This defense will be top 15 by years end

[Willynowei]

I'm not talking statistically, I'm just speaking level of play here...

I'll keep it simple:

1.) We are fast.
1a.) We fly to the ball.

2.) Our D-line is fast.
2a.) They fly to the ball.

3.) We are a step slow on zones, blitzing, man pick up and reads because we are hesitating.
3a.) The players are hesitating because they are uncomfortable with the scheme.
3b.) They are clearly becoming more comfortable through each passing week.

After watching the replay i can say that almost all their critical conversions that game came because our players were hesitant in their zones. I've noticed and I'm very glad that when we run stunts and loops we were often getting pressure with 4 or 5 rushers. This means to me, that our woes are not due to physical inability (which can't be fixed over the course of a season).

Mentaly we aren't there yet but we will, and when we do, I will bump this thread.

P.S. to the people calling for Slowik's head due to his "ineptitude" in Greenbay, their defense sucked for 3 years after him when Bates took over. AND, when slowik took over the job for Chicago in 1993, he turned them from the 22nd ranked defense to the 3rd ranked defense and kept them in the top 10 for 3 of the next 4 seasons.

Not so bad eh? I will say yesterday his biggest mistake was trusting Bailey to stop Bush. That did not work well and the saints got multiple big 3rd down conversions on that. However, his scheme of condensing the field against Bush with the 3down linemen I believe - was a Shanahan idea: a guy who knows how much Brees loves his QB rating and always checks down when he's done with progressions.

It worked aslong as we did two things.

1.) Take away all completions behind the second level of the defense.
2.) Eliminate YAC especially from Bush and Shockey.

We did a good job of #2 but failed at #1. Alot of it had to do with again, hesitation and Brees good timing.

[Gort]

you're welcome to drink the orange koolaid.

me personally... now that they have 3 games of film to look at, i believe that teams will come out throwing against the Broncos all year. except for really bad teams (like KC), i don't think our pass defense holds anyone under 300 yards passing for the rest of the season. the only way the Broncos keep winning is to keep outscoring the opponents. i expect lots of 35-31 or 38-35 type scores this season and a few more games decided in the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter. until the Broncos develop an effective pass rush and can stop the opposing team on 3rd downs, quality opponents will be able to march up and down the field at will for the rest of the year.

[lex]

Hate to rain on the parade but its not likely. It would be great but brace yourselves. History tells us it gets bad...very, very mad.

http://dack.com/archive/bob-slowik-must-be-fired.html


Bob Slowik Must Be Fired

On January 16, 2004 Green Bay Packers coach Mike Sherman fired defensive coordinator Ed Donatell, making him the official scapegoat for his team's 4th-and-26 meltdown against the Philadelphia Eagles in the Packers' 20-17 loss of last year's NFC divisional playoff game.

To replace Donatell, Sherman promoted defensive backs coach Bob Slowik.

Slowik, who previously coordinated middling defenses in Chicago and Cleveland, drew up a high-pressure, high-risk, blitz-heavy scheme that was to be the identity of the 2004 Packers defense. After giving up 5 TD passes in the first half vs. Indianapolis in Week 3, his scheme was abandoned. Still, his defense gave up 5 TD passes in the first half in Week 13 against Philadelphia.
But twice giving up 5 TD passes in the first half is not why Bob Slowik must be fired. Nor is it his glaring lack of takeaways, or the insanely high opponents' passer rating. No. Bob Slowik must be fired because he schemed a defense that set many records -- in a bad way -- in the history of the Packer franchise.

Bob Slowik All-Time Records
Bob Slowik's defense is one for the history books. In a really, really bad way.

Record Slowik
Record Broken
Record
Fewest Opponent Turnovers, Season 15 16 (1995)
Fewest Passes Intercepted By, Season 8 13 (1980, 1995, 1998)
Fewest Forced Fumbles, Season 11 12 (1995)
Most First Downs Allowed, Passing, Season 228 188 (1995)
Most Yards Allowed, Net Passing, Season 3,943 3,762 (1983)
Most Yards Allowed, Passing, Game 464 448 (2004)
Most TD Allowed Passing, Season 33 31 (1986)
Highest Opponents' Passer Rating, Season 99.1 86.1 (1958)



Close-But-No-Cigar Bob Slowik All-Time Records
Thanks to Rich Wingo, Ezra Johnson, Estes Hood, and Ken Stills, Slowik finished second all-time in these categories:
Record Slowik
Record All-Time
Record
Most First Downs Allowed, Season 354 366 (1983)
Most First Downs Allowed, Penalty, Season 28 29 (2002)
Highest Completion Percentage Allowed, Season 60.6 63.45 (1989)



Likely Bob Slowik All-Time Records
Here are a few other likely records that I could not verify. Please send me an email if you have source info.

Fewest fumbles recovered, season
7. 2nd-lowest in NFL.
Opponents' 3rd down conversion percentage, season
47.3. 2nd-worst in NFL.
Opponents' passing yards/attempt, season
7.61. 4th-worst in NFL.
Opponents' passing yards/completion, season
12.6. 3rd-worst in NFL.
Most passing TDs allowed, first half
5. But you knew that.
Most passing TDs, first half
5. Indianapolis franchise record.
Most passing TDs, first half
5. Philadelphia franchise record.
Most completions, start a game
14. Philadelphia franchise record. Confirmed.
Most passing yards, game
464. Philadelphia franchise record. Confirmed.

[Willynowei]

Hate to rain on the parade but its not likely. It would be great but brace yourselves. History tells us it gets bad...very, very mad.

http://dack.com/archive/bob-slowik-must-be-fired.html

lol someone forgot to rread the last paragraph of my post...

Look at those numbers, alot of htem point to single game situations and not all of them are when he was the D-coordinator.

[lex]

lol someone forgot to rread the last paragraph of my post...

Look at those numbers, alot of htem point to single game situations and not all of them are when he was the D-coordinator.

Actually, I see "season" mentioned several times in his list of dubious accomplishments.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

The players love and trust him. As an outside viewer, that's all we can bank on. We can watch the games and read the criticism all we want, but most of us will never be close enough to know that they really think of him in the locker-room. Leading up this season and currently, they still believe in him. Until that changes, that's what I'll rely on.

[Willynowei]

Actually, I see "season" mentioned several times in his list of dubious accomplishments.

That was the 2004 Packers defense, which sucked for 3 more years before Jim Bates "turned it around". Most of his D-Coordinator days were back in the mid 90's chicago defenses.

So one bad season makes you a horrible coordinator?

[lex]

That was the 2004 Packers defense, which sucked for 3 more years before Jim Bates "turned it around". Most of his D-Coordinator days were back in the mid 90's chicago defenses.

So one bad season makes you a horrible coordinator?

I think they went from around 14th to almost last with Slowik as their DC. Thats extremely poor.

[Dudeskey]

That was the 2004 Packers defense, which sucked for 3 more years before Jim Bates "turned it around". Most of his D-Coordinator days were back in the mid 90's chicago defenses.

So one bad season makes you a horrible coordinator?

If I remember correctly, which also lead the league in most TD Passes allowed that year as well...™

[baja]

I'm on board with this. I see the defense getting better every week and playing hard. Top 15 is real IMO

[CasinoRoyal]

I'm not talking statistically, I'm just speaking level of play here...

I'll keep it simple:

1.) We are fast.
1a.) We fly to the ball.

2.) Our D-line is fast.
2a.) They fly to the ball.

3.) We are a step slow on zones, blitzing, man pick up and reads because we are hesitating.
3a.) The players are hesitating because they are uncomfortable with the scheme.
3b.) They are clearly becoming more comfortable through each passing week.

After watching the replay i can say that almost all their critical conversions that game came because our players were hesitant in their zones. I've noticed and I'm very glad that when we run stunts and loops we were often getting pressure with 4 or 5 rushers. This means to me, that our woes are not due to physical inability (which can't be fixed over the course of a season).

Mentaly we aren't there yet but we will, and when we do, I will bump this thread.

P.S. to the people calling for Slowik's head due to his "ineptitude" in Greenbay, their defense sucked for 3 years after him when Bates took over. AND, when slowik took over the job for Chicago in 1993, he turned them from the 22nd ranked defense to the 3rd ranked defense and kept them in the top 10 for 3 of the next 4 seasons.

Not so bad eh? I will say yesterday his biggest mistake was trusting Bailey to stop Bush. That did not work well and the saints got multiple big 3rd down conversions on that. However, his scheme of condensing the field against Bush with the 3down linemen I believe - was a Shanahan idea: a guy who knows how much Brees loves his QB rating and always checks down when he's done with progressions.

It worked aslong as we did two things.

1.) Take away all completions behind the second level of the defense.
2.) Eliminate YAC especially from Bush and Shockey.

We did a good job of #2 but failed at #1. Alot of it had to do with again, hesitation and Brees good timing.


Thats what im talking about!!!! this defense just needs to finish 15-20 and we will be just fine.

These idiots wants a number 1 defense when we have a offense thats gonna score 40 a game.

The two QBs who had good days are pretty good QBs on two high powered offenses who were both down huge early.

We may never finish outside the bottom half in passing defense for that reason alone. We score too fast and too often for teams to not pass the ball on us.

[theAPAOps5]

I'm on board with this. I see the defense getting better every week and playing hard. Top 15 is real IMO

The problem is their stats have declined each game. They should get way better in theory against KC and the weeks ahead because they don't face offenses like SD and NOLA but still its hard to think positive right now.

[kappys]

This team is fast and does fly to the ball, which is why every counter or screen results in a 10+ yard gain.

[CasinoRoyal]

And most importantly people act like they dont notice that we get HUGE stops when we need huge stops!!!!! Thatss facts.

[lex]

Here is his handiwerk from his time in Chicago:



Total Passing
Pts Yds Yds NY/Att
1993 3 4 3 2
1994 10 13 5 7
1995 22 19 27 23
1996 12 12 14 17
1997 29 12 11 18
1998 23 14 15 28


Notice within 3 years the defense went from good to poor

[Willynowei]

I think they went from around 14th to almost last with Slowik as their DC. Thats extremely poor.

and like i said the Bears went from 22 to 3 in 93 so does he get credit for that?

[Willynowei]

Here is his handiwerk from his time in Chicago:



Total Passing
Pts Yds Yds NY/Att
1993 3 4 3 2
1994 10 13 5 7
1995 22 19 27 23
1996 12 12 14 17
1997 29 12 11 18
1998 23 14 15 28


Notice within 3 years the defense went from good to poor


look up their 1992 stats

[DarkHorse30]

you're welcome to drink the orange koolaid.

me personally... now that they have 3 games of film to look at, i believe that teams will come out throwing against the Broncos all year. except for really bad teams (like KC), i don't think our pass defense holds anyone under 300 yards passing for the rest of the season. the only way the Broncos keep winning is to keep outscoring the opponents. i expect lots of 35-31 or 38-35 type scores this season and a few more games decided in the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter. until the Broncos develop an effective pass rush and can stop the opposing team on 3rd downs, quality opponents will be able to march up and down the field at will for the rest of the year.

that's a pretty dramatic prediction, considering that Denver has just played 2 of the best offenses in football, with at least 2 game-changing skill players on ea. offense. If opposing offense want to pass at will, their TO ratio will go up, as our defensive starters (of whom 6 were on other teams or playing a different position than last year) get more familiar with where the other guys will be at. Give 'em some time to gel and actually play as a team. The great thing is that the malcontents are gone....and the defense KNOWS they have work to do, but are getting used to stepping up in crunch time. Don't discount the goalline stop, or keeping SD from getting to run the clock in the last few minutes last week. That's the sort of thing that good defenses build on.

[maher_tyler]

I'm not talking statistically, I'm just speaking level of play here...

I'll keep it simple:

1.) We are fast.
1a.) We fly to the ball.

2.) Our D-line is fast.
2a.) They fly to the ball.

3.) We are a step slow on zones, blitzing, man pick up and reads because we are hesitating.
3a.) The players are hesitating because they are uncomfortable with the scheme.
3b.) They are clearly becoming more comfortable through each passing week.

After watching the replay i can say that almost all their critical conversions that game came because our players were hesitant in their zones. I've noticed and I'm very glad that when we run stunts and loops we were often getting pressure with 4 or 5 rushers. This means to me, that our woes are not due to physical inability (which can't be fixed over the course of a season).

Mentaly we aren't there yet but we will, and when we do, I will bump this thread.

P.S. to the people calling for Slowik's head due to his "ineptitude" in Greenbay, their defense sucked for 3 years after him when Bates took over. AND, when slowik took over the job for Chicago in 1993, he turned them from the 22nd ranked defense to the 3rd ranked defense and kept them in the top 10 for 3 of the next 4 seasons.

Not so bad eh? I will say yesterday his biggest mistake was trusting Bailey to stop Bush. That did not work well and the saints got multiple big 3rd down conversions on that. However, his scheme of condensing the field against Bush with the 3down linemen I believe - was a Shanahan idea: a guy who knows how much Brees loves his QB rating and always checks down when he's done with progressions.

It worked aslong as we did two things.

1.) Take away all completions behind the second level of the defense.
2.) Eliminate YAC especially from Bush and Shockey.

We did a good job of #2 but failed at #1. Alot of it had to do with again, hesitation and Brees good timing.

I REALLY hope your right but i don't agree with you on 3.)...they had guys WIDE open all day long...seriously i don't know why they ever ran the ball they were moving the ball at will through the air!!

[2KBack]

I've been saying the same thing, I'm with you on this

[Gort]

that's a pretty dramatic prediction, considering that Denver has just played 2 of the best offenses in football, with at least 2 game-changing skill players on ea. offense. If opposing offense want to pass at will, their TO ratio will go up, as our defensive starters (of whom 6 were on other teams or playing a different position than last year) get more familiar with where the other guys will be at. Give 'em some time to gel and actually play as a team. The great thing is that the malcontents are gone....and the defense KNOWS they have work to do, but are getting used to stepping up in crunch time. Don't discount the goalline stop, or keeping SD from getting to run the clock in the last few minutes last week. That's the sort of thing that good defenses build on.

i'm not saying that the Broncos won't keep on winning. i'm just saying that when you can't get any pressure and you give the opposing QB 5 or 7 seconds to find somebody open, he's going to find somebody open everytime. the end results... lots of passing yards and lots of scores that Cutler will have to match.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'm not talking statistically, I'm just speaking level of play here...

I'll keep it simple:

1.) We are fast.
1a.) We fly to the ball.

2.) Our D-line is fast.
2a.) They fly to the ball.

3.) We are a step slow on zones, blitzing, man pick up and reads because we are hesitating.
3a.) The players are hesitating because they are uncomfortable with the scheme.
3b.) They are clearly becoming more comfortable through each passing week.

After watching the replay i can say that almost all their critical conversions that game came because our players were hesitant in their zones. I've noticed and I'm very glad that when we run stunts and loops we were often getting pressure with 4 or 5 rushers. This means to me, that our woes are not due to physical inability (which can't be fixed over the course of a season).

Mentaly we aren't there yet but we will, and when we do, I will bump this thread.

P.S. to the people calling for Slowik's head due to his "ineptitude" in Greenbay, their defense sucked for 3 years after him when Bates took over. AND, when slowik took over the job for Chicago in 1993, he turned them from the 22nd ranked defense to the 3rd ranked defense and kept them in the top 10 for 3 of the next 4 seasons.

Not so bad eh? I will say yesterday his biggest mistake was trusting Bailey to stop Bush. That did not work well and the saints got multiple big 3rd down conversions on that. However, his scheme of condensing the field against Bush with the 3down linemen I believe - was a Shanahan idea: a guy who knows how much Brees loves his QB rating and always checks down when he's done with progressions.

It worked aslong as we did two things.

1.) Take away all completions behind the second level of the defense.
2.) Eliminate YAC especially from Bush and Shockey.

We did a good job of #2 but failed at #1. Alot of it had to do with again, hesitation and Brees good timing.
Well personally I think we suck eggs and we'll be near the bottom of the league all year long, but I'll give you major credit for thinking through this situation and I respect anyone on this board who thinks for themselves and stands against the prevailing view...so props for putting your credibility on the line for what looks at this point like a hopeless situation. If you're right I"ll admit straight up that you deserve the applause for seeing it.

I don't think this is a timing issue because I'm seeing this D-line get flat out owned both in passing situations and at the point of attack. Those guys either know how to get to the QB and react to the run or they don't. Our LB's are castoffs except for DJ, who is a stud on the weakside. The safeties stink and Bly has been less than stellar...even Champ's not been on his A game. On the flip side, if this D could even make a small improvement...say 15%...Cutler & Co. can carve up anybody in the league.

One thing that's gone almost unnoticed in here in the midst of the defensive meltdown...this team really needs a big time RB to keep the pressure off the pass rush AND, more importantly, to control the clock. It's obvious that Shanny doesn't consider either of our spare part backs as anything more than an afterthought. One of the main reasons the Colts offense has been so good is that they've had that guy who could move the chains consistently on the ground and it opens the game up for Manning but it also lets them eat the clock when they want to. If we had one of these guys it would go a long ways toward keeping the D off the field and letting them get a breather. That works to our advantage in the 2nd half of any game we play.

[bpinna]

One thing that's gone almost unnoticed in here in the midst of the defensive meltdown...this team really needs a big time RB to keep the pressure off the pass rush AND, more importantly, to control the clock. It's obvious that Shanny doesn't consider either of our spare part backs as anything more than an afterthought. One of the main reasons the Colts offense has been so good is that they've had that guy who could move the chains consistently on the ground and it opens the game up for Manning but it also lets them eat the clock when they want to. If we had one of these guys it would go a long ways toward keeping the D off the field and letting them get a breather. That works to our advantage in the 2nd half of any game we play.

I was wondering about this. Why aren't we trying to control the clock given the state of our D? It would take a lot of pressure off. Agreed that we don't have elite RB's, but the O-Line has looked great. Seems like we should at least be making the attempt. And maybe Torain can contribute coming off IR late in the season.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I was wondering about this. Why aren't we trying to control the clock given the state of our D? It would take a lot of pressure off. Agreed that we don't have elite RB's, but the O-Line has looked great. Seems like we should at least be making the attempt. And maybe Torain can contribute coming off IR late in the season.
Because there's no TD or Portis or even Mike Anderson on this team. Shanny figures our D sucks so bad the only option is putting it up.

[summerdenver]

I don't think this is a timing issue because I'm seeing this D-line get flat out owned both in passing situations and at the point of attack. Those guys either know how to get to the QB and react to the run or they don't. Our LB's are castoffs except for DJ, who is a stud on the weakside. The safeties stink and Bly has been less than stellar...even Champ's not been on his A game. On the flip side, if this D could even make a small improvement...say 15%...Cutler & Co. can carve up anybody in the league.


FO stats for 3 weeks more or less confirm this. Den is no. 1 ranked offense but 26th ranked defense (30th against pass and 5th against run). Den is doing well against # 1 WR (10th) but pretty bad against every one else
#2 WR (26th)
Other WR(30th)
RB (28th)
TE(23rd)


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

oh to fully appreciate the pressure on offense just look at ST - they are 28th ranked for the first 3 weeks. I spend this year enjoying watching the offense and dreaming about the possibilities in future.

[DB-Freak]

10th against # 1 WRs...

What the **** we paying a shutdown corner for....

I know Champ isn't always lined against the number one, but I know he got burned by the #1 WR's quite a few times already.

[jutang]

The running game seems to be working well. Both Young and Hall have been effective when given the opportunities. The O-line is still really young so the run blocking scheme is probably behind their ability to pass protect. Hence the times you see the Saints D-line five yards in the endzone before Cutler even hands the ball off.

[summerdenver]

10th against # 1 WRs...

What the **** we paying a shutdown corner for....

I know Champ isn't always lined against the number one, but I know he got burned by the #1 WR's quite a few times already.

10th is not bad especially when you consider the pass rush and the fact that probably safeties are mostly either rolling over to the other side or supporting run def. Other parts of secondary is really worrying. Most of the time Brees was throwing to wide open receivers.

[Odysseus]

Top 15? When in the history of the NFL has a team started off their defensive season in the bottom 10th and migrated past 15?

This team will stay in the bottom 1/3 all season long.

If the offense gets a running game together the defense won't have the numbers. I believe that the defense could improve but the odds of it being much more than it is requires a dramatic mid season trade.

[richpjr]

The numbers will get a bit better against teams like KC, but any team with an offense that puts up a lot of points will always end up in shootouts that will seriously skew any defensive rankings.

[AboveAverage]

If I'm Slowik, I hammer home an emphasis on 3rd downs and redzone until the players want to puke. Some of the positions have a severe lack of talent, which will hopefully be improved in the offseason.

Until then, make the other team settle for field goals, and get them off the field on 3rd downs.

Let the offense do the rest.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Safeties are no where to be found.....w/out a solution at the FS and SS positions...this team won't have a top 15 D.

Our defensive Line = 18-22nd ranked in NFL - I would go higher with run support but a no pressure situation for every QB we've faced is not good. 1st and 2nd quarter, these guys look good....after that, their baked.

Our Linebackers = 10-15th ranked in NFL. Very fast, but really get caught up in the current most of the time. DJ is amazing. Webster and Boss need to quick taking plays off.

Our safeties = 25-30th in NFL....I have no idea what we were thinking.

Our Corners = 5-10th in NFL- great corners, just bad safeties...the two don't mix when you're trying to stop the pass!

Basically our corners and Linebackers are really hurting for support from the Safety spots and the Dline respectively. I hate the idea of our Will making 16 tackles a game....he's carrying the from 7 on his back and won't be able to do it all season.

[lex]

and like i said the Bears went from 22 to 3 in 93 so does he get credit for that?

Wow. Some of you guys are unbelievable. 1993 was 15 years ago. A lot has happened since then and the vast majority of it is horrible where Slowiks work as a DC is concerned and, yet, youre willing to pin your hopes on something that happened 15 years ago while ignoring all that has happened since then. Some of you guys are unbelievable.

And btw, we wont be playing the chiefs in the playoffs assuming the defense doesnt prevent us from making it. We, most likely, will be playing teams with god QBs.

[Broncoman13]

LMAO at the people that think a stud RB are going to fix the defenses woes. Selvin Young was running like a mad man on Sunday. 11 carries and avg'd 6 yards per. They give him the ball 20 times a game and he'll get 100. I think the Broncos and Shanny in particular believe they have to score every possession and therefore press the issue with the passing game. That 3rd quarter vs the Chargers "scared" them, IMO.

What fixes the defense is a change in philosophy. This is the same thing we saw time and time again with Rhodes and Coyer. Play the run and react to the pass. Our DLine has to get in a certain position to satisfy their run support duties. Once in that position, and if it is a pass, they can then rush the passer. Problem is, they often take themselves out of position by doing this and it is very predictable. This explains why you see Elvis and Jarvis Moss Bull Rushing on every down instead of giving inside out/outside in moves, spin moves, etc. On obvious passing downs they've done alright getting pressure though not enough. That's really the only time we see stunts and the like. Last but not least, get EKUBAN ON THE FIELD! He makes plays in both the run game and passing game. He deserves to be on the field.

[baja]

Top 15? When in the history of the NFL has a team started off their defensive season in the bottom 10th and migrated past 15?

This team will stay in the bottom 1/3 all season long.

If the offense gets a running game together the defense won't have the numbers. I believe that the defense could improve but the odds of it being much more than it is requires a dramatic mid season trade.

The season is three weeks old and we have played 2 of the best offenses in the league we can and will get better. I think top 15 is very doable.

[Willynowei]

Wow. Some of you guys are unbelievable. 1993 was 15 years ago. A lot has happened since then and the vast majority of it is horrible where Slowiks work as a DC is concerned and, yet, youre willing to pin your hopes on something that happened 15 years ago while ignoring all that has happened since then. Some of you guys are unbelievable.

And btw, we wont be playing the chiefs in the playoffs assuming the defense doesnt prevent us from making it. We, most likely, will be playing teams with god QBs.

What are you talking about? Since his stint with Chicago Slowik has only been a DC for TWO YEARS. Both were to fill in for someone who was fired. This is his third shot, he doesn't have a significant history at the position at all.

The point is you don't judge a defensive coordinator on a single years performance. There are many other factors, including the reason why Green Bay's D-coordinator was fired prior to the 2004 season.

We were ranked a heck of a lot higher in 2006 than 2007 when Bates came in, does that mean he's a horrible coordinator? What about the years of success he had in Greenbay and Miami?

Its not to say that the 1993 stint with the Bears proves Slowik is great, the point is you can't say much about either his '04 stint or the '93 stint.

[lex]

What are you talking about? Since his stint with Chicago Slowik has only been a DC for TWO YEARS. Both were to fill in for someone who was fired. This is his third shot, he doesn't have a significant history at the position at all.

The point is you don't judge a defensive coordinator on a single years performance. There are many other factors, including the reason why Green Bay's D-coordinator was fired prior to the 2004 season.

We were ranked a heck of a lot higher in 2006 than 2007 when Bates came in, does that mean he's a horrible coordinator? What about the years of success he had in Greenbay and Miami?

Its not to say that the 1993 stint with the Bears proves Slowik is great, the point is you can't say much about either his '04 stint or the '93 stint.

Youre the one who presented 1993 as an argument that he is a good defensive coordinator. In the subsequent years its been bad. The years in Chicago after 1993 were pretty bad as well. Plus, more recently he has been awful.

Why are you introducing Bates into this? We're talking about Slowik who has had more time with Denver as the DC and allegedly was going to bring an aggressive scheme...not unlike he was supposed to do in Green Bay.

[Willynowei]

Youre the one who presented 1993 as an argument that he is a good defensive coordinator. In the subsequent years its been bad. The years in Chicago after 1993 were pretty bad as well. Plus, more recently he has been awful.

Why are you introducing Bates into this? We're talking about Slowik who has had more time with Denver as the DC and allegedly was going to bring an aggressive scheme...not unlike he was supposed to do in Green Bay.

You put up the first post on the 2004 defense, im saying you cant judge him on 1 year so either drop 2004 or take '93 into account

[cmhargrove]

Well, we have been screwing with personnel nonstop so I think this defense is still a work in progress.

Who would have imagined we would pick up a Raider castoff on the D-line and start him the next week? I'm not saying Shaw is bad, but he is really learning on the fly. Now, we have two recent additions at Safety (one already starting), and its easy to see why we are mixed up.

We need - one bona fide pass rusher over 6'3" 275, and one hard hitting safety that knocks people's teeth out when they catch over the middle. I don't know if we can swing either this year, but with the Goodmans it wouldn't surprise me to see a trade for a D-End before the deadline.

We will be ok if our safeties come around. Otherwise, its all the "luck of the draw" if we get to the playoffs. All the other AFC teams have shown some weaknesses as well. There is not a team in our conference that is playing so well that they "scare me."

[dbfan21]

This defensive situation has been on my mind since Sunday evening. I am not sure how to correct it. I am far from an expert on defensive schemes, but I have watched enough football to understand what's working and what's broken.

So we cut Abdullah and sign Fox. I am not sure how that's going to improve things, unless Abdullah was still battling injuries from preseason and Shanahan told him either play with pain or we'll have to replace you. It looks like he chose the latter.

Our d-line has not been getting to the QB, which makes our defensive backfield look awful. I think that this is the real reason why SD and NO carved us up. Those are two of the best QBs in the NFL and when they have all day to throw, they are going to find someone open.

I don't mind some 3-4 defense to keep offenses guessing, but Robertson came from the Jets due to his ineffectiveness in that scheme. Plus, our DT's and DE's are not big enough to fight through double teams by 330lb o-linemen.

If I were in charge, I would play the 4-3 defense 90% of the time and send some blitzers from different areas. Send the LB's, send the S's, send the CB's...not all at once obviously, but at different points in the game. Even if we hurry the throw (and miss a sack), it will disrupt timing and cause the QB to make bad decisions.

[Beantown Bronco]

until the Broncos develop an effective pass rush and can stop the opposing team on 3rd downs, quality opponents will be able to march up and down the field at will for the rest of the year.

Luckily, we don't play many of those at all this season. Plenty of time to right the ship and get used to all the new personnel and coaching.

[lex]

You put up the first post on the 2004 defense, im saying you cant judge him on 1 year so either drop 2004 or take '93 into account

No, its not one or the other as you say. The two should not be equally weighted as you suggest. Your best case for him was 15 years ago. 2004 was 4 years ago. Plus, as I pointed out, his subsequent years in Chicago were pretty poor.

[bowtown]

Where the hell is Mediator when you need him?

[Willynowei]

No, its not one or the other as you say. The two should not be equally weighted as you suggest. Your best case for him was 15 years ago. 2004 was 4 years ago. Plus, as I pointed out, his subsequent years in Chicago were pretty poor.

That packer defense lost Darren Sharper amongst a host of other starters if I remember correctly. I'm not the one on here claiming slowik's the best thing since sliced bread. You're the one making assertions thus, the onus is on you to back it up with more than meaningless single season stats on a defense that he coordinated for only one year.

Mind you, Bates succeeded him and continued the futility for two more years before he left and was hired by us.

[bronco militia]

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[Willynowei]

This defensive situation has been on my mind since Sunday evening. I am not sure how to correct it. I am far from an expert on defensive schemes, but I have watched enough football to understand what's working and what's broken.

So we cut Abdullah and sign Fox. I am not sure how that's going to improve things, unless Abdullah was still battling injuries from preseason and Shanahan told him either play with pain or we'll have to replace you. It looks like he chose the latter.

Our d-line has not been getting to the QB, which makes our defensive backfield look awful. I think that this is the real reason why SD and NO carved us up. Those are two of the best QBs in the NFL and when they have all day to throw, they are going to find someone open.

I don't mind some 3-4 defense to keep offenses guessing, but Robertson came from the Jets due to his ineffectiveness in that scheme. Plus, our DT's and DE's are not big enough to fight through double teams by 330lb o-linemen.

If I were in charge, I would play the 4-3 defense 90% of the time and send some blitzers from different areas. Send the LB's, send the S's, send the CB's...not all at once obviously, but at different points in the game. Even if we hurry the throw (and miss a sack), it will disrupt timing and cause the QB to make bad decisions.


If you watched what we were trying to do, we came out (usually) in our base 4-3 package with a safety cheated into the box. They often ran it on first down for little to no gain. On second down, we would go into the three man rush and force a 2 to 3 yard gain making it a 3rd and 5.

We then run another zone on 3rd and I counted only 3 times that we successfully got Brees to throw the underneath route in that situation (3rd down) which means we are not getting enough depth in our drops or guys are just confused about their assignments.

In those 3 times we forced two three and outs (one incomplete pass, and one solid tackle by webster), the one other time, shockey caught it near the first down marker and lunged forward for the conversion.

It tells me that the game plan was just to get them to throw to their backs and Tightends and then make the tackle with our "athletic linebackers". Problem was that Brees usually found someone deeper because we of missed assignments in the zone, and when he didn't, Bush often beat his man (usually Bailey) in the flat for more yardage than we'd like to give up.

[Paladin]

Defense is so over rated....

They do not have to be much above average for the team to do well as a team. The O should continue to progress, and I do believe the D will get a bit better. But if it just "average" that is good enough to give visions of playoffs and more.

Naysayers be dammed. I am enjoying the heck out this team so far.....

[CasinoRoyal]

Broncos fans bitch too much for me. I swear.

[Smiling Assassin27]

I'm not talking statistically, I'm just speaking level of play here...

I'll keep it simple:

1.) We are fast.
1a.) We fly to the ball.

2.) Our D-line is fast.
2a.) They fly to the ball.

3.) We are a step slow on zones, blitzing, man pick up and reads because we are hesitating.
3a.) The players are hesitating because they are uncomfortable with the scheme.
3b.) They are clearly becoming more comfortable through each passing week.

After watching the replay i can say that almost all their critical conversions that game came because our players were hesitant in their zones. I've noticed and I'm very glad that when we run stunts and loops we were often getting pressure with 4 or 5 rushers. This means to me, that our woes are not due to physical inability (which can't be fixed over the course of a season).

Mentaly we aren't there yet but we will, and when we do, I will bump this thread.

P.S. to the people calling for Slowik's head due to his "ineptitude" in Greenbay, their defense sucked for 3 years after him when Bates took over. AND, when slowik took over the job for Chicago in 1993, he turned them from the 22nd ranked defense to the 3rd ranked defense and kept them in the top 10 for 3 of the next 4 seasons.

Not so bad eh? I will say yesterday his biggest mistake was trusting Bailey to stop Bush. That did not work well and the saints got multiple big 3rd down conversions on that. However, his scheme of condensing the field against Bush with the 3down linemen I believe - was a Shanahan idea: a guy who knows how much Brees loves his QB rating and always checks down when he's done with progressions.

It worked aslong as we did two things.

1.) Take away all completions behind the second level of the defense.
2.) Eliminate YAC especially from Bush and Shockey.

We did a good job of #2 but failed at #1. Alot of it had to do with again, hesitation and Brees good timing.

Are we playing Notre Dame every weekend from here on out? LOL

[telluride]

As the scientists say, we now have to live the experiment. The reality is that the defense we have now is the one we're going to have for the season. We're stuck with Slowik. We're stuck with the D-lineman we have. We're stuck with bad safeties.

Slowik can gimmick up the schemes and shuffle the lineup but we simply do not have the talent (on-field or coaching) to compete defensively this year. And don't expect some magical trade or FA pick-up to solve things. (In fact, if we make a panic trade and waste some of our picks I'm going to be pretty pissed off.)

At this point, the only sensible options are: 1) simplify the schemes and just let the players play; 2) Work in as many of the kids (JMFW, Woodyard, Barrett, etc.) as possible, and see what happens.

We should all just take pleasure in this very entertaining offense, and not expect anything from the defense. It's a transition year for the team, as we all knew. Our expectations should remain the same as they were at the outset: hope to taste the playoffs, and be happy if we do. Because despite our fast start we're still a 9-7 or 10-6 team, and we're still probably going to end up behind SD in the division. But at least the offense is going to be damned fun to watch.

[dbfan21]

If you watched what we were trying to do, we came out (usually) in our base 4-3 package with a safety cheated into the box. They often ran it on first down for little to no gain. On second down, we would go into the three man rush and force a 2 to 3 yard gain making it a 3rd and 5.

We then run another zone on 3rd and I counted only 3 times that we successfully got Brees to throw the underneath route in that situation (3rd down) which means we are not getting enough depth in our drops or guys are just confused about their assignments.

In those 3 times we forced two three and outs (one incomplete pass, and one solid tackle by webster), the one other time, shockey caught it near the first down marker and lunged forward for the conversion.

It tells me that the game plan was just to get them to throw to their backs and Tightends and then make the tackle with our "athletic linebackers". Problem was that Brees usually found someone deeper because we of missed assignments in the zone, and when he didn't, Bush often beat his man (usually Bailey) in the flat for more yardage than we'd like to give up.

I see your point. I recorded both the actual game and NFL Replay. I am going to go back and watch some defensive footage. I will be the first to admit, it's hard for me to key in on specific players while the game is live. I am too concerned with our team making a stop.

[lex]

That packer defense lost Darren Sharper amongst a host of other starters if I remember correctly. I'm not the one on here claiming slowik's the best thing since sliced bread. You're the one making assertions thus, the onus is on you to back it up with more than meaningless single season stats on a defense that he coordinated for only one year.

Mind you, Bates succeeded him and continued the futility for two more years before he left and was hired by us.

My burden? Youre the one who points to something 15 years ago while ignoring everything that has happened subsequently or attributing Slowiks failure to losing a safety.

[BroncoBen]

......I will say yesterday his biggest mistake was trusting Bailey to stop Bush. That did not work well and the saints got multiple big 3rd down conversions on that......

This I agree with.. For me Boss Bailey was brought in to cover the TEs, Gates in SD and Gonzales in KC. You can make the argument that he did the job against Gates since he had no touchdowns.

But Shockey ate his lunch on completions for 1st downs.

Now is Boss Bailey learning the system? or is he just not that good? I tend to go with the later.

[Willynowei]

My burden? Youre the one who points to something 15 years ago while ignoring everything that has happened subsequently or attributing Slowiks failure to losing a safety.

You made the point, mine was a counter point that you don't pick a single year in a defensive coaches career to critique him, especially when he was stepping in for a coach fired due to public angst against the coaching staff due to a single play. If you want to look at a guy's history to determine future performance you sure as heck better look at his entire career, not the single year that he inherited a injured defense who also lost plenty of starters to free agency. If it was entirely Slowik's fault, the packers would've turned it around immediately after his departure, but that is clearly not the case - thus, your argument fails.

[lex]

You made the point, mine was a counter point that you don't pick a single year in a defensive coaches career to critique him, especially when he was stepping in for a coach fired due to public angst against the coaching staff due to a single play. If you want to look at a guy's history to determine future performance you sure as heck better look at his entire career, not the single year that he inherited a injured defense who also lost plenty of starters to free agency. If it was entirely Slowik's fault, the packers would've turned it around immediately after his departure, but that is clearly not the case - thus, your argument fails.

Not really but believe what you want. When the last 14 years doesnt support your theory that he is competent, you become an apologist and blame the players. Believe what you want.

[Willynowei]

Not really but believe what you want. When the last 14 years doesnt support your theory that he is competent, you become an apologist and blame the players. Believe what you want.

I have no theory, I'm just pointing out that its premature to say Slowik is the main problem. You on the other hand is crying that the sky is falling.

So, when we start playing solid defense in the winter months, even climbing statistically into the teens, I will bump this thread and crow-smack you. And I will be relentless ;). But untill then, you can continue your obsessive crucifiction of our DC, how many times have you posted that link already? I'd bet its in the double digits.

[DB-Freak]

Our defense has been always fast.

That hasn't changed...

What's changed is the number of starter capable players which is really lacking.

[lex]

I have no theory, I'm just pointing out that its premature to say Slowik is the main problem. You on the other hand is crying that the sky is falling.

So, when we start playing solid defense in the winter months, even climbing statistically into the teens, I will bump this thread and crow-smack you. And I will be relentless ;). But untill then, you can continue your obsessive crucifiction of our DC, how many times have you posted that link already? I'd bet its in the double digits.

Go for it and then we get lit up against a team with a good QB at the end of the season, Ill also bump it.

[Cito Pelon]

Our defense has been always fast.

That hasn't changed...

What's changed is the number of starter capable players which is really lacking.

That's pretty much the bottom line. I'm keeping my fingers crossed hoping they'll gel as the season wears on, but the bottom line is there's not enough guys that can get to the QB, not enough guys with a nose for the ball. The D has been on the field for 185 plays, 107 of them passes, but have only 1 INT, 4 sacks, very few QB pressures and knockdowns.

I guess the D could go blitz heavy and that's certainly an option. I don't think Shanny wants to do that, and he does have a say in how the D is run.

[Willynowei]

Its only one game but things are comming together!