New Plan vs. Old Plan?

[defenseman]

Defazio (D) from oregon and Kaptur (D) from ohio, just layed on the table a plan that just may work. And ZERO, taxpayer dollars are used. Hats off to them and second, just like the eighties, regulation and targeting the "suspect" loans is the key to the whole thing. It may work guys, take a look when it pops up on the net. Again, hats off to these two dems for finding a way to possibly get it done w/o screwing the american taxpayer...dman

*Caught it on CNN, Lou dobbs.

[TheDave]

Could you give us a couple of bullet points?

[frerottenextelway]

Defazio (D) from oregon and Kaptur (D) from ohio, just layed on the table a plan that just may work. And ZERO, taxpayer dollars are used. Hats off to them and second, just like the eighties, regulation and targeting the "suspect" loans is the key to the whole thing. It may work guys, take a look when it pops up on the net. Again, hats off to these two dems for finding a way to possibly get it done w/o screwing the american taxpayer...dman

*Caught it on CNN, Lou dobbs.

It is the Congressional Progressive Caucus that is writing the plan. If this gets through, it's pretty much death of the Republican Party.

[defenseman]

It is the Congressional Progressive Caucus that is writing the plan. If this gets through, it's pretty much death of the Republican Party.

Those two came up with it, they should get credit for it..dman

[cutthemdown]

So you are all for a new plan that you don't even know what it is yet?

I'll wait to see what it will be. I read the main part of it is to pass the 61 billion stimulus package the repubs in house just shot down.

I'm very skeptical of any plan that supposedly doesn't cost us anything.

Sounds too good to be true IMO.

[cutthemdown]

Could you give us a couple of bullet points?

one is to pass the 61 billion package repubs just shot down.

I imagine this bill is going to be a plan to make banks to buy insurance on the bad assets from the govt. It won't work but who knows maybe these guys have a knock it out of the ball park plan.

Remember if banks dont like the plan the will just fail and let FED take them over, the system is already set up to make us pay for that.

Also I'm sure this new plan raises the insurance on peoples money, and maybe adds some other type of retirement accounts to the FDIC insurance.

Also it prob has a ton more money for unemployment.

Also prob has a provision to let judges re-write mortgages.

IMO if it has those things it won't pass.

[defenseman]

one is to pass the 61 billion package repubs just shot down.

I imagine this bill is going to be a plan to make banks to buy insurance on the bad assets from the govt. It won't work but who knows maybe these guys have a knock it out of the ball park plan.

Remember if banks dont like the plan the will just fail and let FED take them over, the system is already set up to make us pay for that.

Also I'm sure this new plan raises the insurance on peoples money, and maybe adds some other type of retirement accounts to the FDIC insurance.

Also it prob has a ton more money for unemployment.

Also prob has a provision to let judges re-write mortgages.

IMO if it has those things it won't pass.

Not quite, it's similar to the bailout held in the eighties with the savings and loans however, taxpayers aren't as exposed.....I'm tight for time right now....I'm thinking Lou Dobbs will have it on his website...in any case, looks like the senate is trying to push their end of the deal through tomorrow so it appears all for not..dman

[frerottenextelway]

Those two came up with it, they should get credit for it..dman

It's Rep. Peter DeFazio's (OR-04) plan with Rep. Kaptur (OH-09), Rep. Scott (VA-03), Rep. Cummings (MD-07), Rep. Doggett (TX-25), Rep. Holt (NJ-12), Rep. Edwards (MD-04) and Rep. Hirono (HI-02), all of the Congressional Progressive Caucus working on it.

I'm just saying with the GOP bill failing in the House because of the GOP voted it down, if the Congressional Progressive Caucus comes to the rescue on this issue at this point in the elections -- with the GOP already on the ropes -- it's over for a generation for the Republican Party. I would hate to be a House thug having to vote on that.

[defenseman]

It's Rep. Peter DeFazio's (OR-04) plan with Rep. Kaptur (OH-09), Rep. Scott (VA-03), Rep. Cummings (MD-07), Rep. Doggett (TX-25), Rep. Holt (NJ-12), Rep. Edwards (MD-04) and Rep. Hirono (HI-02), all of the Congressional Progressive Caucus working on it.

I'm just saying with the GOP bill failing in the House because of the GOP voted it down, if the Congressional Progressive Caucus comes to the rescue on this issue at this point in the elections -- with the GOP already on the ropes -- it's over for a generation for the Republican Party. I would hate to be a House thug having to vote on that.

Your opinion only, trust me, many in this country are ready to can every democrat they can vote out...........you haven't cornered the market on a partisan approach making some pretty outrageous assumptions that the "GOP" is on the ropes, it could be they are both on the ropes, I for one am tired of both of the tribes presently in DC. They both need to bury the hatchet, in each others heads and take eachother out of their own misery would work for me at this point. Pelosi though, she gets it first, then work their way down...dman

*You listen, to your pals in the media and ASSUME everyone believes what they dish, most INFORMED viewers now know them for what they are, OBAMAMEDIA, ready to kiss his A$$ at the annointed one's request, never a disparaging word. Again, obviously, you need to take your nose out of his backside and listen and watch, you are being scammed by the media and the empty suit obama,oops, sorry apollo obama jesus,,,the chosen one, yeah right, not a chance in hell ........best scam artist I've seen in along time and I've seen alot. God forbid he gets elected, and someone attacks us, he'll make sure the message machine is on a 3 AM, then, he'll phone it in. Probably off getting a manicure....

[Rigs11]

Where's that poll about who would lose it first if obama won. Dmans going apeshetLOL

[BroncoInferno]

Thank you for that report from Mars, Dman.

[TailgateNut]

Your opinion only, trust me, many in this country are ready to can every democrat they can vote out...........you haven't cornered the market on a partisan approach making some pretty outrageous assumptions that the "GOP" is on the ropes, it could be they are both on the ropes, I for one am tired of both of the tribes presently in DC. They both need to bury the hatchet, in each others heads and take eachother out of their own misery would work for me at this point. Pelosi though, she gets it first, then work their way down...dman

*You listen, to your pals in the media and ASSUME everyone believes what they dish, most INFORMED viewers now know them for what they are, OBAMAMEDIA, ready to kiss his A$$ at the annointed one's request, never a disparaging word. Again, obviously, you need to take your nose out of his backside and listen and watch, you are being scammed by the media and the empty suit obama,oops, sorry apollo obama jesus,,,the chosen one, yeah right, not a chance in hell ........best scam artist I've seen in along time and I've seen alot. God forbid he gets elected, and someone attacks us, he'll make sure the message machine is on a 3 AM, then, he'll phone it in. Probably off getting a manicure....


Your racism is becoming more evident with each post, more than your sexism, which you exhibited when Hillary was still in the game.

[kappys]

It's Rep. Peter DeFazio's (OR-04) plan with Rep. Kaptur (OH-09), Rep. Scott (VA-03), Rep. Cummings (MD-07), Rep. Doggett (TX-25), Rep. Holt (NJ-12), Rep. Edwards (MD-04) and Rep. Hirono (HI-02), all of the Congressional Progressive Caucus working on it.

I'm just saying with the GOP bill failing in the House because of the GOP voted it down, if the Congressional Progressive Caucus comes to the rescue on this issue at this point in the elections -- with the GOP already on the ropes -- it's over for a generation for the Republican Party. I would hate to be a House thug having to vote on that.

I doubt that. Congressional approval was at 7% before this mess, wonder what it is now?

Those junior democrats who are 1st termers having managed to win often narrow victories in areas that were frustrated with the previous Republican congress are the ones on the ropes here. People do not like this bailout - it is an enormous issue. Every one of those democrats that votes for it runs a real chance of being kicked out of office in 1 month.

[TailgateNut]

Every one of those democrats that votes for it runs a real chance of being kicked out of office in 1 month.


....and their front yard foliage will be adorned with toilet paper.;D

[Rohirrim]

Dman strikes me as one of those old men who not only yells at kids to get off his lawn, but sets his dogs loose on them as well. ;D

[TailgateNut]

Dman strikes me as one of those old men who not only yells at kids to get off his lawn, but sets his dogs loose on them as well. ;D


That's what happens when you live in a pressurized sardine can for twenty + years. It's all about "air bubbles", and "oxygen depletion"!

[Rohirrim]

That's what happens when you live in a pressurized sardine can for twenty + years. It's all about "air bubbles", and "oxygen depletion"!

Is that where they get the word "oxymoron?"

[Garcia Bronco]

I doubt that. Congressional approval was at 7% before this mess, wonder what it is now?

Those junior democrats who are 1st termers having managed to win often narrow victories in areas that were frustrated with the previous Republican congress are the ones on the ropes here. People do not like this bailout - it is an enormous issue. Every one of those democrats that votes for it runs a real chance of being kicked out of office in 1 month.

Which is exactly why Mark Udall voted it down. HE said it was bad fo the taxpayers. What about this would ever be good for the tax payers?

[Arkie]

Let me be very clear; NO RESCUE PACKAGE OR ACTION WILL BE SUFFICIENT. $700 billion might help for a few days or weeks but not much longer.

Let us put the package of $700 billion in proportion:


Only last week $ 1 trillion of liquidity was injected into the US financial system. Thus in one week more money was injected than the proposed rescue. US and other central banks are injecting at least hundreds of billions of dollars every week and the bank system is still totally paralyzed. LIBOR (inter-bank) rates are at record highs and banks refuse to lend to each other.

Banks have loan books in the dollar trillions against assets which are falling precipitously in value. The banks, with the help of central banks, have in the last decade flooded the market with easy credit that have inflated all asset values to totally unsustainable levels. This bubble is now bursting and the banks will over the next year or two sit on virtually worthless and unrealizable collateral with $ trillions in losses.

The crisis is currently focusing on the financial system but soon “Main-Street” (consumers) will be an additional massive problem. Personal loans, credit card loans, car loans etc are at levels which most consumers had problems repaying in good times. The increase in food and energy prices combined with higher mortgage rates and falling unemployment will lead to bank losses of $ hundreds of billions.

But all of the above is dwarfed by the derivatives outstanding of $ 1 quadrillion. This figure is so big that it is impossible to fathom. When a financial institution fails it is the gross amount that is due. A major part of these derivatives is worthless although only minimal write-downs have been made. Authorities have allowed the derivatives to be marked to model rather than to market. But at some point in the not too distant future the derivatives bubble is likely to burst. It is doubtful that the governments around the world will have time to print $ 1 quadrillion but even if they did it would obviously be worthless money.

[frerottenextelway]

Your opinion only, trust me, many in this country are ready to can every democrat they can vote out...........you haven't cornered the market on a partisan approach making some pretty outrageous assumptions that the "GOP" is on the ropes, it could be they are both on the ropes, I for one am tired of both of the tribes presently in DC. They both need to bury the hatchet, in each others heads and take eachother out of their own misery would work for me at this point. Pelosi though, she gets it first, then work their way down...dman

*You listen, to your pals in the media and ASSUME everyone believes what they dish, most INFORMED viewers now know them for what they are, OBAMAMEDIA, ready to kiss his A$$ at the annointed one's request, never a disparaging word. Again, obviously, you need to take your nose out of his backside and listen and watch, you are being scammed by the media and the empty suit obama,oops, sorry apollo obama jesus,,,the chosen one, yeah right, not a chance in hell ........best scam artist I've seen in along time and I've seen alot. God forbid he gets elected, and someone attacks us, he'll make sure the message machine is on a 3 AM, then, he'll phone it in. Probably off getting a manicure....

Lolz. Let's break down the Senate since that's the easiest. The Dems are virtually guarenteed to pick up seats in VA, CO, and NM. They'll likely pick up seats in NH and AK. OR, MN, and NC are all red seats that are toss-ups in November. KY and MS are possible pick-ups too, although they lean towards the incumbent.

There. Is. Not. A. Single. Dem. Senate. Seat. In. Jeopardy. Dare you, name 1.

The beautiful part is, the 2010 elections is when the GOP puts a slew of their weakest incumbents up. It's not until 2012 that the GOP has any hope of getting momentum there.

And the House ain't a whole lot better for the thugs. They went 0 for 3 earlier this year in special elections on what used to be safe seats. Or maybe the librul media just made that up.

[ScottXray]

Lolz. Let's break down the Senate since that's the easiest. The Dems are virtually guarenteed to pick up seats in VA, CO, and NM. They'll likely pick up seats in NH and AK. OR, MN, and NC are all red seats that are toss-ups in November. KY and MS are possible pick-ups too, although they lean towards the incumbent.

There. Is. Not. A. Single. Dem. Senate. Seat. In. Jeopardy. Dare you, name 1.

The beautiful part is, the 2010 elections is when the GOP puts a slew of their weakest incumbents up. It's not until 2012 that the GOP has any hope of getting momentum there.

And the House ain't a whole lot better for the thugs. They went 0 for 3 earlier this year in special elections on what used to be safe seats. Or maybe the librul media just made that up.

Dman has a point in that this has pissed off the voters so much that a lot of people will vote third party or sit out on the Congressional and Senate votes.

some Maybe even on President.
That could provide a game changer in some races. However , I think the anger will be distributed about evenly, and most will continue to vote as they have, hoping that the congress is right in whatever they end up doing .

Even if this happens few if any races will be impacted enough to put Independents actually into office. Not enough time for that to occur anymore.

It could change if things go to hell real fast though.

[Bronco Bob]

I doubt that. Congressional approval was at 7% before this mess, wonder what it is now?



According to the Real Clear Politics average in a generic ballot people
favor the Democrats over the Republicans by 48.2% to 39.6%.




Those junior democrats who are 1st termers having managed to win often narrow victories in areas that were frustrated with the previous Republican congress are the ones on the ropes here. People do not like this bailout - it is an enormous issue. Every one of those democrats that votes for it runs a real chance of being kicked out of office in 1 month.

According to RCP, there are 22 GOP seats that either lean Democrat or are a toss-up.

This compares with only 10 Democratic seats that either lean GOP or are a toss-up.

So the Democrats could have a net gain of 10 to 12 seats this election.

[baja]

But all of the above is dwarfed by the derivatives outstanding of $ 1 quadrillion. This figure is so big that it is impossible to fathom.
[COLOR="Red"]


[COLOR="red"]B Fuucking I fuuking N G O

[Arkie]

One Quadrillion is like a $700 billion bailout plan each and every single day for the next four years. Those derivatives won't magically go away. We can't sweep them under a rug.

One Quadrillion seconds equals 32 million years.

[TheDave]

But all of the above is dwarfed by the derivatives outstanding of $ 1 quadrillion. This figure is so big that it is impossible to fathom.
[COLOR="Red"]


[COLOR="red"]B Fuucking I fuuking N G O

Thats the notional value... Keep in mind Derivatives are basically a zero sum gain. One side wins one side loses. The nominal value is all bets on all sides of a particular action. The actual value is a fraction of that.

Keep an eye on the lehman auction on October 6th. Lehman was leveraged with trillions of dollars in derivatives. If this auction goes off as planned the "Derivative Fear" can be put to bed.

[frerottenextelway]

Dman has a point in that this has pissed off the voters so much that a lot of people will vote third party or sit out on the Congressional and Senate votes.

some Maybe even on President.
That could provide a game changer in some races. However , I think the anger will be distributed about evenly, and most will continue to vote as they have, hoping that the congress is right in whatever they end up doing .

Even if this happens few if any races will be impacted enough to put Independents actually into office. Not enough time for that to occur anymore.

It could change if things go to hell real fast though.

I'll give Dman or anyone else 10:1 odds the Dems end up with more Senate seats than they went in with. There's a not single Dem up for election that is in trouble - which is why I guess not a single one has or will be named here - (although I named 10 that could or will flip blue).