Obama Brings Down the Hammer on McCain's BS

[Rohirrim]

Ooops! I guess the Repugs aren't dealing with Kerry this time around. This Obama guy is starting to grow on me. He stands up and fights for himself.

"Spare me the phony outrage. Spare me the phony talk about change," Obama said at the start of an education event in Norfolk, Virginia.

"We have real problems in this country right now. The American people are looking to us for answers, not distractions, not diversions, not manipulations. They want real answers to the real problems we are facing.

"I don't care what they say about me. But I love this country too much to let them take over another election with lies and phony outrage and swift boat politics. Enough is enough," he said, referring to how Swift Boat Veterans for Truth launched attacks against Sen. John Kerry in the 2004 presidential race.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/campaign.wrap/index.html

[TheDave]

There are bennifts to being smarter than the other guy... good job on this.

[BroncoInferno]

Glad to see Obama doesn't mind bloodying noses when necessary. I can't wait for Biden to get hold of Palin in the VP debate. He will make sure the viewers know how she has been lying to them about her position on the bridge to nowhere, even if the press is too gutless to do their job and tell them.

[Mr.Meanie]

Honestly I think you're a bit too optimistic on that one. The media is portraying her as a hero and a champion of women. Aggressively attacking her or embarrassing her will only bring on the "Biden is a sexist!" headlines the next day.

[BroncoInferno]

Honestly I think you're a bit too optimistic on that one. The media is portraying her as a hero and a champion of women. Aggressively attacking her or embarrassing her will only bring on the "Biden is a sexist!" headlines the next day.

That may be true, but I've decided that the folks who buy that kind of crap weren't gonna vote for Obama anyway.

[BroncoInferno]

The video:

<iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/26640762#26640762" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

[Garcia Bronco]

I love the freak out when the PC people get their own crap thrown back on them. It's just a figure of speech. Sounds like a bunch of monkey business from the Obama Campaign.

[BroncoInferno]

I love the freak out when the PC people get their own crap thrown back on them. It's just a figure of speech. Sounds like a bunch of monkey business from the Obama Campaign.

Dude, he was talking about the policy of John McCain (by the way, McCain made the exact same analogy about Hillary and her healthcare policy) and they are trying to say he was calling Palin a pig. It's a lie attempted to distract. I know you aren't this stupid, you have to be playing devils advocate.

[broncofan7]

I love the freak out when the PC people get their own crap thrown back on them. It's just a figure of speech. Sounds like a bunch of monkey business from the Obama Campaign.

SO absolutely true. Do I think it is phony outrage??--ABSOLUTELY! But guess what, maybe the Repubs have learned to use the press the same way that the Dems have for all of these years.......Mccain is a HORRIBLE candidate but he really has some intelligent people in his campaign.......it's a dirty game , todays politics.......

[Garcia Bronco]

Dude, he was talking about the policy of John McCain (by the way, McCain made the exact same analogy about Hillary and her healthcare policy) and they are trying to say he was calling Palin a pig. It's a lie attempted to distract. I know you aren't this stupid, you have to be playing devils advocate.

It's still not very PC. Am I truly outraged? No. Do I care? No. But Iam having some fun with it. :)

[BroncoInferno]

It's still not very PC. Am I truly outraged? No. Do I care? No. But Iam having some fun with it. :)

Yeah, that's what i figured.

In any case, it isn't a PC to make an analogy comparing a policy to a pig. If he had actually been comparing Palin personally to a pig, that would be a PC issue. But he didn't do that.

[Dudeskey]

Good on him... Both him & Biden need to stay on point and keep the issues out front.

[Garcia Bronco]

Yeah, that's what i figured.

In any case, it isn't a PC to make an analogy comparing a policy to a pig. If he had actually been comparing Palin personally to a pig, that would be a PC issue. But he didn't do that.

But you do see how people could thank that based on the fact that she is a woman and uses lipstick. Some guys do too I guess, but you get my point. It was just a dumb thing to say.

[BroncoInferno]

But you do see how people could thank that based on the fact that she is a woman and uses lipstick. Some guys do too I guess, but you get my point. It was just a dumb thing to say.

Why was there no outrage when McCain compared a Hillary policy to a pig with lipstick? I'm surprised Obama didn't point that out.

[socalorado]

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/09/10/palin/index1.html
REAL CLEAR POLITICS.COM
FRESH BLOOD FOR THE VAMPIRE.
Camille Paglia
Sept. 10, 2008 | Rip tide! Is the Obama campaign shooting out to sea like a paper boat?
It's heavy weather for Obama fans, as momentum has suddenly shifted to John McCain -- that hoary, barnacle-encrusted tub that many Democrats like me had thought was full of holes and swirling to its doom in the inky depths of Republican incoherence and fratricide. Gee whilikers, the McCain vampire just won't die! Hit him with a hammer, and he explodes like a jellyfish into a hundred hungry pieces.
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Oh, the sadomasochistic tedium of McCain's imprisonment in Hanoi being told over and over and over again at the Republican convention. Do McCain's credentials for the White House really consist only of that horrific ordeal? Americans owe every heroic, wounded veteran an incalculable debt of gratitude, but how do McCain's sufferings in a tiny, squalid cell 40 years ago logically translate into presidential aptitude in the 21st century? Cast him a statue or slap his name on a ship, and let's turn the damned page.
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We need a new generation of leadership with fresh ideas and an expansive, cosmopolitan vision -- which is why I support Barack Obama and have contributed to his campaign. My baby-boom generation -- typified by the narcissistic Clintons -- peaked in the 1960s and is seriously past it. But McCain, born before Pearl Harbor, is even older than we are! Why would anyone believe that he holds the key to the future? And why would anyone swallow that preening passel of high-flown rhetoric about "country above all" coming from a seething, short-fused character whose rampant egotism, zigzagging principles, and currying of the gullible press were the distinguishing marks of his senatorial career?
Having said that, I must admit that McCain is currently eating Obama's lunch. McCain's weirdly disconnected persona (beady glowers flashing to frozen grins and back again) has started to look more testosterone-rich than Obama's easy, lanky, reflective candor. What in the world possessed the Obama campaign to let their guy wander like a dazed lamb into a snake pit of religious inquisition like Rick Warren's public forum last month at his Saddleback Church (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/08/18/sunday_at_saddleback/index.html) in California? That shambles of a performance -- where a surprisingly unprepared Obama met the inevitable question about abortion with shockingly curt glibness -- began his alarming slide.
As I said in my last column (http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/08/13/mercury), I have become increasingly uneasy about Obama's efforts to sound folksy and approachable by reflexively using inner-city African-American tones and locutions, which as a native of Hawaii he acquired relatively late in his development and which are painfully wrong for the target audience of rural working-class whites that he has been trying to reach. Obama on the road and even in major interviews has been droppin' his g's like there's no tomorrow. It's analogous to the way stodgy, portly Al Gore (evidently misadvised by the women in his family and their feminist pals) tried to zap himself up on the campaign trail into the happening buff dude that he was not. Both Gore and Obama would have been better advised to pursue a calm, steady, authoritative persona. Forget the jokes -- be boring! That, alas, is what reads as masculine in the U.S.
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The over-the-top publicity stunt of a mega-stadium for Obama's acceptance speech at the Democratic convention two weeks ago was a huge risk that worried me sick -- there were too many things that could go wrong, from bad weather to crowd control to technical glitches on the overblown set. But everything went swimmingly. Obama delivered the speech nearly flawlessly -- though I was shocked and disappointed by how little there was about foreign policy, a major area where wavering voters have grave doubts about him. Nevertheless, it was an extraordinary event with an overlong but strangely contemplative and spiritually uplifting finale. The music, amid the needlessly extravagant fireworks, morphed into "Star Wars" -- a New Age hymn to cosmic reconciliation and peace.
After that extravaganza, marking the 40th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s epochal civil rights speech on the Washington Mall, I felt calmly confident that the Obama campaign was going to roll like a gorgeous juggernaut right over the puny, fossilized McCain. The next morning, it was as if the election were already over. No need to fret about American politics anymore this year. I had already turned with relief to other matters.
Pow! Wham! The Republicans unleashed a doozy -- one of the most stunning surprises that I have ever witnessed in my adult life. By lunchtime, Obama's triumph of the night before had been wiped right off the national radar screen. In a bold move I would never have thought him capable of, McCain introduced Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska as his pick for vice president. I had heard vaguely about Palin but had never heard her speak. I nearly fell out of my chair. It was like watching a boxing match or a quarter of hard-hitting football -- or one of the great light-saber duels in "Star Wars." (Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A4fN7FEzjc) are the two Jedi, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn, going at it with Darth Maul in "The Phantom Menace.") This woman turned out to be a tough, scrappy fighter with a mischievous sense of humor.

Conservative though she may be, I felt that Palin represented an explosion of a brand new style of muscular American feminism. At her startling debut on that day, she was combining male and female qualities in ways that I have never seen before. And she was somehow able to seem simultaneously reassuringly traditional and gung-ho futurist. In terms of redefining the persona for female authority and leadership, Palin has made the biggest step forward in feminism since Madonna channeled the dominatrix persona of high-glam Marlene Dietrich and rammed pro-sex, pro-beauty feminism down the throats of the prissy, victim-mongering, philistine feminist establishment.

Continued here
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/09/10/palin/index1.html

[TheDave]

Why was there no outrage when McCain compared a Hillary policy to a pig with lipstick? I'm surprised Obama didn't point that out.

Because he doesn't need to... There is no real outrage this is all made up. Anyone who truly believes this was a sexist remark isn't going to vote for Obama anyways.

[socalorado]

Because he doesn't need to... There is no real outrage this is all made up. Anyone who truly believes this was a sexist remark isn't going to vote for Obama anyways.

Or they are a woman.

[Garcia Bronco]

Why was there no outrage when McCain compared a Hillary policy to a pig with lipstick? I'm surprised Obama didn't point that out.

Good question. I think because people don't like Hillary, but I could be wrong.

[TheDave]

Or they are a woman.

Keep the faith Bro... Keep the faith.

[socalorado]

Keep the faith Bro... Keep the faith.

Not my faith bro. Its THEIR faith.
Reuters: McCain Surge Attributable To “White Women Voters”
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN097920080909
www.gallup.com
Just as many independent voters now seem to be flocking towards McCain, so are women voters – a politically toxic sign for Obama:

Republican presidential candidate John McCain has gained huge support and now leads Democrat Barack Obama among white women voters since naming Sarah Palin as his running mate, according to a survey published on Tuesday.
The Washington Post/ABC News poll found that much of McCain’s surge in the polls since the Republican National Convention is attributable to the shift in support among white women.

Before the Democratic National Convention in late August, Obama held an 8 percentage point lead among white women voters, 50 percent to 42 percent, but after the Republican convention in early September, McCain was ahead by 12 points among white women, 53 percent to 41 percent, the poll found.
McCain surprised the electorate ahead of the Republican convention by naming Palin, the little-known Alaska governor, as his vice presidential running mate. She received high marks among supporters for her convention address, which included a scathing attack ridiculing Obama’s experience and record.
That’s another huge shift. It has been reported that Obama’s campaign hoped Clinton would help take on Palin but it’s clear that the New York Senator is not going to do it. The New York Times:
In her first campaign outing since the Democratic National Convention, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton urged audiences across central Florida on Monday to oppose the Republican presidential ticket — “no McCain, no Palin” — but otherwise avoided criticizing a new contender for female voters, Gov. Sarah Palin.
The absence of heavy fire directed at Ms. Palin had been expected, given a reluctance by Mrs. Clinton to turn her campaigning into a battle between two women. Yet advisers to Senator Barack Obama said Mrs. Clinton was nonetheless their best surrogate to counter the Republican ticket’s new drive to win over white working women and mothers who supported her in the Democratic primaries.
Ms. Palin has been explicitly courting those women, and national polls taken in the wake of last week’s Republican convention indicate that the McCain-Palin ticket is drawing interest and support from them.
This doesn’t bode well for the Obama campaign



Girl power. Who would have thought!?!?

[frerottenextelway]

Or they are a woman.

Garcia? !Booya!

[frerottenextelway]

Not my faith bro. Its THEIR faith.
Reuters: McCain Surge Attributable To “White Women Voters”
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN097920080909
www.gallup.com
Just as many independent voters now seem to be flocking towards McCain, so are women voters – a politically toxic sign for Obama:

Republican presidential candidate John McCain has gained huge support and now leads Democrat Barack Obama among white women voters since naming Sarah Palin as his running mate, according to a survey published on Tuesday.
The Washington Post/ABC News poll found that much of McCain’s surge in the polls since the Republican National Convention is attributable to the shift in support among white women.

Before the Democratic National Convention in late August, Obama held an 8 percentage point lead among white women voters, 50 percent to 42 percent, but after the Republican convention in early September, McCain was ahead by 12 points among white women, 53 percent to 41 percent, the poll found.
McCain surprised the electorate ahead of the Republican convention by naming Palin, the little-known Alaska governor, as his vice presidential running mate. She received high marks among supporters for her convention address, which included a scathing attack ridiculing Obama’s experience and record.
That’s another huge shift. It has been reported that Obama’s campaign hoped Clinton would help take on Palin but it’s clear that the New York Senator is not going to do it. The New York Times:
In her first campaign outing since the Democratic National Convention, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton urged audiences across central Florida on Monday to oppose the Republican presidential ticket — “no McCain, no Palin” — but otherwise avoided criticizing a new contender for female voters, Gov. Sarah Palin.
The absence of heavy fire directed at Ms. Palin had been expected, given a reluctance by Mrs. Clinton to turn her campaigning into a battle between two women. Yet advisers to Senator Barack Obama said Mrs. Clinton was nonetheless their best surrogate to counter the Republican ticket’s new drive to win over white working women and mothers who supported her in the Democratic primaries.
Ms. Palin has been explicitly courting those women, and national polls taken in the wake of last week’s Republican convention indicate that the McCain-Palin ticket is drawing interest and support from them.
This doesn’t bode well for the Obama campaign



Girl power. Who would have thought!?!?

Women are the easiest to bring back when the issue of abortion and the Supreme Court becomes center stage - as it always does at some point.

[Garcia Bronco]

Women are the easiest to bring back when the issue of abortion and the Supreme Court becomes center stage - as it always does at some point.

How so?

[MO<1>]

Why was there no outrage when McCain compared a Hillary policy to a pig with lipstick? I'm surprised Obama didn't point that out.

Where is your memory? It was all the rage for a day or two.

CNN has just reported there is a large amount of rumours and untruth circulating the internet about Obama- they said it is called youtube!ROFL!

[Spider]

Bam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! about ****ing time we got a dem with backbone ...........
GO OBAMA 08

[Spider]

The republicans got their hands full with this guy . could you imagine Pelosi and ****stick Reid having a backbone ?
Maybe Obama wil set a new trend .......... Lets kick pelosi out , Reid out , all the rest that ate the **** shoveled to them and said thank you may i have some more ......

[MO<1>]

Hmmm. This thread is like saying the Raiders have a great recieving corps or defensive backfield! It is as credible as saying the Raiders will beat the Patriots and the Bills!

Go Broncos! I love America and have always had a backbone!

[Falconer]

I haven't posted here in a long time because things have a tendency to quickly go downhill, but what the heck. I could care less the comment that Obama said.

However, I do have trouble with what Biden decided to say. The exact quote was, "I hear all this talk about how the Republicans are going to work in dealing with parents who have both the joy, because there's joy to it as well, the joy and the difficulty of raising a child who has a developmental disability, who were born with a birth defect. Well guess what folks? If you care about it, why don't you support stem cell research?"

How dare he insinuate that I don't care about my own son! I don't have a problem that he has a difference of opinion about stem cells than me, but to make that kind of comment is totally uncalled for in my opinion.

First off, I would say that Senator Biden is either misinformed or outright uneducated on stem cells and the objections to using them. Stem cells are made up of two different categories. There are embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells. So far embryonic stem cells have helped no individuals with diseases. On the other hand, adult stem cells have helped with over 65 different diseases.

I know of no kind of opposition to using those adult stem cells, and I think there is a great degree of support for it.

I am hopeful that Senator Biden will take the time to inform himself about the matter, and then issue an apology to all those parents who have children with special needs but do not support embryonic stem cell reseach. Not for just being misinformed, but just the fact that what he said was outragous.

[Spider]

Hmmm. This thread is like saying the Raiders have a great recieving corps or defensive backfield! It is as credible as saying the Raiders will beat the Patriots and the Bills!

Go Broncos! I love America and have always had a backbone!

LOL .. Bills and Chargers , no one said they had great receivers....... I shouldnt be shocked you cant keep something as simple as that right , I have read enough of your post to know you and the truth are distant strangers ,Perhaps it isnt your fault , maybe there is a mental block that you have that shields you from the real world ......instead of insulting you I should pitty you ......

[Spider]

I haven't posted here in a long time because things have a tendency to quickly go downhill, but what the heck. I could care less the comment that Obama said.

However, I do have trouble with what Biden decided to say. The exact quote was, "I hear all this talk about how the Republicans are going to work in dealing with parents who have both the joy, because there's joy to it as well, the joy and the difficulty of raising a child who has a developmental disability, who were born with a birth defect. Well guess what folks? If you care about it, why don't you support stem cell research?"

How dare he insinuate that I don't care about my own son! I don't have a problem that he has a difference of opinion about stem cells than me, but to make that kind of comment is totally uncalled for in my opinion.

First off, I would say that Senator Biden is either misinformed or outright uneducated on stem cells and the objections to using them. Stem cells are made up of two different categories. There are embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells. So far embryonic stem cells have helped no individuals with diseases. On the other hand, adult stem cells have helped with over 65 different diseases.

I know of no kind of opposition to using those adult stem cells, and I think there is a great degree of support for it.

I am hopeful that Senator Biden will take the time to inform himself about the matter, and then issue an apology to all those parents who have children with special needs but do not support embryonic stem cell reseach. Not for just being misinformed, but just the fact that what he said was outragous.

you know I care about sam , but you mean to tell me they if they found the gene to cure Sam but the only to get it is through Stem Cell research you wouldnt do it ? I would for my son colten in a heartbeat , nothing I wouldnt do so he could enjoy school , prom , dating , working , sports , being self reliant ......we are working with him now , but man there is nothing I wouldnt do to give him a much easier road to travel

[Mr.Meanie]

So far embryonic stem cells have helped no individuals with diseases. On the other hand, adult stem cells have helped with over 65 different diseases.

The reason why is adult stem cell research has over 2 decades of a head start on embryonic stem cells. Since embryonic stem cells can be adapted into any organ cell in the body, it is only logical that there could be hundreds of applications if this research were approved and fully funded for some time...

[TailgateNut]

I haven't posted here in a long time because things have a tendency to quickly go downhill, but what the heck. I could care less the comment that Obama said.

However, I do have trouble with what Biden decided to say. The exact quote was, "I hear all this talk about how the Republicans are going to work in dealing with parents who have both the joy, because there's joy to it as well, the joy and the difficulty of raising a child who has a developmental disability, who were born with a birth defect. Well guess what folks? If you care about it, why don't you support stem cell research?"

How dare he insinuate that I don't care about my own son! I don't have a problem that he has a difference of opinion about stem cells than me, but to make that kind of comment is totally uncalled for in my opinion.

First off, I would say that Senator Biden is either misinformed or outright uneducated on stem cells and the objections to using them. Stem cells are made up of two different categories. There are embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells. So far embryonic stem cells have helped no individuals with diseases. On the other hand, adult stem cells have helped with over 65 different diseases.

I know of no kind of opposition to using those adult stem cells, and I think there is a great degree of support for it.

I am hopeful that Senator Biden will take the time to inform himself about the matter, and then issue an apology to all those parents who have children with special needs but do not support embryonic stem cell reseach. Not for just being misinformed, but just the fact that what he said was outragous.


Well, typically the right is the "side" which opposes the harvesting and study/ use of embryonic stem cells, which could possibly answer questions about birth defects and possibly offer some help with averting the problems associated with birth defects.

But that would require the right to believe in science in lieu of the "stork"!

[Hogan11]

Obama is our only hope to save us from four more years of stupid.

How can anyone, anyone possibly want four more years of this? ??? I see McCain close or leading in the polls and it makes me sick to my stomach....how can people be this f'n stupid?

[MO<1>]

The reason why is adult stem cell research has over 2 decades of a head start on embryonic stem cells. Since embryonic stem cells can be adapted into any organ cell in the body, it is only logical that there could be hundreds of applications if this research were approved and fully funded for some time...

Why do we let big government interfere? Stem cell research will enrich the lives of millions. Before it is all blamed on those of every faith or God, how many health care needs could be decreased with stem cell research. How fewer health insurance conglomerates, HMO's, and lobbyists would have to find some other way to make a living. I sincerely hope progress is made in this lifesaving and enriching area.

Sen McCain also has a child with special needs, but apparently it isn't an issue since he is a male. Cindy McCain is a certified and experienced special needs educator.

[Mr.Meanie]

Why do we let big government interfere? Stem cell research will enrich the lives of millions. Before it is all blamed on those of every faith or God, how many health care needs could be decreased with stem cell research. How fewer health insurance conglomerates, HMO's, and lobbyists would have to find some other way to make a living. I sincerely hope progress is made in this lifesaving and enriching area.

:thumbsup:

[Falconer]

you know I care about sam , but you mean to tell me they if they found the gene to cure Sam but the only to get it is through Stem Cell research you wouldnt do it ? I would for my son colten in a heartbeat , nothing I wouldnt do so he could enjoy school , prom , dating , working , sports , being self reliant ......we are working with him now , but man there is nothing I wouldnt do to give him a much easier road to travel

Again, you are not differentiating between adult stem cells (this is even a misleading phrase as cord blood is considered adult stem cells) and embryonic stem cells. I have no problem with using the former.

On a side note, I sometimes wonder whether or not what we view as a life fulfilled is the end all be all. I have never seen a child as happy as Sam. I realize this does not sound fully rational, but it does make me wonder.

[Falconer]

The reason why is adult stem cell research has over 2 decades of a head start on embryonic stem cells. Since embryonic stem cells can be adapted into any organ cell in the body, it is only logical that there could be hundreds of applications if this research were approved and fully funded for some time...

Actually, they have found stem cells that can be adapted into any organ cell in the body in both cord blood and adult bone marrow. For that very reason we donated my daughters cord blood to St. Louis Childrens Hospital.

[gyldenlove]

Actually, they have found stem cells that can be adapted into any organ cell in the body in both cord blood and adult bone marrow. For that very reason we donated my daughters cord blood to St. Louis Childrens Hospital.

Which was a very good thing to do. If every American donated cord blood to research it would help a lot towards alleviating the shortage of stem cells for research. Since that will never happen, why not let people grow cells for research? you can grow deadly diseases for research, you can grow skin cells, liver cells, cancer cells, plant cells, bacteria and whatever else, why not stem cells?

Every day they breed mice, rats, dogs, pigs, hamsters, rabbits and monkeys for animal studies, and those are actual live functioning animals, why not allow people to grow some damn cells? they have no nervous system, no way of surviving unless they are kept alive.

Just so everybody is clear, I don't care about stem cell research for non-lethal birth defects, but wouldn't be nice if kids who would be born with a big old hole in the heart could be helped, or people with various genetic disorders that cause premature death and suffering? Wouldn't it be nice if we could regrow a spine so Kevin Everett can live a long and healthy life with no limitations?

[Hotrod]

It will be interesting when he has to think on his feet and not simply read off of the teleprompter.


:)

[TheDave]

Sorry Falconer, but on this subject we could not be further apart. The entire argument against embryonic stem cells is a made up political line of BS that some people have bought into. These embryos that are being discussed are ones that are on their way to be incinerated. They do not have any functionality are are about to be destroyed regardless.

Additionally they are used for laboratory and University training... Did you know that was legal. Probably not, most people don't. So the argument here is that it is OK to produce these embryos, use them for training, inject 10 into a body that will likely only use one and discard the rest. Somehow none of this is morally wrong... until of course they are used for "Research"

Sorry but that is a false argument.

[Spider]

Again, you are not differentiating between adult stem cells (this is even a misleading phrase as cord blood is considered adult stem cells) and embryonic stem cells. I have no problem with using the former. we will have to agree to disagree ......

On a side note, I sometimes wonder whether or not what we view as a life fulfilled is the end all be all. I have never seen a child as happy as Sam. I realize this does not sound fully rational, but it does make me wonder.

I some times do .All of my kids are happy ,I wouldnt say Colten is more happier then the others , well except my 16 year old Daughter but that comes with being a teenager ;D

[Mr.Meanie]

Actually, they have found stem cells that can be adapted into any organ cell in the body in both cord blood and adult bone marrow. For that very reason we donated my daughters cord blood to St. Louis Childrens Hospital.

That's awesome! I wish more people could and would do that.

I guess I don't understand the opposition to embryonic stem cell research... except for maybe the tenuous "slippery slope" argument where maybe some crazed renegade scientist group could begin cloning people and harvesting their body parts to sell on the black market...or something.

[Spider]

That's awesome! I wish more people could and would do that.

I guess I don't understand the opposition to embryonic stem cell research... except for maybe the tenuous "slippery slope" argument where maybe some crazed renegade scientist group could begin cloning people and harvesting their body parts to sell on the black market...or something.

I saw that in a movie once Schwarzenegger ......

[Falconer]

I'm afraid that my original post was kind of misunderstood. I understand that many of you might have a different opinion than me. I can understand and appreciate that. However, Senator Biden implied that I did not care about my own son just because I do not agree with his stance. I find that very offensive to say the least.

[Drek]

I haven't posted here in a long time because things have a tendency to quickly go downhill, but what the heck. I could care less the comment that Obama said.

However, I do have trouble with what Biden decided to say. The exact quote was, "I hear all this talk about how the Republicans are going to work in dealing with parents who have both the joy, because there's joy to it as well, the joy and the difficulty of raising a child who has a developmental disability, who were born with a birth defect. Well guess what folks? If you care about it, why don't you support stem cell research?"

How dare he insinuate that I don't care about my own son! I don't have a problem that he has a difference of opinion about stem cells than me, but to make that kind of comment is totally uncalled for in my opinion.
He wasn't insinuating that you don't care about your son. He was flat out saying that the Republican party don't.

The last sentence was directed at the Republican party, to point out that they say one thing (that they support parents of and children with disabilities) but then do another (vote against stem cell research in all forms).

Kinda like how Sarah Palin, a woman with a disabled child, says she's an advocate for these same groups, yet in Alaska has voted against assistance for them without fail.

He's just pointing out how the GOP is talking out of both sides of their mouth again. But that plays with the GOP's strategy. They say one thing and do another, when they get called on it the people who truly care about those issues are so quickly defensive that they don't understand what was actually said and instead just see someone referencing their issue in a negative light.

Its the same old dirty political bait and switch the GOP has ran on the American people the last eight years. They have no morals and as long as their opposition does they'll exploit it to the fullest.

[Play2win]

I just don't see how SOME Republican can even call themselves Americans...

[Garcia Bronco]

He wasn't insinuating that you don't care about your son. He was flat out saying that the Republican party don't.

The last sentence was directed at the Republican party, to point out that they say one thing (that they support parents of and children with disabilities) but then do another (vote against stem cell research in all forms).

Kinda like how Sarah Palin, a woman with a disabled child, says she's an advocate for these same groups, yet in Alaska has voted against assistance for them without fail.

He's just pointing out how the GOP is talking out of both sides of their mouth again. But that plays with the GOP's strategy. They say one thing and do another, when they get called on it the people who truly care about those issues are so quickly defensive that they don't understand what was actually said and instead just see someone referencing their issue in a negative light.

Its the same old dirty political bait and switch the GOP has ran on the American people the last eight years. They have no morals and as long as their opposition does they'll exploit it to the fullest.


So she has a special needs child and voted against government assistance. Hmmmm? Why would she do that?

[Spider]

Chris mathews tore some jerk off a new one

[gunns]

Honestly I think you're a bit too optimistic on that one. The media is portraying her as a hero and a champion of women. Aggressively attacking her or embarrassing her will only bring on the "Biden is a sexist!" headlines the next day.

and what are those people that are crying about it going to do if she becomes VP, or worse yet President, and some head of state or ambassador attacks her verbally or embarrasses her. I thought this woman was suppose to be tough as nails. The only difference between her and a pit bull is lipstick.

[Spider]

Mathews was on a mission ....... from opposition research , Bringing kids in , to the lipstick on a pig thing

[gunns]

Obama is our only hope to save us from four more years of stupid.

How can anyone, anyone possibly want four more years of this? ??? I see McCain close or leading in the polls and it makes me sick to my stomach....how can people be this f'n stupid?

I feel the same way. I can't believe it. How can someone watch something like this and say they would vote for him. He sounds as stupid as Bush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLuqxXwG4nE

[Mr.Meanie]

I feel the same way. I can't believe it. How can someone watch something like this and say they would vote for him. He sounds as stupid as Bush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLuqxXwG4nE

McCain's alot of things, but he's hardly as stupid as Bush. He's actually a smart guy. IMO.

[frerottenextelway]

Steph Cutter starts to ''go there''

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[Bronco Bob]

It will be interesting when he has to think on his feet and not simply read off of the teleprompter.


:)

Who are you referring to, Sarah Palin?

[Bronco Bob]

So she has a special needs child and voted against government assistance. Hmmmm? Why would she do that?

She no doubt has health care coverage already paid for by Alaska,
why should she care about the working people of Alaska? If anything,
more for her if the Alaska dollars aren't spread as wide.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Steph Cutter starts to ''go there''

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Wow!

She did a great job of exposing the latest GOP distraction for what it is.

Nice work, Steph. :thumbsup:

[gunns]

Or they are a woman.

Nope. McCains condescending pick of Palin didn't pick up all the white women they are talking about. In fact I have yet to talk to one that wants Palin. Granted that's only my contacts on a day to day basis but I'm still waiting to find one that will vote for McCain based on getting this woman on the ticket. In fact living in probably the most conservative state in the nation, there are plenty of conservative women here who are confused by this woman. One woman I've talked with says besides the fact she didn't have an abortion (which they are fanatically against) and she's for guns what does she offer them should she become President. The sexist part of this whole election is that people, like you, actually think women will vote for a man who got a woman on the ticket, merely because she's a woman. But then again you have the fine example of yourself who obviously voted for an idiot because he was like you.

[gunns]

McCain's alot of things, but he's hardly as stupid as Bush. He's actually a smart guy. IMO.

He was.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Nope. McCains condescending pick of Palin didn't pick up all the white women they are talking about. In fact I have yet to talk to one that wants Palin. Granted that's only my contacts on a day to day basis but I'm still waiting to find one that will vote for McCain based on getting this woman on the ticket. In fact living in probably the most conservative state in the nation, there are plenty of conservative women here who are confused by this woman. One woman I've talked with says besides the fact she didn't have an abortion (which they are fanatically against) and she's for guns what does she offer them should she become President. The sexist part of this whole election is that people, like you, actually think women will vote for a man who got a woman on the ticket, merely because she's a woman. But then again you have the fine example of yourself who obviously voted for an idiot because he was like you.

:yep: ^5

[BMF Bronco]

Okay, so once again, he's talking about creating "real change", my question is, how are you going to do it and how are you going to give us the "real answers" you're speaking of?!

[Spider]

Okay, so once again, he's talking about creating "real change", my question is, how are you going to do it and how are you going to give us the "real answers" you're speaking of?!

And again .......http://www.obama08.com

[BMF Bronco]

change via google?

[MO<1>]

There are bennifts to being smarter than the other guy... good job on this.

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[Spider]

change via google?

huh ? you asked about his Answers to problems , I gave you his web site .... Not the complicated

[Traveler]

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[BMF Bronco]

huh ? you asked about his Answers to problems , I gave you his web site .... Not the complicated

that website took me to google. I was giving you ****, relax. I am completely undecided on how I want to vote this year, so don't think I am going all ballistic here, I was asking in all seriousness.