getting personnel to help in the passing game. If we had targeted the running game, that could have also helped Cutler and it would have been in line with the how we won SBs. But it goes back to the fact that we're a better passing team than running team and most of our running is set up by the pass. Having said that, Id love to draft Alex Mack next year if we're drafting in the 20s. I think he could give us a presence on the interior OLine that would help our running game. He really gets after it.

[broncofan4life]

we have no D people are calling us ENVER. Keep Champ,DJ, and Doom get rid of everybody else. Bly is garbage gets burned every game can't win like that.

[Malcontent]

I didn't re-watch it....I un-watched it, so I don't even know how the game turned out. I was hoping to find unbiased, thorough analysis here on the mane, but so far Popps, Apa, and Kaylore are the only source of that here.

[Tombstone RJ]

Anybody else bored of the meltdown yet?

The only thing I know is that I predicted this loss dead on.

[SoCalBronco]

I re-watched it. I was just as disgusted as yesterday. I'm not sure what's so unlegitimate about criticism. It's warranted, so deal with it. We're still doing pretty well at 4-2, but there's nothing wrong with criticism when we deserve it.

[Malcontent]

I re-watched it. I was just as disgusted as yesterday. I'm not sure what's so unlegitimate about criticism. It's warranted, so deal with it. We're still doing pretty well at 4-2, but there's nothing wrong with criticism when we deserve it.

Well then..critique away:approve:

[cutthemdown]

My thoughts are that the rebuilding continues:

We need a better RB. Maybe it's Torrain maybe not.
We need bigger Dends, sometimes the edge to our defense isn't there.
We need a much much better SS, FS, and SSL.

We need more depth at WR because Stokley a little long in the tooth and Jackson just not what we are looking for.

The whole team needs to spend more time on stripping the ball drills, holding onto the ball drills, how to properly tuck ball away. Tell both Cutler and Marshall that when they are in the open field you have to secure ball first, then go for yrds.

[Eldorado]

My take:

Cut was solid in the first half. 12/15, no drops. 10 of the 15 to WR. 2nd half he was 10/22, 11 going to bmarsh 7 incompletion's.


2nd our safeties suck. No surprise.

Our LB reaction time and gap assignments suck. For example, on MJD's 46 yrd TD. It was a 4-3, 1 deep. The line played it well, there was 1, very small gap between Robertson and Engleberger (who knocked his guy over, like I said the hole was small). The C walled out Robertson to the offensive left, the LG pulled and took out Bailey (just to the left of Engleberger and the RG) with the full back just on his left hip. The problem? All 3 lbs keyed on the FB and DJ cut across the center, ACROSS webster's line and gap (washing Webster out) attacking the FB who was leading to the OTHER side of the field. The result? 1 safety to outrun. It was close, but it was a LB's mistake. Same as the LJ run against KC (Winborn over pursuing and leaving the cutback lane).

This is the reason we can't blitz. Our safeties cannot erase mistakes.

A dominant front 4 can hide poor secondary play. A couple of erasures can allow for a solid front four and well played, sure tackling LBs to compress the field. As it is, we're missing either the dominant front 4 or the Erasures.








So, yeah.....I got nothin.

[BroncoMan4ever]

i saw the same thing that has been our weakness all year. Our safeties suck, our LB's overpursue and fill the wrong gaps, we don't get much pressure on the QB. And young players made young player mistakes. Our QB was playing without most of his major weapons, and we got jacked on a few calls.

[tsiguy96]

i saw the same thing that has been our weakness all year. Our safeties suck, our LB's overpursue and fill the wrong gaps, we don't get much pressure on the QB. And young players made young player mistakes. Our QB was playing without most of his major weapons, and we got jacked on a few calls.

1 safety, 1 DE and 1 RB in the draft who all turn out to be good will turn this team around 100%. we need defensive players in round 1, hopefully 2 of them. if we did that, we could have a very good team.

[Popps]

How about not passing on a guy like Rogers at discount prices. He's been tearing it up tonight. Tired of watching all of these linemen we "couldn't afford" go elsewhere and contribute.

[Fusionfrontman]

I don't get the beef with Bly. He holds his own. I mean, Champ is on the other side of COURSE people are going to throw his way. I heard something about Del rio sayign that if Champ was not the other corner and Bly was their number one they would be avoiding throwing to HIM.
Bly is not our problem.
BTW gotta give props to Websters effort yesterday. Guy kinda made me like him a little bit. Plays with a lot of heart. Can't argue with that

[Cito Pelon]

Well, I didn't have to rewatch the game to critique it. We're short on good all-around players and great playmakers on the D side. ONE legit INT all year, that by a DT, Marcus Thomas. Denver 2nd in pass attempts against in the AFC, last in INT's. Denver 3d in 20+ plays given up, 3d in 40+ plays given up. 2nd in pts allowed, still 6th in net points, but that on the strength of game one at Oakland.

This is still a decent O, but obviously TO's are hurting the scoring badly. It's worrisome the O is not scoring well in the 2nd half, despite most of the TO's coming in the first half. The D is giving up over 60% of the total pts in the 2nd half, and the O is scoring about 40% of the total pts in the 2nd half. Except for game one, whether ahead or behind to start the 2nd half Denver is getting outscored in the 2nd half, and really getting outscored badly in the 4th quarter. Only 4 TD's all year in the 4th quarter, two at Oakland in game one, one on the Hochuli deal, one yesterday. And other than those 4 TD's, only 3 FG's scored in the 4th quarter all year. The D isn't finishing games well, and neither is the O.

Denver 11th in the AFC in yds per KO return, 13th in longest KO return (31 yds by Selvin Young). Punt returns Denver is up at 2nd/3d in most categories, so that's a bright spot.

It sure is nice to be at 4-2. That really gives you a chance to make the playoffs, but they're gonna have to clean up the TO's. Less on O, more on D. And get the 2nd half cleaned up. I don't know how it's gonna turn out, but I hope for the best. I'm Sunshine Cito, and I approve this message.

[tsiguy96]

it would be nice if shanahan would stop taking his foot off the gas after a single score, which has been his weakness even in the super bowl era, except then we could do what jacksonville did to us yesterday, get a lead and hold it with the running game. not anymore. during first 3 games, he ran up the score quick and fast using the strengths of the team then we almost lost it because he tried to rely on the running game and horrible defense. our strength is cutler and co, why is he afraid to continue using it after we have a lead?

[tsiguy96]

one more thing, if we didnt turn over the ball on ridiculous fumbles in this game or the KC game, wed be 6-0 right now. we would have drove downfield this time and atleast got a FG, puts us up 2 scores in the first quarter. same with KC, fumbled near midfield twice.

[Doggcow]

Browns even getting pressure.

Even though NY just got super ****in lucky on that illegal contact.

Illegal contact seems to be the BS call of choice this week, ****.

[bpc]

Better discussion on this thread.

It's all been talked about ad naseum.

Cutler needs to play better. Less talking, more leadership is needed.

Our HB position is still an unknown quantity until we see Torain back there. If he doesn't show significant improvement in this area or at least hope for the future, we may have to address this position early in the draft.

WR is a position we need more stability from. BMarsh and Royal are going to be real good in the future however BMarsh is one slip up from being busted from the league. That's shaky ground. Stokley and DJack are older guys that are getting more and more injury prone. We need to solidify this area. Two straight years now where we've had injury problems at this spot. No more. Draft somebody 1st-3rd round. Relegate Stokley to a pure 3rd down player or 4th WR. Keep Martinez around. Make DJack prove he is healthy.

OL has been the best position of any this year. There should be multiple pro bowlers from this unit IMO.

DL has the same holes we always talk about. Build from the inside out though. We need a quality DT to pair with Marcus Thomas and hope the kid from VaTech pans out. If we are going to make a splash for a FA, Haynesworth would be hard to pass up if the Titans let him get away.

I know many people have blasted this group but I think that Webster has a role on this team. Boss Bailey played great between the KC and TB games. If he can stay healthy, he should be very good for us. DJ is DJ. I think we could use more depth here especially if we are going to play the 3-4 but I would work to fix the DT/SS problem vs. looking at the LB problem right now. That is just my opinion. I know they aren't perfect but there are far worse areas on the squad.

DB's are what they are. I hate the zone defense we play. I think it takes away from the talent in the area. Look how Jacksonville used Mathis. They blanketed him and S on Marshall and took him out of the game. Bly is solid. We hope Jack Williams will be a player. Paymah is no more than a special teams/4th CB type of player. Our safeties are the worst in the league. Two washout players come in and start over our previous incumbent players. This position is screaming for help in the offseason.

I still think we have a madly talented team. I still think the defense will get better, especially in the front seven. If we capitalize on our offensive opportunities against Jacksonville and we take them out of run mode early like we should of and put them in predictable passing situations and we have a whole different outlook on the game they played.

If we win next week we're 5-2 going into the bye week and looking at getting several players back including Torain. I don't so much care about how perfect we are right now in the season vs. getting this team ready to play in the 3rd month of the season, healthy and rolling with a good gameplan.

I don't think we are the most talented team but if we get playing a good brand of football, we could do some damage come playoff time.

[Malcontent]

Better discussion on this thread.

It's all been talked about ad naseum.

Cutler needs to play better. Less talking, more leadership is needed.

Our HB position is still an unknown quantity until we see Torain back there. If he doesn't show significant improvement in this area or at least hope for the future, we may have to address this position early in the draft.

WR is a position we need more stability from. BMarsh and Royal are going to be real good in the future however BMarsh is one slip up from being busted from the league. That's shaky ground. Stokley and DJack are older guys that are getting more and more injury prone. We need to solidify this area. Two straight years now where we've had injury problems at this spot. No more. Draft somebody 1st-3rd round. Relegate Stokley to a pure 3rd down player or 4th WR. Keep Martinez around. Make DJack prove he is healthy.

OL has been the best position of any this year. There should be multiple pro bowlers from this unit IMO.

DL has the same holes we always talk about. Build from the inside out though. We need a quality DT to pair with Marcus Thomas and hope the kid from VaTech pans out. If we are going to make a splash for a FA, Haynesworth would be hard to pass up if the Titans let him get away.

I know many people have blasted this group but I think that Webster has a role on this team. Boss Bailey played great between the KC and TB games. If he can stay healthy, he should be very good for us. DJ is DJ. I think we could use more depth here especially if we are going to play the 3-4 but I would work to fix the DT/SS problem vs. looking at the LB problem right now. That is just my opinion. I know they aren't perfect but there are far worse areas on the squad.

DB's are what they are. I hate the zone defense we play. I think it takes away from the talent in the area. Look how Jacksonville used Mathis. They blanketed him and S on Marshall and took him out of the game. Bly is solid. We hope Jack Williams will be a player. Paymah is no more than a special teams/4th CB type of player. Our safeties are the worst in the league. Two washout players come in and start over our previous incumbent players. This position is screaming for help in the offseason.

I still think we have a madly talented team. I still think the defense will get better, especially in the front seven. If we capitalize on our offensive opportunities against Jacksonville and we take them out of run mode early like we should of and put them in predictable passing situations and we have a whole different outlook on the game they played.

If we win next week we're 5-2 going into the bye week and looking at getting several players back including Torain. I don't so much care about how perfect we are right now in the season vs. getting this team ready to play in the 3rd month of the season, healthy and rolling with a good gameplan.

I don't think we are the most talented team but if we get playing a good brand of football, we could do some damage come playoff time.

Madly talented?? Disagree. Madly young and potentially talented? Yes. Otherwise nice take!

[BroncoMan4ever]

1 safety, 1 DE and 1 RB in the draft who all turn out to be good will turn this team around 100%. we need defensive players in round 1, hopefully 2 of them. if we did that, we could have a very good team.

agreed, although i think we need to address MLB early. we need to try to find a way to get 2-3rd round picks. so that we can draft,

MLB/DE/S/RB in the 1st 3 round and be guaranteed talent at all of the positions and then we become favorites and we don't see teams steam roll us.

[tsiguy96]

agreed, although i think we need to address MLB early. we need to try to find a way to get 2-3rd round picks. so that we can draft,

MLB/DE/S/RB in the 1st 3 round and be guaranteed talent at all of the positions and then we become favorites and we don't see teams steam roll us.

with how webster is playing, and i think its at a serviceable level for another year, i think we need to draft players who will make his job easier, DT and DE.

[Foochacho]

we have no D people are calling us ENVER. Keep Champ,DJ, and Doom get rid of everybody else. Bly is garbage gets burned every game can't win like that.

When did bly get burnt? Why do people always claim he gets burnt? He is an above average corner who would you rather have foxy or deltha? Those two know how to get burnt.

The only play that I can think of that you can say he got burnt was the long bomb where we luckily got it called back for a flag. And if that is your play you are thinking of I say you are wrong. He was in no way burnt on the play he was all over his man that was just an excellent pass the reciever didn't have two slow down one bit. If that throw is a little under dre makes a play.

I have no problem with people bad mouthing a player but I'm sick of everyone just saying he sucks and gets burnt without anything to back it up. It's like one person said it and now everyone feels it's true. My only problem with dre is he sucks at wrapping up but damn near everyone else on our d sucks at that too. Our corners shouldn't have to make as many tackles as they do if we didn't miss so many tackles up front.

[summerdenver]

My take:


Our LB reaction time and gap assignments suck. For example, on MJD's 46 yrd TD. It was a 4-3, 1 deep. The line played it well, there was 1, very small gap between Robertson and Engleberger (who knocked his guy over, like I said the hole was small). The C walled out Robertson to the offensive left, the LG pulled and took out Bailey (just to the left of Engleberger and the RG) with the full back just on his left hip. The problem? All 3 lbs keyed on the FB and DJ cut across the center, ACROSS webster's line and gap (washing Webster out) attacking the FB who was leading to the OTHER side of the field. The result? 1 safety to outrun. It was close, but it was a LB's mistake. Same as the LJ run against KC (Winborn over pursuing and leaving the cutback lane).

This is the reason we can't blitz. Our safeties cannot erase mistakes.

I heard Greg Cossel of NFL films (on that note if you are into Xs and Os his articles on sporting news are a great read) on fox radio after 1st week. He was asked how Ten stopped Jaguars run game and he explained that Jaguars staple play is to run between the tackles and they double team at the point of attack to create a seam for the RB. However, this did not work against Ten because of Albert the great who held his position and the LBs of Ten, who were very aggressive in the filling the A and B gaps. He said that LBs were in the gap even before RB was there. He also said that Ten has the best tackling secondary in the league which did not allow any big gains even if the RB broke thru.

[DarkHorse]

Turnovers and injuries lost us the game - pretty plain and simple. Jax is a team we always have problems with and we weren't playing our A game.

[David Wooderson]

How could we not stop Garrard? No excuse. He made us his bitch. Matt Jones was wide open. Bly was a joke.

[broncofan2438]

I think all the talk shows and the pregame interviews got to Cutlers head a bit. This game is big for us against NE

[BroncoBen]

Turnovers and injuries lost us the game - pretty plain and simple. Jax is a team we always have problems with and we weren't playing our A game.

B I N G O

[Punisher]

One Key turnover Marshall at the redzone but beside that he played a hell of a game and oh yea or D kind of did a bad job stopping the run.Its all good will bounce back on the Pats then hit that BYE week.(Knock on wood)......

[TallyBronco]

My take:
Our LB reaction time and gap assignments suck. For example, on MJD's 46 yrd TD. It was a 4-3, 1 deep. The line played it well, there was 1, very small gap between Robertson and Engleberger (who knocked his guy over, like I said the hole was small). The C walled out Robertson to the offensive left, the LG pulled and took out Bailey (just to the left of Engleberger and the RG) with the full back just on his left hip. The problem? All 3 lbs keyed on the FB and DJ cut across the center, ACROSS webster's line and gap (washing Webster out) attacking the FB who was leading to the OTHER side of the field. The result? 1 safety to outrun. It was close, but it was a LB's mistake. Same as the LJ run against KC (Winborn over pursuing and leaving the cutback lane).


Good analysis. Sometimes it looks like DJ is trying to play all three positions.

Who is our LB coach? Six games into the season and it's the same mistakes over and over again.

[azbroncfan]

My take:

Cut was solid in the first half. 12/15, no drops. 10 of the 15 to WR. 2nd half he was 10/22, 11 going to bmarsh 7 incompletion's.


2nd our safeties suck. No surprise.

Our LB reaction time and gap assignments suck. For example, on MJD's 46 yrd TD. It was a 4-3, 1 deep. The line played it well, there was 1, very small gap between Robertson and Engleberger (who knocked his guy over, like I said the hole was small). The C walled out Robertson to the offensive left, the LG pulled and took out Bailey (just to the left of Engleberger and the RG) with the full back just on his left hip. The problem? All 3 lbs keyed on the FB and DJ cut across the center, ACROSS webster's line and gap (washing Webster out) attacking the FB who was leading to the OTHER side of the field. The result? 1 safety to outrun. It was close, but it was a LB's mistake. Same as the LJ run against KC (Winborn over pursuing and leaving the cutback lane).

This is the reason we can't blitz. Our safeties cannot erase mistakes.

A dominant front 4 can hide poor secondary play. A couple of erasures can allow for a solid front four and well played, sure tackling LBs to compress the field. As it is, we're missing either the dominant front 4 or the Erasures.








So, yeah.....I got nothin.


On the long MJD TD run the ROLB over pursued the play washing out Webster leading to the long run. Now I don't know if it was Boss or DJ but I kind of believe it was DJ.

[Atlas]

What is there to talk about that hasn't been discussed already. Cutler had an off day, injuries led to no WR's getting open due to playing scrubs. No pass rush since 1998, Safety play left something to be desired. ROLB on the MJD long td run overran the play and was washed out leading to the big run.

Cutler has had an off three weeks.

He isn't ready to become an elite QB.

He needs to stop staring down WRs.

[Atlas]

How could we not stop Garrard? No excuse. He made us his b****. Matt Jones was wide open. Bly was a joke.

Bly didn't play poorly. That is a bad matchup Bly is 5 10 and Jones is 6'5".

I'm having a problem with the scheme. Every play Bailey is down on the left. That one time the Wads set M.J.D. down there. So they had Bailey covering a RB takinghim out of the play and leaving mismatches all over the field.


MOVE BAILEY AROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is the best player on the defense. Line him up everywhere. Move him top to bottom to the slot, hell, even have him cover the TE once and awhile!! They need to become much less predictable of defense and get Bailey more involved.

Sadly outcoached.

If i was an opposing offense every obvious passing play I would send the RB to the left so Bailey would have to cover him thus freeing up all the other WRs.

[Atlas]

Good analysis. Sometimes it looks like DJ is trying to play all three positions.

Who is our LB coach? Six games into the season and it's the same mistakes over and over again.

I think getting better DEs is what Denver needs. They need DE that can stand at the point of attack. Get Crowder in there. He played well last year WTF is up with him being inactive? He is stouter and stronger than Moss, Dummerville, and Engle****ingberger. Let him play. Other than that I'm out of ideas.

[mr007]

One other thing I'd add is the play calling creativity. I know the first whatever amount of plays are scripted and it typically leads us to quick scores. Has anyone else noticed that the calls are much more generic as the game goes on?

[Peoples Champ]

We're spoiled. Most of us have been witness to one of the best running games in the history of the league and watched us win 2 SBs as a result of it. We see our team as it is today which is stronger at passing and while we run with some effectiveness, its set up by the pass. We drafted the best pass blocking LT, who has turned out to be awesome...possibly the best rookie this year...but he is better at pass protection. We also drafted a WR in the 2nd who also turned out to be even better than most expected. Basically, we loaded up to help Cutler by getting personnel to help in the passing game. If we had targeted the running game, that could have also helped Cutler and it would have been in line with the how we won SBs. But it goes back to the fact that we're a better passing team than running team and most of our running is set up by the pass. Having said that, Id love to draft Alex Mack next year if we're drafting in the 20s. I think he could give us a presence on the interior OLine that would help our running game. He really gets after it.


I love your theories, but I say draft all defense next year, especially with first couple picks