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cutthemdown
10-08-2008, 02:53 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_on_re_eu/eu_iceland_meltdown_1

REYKJAVIK, Iceland - This volcanic island near the Arctic Circle is on the brink of becoming the first "national bankruptcy" of the global financial meltdown.

Home to just 320,000 people on a territory the size of Kentucky, Iceland has formidable international reach because of an outsized banking sector that set out with Viking confidence to conquer swaths of the British economy — from fashion retailers to top soccer teams.

The strategy gave Icelanders one of the world's highest per capita incomes. But now they are watching helplessly as their economy implodes — their currency losing almost half its value, and their heavily exposed banks collapsing under the weight of debts incurred by lending in the boom times.

"Everything is closed. We couldn't sell our stock or take money from the bank," said Johann Sigurdsson as he left a branch of Landsbanki in downtown Reykjavik.

The government had earlier announced it had nationalized the bank under emergency laws enacted to deal with the crisis.

"We have been forced to take decisive action to save the country," Prime Minister Geir H. Haarde said of those sweeping new powers that allow the government to take over companies, limit the authority of boards, and call shareholder meetings.

A full-blown collapse of Iceland's financial system would send shock waves across Europe, given the heavy investment by Icelandic banks and companies across the continent.

One of Iceland's biggest companies, retailing investment group Baugur, owns or has stakes in dozens of major European retailers — including enough to make it the largest private company in Britain, where it owns a handful of stores such as the famous toy store Hamley's.

Kaupthing, Iceland's largest bank and one of those whose share trading was suspended last week to stop a huge sell-off, has also invested in European retail groups.

Thousands of Britons have accounts with Icesave, the online arm of Landsbanki that regulators said was likely to file for bankruptcy after it stopped permitting customers to withdraw money from their accounts Tuesday.

To try to wrest control of the spiraling situation, the government also loaned $680 million to Kaupthing to tide it over and said it was negotiating a $5.4 billion loan from Russia to shore up the nation's finances.

The speed of Iceland's downfall in the week since it announced it was nationalizing Glitnir bank, the country's third largest, caught many by surprise despite warnings that it was the "canary in the coal mine" of the global credit squeeze.

Famous for its cod fishing industry, geysers, moonscape and the Blue Lagoon, Iceland was the site of the Cold War showdown in which Bobby Fischer of the United States defeated Boris Spassky of the Soviet Union in 1972 for the world chess championship. Last year, Iceland won the U.N.'s "best country to live in" poll, with its residents deemed the most contented in the world.

No more.

Despite sunny skies Tuesday after three days of unseasonably cold weather, Reykjavik's mood remained grim — cafes were half-empty, real estate agents sat idle, and retailers reported few sales.

"I'm really starting to get worried now. Everything is bad news. I don't know what's happening," said retiree Helga Jonsdottir as she headed to a supermarket.

Icelanders are also beginning to question how a relative few were able to generate the disproportionate wealth — and associated debt — that Haarde has warned puts the entire country at risk of bankruptcy.

Iceland's reinvention from the poor cousin in Europe to one of the region's wealthiest countries dates to the deregulation of the banking industry and the creation of the domestic stock market in the mid-1990s.

Those free market reforms turned Iceland from a conservative, inward-looking country to one of a new generation of internationally educated young businessmen and women who were determined to give Iceland a modern profile far beyond its fishing base.

Entrepreneurs become its greatest export, as banks and companies marched across Europe and their acquisition wallets were filled by a stock market boom and a well-funded pension system. Among the purchases were the iconic Hamley's toy store and the West Ham soccer team.

Back home, the average family's wealth soared 45 percent in half a decade and gross domestic product rose at around 5 percent a year.

But the whole system was built on a shaky foundation of foreign debt.

The country's top four banks now hold foreign liabilities in excess of $100 billion, debts that dwarf Iceland's gross domestic product of $14 billion.

Those external liabilities mean the private sector has had great difficulty financing its debts, such as the more than $5.25 billion racked up by Kaupthing in five years to help fund British deals.

Iceland is unique "because the sheer size of its financial sector puts it in a vulnerable situation, and its currency has always been seen as a high risk and high yield," said Venla Sipila, a senior economist at Global Insight in London.

The krona is suffering in part from a withdrawal by a falloff in what are called carry trades — where investors borrow cheaply in a country with low rates, such as Japan, and invest in a country where returns, and often risks, are higher.

After watching the free-fall for several days, the Central Bank of Iceland stepped in Tuesday to fix the exchange rate of the currency at 175 — a level equal to 131 krona against the euro.

Haarde said he believed the measures had renewed confidence in the system. He also was critical of the lack of an Europe-wide response to the crisis, saying Iceland had been forced to adopt an "every-country-for-itself" mentality.

He acknowledged that Iceland's financial reputation was likely to suffer from both the crisis and the response despite strong fundamentals such as the fishing industry and clean and renewable energy resources.

As regular Icelanders begin to blame the government and market regulators, Haarde said the banks had been "victims of external circumstances."

Richard Portes of the London Business School agreed, noting the banks were well-capitalized and had not bought any of the toxic debt that has brought down banks elsewhere.

"I believe it is absolutely wrong to say these banks were reckless," said. "Quite the contrary. They were hugely unlucky."

cutthemdown
10-08-2008, 02:54 AM
All the people who thought this was an American thing are just dead wrong.

Soon the Euro and the Dollar will be worth virtually the same.

elsid13
10-08-2008, 02:59 AM
All the people who thought this was an American thing are just dead wrong.

Soon the Euro and the Dollar will be worth virtually the same.

Greed doesn't have recognize any borders.

cutthemdown
10-08-2008, 03:14 AM
weird how Iceland became such a player being that they are so tiny. They went from living the rural life, to the big life, to the poorhouse in like a decade.

kappys
10-08-2008, 07:59 AM
Japan is on the big downslide too. China has been quiet - but all signs point to disaster there as well.

I still think the smart investments are in India, possibly some South American markets(Brazil, Argentina, Chile - I need to do more research). They don't have the export driven dependencies of some of the other countries - and countries like India may benefit further from offering cheap technical expertise to companies looking to cut costs. Also India I think stands to benefit a lot from cheaper energy imports

I was feeling very content to keep my money in the bank and ride the downfall until I felt it was time to invest again. With the Fed now cutting rates again I think inflation is going to happen versus the Rupee and possibly Mercado del Sur currencies(which collapsed in 2001 and I think have been on the right track since).

ak1971
10-08-2008, 08:09 AM
Japan is on the big downslide too. China has been quiet - but all signs point to disaster there as well.

I still think the smart investments are in India, possibly some South American markets(Brazil, Argentina, Chile - I need to do more research). They don't have the export driven dependencies of some of the other countries - and countries like India may benefit further from offering cheap technical expertise to companies looking to cut costs. Also India I think stands to benefit a lot from cheaper energy imports

I was feeling very content to keep my money in the bank and ride the downfall until I felt it was time to invest again. With the Fed now cutting rates again I think inflation is going to happen versus the Rupee and possibly Mercado del Sur currencies(which collapsed in 2001 and I think have been on the right track since).

I really believe that Japan is the place to be. I figure that thier economy has been beat to **** since the 80s., and since they didnt have the run up on RE values, they should be the forerunners to pop.

kappys
10-08-2008, 08:17 AM
I really believe that Japan is the place to be. I figure that thier economy has been beat to **** since the 80s., and since they didnt have the run up on RE values, they should be the forerunners to pop.

They've been hit hard recently though. I worry that they are too dependant on exports to do well; though I agree they will probably not be as hard hit as China, Europe or the US.

ak1971
10-08-2008, 08:19 AM
They've been hit hard recently though. I worry that they are too dependant on exports to do well; though I agree they will probably not be as hard hit as China, Europe or the US.

There are alot of good Japanese ETFs which are trading so low, I think there are some good bargins there.

back to the thread, I think the Euro is toast.

kappys
10-08-2008, 08:22 AM
There are alot of good Japanese ETFs which are trading so low, I think there are some good bargins there.

back to the thread, I think the Euro is toast.

I think you're spot on in the long run. I'm just worried that there will mostly a global slide for a year or so before things start to pick up. I'm guessing where the money is to be made during this coming year - after which I would move it into undervalued stocks in other nations/at home.

ak1971
10-08-2008, 08:34 AM
I think you're spot on in the long run. I'm just worried that there will mostly a global slide for a year or so before things start to pick up. I'm guessing where the money is to be made during this coming year - after which I would move it into undervalued stocks in other nations/at home.

if you are a trader..I think getting in and out of financials daily over the next year can build you a nice war chest for the future

Dudeskey
10-08-2008, 09:33 AM
All the people who thought this was an American thing are just dead wrong.

Soon the Euro and the Dollar will be worth virtually the same.

You mean the euro, the dollar and the peso...™

alkemical
10-08-2008, 09:40 AM
You mean the euro, the dollar and the peso...™

Hey i got an idea!!!!

Maybe we can call ourselves something different than U.S.A - you know a new identity - then maybe we can create a new currency, and a fresh piece of credit.

Rohirrim
10-08-2008, 09:44 AM
Hey i got an idea!!!!

Maybe we can call ourselves something different than U.S.A - you know a new identity - then maybe we can create a new currency, and a fresh piece of credit.

I say it's time for that old chess trick when you know you're getting your ass kicked: Flip the board. ;D

Dudeskey
10-08-2008, 09:44 AM
Hey i got an idea!!!!

Maybe we can call ourselves something different than U.S.A - you know a new identity - then maybe we can create a new currency, and a fresh piece of credit.

nudge nudge, wink wink...™
http://www.designscomputed.com/coins/r_eagle_lib_20amero_pl.jpg

alkemical
10-08-2008, 09:52 AM
I say it's time for that old chess trick when you know you're getting your ass kicked: Flip the board. ;D

lol, no i was waiting to see if the other person knows chess ;)

alkemical
10-08-2008, 09:54 AM
nudge nudge, wink wink...™
http://www.designscomputed.com/coins/r_eagle_lib_20amero_pl.jpg

I wonder if new vending machines will be needed?

Dudeskey
10-08-2008, 10:01 AM
I wonder if new vending machines will be needed?

Well there you go. More manufacturing jobs.... err for China that is...™

Beantown Bronco
10-08-2008, 10:04 AM
I say it's time for that old chess trick when you know you're getting your ass kicked: Flip the board. ;D

The tried and true Nintendo trick....accidentally bump the reset button with your leg.

alkemical
10-08-2008, 10:06 AM
The tried and true Nintendo trick....accidentally bump the reset button with your leg.

Ours was hooked up to an outlet that was on a wall switch... :thumbs:

alkemical
10-08-2008, 10:08 AM
Well there you go. More manufacturing jobs.... err for China that is...™

F*ck me.....

ak1971
10-08-2008, 10:16 AM
speaking of Nintedo, whats up with them televising Madden torunaments on ESPN...gay!

alkemical
10-08-2008, 10:29 AM
speaking of Nintedo, whats up with them televising Madden torunaments on ESPN...gay!

Dude, it's like MTV - you will have to get ESPN deportes III to get sports stuff on.

Paladin
10-08-2008, 10:35 AM
Goes to show you:

The free market is not free if someone buys it..........

ak1971
10-08-2008, 10:36 AM
Dude, it's like MTV - you will have to get ESPN deportes III to get sports stuff on.

do they televise Tijuana Donkey Races?

alkemical
10-08-2008, 10:47 AM
Goes to show you:

The free market is not free if someone buys it..........

Come on man - it says "Free" right on the package!

alkemical
10-08-2008, 10:47 AM
do they televise Tijuana Donkey Races?

lol - i hope so - i'd like to know how eeyore-o does this weekend.

Rohirrim
10-08-2008, 10:50 AM
lol - i hope so - i'd like to know how eeyore-o does this weekend.

They can't get Eeyore to run. He just walks around going, "We're ****ed."

cutthemdown
10-08-2008, 11:01 AM
Japan is on the big downslide too. China has been quiet - but all signs point to disaster there as well.

I still think the smart investments are in India, possibly some South American markets(Brazil, Argentina, Chile - I need to do more research). They don't have the export driven dependencies of some of the other countries - and countries like India may benefit further from offering cheap technical expertise to companies looking to cut costs. Also India I think stands to benefit a lot from cheaper energy imports

I was feeling very content to keep my money in the bank and ride the downfall until I felt it was time to invest again. With the Fed now cutting rates again I think inflation is going to happen versus the Rupee and possibly Mercado del Sur currencies(which collapsed in 2001 and I think have been on the right track since).


Interesting you mention Brazil. I know a guy who made good money buying Brazalian currency but that was like 8-10 months ago. I haven't seen him since then so I'm not sure what he thinks about Brazil right now.

For sure though brazil and emerging power in S. America and we need the President to cozy up to them. They have recently made 2 of the biggest oil discoveries in our hemisphere.

cutthemdown
10-08-2008, 11:03 AM
You mean the euro, the dollar and the peso...™

no I don't. Currencies like the Peso will be hit hard and drop to all major currencies. In fact with the drug war in Mexico ravaging the country I'm not sure Mexico not headed to big trouble.

alkemical
10-08-2008, 11:05 AM
They can't get Eeyore to run. He just walks around going, "We're ****ed."

Well, that's what happens when your best friend is Pooh ;)

alkemical
10-08-2008, 11:05 AM
no I don't. Currencies like the Peso will be hit hard and drop to all major currencies. In fact with the drug war in Mexico ravaging the country I'm not sure Mexico not headed to big trouble.

Mexico just needs to legalize drugs, and sell it to the world. Maybe they can compete with canada for cheap drugs. :thanku:

ak1971
10-08-2008, 11:11 AM
They can't get Eeyore to run. He just walks around going, "We're ****ed."

is that baja's donkey?

alkemical
10-08-2008, 11:12 AM
is that baja's donkey?

No his donkey is named Goat. Assgoat! :rofl:

cutthemdown
10-08-2008, 04:19 PM
Mexico just needs to legalize drugs, and sell it to the world. Maybe they can compete with canada for cheap drugs. :thanku:

Mexico isn't a drug producer really. It's more a transhipment point. The different cartels run different areas and control the flow of cocaine from Columbia.

Legalizing cocaine is no answer. Legalize Marijuana and go harder after hard drugs.

Even if Mexico legalized drugs they still couldn't sell them legally outside of Mexico. Maybe you were just being silly because obviously your idea stinks.

alkemical
10-09-2008, 05:50 AM
Mexico isn't a drug producer really. It's more a transhipment point. The different cartels run different areas and control the flow of cocaine from Columbia.

Legalizing cocaine is no answer. Legalize Marijuana and go harder after hard drugs.

Even if Mexico legalized drugs they still couldn't sell them legally outside of Mexico. Maybe you were just being silly because obviously your idea stinks.

Ya, i guess having a sense of humor sucks.

kappys
10-09-2008, 07:17 AM
Mexico isn't a drug producer really. It's more a transhipment point. The different cartels run different areas and control the flow of cocaine from Columbia.

Legalizing cocaine is no answer. Legalize Marijuana and go harder after hard drugs.

Even if Mexico legalized drugs they still couldn't sell them legally outside of Mexico. Maybe you were just being silly because obviously your idea stinks.

That used to be true until the rise of methamphetamines.

Meth labs within the US have been drastically cut - mainly by making the precursor chemicals difficult to obtain. The same is not true of Mexico where Meth production is now booming, and some cartels are set up primarily as meth exporters rather than worrying about cocaine. Hence the drastic rise in drug cartel activity and violence.

alkemical
10-09-2008, 07:35 AM
That used to be true until the rise of methamphetamines.

Meth labs within the US have been drastically cut - mainly by making the precursor chemicals difficult to obtain. The same is not true of Mexico where Meth production is now booming, and some cartels are set up primarily as meth exporters rather than worrying about cocaine. Hence the drastic rise in drug cartel activity and violence.

Not to mention the cheap "Brick" crop that comes from MX

ak1971
10-09-2008, 07:51 AM
Not to mention the cheap "Brick" crop that comes from MX

cool..Donkey races, weed, meth, and coke.....

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-09-2008, 07:53 AM
Iceland suspends stock trading, creates new bank (AP) (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss/topstories/*http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_iceland_meltdown)

Rohirrim
10-09-2008, 07:56 AM
Oops! Back to blubber meat for you. ;D

Arkie
10-13-2008, 08:45 PM
Icelandic Shoppers Splurge as Currency Woes Reduce Food Imports
By Chad Thomas

Oct. 13 (Bloomberg) -- After a four-year spending spree, Icelanders are flooding the supermarkets one last time, stocking up on food as the collapse of the banking system threatens to cut the island off from imports.

``We have had crazy days for a week now,'' said Johannes Smari Oluffsson, manager of the Bonus discount grocery store in Reykjavik's main shopping center. ``Sales have doubled.''

Bonus, a nationwide chain, has stock at its warehouse for about two weeks. After that, the shelves will start emptying unless it can get access to foreign currency, the 22-year-old manager said, standing in a walk-in fridge filled with meat products, among the few goods on sale produced locally.

Iceland's foreign currency market has seized up after the three largest banks collapsed and the government abandoned an attempt to peg the exchange rate. Many banks won't trade the krona and suppliers from abroad are demanding payment in advance. The government has asked banks to prioritize foreign currency transactions for essentials such as food, drugs and oil.

The crisis is already hitting clothing retailers. A short walk from Bonus in the capital's Kringlan shopping center, Ragnhildur Anna Jonsdottir, 38, owner of the Next Plc clothing store, said she can't get any foreign currency to pay for incoming shipments and, even if she could, the exchange rate would be prohibitively high.

``We aren't getting new shipments in, as we normally do once a week,'' Jonsdottir said. ``This is the third week that we haven't had any shipments.''

Bankrupt

Iceland's 320,000 inhabitants have enjoyed four years of economic growth in excess of 4 percent as banks and businesses expanded abroad, buying up companies from brokerages to West Ham United soccer club. Now, the three biggest banks, Kaupthing Bank hf, Landsbanki Island hf and Glitnir Bank hf have collapsed under the weight of about $61 billion in debts, 12 times the size of the economy, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

The central bank, or Sedlabanki, ditched its attempt to peg the krona to a basket of currencies on Oct. 9, after just two days, citing ``insufficient support'' in the market. Nordea Bank AB, the biggest Scandinavian lender, said the same day that the krona hadn't been traded on the spot market, while the last quoted price was 340 per euro, compared with 122 a month ago.

``There is absolutely no currency in the country today to import,'' said Andres Magnusson, chief executive officer of the Icelandic Federation of Trade and Services in Reykjavik. ``The only way we can solve this problem is to get the IMF into the country.''

Imports Dependency

The International Monetary Fund sent a delegation to the island last week. Prime Minister Geir Haarde said on Oct. 9 his country may ask it for money after failing to get ``the response that we felt that we should be able to get'' from European governments and central banks. The state will also start talks with Russia over a possible 4 billion-euro ($5.5 billion) loan.

Iceland's rugged, treeless terrain, a barren stretch of volcanic rock, geysers and moss, means the country imports most food, other than meat, fish and dairy products.

Magnusson said last week that one of Iceland's largest supermarket chains was unable to get any foreign currency to make purchases abroad and another retailer's electronic payment didn't go through. Iceland will begin to see shortages of ``regular goods'' by the end of the week if nothing changes, he said.

``We are struggling to make the economy survive from hour to hour,'' Magnusson said. ``There is an enormous amount of capital that wants to get out of the country.''

Sedlabanki told lenders on Oct. 10 that residents who want foreign currency should first prove they need the money for traveling by providing documentation for their trip.

Essential Goods

Wholesalers are demanding that importers pay before any goods are shipped, said Knutur Signarsson, head of the Reykjavik-based Federation of Icelandic Trade. Under normal circumstances, wholesalers abroad would extend credit for 30 to 90 days, he said.

``Many of them ask us to pay cash before they send the goods to Iceland,'' Signarsson said. ``Because of the situation, Iceland has become a country that no one trusts any longer.''

Bogi Thor Siguroddsson, owner of Johan Roenning, an import and retail business which has about 7 billion krona ($71 million) in annual sales, says he's instructed his purchasing managers to only import the core goods, including light bulbs, lamps and electrical cables, they need to serve their customers.

``It's enough to have the credit crisis,'' he said. ``Then you have the currency crash. Unfortunately, we have shown that we can't handle it ourselves.''

Food Inflation

Icelanders, whose per capita gross domestic product is the fifth highest in the world, according to the United Nations 2007/2008 Human Development Index, will have to tighten their belts.

Shoppers are paying more for the goods they do get. The cost of fruits and vegetables, nearly all of which are imported, have gone up about 50 percent in recent months, said Steinunn Kristinsdottir, a 33-year-old Reykjavik resident who was leaving the Bonus store with her cart full.

``This situation really has been a bit troubling for people,'' she said. ``They don't know what's going to happen.''

cutthemdown
10-13-2008, 09:14 PM
what a bummer for them.

watermock
10-13-2008, 09:54 PM
debt derivatives...noone knows what they are other than algorythems...it's a domino effect.