Shanahan's staff

[Broncosmang]

Just a quick observation on my part. As bright a mind as Mike is I've always been concerned about his inability to assemble quality staffs. After winning two Super Bowls he's had one, that's right one assistant go on to a head coaching position in the league. Compare that to Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, shoot even Bill Cowher and you begin to see my point. He also seems to chase off guys with proven track records without giving them the time or the tools to truly implement their systems (see Rhodes, Bates and potentially Obrien)

What do you guys think? It may be that hangover after nearly blowing the lead in the Chargers game, but we have enough defensive talent to at least scheme with and we can't even seem to do that.

[2KBack]

uh...that could be because he's an offensive guy and had pretty much the same offensive staff for a decade.

[Broncosmang]

No he didn't other than Kubes. Dorrell went elsewhere. Heimerdinger went elswhere. What I'm saying is if you've got all these great minds on your staff. Why doesn't anyone else want to hire them?

[broncosteven]

Haven't a couple guys gon on to College as HC? Robinson comes to mind.

Why is other people's success a measuring stick for Shanny's?

[BroncoBuff]

I agree about the defense not scheming much ... I saw nothing but vanilla.

[2KBack]

didn't you just kind of answer your own question? Kubiak went elsewhere, Dinger interviewed for the Jets Head coaching position, Dorrell became a college headcoach. We almost lose Bobby Turner every year it seems. Coyer is working for Tampa Bay.

Also here's a question for you...does the headcoach make a great staff, or does a great staff make a headcoach?

[Broncosmang]

Haven't a couple guys gon on to College as HC? Robinson comes to mind.

Why is other people's success a measuring stick for Shanny's?

Because if you've got bright guys on your coaching staff inevitably they'll get a job somwhere else. I'm not saying shanny's not a good coach, but other than Gibbs and Kubiak who would you say we've had on the staff that was a great football mind. It limits your ability to succeed when you surround yourself with average football coaches.

[Fedaykin]

.. because unlike the other coaches his talent lies in coaching, not personnel?

[Broncosmang]

didn't you just kind of answer your own question? Kubiak went elsewhere, Dinger interviewed for the Jets Head coaching position, Dorrell became a college headcoach. We almost lose Bobby Turner every year it seems. Coyer is working for Tampa Bay.

Also here's a question for you...does the headcoach make a great staff, or does a great staff make a headcoach?

I didn't answer anything. Mike is a great head coach. Look at the guys that came out of Walsh's tutelage. We all know the list. Shoot even Tony Dungy's got a couple of protege's who are now head coaches.

[24champ]

Former TE coach Brewster left us to be a Head Coach for the Gophers.

[24champ]

Another coach named Troy Calhoun. that worked in the Broncos system and left to be the OC for Kubes and the Texans. Now he is a HC for the Air Force Falcons.

[2KBack]

I didn't answer anything. Mike is a great head coach. Look at the guys that came out of Walsh's tutelage. We all know the list. Shoot even Tony Dungy's got a couple of protege's who are now head coaches.

you listed several guys that have been hired from Shanahans staff, that's what you want right?

Kubiak
Hemerdinger
Robinson
Coyer
Dorrell

Dennison and Jeremy Bates seem to be doing a pretty damn good job right now too.

So Shanahan's staff isn't as good as Walsh's who's is?

[FireFly]

Haven't a couple guys gon on to College as HC? Robinson comes to mind.

Why is other people's success a measuring stick for Shanny's?

I think it's a valid measuring stick for success of one particular aspect of his tenure.

[broncosteven]

I didn't answer anything. Mike is a great head coach. Look at the guys that came out of Walsh's tutelage. We all know the list. Shoot even Tony Dungy's got a couple of protege's who are now head coaches.

For every Mike Holmgren there is a Marty Morningweig (sp?)

I think a lot of it is flavor of the month.

Brian Billick had guys go on to get a HC job, they suck.

Dave Wannstedt came out of Jimmy Johnson's shadow twice and failed miserably. I still remember how excited Duh Bears fans were.

Measure his success by the fact that he only has 3 sub .500 seasons in his career.

[Taco John]

Meh. All I care about is winning football games. I'll let other people worry about whether or not Shanahan is seeding the league with high quality coaches or not.

[Rock Chalk]

you listed several guys that have been hired from Shanahans staff, that's what you want right?

Kubiak
Hemerdinger
Robinson
Coyer
Dorrell

Dennison and Jeremy Bates seem to be doing a pretty damn good job right now too.

So Shanahan's staff isn't as good as Walsh's who's is?
Right. Shanahan is a great coach but Walsh was of the Lombardi ilk. Truly unique.

[broncosteven]

Meh. All I care about is winning football games. I'll let other people worry about whether or not Shanahan is seeding the league with high quality coaches or not.

I am glad that Shanny retains the good guys. Look at how long Bobby Turner, Steve Watson, and even Kubes have been around.

Couple of guys he had did their niche very well and have been recognized as the best at their speciality. Turner and Gibbs.

Shanny also is not adverse to signing old Bronco players like Dennison and Watson.

[broncosteven]

Right. Shanahan is a great coach but Walsh was of the Lombardi ilk. Truly unique.

If we are measuring the greatest coach with the hands down greatest staff ever than the slam dunk is Jim Lee Howell.

He had Lombardi as OC and Tom Landry at DC

[dsmoot]

Right. Shanahan is a great coach but Walsh was of the Lombardi ilk. Truly unique.

Name the pedigree from Lombardi that was successful.

Starr
Gregg
Bengsten
Bratkowski ?????

I may be missing some others. I would not classify these guys as highly successful in the head coaching area. However, look at the individuals who played for Lombardi. The championship teams produced many, many successful individuals beyond the football years. The players to a man credit Lombardi for their success in life. The point is, not even the greatest football coach in NFL history does not insure a great coaching pedigree. He was highly influential in other ways.

Walsh is highly successful in producing "offspring" but it was a different era than Lombardi. Walsh related to others in quite a different way than Lombardi. Shanahan is much like Lombardi in the sense he is highly autocratic. I don't think that lends itself to creating great coaches.

[broncosteven]

Name the pedigree from Lombardi that was successful.

Starr
Gregg
Bengsten
Bratkowski ?????

I may be missing some others. I would not classify these guys as highly successful in the head coaching area. However, look at the individuals who played for Lombardi. The championship teams produced many, many successful individuals beyond the football years. The players to a man credit Lombardi for their success in life. The point is, not even the greatest football coach in NFL history does not insure a great coaching pedigree. He was highly influential in other ways.

Walsh is highly successful in producing "offspring" but it was a different era than Lombardi. Walsh related to others in quite a different way than Lombardi. Shanahan is much like Lombardi in the sense he is highly autocratic. I don't think that lends itself to creating great coaches.

Gregg made it to the SB with Cinncy.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Troy Calhoun was also a shanny staff member, right?

[IHaveALight]

The trend in the league is to promote coordinators of teams that go deep into the playoffs. Since the Super Bowl years the Broncos have only done that once, followed by Kubes going to Houston. So really, it's no surprise that Shanahan hasn't produced more head coaches.
In addition, since Shanahan is an offensive coach his protégé’s would come from that side of the field. We had Kubes in that spot for what 10 years or so? And if I remember right after the Super Bowls he was offered a HC job, but declined it.
If this offense keeps rolling and the Broncos start going deep in the playoffs again, guys like Dennison and Bates will be getting offers.

[dsmoot]

Gregg made it to the SB with Cinncy.

I did not remember that. What was his overall record. I remember an overall mediocre record (75 - 85). Browns, Bengal, Packers. I think Starr had a few ok years.

[broncosteven]

I did not remember that. What was his overall record. I remember an overall mediocre record (75 - 85). Browns, Bengal, Packers. I think Starr had a few ok years.

Starr sucked in a bad division.

He seems like a standup guy but didn't seem to have the nack for coaching. Having Lynn Dickie as your QB doesn't help.

I should reread When Pride Mattered, he talked about the Lombardi lineage, But alas I cannot remember.

[CasinoRoyal]

Does'nt seem like something im even worried about at this point of the year.

COme talk to me about this in the off season.

[Broncosmang]

Starr sucked in a bad division.

He seems like a standup guy but didn't seem to have the nack for coaching. Having Lynn Dickie as your QB doesn't help.

I should reread When Pride Mattered, he talked about the Lombardi lineage, But alas I cannot remember.


Dude I keep saying it over and over and over again. I'm not trying to make the assertion that Shanny is not a great coach. I personally think he's one of the all time greats. The point I'm trying to make is that part of our struggle in getting back to the big game has been the staffs that he has assembled.

Beyond Kubes, Turner and Gibbs none of the other names impress me. And turner and Gibbs are great position coaches, not coordinators. Dorell failed miserably at UCLA. Brewster has really turned things around for the Golden Gophers right? Heimerdinger? Robinson? Give me a break. I've never been impressed with Dennison as a position coach until this year. When he had special teams they were awful. The o line was awful until Gibbs came back and reasserted himself after Dennison was originally promoted.

Read the post once more if you need to. One last time. I'm not trying to say that Shanny isn't a great head coach. He is and I don't want anyone else coaching my team. What I'm saying is that his staffs ie Slowik especially on the defensive side of the ball seem to be subpar.

[Ray Finkle]

Dude I keep saying it over and over and over again. I'm not trying to make the assertion that Shanny is not a great coach. I personally think he's one of the all time greats. The point I'm trying to make is that part of our struggle in getting back to the big game has been the staffs that he has assembled.

Beyond Kubes, Turner and Gibbs none of the other names impress me. And turner and Gibbs are great position coaches, not coordinators. Dorell failed miserably at UCLA. Brewster has really turned things around for the Golden Gophers right? Heimerdinger? Robinson? Give me a break. I've never been impressed with Dennison as a position coach until this year. When he had special teams they were awful. The o line was awful until Gibbs came back and reasserted himself after Dennison was originally promoted.

Read the post once more if you need to. One last time. I'm not trying to say that Shanny isn't a great head coach. He is and I don't want anyone else coaching my team. What I'm saying is that his staffs ie Slowik especially on the defensive side of the ball seem to be subpar.

name all the successful coaches from Holmgren, Cowher, Billacheat....

that leaves you what, McCarthy out of that crew?

[TheReverend]

continuation of thread title:

"...must be enormous to go for the 2 point."

[Broncosmang]

name all the successful coaches from Holmgren, Cowher, Billacheat....

that leaves you what, McCarthy out of that crew?

yeah, oh and Andy Reid, John Gruden, Romeo Crennel. Just a bunch of guys no one's ever heard of.

[DomCasual]

I usually don't make comments about spelling...

...but,

IT'S SHANAHAN! ONE N! NOT TWO Ns! ONE FREAKING N!

He's been the coach here for almost fifteen years! You've probably seen his printed name 10,000 times.

ONE N!

That's all. I'm glad I could get that off my chest.

[Odysseus]

Why can't Shanahan hire a DC worth a crap?

[Broncosmang]

I usually don't make comments about spelling...

...but,

IT'S SHANAHAN! ONE N! NOT TWO Ns! ONE FREAKING N!

He's been the coach here for almost fifteen years! You've probably seen his printed name 10,000 times.

ONE N!

That's all. I'm glad I could get that off my chest.

bold much prick? I noticed it after I posted it in delirium early this morning, but guess what? I don't know that you can change the title of a thread after posting it.

ps I figured out how to do it after reading your well stated post.

[DomCasual]

bold much prick? I noticed it after I posted it in delirium early this morning, but guess what? I don't know that you can change the title of a thread after posting it.

ps I figured out how to do it after reading your well stated post.

Prick? :D

Nice.

[lex]

Just a quick observation on my part. As bright a mind as Mike is I've always been concerned about his inability to assemble quality staffs. After winning two Super Bowls he's had one, that's right one assistant go on to a head coaching position in the league. Compare that to Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, shoot even Bill Cowher and you begin to see my point. He also seems to chase off guys with proven track records without giving them the time or the tools to truly implement their systems (see Rhodes, Bates and potentially Obrien)

What do you guys think? It may be that hangover after nearly blowing the lead in the Chargers game, but we have enough defensive talent to at least scheme with and we can't even seem to do that.

I agree completely, though there are plenty of apologists around here who will disagree. I dont think our blitz schemes are very good given the absence of a pass rush (aside when those times where Dumervil is not being held). Another thing with this is that we have Engelberger in there which is forfeiting any kind of pass rush from his position.

[TotallyScrewed]

Meh. All I care about is winning football games. I'll let other people worry about whether or not Shanahan is seeding the league with high quality coaches or not.

Exactly, I don't get the concern. The next thing that people will question is why hasn't Shanny written a great football book? Or why other teams aren't offering gross numbers of dollars and picks to Pat Bowlen for Shanny?

Win games for Denver. Return to the playoffs and then title contention and I'm pretty happy.

Everything else...meh.

[Malcontent]

For every Mike Holmgren there is a Marty Morningweig (sp?)

I think a lot of it is flavor of the month.

Brian Billick had guys go on to get a HC job, they suck.

Dave Wannstedt came out of Jimmy Johnson's shadow twice and failed miserably. I still remember how excited Duh Bears fans were.

Measure his success by the fact that he only has 3 sub .500 seasons in his career.

Amen Brother! Coaching staff offspring is sooo overrated.