European meltdown begins

[Meck77]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_EUROPE_MELTDOWN?SITE=CODER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Baja better start changing those Euros to seeds pretty quick! Ha! I'm going to save the mane some bandwidth. LABF "It's all Bush's fault!".




Oct 6, 11:52 AM EDT

Europe governments strive to avoid bank meltdown

European central banks offer more cash to markets

LONDON (AP) -- European governments struggled to find a coordinated response to the crisis sweeping financial markets Monday, as countries one after the other announced sweeping deposit guarantees on their own to try and shore up their banks. Stock markets plunged.

Iceland and Denmark became the latest countries to declare a deposit guarantee Monday after a startling announcement by German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Sunday that her government would guarantee all private bank savings and CDs held in the euro zone's largest economy. "We want to tell people that their savings are safe," she said.

Faltering confidence in the financial system, undermined by a series of bank bailouts, was precipitating the measures, analysts said, since a failure to match guarantees by Ireland, France, Greece and Sweden could risk a massive fund outflow. Yet the guarantees themselves raised questions about their potential impact on government finances, and showed European governments were unable to find a unified approach despite a weekend summit where they agreed to do just that.

"Governments have no choice but to give the guarantees on deposits, otherwise we will see runs on banks and a complete loss of business and consumer confidence," said Neil Mackinnon, chief economist at ECU Group.

"The stakes have never been higher," he added.

Markets responded to the disarray by sinking rapidly, following selloffs in Asia. Russia shut down both its stock markets after they fell more than 15 percent. Germany's DAX was down 428.04, or 7.4 percent, at 5,368.99, while France's CAC-40 was 350.74 points, or 8.9 percent, lower at 3,730.01. The CAC's fall in afternoon trading exceeded the record one-day decline of 7.39 percent from Sept. 11, 2001.

The FTSE 100 index of leading British shares was down 269.30 points, or 5.5 percent, at 4,601.04.

Wall Street took its cue from Europe, with the Dow Jones industrials down 430.81 points, or 4.2 percent at 9,907.55 amid growing fears that the credit crisis is spreading around the world.

Meanwhile, the euro slid below the $1.36 mark for the first time in over a year.

The crisis engulfing Europe and its markets has fueled talk of coordinated interest-rate cuts by the world's leading central banks, possibly as early as Monday.

Analysts said they wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the Bank of England instigate the first joint action on interest rates since the September 2001 terrorist attacks on the U.S.

"I think we will see interest-rate cuts this week," said ECU Group's Mackinnon.

So far, the banks have continued to flood the money markets with additional liquidity. On Monday, the ECB injected another $50 billion into money markets while the BoE added another $10 billion. The Swedish Central Bank increased its lending to 100 billion kronor ($14.2 billion).

Additionally, the Fed said that 28-day and 84-day cash loans being made available to banks will be boosted to $150 billion each, effective Monday. Those increases will eventually bring the amounts outstanding under the program to $600 billion.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown planned a call to Merkel to discuss the crisis, and Britain's Treasury chief, Alistair Darling, was due to make a statement to Parliament later. So far, Britain has raised its deposit guarantee only to 50,000 pounds ($87,900), but was under pressure to guarantee all deposits.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy spoke by telephone in the morning with Brown, ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and was due to speak to Merkel later too.

"We need a coordinated response," Sarkozy said during a visit to a Renault car plant in Normandy. Meanwhile European Union finance ministers were set to begin two days of talks on the crisis in Luxembourg.

"This is a very serious situation and one that needs to be addressed," said EU spokesman Johannes Laitenberger.

"Obviously there is a great effort under way. Nobody is suggesting that this is business as usual, but it's true that there is not one single magic bullet that will solve this."

The renewed effort to coordinate a response came after the weekend commitment by Europe's four leading economic powers - Germany, France, Britain and Italy - to work together. That commitment fell apart on Sunday when Merkel announced that all 568 billion euros ($786 billion) worth of private deposits held in Germany would be guaranteed, alongside a new 50 billion euros ($69 billion) bailout package for Hypo Real Estate AG, Germany's second-biggest mortgage lender.

"The EU is liable to be exposed as a fair weather construction, lacking the means of swift response and the hold over its citizens' loyalties to survive really adverse conditions," said Stephen Lewis, an analyst at Monument Securities.

In a joint statement Monday, Merkel and Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck said the guarantee was "an important step at the right moment."

In response to the German move, the Danish Economy Ministry said commercial lenders had agreed to contribute up to 35 billion kroner, or about $6.4 billion over two years to a fund that will help insure account holders from losses. Austrian officials have indicated they might join in as well.

That was followed this afternoon by Iceland's guarantee of all deposits after trading was halted in six bank stocks. Icelandic banks' assets dwarfs the rest of its economy and its currency has fallen sharply in the past week.

The markets are skeptical that Europe's piecemeal response to the crisis so far will work to stem the selling tide.

"The main problem for Europe is that a coordinated response has proved impossible to reach, and the case-by-case approach that has so far been applied has clearly failed to restore confidence," said Dragana Ignjatovic, European analyst at Global Insight.

Meanwhile, Iceland halted trading in six bank stocks while the government drafted a crisis plan. Icelandic banks' assets dwarfs the rest of its economy and its currency has fallen sharply in the past week.

[Rohirrim]

I guess the European "Union" isn't much of a union after all.

[SJ Bronco]

I knew this would happen. The old saying is still true for Europe at least. How goes the US economy, goes the world.

[Meck77]

I'm certainly not going to predict a bottom but at some point there are going to be some real buying opportunities. Baja thinks we should be buying hand tools. I'm thinking I have enough of those.

I'm getting ready to dollar cost average some of my old favorite stocks over the next year or so.

[kappys]

The market that intrests me the most right now is India. They don't have as many export driven liabilities as China, and have continued to grow at a healthy tick. If European and US markets continue to falter, I think China will start to hurt as will the Middle East due to decreasing oil consumption and likely oil prices as well. India stands to benefit from this.

My money is out of the market at the moment, but I'm thinking of getting an India fund.

[Meck77]

If European and US markets continue to falter, I think China will start to hurt as will the Middle East due to decreasing oil consumption and likely oil prices as well.

There is no doubt China will feel it. I went to a Super Walmart for the first time in about 6 months. I've never seen so many people starring at the price tags of products, putting them back on the shelves and simply walking away without putting that product in their basket.

Provided we don't get rocked by a terrorist attack at the turn of the election I'm thinking there will be a nice little Obama bounce in the market but it's too early to say. It would not surprise me in the least to see a real world wide shake up in the near future. I'm not talking banks failing either. It just seems to me that it's been too long since we've heard from our friends over seas.

[baja]

I'm certainly not going to predict a bottom but at some point there are going to be some real buying opportunities. Baja thinks we should be buying hand tools. I'm thinking I have enough of those.

I'm getting ready to dollar cost average some of my old favorite stocks over the next year or so.

Thought you were waiting on the sidelines to buy up peoples tragic real estate loses with your baskets of dollars. What I will enjoy in all this mess is when guys like you wake one morning to the news that your dollars arent worth the paper they are printed on. Then your smugness will leave you like a mud facial in a rain storm.

[baja]

I have been talking to shop owners in Venice all day today and their business is off about 60%

[baja]

Some real deals to be had on hand blown glass art

[Meck77]

Thought you were waiting on the sidelines to buy up peoples tragic real estate loses with your baskets of dollars. What I will enjoy in all this mess is when guys like you wake one morning to the news that your dollars arent worth the paper they are printed on. Then your smugness will leave you like a mud facial in a rain storm.

I may buy some more real estate in due time. Have you slashed the price of your condo down in Mexico to 15k yet? If so I'll cut you a check in Euros or Gold. I also have 19 goats and a bunch of shovels if you prefer?

[baja]

I may buy some more real estate in due time. Have you slashed the price of your condo down in Mexico to 15k yet? If so I'll cut you a check in Euros or Gold. I also have 19 goats and a bunch of shovels if you prefer?

Are they nannys or billys

[alkemical]

Are they nannys or billys

Doesn't matter, they are all gruff

[Rohirrim]

Hey, Baja. Do you think you should be in Europe while all those Muslim immigrants are losing their jobs? It won't be pretty.

[baja]

Fuuck um Im Mexican just ask Meck

[MplsBronco]

I have been talking to shop owners in Venice all day today and their business is off about 60%

Do you live in Venice? I was just there for the first time about 8 months ago. Awesome place.

[baja]

Do you live in Venice? I was just there for the first time about 8 months ago. Awesome place.

No just visiting and I agree a very awesome place. Worlds oldest best and largest shoping mall

I could live here if the world were not in a melt down, so much culture

[alkemical]

Fuuck um Im Mexican just ask Meck

lol

[Meck77]

Are they nannys or billys

Nannys, billys, minnies, big fat meat goats take your pick!

Just one billy and probably 3 or 4 nannys and you'd never need to worry about meat again provided you had the pasture for them. A healthy nanny aka Doe can easily produce triplets almost twice a year. It's amazing how fast they grow.

Mexicans love goat tacos. Ooops did I just use that evil word "mexican" again. Hilarious! BTW you lurkers my girlfriend is a Mexican so hold that race card for someone else. :welcome:

[baja]

Nannys, billys, minnies, big fat meat goats take your pick!

Just one billy and probably 3 or 4 nannys and you'd never need to worry about meat again provided you had the pasture for them. A healthy nanny aka Doe can easily produce triplets almost twice a year. It's amazing how fast they grow.

Mexicans love goat tacos. Ooops did I just use that evil word "mexican" again. Hilarious!

Your gril friend that you say is part Mexican.... Which part?

[Meck77]

Your gril friend that you say is part Mexican.... Which part?

In all the right places. :wiggle:

[Rohirrim]

I love lamb and mint jelly. What's goat taste like?

[Meck77]

I love lamb and mint jelly. What's goat taste like?

If you like lamb you'd like goat. It's less grease and has less fat. That is how everyone I know describes it including these guys.


http://www.devongoat.co.uk/ourmeat.html

[alkemical]

What about this goat:

http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/baphomet(1).bmp

[alkemical]

http://cryptogon.com/?p=4348

Russian Stocks Plunge by Nearly 20 Per Cent, Worst Daily Loss Ever
October 6th, 2008

Via: The Canadian Press:

Russia’s benchmark stock exchange suffered its biggest-ever one-day loss as shares went into free fall on the back of falling oil prices and deepening fears about the global economy despite the passage of a US$700 billion U.S. bank bailout.

Trading on MICEX - the country’s largest index - was shut down three times, closing down 18.6 per cent to 752 points. The benchmark RTS - where trading was halted twice - crashed to its lowest point since August 2005, falling by 19.1 per cent to 866.4 points. It is the most the RTS has fallen in one day.

[alkemical]

http://cryptogon.com/?p=4346

Germany to Allow Domestic Military Deployment
October 6th, 2008

Via: AP:

Germany’s governing coalition partners want to change the constitution to allow for military deployment within the country if needed to combat terrorism, officials said Monday.

The proposal would allow use of the military only if police are overwhelmed and cannot properly respond to a situation themselves.

“It is not to be used generally, but only in very specific cases,” Interior Ministry spokeswoman Daniela-Alexandra Pietsch said.

The center-left Social Democratic Party — which makes up half of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s coalition — had been opposed to the proposal but agreed late Sunday after working out an agreement that includes strict guidelines for domestic deployment.

“We’re talking only about emergency help,” Social Democrat parliamentary leader Peter Struck said. For example, the navy could be called to help in a situation where police maritime patrols were not sufficient, he said.

The proposal will now go to Merkel’s Cabinet and then to parliament for approval.

Given Germany’s militaristic past, many are hesitant to expand the role of soldiers domestically. Currently, the German military can be deployed within the country only in times of war, or to help with emergencies or natural disasters.

Following the announcement of the new proposal, opposition Left Party lawmaker Petra Pau accused the government of seeking to violate a constitutionally dictated division “between army, police and secret services.”

“The military has no role domestically for historic, political, legal and professional reasons,” Pau said.

Germany used Tornado fighter jets to secure airspace during last year’s Group of Eight summit, while troops helped provide support to police controlling demonstrations.

Merkel’s government at the time defended the deployment as necessary to secure the area and provide technical and logistical support for police. But the opposition Greens party criticized it as “a creeping breach of the constitution.”

[Meck77]

Here ya go Baja. This is what one of the Billy's looks like. He's only 4 months old.

You like?

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1963/dsc89222ze3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/dsc89222ze3.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img360/dsc89222ze3.jpg/1/)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_EUROPE_MELTDOWN?SITE=CODER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Baja better start changing those Euros to seeds pretty quick! Ha! I'm going to save the mane some bandwidth. LABF "It's all Bush's fault!".


Starting your thread pre-emptively covering Bush's flank, eh?

Oh, that's right - you're an "independent" nowadays. ;)

[cutthemdown]

I'm with Meck I think the whole world will get a big Bush is gone lift when the election is over.

I have my eyes on some stocks that could be really good buys. Also if homes drop a little more it may be time to jump in and by a rental property. Maybe a little condo or something by the beach here in So california. We have a good college crowd so if the numbers crunch out it could be smart.

[Meck77]

Starting your thread pre-emptively covering Bush's flank, eh?

Oh, that's right - you're an "independent" nowadays. ;)

You just don't matter LABF as you carry ZERO credibility. You can't even answer what you do for a living for crying out loud. Leads me to believe you are hiding something. You aren't much more than an internet personality here.

I know I know. Telling anything personal about yourself is dangerous and crazy!

[cutthemdown]

You just don't matter LABF as you carry ZERO credibility. You are nothing but a fake internet personality. You don't even have enough guts to answer what you do for a living. My gut says you sit around and collect government checks for a living.

Let's try and guess what LABF does for a living:

1- Collects scrap metal and recycles it

[Meck77]

What's unique about this forum is we all come from different backgrounds so it kinda helps understand someones point of view when you know what they do for a living or something general about them. I also think it adds a little credibility to what they are saying when you know some background on them. For all we know LABF could be a paid lobbyist.

[kappys]

You just don't matter LABF as you carry ZERO credibility. You can't even answer what you do for a living for crying out loud. Leads me to believe you are hiding something. You aren't much more than an internet personality here.

I know I know. Telling anything personal about yourself is dangerous and crazy!

LABF has said what he does for a living before. However, I won't disclose it - its really up to him if he wants to.

[cutthemdown]

What's unique about this forum is we all come from different backgrounds so it kinda helps understand someones point of view when you know what they do for a living or something general about them. I also think it adds a little credibility to what they are saying when you know some background on them. For all we know LABF could be a paid lobbyist.

Well i know LABF hates white people that's about it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You just don't matter LABF as you carry ZERO credibility.

Hilarious!

This from some farm league huckster who has carried water for Bush and the GOP for the better part of his existence on this forum - only to claim "independent" status when it becomes impossible to hide Bush's monumental incompetence and corruption?

Thanks for that moment of levity.


You can't even answer what you do for a living for crying out loud.

???

WTF does what I do for a living have to do with topics we debate on a WRP forum?

In any event, unlike yourself, I earn my living the old fashioned way: I create things.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LABF has said what he does for a living before.

Yep.

Just about everyone I can think of who's been around here as long as Meck knows what I do for a living.

Meck is as out of touch with what goes on here as McCain is out of touch with America. Ha!

[ak1971]

Well i know LABF hates white people that's about it.

labf is Louis Farrakhan?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Let's try and guess what LABF does for a living:

1- Collects scrap metal and recycles it

Let's guess cutthemdown's occupation:

1) Sits around all day sniffing model airplane glue in his mom's basement.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Well i know LABF hates white people that's about it.

OK, I'll play:

Cutthemdown is a Satan worshiper and a cannibal. :yayaya:

[TDmvp]

Hilarious!

This from some farm league huckster who has carried water for Bush and the GOP for the better part of his existence on this forum - only to claim "independent" status when it becomes impossible to hide Bush's monumental incompetence and corruption?

Thanks for that moment of levity.



???

WTF does what I do for a living have to do with topics we debate on a WRP forum?

In any event, unlike yourself, I earn my living the old fashioned way: I create things.

I was under the impression that session players just played what they was told and shut the hell up .... least that is how it was when i hired a session bassist when we need one .... so i wouldn't call that creating ...

and L.A. besides our disagreements politically , he is GREAT at what he does for a living ...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I was under the impression that session players just played what they was told and shut the hell up .... least that is how it was when i hired a session bassist when we need one .... so what the hell do you create ....

So you assume that people who make their living doing sessions aren't involved with any other creative projects outside of those sessions?

I know you're smarter than that.

Also, even if you record music that was written by someone else (say, for a film or a TV show) you are still taking part in creating something people want to buy. The composer needs you to do something he can't do himself.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

and L.A. besides our disagreements politically , he is GREAT at what he does for a living ...

Thanks for the props - I appreciate it. :thumbsup:

[TDmvp]

So you assume that people who make their living doing sessions aren't involved with any other creative projects outside of those sessions?

I know you're smarter than that.

Also, even if you record music that was written by someone else (say, for a film or a TV show) you are still taking part in creating something people want to buy. The composer needs you to do something he can't do himself.

just busting your balls L.A. , and totally agree with the bold statement ...
When we needed a bassist our guitarist had wrote all the bass parts so there was no imput on his part .... with session guitarist they are normally free to improve the original idea and spice up something that is weak ....

P.S.
Only reason i even went here btw is i knew it was common knowledge what you did cause i found out from someone mentioning it in a thread ... would never brought it up if was something private ....
And L.A. even tho he may be bat$hit crazy :) is a hella guitarist ....
funny tho most guys i know who are hella guitarist are also bat$hit crazy .
Hmmmmmm i think there may be a connection

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

just busting your balls L.A. , and totally agree with the bold statement ...
When we needed a bassist our guitarist had wrote all the bass parts so there was no imput on his part .... with session guitarist they are normally free to improve the original idea and spice up something that is weak ....

P.S.
Only reason i even went here btw is i knew it was common knowledge what you did cause i found out from someone mentioning it in a thread ... would never brought it up if was something private ....
And L.A. even tho he may be bat$hit crazy :) is a hella guitarist ....
funny tho most guys i know who are hella guitarist are also bat$hit crazy .
Hmmmmmm i think there may be a connection

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

Some sessions are the kind where they put a chart in front of you and you just play the part that's written - but other sessions are the kind where they give you carte blanche to come up with your own parts, solos, etc. In fact, often times you are expected to blow into a studio, listen to a track for the first time, and come up with something that makes the tune happen right there on the spot. If that ain't creativity, then I don't know what is. ;)

[cutthemdown]

So you assume that people who make their living doing sessions aren't involved with any other creative projects outside of those sessions?

I know you're smarter than that.

Also, even if you record music that was written by someone else (say, for a film or a TV show) you are still taking part in creating something people want to buy. The composer needs you to do something he can't do himself.

how about some recordings.

[cutthemdown]

Some sessions are the kind where they put a chart in front of you and you just play the part that's written - but other sessions are the kind where they give you carte blanche to come up with your own parts, solos, etc. In fact, often times you are expected to blow into a studio, listen to a track for the first time, and come up with something that makes the tune happen right there on the spot. If that ain't creativity, then I don't know what is. ;)

are you a really good player or just full of B.S? Do you have jazz chops? Or are you just some hip hop player who thinks he is really good?

Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass etc

blues guys like

Albert King
Albert Collins

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

are you a really good player or just full of B.S? Do you have jazz chops? Or are you just some hip hop player who thinks he is really good?

Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass etc

blues guys like

Albert King
Albert Collins

:rofl:

Like I'd ever get a fair review from you.

BTW, I like to play jazz fusion, but I play just about every style to pay the bills.

As for hip hop - when I was born, Eisenhower was in thw WH, so what do you think? :welcome:

[Meck77]

Ok starving musician. Now I understand where you are coming from.

[cutthemdown]

:rofl:

Like I'd ever get a fair review from you.

BTW, I like to play jazz fusion, but I play just about every style to pay the bills.

As for hip hop - when I was born, Eisenhower was in thw WH, so what do you think? :welcome:

Music is pretty big in my life I doubt I would let politics get in the way of it. Seems to me you're the one that does that.

Jazz Fusion so then Larry Carlton etc.

Just so you know though I would never bag on your music IMO that would be a low blow.

[cutthemdown]

Ok starving musician. Now I understand where you are coming from.

I totally understand him better now. Let's face it though my first memory of him was him calling me a racist. So obviously from there you have nowhere to go but down.

[ak1971]

I totally understand him better now. Let's face it though my first memory of him was him calling me a racist. So obviously from there you have nowhere to go but down.

the douche has called me a pedophile, ass clown, and god knows what else. put him on ignore..much better.

[cutthemdown]

the douche has called me a pedophile, ass clown, and god knows what else. put him on ignore..much better.

I don't ignore anyone. I believe in the free exchange of ideas no matter what. It's the marketplace of ideas that makes things interesting.

If all you do is ignore ignore ignore you will end up never learning anything new IMO.

[TDmvp]

how about some recordings.

I have heard recordings of some stuff L.A. entrusted me to hear .... L.A. is the real deal ... reminds me of Allen Holdsworth
I basically own a studio now ... used to play in bands , now i rent out my stuff from and help people with their demos and stuff , have been in and out of bands for 15 years as a singer ... and trust me L.A. is a great player ...

Roland and Peavey powered ....

[ak1971]

I don't ignore anyone. I believe in the free exchange of ideas no matter what. It's the marketplace of ideas that makes things interesting.

If all you do is ignore ignore ignore you will end up never learning anything new IMO.

actually that douche is the only one I have on ignore. There is no free exchange of ideas with him/her/it. Its only 'I hate bush..la la la'

[TDmvp]

actually that douche is the only one I have on ignore. There is no free exchange of ideas with him/her/it. Its only 'I hate bush..la la la'

and he hates Whitey :)

:poke: L.A.



But yea me Ak1971 , me and L.A. have went at it non stop as well , and i have called him everything i could think of short of Hitler and he says i love the Bush and can't type for $hit .... but i can fight politics and not take it to personal , i "think" L.A. is the same and don't mean anything personal in WRP forums as well ... even tho we all same some pretty vile crap about one another in here , we are all red in the middle ... But L.A. like every GOOD guitarist i have ever known is bat$hit crazy :) ... course as i singer i have been called a name or two , self absorbed , bossy , and overbearing come to mind right of the top of my head LOL , but hey i'm the one who has to stand out front and if it crashes and burns takes the fall hard ... so i like things my way heheh ... "typical LSD" lead singer disorder" ...

[cutthemdown]

I have heard recordings of some stuff L.A. entrusted me to hear .... L.A. is the real deal ... reminds me of Allen Holdsworth
I basically own a studio now ... used to play in bands , now i rent out my stuff from and help people with their demos and stuff , have been in and out of bands for 15 years as a singer ... and trust me L.A. is a great player ...

Roland and Peavey powered ....

He must be. To even be a poor musician in LA you have to be pretty good if music is all you do.

[Rohirrim]

:rofl:

Like I'd ever get a fair review from you.

BTW, I like to play jazz fusion, but I play just about every style to pay the bills.

As for hip hop - when I was born, Eisenhower was in thw WH, so what do you think? :welcome:

Man, you're friggin old. ;)

[ak1971]

and he hates Whitey :)

:poke: L.A.



But yea me Ak1971 , me and L.A. have went at it non stop as well , and i have called him everything i could think of short of Hitler and he says i love the Bush and can't type for $hit .... but i can fight politics and not take it to personal , i "think" L.A. is the same and don't mean anything personal in WRP forums as well ... even tho we all same some pretty vile crap about one another in here , we are all red in the middle ... But L.A. like every GOOD guitarist i have ever known is bat$hit crazy :) ... course as i singer i have been called a name or two , self absorbed , bossy , and overbearing come to mind right of the top of my head LOL , but hey i'm the one who has to stand out front and if it crashes and burns takes the fall hard ... so i like things my way heheh ... "typical LSD" lead singer disorder" ...

I can talk politics also, and not take it personal most of the time..(although TGN did try to stab me with a crableg ;D )... there are actually a few more liberal members here who have turned me on to some different ideas..I'll just keep the bat**** crazy old guitarist on ignore

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

the douche has called me a pedophile, ass clown, and god knows what else. put him on ignore..much better.

You can dish it out but you can't take it, eh?

[ak1971]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_EUROPE_MELTDOWN?SITE=CODER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Baja better start changing those Euros to seeds pretty quick! Ha! I'm going to save the mane some bandwidth. LABF "It's all Bush's fault!".




Oct 6, 11:52 AM EDT

Europe governments strive to avoid bank meltdown

European central banks offer more cash to markets

LONDON (AP) -- European governments struggled to find a coordinated response to the crisis sweeping financial markets Monday, as countries one after the other announced sweeping deposit guarantees on their own to try and shore up their banks. Stock markets plunged.

Iceland and Denmark became the latest countries to declare a deposit guarantee Monday after a startling announcement by German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Sunday that her government would guarantee all private bank savings and CDs held in the euro zone's largest economy. "We want to tell people that their savings are safe," she said.

Faltering confidence in the financial system, undermined by a series of bank bailouts, was precipitating the measures, analysts said, since a failure to match guarantees by Ireland, France, Greece and Sweden could risk a massive fund outflow. Yet the guarantees themselves raised questions about their potential impact on government finances, and showed European governments were unable to find a unified approach despite a weekend summit where they agreed to do just that.

"Governments have no choice but to give the guarantees on deposits, otherwise we will see runs on banks and a complete loss of business and consumer confidence," said Neil Mackinnon, chief economist at ECU Group.

"The stakes have never been higher," he added.

Markets responded to the disarray by sinking rapidly, following selloffs in Asia. Russia shut down both its stock markets after they fell more than 15 percent. Germany's DAX was down 428.04, or 7.4 percent, at 5,368.99, while France's CAC-40 was 350.74 points, or 8.9 percent, lower at 3,730.01. The CAC's fall in afternoon trading exceeded the record one-day decline of 7.39 percent from Sept. 11, 2001.

The FTSE 100 index of leading British shares was down 269.30 points, or 5.5 percent, at 4,601.04.

Wall Street took its cue from Europe, with the Dow Jones industrials down 430.81 points, or 4.2 percent at 9,907.55 amid growing fears that the credit crisis is spreading around the world.

Meanwhile, the euro slid below the $1.36 mark for the first time in over a year.

The crisis engulfing Europe and its markets has fueled talk of coordinated interest-rate cuts by the world's leading central banks, possibly as early as Monday.

Analysts said they wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the Bank of England instigate the first joint action on interest rates since the September 2001 terrorist attacks on the U.S.

"I think we will see interest-rate cuts this week," said ECU Group's Mackinnon.

So far, the banks have continued to flood the money markets with additional liquidity. On Monday, the ECB injected another $50 billion into money markets while the BoE added another $10 billion. The Swedish Central Bank increased its lending to 100 billion kronor ($14.2 billion).

Additionally, the Fed said that 28-day and 84-day cash loans being made available to banks will be boosted to $150 billion each, effective Monday. Those increases will eventually bring the amounts outstanding under the program to $600 billion.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown planned a call to Merkel to discuss the crisis, and Britain's Treasury chief, Alistair Darling, was due to make a statement to Parliament later. So far, Britain has raised its deposit guarantee only to 50,000 pounds ($87,900), but was under pressure to guarantee all deposits.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy spoke by telephone in the morning with Brown, ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and was due to speak to Merkel later too.

"We need a coordinated response," Sarkozy said during a visit to a Renault car plant in Normandy. Meanwhile European Union finance ministers were set to begin two days of talks on the crisis in Luxembourg.

"This is a very serious situation and one that needs to be addressed," said EU spokesman Johannes Laitenberger.

"Obviously there is a great effort under way. Nobody is suggesting that this is business as usual, but it's true that there is not one single magic bullet that will solve this."

The renewed effort to coordinate a response came after the weekend commitment by Europe's four leading economic powers - Germany, France, Britain and Italy - to work together. That commitment fell apart on Sunday when Merkel announced that all 568 billion euros ($786 billion) worth of private deposits held in Germany would be guaranteed, alongside a new 50 billion euros ($69 billion) bailout package for Hypo Real Estate AG, Germany's second-biggest mortgage lender.

"The EU is liable to be exposed as a fair weather construction, lacking the means of swift response and the hold over its citizens' loyalties to survive really adverse conditions," said Stephen Lewis, an analyst at Monument Securities.

In a joint statement Monday, Merkel and Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck said the guarantee was "an important step at the right moment."

In response to the German move, the Danish Economy Ministry said commercial lenders had agreed to contribute up to 35 billion kroner, or about $6.4 billion over two years to a fund that will help insure account holders from losses. Austrian officials have indicated they might join in as well.

That was followed this afternoon by Iceland's guarantee of all deposits after trading was halted in six bank stocks. Icelandic banks' assets dwarfs the rest of its economy and its currency has fallen sharply in the past week.

The markets are skeptical that Europe's piecemeal response to the crisis so far will work to stem the selling tide.

"The main problem for Europe is that a coordinated response has proved impossible to reach, and the case-by-case approach that has so far been applied has clearly failed to restore confidence," said Dragana Ignjatovic, European analyst at Global Insight.

Meanwhile, Iceland halted trading in six bank stocks while the government drafted a crisis plan. Icelandic banks' assets dwarfs the rest of its economy and its currency has fallen sharply in the past week.

back to the story at hand..we will see the collapse of the euro here soon, and the return to the Deutsche Mark, French Franc just give it a couple years.

[baja]

You just don't matter LABF as you carry ZERO credibility. You can't even answer what you do for a living for crying out loud. Leads me to believe you are hiding something. <b> You aren't much more than an internet personality here.<\b>

I know I know. Telling anything personal about yourself is dangerous and crazy!

Or maybe he figures its none of your fuccking business,

Only an idiot gives out his personal information on the Internet, Oh that would be you I forgot.


re bolded: and you are?

[baja]

What's unique about this forum is we all come from different backgrounds so it kinda helps understand someones point of view when you know what they do for a living or something general about them. I also think it adds a little credibility to what they are saying when you know some background on them. For all we know LABF could be a paid lobbyist.

I do know this about you solely from your writing you are full of baloney

[baja]

LABF has said what he does for a living before. However, I won't disclose it - its really up to him if he wants to.

Exactly he has said many times what he does and if Meck knew, shallow person that he is, he would be highly impressed.

Imagine a person saying he needs to know what a person does in order to know what to think of him. Pretentious shiits disclose themselves without even knowing it,

[baja]

Ok starving musician. Now I understand where you are coming from.

This is why he did not tell your punk ass

Slap could bust on someone and make everyone laugh, you, your just a ego driven punk

[baja]

back to the story at hand..we will see the collapse of the euro here soon, and the return to the Deutsche Mark, French Franc just give it a couple years.

Why do you think that, I would like to know.

[Meck77]

It's usually one of the most common questions asked when getting to know someone. You are just a paranoid old man baja. If you haven't noticed the internet has kinda become a popular tool for networking all over the world. LA is a musician. That's great! The reason this is relevant to our discussions here is we argue POLITICS and ECONOMICS here on a daily basis. One's profession ABSOLUTELY shapes ones opinions on the subject you fool. That is why I asked.

The only reason this information is personal to you two is you hide behind that little screen of yours. You guys spew out tens of thousands of posts as if it's gospel yet are afraid to let out the slightest bit of information like what one does for a living.

WHY? Because there is BS behind those posts and you guys must be afraid to get caught behind LIES. Or maybe the BS is so out of control you'd hate for someone to find you I guess. I have nothing to hide and no fear of the internet. Meeting people online is no different then sitting at a bar or meeting them at a tailgate for me.

Oh and speaking of not your *****ing business my question was to LABF not you.

Now that I think about it why did you put some ****ing farewell thread to yourself online as if you were going to be gone to us? Your posts are clogging up this forum like you'd never left to begin with. lmfao! I guess jumping into conversations that has nothing to do with you is more interesting. I'm flattered.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This is why he did not tell your punk ass

Slap could bust on someone and make everyone laugh, you, your just a ego driven punk

QFT. :yep:

[baja]

It's usually one of the most common questions asked when getting to know someone. You are just a paranoid old man baja. If you haven't noticed the internet has kinda become a popular tool for networking all over the world. LA is a musician. That's great! The reason this is relevant to our discussions here is we argue POLITICS and ECONOMICS here on a daily basis. One's profession ABSOLUTELY shapes ones opinions on the subject you fool. That is why I asked.

The only reason this information is personal to you two is you hide behind that little screen of yours. You guys spew out tens of thousands of posts as if it's gospel yet are afraid to let out the slightest bit of information like what one does for a living.

WHY? Because there is BS behind those posts and you guys must be afraid to get caught behind LIES. Or maybe the BS is so out of control you'd hate for someone to find you I guess. I have nothing to hide and no fear of the internet. Meeting people online is no different then sitting at a bar or meeting them at a tailgate for me.

Oh and speaking of not your *****ing business my question was to LABF not you.

Now that I think about it why did you put some ****ing farewell thread to yourself online as if you were going to be gone to us? Your posts are clogging up this forum like you'd never left to begin with. lmfao! I guess jumping into conversations that has nothing to do with you is more interesting. I'm flattered.

Opinions are not lies

[Meck77]

Opinions are not lies

Tough to justify opinions without FACTS.

[cutthemdown]

Why do you think that, I would like to know.

because Europe is in as big of a mess as we are. Once it gets bad nationalism will creep back into the equation. Banks in Europe are in as big if not bigger trouble then ours are.

[cutthemdown]

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gyOtIOqSQZzrnWLgo4L0sbQtS7ig

1 day ago

BERLIN (AFP) — Germany weighed the fallout Sunday from the failure of the country's biggest financial rescue in history, after Europe's top four economic powers pledged a coordinated approach to the credit crunch.

German bank Hypo Real Estate (HRE) dropped the bombshell late Saturday that a planned 35-billion-euro (48-billion-dollar) rescue fell through after the banking consortium involved pulled out of the deal.

The news came as the leaders of France, Germany, Britain and Italy huddled in Paris to pledge a more coordinated approach to prevent the meltdown in US financial markets from engulfing their economies as well.

President Nicolas Sarkozy, who hosted German Chancellor Angela Merkel and prime ministers Gordon Brown of Britain and Silvio Berlusconi of Italy, vowed governments would help European banks and financial institutions in trouble.

But the leaders also called for punishing failing bank executives and urged a rapid meeting of the Group of Eight world industrialised powers to marshall a global response to the financial crisis.

While the four powers put on a united front Saturday, there was no talk of a joint bail-out fund for European banks, on the model of the 700 billion dollar US package approved Friday, after the idea was shot down by London and Berlin.

Merkel told reporters that "each country must take its responsibilities at a national level," and added: "It is important to act in a balanced way, and for countries not to cause harm to each other."

That comment appeared to be aimed at Ireland, which has issued a blanket guarantee to bank depositors without consulting its neighbours.

European Commission head Jose Manuel Barroso expressed relief after the Paris meeting, welcoming the pledge by Europe's main economies to work together as a "concrete step in the right direction," in remarks published Sunday.

"I think we did our maximum in the face of a very grave and serious situation that Europe did not create but of which it is suffering the effects," Barroso told French newspaper Le Parisien.

But Spanish commentators, many stung that their leaders were excluded from the big-four meeting, had a darker take on the meeting.

"Europe gives up on a joint rescue plan against the crisis," wrote the centre-left El Pais, lamenting that the EU "lacks the necessary institutions to respond as the United States has done."

Although the crisis has hit the US harder so far, "in the EU even a minor crisis could be more devastating because of the lack of an institutional framework and political will."

The rescue bid for HRE was the largest in German history and came after the bank was sucked into the global financial turmoil by its inability to refinance debt, one of many high-profile European emergency cases in the past two weeks.

HRE said in a statement that a consortium of German banks taking part in the rescue had "refused to provide liquidity lines."

The property lender said it was in the process of "determining the consequences" of the consortium's withdrawal on various divisions.

Meanwhile private banks and officials from the finance ministry were to gather Sunday for an 11th-hour rescue attempt before markets reopen Monday.

The original plan had comprised an immediate cash injection by private banks and by the European Central Bank, which was to be backed by a 35-million-euro guarantee covered mainly by the German government.

HRE was hobbled by debts incurred by a German-Irish subsidiary, Depfa, which it bought in October 2007, after the international financial crisis emerged with the collapse of the US market for high-risk, or subprime, mortgages.

Depfa specialises in the financing of public works projects.

Despite the assurances from European leaders, one German minister could not resist an alarmist take on the gathering storm.

Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble warned in a magazine interview that the global financial crisis could have political repercussions, noting that Adolf Hitler rose to power following the 1929 Wall Street crash.

"We learned from the worldwide economic crisis of the 1920s (and 1930s) that an economic crisis can result in an incredible threat for all of society," he was quoted as saying in an advance copy of Der Spiegel's Monday edition.

"The consequences of that depression was Adolf Hitler and, indirectly, World War II and Auschwitz."

The current turmoil is a "historic break that will be recounted later in history books. This was also the case on September 11, 2001," he said, referring to the terrorist attacks on the United States.

"We thought we were not as stupid as speculators in the 17th century who traded in Dutch tulip bulbs and annihilated everything," he said. But, he added, "we have been just as stupid."

[cutthemdown]

One of the problems with the EU as you can see is when the crap hits the fan it's hard to work together for a solution. As it gets bad countries will want to not be burdened with another in the union that is dragging them down.

Already countries like Spain are feeling left out.

[alkemical]

I was under the impression that session players just played what they was told and shut the hell up .... least that is how it was when i hired a session bassist when we need one .... so i wouldn't call that creating ...

and L.A. besides our disagreements politically , he is GREAT at what he does for a living ...

No **** - he's pretty bad ass at what he does.

[ak1971]

Why do you think that, I would like to know.

I think cutthemdown summed up my opinion on the situation pretty well. I think as the **** hits the fan, countries will be pushed to get out as they are being dragged down with the perverbial boat.

[ak1971]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4888286.ece