Why a Vote for McCain Means a Vote for More War [Archive] - The Orange Mane

Rohirrim

09-11-2008, 03:58 PM

In depth biographical piece on John McCain in the Atlantic. Draws very clear distinctions between the world views of McCain and Obama.

John McCain has been said to have neoconservative inclinations; to critics, this suggests a commitment to the unilateral deployment of military force to bring about a democratic transformation in once-hostile countries. The question of whether he’s a neocon, however, is not entirely relevant; McCain has advisers from both the neocon and realist camps, and he’s too inconsistent to be easily labeled. In one area, though, he has been more or less constant: his belief in the power of war to solve otherwise insoluble problems. This ideology of action has not been undermined by his horrific experience as a tortured POW during the Vietnam War, or by the Bush administration’s disastrous execution of the Iraq War. All this is not to suggest that McCain is heedlessly bellicose or reflexively willing to send U.S. soldiers into danger; he is the father of a marine and a Naval Academy midshipman, James McCain and John S. McCain IV, whose service he rarely mentions. And he opposed, presciently, keeping the Marines in Beirut in 1983, just before their barracks were bombed. But his willingness to speak frankly about the utility of military intervention sets him apart from his opponent. Senator Obama, though certainly no pacifist, envisions a world of cooperation and diplomacy; McCain sees a world of organic conflict and zero-sum competition.http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200810/mccain

TheDave

09-11-2008, 04:01 PM

Smiling Assassin27

09-11-2008, 04:05 PM

with obama having declared that he'd immediately sign the Freedom of Choice Act, the war on 1.4 million unborn persons per year would commence as well.

Rohirrim

09-11-2008, 04:06 PM

Some here will rub one out in McCains honor after reading that.

Personally i would like to have some leadership that understands there are a couple of steps that should to be taken prior to Carpet bombing someone.

The effect of the whole article is pretty chilling. McCain is locked into cold war sensibilities and militaristic thinking.

Hogan11

09-11-2008, 04:09 PM

with obama having declared that he'd immediately sign the Freedom of Choice Act, the war on 1.4 million unborn persons per year would commence as well.

Good...bunch of germ spewing, money sucking little vampires anyways Ha!

TheDave

09-11-2008, 04:11 PM

The effect of the whole article is pretty chilling. McCain is locked into cold war sensibilities and militaristic thinking.

Boy I hope people realize this before they pull that lever this November.

Hogan11

09-11-2008, 04:12 PM

Boy I hope people realize this before they pull that lever this November.

But...but what about the real issues here? That lipstick thing is pretty damn important you know!

Rohirrim

09-11-2008, 04:26 PM

with obama having declared that he'd immediately sign the Freedom of Choice Act, the war on 1.4 million unborn persons per year would commence as well.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's ever possible to post a thread in here without some Rightie coming in and trying to deflect it away. Judging by McCain's campaign I guess that's the basic Rightie mindset: "Quick! Look over here!" :pity:

TheDave

09-11-2008, 04:27 PM

with obama having declared that he'd immediately sign the Freedom of Choice Act, the war on 1.4 million unborn persons per year would commence as well.

We get it... You're a single issue voter and you vote "Pro Life"... :thumbs:

Rank&File

09-11-2008, 04:29 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if it's ever possible to post a thread in here without some Rightie coming in and trying to deflect it away. Judging by McCain's campaign I guess that's the basic Rightie mindset: "Quick! Look over here!" :pity:

That's why I don't hang in here much anymore. It happens in every thread, and it's not only "righties."

Dudeskey

09-11-2008, 04:47 PM

Its a shame this isn't the same McCain that ran in 2000... not even close™

Bronco Bob

09-11-2008, 10:44 PM

with obama having declared that he'd immediately sign the Freedom of Choice Act, the war on 1.4 million unborn persons per year would commence as well.

How can something that isn't even born yet be a person?

That's like calling a pile of sheet metal and glass a Ferrari.

BroncoBuff

09-11-2008, 11:20 PM

The effect of the whole article is pretty chilling. McCain is locked into cold war sensibilities and militaristic thinking.
I clearly remember a network news report during the 2000 primaries in which they detailed McCain's unwavering support for all American military actions during his public life. In fact, they cited examples where he advocated military action where none was taken. This was before the catastrophic Iraq fiasco of course, and therefore the report was actually kind of complimetary for his "unwavering" support. But now this Atlantic article added to that record stokes the (probably accurate) theory that McCain is a warmonger, plain and simple. Five-plus years in a prison camp, while a powerful personal testament to his strength, is a negative indicator to me for his temperament to be president. Especially with his well-documented anger problem thrown in the mix.

There is a sound bite from McCain in this primary season where he says (paraphrasing but accurately), "I know this war has been tough, but it's worth it. And I have news for you, there will be more wars." I'm telling you, that is an honest-to-goodness McCain soundbite from the past year. And if it doesn't show up in lots and lots of Obama/527 ads, I will be very disappointed.

BroncoInferno

09-12-2008, 06:17 AM

How can something that isn't even born yet be a person?

That's like calling a pile of sheet metal and glass a Ferrari.

Assasin is apparently a single issue voter. Never mind the fact that the Bush/McCain policies gets folks outside the womb killed. Once you escape from between your mothers legs, you're on your own, I guess.

TailgateNut

09-12-2008, 06:34 AM

How can something that isn't even born yet be a person?

That's like calling a pile of sheet metal and glass a Ferrari.

:rofl:

TheDave

09-12-2008, 06:39 AM

People need to read this...

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200810/mccain

Traveler

09-12-2008, 06:42 AM

W*GS

09-12-2008, 08:03 AM

How can something that isn't even born yet be a person?

If you aren't morally conflicted about abortion, you haven't thought about it much.

The problem with the extreme pro-lifers is that they believe there are no good reasons for an abortion; the problem with the extreme pro-choicers is that they believe there are no bad reasons.

NaptownChief

09-12-2008, 08:14 AM

I'm beginning to wonder if it's ever possible to post a thread in here without some Rightie coming in and trying to deflect it away. Judging by McCain's campaign I guess that's the basic Rightie mindset: "Quick! Look over here!" :pity:

Why wouldn't they? It isn't like you are in here posting articles about the good work going to be done by Hussein Osama but rather nearly all your posts are slinging mud at the Republicans.

What you seem to forget Republicans aren't spineless creatures like John Kerry and Hussein Osama, they will fight back rather than roll over like the French.

NaptownChief

09-12-2008, 08:17 AM

How can something that isn't even born yet be a person?

That's like calling a pile of sheet metal and glass a Ferrari.

Regardless of where you want to draw the line on a beating heart and the such let us not forget that Hussein Obama DOES support killing those that have been born and are out of the womb. If you are into that type of thing that is certainly your choice but let's not screw up the facts on where Osama stands.

TailgateNut

09-12-2008, 08:24 AM

Why wouldn't they? It isn't like you are in here posting articles about the good work going to be done by Hussein Osama but rather nearly all your posts are slinging mud at the Republicans.

What you seem to forget Republicans aren't spineless creatures like John Kerry and Hussein Osama, they will fight back rather than roll over like the French.

**** you, you POS. You have the audacity to call Kerry spineless. He wasn't the one who went AWOL like your hero (Bush). Just because he didn't play dirty, which is the mantra of the republican party. (Lie, Steal, Deflect, Attack,etc....) Now that the Dems are paying back the favors, you little pissants whine.

Get someone to change your diaper, you are full of ****!

NaptownChief

09-12-2008, 08:33 AM

**** you, you POS. You have the audacity to call Kerry spineless. He wasn't the one who went AWOL like your hero (Bush). Just because he didn't play dirty, which is the mantra of the republican party. (Lie, Steal, Deflect, Attack,etc....) Now that the Dems are paying back the favors, you little pissants whine.

Get someone to change your diaper, you are full of ****!

Nut,

You off your meds again? One positive to Osama winning this election is his socialized healthcare might keep this from happening in the future.

Were you born emotionally out of control or did that develop over time?

Rohirrim

09-12-2008, 08:35 AM

Why wouldn't they? It isn't like you are in here posting articles about the good work going to be done by Hussein Osama but rather nearly all your posts are slinging mud at the Republicans.

What you seem to forget Republicans aren't spineless creatures like John Kerry and Hussein Osama, they will fight back rather than roll over like the French.

Obviously you are confused about the meaning of "slinging mud." See, when it's the truth, that's not a smear. The majority of the article posted above is in McCain's own words. Of course, the way the GOP operates, everything McCain has said previously no longer counts, unless of course, they want it to count. The Republicans live by the Humpty Dumpty rule: My words mean whatever I want them to mean.

TailgateNut

09-12-2008, 08:42 AM

Nut,

You off your meds again? One positive to Osama winning this election is his socialized healthcare might keep this from happening in the future.

Were you born emotionally out of control or did that develop over time?

Address your attack of Kerry, you bag of vomit!

FYI: my hatred of idiots like you has developed due to the lack of patriotism the republican party exhibits.

Rohirrim

09-12-2008, 08:46 AM

Address your attack of Kerry, you bag of vomit!

FYI: my hatred of idiots like you has developed due to the lack of patriotism the republican party exhibits.

Come on,TGN. You know if it was up to the Republicans, they would dig up the body of every Democrat buried in our national war cemetaries and dump them in the ocean. Only the service of Republicans is respected. The service of Democrats is a thing to be dishonored and spat upon, just the way they spat on the service of Kerry and Cleland.

MO<1>

09-12-2008, 08:48 AM

**** you, you POS. You have the audacity to call Kerry spineless. He wasn't the one who went AWOL like your hero (Bush). Just because he didn't play dirty, which is the mantra of the republican party. (Lie, Steal, Deflect, Attack,etc....) Now that the Dems are paying back the favors, you little pissants whine.

Get someone to change your diaper, you are full of ****!

You are right. Kerry jumped off his boat to chase an unarmed old man into the jungle and shoot him in the head with a .45. That is bona fide fact. It does take some nerve to kill the unarmed and then think yourself a hero. Where were you in 04? I was in Europe and watched Kerry's anger over being forced into the more than surface glitter just like what is now happening to Obama. We can go down this path, but don't you really want to focus on the issues?

NaptownChief

09-12-2008, 08:56 AM

Come on,TGN. You know if it was up to the Republicans, they would dig up the body of every Democrat buried in our national war cemetaries and dump them in the ocean. Only the service of Republicans is respected. The service of Democrats is a thing to be dishonored and spat upon, just the way they spat on the service of Kerry and Cleland.

Unlike the Democratic party that is happy to spit upon all service men and woman regardless of their political affiliation.

Hey Nut job, remind me again of Osama's pitiful excuse as to why he refused to wear an American Flag pin on his lapel? Of course that didn't garner votes and thus he tossed one on there for the DNC speech as tough as that might have been for him. Patriotism, a liberal casting stones on that topic......sheese, that is like Saddam Hussein giving a speech on human rights.

TailgateNut

09-12-2008, 09:00 AM

Rohirrim

09-12-2008, 09:01 AM

Unlike the Democratic party that is happy to spit upon all service men and woman regardless of their political affiliation.

Hey Nut job, remind me again of Osama's pitiful excuse as to why he refused to wear an American Flag pin on his lapel? Of course that didn't garner votes and thus he tossed one on there for the DNC speech as tough as that might have been for him. Patriotism, a liberal casting stones on that topic......sheese, that is like Saddam Hussein giving a speech on human rights.

Still, I've never heard of Democrats publicly spitting on paraplegic war heroes who gave their all for their country. That kind of slime is only reserved for the Repugs. Of course, they wrap themselves in the flag while doing it. Given the GOP convention, I guess their new theme is that they also are the true heroes of 911. Of course, all the NYC firemen who want to kick Giuliani's ass might disagree. Hey, but who cares about them? If they get in the way of the Republican Party, you can trash their heroism too. Hell, we all know with you guys it's PARTY, first, last and always. :~ohyah!:

MO<1>

09-12-2008, 09:07 AM

Come on,TGN. You know if it was up to the Republicans, they would dig up the body of every Democrat buried in our national war cemetaries and dump them in the ocean. Only the service of Republicans is respected. The service of Democrats is a thing to be dishonored and spat upon, just the way they spat on the service of Kerry and Cleland.

Nobody failed to recognize Kerry's service, that is why he isn't in the White House. Kerry actually thought he was equal to JFK. Now JFK was a war hero. Stockdale was a war hero. As a disable combat veteran I have vast experience at being dishonored for public service- do you want to discuss it or go back to understanding the real issues? Thanks for continuing focus on the Democrats continued censorship of truth.

NaptownChief

09-12-2008, 09:09 AM

Still, I've never heard of Democrats publicly spitting on paraplegic war heroes who gave their all for their country. That kind of slime is only reserved for the Repugs.

You going to back that trash up with any facts or links? I haven't heard that one before and I thought I had heard it all from the bottom of the barrel slimy liberals.

NaptownChief

09-12-2008, 09:12 AM

Patriotism is defined by wearing a lapel pin? :spit: Sad!

Wearing one sure doesn't make you a Patriot, but the refusal to wear one might very well tell plenty. And making close friends and business partners with the anti-American bombing terrorist Bill Ayers probably tells even more. I just hope we can all make this a country that Michelle can finally be proud of when it is all said and done.

MO<1>

09-12-2008, 10:06 AM

Still, I've never heard of Democrats publicly spitting on paraplegic war heroes who gave their all for their country. That kind of slime is only reserved for the Repugs. Of course, they wrap themselves in the flag while doing it. Given the GOP convention, I guess their new theme is that they also are the true heroes of 911. Of course, all the NYC firemen who want to kick Giuliani's ass might disagree. Hey, but who cares about them? If they get in the way of the Republican Party, you can trash their heroism too. Hell, we all know with you guys it's PARTY, first, last and always. :~ohyah!:

I guess you forgot about the Obama supporter punching a guy in a wheelchair. As you have pointed out, there are bad people on both sides?

Rohirrim

09-12-2008, 10:29 AM

Wearing one sure doesn't make you a Patriot, but the refusal to wear one might very well tell plenty.

Achtung! That sounds like the Repug argument for wiretapping Americans: If you didn't do anything wrong, you have nothing to fear. In fact, that's their argument for so many of their facist policies.

Rohirrim

09-12-2008, 10:30 AM

You going to back that trash up with any facts or links? I haven't heard that one before and I thought I had heard it all from the bottom of the barrel slimy liberals.

Raise you hand if you haven't heard of the Chambliss/Rove/Bush smear job on Cleland.

Only one?

MO<1>

09-12-2008, 10:32 AM

Achtung! That sounds like the Repug argument for wiretapping Americans: If you didn't do anything wrong, you have nothing to fear. In fact, that's their argument for so many of their facist policies.
ROFL!
Do you really want to debate facist policies? Which is the party offering the most self determination? If you want to debate this, at least have the courage to start a thread.