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alkemical
10-06-2008, 08:14 AM
Why are "we" being treated as "terrorists"? Why are "we" guilty before even being suspected? They call "us" paranoid, but look at the Gov'ts actions.....

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081005-new-surveillance-program-will-turn-military-satellites-on-us.html

New surveillance program will turn military satellites on US

By Julian Sanchez | Published: October 05, 2008 - 07:15PM CT

An appropriations bill signed by President Bush last week allows the controversial National Applications Office to begin operating a stringently limited version of a program that would turn military spy satellites on the US, sharing imagery with other federal, state, and local government agencies. The government's own watchdog agency, the Government Accountability Office, has warned in an unpublished report that the more expansive program in the offing lacks adequate safeguards to protect privacy and civil liberties.

For now, the law restricts the NAO to "activities substantially similar" to those carried out by the Civil Applications Committee, an interagency coordinating body formed in 1976 to give civilian agencies access to military satellites for scientific and disaster preparedness purposes, such as "monitoring volcanic activity, environmental and geological changes, hurricanes, and floods." But as a draft charter for the Office makes clear, officials at the Department of Homeland Security hope to branch out from these traditional applications, providing assistance and information to domestic law enforcement agencies.

That doesn't sit well with some members of Congess, who in a sharply worded letter earlier this year expressed concerns that the NAO "raises major issues under the Posse Comitatus Act" barring the military from performing law enforcement duties, and worried the program could be used to "gather domestic intelligence outside the rigorous protections of the law—and, ultimately, to share this intelligence with local law enforcement outside of constitutional parameters."

And as the Wall Street Journal reported last week, the Government Accountability Office appears to share those concerns. In an unpublished analysis—a public version of which may be released in coming weeks—the GAO found that there did not seem to be adequate "assurance that NAO operations will comply with applicable laws and privacy and civil liberties standards," nor sufficient checks and oversight procedures to prevent the misuse of satellite imagery.

The existence of the NAO was first publicly disclosed in press reports last summer, several months after its creation at the behest of the Director of National Intelligence. Following hearings held by the House Committee on Homeland Security, Congress blocked funding for the NAO, pressing DHS for more information about the legal basis for the progam—as well as the privacy safeguard to be put in place. The current appropriations bill permits the NAO to be funded only for the purpose of carrying out the old Civil Applications Committee's functions, pending a certification by the Secretary of Homeland Security that the Office's compliance with the law has been vetted, and provision to the Appropriations Committee of details of how funds will be spent. The bill also directs the Inspector General to provide regular reports—somewhat oddly, to the Appropriations Committee—on the data collected by NAO.

Among the questions raised about the proposed program is whether it runs afoul of the Reconstruction Era statute that makes it a crime to use the armed forces to "execute the laws" within US borders. Tim Sparapani, senior legislative counsel with the American Civil Liberties Union, believes the new initiative to be "a prima facie violation of the Posse Comitatus Act—this is about using a military asset to do domestic law enforcement." If law enforcement or immigration agencies need spy satellites, he argues, they should ask Congress to buy them some, rather than using the powerful eyes in the sky operated by the National Reconaissance Office for foreign-intelligence agencies not bound by domestic privacy constraints. "The military should never be used against the citizenry," he argues. "Even if we're talking about shooting pictures of people instead of shooting people, the principle remains the same."

But Gene Healy, an attorney and scholar at the libertarian Cato Institute, is not so sure. At least since the 70s, says Healy, courts have tended to read the prohibition on using the military to "execute the laws" only as a barrier to "hands-on policing," such as conducting arrests or doing crowd control. That means sending soldiers to physically search a criminal suspects home is out, but loaning expertise or equipment and sharing information may be allowed. During the 2002 hunt for the "DC sniper," he notes, Army aircraft were used in the effort to hunt down the serial killer. "That doesn't mean it's a good policy," says Healy, "I can think of a lot of reasons it's a really bad idea to let soldiers train narcotics officers too, but that doesn't mean either is illegal under the current statute."

And what of Fourth Amendment concerns? Here, Sparapani says, the program enters "uncharted waters." In a pair of 1986 decisions, the Supreme Court ruled that aerial observation by surveillance planes did not count as a Fourth Amendment "search." If you grew your marijuana out in the open, the justices essentially concluded, you could not claim a "reasonable expectation of privacy" even if the crop wasn't visible from the ground. But the court left open the question of whether the same logic would apply in the case of technology more esoteric than an airplane. And in 2001, the court concluded that a search warrant was needed to use infrared scanners to detect the heat signature from an indoor dope-growing operation.

Presumably intelligence satellites have a range of sophisticated scanning equipment that would fall under the latter rule. But even in the case of ordinary image capturing, the high degree of precision of the satellite cameras—by some accounts good enough to read a page of text in a subject's hand—may make spying from space qualitatively different from a plane flyover.

Whatever the courts decide, Sparapani argues that Congress should press DHS to be more forthcoming about how it plans to use the orbiting eyes. "Given this administration," he says, "'trust us' just doesn't work anymore."

Rohirrim
10-06-2008, 08:19 AM
One of Obama's first acts must be the dissolution of the Dept. of Homeland Security. It's nothing more than an umbrella under which all sorts of nefarious, anti-privacy, anti-freedom, government plots have, and will hatch.

alkemical
10-06-2008, 08:21 AM
call me paranoid, that's fine - but man - stuff like this does bother me. This is a greater threat than any "terrorist" IMO.

Infact - doing things like this - JUSTIFIES the conspiracy theories and creates further mistrust.

alkemical
10-10-2008, 07:16 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100703245.html

Md. Police Put Activists' Names On Terror Lists


Police Superintendent Terrence B. Sheridan revealed at a legislative hearing that the surveillance operation, which targeted opponents of the death penalty and the Iraq war, was far more extensive than was known when its existence was disclosed in July.

The department started sending letters of notification Saturday to the activists, inviting them to review their files before they are purged from the databases, Sheridan said.

"The names don't belong in there," he told the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee. "It's as simple as that."

The surveillance took place over 14 months in 2005 and 2006, under the administration of former governor Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. (R). The former state police superintendent who authorized the operation, Thomas E. Hutchins, defended the program in testimony yesterday. Hutchins said the program was a bulwark against potential violence and called the activists "fringe people."

TailgateNut
10-10-2008, 07:21 AM
It's getting "better" by the day. We may have to buy some shiny black boots for the homeland security troops and some armbands for the "suspected terrorists".

alkemical
10-10-2008, 07:25 AM
I love it when i hear people say "Ya, but they do this anyway..."

I don't understand how people just "take it"...

alkemical
10-10-2008, 07:47 AM
http://cryptogon.com/?p=4422

Orwellian U.K. Angers People With Tree Cameras, Snooping Kids
October 10th, 2008

Via: Bloomberg:

Hidden in foliage next to a path in the southeast England seaside town of Hastings are digital cameras. Their target: litterbugs and dog walkers.

The electronic eyes feed images to a monitoring unit, where they’re scanned and stored as evidence to prosecute people who discard garbage or fail to clean up after pets, a spokeswoman for the town council said.

“It’s becoming a bit Big Brother-like,” said Sandra Roberts, 50, a Hastings kiosk manager, invoking George Orwell’s 1949 book “Nineteen Eighty-Four,” about a Britain where authorities pry into all aspects of citizens’ lives.

Local authorities are adopting phone-record logging, e-mail taps and camera surveillance to police such offenses as welfare fraud, unlawful dumping of waste and sick-day fakery. Telecommunications companies are about to join the list of crime monitors. Already, 4.5 million closed-circuit cameras watch public places across Britain, or about 1 camera for every 15 people, the highest ratio in the world.

“There’s too much of it now, all this spying,” said Ivor Quittention, 80, a retired owner of three hardware stores who lives in Hastings. The town’s spokeswoman, who declined to be identified, said spying is the most effective way of dealing with something residents complain about most.

The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, dubbed “the snoopers charter” by London-based civil-rights group Liberty, was passed by the ruling Labour Party in 2000 to legislate methods of surveillance and information gathering. The purpose of the law, known also as Ripa, was to help prevent crime, including terrorism, according to the Home Office.

`Too Much Power’

Initially, only security and intelligence services could invoke the Act’s provisions. In 2003, Parliament extended powers to the 474 local councils in England, Scotland and Wales, as well as to 318 other state bodies, including 11 Royal Parks, the Post Office and Chief Inspector of Schools.

Since then, local authorities have been expanding their use of the provisions to dozens of lesser offenses.

alkemical
10-10-2008, 07:54 AM
http://cryptome.org/eo13475.htm

10 October 2008

[Federal Register: October 10, 2008 (Volume 73, Number 198)]

[Presidential Documents]
[Page 60095-60096]
From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr10oc08-175]



Presidential Documents




__________________________________________________ _________________

Title 3--
The President

[[Page 60095]]

Executive Order 13475 of October 7, 2008


Further Amendments To Executive Orders 12139 And
12949 In Light of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance
Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008

By the authority vested in me as President by the
Constitution and the laws of the United States of
America, including sections 104 and 303 of the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801
et seq.), as amended by the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008 (Public
Law 110-261), it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Section 1-103 of Executive Order 12139 of
May 23, 1979, as amended, is further amended by:

(a) striking ``(7)'' each place it appears and
inserting in lieu thereof ``(6)'';
(b) adding after subsection (h) ``(i) Deputy
Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.''; and
(c) by adding after the sentence that begins ``None
of the above officials . . .'', a new sentence to read
``The requirement of the preceding sentence that the
named official must be appointed by the President with
the advice and consent of the Senate does not apply to
the Deputy Director of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation.''

Sec. 2. Section 3 of Executive Order 12949 of February
9, 1995, as amended, is further amended by:

(a) striking ``(7)'' each place it appears and
inserting in lieu thereof ``(6)'';
(b) striking ``and'' at the end of subsection (g);
(c) striking the period at the end of subsection
(h) and inserting in lieu thereof ``; and'';
(d) adding after subsection (h) ``(i) Deputy
Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.''; and
(e) by adding after the sentence that begins ``None
of the above officials . . .'', a new sentence to read
``The requirement of the preceding sentence that the
named official must be appointed by the President with
the advice and consent of the Senate does not apply to
the Deputy Director of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation.''

[[Page 60096]]

Sec. 3. This order is not intended to, and does not,
create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural,
enforceable at law or in equity, by any party against
the United States, its agencies, instrumentalities, or
entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any
other person.


(Presidential Sig.)

THE WHITE HOUSE,

October 7, 2008.

[FR Doc. E8-24342
Filed 10-9-08; 8:45 am]

Billing code 3195-W9-P

BABronco
10-10-2008, 10:01 AM
See, I don't think they are afraid of us and that is the problem. They know that we won't do anything.

gyldenlove
10-10-2008, 10:21 AM
Serioulsy, would you trust a nation of people that votes for Bush TWICE? For every crazy extremist Arab there has to be 10 crazy extremist Americans. At least the Iraqis or Afghans never got to vote on who controlled their lives, they never had the option to say no thank you, Americans had that option TWICE!

Bob
10-10-2008, 03:50 PM
I think a thread could be started that asks "Why is the Government not afraid of us?"

cutthemdown
10-11-2008, 06:27 PM
One of Obama's first acts must be the dissolution of the Dept. of Homeland Security. It's nothing more than an umbrella under which all sorts of nefarious, anti-privacy, anti-freedom, government plots have, and will hatch.

Will he do that? If he continues this type of thing how upset will the supporters be?

Powerful men love information and that's what these orbiting cameras give you.

I honestly worry about McCain getting in, nominating more conservative Supreme Court Judges and drastically changing the makeup of the court. IMO it's better with a balance of left to right. Up to 3 liberals could be leaving soon. It may be better if Obama makes those choices.

alkemical
10-21-2008, 04:01 PM
http://www.inhomelandsecurity.com/2008/10/drug_czar_calls_marijuana_grow.html

Drug Czar Calls Marijuana Growers Dangerous Terrorists

snowspot66
10-21-2008, 07:49 PM
I can't wait until these ****ers are old and gone. One or two more generations should be all it takes to realize the bull**** about weed from the 60's and 70's is just that. Bull****.

Let people grow it in their homes. Stop spending tax dollars arresting some dumb kid with a join under his car seat.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-21-2008, 07:56 PM
So why is the gov't scared of us?

They're afraid of what might happen if enough of us found out what they're really doing in our name.

W*GS
10-21-2008, 08:00 PM
'Course, LABF being a strong and powerful State kinda guy, why the heck does he complain about gubmint?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-22-2008, 03:28 AM
Looks like W*GS still hasn't resolved those daddy issues.

Maybe someone can recommend a good therapist for him?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-22-2008, 03:41 AM
I can't wait until these ****ers are old and gone. One or two more generations should be all it takes to realize the bull**** about weed from the 60's and 70's is just that. Bull****.


I'm not sure I'd get my hopes up on that account if the Bush Youth on this forum (who are too young to remember the 60s/70s) are any indication.

One of the right's foremost political strategies since the Nixon era has been the continual revival of the 60s culture wars and the exploitation of all the attendant wedge issues.

The neo-cons and the Bush Youth even use the same snarl words their McCarthyist, "love it or leave it" redneck predecessors used in the 60s, e.g., "commies," "pinkos," "hippies," etc.

W*GS
10-22-2008, 05:55 AM
As a socialist, LABF wants gubmint to be Big Mother.

Get off the teat, son.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-22-2008, 08:12 AM
If W*GS were Paul Tagliabue, NFL games would be played with no rules and no refs.

ak1971
10-22-2008, 08:14 AM
If W*GS were Paul Tagliabue, NFL games would be played with no rules and no refs.

If he was Paul Tagliabue he would be retired.

W*GS
10-22-2008, 08:15 AM
If LABF was Roger Goodell, there'd be more refs than players, the rule book would be 10 feet thick, points scored would be shared equally by both teams, the best RBs would be forced to drag anvils behind them, and the ideal game would be a 0-0 tie.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-22-2008, 08:18 AM
Leave it to W*GS' to derail an analogy with a straw man.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-22-2008, 08:22 AM
At any rate, we've had a chance to compare the way the Democrats govern with the way politicians who share W*GS' ideology govern:

The former brought us eight years of peace and widely-shared prosperity while the latter brought us to the brink of economic collapse.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-22-2008, 08:23 AM
If he was Paul Tagliabue he would be retired.

My bad - I meant the dude who succeeded him.

BABronco
10-22-2008, 09:19 AM
At any rate, we've had a chance to compare the way the Democrats govern with the way politicians who share W*GS' ideology govern:

The former brought us eight years of peace and widely-shared prosperity while the latter brought us to the brink of economic collapse.

Hate to get in the middle of this but from what I've read from W*gs posts (recently albeit.. nv really payed attention to him before) Bush and the current crop of republicans have nothing to do with the small government low interference stuff which he now seems to be in favor of.

W*GS
10-22-2008, 09:27 AM
Leave it to W*GS' to derail an analogy with a straw man.

Socialism is all about equality of outcome. As a socialist, you ought to know that.

W*GS
10-22-2008, 09:28 AM
At any rate, we've had a chance to compare the way the Democrats govern with the way politicians who share W*GS' ideology govern:

The former brought us eight years of peace and widely-shared prosperity while the latter brought us to the brink of economic collapse.

Leave it to LABF to deflect with a straw man.

No politician shares my ideology, son.

SJ Bronco
10-22-2008, 09:31 AM
Why does every thread die with W*gs and LABF getting into pissing matches? it's getting kinda old. I think we need to lock you two in your own B*tch and moan thread while the rest of use discuss things. DON'T MAKE ME PULL THIS CAR OVER!

alkemical
10-22-2008, 10:50 AM
Wags did really good for a while, and he actually has gotten better at actually making an argument instead of just arguing...but everyone has their limit.

c_lazy_r
10-22-2008, 11:02 AM
What they (W*gs & LABF) don't realize is that this type of infringement has NOTHING to do with political parties.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-22-2008, 11:14 AM
Hate to get in the middle of this but from what I've read from W*gs posts (recently albeit.. nv really payed attention to him before) Bush and the current crop of republicans have nothing to do with the small government low interference stuff which he now seems to be in favor of.

Unlike the Busheviks, he may favor the small government part of the equation, but he has definitely been a deregualtion crusader just like every republican since the Reagan revolution.

alkemical
11-05-2008, 05:26 AM
http://coloradoindependent.com/13321/elite-combat-brigade-for-homeland-security-missions-raises-ire-of-aclu

In the next three years the military plans to activate and train an estimated 4,700 service members for specialized domestic operations, according to Air Force Gen. Gene Renuart, commander of U.S. Northern Command, which was created in 2002 for homeland defense missions.

The comments, made at the annual National Homeland Defense and Security Symposium in Colorado Springs last week, reveal more details about the recent stationing of active military personnel inside United States borders for what officials say is a mission centering around responding to catastrophic emergencies.

In September the Army Times reported that the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team — a unit based in Fort Stewart, Ga., that most recently spent 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle gear — would be put under the control of Northern Command, located on Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs.