View Full Version : A question for the Obama supporters...
Do you hope that Barack Obama will change politics if he becomes president? On what grounds?
cutthemdown
09-23-2008, 05:18 PM
I don't think people are expecting a whole lot from Obama as far as changing the way we govern. I think people are just excited to get rid of Bush. IMO with the mess the country is in being President right now not really that great of a job. Plus as soon as Obama wins he will backtrack on tax breaks, raise them for everyone, and blame the banking bailout for it.
Even though about 50% will say he had to raise tax, not his fault, he didn't know about the bailout. The other 50% won't care and will say he lied. Either way it won't be something that starts of a presidency with a good feeling.
I don't think McCain if elected could follow through either. The govt just spent the most money I have ever heard of in this bailout. I just don't see any tax breaks comong for any of us now.
Hide your money people, the feds are coming for it!!!!
Bronco Bob
09-23-2008, 05:30 PM
Do you hope that Barack Obama will change politics if he becomes president? On what grounds?
To a certain extent. He seems more idealistic, not as cynical as what
we've had the last 8 years. He seems sort of like the 2008 version of JFK.
I don't expect Shangra-La, but I get the idea things will be better for
the average American than they were under Bush or would be with McCain.
They usually are with a Democrat as president.
You didn't answer the second question. Upon what do you base your beliefs?
TexanBob
09-23-2008, 08:48 PM
You didn't answer the second question. Upon what do you base your beliefs?
Hope. Hope for change. Change that can bring...hope. And change we can, like, hope in.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-23-2008, 08:56 PM
Hope. Hope for change. Change that can bring...hope. And change we can, like, hope in.
What does that say about McBush (who just co-opted all of the above?)
This is a thread about Obama supporters and their reasons for being such, LABF. I realize deflecting onto McCain is your game, but go play it elsewhere.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-23-2008, 09:05 PM
Legitimate question: If Obama's message is fraudulent as Texan Boob suggests, then why has his/your boy McCain co-opted it?
Stick to the topic, please.
PS - McCain ain't my boy. Why is Obama yours?
I guess none of the Obamaniacs is up to the challenge.
Pity.
Nice thread Wags. You got 11 responses and 6 of them are from you.
frerottenextelway
09-24-2008, 02:32 PM
You didn't answer the second question. Upon what do you base your beliefs?
His change in politics has always - from day 1 - been centered around removing character assination from politics. You know, the ''he hates troops'' and the ''he hates america'' type stuff you see coming from that other side. You'll notice when someone challenges Obama on playing ''dirty'' too, it's virtually always issue oriented (like the SS thread in this very forum) - or something completely fabricated like ''pig with lipstick''.
OrangeDoofus
09-24-2008, 02:48 PM
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
In a land where politics has been driven into the gutter over the last couple decades, a guy who's semi-honest most of the time and has a decent knowledge of what he's talking about looks like the second coming of Abraham Lincoln.
Obama's policies will lead to a change in our economic and energy policies.
It'll also reverse much of the abuse Bush has put the powers of the executive branch through and enable the House and Senate to step back up to the three equal branches level they should be.
He isn't going to produce some utopian society, but he will do what this country needs to turn our economic and energy policies around.
Why do I believe this? Because it is the core of his campaign. If you want I'll go into detail as to how, but I don't think you really want that because this is just yet another thread where you can attack Obama/the democratic party, exercising those deep republican loyalties that you hold, without actually making some form of outright statement so you can cry "I'm a libertarian" every time you get questioned on your bull****.
But by all means, if you have a more specific legitimate question then fire away.
Rigs11
09-24-2008, 03:13 PM
Why do you care wigged? You're not voting this election right?
Funny how history shows that Obama is much more a standard ol' politician than he is some sort of Messiah...
Rigs11
09-24-2008, 03:24 PM
the only ones that spew that he is a messiah are the repubs, your true colors show through once again.
frerottenextelway
09-24-2008, 03:28 PM
the only ones that spew that he is a messiah are the repubs, your true colors show through once again.
Yep, he's a strawman and a fraud, I shouldn't have bothered to give him a serious answer.
Obama is a politician. He's not going to change politics in any way, shape or form.
Those who think he will are deluded.
Obama is a politician. He's not going to change politics in any way, shape or form.
Those who think he will are deluded.
Who (other than the GOP propaganda you're clearly feeding on) has ever said he's going to make some radical change to our political system?
He'll remove the abuses Bush has put in place for the executive branch. Other than that he's not going to dramatically alter our nation's political structure, but he will dramatically change the way we run our economy and energy policies.
BarefootKicker
09-24-2008, 04:34 PM
Do you hope that Barack Obama will change politics if he becomes president? On what grounds?
As an Obama supporter, I'll take the bait and answer the question. But first, I'd like you to pick which definition of politics you are referring to. Please select one (or more) of the following from the dictionary.com entry for "politics"
polˇiˇtics (pŏl'ĭ-tĭks) Pronunciation Key
n.
(used with a sing. verb)
The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.
Political science.
The activities or affairs engaged in by a government, politician, or political party: "All politics is local" (Thomas P. O'Neill, Jr.) "Politics have appealed to me since I was at Oxford because they are exciting morning, noon, and night" (Jeffrey Archer).
The methods or tactics involved in managing a state or government: The politics of the former regime were rejected by the new government leadership. If the politics of the conservative government now borders on the repressive, what can be expected when the economy falters?
(used with a sing. or pl. verb)
The activities or affairs engaged in by a government, politician, or political party: "All politics is local" (Thomas P. O'Neill, Jr.) "Politics have appealed to me since I was at Oxford because they are exciting morning, noon, and night" (Jeffrey Archer).
The methods or tactics involved in managing a state or government: The politics of the former regime were rejected by the new government leadership. If the politics of the conservative government now borders on the repressive, what can be expected when the economy falters?
(used with a sing. or pl. verb) Political life: studied law with a view to going into politics; felt that politics was a worthwhile career.
(used with a sing. or pl. verb) Intrigue or maneuvering within a political unit or group in order to gain control or power: Partisan politics is often an obstruction to good government. Office politics are often debilitating and counterproductive.
(used with a sing. or pl. verb) Political attitudes and positions: His politics on that issue is his own business. Your politics are clearly more liberal than mine.
(used with a sing. or pl. verb) The often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a society.
Bronco Bob
09-24-2008, 05:11 PM
Obama is a politician. He's not going to change politics in any way, shape or form.
And you know this for a fact because?
Those who think he will are deluded.
Perhaps it is you who has deluded himself into thinking there
are no more idealistic people in the world who want to
change things for the better. Perhaps you are just projecting
your cynical outlook on life onto Obama.
Rohirrim
09-24-2008, 06:06 PM
Obama is a politician. He's not going to change politics in any way, shape or form.
Those who think he will are deluded.
Of course he isn't. What an absurd criteria. Politics is politics.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-24-2008, 06:50 PM
Of course he isn't. What an absurd criteria. Politics is politics.
Some things never change, e.g., W*GS doing the same thing for McCain that he did for Bush these past eight years.
http://www.bartcop.com/fix-monkey.jpg
Who (other than the GOP propaganda you're clearly feeding on) has ever said he's going to make some radical change to our political system?
It's not that he'll change the political system itself; the assertion is that he'll rise above politics, correct?
As an Obama supporter, I'll take the bait and answer the question. But first, I'd like you to pick which definition of politics you are referring to. Please select one (or more) of the following from the dictionary.com entry for "politics"
The first will do.
Upon what grounds do you think Obama will change "the art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs."?
And you know this for a fact because?
His history. He's definitely played along to get along.
Perhaps it is you who has deluded himself into thinking there are no more idealistic people in the world who want to change things for the better. Perhaps you are just projecting your cynical outlook on life onto Obama.
People who think they know what "better" is for all of us are dangerous.
Some things never change, e.g., W*GS doing the same thing for McCain that he did for Bush these past eight years.
You're a sad joke.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-24-2008, 07:06 PM
The sad joke is W*GS claiming to be a libertarian, claiming not to have a horse in this race, claiming to be an equal opportunity hater when it comes to politicians - while focusing all of his attacks on Obama and giving McCain a pass.
LABF, you're hallucinating. Show me one instance in which I've supported McCain.
Just one.
Otherwise, quit the lies.
I've always been honest; you ought to try it sometime.
It's not that he'll change the political system itself; the assertion is that he'll rise above politics, correct?
No.
The assertion by 95% of Obama supporters is that he's actually an intelligent, well educated individual who has specialized in the very fields needed to run this country fairly.
He isn't going to change the fundamentals of our political system. He's just going to live up to the standard set by the framers of the constitution, someone governing with intelligence and insight, not "shooting from the hip" or "going with their gut" when making decisions with global implications.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-24-2008, 07:17 PM
W*GS is doing for McCain exactly what he did for Bush, i.e., deflecting criticism by turning every attempt to examine McCain into an attack on gramps' opponent.
How do you figure?
His political past?
Snort.
W*GS is doing for McCain exactly what he did for Bush, i.e., deflecting criticism by turning every attempt to examine McCain into an attack on gramps' opponent.
This is a thread about Obama; stick to the topic, and quit deflecting from Obama onto McCain.
Take your own medicine, son.
BarefootKicker
09-24-2008, 08:38 PM
The first will do.
Upon what grounds do you think Obama will change "the art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs."?
Obama will, and to a certain extent, already has changed politics through the way he funds his campaign, the demographics he relies on to win elections, and his massive GOTV operation.
Fund raising: No candidate ever has taken in more money via the internet, from small donors than Barack Obama. 90 percent of Obama's contributions have averaged $109. That in itself is a MASSIVE SHIFT in campaign fund raising. Obama's fund raising advantage has allowed him to play offense in traditional deep red states... Montana, North Carolina, and Virgina are all IN PLAY. That is a fundamental CHANGE in politics right there.
Demographics: Obama realizes that his path to victory is NOT soccer moms, nascar dads, or any of the old BS. His path to victory is the 18-39 year old minority, shift worker, nurse, bus driver, software engineer who likely hasn't ever voted before. His operation is registering so many of these voters that it will amount to a complete realignment of the electorate. Not only is this GOTV operation helping his Campaign, it is likely that down-ticket races will be impacted as well.
Once in office, I will concede that there is no guarantee that Obama will play the Washington game any differently, I HOPE he does. As trite as that may sound to you, I am inspired by the sheer possibility of what he CAN do. And frankly, after the last 8 years, Hope is worth my vote.
Bronco Bob
09-24-2008, 09:14 PM
His history. He's definitely played along to get along.
Gasp, you mean people aren't just voting for him because he's pretty and a good talker? He's actually able to get things done? He knows how to
organize people, meet a payroll, in in touch with what people are interested in?
In other words is competent. Why ever would we want that in a president?
People who think they know what "better" is for all of us are dangerous.
People who don't give a damn are also dangerous.
SonOfLe-loLang
09-24-2008, 10:37 PM
I guess none of the Obamaniacs is up to the challenge.
Pity.
Simply put, i dont think Obama is a savior...hardly. But i'd just like a democratic president who is willing to roll out the democratic playbook, which, as history has proven, is more effective and fair to the populous than the neo con one.
There will be a major issue here though. no matter who wins, the next 2-3 years will be a wash. We are in such a deep hole and I hope america understands that there is no quick fix.
Once in office, I will concede that there is no guarantee that Obama will play the Washington game any differently, I HOPE he does. As trite as that may sound to you, I am inspired by the sheer possibility of what he CAN do. And frankly, after the last 8 years, Hope is worth my vote.
In other words, you're acting on faith, with no evidence to back up your convictions.
BarefootKicker
09-25-2008, 06:59 AM
In other words, you're acting on faith, with no evidence to back up your convictions.
Not only did you not comment on the majority of my post answering your question about how he will and has changed politics, I think you may have misread the portion you did quote. I never used the word faith.
I did use words like HOPE and CAN... Because I Hope Obama can change the way Washington works. I hope he will be a transformative figure in American politics. After Hoover... We got Roosevelt. After W, HOPEFULLY we get Obama.
I just don't see evidence of Obama being a transformative figure in any way. I'm considering his career in politics:
* He won the Democratic nomination for his Illinois seat by getting a team of lawyers to throw all the other candidates off the ballot on various technicalities;
* He was a staunch backer of Richard Daley;
* He didn't lift a finger against John Stroger and his son Todd;
* His links to Jeremiah Wright and Antoin Rezko;
* His record of voting with his party - one of the most solid in the capital;
* He did little or nothing to help with some of the great bipartisan efforts of recent years, notably on immigration reform.
So where's the evidence to support Obama changing politics?
In reality, he's no different than any other politician.
BarefootKicker
09-25-2008, 11:16 AM
I just don't see evidence of Obama being a transformative figure in any way. I'm considering his career in politics:
* He won the Democratic nomination for his Illinois seat by getting a team of lawyers to throw all the other candidates off the ballot on various technicalities;
* He was a staunch backer of Richard Daley;
* He didn't lift a finger against John Stroger and his son Todd;
* His links to Jeremiah Wright and Antoin Rezko;
* His record of voting with his party - one of the most solid in the capital;
* He did little or nothing to help with some of the great bipartisan efforts of recent years, notably on immigration reform.
So where's the evidence to support Obama changing politics?
In reality, he's no different than any other politician.
Two things:
1) I can't understand why you continue to refuse to acknowledge the changes Obama already has made to the political process. Is it because it doesn't suit your argument? Do facts get in the way of your bias?
also,
2) I'm curious as to what ties to Jermiah Wright have to do with Obama's ability to "change politics"
1) I can't understand why you continue to refuse to acknowledge the changes Obama already has made to the political process. Is it because it doesn't suit your argument? Do facts get in the way of your bias?
I just don't see how Obama raises money (Ron Paul has done the same, except not to the same magnitude) or the demographics to whom he's pandering mean that he's changing politics.
2) I'm curious as to what ties to Jermiah Wright have to do with Obama's ability to "change politics"
Think "skeletons".
broncofan7
09-25-2008, 12:16 PM
Obama does not have the experience to be at the head of the democratic ticket-So then, how/why did he win the democratic nomination?
It's because he is articulate!---So was Hillary
So what then was the difference? Oh--the 'obstacle' that many felt would be so insurmountable that Barack surely had no chance?YES!!! RACE!! With Blacks supporting their mulatto brother at a clip of 91% and their larger influence in the democratic primary process than in the general election, Barack was able to parlay his eloquence, youth and yes, race, to motivate the Dems to rise up and support his cause. What they failed to focus on is how that section of Chicago that he served as a community organizer and as a state senator has faired. It still is crime ridden with a large drop out rate and full of single parent homes and lack of job opportunities. If Obama couldn't CHANGE his adopted hometown, how is he going to CHANGE AMERICA? With his catchy , teleprompter delivered lines that are reminicent of The WWE's Rock's deliveries? The only change that Obama will bring to Washington is that experience will no longer play a role in selecting our candidates..........
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-25-2008, 03:20 PM
I can't understand why you continue to refuse to acknowledge the changes Obama already has made to the political process.
Because denying all inconvenient facts is about the only tactic GOP shills like W*GS have left at this stage of the game.
cutthemdown
09-25-2008, 03:27 PM
Is Obama going to get rid of the Patriot act?
Is he going to get rid of lobbyists in DC?
Is he going to stop using the military to enforce Americas interests?
Is he going to give everyone healthcare?
Is he going to follow through on his tax cuts for middle class?
Is he going to force corporations to be less greedy?
Those to me seem like the big issues. For you liberals for sure the military not being used as forcefully, the patriot act would seem to be paramount for you. Also the universal affordable health care for all issue is very big.
How upset will you be if in 4 yrs he doesn't significantly change health care. He doesn't lower your tax and he leaves Patriot act in place.
IMO only the softer military stance is doable.
peacepipe
09-25-2008, 03:27 PM
Funny how history shows that Obama is much more a standard ol' politician than he is some sort of Messiah...
No one is claiming him to be the messiah only that he'll be a better president.
No one is claiming him to be the messiah only that he'll be a better president.
I think al davis or john maddan would be a better president than McCheese
Because denying all inconvenient facts is about the only tactic GOP shills like W*GS have left at this stage of the game.
Another lie.
Can you possibly write something without a big fat honking turd of a lie within it?
I'd say no.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-25-2008, 05:58 PM
Ha ha ha! :laugh:
All this time W*GS has been working his "you're a socialist (or even a Stalinist) who advocates de facto ownership of the means of production by the state" straw man arguments - and here it turns out that the anti-regulation free market fundamentalists whose flank he's been covering all these years are the real socialists.
Now it's simply a race to see who can nationalize the most companies - W*GS' boogeyman Chavez or his hero Dubya.
Hilarious!
Yep, as I correctly predicted...
LABF cannot write something without a big fat honking turd of a lie within it.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-25-2008, 06:08 PM
It's not a "lie" that W*GS comdemns others for what he perceives as advocacy for "de facto state ownership" of the private sector when the same free market fundamentalists whose flank he's been covering for the past eight years are currently on a pace to nationalize more private companies than Hugo Chavez.
W*GS has been exposed as a hypocrite and his ideology a fraud.
And yet more proof.
More big fat honking turds - the OM is starting to smell.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-25-2008, 06:12 PM
The only "lie" here is the one you keep repeating in the hope that it will turn into truth, and the only "turds" are those you fling against the wall in the hope that one will stick.
Peee-yew!
Someone needs to let off a Lysol bomb in here.
Thanks, oh great Defecator LABF.