Jimmy Johnson Style Defense!!!

[Broncoman13]

What's the down side at this point? Some have suggested that this is the "plan" but we don't want to show it too early for fear of teams making adjustments like in 2005. I say BS! Put some aggressive blitz packages in and do it now! The Eagles are very similar to the Broncos talent wise. Juqua Parker is NOT better than Elvis Dumervil. He is a 6'2 250lb DE that is greatly benefiting from OLines being confused. SERIOUSLY, what do we have to lose if we blitz 30 times a game? We could what, give up 30 points per game? At least we'd get a turnover or two per game!

[watermock]

Shanahan's head is too big to hire big name coach.

[TheReverend]

What's the down side at this point? Some have suggested that this is the "plan" but we don't want to show it too early for fear of teams making adjustments like in 2005. I say BS! Put some aggressive blitz packages in and do it now! The Eagles are very similar to the Broncos talent wise. Juqua Parker is NOT better than Elvis Dumervil. He is a 6'2 250lb DE that is greatly benefiting from OLines being confused. SERIOUSLY, what do we have to lose if we blitz 30 times a game? We could what, give up 30 points per game? At least we'd get a turnover or two per game!

You're exactly right. The majority of sacks today come from the unblocked man from missed assignments caused by confusion and overloads. Denver's not really attempting either aside from that 3-4 which worked for 5 plays before being picked apart and then completely destroyed by LJ's 60+ yard run. Overloads aren't coming at all aside from an occasional cornerback blitz which can only LOOSELY be considered "overload".

[Broncoman13]

The Eagles Defense has two pieces that the Broncos are missing which are a stud Safety and a stud Mike LB. Still, the drop-off between Nate Webster and Stewart Bradley is not huge. The difference in an aging Dawkins and McCree is a little larger, but not insurmountable. Both are better players b/c of a better system.

I'm sure some will come back and say they give up points... I'm OKAY with that! We give up plenty of points and with our offense will find ways to win a lot of games anyhow. Imagine giving this offense the ball 2 or 3 more possessions per game!

WHY doesn't Shanny ever get this message? We're not close to improving this defense. Time to sell out and bring the mad blitz package. If we give up 30 points and get 3 turnovers and 3 sacks per game... it WILL be an improvement over what we have now!

[TheReverend]

The Eagles Defense has two pieces that the Broncos are missing which are a stud Safety and a stud Mike LB. Still, the drop-off between Nate Webster and Stewart Bradley is not huge. The difference in an aging Dawkins and McCree is a little larger, but not insurmountable. Both are better players b/c of a better system.

I'm sure some will come back and say they give up points... I'm OKAY with that! We give up plenty of points and with our offense will find ways to win a lot of games anyhow. Imagine giving this offense the ball 2 or 3 more possessions per game!

WHY doesn't Shanny ever get this message? We're not close to improving this defense. Time to sell out and bring the mad blitz package. If we give up 30 points and get 3 turnovers and 3 sacks per game... it WILL be an improvement over what we have now!

At this point you can call Dawkins and McCree a wash. However, Quentin Mikell is playing much better and head and shoulders above Manuel.

[Broncoman13]

Shanahan's head is too big to hire big name coach.

Larry Coyer wasn't a big name either though. We put a lot of pressure via blitz in 2005. What is the downside at this point? If Slowik isn't capable of drawing up some blitz packages we are in BIG trouble with him!

Sadly, the Giants did it right. They brought in somebody that learned from Jimmy Johnson and it took them two regular season games (in '07) to get "right". Now look at them! He runs a 4-3 like most teams run their 3-4! Seriously, Bunkley and Patterson have more sacks this year than ever before and Jimmy Johnson, who has always been blitz happy is blitzing more than ever before. See the correlation?

[Broncoman13]

At this point you can call Dawkins and McCree a wash. However, Quentin Mikell is playing much better and head and shoulders above Manuel.

So what are we lacking in terms of personnel... besides a HC that gives the green light?

[fontaine]

This is stupid.

We did blitz and when it happened Huard backpeddled to just avoid the blitzers and lob intermediate passes to the sidelines to Bowe and completed a few.

Huard was intelligent enough to know that with the blitz he just has to go to his biggest target and aim at the sidelines to avoid the int.

Also, your blitz is effective if you use it as shock rather than just blitzing continiously, and you have to have cat quick big guys (which we don't).

San Diego and other teams blitz 260lb tweeners that hammer the crap out of QBs. We blitz McCree and he got roadblocked and passed out.

[TheReverend]

So what are we lacking in terms of personnel... besides a HC that gives the green light?

People capable of playing the middle of the field. Safeties who can make a tackle and provide intermediate coverage/break-up a pass. A LARGE chunk of the passing yards gained against us have been in quick dumpoff plays designed for YAC and we canNOT flow to the ball and make the stop within an acceptable distance. My wish list also includes a middle linebacker who can fill a ****ing gap consistently. A willingness to cover a top receiver with a superior coverage player instead of a 4th round rookie in obvious passing downs.

We had a play where McCree lined up back... then before the snap came sprint up and blitzed. It didn't work, but I want to see more of it. Throw some right before the snap confusion and bring SOMETHING.

[Don Flamenco]

I'm convinced our LBs cant blitz worth ****. The best blitzer we had these past recent years was Lynch. It was about the only thing he did well.

[dreasher54]

at this point i wish lynch had stayed he couldnt be much worse but he could blitz and stop the run

[jmz313]

I'm not sure what they can/should do but they need to start by pressuring passers. 80% completion percentage against out D is really hillarious.

[TheReverend]

I'm not sure what they can/should do but they need to start by pressuring passers. 80% completion percentage against out D is really hillarious.

No one is covering intermediate zones!

It's 3 step drop, throw to first read, completion! Or just a designed dump off to the RB like NO brought all day. Unless we get a free man, pressure is nearly impossible to get on quick hit throws like we've been getting gashed with.

[Lolad]

Has anybody ever noticed that when our LB's do blitz they don't come in with that mean streak to knock the FB or RB over and get to the QB. They always get jammed at the line and get stood up ALWAYS!

[jmz313]

No one is covering intermediate zones!

It's 3 step drop, throw to first read, completion! Or just a designed dump off to the RB like NO brought all day. Unless we get a free man, pressure is nearly impossible to get on quick hit throws like we've been getting gashed with.

That was NO. Vs SD rivers sat back all day and looked at all his targets twice.

The solution against teams like NO with good WCO / Timing is the D line getting in lanes. But since Broncos player still have difficulties with basics like tackling I doubt I can hope for instincts to be taught.

PLease, can someone teach doom some DE moves. same crap all day and unless a snap goes over teh qb's head he ain;t gonna sniff the ball.

[BroncoBen]

Has anybody ever noticed that when our LB's do blitz they don't come in with that mean streak to knock the FB or RB over and get to the QB. They always get jammed at the line and get stood up ALWAYS!

That is what I am seeing.. and it frustrates the heck out of me. I don't understand why on the blitz the players don't fight more and push. They tend to get stood up and they stop pushing. Why..? are they waiting for someone else to make something happen..? maybe flush the QB their way..?

[jmz313]

Has anybody ever noticed that when our LB's do blitz they don't come in with that mean streak to knock the FB or RB over and get to the QB. They always get jammed at the line and get stood up ALWAYS!

Lack or heart/passion. they're going through the motions.

[socalorado]

LO!L! I love the desperate attempts at trying to re-organize the deck chairs on the Titanic!
*sighs*

This ship has sunk, and a total rebuild of the unit needs to be addressed.
DEN's defense needs at least 5! impact, solid players. Draft em, trade for em, or go FA, whaterever, they still NEED em. period.

MLB-BAD!
DT-yep!
DE-REAL BAD!
S- 2 NEW ONES!

[footstepsfrom#27]

The talent sucks.
The coaching sucks.
The scheme sucks.
The HC is clueless about D.

Add that up and it's more of the same we've seen for a decade. It's the same story with special teams. Change the players...change the coaches...change the schemes...they still blow.

I'd love to believe otherwise but I think we're stuck with this till Shanny hangs it up.

[oubronco]

the biggest difference I see when watching the Eagles vs. Broncos is their guy's are almost ALWAYS around the ball and when Denver's D is out there they all look lost and are chasing the ball and running into each other it's almost comical. I hate this soft zone prevent D they play but I mean even playing zone shouldn't the point be to keep everything in front of you? these guy's get beat in everyway they can be beat and take horrible angles to the ball carrier **** they teach you that **** in peewee ball

[footstepsfrom#27]

the biggest difference I see when watching the Eagles vs. Broncos is their guy's are almost ALWAYS around the ball and when Denver's D is out there they all look lost and are chasing the ball and running into each other it's almost comical. I hate this soft zone prevent D they play but I mean even playing zone shouldn't the point be to keep everything in front of you? these guy's get beat in everyway they can be beat and take horrible angles to the ball carrier **** they teach you that **** in peewee ball
Maybe we can find some peewee players who we can plug in then.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/104/257803782_c4e2b5b2c8.jpg?v=0

[oubronco]

Maybe we can find some peewee players who we can plug in then.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/104/257803782_c4e2b5b2c8.jpg?v=0

they already look like future Broncos trailing the play ROFL!

[barryr]

Heck, even with the Broncos go to a 3 man front and drop 8 guys, they still can't seem to cover the 2-3 receivers out in the pass pattern. This defense just looks like it is just there to take up space and just wait for the other teams' offense to shoot itself in the foot. If that doesn't happen, well, we see the results.

[TheReverend]

Heck, even with the Broncos go to a 3 man front and drop 8 guys, they still can't seem to cover the 2-3 receivers out in the pass pattern. This defense just looks like it is just there to take up space and just wait for the other teams' offense to shoot itself in the foot. If that doesn't happen, well, we see the results.

That's what it's been for years.

Sadly, waiting for teams to challenge Champ in the red-zone just doesn't happen anymore.

10 picks a few years back... the majority IN THE RED ZONE. Take those away and what do we have? Answer: This defense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

they already look like future Broncos trailing the play ROFL!
:spit:

[kappys]

We have coverage linebackers. Probably the only one that can blitz is Winborn - and he's a marginal LB at best.

Good blitzing doesn't just happen - you need the right players and practice to get it right.

[Haroldthebarrel]

I wish we would have put in Niko Kotuvides at MLB.
When I watch the game, the number of mental mistakes are just staggering.
All of our lbs make mental mistakes. DJ does as well, but he is getting better, and he can also cover up for it with athleticism.

When organizations are in crisis mode and they bring in an expert to remedy it, the solution almost always is to make it simpler.
That's where I would start. Make it simpler, and have mental mistakes at a minimum. When you get better at that then you can complicate schemes.
At this point I would not do a Jimmy Johnson II scheme as we would probably just make more mistakes.
Remember, all we need is a defense that is 10-15 and we could probably get by with a 15-20 top defense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I wish we would have put in Niko Kotuvides at MLB.
When I watch the game, the number of mental mistakes are just staggering.
All of our lbs make mental mistakes. DJ does as well, but he is getting better, and he can also cover up for it with athleticism.

When organizations are in crisis mode and they bring in an expert to remedy it, the solution almost always is to make it simpler.
That's where I would start. Make it simpler, and have mental mistakes at a minimum. When you get better at that then you can complicate schemes.
At this point I would not do a Jimmy Johnson II scheme as we would probably just make more mistakes.
Remember, all we need is a defense that is 10-15 and we could probably get by with a 15-20 top defense.
Need for what? That thinking will earn us a 1st round playoff exit. Somebody else said this also...but consider this; we share this division with a team that's balanced and strong on BOTH sides of the ball. Having a 15-20th ranked D will NOT get us the division, and if we want to get back to the Superbowl we need the division first. No this team needs more than Niko Kotuvides and it needs more than a few guys who can play. We need an entire overhaul, from the coaching philosophy to the draft. Shanny is the only one who can do that. I'm not holding my breath.

[Haroldthebarrel]

Need for what? That thinking will earn us a 1st round playoff exit. Somebody else said this also...but consider this; we share this division with a team that's balanced and strong on BOTH sides of the ball. Having a 15-20th ranked D will NOT get us the division, and if we want to get back to the Superbowl we need the division first. No this team needs more than Niko Kotuvides and it needs more than a few guys who can play. We need an entire overhaul, from the coaching philosophy to the draft. Shanny is the only one who can do that. I'm not holding my breath.

I agree with you that we need more. But right now you have to set the bar at one point. And I would say that we make too many mistakes that I would put in a more complex system, leading to bigger plays if we miss.
We need to start doing something now and I propose making it simpler.

Secondly, when I talk about a 10-15 defense that is a defense that traditionally gives up about 20 points a game. With that we would have put three games out of their reach as well as being in the KC game. (it wouldn't necessarily mean so since every game has a life on its own but you get the point). But it is a start.

Thirdly, I totally agree with you about better talent. I have said for years now that we should do much more about the defensive line in particular.
That is fully on Shanahan since we know they have targeted amongst others Kris Jenkins, T. Suggs, J. Kearse, T. Harris, and almost traded for Justin Tuck(all this on top of my head)
so it is not like we cannot find talent, we are just not committed to pay up for it.

And finally, what we really lack on the defensive coaching stand point is consistency and longevity. It would seem like some teams like the Colts, Patriots, Chargers, Bears, Eagles to name a few are consistently pretty good on defense since they have a scheme for years and thus know what they want in a player and how the player will fit in their system.
Slowik, as I suspected, might not be a good coordinator, but we will most likely be in this calamity time and time again unless we have a system and coordinator that lasts for some years. IMHO too many teams shift coordinators often and replace him with one who has a different system. That means a lot of good players isn't adaptable and so these guys have to go. That usually creates at least a two years window for some decent, mentally mistake free window. (Look at the Jets and how many good players they have let go since they so often change systems.)

[Cito Pelon]

Has anybody ever noticed that when our LB's do blitz they don't come in with that mean streak to knock the FB or RB over and get to the QB. They always get jammed at the line and get stood up ALWAYS!

Yah, that's been noticed many a time. But they're fast. ;D

[Cito Pelon]

We have coverage linebackers. Probably the only one that can blitz is Winborn - and he's a marginal LB at best.

Good blitzing doesn't just happen - you need the right players and practice to get it right.

Who do they cover? What do they cover? Good coverage LB's get their hands on the ball, or at least are near enough to the receiver to make an open field tackle. It's harsh to say, but these LB's have problems making plays in all facets of pass defense. I don't know if it's a coaching problem, a ferocity problem, a problem between the ears.

The LB coach, Jim Ryan, is new to the position. I believe he was an 'Offensive Assistant ' the last few years. He's a former Bronco LB in a 3-4 D back in the 80's. He swapped roles with Joe Baker, last year's LB coach and Jim Bates' guy he brought in. Ronnie Bradford is back as the DB coach after the stint as the ST coach in what '04 - '05? I don't know what the heck is going on with the coaching staff. Draw your own conclusions, I'm lost.

[oubronco]

they suck at run defense as well

[TheDave]

I never thought i would say this... I miss Larry Coyer.

[summerdenver]

After watching the KCs game i feel that it is more of an issue with execution than scheme. For e.g. on LJs long run, OL pushed the DTs to left and John Engelburger to right to create a seam for LJ. However, the LB was correctly in the gap and LJ saw that was going towards left which would have resulted in a marginal gain at best. That is till our LB (winbon?) overplayed and got greedy and tried to tackle LJ behind the los. Unfortunately he is not good enough for that and when LJ cut back, he fell down resulting in a huge gap for LJ. Time and time again i saw our guys hit the RBs behind or near the LOS but miss the tackle and give up atleast 3/4 yards after the contact. Honestly other than champ none of our back seven are good/consistent at tackling.

We did blitz but it was very ineffective. For e.g on 3rd and 13 immediately after Royal fumble, we blitzed 7 and they only had 6 to block. The 7th guy(37) was untouched. Huard did not have time to look for anyone other than Bowe and if coverage was good, that was a sack but unfortunately Bowe got open on JMFW and it was a completion instead of sack. I get the feeling that all 11 are not playing their responbilities together and one of them is making a mistake.

[Crushaholic]

KC had the right idea on defense. They were going after the ball every time...

UGH. Did I just compliment the KC defense? I need a shower...

[azbroncfan]

The Eagles are very similar to the Broncos talent wise. Juqua Parker is NOT better than Elvis Dumervil. !

Are you kidding me? The Eagles 2nd team DL is much better than the Broncos first team DL. I was watching the Eagles and wondered why can't Denver get pressure like this with three LB's with less than 3 years in the league and it's because they spend high picks on DL. Anyone that thinks the Broncos have similar talent on the DL are crazy.

[Popps]

KC had the right idea on defense. They were going after the ball every time....

Well, it worked, too.

But, let's not try stripping the ball ourselves. Just keep doing what you're doing, defensive staff. Don't change a thing!

Here's another thing we shouldn't ever do. Our linemen should never put their hands in the air in attempts to knock a pass down. Whatever we do... we can't start that!

Good lord, when was the last time any of our linemen batted a pass down. I'm not kidding, does anyone remember??

[Lolad]

Well, it worked, too.

But, let's not try stripping the ball ourselves. Just keep doing what you're doing, defensive staff. Don't change a thing!

Here's another thing we shouldn't ever do. Our linemen should never put their hands in the air in attempts to knock a pass down. Whatever we do... we can't start that!

Good lord, when was the last time any of our linemen batted a pass down. I'm not kidding, does anyone remember??

they're to busy getting pushed into the ground to put their hands up

[Mediator12]

KC had the right idea on defense. They were going after the ball every time...

UGH. Did I just compliment the KC defense? I need a shower...

KC plays a cover 2 scheme where everyone flows to the ball on every play. DEN plays a combination scheme that reads the run before playing the pass. Seriously, no one in the NFL today plays what they are doing right now. It's just hard to watch them line up and play that way.

An interesting side note, KC played a heavy cover 2 with a single gap flow to the ball mentality. They covered their rookie CB's by playing heavy zone. When they did not, Jay killed them. When they did play Zone, Jay made some really bad decisions. The first 3 teams DEN played play heavy man to man coverage and Jay could make dangerous throws because the players backs were turned in coverage. On both INT's against KC, the Defenders were able to break on balls in a zone and make a play.

I hope he can learn from that. Take risks against man to man coverages and stop forcing the ball into narrow gaps in the zone when the defenders are looking at you and can make plays. Against the zone, you have to be patient and read the natural gaps that your routes will exploit. Jay still tries to force too many throws into zones when he could go elsewhere with a little more patience.