Homeland Security Wants to X-Ray Your Car… With You in It

[alkemical]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-09-17-car-scanner_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

A controversial new X-ray technology is being tested that could stop potential terrorists from blowing up a car bomb at one of the nation's airports, homeland security officials say.

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is running a test at a North Carolina ferry terminal of a 21-foot-high arch-like machine that shoots low-intensity X-rays at cars as they pass through. The photos show whether explosives or drugs might be in the car.

The technology, called backscatter X-ray, is in use at several airports to screen passengers. Privacy advocates have denounced scanning people as invasive because the X-rays can see through clothes.

Melissa Ngo, a Washington, D.C., lawyer who focuses on privacy issues, says using the technology for cars could pave the way for "Big Brother" government spying.

"If this technology ends up being deployed widely, it seems to be another step toward a society where you need to accept surveillance in every part of your life," Ngo says.

TSA Assistant Administrator John Sammon said motorist privacy won't be invaded because taking X-rays of cars "is a fairly non-intrusive way of being able to inspect vehicles that are coming in" to an airport. At many airports, cars are currently stopped at random and searched by authorities.

Sammon said the TSA has made no decision about using the X-ray portals at airports. The four-week test at a small ferry terminal in Cherry Branch, N.C., will gauge public reaction and the machine's ability to find bombs, Sammon said.

Searches escalated last summer after two men with ties to al-Qaeda drove an SUV into entrance doors at Glasgow Airport in Scotland, igniting a fire. Sammon said the test is not related to the Glasgow terror attack.

The TSA has no intelligence pointing to a potential car bombing at an airport, Sammon said, adding that the X-ray machine could be useful if there was such a threat. "Rather than stopping all vehicles or doing random checks, you could run vehicles, especially large-panel trucks, through the machine," Sammon said.

Ferry officials say the X-ray portal has intrigued but not alarmed motorists lining up for the 20-minute ferry ride from Cherry Branch across the Neuse River to Minnesott Beach on North Carolina's coast. "I am not aware of any complaints," said David Lewis, security coordinator for the North Carolina Ferry Division.

Similar machines are protecting military bases in the USA and in Afghanistan, said Joe Reiss, head of marketing for manufacturer American Science and Engineering. The machines, first marketed last year, cost $1.2 million to $1.7 million.

[theAPAOps5]

They used to do this in East Germany when you would travel to Berlin. The USSR would xray cars too look for false bottoms and such.

[alkemical]

They used to do this in East Germany when you would travel to Berlin. The USSR would xray cars too look for false bottoms and such.

Hmmm - what are you trying to say.... ;)

[Garcia Bronco]

I don't have a probelm with this as long as they get a warrant for every car from a judge.

[Spider]

I dont get Xrayed , but I do get searched , drug tested ...etc

[USAFBronco]

Here's my stance on this, if you're not hiding anything who cares? Let them scan my car see all my basketball, bowling equipment in there. Hell even if there was some intimate stuff, who cares still? That isn't what the people are looking for, they'll probably just look over it anyways.



It's my stance with wire tapping too, If they really want to listen to me talk in a baby voice or w/e to my GF who cares. I don't know, I guess I'm not a private person.

[Denver Crush]

Here's my stance on this, if you're not hiding anything who cares? Let them scan my car see all my basketball, bowling equipment in there. Hell even if there was some intimate stuff, who cares still? That isn't what the people are looking for, they'll probably just look over it anyways.



It's my stance with wire tapping too, If they really want to listen to me talk in a baby voice or w/e to my GF who cares. I don't know, I guess I'm not a private person.

Ever read the book 1984? If not pick up a copy and read it.

[snowspot66]

Here's my stance. What are the health effects?

[cutthemdown]

If it's only at airports then I don't have a problem with it.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Ever read the book 1984? If not pick up a copy and read it.

Yeah, i reckon a carbomb exploding at LAX is MUCH better for America than some technology that could prevent it...ROFL! The technology itself is morally neutral. HOW it is used is where the rub is.

[alkemical]

Here's my stance on this, if you're not hiding anything who cares? Let them scan my car see all my basketball, bowling equipment in there. Hell even if there was some intimate stuff, who cares still? That isn't what the people are looking for, they'll probably just look over it anyways.



It's my stance with wire tapping too, If they really want to listen to me talk in a baby voice or w/e to my GF who cares. I don't know, I guess I'm not a private person.

You are violating the constitution.

[gyldenlove]

If they stick that thing in front of airports they need to make exemptions for bus drivers and cab drivers who go there many times per day. It would be way too dangerous to go through that kind of thing multiple times every day.

[alkemical]

If they stick that thing in front of airports they need to make exemptions for bus drivers and cab drivers who go there many times per day. It would be way too dangerous to go through that kind of thing multiple times every day.

But there might be a bomb!!!

[Bronco Bob]

If the x-rays are strong enough to penetrate the steel of a car body,
then that is some pretty strong stuff, a lot stronger than a chest x-ray
for sure. Or the x-rays used at the boarding gate, that only has
to go through a few millimeters of cloth.
Has anyone accessed what the health risks of this are?

[kappys]

If the x-rays are strong enough to penetrate the steel of a car body,
then that is some pretty strong stuff, a lot stronger than a chest x-ray
for sure. Or the x-rays used at the boarding gate, that only has
to go through a few millimeters of cloth.
Has anyone accessed what the health risks of this are?

A lot less of a risk than a bomb

[Bronco Yoda]

So we have to start wearing lead underwear and tin-foil hats to the airport now?

Good thing I don't leave the house without these fashion accessories anyway.

[snowspot66]

A lot less of a risk than a bomb

I'm pretty sure cancer kills more people in the U.S. every year than bombs do.

[gyldenlove]

If the x-rays are strong enough to penetrate the steel of a car body,
then that is some pretty strong stuff, a lot stronger than a chest x-ray
for sure. Or the x-rays used at the boarding gate, that only has
to go through a few millimeters of cloth.
Has anyone accessed what the health risks of this are?

Since they rely on backscatter, they could do it with x-rays in the same energy range as those used for diagnostic radiology. The dose is still going to be considerable for someone who has to pass through one of those things every day though.

[kappys]

I'm pretty sure cancer kills more people in the U.S. every year than bombs do.

I thought I had put the sarcastic emoticon on the end of my line. whoops ROFL!

[ScottXray]

Since they rely on backscatter, they could do it with x-rays in the same energy range as those used for diagnostic radiology. The dose is still going to be considerable for someone who has to pass through one of those things every day though.

I work in the medical Xray industry and in order to get enough dose to see INTO a trunk or the frame of a car, you are talking substantial amounts. Also
the SCATTER radiation is more hazardous to health than the initial beam, as it gives off Higher doses in the body, which because they have lower energy rates are stopped IN the body.

Even sensitive detectors require enough dose to allow you to get an adequate signal to noise ratio to define anything as basic as rubber or Plastique. If they are going to do this the Bureau of Radiological Health is going to have to redefine a whole BUNCH of acceptable limits standards.

By the way radiation has negative effects on certain types of Plastic, and semiconductors such as condenser microphones. Plastics, which as we all know are substantial parts of most cars now, can accept single doses like this, but repeated exposures will eventually cause material brittleness and failures.

Without people in the cars, I can see this as something to be investigated, and used in limited situations, but routine use is not probably practical or safe.

[gunns]

This country has always operated under fear. Michael Moore's movies are controversial but I couldn't have agreed more in his one movie where he expounded on the fear we continously live under for a variety of things. The Bush administration has taken it a staircase further and I believe people are getting oversaturated with it.

The really sad thing is that Osama Bin Laden and his cronies attacked our country and in effect our way of life. We have lost some freedoms as a result and as it continues, to an extent, they have achieved what they set out to do.

[Spider]

hell I want those x ray glasses that let you see through womens clothes ;D

[alkemical]

I really can't believe so many people are willing to give up your rights - in the names of "well i have nothing to hide" and "It's better than a bomb at LAX".

Uhm, yeah. First off, the nothing to hide comment is ****ing stupid. Not because you indeed have something to hide - but i don't feel the gov't has any right or reason to circumvent the 4th amendment. Secondly - "better than a bomb" - uhm - i'm sorry - i didn't realize you were so scared. Get over it you pussy.

Are we a country that's this soft? Again - **** YOU AMERICAN VOTERS

[alkemical]

hell I want those x ray glasses that let you see through womens clothes ;D

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=70977

[TailgateNut]

I really can't believe so many people are willing to give up your rights - in the names of "well i have nothing to hide" and "It's better than a bomb at LAX".

Uhm, yeah. First off, the nothing to hide comment is ****ing stupid. Not because you indeed have something to hide - but i don't feel the gov't has any right or reason to circumvent the 4th amendment. Secondly - "better than a bomb" - uhm - i'm sorry - i didn't realize you were so scared. Get over it you p***Y.

Are we a country that's this soft? Again - **** YOU AMERICAN VOTERS

They should put one of these things at every intersection and they should also have CCTV monitoring of every home. Can't be too safe.;)

[alkemical]

They should put one of these things at every intersection and they should also have CCTV monitoring of every home. Can't be too safe.;)

I'd really like to know why these people that support intrusion into your life, really want a facist/totalitarian type gov't.

I mean "i've got nothing to hide", but instead you are giving UP so much. It's not about hiding anything. It's the permission you are granting The State.

[kappys]

I'd really like to know why these people that support intrusion into your life, really want a facist/totalitarian type gov't.

I mean "i've got nothing to hide", but instead you are giving UP so much. It's not about hiding anything. It's the permission you are granting The State.

Slave mentality. There are those that believe the best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship.

[MplsBronco]

Here's my stance on this, if you're not hiding anything who cares? Let them scan my car see all my basketball, bowling equipment in there. Hell even if there was some intimate stuff, who cares still? That isn't what the people are looking for, they'll probably just look over it anyways.



It's my stance with wire tapping too, If they really want to listen to me talk in a baby voice or w/e to my GF who cares. I don't know, I guess I'm not a private person.

I guess you don't understand the concept of FREEDOM!

[MplsBronco]

I'd really like to know why these people that support intrusion into your life, really want a facist/totalitarian type gov't.

I mean "i've got nothing to hide", but instead you are giving UP so much. It's not about hiding anything. It's the permission you are granting The State.


It's the old saying about the Nazi era. When they came for the gays, I wasn't one so I didn't speak up. When they came for the Jews, I wasnt' one so I didn't speak up, etc. When they came for me, there was no on left to speak up. Or something to that effect. You can't open that Pandora's box but unfortunately it's too late and will only get worse.

[alkemical]

Slave mentality. There are those that believe the best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship.

It's the old saying about the Nazi era. When they came for the gays, I wasn't one so I didn't speak up. When they came for the Jews, I wasnt' one so I didn't speak up, etc. When they came for me, there was no on left to speak up. Or something to that effect. You can't open that Pandora's box but unfortunately it's too late and will only get worse.


I just don't get it still... You know what i mean guys. I don't understand the rational of being someone's slave.

[USAFBronco]

You are violating the constitution.


I guess I wasn't specific enough, I apologize; I have no issue with this if it stays within the confines of an airport, I'm not advocating them being allowed to drive around a mall parking lot x raying cars or randomly tagging people walking down the road. Within the context of an Airport this is perfectly resonable(if they can figure out a way to do it without the negitive health effects). Do you bitch about your 4th Amendment rights being violated when they make you take your shoes off and put them and you bag through the Xray?

I guess what made me come off as a w/e I don't care what you listen to, I have nothing to hide person was the phone and wire tapping, my bad, again should've been more specific, they don't have the right to(nor should they) to listen to me calling my GF or my freind down the street, but if it's international calls to "high threat" countries I don't really see the issue as long as it's heavily regulated

[Spider]

I just don't get it still... You know what i mean guys. I don't understand the rational of being someone's slave.

the mentality belongs to the people who fear going at it alone , like the Muslim faith for example , everything they are to do is spelled out , when to pray , fast , etc , where as Christianity , it is a lot more broad ........as to government , people are afraid to fail so they dont want to give an effort in decision making , it is much safer to have someone else call the shots .......

[USAFBronco]

I guess you don't understand the concept of FREEDOM!

I completely understand it. I guess this is a difference of how I was raised, I was essesially raised without this right(4th Amendment) since I lived on Air Force bases for the first 20 years of my life. On military installations everything is subject to search with or without probable cause; so I grew up with the mentality that as long as I have nothing to hide, let them search me or my car.

To give an example I once was stopped coming on base and they had me pull over to be searched, I was a little mad simply because I was trying to get home but it happens, this is life. The found nothing in the car(the made me open everything from the hood to the little consoles on my dashboard) outside of a baseball bat which they proceeded to give me s**t for asking why I had it and I told them they were dumb, I play baseball with my freinds, have HR derbies w/ tennis balls all the time. That was that and they let me carry on my way.

Is it a good menality to have? I don't know, is it a bad one to have? I don't think so. I'm still a firm believer in upholding all constitutional rights and freedoms but it seems that the only people who ever are up in arms about this situation are the people that were doing something wrong in the first place.

[USAFBronco]

I just don't get it still... You know what i mean guys. I don't understand the rational of being someone's slave.


I am not a slave simply because I don't care if I get X-rayed going to an airport. I've yet to see anyone here say yea **** it, they should be able to do what ever they want all in the name of HLS, outside of my initial post, which I above expanded on.

It's one thing to get X-rayed at an airport and it's a whole different thing to be forced to wear a golden star on your jacket.

[alkemical]

I guess I wasn't specific enough, I apologize; I have no issue with this if it stays within the confines of an airport, I'm not advocating them being allowed to drive around a mall parking lot x raying cars or randomly tagging people walking down the road. Within the context of an Airport this is perfectly resonable(if they can figure out a way to do it without the negitive health effects). Do you b**** about your 4th Amendment rights being violated when they make you take your shoes off and put them and you bag through the Xray?

I guess what made me come off as a w/e I don't care what you listen to, I have nothing to hide person was the phone and wire tapping, my bad, again should've been more specific, they don't have the right to(nor should they) to listen to me calling my GF or my freind down the street, but if it's international calls to "high threat" countries I don't really see the issue as long as it's heavily regulated


Fair enough on the airport -

But for the phone tapping the wire taps issue wasn't just for an int'l call. Check out the FISA-Telecom immunity bill.

[gyldenlove]

I completely understand it. I guess this is a difference of how I was raised, I was essesially raised without this right(4th Amendment) since I lived on Air Force bases for the first 20 years of my life. On military installations everything is subject to search with or without probable cause; so I grew up with the mentality that as long as I have nothing to hide, let them search me or my car.

To give an example I once was stopped coming on base and they had me pull over to be searched, I was a little mad simply because I was trying to get home but it happens, this is life. The found nothing in the car(the made me open everything from the hood to the little consoles on my dashboard) outside of a baseball bat which they proceeded to give me s**t for asking why I had it and I told them they were dumb, I play baseball with my freinds, have HR derbies w/ tennis balls all the time. That was that and they let me carry on my way.

Is it a good menality to have? I don't know, is it a bad one to have? I don't think so. I'm still a firm believer in upholding all constitutional rights and freedoms but it seems that the only people who ever are up in arms about this situation are the people that were doing something wrong in the first place.

So if you work for homeland security and they wire tap your call to your doctor and find out you have a disease and fire you before they have to fork out the health bill?

You have a right to privacy and confidentiality, that right is being taken from you when they can look into all your secrets without probable cause.

Has the department of homeland security ever done anything good?

[Rohirrim]

Ever notice that the guy who gives you an x-ray is hiding behind a lead wall? ;D

[USAFBronco]

So if you work for homeland security and they wire tap your call to your doctor and find out you have a disease and fire you before they have to fork out the health bill?

You have a right to privacy and confidentiality, that right is being taken from you when they can look into all your secrets without probable cause.

Has the department of homeland security ever done anything good?

That's a complete abuse of power and using the system for something it wasn't meant for, clearly that is wrong. That's like saying Cops shouldn't have guns because hell, they can shoot people in the face. If there are strict regulations on something and it's for a very very specific purpose it's okay in my opinion. I've yet to say I advocate 100% just tapping who ever for whatever.

Has the Dep of HSL done anything good? I would say yes since there has been um how many sucuessful attacks on us? I know "blah blah that's just fear mongering" but what other way can you judge it? As soon as something does happen people will be all over thier **** saying OMG IT DOESNT WORK!

[USAFBronco]

Ever notice that the guy who gives you an x-ray is hiding behind a lead wall? ;D

Now this is perfectly safe, stay here while I hid behind this wall Ha!

[Rohirrim]

I'd like to x-ray Ann Coulter. Just out of curiousity.

[Bronco Bob]

I'd really like to know why these people that support intrusion into your life, really want a facist/totalitarian type gov't.

I mean "i've got nothing to hide", but instead you are giving UP so much. It's not about hiding anything. It's the permission you are granting The State.

Ironically these very same people tend to be right wingers that
spout the RNC/Reagan talking points about getting the government
off their backs. And have deluded themselves into thinking that
the ACLU is evil.