GOP Warning McCain About "Hate Filled" Rallies

[Rohirrim]

Even conservative advisor to Nixon, Ford and Reagan - David Gergen is speaking out:
"One of the most striking things we've seen in the last few day, we have seen it at the Palin rallies and we saw it at the McCain rally today," said David Gergen, appearing on Anderson Cooper 360 Thursday evening. "And we saw it to a considerable degree during the rescue package legislation. There is a free-floating sort of whipping-around anger that could really lead to some violence. And I think we're not far from that."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/former-mccain-strategist_n_133523.html

Former McCain supporter Frank Schaeffer, writing Friday in the Baltimore Sun, concurred:

John McCain: In 2000, as a lifelong Republican, I worked to get you elected instead of George W. Bush. In return, you wrote an endorsement of one of my books about military service. You seemed to be a man who put principle ahead of mere political gain.

You have changed. You have a choice: Go down in history as a decent senator and an honorable military man with many successes, or go down in history as the latest abettor of right-wing extremist hate.

[OrangeDoofus]

I guess this all depends on whether McCain really was once an honorable, principled man who's only recently sold out so he could get elected, or whether he's actually always been a selfish a-hole who just managed to fool a bunch of people for awhile.

Personally I don't think he has a conscience left in him to stop this kind of thing, but I'd be very happy to be proved wrong.

[Bob]

I guess this all depends on whether McCain really was once an honorable, principled man who's only recently sold out so he could get elected, or whether he's actually always been a selfish a-hole who just managed to fool a bunch of people for awhile.

Personally I don't think he has a conscience left in him to stop this kind of thing, but I'd be very happy to be proved wrong.

No, I think when Americans are pitted agaisnt each other constantly, and are alligned with party before country that rage is the result. If McCain wins we may see rioting, if Obama wins those on the right will brace for the worst, but we wont be lighting too many fires...

Civil disobediance taken too far, and mistrust of government that extends credence to the bizzare, that lends fuel and respectibility to nutty notions that the government is blowing up levies and buildings for example -- then yes, "chickens come home to roost" in the form of hatred, and eventual violence --toward fellow Americans, who may have a different political or religious slant.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

A seven-term Republican Congressman from Illinois is taking issue with fellow Republican Sarah Palin, saying some of the vice presidential candidate's rallies "don't befit the office she's running for." Republican Congressman Ray LaHood represents the 18th District: central and western Illinois, including Peoria. He's retiring in January. 10/11 (http://www.wbbm780.com/LaHood--Palin-Should-Stop-It/3115013)

The Lynch Mob Politics of McCain-Palin (http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/127)

McCain Camp Boasts of Its Lynch Mobs 10/12 (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/10/1529529.aspx)

[Rohirrim]

No, I think when Americans are pitted agaisnt each other constantly, and are alligned with party before country that rage is the result. If McCain wins we may see rioting, if Obama wins those on the right will brace for the worst, but we wont be lighting too many fires...

Civil disobediance taken too far, and mistrust of government that extends credence to the bizzare, that lends fuel and respectibility to nutty notions that the government is blowing up levies and buildings for example -- then yes, "chickens come home to roost" in the form of hatred, and eventual violence --toward fellow Americans, who may have a different political or religious slant.

You are a clown. Every story posted on here about McCain's unstable personality and his constant rage and what do you get from it? The Left is out of control. You see story after story detailing how the Right is losing control, screaming out epithets against Obama, screaming our racial slurs, turning into a mob, and what do take from it? The Left is out of control. Speaking of somebody deluded by their party's brainwash.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You are a clown. Every story posted on here about McCain's unstable personality and his constant rage and what do you get from it? The Left is out of control. You see story after story detailing how the Right is losing control, screaming out epithets against Obama, screaming our racial slurs, turning into a mob, and what do take from it? The Left is out of control. Speaking of somebody deluded by their party's brainwash.

Bob is a typical right-wing Kool-Aid drinker who lives in a weird world where reality and facts simply do not matter.

[Bob]

Bob is a typical right-wing Kool-Aid drinker who lives in a weird world where reality and facts simply do not matter.

I guess we will simply have to see what happens if McCain wins in November -- the polls "all say" he cant win (just like 2000 and 2004) and if he does I do suspect that there will be some rioting and destruction of property (I certainly hope not) but likewise if Obama wins, I doubt there will be any rioting, and the same level and anarchy -- the difference is that one group (at least adherents, not necessarily politicians) have greater respect for rule of law, greater tolerance of different views, and greater trust of the federal government.

This is where you can freak out LA -- you may be inclined to say "but look at this person, or that group" ... as examples of how the right are the real hate mongers -- but there is a big difference between not embracing all behavior as equal, and literally chucking rocks at those which whom one might ideologically disagree. You may have had a point to make in 1954, but the left statistically do not believe in God in as high numbers as do those left of center, perhaps that may be an additional reason why the left become a spiritual law on to themselves, as feel they can set their own rules.” Liberals lecture the right to be tolerant, but then have a visceral, hateful response to anyone who may have a less liberal view of the world. It does not seem intellectually consistent -- the liberal stance that” ANYTHING is ok view -- except those views which the left decrees as being old fashioned, or conspicuously Muslim.

[Bob]

Bob is a typical right-wing Kool-Aid drinker who lives in a weird world where reality and facts simply do not matter.

What I think is more typical is to lable, so that one can ideologically dismiss, without addressing real content or core issues.

[Bronco Bob]

I guess we will simply have to see what happens if McCain wins in November -- the polls "all say" he cant win (just like 2000 and 2004)

Sort of like how the polls said John Kerry couldn't win in 2004?
Oh, wait, John Kerry didn't win in 2004.

CBS News -10/9-11 Bush 3%
Newsweek 10/14-15 Bush 6%
Gallup 10/ 10/14-15 Bush 8%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry.html

[ScottXray]

I think that we are at a very dangerous point in our nations history.

The level of vehemence and anger that is happening at some rallies, and even in some of the threads here, is exactly the type of thing that leads to
civil wars, ethnic cleansing, and the breakdown of society in general. Both sides have been at least somewhat guilty in fostering this level of distrust.

When the two opposing sides of some issue cannot bring themselves to realise that there are all manner of shades of grey in all these discussions and that while their own position is "correct", yet the opposing view is at least also as much "correct" as their own, it leads to these Polarising positions.

Our own civil war was fought over such positions (States rights vs Union as unbreakable and central authority, and the slavery question), and the wounds of that war are still being nursed today, although the issues that caused it are not the cause of the lingering problems we still face, but the actions taken to win victory for one side, and the aftermath .

The RED state BLUE state dichotomy that the media has tried to portray and take advantage of has also been foisted on us. The real divide is more in tune with Rural Vs Urban positions, and Wealthy vs. Middle/low income classes and the differences in merit that both types accrue. The life style differences

Never the less, the people involved on both sides of the issues have valid points. It is the failure of the opposing sides to accept that a compromise position is possible, and probably necessary, that portends the path of destruction to both.

I was gratified to see McCain try to tone down the rhetoric in his recent campaign stops, but he stopped short of actually pulling the attack ads that foster the fear. Obama also has not toned his ads down.

The constant finger pointing and blame gamesmanship that has gone on discredits both.

Whichever side "wins" this election there may be enough people disaffected on either side that some very unfortunate events may occur. It will then be
a crux moment as to whether the division and hatred will lead to even further acts that put us on a road to destruction, or whether the nation can come to its senses and realise that BOTH sides have at tleast some level of "right"position.

[Bob]

I think that we are at a very dangerous point in our nations history.

The level of vehemence and anger that is happening at some rallies, and even in some of the threads here, is exactly the type of thing that leads to
civil wars, ethnic cleansing, and the breakdown of society in general. Both sides have been at least somewhat guilty in fostering this level of distrust.

When the two opposing sides of some issue cannot bring themselves to realise that there are all manner of shades of grey in all these discussions and that while their own position is "correct", yet the opposing view is at least also as much "correct" as their own, it leads to these Polarising positions.

Our own civil war was fought over such positions (States rights vs Union as unbreakable and central authority, and the slavery question), and the wounds of that war are still being nursed today, although the issues that caused it are not the cause of the lingering problems we still face, but the actions taken to win victory for one side, and the aftermath .

The RED state BLUE state dichotomy that the media has tried to portray and take advantage of has also been foisted on us. The real divide is more in tune with Rural Vs Urban positions, and Wealthy vs. Middle/low income classes and the differences in merit that both types accrue. The life style differences

Never the less, the people involved on both sides of the issues have valid points. It is the failure of the opposing sides to accept that a compromise position is possible, and probably necessary, that portends the path of destruction to both.

I was gratified to see McCain try to tone down the rhetoric in his recent campaign stops, but he stopped short of actually pulling the attack ads that foster the fear. Obama also has not toned his ads down.

The constant finger pointing and blame gamesmanship that has gone on discredits both.

Whichever side "wins" this election there may be enough people disaffected on either side that some very unfortunate events may occur. It will then be
a crux moment as to whether the division and hatred will lead to even further acts that put us on a road to destruction, or whether the nation can come to its senses and realise that BOTH sides have at tleast some level of "right"position.

good post, well spoken -- if Jesus ran for Office he would be turned into a Socialist by the other team, and if Lincoln were running he would be turned into a bigot. The radicals are the only ones with a voice (half of the time) as they are the only ones willing to take extreme measures to unsure their voice is heard, and the other's voice is taken away. The left hides behind tolerance, when they actually intend on stiffling free speech with the fairness doctrine when they get into office -- the right has done it too -- but culturally the left have the voice of the media right now, and are no longer prentending to be objective....

[frerottenextelway]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2939476582_7b1cf99e83.jpg

[SoCalBronco]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2939476582_7b1cf99e83.jpg

The only thing that bothers me about the sign is the reference to Muslims. Mr. Obama is clearly not a Muslim. Other than that, I have no problem with the sign.

[Rohirrim]

good post, well spoken -- if Jesus ran for Office he would be turned into a Socialist by the other team, and if Lincoln were running he would be turned into a bigot. The radicals are the only ones with a voice (half of the time) as they are the only ones willing to take extreme measures to unsure their voice is heard, and the other's voice is taken away. The left hides behind tolerance, when they actually intend on stiffling free speech with the fairness doctrine when they get into office -- the right has done it too -- but culturally the left have the voice of the media right now, and are no longer prentending to be objective....

You're so clueless it's a miracle you can breathe.

[Rohirrim]

I think that we are at a very dangerous point in our nations history.

The level of vehemence and anger that is happening at some rallies, and even in some of the threads here, is exactly the type of thing that leads to
civil wars, ethnic cleansing, and the breakdown of society in general. Both sides have been at least somewhat guilty in fostering this level of distrust.

When the two opposing sides of some issue cannot bring themselves to realise that there are all manner of shades of grey in all these discussions and that while their own position is "correct", yet the opposing view is at least also as much "correct" as their own, it leads to these Polarising positions.

Our own civil war was fought over such positions (States rights vs Union as unbreakable and central authority, and the slavery question), and the wounds of that war are still being nursed today, although the issues that caused it are not the cause of the lingering problems we still face, but the actions taken to win victory for one side, and the aftermath .

The RED state BLUE state dichotomy that the media has tried to portray and take advantage of has also been foisted on us. The real divide is more in tune with Rural Vs Urban positions, and Wealthy vs. Middle/low income classes and the differences in merit that both types accrue. The life style differences

Never the less, the people involved on both sides of the issues have valid points. It is the failure of the opposing sides to accept that a compromise position is possible, and probably necessary, that portends the path of destruction to both.

I was gratified to see McCain try to tone down the rhetoric in his recent campaign stops, but he stopped short of actually pulling the attack ads that foster the fear. Obama also has not toned his ads down.

The constant finger pointing and blame gamesmanship that has gone on discredits both.

Whichever side "wins" this election there may be enough people disaffected on either side that some very unfortunate events may occur. It will then be
a crux moment as to whether the division and hatred will lead to even further acts that put us on a road to destruction, or whether the nation can come to its senses and realise that BOTH sides have at tleast some level of "right"position.

Like Jefferson said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Don't fear conflict. We had to fight to throw off the rule of an English king. We may have to take up arms against those who would impose their religious fundamentalism or some other form of tyranny on us. Or maybe something new; Some form of corporate feudalism. The world seems convulsed right now by various forms of fundamentalism, at home and abroad. And there is really no cure for fundamentalism other than bullets. After all, when somebody starts telling you that God is instructing him to take control of your country and impose God's law as they see it, there can really be only one response.

[Paladin]

[QUOTE=Bob;2123853]I .....but likewise if Obama wins, I doubt there will be any rioting, and the same level and anarchy -- the difference is that one group (at least adherents, not necessarily politicians) have greater respect for rule of law, greater tolerance of different views, and greater trust of the federal government.

Just like Timothy McVeigh? Will we see the KKK in action again?

Not saying it will happen, but those freaks are getting dangerous, and you want to blame your nearly 50 year old illusion of what "liberal" and what the Center/left people are all about. You think of "liberal'" or the "left" as the Chicago protesters of those many years ago. Reagan brainwashed the h3ll out of this country, and many haven't recovered yet.

Some of us who were around those days did not agree with or liked what they did. But they had a point about a stupid war about which lies were being fed to Americans. The anger was real, and the fury was real.

Get real, guy. The potential for violence is rising and the Republicans are spewing BS that fuels it or condoning the crowds' threats and unsavory verbiage.

[Needa Pass Rush]

The loving left. Ha!


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[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/palin-rage-hate.jpg
</center>

[Paladin]

Like Jefferson said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Don't fear conflict. We had to fight to throw off the rule of an English king. We may have to take up arms against those who would impose their religious fundamentalism or some other form of tyranny on us. Or maybe something new; Some form of corporate feudalism. The world seems convulsed right now by various forms of fundamentalism, at home and abroad. And there is really no cure for fundamentalism other than bullets. After all, when somebody starts telling you that God is instructing him to take control of your country and impose God's law as they see it, there can really be only one response.

It is entirely possible that we have entered a different age. Some might call it socialism, but I call it survival, at least in the short term. I might prefer socialistic policies rather than Fascists ones. That would at least help to keep your mom and dad in their homes with health care and food. Don't think they are asking for much more, do you? Fascists would take them out back.....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/reject-mcCain-banner10-10-08x.JPG (http://rejectmccain.com/)

[Bronco Bob]

The left hides behind tolerance, when they actually intend on stiffling free speech with the fairness doctrine when they get into office --


This is an amazing bit of 1984 type doublespeak.
How exactly is letting both sides express their viewpoint
stifling free speech? So are you saying TJ is stifling
free speech on this board because he is letting both
the left wingers and right wingers post their
point of view?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It is entirely possible that we have entered a different age. Some might call it socialism, but I call it survival, at least in the short term. I might prefer socialistic policies rather than Fascists ones. That would at least help to keep your mom and dad in their homes with health care and food. Don't think they are asking for much more, do you? Fascists would take them out back.....

It's funny - if you accept the definition of "socialism" we hear from the Bush youth and contemporary right-wing straw man artists, Eisenhower was one of the greatest socialists of all time when you look at the tax rate on the top 5% during that era (and when you consider what those revenues were used for.)

[Paladin]

You have a point, but my point still stands.....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You have a point, but my point still stands.....

Yes it does. :thumbsup:

[Bronco Bob]

The loving left. Ha!


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Notice that not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out "Kill them".
Not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out these people were Muslims.
Not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out these people were traitors.
Not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out that any these people were the anti-christ.
Not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out these people were baby killers.
Yet the narrator flat out state that the people in the "liberal" crowd would
be more sympathetic to Islamic radicals than to these so-called American
"patriots".
Patriots? Hah, these were rabble rousers who got exactly the sort of
reaction they were looking for. These are the same sort of people as
those neo-Nazis that marched through a Jewish neighborhood just to
stir up s***.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Why Are McCain Backers So Angry?

From Republicans at political rallies to GOP lawmakers on TV talk shows, McCain-Palin supporters are angry, very angry – and they seem to think their anger justifies whatever they do: from calling Barack Obama a “terrorist” to shouting “kill him” and “off with his head” – to getting huffy when their violent rhetoric is challenged.

They’re even angrier now after Rep. John Lewis, D-Georgia, a veteran of the civil rights movement, chastised John McCain and Sarah Palin for whipping Republican crowds up into the kind of fury that can set the stage for murder.

Lewis, who marched and bled with Martin Luther King Jr., accused McCain and Palin of “sowing the seeds of hatred and division” in a way reminiscent of Alabama Gov. George Wallace, who rallied white anger against black civil rights advances in the 1960s.

“George Wallace never threw a bomb,” Lewis said Saturday. “He never fired a gun, but he created the climate and conditions that encouraged vicious attacks against innocent Americans who were simply trying to exercise their constitutional rights.”

While Lewis’s warning could have been an opportunity for McCain to reflect on the tone of his campaign, it became another excuse for him to get angry.

McCain – who has elicited some of the harsh crowd responses by asking ominously “who is the real Barack Obama?” – denounced Lewis’s statement as “a character attack against Governor Palin and me that is shocking and beyond the pale.”

Rather than apologize for his own recklessness – or, perhaps, pull a campaign ad that accuses Obama of lying about his association with a “terrorist,” former Vietnam War-era radical William Ayers – McCain demanded that Obama repudiate Lewis.

(Obama’s campaign responded by saying Lewis was right to condemn “hateful rhetoric” at the rallies but distancing itself from the Wallace comparison.)

After McCain’s angry retort to Lewis, mainstream TV talking heads began wringing their hands that Lewis had gone too far, noting that McCain – and even Palin – had pulled back a bit in the Obama-bashing on Friday, with McCain drawing boos himself when he offered a mild defense of Obama as “a decent family man.”

But the Republican counterattack against Lewis continued on Sunday as the McCain-Palin camp got riled up for the morning news shows.

Among the angry McCain-Palin surrogates was Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, who went on CBS’s “Face the Nation (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4516020n)” to deplore Lewis’s criticism as “an all-time low” and “an absolute offense to people like me.”

Graham added, “We’re not going to be intimidated by this playing the race card simply because Sen. Obama’s record has been attacked in a very fair way.”

The Real Victim

So, the Republican Party, which built its recent political dominance on what Richard Nixon called the “Southern Strategy” and which just held a national convention filled with mocking references to Obama as a “community organizer,” is the real victim here. Yet another reason to get angry.

Based on the reactions to Lewis’s statement, it appears the McCain-Palin campaign takes no responsibility for the latest shout-outs about killing Obama and sees no connection between Palin’s incendiary rhetoric that Obama “pals around with terrorists” and the violent anger that is bubbling out of right-wingers at the rallies.

The campaign slogan may be “Country First,” but the behavior often looks like “Country Be Damned.” There seems to be no concern about what would happen to the United States if the angry victimhood of the McCain-Palin crowd, mixed with suggestions that Obama is a closet terrorist, might encourage some nut to take a shot at Obama.

Or even if the nation dodges that bullet, what would happen if the McCain-Palin campaign whips up enough racial resentment toward Obama to wrest some tainted victory away on Nov. 4 – sure to include some predictable GOP vote tampering and voter intimidation? What kind of bitterly divided nation would they preside over in 2009?

As angry as the Republicans are – though they’ve held the White House for eight years and dominated the Congress from 1995 to 2007 – has anyone stopped to think that other Americans might get angry if it is perceived that the Republicans maintained their power through violence, racism or dirty tricks?

Do the Republicans expect a repeat of Election 2000 – when they overrode Al Gore’s victory in the national popular vote, dispatched rioters to Florida to disrupt the Miami recount and then had five Republican justices of the U.S. Supreme Court hand the White House to George W. Bush – while Democrats mostly sat by quietly?

Millions of Americans rue the day that Bush was ushered into the White House as they look out over a wasteland of national opportunities squandered.

Instead of a vibrant economy, plentiful jobs, a robust stock market, a swelling budget surplus, a nation at relative peace and world-wide admiration – they see an economy in shambles, massive job losses, a stock market in free-fall, record deficits, two open-ended wars and worldwide disdain.
If any group has a reason to be angry, it would be the plurality of Americans who voted for Al Gore and saw their collective judgment overturned by a partisan majority of the U.S. Supreme Court. [For details on how that happened, see our book, Neck Deep (http://www.neckdeepbook.com/).]

Votes Nullified

Many of those Americans not only had their vote effectively nullified – and their political judgment ignored – but they have suffered real economic damage. Some are out of work while others are opening statements on their retirement funds this month to find they have lost much of their life savings.

Yet, these Americans have been relatively restrained. They aren’t going to rallies and shouting death threats about the Republican ticket. Nor are Barack Obama and Joe Biden whipping up crowds with accusations that their opponents are disloyal.

No, the anger is disproportionately among the Republicans. McCain and Palin have turned their rallies – starting with the Republican National Convention through joint appearances this past week – into anti-Obama hate-fests, leading to taunts of “terrorist,” “socialist,” “traitor” – as well as racial epithets, the repeated invocation of his middle name “Hussein,” and suggestions on how to eliminate him.

The anger appears to be spilling over into events connected to other races. At a Georgia Senate debate on Thursday, Republican partisans in the crowd booed the mention of Obama’s name and a woman yelled out, “Bomb Obama,” the Associated Press reported (http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/101008/ele_342247649.shtml).

McCain and Palin have stoked these fires with the inflammatory McCarthyistic tactic of exploiting Obama’s tangential association with William Ayers, who four decades ago was part of a violent anti-Vietnam War group, the Weather Underground, but who has been living a constructive life since the mid-1970s as a college professor and expert on education policy.

Obama crossed paths with Ayers when the two were put on a board for the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a program for educational excellence launched by the staunchly Republican (and pro-McCain) Annenberg family.

Though Obama’s ties to Ayers appear to have been trivial (he also hosted a tea for Obama’s first state senate race), McCain and Palin have used what lawyers would call “prejudicial” evidence, playing up minor facts that are intended to inflame a jury.

In this case, the prejudicial quality is doubled by the fact that not only was Ayers a minor figure in Obama’s early political career but that Ayers’s violent behavior occurred a couple of decades earlier. Obama, who was eight at the time and living in Hawaii, has denounced Ayers’s involvement in anti-war bombings as “despicable.”

The Obama-Ayers guilt by association is almost as crazy as suggesting that Obama pals around with violent white racists because when Obama entered the U.S. Senate in 2005 he sought advice from Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia, who had been a member of the Ku Klux Klan as a young man.

McCain’s Connections

Similarly, one could go back through McCain’s connections to radical right-wing groups during the 1980s when he listed himself as a supporter of the U.S. Council for World Freedom, which was affiliated with the World Anti-Communist League, a haven for neo-Nazis, racialists and “death squad” operatives.

Or there’s Sarah Palin’s links to the Alaska Independence Party, a group whose leader has denounced the United States and advocated secession from the Union. Palin has spoken on behalf of the party, where her husband Todd was a member.

Indeed, those connections are more relevant than the Ayers’s guilt-by-association tag – since they involved direct actions by the principals, not what some other person did in an earlier phase of his life.

Nevertheless, the McCain-Palin ticket has seized on Ayers as a central argument against Obama, using highly inflammatory words like “terrorist” and “lie” in a current TV ad. The GOP campaign also has twisted an Obama comment about Afghan War strategy into a slur against American troops.
With this pattern, it is hard not to conclude that the McCain-Palin campaign is either willfully feeding red meat to its angry base as a political tactic or hoping to exacerbate doubts among white voters about an African-American candidate for President.

In either case, the American people might be more reasonably angry at John McCain and Sarah Palin for resorting to such ugly tactics and putting the nation at grave risk for their personal ambitions.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/

[Rohirrim]

I sometimes get the impression that the Right doesn't think the Left is armed. ;D

Hey, I passed twenty thousand posts at some point! Everybody look at me! Weird. I've got to get a hobby. What's that line from Annie Hall when Alvy Singer says it's all just mental masturbation? Annie: "Oh , well, now we're finally getting to a subject you know something about."

[Bronco X]

The only thing that bothers me about the sign is the reference to Muslims. Mr. Obama is clearly not a Muslim. Other than that, I have no problem with the sign.

So you believe 75% of Americans are baby murderers?

[Needa Pass Rush]

Why Are McCain Backers So Angry?



Why are Obama backers so angry?

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[OrangeDoofus]

Why are Obama backers so angry?
The sad thing is that McCain could probably improve his campaign by hiring you to run it.

[Odysseus]

What I think is more typical is to lable, so that one can ideologically dismiss, without addressing real content or core issues.

You don't even see any of the assumption you are making which is what makes any real discussion with you a waste of time.

[Needa Pass Rush]

Notice that not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out "Kill them".
Not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out these people were Muslims.
Not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out these people were traitors.
Not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out that any these people were the anti-christ.
Not one single person in the "liberal" crowd yelled out these people were baby killers.
Yet the narrator flat out state that the people in the "liberal" crowd would
be more sympathetic to Islamic radicals than to these so-called American
"patriots".
Patriots? Hah, these were rabble rousers who got exactly the sort of
reaction they were looking for. These are the same sort of people as
those neo-Nazis that marched through a Jewish neighborhood just to
stir up s***.


A small parade supporting one of the national candidates is stirring **** up? I noticed significant lashing in and no lashing out. Pass the blunt, Bobby.

[Bob]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2939476582_7b1cf99e83.jpg

Someone check to see if this guy is working for the Dem party....

I have gotten cynical about who is actually expressing their views, and who is pretending to reinforce near non-exsistant, but steriotypical views, of what the left believes the right believes. I am surprised they didnt tell the operative to wear a confederate flag t-shirt.

The vast majority that dont want Obama in office have concerns about his policies, or his experience, not his color, or falsly thinking he is a Muslim in hiding. Those that claim this is the "real reason" those oppose him, are adding more fuel to the fire.

[Bob]

You're so clueless it's a miracle you can breathe.


You are making my point -- it doesnt matter how great the charicter is of anyone the left puts foward, or the right -- the other side for power only will dredge up real crap, or make up stuff in order to retain power. I am sorry if you are so connected to your party to no longer see any good in someone on the other side of the ideological fence.

I hope that I am cluless, but I think that the fairness doctrine will be high on the list -- to shut those up that disagree with them. The Repubs will likely go allong as well -- as right wing radio has called them out too much lately, including McCain.

[Bob]

This is an amazing bit of 1984 type doublespeak.
How exactly is letting both sides express their viewpoint
stifling free speech? So are you saying TJ is stifling
free speech on this board because he is letting both
the left wingers and right wingers post their
point of view?

Well, I guess if NPR, CBS, ABC, CNN, NBC, MSN put folks that are as far right, as are the vast majority of those in media are far left then I think I woudl love the "fairness doctrine." The reason why far left radio have not taken off yet, is that their is too much compitition from the before mentioned news stations.

[Traveler]

Someone again yelled "kill him" at a Palin rally today.

[TailgateNut]

A small parade supporting one of the national candidates is stirring **** up? I noticed significant lashing in and no lashing out. Pass the blunt, Bobby.


It's not the small parade, it's the whole mindset of the republican party now that they've realized the fugged up with their nomination and the **** is going downhill faster than a waxed ski on a black diamond run on the sunny side of the hill.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The sad thing is that McCain could probably improve his campaign by hiring you to run it.

QFT.

How sad is that? :giggle:

[OrangeDoofus]

I am sorry if you are so connected to your party to no longer see any good in someone on the other side of the ideological fence.
You're the same guy who said liberals have no sense of right and wrong because they don't believe in God, right?

[frerottenextelway]

Someone check to see if this guy is working for the Dem party....

I have gotten cynical about who is actually expressing their views, and who is pretending to reinforce near non-exsistant, but steriotypical views, of what the left believes the right believes. I am surprised they didnt tell the operative to wear a confederate flag t-shirt.

The vast majority that dont want Obama in office have concerns about his policies, or his experience, not his color, or falsly thinking he is a Muslim in hiding. Those that claim this is the "real reason" those oppose him, are adding more fuel to the fire.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=72773

Whatever. It's happening right on this very message board.

[Spider]

Someone check to see if this guy is working for the Dem party....

I have gotten cynical about who is actually expressing their views, and who is pretending to reinforce near non-exsistant, but steriotypical views, of what the left believes the right believes. I am surprised they didnt tell the operative to wear a confederate flag t-shirt.

The vast majority that dont want Obama in office have concerns about his policies, or his experience, not his color, or falsly thinking he is a Muslim in hiding. Those that claim this is the "real reason" those oppose him, are adding more fuel to the fire.

What in the hell are you babbling about ? I just got out of Ohio .. believe me , that guy fits right in , hell I had a run in myself in Youngstown ....... Majority of those people are certifiable bat sh!t crazy

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Someone again yelled "kill him" at a Palin rally today.

:oyvey:

Further proof that these Jim Crow knuckle draggers on the far right haven't evolved one bit since the days of MLK.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/reject-mcCain-banner10-10-08x.JPG (http://rejectmccain.com/)

[Bob]

Like Jefferson said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Don't fear conflict. We had to fight to throw off the rule of an English king. We may have to take up arms against those who would impose their religious fundamentalism or some other form of tyranny on us. Or maybe something new; Some form of corporate feudalism. The world seems convulsed right now by various forms of fundamentalism, at home and abroad. And there is really no cure for fundamentalism other than bullets. After all, when somebody starts telling you that God is instructing him to take control of your country and impose God's law as they see it, there can really be only one response.

Again you make my point -- am I allowed in your world to teach my kids as I would like, and go to church? How far are you willing to take this? This is one of the more radical posts I have ever seen here in terms of its implications. For now we do have freedom OF religion. Define what you mean by "impose." Does that mean if I express my views openly and attempt to influence others with my voice or money that i am imposing? What happens if a Repub gets elected and gets some conservative judges in the surpreme court, and Roe VS Wade is overturned? Do you turn to bullets, or do you get out the vote as I woudl attempt to do. Or does it mean if someone attempts to put my wife in a Berka, I am allowed to standup for my ideological agency?

[Bob]

http://www.bartcop.com/reject-mcCain-banner10-10-08x.JPG (http://rejectmccain.com/)

Please provide some clear examples...so Wright did not amplify hate? I dont think that McCain is a saint, but what are your thoughts on this -- not cut and paste jobs please. What about William A, blowing up buildings, and Obama launching his political career at this radical's home?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Please provide some clear examples...

Wow - you really have been living in a cave this campaign season.

From this thread:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2124581&postcount=26

[Bob]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/palin-rage-hate.jpg
</center>

Again, I think it is more likely that many of these idiots are plants -- it would be effective. McCain has cut Obama far many breaks by not calling him out on his connections...heaven knows that Hilary made that mistake as well, and only too late did she start to connect the radical Socialist dots.

[Bob]

Wow - you really have been living in a cave this campaign season.

From this thread:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2124581&postcount=26

Thanks for the link, just trying seperate fact from fiction, whcih as this draws near is harder for me to do -- the radios get turned up full blast by both sides, but clarity and honesty are in short supply.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Again, I think it is more likely that many of these idiots are plants -- it would be effective.

Now look who's wearing the tin foil hat. LOL


McCain has cut Obama far many breaks by not calling him out on his connections...

What "connections" would those be?

Ayers?

You are aware that McCain is receiving campaign $$$ from the same conservative donors who gave Ayers a $49M grant and appointed him to the board that hired Obama, right?

In any event, Gramps isn't cutting anyone any "breaks" - he knows that playing the guilt by association game will blow up in his face.

[Bob]

Why Are McCain Backers So Angry?

From Republicans at political rallies to GOP lawmakers on TV talk shows, McCain-Palin supporters are angry, very angry – and they seem to think their anger justifies whatever they do: from calling Barack Obama a “terrorist” to shouting “kill him” and “off with his head” – to getting huffy when their violent rhetoric is challenged.

They’re even angrier now after Rep. John Lewis, D-Georgia, a veteran of the civil rights movement, chastised John McCain and Sarah Palin for whipping Republican crowds up into the kind of fury that can set the stage for murder.

Lewis, who marched and bled with Martin Luther King Jr., accused McCain and Palin of “sowing the seeds of hatred and division” in a way reminiscent of Alabama Gov. George Wallace, who rallied white anger against black civil rights advances in the 1960s.

“George Wallace never threw a bomb,” Lewis said Saturday. “He never fired a gun, but he created the climate and conditions that encouraged vicious attacks against innocent Americans who were simply trying to exercise their constitutional rights.”

While Lewis’s warning could have been an opportunity for McCain to reflect on the tone of his campaign, it became another excuse for him to get angry.

McCain – who has elicited some of the harsh crowd responses by asking ominously “who is the real Barack Obama?” – denounced Lewis’s statement as “a character attack against Governor Palin and me that is shocking and beyond the pale.”

Rather than apologize for his own recklessness – or, perhaps, pull a campaign ad that accuses Obama of lying about his association with a “terrorist,” former Vietnam War-era radical William Ayers – McCain demanded that Obama repudiate Lewis.

(Obama’s campaign responded by saying Lewis was right to condemn “hateful rhetoric” at the rallies but distancing itself from the Wallace comparison.)

After McCain’s angry retort to Lewis, mainstream TV talking heads began wringing their hands that Lewis had gone too far, noting that McCain – and even Palin – had pulled back a bit in the Obama-bashing on Friday, with McCain drawing boos himself when he offered a mild defense of Obama as “a decent family man.”

But the Republican counterattack against Lewis continued on Sunday as the McCain-Palin camp got riled up for the morning news shows.

Among the angry McCain-Palin surrogates was Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, who went on CBS’s “Face the Nation (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4516020n)” to deplore Lewis’s criticism as “an all-time low” and “an absolute offense to people like me.”

Graham added, “We’re not going to be intimidated by this playing the race card simply because Sen. Obama’s record has been attacked in a very fair way.”

The Real Victim

So, the Republican Party, which built its recent political dominance on what Richard Nixon called the “Southern Strategy” and which just held a national convention filled with mocking references to Obama as a “community organizer,” is the real victim here. Yet another reason to get angry.

Based on the reactions to Lewis’s statement, it appears the McCain-Palin campaign takes no responsibility for the latest shout-outs about killing Obama and sees no connection between Palin’s incendiary rhetoric that Obama “pals around with terrorists” and the violent anger that is bubbling out of right-wingers at the rallies.

The campaign slogan may be “Country First,” but the behavior often looks like “Country Be Damned.” There seems to be no concern about what would happen to the United States if the angry victimhood of the McCain-Palin crowd, mixed with suggestions that Obama is a closet terrorist, might encourage some nut to take a shot at Obama.

Or even if the nation dodges that bullet, what would happen if the McCain-Palin campaign whips up enough racial resentment toward Obama to wrest some tainted victory away on Nov. 4 – sure to include some predictable GOP vote tampering and voter intimidation? What kind of bitterly divided nation would they preside over in 2009?

As angry as the Republicans are – though they’ve held the White House for eight years and dominated the Congress from 1995 to 2007 – has anyone stopped to think that other Americans might get angry if it is perceived that the Republicans maintained their power through violence, racism or dirty tricks?

Do the Republicans expect a repeat of Election 2000 – when they overrode Al Gore’s victory in the national popular vote, dispatched rioters to Florida to disrupt the Miami recount and then had five Republican justices of the U.S. Supreme Court hand the White House to George W. Bush – while Democrats mostly sat by quietly?

Millions of Americans rue the day that Bush was ushered into the White House as they look out over a wasteland of national opportunities squandered.

Instead of a vibrant economy, plentiful jobs, a robust stock market, a swelling budget surplus, a nation at relative peace and world-wide admiration – they see an economy in shambles, massive job losses, a stock market in free-fall, record deficits, two open-ended wars and worldwide disdain.
If any group has a reason to be angry, it would be the plurality of Americans who voted for Al Gore and saw their collective judgment overturned by a partisan majority of the U.S. Supreme Court. [For details on how that happened, see our book, Neck Deep (http://www.neckdeepbook.com/).]

Votes Nullified

Many of those Americans not only had their vote effectively nullified – and their political judgment ignored – but they have suffered real economic damage. Some are out of work while others are opening statements on their retirement funds this month to find they have lost much of their life savings.

Yet, these Americans have been relatively restrained. They aren’t going to rallies and shouting death threats about the Republican ticket. Nor are Barack Obama and Joe Biden whipping up crowds with accusations that their opponents are disloyal.

No, the anger is disproportionately among the Republicans. McCain and Palin have turned their rallies – starting with the Republican National Convention through joint appearances this past week – into anti-Obama hate-fests, leading to taunts of “terrorist,” “socialist,” “traitor” – as well as racial epithets, the repeated invocation of his middle name “Hussein,” and suggestions on how to eliminate him.

The anger appears to be spilling over into events connected to other races. At a Georgia Senate debate on Thursday, Republican partisans in the crowd booed the mention of Obama’s name and a woman yelled out, “Bomb Obama,” the Associated Press reported (http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/101008/ele_342247649.shtml).

McCain and Palin have stoked these fires with the inflammatory McCarthyistic tactic of exploiting Obama’s tangential association with William Ayers, who four decades ago was part of a violent anti-Vietnam War group, the Weather Underground, but who has been living a constructive life since the mid-1970s as a college professor and expert on education policy.

Obama crossed paths with Ayers when the two were put on a board for the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a program for educational excellence launched by the staunchly Republican (and pro-McCain) Annenberg family.

Though Obama’s ties to Ayers appear to have been trivial (he also hosted a tea for Obama’s first state senate race), McCain and Palin have used what lawyers would call “prejudicial” evidence, playing up minor facts that are intended to inflame a jury.

In this case, the prejudicial quality is doubled by the fact that not only was Ayers a minor figure in Obama’s early political career but that Ayers’s violent behavior occurred a couple of decades earlier. Obama, who was eight at the time and living in Hawaii, has denounced Ayers’s involvement in anti-war bombings as “despicable.”

The Obama-Ayers guilt by association is almost as crazy as suggesting that Obama pals around with violent white racists because when Obama entered the U.S. Senate in 2005 he sought advice from Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia, who had been a member of the Ku Klux Klan as a young man.

McCain’s Connections

Similarly, one could go back through McCain’s connections to radical right-wing groups during the 1980s when he listed himself as a supporter of the U.S. Council for World Freedom, which was affiliated with the World Anti-Communist League, a haven for neo-Nazis, racialists and “death squad” operatives.

Or there’s Sarah Palin’s links to the Alaska Independence Party, a group whose leader has denounced the United States and advocated secession from the Union. Palin has spoken on behalf of the party, where her husband Todd was a member.

Indeed, those connections are more relevant than the Ayers’s guilt-by-association tag – since they involved direct actions by the principals, not what some other person did in an earlier phase of his life.

Nevertheless, the McCain-Palin ticket has seized on Ayers as a central argument against Obama, using highly inflammatory words like “terrorist” and “lie” in a current TV ad. The GOP campaign also has twisted an Obama comment about Afghan War strategy into a slur against American troops.
With this pattern, it is hard not to conclude that the McCain-Palin campaign is either willfully feeding red meat to its angry base as a political tactic or hoping to exacerbate doubts among white voters about an African-American candidate for President.

In either case, the American people might be more reasonably angry at John McCain and Sarah Palin for resorting to such ugly tactics and putting the nation at grave risk for their personal ambitions.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/

This is crap -- McCain is more a Dem than a conservative. The race card is being played harder by the Dems in my mind. If Obama does not get elected it will be because of policies and his lack of experience. Now, if he does not get elected and the media, and his campain has been able to create the false impression that the only reason why folks could vote against the Messiah is becuase of racism, then the chances that riots will result are amplified. Lets pray that the false impression is not manufactured for political gain, as mistrust is the real byproduct.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This is crap -- McCain is more a Dem than a conservative. The race card is being played harder by the Dems in my mind. If Obama does not get elected it will be because of policies and his lack of experience. Now, if he does not get elected and the media, and his campain has been able to create the false impression that the only reason why folks could vote against the Messiah is becuase of racism, then the chances that riots will result are amplified. Lets pray that the false impression is not manufactured for political gain, as mistrust is the real byproduct.

:crazy:

You just make it up as you go along, huh?

[Bob]

You're the same guy who said liberals have no sense of right and wrong because they don't believe in God, right?

Is it ok for me to speak my mind, or will the loving left freak out? Here it goes -- get out your bullets (until Obama takes them away that is.)

Morality without God does present additional problems for a greater percentage of average folks -- yes. It is my conviction that for folks who believe in a loving God that it does push them for greater love of others, and a greater realization of personal weakness, and sometimes more humility. Can people be moral without a belief in God -- there are many examples – sure. Should I enforce my belief on others no – but do I have the right to share my convictions with anyone who is willing to listen – yup, that is a right that is protected under the Constitution. Can there be immoral folks who hold various God constructs -- obviously. I would contend that religious folks who hurt and destroy have created something that is more political than Godly.

Where do Christians develop the majority of their views on morality? I would assume that culture would have a role, but also the stories in the NT. Remember the Amish folks a few years back – a nut job comes in and shoots several children – they were able to show love to the parents of that crazed man. If one is a Buddhist, or Muslim, or another faith, culture does have a role (and sadly pop culture in too many cases) but also the holy books they use daily.

Where do Liberals go for guidance on issues of Morality? You guys I am sure will have your various ideas, and will be as varied as there are those who describe their core moral constructs, but if no final moral authority exists, than one is more prone to act like the advanced animal he has been taught to think of himself. If the election does not work out for the left, and McCain gets elected and the evil Palin woman gets in, are you more inclined to turn to bullets -- as some highly moral folks have hinted to here? Despite the partisan talk of right wing hatred here – the right will not go out and protest if we loose.

Call it opium if you want, but fear of God only motivates idiots, and there many, many idiots – on both sides that could use some opium right now and remember that we are Americans first. In New Orleans when the fear of “getting caught” was lost, there was not enough conviction of a higher power to keep folks from acting like the advanced animals they obviously believed that they were...

Love of God and others is way better than fear, and I hope that more Americans can reach toward that eventual goal.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/tom-too-stupid.jpg
</center>

[Bob]

What in the hell are you babbling about ? I just got out of Ohio .. believe me , that guy fits right in , hell I had a run in myself in Youngstown ....... Majority of those people are certifiable bat sh!t crazy

If true, he is probably too stupid to figure out how to use the bus route to get to the polling station. Remember Spider it is not nice to hit those with devlopmental disabilities, in the throat or other places -- good luck out there.

[Rohirrim]

Is it ok for me to speak my mind, or will the loving left freak out? Here it goes -- get out your bullets (until Obama takes them away that is.)

Morality without God does present additional problems for a greater percentage of average folks -- yes. It is my conviction that for folks who believe in a loving God that it does push them for greater love of others, and a greater realization of personal weakness, and sometimes more humility. Can people be moral without a belief in God -- there are many examples – sure. Should I enforce my belief on others no – but do I have the right to share my convictions with anyone who is willing to listen – yup, that is a right that is protected under the Constitution. Can there be immoral folks who hold various God constructs -- obviously. I would contend that religious folks who hurt and destroy have created something that is more political than Godly.

Where do Christians develop the majority of their views on morality? I would assume that culture would have a role, but also the stories in the NT. Remember the Amish folks a few years back – a nut job comes in and shoots several children – they were able to show love to the parents of that crazed man. If one is a Buddhist, or Muslim, or another faith, culture does have a role (and sadly pop culture in too many cases) but also the holy books they use daily.

Where do Liberals go for guidance on issues of Morality? You guys I am sure will have your various ideas, and will be as varied as there are those who describe their core moral constructs, but if no final moral authority exists, than one is more prone to act like the advanced animal he has been taught to think of himself. If the election does not work out for the left, and McCain gets elected and the evil Palin woman gets in, are you more inclined to turn to bullets -- as some highly moral folks have hinted to here? Despite the partisan talk of right wing hatred here – the right will not go out and protest if we loose.

Call it opium if you want, but fear of God only motivates idiots, and there many, many idiots – on both sides that could use some opium right now and remember that we are Americans first. In New Orleans when the fear of “getting caught” was lost, there was not enough conviction of a higher power to keep folks from acting like the advanced animals they obviously believed that they were...

Love of God and others is way better than fear, and I hope that more Americans can reach toward that eventual goal.

All I have to hear is the response your Christian goddess is getting at her rallies: KILL HIM!

Of course, given the long, illustrious history of your "god," that's really not out of line. The Christian god has been killing for a very long time.

[Bob]

All I have to hear is the response your Christian goddess is getting at her rallies: KILL HIM!

Of course, given the long, illustrious history of your "god," that's really not out of line. The Christian god has been killing for a very long time.

The construct of political gods kill -- yup. I assume that you may be in the camp that has only seen that version shown by those who profess faith?

Sorry thats been your experience.

Oh, and I wonder how much Code Pink is paying the "Kill Him" plant/idiot?

[Rohirrim]

The construct of political gods kill -- yup. I assume that you may be in the camp that has only seen that version shown by those who profess faith?

Sorry thats been your experience.

Oh, and I wonder how much Code Pink is paying the "Kill Him" plant/idiot?

??? Each of your posts outdoes the previous one in sheer senselessness.

As far as your Code Pink idiocy. Besides the fact that I have no idea what you are talking about, the Secret Service picked up the first guy so I'm guessing the three since then have been new, not to mention the ones shouting "Traitor" and "Terrorist."

The truth is you are in denial. It is only the Right engaging in this hatred, vehemence, racism and fomenting of violence. I'm sure the Secret Service protecting Obama are on heightened alert knowing that some whacked out Christian racist fundamentalist would love to take him out.

[OrangeDoofus]

Is it ok for me to speak my mind, or will the loving left freak out? Here it goes -- get out your bullets (until Obama takes them away that is.)
You're welcome to speak your mind. The trouble you seem to have is dealing with others speaking back.

[Bronco Bob]

You're welcome to speak your mind. The trouble you seem to have is dealing with others speaking back.

Of course, he is a guy that is adamantly opposed the the Fairness Doctrine.
So that shouldn't seem surprising.

[Odysseus]

Again, I think it is more likely that many of these idiots are plants -- it would be effective. McCain has cut Obama far many breaks by not calling him out on his connections...heaven knows that Hilary made that mistake as well, and only too late did she start to connect the radical Socialist dots.

These statements are coming from people I personally know. If you do a search around the Internet you will see plenty of Anti Obama hatred. It's pretty disappointing to realize that our country can still be so poisoned.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Please provide some clear examples...

Palin Whips the Base into a Frenzy

The decision to pick an unknown evangelical governor as John McCain's running mate has succeeded beyond Steve Schmidt's wildest dreams. Way beyond. Sarah Palin has perfect aim when throwing red meat to partisan crowds and whipping them into a frenzy to the point when people at rallies yell: "terrorist" and "kill him" about Obama. Then Palin can conveniently say she did not say that but the point is made anyway. Of course when this happens she could say: "Somebody grab that guy and drag him out of here. I don't want people like that at my rallies" but she never does. She winks and basks. The trouble for Palin and now McCain is that this frenzy has been widely reported and condemned and it is turning off crucial independent voters in droves. The featured commentary (http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/misc/blog/?initialBlogId=keiser_1) at intrade.com (http://www.intrade.com/) is about Palin, saying: "Rove's creation has turned into a mob baying for blood." Even leading conservative columnists don't like this. Kathleen Parker has called for her to drop off the ticket (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-092608-kathleen-parker-column-link,0,889134.column). The bettors agree that Rove III is not working. Ten shares of McCain stock cost $23 this morning. This means that if you are absolutely convinced McCain will win, you can invest, say, $23,000 now and collect $100,000 in 3 weeks if McCain wins.


The consequence of this whole campaign could be far reaching. If Obama wins and the exit polls show independents voted overwhelmingly for him, the pundits are going to lay the blame at Palin's high heels and advise the GOP to forget the evangelicals and run candidates with financial expertise (like Mitt Romney) in the future. Needless to say, the evangelicals, who finally got one of their own on the ticket, won't take this well and the ensuing battle will tear the Republican Party to bits.

[Broncosfreak_56]

Is it ok for me to speak my mind, or will the loving left freak out? Here it goes -- get out your bullets (until Obama takes them away that is.)

Morality without God does present additional problems for a greater percentage of average folks -- yes. It is my conviction that for folks who believe in a loving God that it does push them for greater love of others, and a greater realization of personal weakness, and sometimes more humility. Can people be moral without a belief in God -- there are many examples – sure. Should I enforce my belief on others no – but do I have the right to share my convictions with anyone who is willing to listen – yup, that is a right that is protected under the Constitution. Can there be immoral folks who hold various God constructs -- obviously. I would contend that religious folks who hurt and destroy have created something that is more political than Godly.

Where do Christians develop the majority of their views on morality? I would assume that culture would have a role, but also the stories in the NT. Remember the Amish folks a few years back – a nut job comes in and shoots several children – they were able to show love to the parents of that crazed man. If one is a Buddhist, or Muslim, or another faith, culture does have a role (and sadly pop culture in too many cases) but also the holy books they use daily.

Where do Liberals go for guidance on issues of Morality? You guys I am sure will have your various ideas, and will be as varied as there are those who describe their core moral constructs, but if no final moral authority exists, than one is more prone to act like the advanced animal he has been taught to think of himself. If the election does not work out for the left, and McCain gets elected and the evil Palin woman gets in, are you more inclined to turn to bullets -- as some highly moral folks have hinted to here? Despite the partisan talk of right wing hatred here – the right will not go out and protest if we loose.

Call it opium if you want, but fear of God only motivates idiots, and there many, many idiots – on both sides that could use some opium right now and remember that we are Americans first. In New Orleans when the fear of “getting caught” was lost, there was not enough conviction of a higher power to keep folks from acting like the advanced animals they obviously believed that they were...

Love of God and others is way better than fear, and I hope that more Americans can reach toward that eventual goal.

That is laughable.

1. The Bible if full of death and horrible things happening to people. Like god letting the devil take everything away from a man, killing his family and stealing all his possessions just to test his faithfullness. What bull****. And God drowning out everyone on the earth with a flood. Just two of countless examples.

2. Looking back in history, and even today, more people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else. The Crusades come to mind. I don't want some religious nut job that believes humans rode dinosaurs 4,000 years ago to be one death away from presidency.

[BroncoInferno]

Is it ok for me to speak my mind, or will the loving left freak out? Here it goes -- get out your bullets (until Obama takes them away that is.)

Morality without God does present additional problems for a greater percentage of average folks -- yes. It is my conviction that for folks who believe in a loving God that it does push them for greater love of others, and a greater realization of personal weakness, and sometimes more humility. Can people be moral without a belief in God -- there are many examples – sure. Should I enforce my belief on others no – but do I have the right to share my convictions with anyone who is willing to listen – yup, that is a right that is protected under the Constitution. Can there be immoral folks who hold various God constructs -- obviously. I would contend that religious folks who hurt and destroy have created something that is more political than Godly.

Where do Christians develop the majority of their views on morality? I would assume that culture would have a role, but also the stories in the NT. Remember the Amish folks a few years back – a nut job comes in and shoots several children – they were able to show love to the parents of that crazed man. If one is a Buddhist, or Muslim, or another faith, culture does have a role (and sadly pop culture in too many cases) but also the holy books they use daily.

Where do Liberals go for guidance on issues of Morality? You guys I am sure will have your various ideas, and will be as varied as there are those who describe their core moral constructs, but if no final moral authority exists, than one is more prone to act like the advanced animal he has been taught to think of himself. If the election does not work out for the left, and McCain gets elected and the evil Palin woman gets in, are you more inclined to turn to bullets -- as some highly moral folks have hinted to here? Despite the partisan talk of right wing hatred here – the right will not go out and protest if we loose.

Call it opium if you want, but fear of God only motivates idiots, and there imany, many idiots – on both sides that could use some opium right now and remember that we are Americans first. In New Orleans when the fear of “getting caught” was lost, there was not enough conviction of a higher power to keep folks from acting like the advanced animals they obviously believed that they were...

Love of God and others is way better than fear, and I hope that more Americans can reach toward that eventual goal.

Dead wrong. Morality is FACTUALLY enhanced by disbelief in god, because the god represented in the Bible is an evil, meglomanical, murdering racist (ask the Hittites). Any honest reading of the Bible or Book of Mormon supports that factual view.

[alkemical]

Do these "hate filled" rallies have protesters who even exist? ;) Does this "hate" even exist? ;)

[TailgateNut]

Is it ok for me to speak my mind, or will the loving left freak out? Here it goes -- get out your bullets (until Obama takes them away that is.)

Morality without God does present additional problems for a greater percentage of average folks -- yes. It is my conviction that for folks who believe in a loving God that it does push them for greater love of others, and a greater realization of personal weakness, and sometimes more humility. Can people be moral without a belief in God -- there are many examples – sure. Should I enforce my belief on others no – but do I have the right to share my convictions with anyone who is willing to listen – yup, that is a right that is protected under the Constitution. Can there be immoral folks who hold various God constructs -- obviously. I would contend that religious folks who hurt and destroy have created something that is more political than Godly.

Where do Christians develop the majority of their views on morality? I would assume that culture would have a role, but also the stories in the NT. Remember the Amish folks a few years back – a nut job comes in and shoots several children – they were able to show love to the parents of that crazed man. If one is a Buddhist, or Muslim, or another faith, culture does have a role (and sadly pop culture in too many cases) but also the holy books they use daily.

Where do Liberals go for guidance on issues of Morality? You guys I am sure will have your various ideas, and will be as varied as there are those who describe their core moral constructs, but if no final moral authority exists, than one is more prone to act like the advanced animal he has been taught to think of himself. If the election does not work out for the left, and McCain gets elected and the evil Palin woman gets in, are you more inclined to turn to bullets -- as some highly moral folks have hinted to here? Despite the partisan talk of right wing hatred here – the right will not go out and protest if we loose.

Call it opium if you want, but fear of God only motivates idiots, and there many, many idiots – on both sides that could use some opium right now and remember that we are Americans first. In New Orleans when the fear of “getting caught” was lost, there was not enough conviction of a higher power to keep folks from acting like the advanced animals they obviously believed that they were...

Love of God and others is way better than fear, and I hope that more Americans can reach toward that eventual goal.

AAH, the better than thou attitude is revealed. You religious nuts think only you can have morals. Little minds need to be led!

[TailgateNut]

All I have to hear is the response your Christian goddess is getting at her rallies: KILL HIM!

Of course, given the long, illustrious history of your "god," that's really not out of line. The Christian god has been killing for a very long time.


The religious morals are permeating from their callous skin.

[alkemical]

??? Each of your posts outdoes the previous one in sheer senselessness.

As far as your Code Pink idiocy. Besides the fact that I have no idea what you are talking about, the Secret Service picked up the first guy so I'm guessing the three since then have been new, not to mention the ones shouting "Traitor" and "Terrorist."

The truth is you are in denial. It is only the Right engaging in this hatred, vehemence, racism and fomenting of violence. I'm sure the Secret Service protecting Obama are on heightened alert knowing that some whacked out Christian racist fundamentalist would love to take him out.

With the...issues of campaign offices having 'attacks' or escalated 'incidents' - i feel like....we are one event away from a worst case scenario

[alkemical]

All I have to hear is the response your Christian goddess is getting at her rallies: KILL HIM!

Of course, given the long, illustrious history of your "god," that's really not out of line. The Christian god has been killing for a very long time.

The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization.
Robert Anton Wilson


The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.
Robert Anton Wilson

[alkemical]

Is it ok for me to speak my mind, or will the loving left freak out? Here it goes -- get out your bullets (until Obama takes them away that is.)

Morality without God does present additional problems for a greater percentage of average folks -- yes. It is my conviction that for folks who believe in a loving God that it does push them for greater love of others, and a greater realization of personal weakness, and sometimes more humility. Can people be moral without a belief in God -- there are many examples – sure. Should I enforce my belief on others no – but do I have the right to share my convictions with anyone who is willing to listen – yup, that is a right that is protected under the Constitution. Can there be immoral folks who hold various God constructs -- obviously. I would contend that religious folks who hurt and destroy have created something that is more political than Godly.

Where do Christians develop the majority of their views on morality? I would assume that culture would have a role, but also the stories in the NT. Remember the Amish folks a few years back – a nut job comes in and shoots several children – they were able to show love to the parents of that crazed man. If one is a Buddhist, or Muslim, or another faith, culture does have a role (and sadly pop culture in too many cases) but also the holy books they use daily.

Where do Liberals go for guidance on issues of Morality? You guys I am sure will have your various ideas, and will be as varied as there are those who describe their core moral constructs, but if no final moral authority exists, than one is more prone to act like the advanced animal he has been taught to think of himself. If the election does not work out for the left, and McCain gets elected and the evil Palin woman gets in, are you more inclined to turn to bullets -- as some highly moral folks have hinted to here? Despite the partisan talk of right wing hatred here – the right will not go out and protest if we loose.

Call it opium if you want, but fear of God only motivates idiots, and there many, many idiots – on both sides that could use some opium right now and remember that we are Americans first. In New Orleans when the fear of “getting caught” was lost, there was not enough conviction of a higher power to keep folks from acting like the advanced animals they obviously believed that they were...

Love of God and others is way better than fear, and I hope that more Americans can reach toward that eventual goal.


First off:

A loving god? One who wants you to mutilate yourself to be like him, to be closer to him?

That's only one instance.

Morality is separate from "god". Society sets taboos, morals, etc - Ordinary morality is for ordinary people.

[Rohirrim]

Morality is a product of consciousness.

Sin is a product of god.

[Spider]

If true, he is probably too stupid to figure out how to use the bus route to get to the polling station. Remember Spider it is not nice to hit those with devlopmental disabilities, in the throat or other places -- good luck out there.

;D I didnt hit him , if I had thought it would have done some good I would have cold cocked him up along side the head , but you cant beat stupid out of people

[alkemical]

Morality is a product of consciousness.

Sin is a product of god.

hmmm - i still think that society sets the taboo's/sins

[Rohirrim]

hmmm - i still think that society sets the taboo's/sins

And from where do they derive the value system that informs their choices?

[Bob]

??? Each of your posts outdoes the previous one in sheer senselessness.

As far as your Code Pink idiocy. Besides the fact that I have no idea what you are talking about, the Secret Service picked up the first guy so I'm guessing the three since then have been new, not to mention the ones shouting "Traitor" and "Terrorist."

The truth is you are in denial. It is only the Right engaging in this hatred, vehemence, racism and fomenting of violence. I'm sure the Secret Service protecting Obama are on heightened alert knowing that some whacked out Christian racist fundamentalist would love to take him out.

And what color is the sky on your planet?

[Bob]

You're welcome to speak your mind. The trouble you seem to have is dealing with others speaking back.

Thats a construct you have created...

No evidence anywhere, but if you must believe, in America you can still believe in any myth you wish.

[Rohirrim]

And what color is the sky on your planet?

Once again... ??? WTF?

[alkemical]

And from where do they derive the value system that informs their choices?

Well that totally depends. How much of it would be biologically based without us knowing it beyond a chemical released that makes us "feel" someway? Thus the dominant species of that society make it taboo.

How that value system is set, is totally dependent on what methods of control would be wanted to be in place in other ways as well.

[Bronco Bob]

The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization.
Robert Anton Wilson


God even let his own son be tortured and murdered in a horrible, brutal
way. And didn't even lift a finger to save him, or even to ease his pain.
What kind of father lets something like that happen to his own son?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

God even let his own son be tortured and murdered in a horrible, brutal
way. And didn't even lift a finger to save him, or even to ease his pain.
What kind of father lets something like that happen to his own son?

Better, yet, if God wanted to "save" mankind, then why was this sort of sadomasochistic drama even necessary?

Couldn't He have just said "abracadabra" or something?

After all, He is God. ;)

[kappys]

Better, yet, if God wanted to "save" mankind, then why was this sort of sadomasochistic drama even necessary?

Couldn't He have just said "abracadabra" or something?

After all, He is God. ;)

Not a theological thread here really - but it has taken that turn. I do not defend bible thumpers but I take issue with this claim you have posted. It gets to another deep argument - often posited by those in power - that man would be happier as a slave with a benevolent master than they would as free men who can make their own choices. And what the above suggests is indeed that God should act as a benevolent slave master. I rejected that argument long ago. To loosely paraphrase Rousseau it does not behoove slaves to boast of the repose they feel in their chains. Freedom is a virtue for which thirst grows with the tasting. When I see entirely naked savages reject European voluptuousness and brave the fire, sword, and death - all in defense of their freedom - it impresses me that freedom is its own reward in excess of those enjoyed by even the most well cared for slave.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Not a theological thread here really - but it has taken that turn. I do not defend bible thumpers but I take issue with this claim you have posted. It gets to another deep argument - often posited by those in power - that man would be happier as a slave with a benevolent master than they would as free men who can make their own choices. And what the above suggests is indeed that God should act as a benevolent slave master. I rejected that argument long ago. To loosely paraphrase Rousseau it does not behoove slaves to boast of the repose they feel in their chains. Freedom is a virtue for which thirst grows with the tasting. When I see entirely naked savages reject European voluptuousness and brave the fire, sword, and death - all in defense of their freedom - it impresses me that freedom is its own reward in excess of those enjoyed by even the most well cared for slave.

Man's freedom and the notion of the omnipotent and omniscient God of Judeo-Christian theology (who purportedly created the universe ex nihilo) are incompatible.

[kappys]

Man's freedom and the notion of the omnipotent and omniscient God of Judeo-Christian theology (who purportedly created the universe ex nihilo) are incompatible.

An omnipotent and omniscient God need not be a slavemaster any more than I would be if I created a garden suitable for an anthill.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfounded_ .html

so it seems this story is unfounded seeing how only the reporter herd that no need to thank me just stating the facts

[Bob]

Dead wrong. Morality is FACTUALLY enhanced by disbelief in god, because the god represented in the Bible is an evil, meglomanical, murdering racist (ask the Hittites). Any honest reading of the Bible or Book of Mormon supports that factual view.

I guess that has not been my experience, or with most folks that attempt to walk the walk. As I read these books often, if the CORE message you get from reading them is 90% evil then we have gotten to the point when evil is being called good, and good evil. When people look for the warts on our Founding Fathers, to the degree that the good can no longer be seen, or if the Boy Scouts are a hate organization, and if most LDS folks or evangelicals you meet reflect hatred, and do more harm than good in the world. If America is seen mostly as a force for evil in the world -- all these things I think are reflection of those that are filled with more self-loathing than love. You are welcome to to your views, I just think you have chosen to focus on the warts instead of the good that outweighs the bad stuff.

[Bob]

God even let his own son be tortured and murdered in a horrible, brutal
way. And didn't even lift a finger to save him, or even to ease his pain.
What kind of father lets something like that happen to his own son?

If one does not believe in God, suffering in general has little context. If there was purpose in temporary pain and temporary death, then it may have been worth the payment.

[Bob]

That is laughable.

1. The Bible if full of death and horrible things happening to people. Like god letting the devil take everything away from a man, killing his family and stealing all his possessions just to test his faithfullness. What bull****. And God drowning out everyone on the earth with a flood. Just two of countless examples.

2. Looking back in history, and even today, more people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else. The Crusades come to mind. I don't want some religious nut job that believes humans rode dinosaurs 4,000 years ago to be one death away from presidency.

I have learned a few things in life -- that folks cant/wont be convinced against their will. I honestly wonder for those that are sometimes vocal in talking down what is in the Bible, particularly those things in the NT if they have read it, or look for warts to support their own views. I am sure some have, but I believe that teh number is small that has read it, and much smaller who have attempted to put into practice some of teh stuff that is in there. That is my opinion. There are a few assumptions you mentioned.

If one believes in something after life, then suffering in life does become less important, the math of a life time of suffering can more than be made up afterward. I love the story of Job personally, as it illustrates the preceeding point of "trust in God" dispite what might be the most blatant example of pain coming upon someone who did no wrong. Things worked out for Job in the end, and it is my beliefe that because of what he went through he was given the very most that God can give a person, if he had not gone through those things, perhaps he woudl have not had the level of preperation needed.

Regarding the flood -- the earth was filled with violence, and the children being born to parents were being born into a place with no hope -- so maybe God saved generations of the unborn to live in a better world than what woudl have been. And all the kids that died in the flood? They are children and would automaticly recieve exaltation in my opinion.

lastly you are right too many have been killed in the name of God -- people use any and every excuse to kill: Land, oil, god, greed, political/ideological control. The USSR killed millions under communist rule, there was no god there. I believe that the Crusades were evil as well, and God was not in it -- just man's ideas of god and greed.
I know my response is filled with my assumptions as well -- but wanted to offer a different take that is not always expressed around here.

[Drek]

http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfounded_ .html

so it seems this story is unfounded seeing how only the reporter herd that no need to thank me just stating the facts

Thats funny, because I listened to the stump speech on POTUS, a non-partisan XM radio channel that plays live streams of most presidential events, and I CLEARLY heard someone from the crowd yell "KILL HIM".

So uh, maybe the Secret Service needs to get back to work huh? Get some better sources? Something?

Or do they just assign the mouth breathers to guard Palin?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Violent, Criminal Minds of the GOP: "Top Tampa GOP Figure Circulates Joke About Killing Obama" (http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/news/story/top-tampa-gop-figure-circulates-joke-about-killing-obama/)

Florida GOP Fundraiser Sends Email Joke about Killing Barack and Michelle Obama (http://www.buzzflash.net/story.php?id=75335)

[Traveler]

It was kind of strange, dintcha think, that John McCain came to the defense of his supporters last night after Barack Obama pointed out that people at McCain/Palin rallies were shouting out "terrorist" and "kill him!" in reference to Obama.

Now an Al Jazeera camera crew caught the honest sentiments of McCain/Palin supporters at an Ohio rally:

“I’m afraid if he wins, the blacks will take over. He’s not a Christian! This is a Christian nation! What is our country gonna end up like?”

“When you got a Negra running for president, you need a first stringer. He’s definitely a second stringer.”

“He seems like a sheep - or a wolf in sheep’s clothing to be honest with you. And I believe Palin - she’s filled with the Holy Spirit, and I believe she’s gonna bring honesty and integrity to the White House.”

“He’s related to a known terrorist, for one.”

“He is friends with a terrorist of this country!”

“He must support terrorists! You know, uh, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. And that to me is Obama.”

“Just the whole, Muslim thing, and everything, and everybody’s still kinda - a lot of people have forgotten about 9/11, but… I dunno, it’s just kinda… a little unnerving.”

“Obama and his wife, I’m concerned that they could be anti-white. That he might hide that.”

“I don’t like the fact that he thinks us white people are trash… because we’re not!”

Yep, McCain must be so proud.

The rest of us, well ... let's just say those polls should tell the story.


[H/t to Ta-Nehisi Coates, via Spencer Ackerman. Transcript via Prose Before Hos.]

UPDATE: Transcript altered to reflect, as some commenters point out, that the man in the video did not use the actual "N word."





http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/mccainpalin-supporters-let-their-rac

[Bob]

It was kind of strange, dintcha think, that John McCain came to the defense of his supporters last night after Barack Obama pointed out that people at McCain/Palin rallies were shouting out "terrorist" and "kill him!" in reference to Obama.

Now an Al Jazeera camera crew caught the honest sentiments of McCain/Palin supporters at an Ohio rally:

“I’m afraid if he wins, the blacks will take over. He’s not a Christian! This is a Christian nation! What is our country gonna end up like?”

“When you got a Negra running for president, you need a first stringer. He’s definitely a second stringer.”

“He seems like a sheep - or a wolf in sheep’s clothing to be honest with you. And I believe Palin - she’s filled with the Holy Spirit, and I believe she’s gonna bring honesty and integrity to the White House.”

“He’s related to a known terrorist, for one.”

“He is friends with a terrorist of this country!”

“He must support terrorists! You know, uh, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. And that to me is Obama.”

“Just the whole, Muslim thing, and everything, and everybody’s still kinda - a lot of people have forgotten about 9/11, but… I dunno, it’s just kinda… a little unnerving.”

“Obama and his wife, I’m concerned that they could be anti-white. That he might hide that.”

“I don’t like the fact that he thinks us white people are trash… because we’re not!”

Yep, McCain must be so proud.

The rest of us, well ... let's just say those polls should tell the story.


[H/t to Ta-Nehisi Coates, via Spencer Ackerman. Transcript via Prose Before Hos.]

UPDATE: Transcript altered to reflect, as some commenters point out, that the man in the video did not use the actual "N word."





http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/mccainpalin-supporters-let-their-rac

This message brought to you by Acorn...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This message brought to you by Acorn...

http://www.ohanaed.com/images/4533.gif

[stugotsII]

http://www.ohanaed.com/images/4533.gif

Racist much?

[Rigs11]

yep you repubs don't have a racist bone in your body...I wonder if the great maverick will repudiate this..


Inland GOP mailing depicts Obama's face on food stamp

By MICHELLE DeARMOND
The Press-Enterprise

The latest newsletter by an Inland Republican women's group depicts Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama surrounded by a watermelon, ribs and a bucket of fried chicken, prompting outrage in political circles.

The October newsletter by the Chaffey Community Republican Women, Federated says if Obama is elected his image will appear on food stamps -- instead of dollar bills like other presidents. The statement is followed by an illustration of "Obama Bucks" -- a phony $10 bill featuring Obama's face on a donkey's body, labeled "United States Food Stamps."

The GOP newsletter, which was sent to about 200 members and associates of the group by e-mail and regular mail last week, is drawing harsh criticism from members of the political group, elected leaders, party officials and others as racist.

The group's president, Diane Fedele, said she plans to send an apology letter to her members and to apologize at the club's meeting next week. She said she simply wanted to deride a comment Obama made over the summer about how as an African-American he "doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills."

"It was strictly an attempt to point out the outrageousness of his statement. I really don't want to go into it any further," Fedele said in a telephone interview Tuesday. "I absolutely apologize to anyone who was offended. That clearly wasn't my attempt."

Fedele said she got the illustration in a number of chain e-mails and decided to reprint it for her members in the Trumpeter newsletter because she was offended that Obama would draw attention to his own race. She declined to say who sent her the e-mails with the illustration.

She said she doesn't think in racist terms, pointing out she once supported Republican Alan Keyes, an African-American who previously ran for president.

"I didn't see it the way that it's being taken. I never connected," she said. "It was just food to me. It didn't mean anything else."

She said she also wasn't trying to make a statement linking Obama and food stamps, although her introductory text to the illustration connects the two: "Obama talks about all those presidents that got their names on bills. If elected, what bill would he be on????? Food Stamps, what else!"

Club Member Cries

Sheila Raines, an African-American member of the club, was the first person to complain to Fedele about the newsletter. Raines, of San Bernardino, said she has worked hard to try to convince other minorities to join the Republican Party and now she feels betrayed.

"This is what keeps African-Americans from joining the Republican Party," she said. "I'm really hurt. I cried for 45 minutes."

The Obama campaign declined to comment. It's the campaign's policy to not address such attacks, said Gabriel Sanchez, a California spokesman for the campaign.

The newsletter prompted a rebuke from another African-American member of the organization, which is well recognized in the community for its philanthropy and efforts to register and turn out voters in the Rancho Cucamonga and Upland areas.

Acquanetta Warren, a Fontana councilwoman and member of the women's group, said the item is rude and requires a public apology.

"When I opened that up and saw it, I said, 'Why did they do this? It doesn't even reflect our principles and values,' " said Warren, who served as a Republican delegate to the national convention in September and is a regional vice chairwoman for the California Republican Party. "I know a lot of the ladies in that club and they're fantastic. They're volunteers. They really care -- some of them go to my church."

Warren forwarded an electronic version of the newsletter to the California Republican Party headquarters, where officials also were outraged Wednesday and denounced the illustration.

Hector Barajas, the party's press secretary, said the party chairman likely will have a conversation with Fedele, and Barajas will attend the statewide California Federation of Republican Women conference this weekend in Los Angeles to handle any news media there to cover the controversy.

Obama in Turban

The newsletter is not the first such episode Barajas has had to respond to this week. The Sacramento Bee on Wednesday posted an image it said was captured from the Sacramento County GOP Web site that showed Obama in a turban next to Osama bin Laden.

It said: "The difference between Osama and Obama is just a little B.S." The site also encouraged members to "Waterboard Barack Obama," a reference to a torture technique. The Sacramento County party took down the material Tuesday after being criticized.

Mark Kirk, a spokesman for the San Bernardino County GOP chairman, said he expects Chairman Gary Ovitt to also have a talk with Fedele and to attend the group's local meeting next week to discuss the issue with members, although the county GOP has no formal oversight role over the club. Kirk said these kinds of depictions hurt the party's ongoing efforts to reach out to minorities.

"It's very damaging and we're going to take steps to correct this," Kirk said. "Unfortunately, I don't know what you do to correct ignorance like this, but we will do what we can."

Assemblyman Bill Emmerson, R-Redlands, and state Sen. Bob Dutton, R-Rancho Cucamonga, both criticized the illustration as inappropriate and irresponsible.

Dutton pointed out that his wife, a member of the club, is of Mexican heritage and has battled criticism that the Republican Party is not the party for minorities. The club's newsletter undercuts efforts to rise above racism, he said.

"Bias and racial comments and even suggestions are frankly what weakens us as a people. I think we as Americans need to rise above that," he said.

Emmerson said he was extremely offended and sickened by the newsletter.

Barbara O'Connor, director of the Institute for the Study of Politics and the Media at Cal State Sacramento, said it's imperative that people speak out about these kinds of depictions no matter how small the organization. She praised Raines for doing so.

"It's a statement about what is civil discourse and can you get away with doing something under an organizational banner," she said. "You have to cut it out at the root and the root is often small organizations that are local and they then become larger."

Reach Michelle DeArmond at 951-368-9441 or mdearmond@PE.co

http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2008/10-16/racist16_400.jpg

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_buck16.3d67d4a.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Racist much?

Lie much?

[Rank&File]

i love how all of the republicans get lumped in with this stupid bitch. so all republicans are racist now? get a grip

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Secret Service investigating threat from Scranton Palin rally

BY DAVID SINGLETON
STAFF WRITER

Published: Wednesday, October 15, 2008
Updated: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:36 PM EDT

The U.S. Secret Service is investigating a threatening remark directed at Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama during a political event in Scranton.

The agency followed up on a report in The Times-Tribune that a member of the crowd shouted, "Kill him!" after one mention of Mr. Obama's name during a rally Tuesday for Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin.

The remark came while congressional candidate Chris Hackett was addressing the crowd at the Riverfront Sports Complex. There is no indication Mr. Hackett or Mrs. Palin, who took the stage a half-hour later, heard the remark.

The remark was reported almost immediately on the newspaper's Web site and today in the print edition.

<!-- AdSys ad not found for news:m9 -->
Times-Tribune employees who covered the rally were interviewed today by the Secret Service.

Spokesman Darrin Blackford said the agency takes the threat seriously. If the agency can determine who shouted the remark, it would present that information to federal prosecutors, he said.

http://www.scrantontimes.com/articles/2008/10/15/news/doc48f6128d24004210022010.txt

[Odysseus]

i love how all of the republicans get lumped in with this stupid b****. so all republicans are racist now? get a grip

I guess the ones that haven't shown disgust with their party. I imagine that's what you get when you redefine "patriotism". I've worked with the Republicans in the past. There are some amazing Republicans in the wings whose ideas I hope start to make a difference but for now this wreckage called "the grand old party" doesn't amount to pile of dog crap.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

GOP racism: "The latest newsletter by an Inland Republican women's group depicts Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama surrounded by a watermelon, ribs and a bucket of fried chicken, prompting outrage in political circles." 10/17 (http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_buck16.3d67d4a.html)

[Rank&File]

I guess the ones that haven't shown disgust with their party. I imagine that's what you get when you redefine "patriotism". I've worked with the Republicans in the past. There are some amazing Republicans in the wings whose ideas I hope start to make a difference but for now this wreckage called "the grand old party" doesn't amount to pile of dog crap.


i don't even care anymore. dems and repubs on both sides would rather **** in eachother's dinner, than work together to get good things done. the hatred that both sides show for eachother is a problem. like i said though, i dont really give a ****.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/palin-supporters.jpg
</center>

[Odysseus]

i don't even care anymore. dems and repubs on both sides would rather **** in eachother's dinner, than work together to get good things done. the hatred that both sides show for eachother is a problem. like i said though, i dont really give a ****.

I understand.

[Needa Pass Rush]

I guess the ones that haven't shown disgust with their party. I imagine that's what you get when you redefine "patriotism". I've worked with the Republicans in the past. There are some amazing Republicans in the wings whose ideas I hope start to make a difference but for now this wreckage called "the grand old party" doesn't amount to pile of dog crap.

And you get to point proudly to Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, et el with pride. You go, dude! Ha!

[Paladin]

And you get to point proudly to Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, et el with pride. You go, dude! Ha!

And you got Sarah.....

(Jeezus, what a loser..)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And you got Sarah.....

(Jeezus, what a loser..)

Yep.

The party Needa Pass Rush supports has outstripped the Dems by several thousand miles in the corruption and criminality department.

It's obvious that the old adage about people who live in glass houses not throwing stones is completely lost on him.

[alkemical]

I guess that has not been my experience, or with most folks that attempt to walk the walk. As I read these books often, if the CORE message you get from reading them is 90% evil then we have gotten to the point when evil is being called good, and good evil. When people look for the warts on our Founding Fathers, to the degree that the good can no longer be seen, or if the Boy Scouts are a hate organization, and if most LDS folks or evangelicals you meet reflect hatred, and do more harm than good in the world. If America is seen mostly as a force for evil in the world -- all these things I think are reflection of those that are filled with more self-loathing than love. You are welcome to to your views, I just think you have chosen to focus on the warts instead of the good that outweighs the bad stuff.

The bolded sections have more true than not. We are hypocrites. We say one thing, but do another. But the problem is...we are so serious about it - that we deny it, even though it's truth.

[frerottenextelway]

http://wkrc.img.cdn.dayport.com/img/dp_thumbs/thumb_1224242185499_0p1978446474928825.jpg

[Paladin]

Explain that, please.

Looks like sombody reversed the picture. Where was this?

[frerottenextelway]

Explain that, please.

Looks like sombody reversed the picture. Where was this?

http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=39c3f3ee-24f8-4126-9ea8-f8b18ef1c2d1


Surprise, shock and some fear in a local neighborhood, after an anti-Obama display is hung from a tree. The display is at a home at Symmes and Hicks Road in Fairfield.

And the person who put it there says the message isn't political, it's racist. Shawn Ley spoke with the man who isn't shy about his views.

There it is, right above the "McCain-Palin" sign: a make-shift ghost, hanging from a noose. A Barack Obama sign attached upside down. Obama's middle name: "Hussein" spray painted and misspelled above.

Mike Lunsford hung the ghost in his yard. He spoke to us off-camera, saying his views could hurt his employers business ... but he says make no mistake: He doesn't want an African American running the country.

Lunsford says he believes Barack Obama is not a "full blooded American." And he says the United States is a white, Christian nation - and only with white Christians should be in power. With Lunsford not willing to share his views on-camera:

"It's like whoa. He's definitely anti-black."

His neighbors are. Vickie Crowe lives next door. She's an Obama supporter.

"What did you think when you first saw that?" Vickie Crowe/neighbor: "Well actually my 5 year old son says Obama's hanging upside down. He's what? He's hanging upside down. It's the neighbor's ghost. I took it as a little bit of a racist statement because my grandson's mixed and it hurt a little bit."

Mike Lunsford says he got the idea after an Obama supporter in New York put up this display of a Obama mannequin being chased by a figure of John McCain wearing Ku Klux Klan robes.

Here - new mom Megan story says this symbol makes her more than uneasy it scares her. Megan Story/neighbor: "He's been a really nice neighbor but it's one of those you question and wonder, you know, if he's that forward about something will he be forward enough to do something else, too. it is scary at times but we live in a scary world."

Lunsford also says he's motivated by the national media which he says is pro-Obama. The McCain KKK image is being celebrated as a "hit" on the internet. Lunsford expects a negative reaction to this, although he hasn't gotten any complaints.

[Odysseus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0

What is pretty disturbing is not that these interview happened but that this is like the Fox news of the Muslim world representing ALL of America as this. In Colin Powell's interview he referred to this which kind of caught me off guard.

Imagine if this is what the world thinks of us?

[baja]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0

What is pretty disturbing is not that these interview happened but that this is like the Fox news of the Muslim world representing ALL of America as this. In Colin Powell's interview he referred to this which kind of caught me off guard.

Imagine if this is what the world thinks of us?

That is down right scary

We need an apocalyptic event to save the species.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

im soo racist i tossed out all the colored crayons i only kept the white ones

[Bob]

i love how all of the republicans get lumped in with this stupid b****. so all republicans are racist now? get a grip

Its how discussion gets dragged down around here -- it's too close to the election to think straight for many. I think the right does the same thing, it cuts both ways. If folks see themselves as Dems first, or if Repubs see themselves as a party member first the best way to deal with issues is to scream the loudest, and paint the other guys narrowly.

I confess to doing the same thing as well (at times) -- try not to, but it depends on how tired or angry I am.

[gunns]

And you get to point proudly to Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, et el with pride. You go, dude! Ha!

Combined they don't equal the garbage that is George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Also, I didn't vote for any of the people mentioned above. Can you say the same about Bush and Cheney?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

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[Odysseus]

That is down right scary

We need an apocalyptic event to save the species.

The Broncos winning a Superbowl?

[SJ Bronco]

The Broncos winning a Superbowl?

Easy bro, some of us still believe....... and they say agnostics don't have faith.:thumbs: ;D

[Rohirrim]

The Broncos winning a Superbowl?

Even God can't do some things. ;)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Obama supporters receive death threats over yard signs 10/21 (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/20/141535/36/188/636472)

Meek said McCain is running one of the nastiest campaigns in North Carolina history, and he thinks the Arizona Republican is in danger of not just losing the election “but he will ultimately end up being a disgrace 10/21 (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/optimistic-mccain-camp-unloads-new-lines-of-attack-2008-10-20.html)

[TailgateNut]

[QUOTE=L.A. BRONCOS FAN;2136952][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][B]Obama supporters receive death threats over yard signs 10/21 (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/20/141535/36/188/636472)

I had a few knuckledraggers across the street from my house last weekend oggling my yard signs (1 Obama Biden sign, 1 McCain Palin sign slightly abused by yours truly, and a local candidate sign), but the "bitches" did say squat.

Single brain cell ****wads just like gangbangers.

[Paladin]

I try to distinguish Republicans from repugnicans. I admire Powell, for example, and I probably would have voted for him at one point if he ran for office. Even George Will and the late William F. Buckley had good ideas and some good viewpoints to consider.

But those guys lost the soul of the GOP to the far right (Limpball and his ilk), and those nutjobs are what you see in that video and on the talk shows.

I don't feel sorry for them. I pity their ignorance and their wallowing in it....

[OrangeDoofus]

I try to distinguish Republicans from repugnicans. I admire Powell, for example, and I probably would have voted for him at one point if he ran for office. Even George Will and the late William F. Buckley had good ideas and some good viewpoints to consider.

But those guys lost the soul of the GOP to the far right (Limpball and his ilk), and those nutjobs are what you see in that video and on the talk shows.

I don't feel sorry for them. I pity their ignorance and their wallowing in it....
I agree completely with this.

I saw Chris Buckley on the Daily Show last night, and he adopted a line from Reagan: "I didn't leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me." A lot of the more thoughtful conservatives are coming to the same conclusion.

It's a shame, because the conservative philosophy really does have some good ideas to offer America. But the Republican party is driving out all its heavy thinkers; what's left is the Michelle Bachmans and the Sarah Palins. So the innovative ideas coming out of the right these days are things like "minorities caused the economic meltdown and now they're going to steal the election" and "the only real Americans are white people in small towns."

[Bob]

I agree completely with this.

I saw Chris Buckley on the Daily Show last night, and he adopted a line from Reagan: "I didn't leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me." A lot of the more thoughtful conservatives are coming to the same conclusion.

It's a shame, because the conservative philosophy really does have some good ideas to offer America. But the Republican party is driving out all its heavy thinkers; what's left is the Michelle Bachmans and the Sarah Palins. So the innovative ideas coming out of the right these days are things like "minorities caused the economic meltdown and now they're going to steal the election" and "the only real Americans are white people in small towns."

That not a quote, it is your perception of what the right is saying... but it is a fact that too many folks who did not have the resources to buy homes bought them, and banks were only to happy to profit from the closing costs, and doing subprime loans and Dems did lower the standards to encourage home ownership, Bush pushed for home ownership to a fault. If more poor minorities and poor whites bought homes they should not have, I feel bad for them if they were duped, but if they were rolling the dice assuming prices were going to rise forever, or assuming they were going to get raises at work to cover ARM loans -- but when the rest of America (who have lived within their means) has to bail the banks out that made these bad loans -- the net affect if the dollar loosing more value. I dont hate minorities, whites who bought homes they shoudl not have, but the middle class are shouldering the burden for their poor choices, and the poor choices of politicans of encouraging subprime loans, and bailing out banks? The "solution" has been to print more money -- that is not a solution, that will crush the middle class and the poor and will make us more dependent on the government (which I think is a big reason why we are seeing the the on-going insanity of attempting to spend ourselves out of the problem of overspending.)

[Paladin]

There are some salient points in your post. But it sort of skirted the intent and content of the previous two posts which lamented the loss of truly creative conservative thought. There are some solutions out there to a number of the ills the US has, but they are not all on the table yet.....

[Bob]

There are some salient points in your post. But it sort of skirted the intent and content of the previous two posts which lamented the loss of truly creative conservative thought. There are some solutions out there to a number of the ills the US has, but they are not all on the table yet.....

I think that the good Conservative ideas are being thrown out right now, allong with the bad -- the repubs as a whole are not what I see as conservative, I think that Ron Paul is a more accurate mold.

[OrangeDoofus]

That not a quote, it is your perception of what the right is saying...
You're right, but I think it's a pretty accurate perception. Look at the polling after the debates, and you can see the people overwhelmingly see Obama as the one who's talking about people's problems and McCain as the one who's just attacking his opponent. That's why Obama's winning; people who are in trouble want to hear that they're going to get some help more than they want to hear about whose fault it is.

Obama's ideas aren't anything new; his proposals are basically the same liberal ideas that the Democrats have been putting forward for a long time. And like any politician he's leaving a lot of the details vague. But he's beating McCain because he's actually talking about his ideas.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/powell-terrorist-too.jpg
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