The high-schoolization of America

[enjolras]

Ok I don't get it. I admit it. I'm not smart enough apparently. The right is infatuated with Palin, not because she's demonstrated that she is an intellectual or particularly capable. Nope, after watching interview after interview with delegates and supporters there is one common refrain: "she's just like me (or my wife)".

When did that become a qualification to be president? Do we really care this little about our country? I've heard and read accounts glowing about the fact that she played sports, has a family, attends a local church (assembly of god, which scares the piss out of me)... she's just like 'Jenny at the PTA'.

Do you really want Jenny to run the country? This is our country for christs sake. A country founded by some of the best thinkers of the enlightenment. We've gone from Washington, Madison, and Jefferson to... THIS?

The hubris that comes with the very idea of it just pisses me off. Its the type of logic that goes into picking your class president, not the leader of the free world. Our world standing is under direct threat on almost every side. Not by terrorists, but by countries who have focused on promoting smart. India, China, and the EU have almost over night developed technology industries that rival ours. Each is going to space. Each is engaging in direct competition with us in areas that we've traditionally dominated. And we're responding with leaders who 'remind me of my mom'.

Wake the hell up people. I love my country more than this... I would hope you would too.

[Hogan11]

She's big for two reasons only:

1) Looks

2) She attacked Obama...after the last few elections, it's not selling the populace short at all by saying that most people generally don't care about issues as much as they enjoy the championship wrestling style verbal attacks a canadate delivers upon their political opponets. That's why the GOP has won the past few years. The "zingers" are what won most of those people over...and that alone tells you a lot.

[spdirty]

And what about your observations about Obama, whose dirt on him is much worse, and who has much less experience, (executive, elective, life) than Sarah Palin?

[shakenbake]

Judging on the number of threads on this board about her, started by DEMOCRATS I would say the left is much more infatuated with her than the right

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Judging on the number of threads on this board about her, started by DEMOCRATS I would say the left is much more infatuated with her than the rightHow many DEMOCRATS started threads on her here?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Judging on the number of threads on this board about her, started by DEMOCRATS I would say the left is much more infatuated with her than the right

It's not infatuation - it's alarm.

Alarm that the GOP would be so reckless and irresponsible as to place a person who makes Bush look like John Adams a (very faint) heartbeat away from the presidency.

[shakenbake]

How many DEMOCRATS started threads on her here?

you prefer those on the left ?

[shakenbake]

It's not infatuation - it's alarm.

Alarm that the GOP would be so reckless and irresponsible as to place a person who makes Bush look like John Adams a (very faint) heartbeat away from the presidency.

Alarm you should be happy, if she is really that crazy then Obama is a shoe in.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And what about your observations about Obama, whose dirt on him is much worse...

What "dirt" might that be?

Is Obama currently under investigation for abusing the power of his office?



and who has much less experience, (executive, elective, life) than Sarah Palin?

Hilarious!

"Executive" experience doing what?

Issuing ice fishing permits?

[snowspot66]

And what about your observations about Obama, whose dirt on him is much worse, and who has much less experience, (executive, elective, life) than Sarah Palin?

Sara Palin has more experience at life now too?

I guess you sure get a lot of life experience up there in Alaska. They must get two scoops for everyone down here in the lower 48. Is moose meat high in the daily recommended quantity of life experience? I have to say I've never tried it.

[shakenbake]

How many DEMOCRATS started threads on her here?

7 negative on the first page btw

[snowspot66]

Alarm you should be happy, if she is really that crazy then Obama is a shoe in.

Diebold.

McCain could be giving the original speeches of Hitler for his entire campaign and I would still not believe it's a shoe in until he's standing there with his hand on the Bible. If anything the last two elections should have taught everybody that nothing is a given and something is sure to be fishy.

[ghwk]

Ok I don't get it. I admit it. I'm not smart enough apparently. The right is infatuated with Palin, not because she's demonstrated that she is an intellectual or particularly capable. Nope, after watching interview after interview with delegates and supporters there is one common refrain: "she's just like me (or my wife)".

When did that become a qualification to be president? Do we really care this little about our country? I've heard and read accounts glowing about the fact that she played sports, has a family, attends a local church (assembly of god, which scares the piss out of me)... she's just like 'Jenny at the PTA'.

Do you really want Jenny to run the country? This is our country for christs sake. A country founded by some of the best thinkers of the enlightenment. We've gone from Washington, Madison, and Jefferson to... THIS?

The hubris that comes with the very idea of it just pisses me off. Its the type of logic that goes into picking your class president, not the leader of the free world. Our world standing is under direct threat on almost every side. Not by terrorists, but by countries who have focused on promoting smart. India, China, and the EU have almost over night developed technology industries that rival ours. Each is going to space. Each is engaging in direct competition with us in areas that we've traditionally dominated. And we're responding with leaders who 'remind me of my mom'.

Wake the hell up people. I love my country more than this... I would hope you would too.

This was actually very well written. Even as a Dem had this been written about a Dem candidate with the same qualifications I would have to agree. Right or left we should demand better of our parties in terms of the choices they present us with.

[ghwk]

And what about your observations about Obama, whose dirt on him is much worse, and who has much less experience, (executive, elective, life) than Sarah Palin?

You sir missed the point entirely, which pretty much points out why the thread was started in the first place. I'm not saying that to be unkind, I'm just trying to point out that maybe you should read it again and really try to understand the bigger picture and respond to that.

[enjolras]

And what about your observations about Obama, whose dirt on him is much worse, and who has much less experience, (executive, elective, life) than Sarah Palin?

I disagree that he has less experience. I've spent a lot of time in small town America. My wife is from a town of nearly identical size to Wasilla Alaska... I see nothing about running a small town that provides you with any level of experience qualifying you to be president of the United States.

At the very least Obama spent 8 years in a state legislature, in addition to building from scratch a large and effective grass roots organization. He's been in the United States senate as long as Palin has been a governor, of the 47th largest state. A state with a total population several times less than that of metropolatin Denver.

In addition Obama is incredibly more qualified academically and intellectually. He holds a post graduate degree from Harvard, she went through 5 schools before pulling out a bachelors degree from the University of Idaho. There is nothing remarkable about her except that she's pretty and ambitious. That you'd be willing to sell your country out to that just sickens me. That Obamas intelligence polls as a god damn HANDICAP should disgust you. The greatest threat to this country isn't terrorism, its institutionalized anti-intellectualism.

[ghwk]

I disagree that he has less experience. I've spent a lot of time in small town America. My wife is from a town of nearly identical size to Wasilla Alaska... I see nothing about running a small town that provides you with any level of experience qualifying you to be president of the United States.

At the very least Obama spent 8 years in a state legislature, in addition to building from scratch a large and effective grass roots organization. He's been in the United States senate as long as Palin has been a governor, of the 47th largest state. A state with a total population several times less than that of metropolatin Denver.

In addition Obama is incredibly more qualified academically and intellectually. He holds a post graduate degree from Harvard, she went through 5 schools before pulling out a bachelors degree from the University of Idaho. There is nothing remarkable about her except that she's pretty and ambitious. That you'd be willing to sell your country out to that just sickens me. That Obamas intelligence polls as a god damn HANDICAP should disgust you. The greatest threat to this country isn't terrorism, its institutionalized anti-intellectualism.

Spit out the hook enjolras, spdirty only knows how to troll.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I disagree that he has less experience. I've spent a lot of time in small town America. My wife is from a town of nearly identical size to Wasilla Alaska... I see nothing about running a small town that provides you with any level of experience qualifying you to be president of the United States.

At the very least Obama spent 8 years in a state legislature, in addition to building from scratch a large and effective grass roots organization. He's been in the United States senate as long as Palin has been a governor, of the 47th largest state. A state with a total population several times less than that of metropolatin Denver.

In addition Obama is incredibly more qualified academically and intellectually. He holds a post graduate degree from Harvard, she went through 5 schools before pulling out a bachelors degree from the University of Idaho. There is nothing remarkable about her except that she's pretty and ambitious. That you'd be willing to sell your country out to that just sickens me. That Obamas intelligence polls as a god damn HANDICAP should disgust you. The greatest threat to this country isn't terrorism, its institutionalized anti-intellectualism.

That, sir, is a home run. :thumbsup: ^5

[spdirty]

What "dirt" might that be?

Is Obama currently under investigation for abusing the power of his office?


And Id like to know what you think of this "investigation." Did you read the facts of it that are out, and make a conclusion? Or are you saying that "under investigation for abusing the power of her office" means in your world that she actually abused the power of her office?

If you don't have em, or are too lazy to look, I can get the facts for you.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And Id like to know what you think of this "investigation." Did you read the facts of it that are out, and make a conclusion? Or are you saying that "under investigation for abusing the power of her office" means in your world that she actually abused the power of her office?

If you don't have em, or are too lazy to look, I can get the facts for you.

Already been discussed at length on numerous other threads.

I'm just astounded that even you would think choosing a running mate who is currently under investigation for an abuse of her office is a good idea.

[spdirty]

At the very least Obama spent 8 years in a state legislature, .

And Palin not only was a mayor, but was the President of the Alaskan conference of mayors, and 5 more years elected experience with Obama. Oh. And do you know how Obama got "elected" to that position?

in addition to building from scratch a large and effective grass roots organization. .

You mean the community organizer bit. Yeah, he was a memeber of ACORN. So what your saying is Obama's brief stint as a South Side rabble-rouser for tax-subsidized, partisan voter fraud "nonprofit organization" who register illegal aliens and dead folks, qualifies as executive experience you can believe in? Seriously, dont go there with the community organizer crap. Its a losing issue no matter how you guys try to swing it.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1725653/posts
http://www.consumersrightsleague.org/UploadedFiles/ACORN_AHC_Report.pdf

He's been in the United States senate as long as Palin has been a governor, of the 47th largest state. A state with a total population several times less than that of metropolatin Denver.

So? Isn't he running for an executive position? You want to put his experience against hers, she wins every time, both in total elective experience as well as executive experience. You really have stretch it to try to make an argument that he has more.

[spdirty]

Already been discussed at length on numerous other threads.

I'm just astounded that even you would think choosing a running mate who is currently under investigation for an abuse of her office is a good idea.

yeah its already been proven to be a pretty damn good idea.

[spdirty]

You sir missed the point entirely, which pretty much points out why the thread was started in the first place. I'm not saying that to be unkind, I'm just trying to point out that maybe you should read it again and really try to understand the bigger picture and respond to that.

well if your talking about the "palinmania" crap then yeah I agree. Also on the "she's just like my wife" or "she's just like me" bit or that you got women going around trying to find the same glasses as Palin has or trying to get the same hairdo as hers. I get that. Its pathetic and frankly, those who will vote simply and only because of that shouldnt be allowed to vote. However, same goes with the "I'm voting for Obama because he is a clean articulate speaker and I want to vote for the first black president" idiots.

[Mr.Meanie]

And what about your observations about Obama, whose dirt on him is much worse, and who has much less experience, (executive, elective, life) than Sarah Palin?

holy crap you're an idiot. wow.

[spdirty]

holy crap you're an idiot. wow.

coming from someone who probably gets all of their news from US Weekly, msnbc, and comedy central, thanks.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

holy crap you're an idiot. wow.

And proud of it.

That's Bush's (and now Palin's) base/fan club.

[Mr.Meanie]

coming from someone who probably gets all of their news from US Weekly, msnbc, and comedy central, thanks.

Good one. ::)

Maybe I shouldn't have posted that...and I did have a bit to drink, but your reactionary lemming knee-jerk response just shocked the hell out of me and I posted the first thing that came to my mind.

Actually I never watch any cable news, only see daily show clips if they are circulating the internet, and my home page is the drudgereport. And isn't US weekly a tabloid? ???

I know you probably think everyone who isn't lock-step with the Republican talking points is a flaming lunatic liberal, and I'm sorry I don't fit in your worldview.

I was for Bush the first time around, and I have probably been about 90% for conservative senators... but it's people like you who make me sick to my stomach about the conservative party. People who never take a step back and actually think for themselves for once. I work with mostly all staunch hardcore Republicans, and I can't tell you how many times in the last week I've heard people react like you do to anyone that has another viewpoint.

I got sick of that same reaction from the liberals, tbh, during the last part of the Clinton years. Maybe it's being defensive about the mistakes of whoever is in power that creates that mindset... maybe people feel like they have to justify their poor decisions...who knows. But it's really embarrassing. It follows the theme of this thread perfectly.

[alkemical]

Ok I don't get it. I admit it. I'm not smart enough apparently. The right is infatuated with Palin, not because she's demonstrated that she is an intellectual or particularly capable. Nope, after watching interview after interview with delegates and supporters there is one common refrain: "she's just like me (or my wife)".

When did that become a qualification to be president? Do we really care this little about our country? I've heard and read accounts glowing about the fact that she played sports, has a family, attends a local church (assembly of god, which scares the piss out of me)... she's just like 'Jenny at the PTA'.

Do you really want Jenny to run the country? This is our country for christs sake. A country founded by some of the best thinkers of the enlightenment. We've gone from Washington, Madison, and Jefferson to... THIS?

The hubris that comes with the very idea of it just pisses me off. Its the type of logic that goes into picking your class president, not the leader of the free world. Our world standing is under direct threat on almost every side. Not by terrorists, but by countries who have focused on promoting smart. India, China, and the EU have almost over night developed technology industries that rival ours. Each is going to space. Each is engaging in direct competition with us in areas that we've traditionally dominated. And we're responding with leaders who 'remind me of my mom'.

Wake the hell up people. I love my country more than this... I would hope you would too.


Dude... (lol) - Look man - my friend's wife - watches some reality show about some chick who is "cool" because her life is partying and taking pictures.

People always associate themselves with whom they "identify" with. From religion to political party, etc. The need to "identify" and "Belong" are greater needs than we often realize.

We reward stupid. Look at reality TV - people like Steve-O, the redneck and hip-hop cultures in general (IN general) - stupid is rewarded - stupid is idolized.

Is the dumbing down of America a synergistic effect of consumerism and intention?

[lazarus4444]

I disagree that he has less experience. I've spent a lot of time in small town America. My wife is from a town of nearly identical size to Wasilla Alaska... I see nothing about running a small town that provides you with any level of experience qualifying you to be president of the United States.

At the very least Obama spent 8 years in a state legislature, in addition to building from scratch a large and effective grass roots organization. He's been in the United States senate as long as Palin has been a governor, of the 47th largest state. A state with a total population several times less than that of metropolatin Denver.

In addition Obama is incredibly more qualified academically and intellectually. He holds a post graduate degree from Harvard, she went through 5 schools before pulling out a bachelors degree from the University of Idaho. There is nothing remarkable about her except that she's pretty and ambitious. That you'd be willing to sell your country out to that just sickens me. That Obamas intelligence polls as a god damn HANDICAP should disgust you. The greatest threat to this country isn't terrorism, its institutionalized anti-intellectualism.


HI all, not a frequent visitor to the political forums but read this thread and had to comment. First off, i'm an independent. Secondly, I didn't think Mccain had a chance in hell until he picked Palin. It was brilliant at a surfacy level, she's got that hot librarian penthouse look going on. It's obvious with the dummification of America that the mobs base insticts are on a surface level. Well, look at all the media coverage, it worked.

Obama and his campaign have lost a LOT of momentum in the media when Palin was picked. Will they recover? I doubt it. We all know the media decides the popular vote and then the electoral college picks who they want.

Beyond my base surface level instinct when i look at Sarah Palin (she's hot and i'd hit it) I like this pick by McCain. Why? This country was originally founded to have citizens serve their community as politicians, not to have career politicians. Career politicians are out of touch with America because they are too busy stuffing their pockets (Democrats AND Republicans) and have no idea what an average American's life is like. Sarah Palin has been a "big time" politican for what? 18 months?

This is the closest we'll probably ever get to have somebody in Washington that knows what it is like to live a normal American life. How many career politicians have adult children in the military? You can likely count it on one hand. It's a lot easier to send Americans to die when you don't have a personal stake in the dying part.

So, she is a good pick because she is normal. I think all of these ivy league school ****tards have royally screwed up this country and it's time to get it back in the hands of the American people (Not the political elitest assholes currently in office).

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So, she is a good pick because she is normal.

???

"Normal?"

She's a snake handling whack job!

The church she belongs to is so far off the beaten path of mainstream Christianity as to qualify for cult status.

If your teenage daughter were raped, Palin would force her to carry her rapist's child.

The examples of her extremism go on and on...

She makes Bush look like Dennis Kucinich, for cryin' out loud!

[snowspot66]

I think all of these ivy league school ****tards have royally screwed up this country and it's time to get it back in the hands of the American people (Not the political elitest a-holes currently in office).

We were doing alright until C average Bush took over and his Ivy League education. McCain did even worse at the Naval Academy.

You're telling me we should elect the idiot over the man who built his entire career on the foundation of a prestigious law education? He's too elite? Too good? Knows what he's doing?

I hear all the Republicans shouting "Take back Washington!".

HELLO?! You've owned Washington for the past 8 years! You want to take back Washington for the American people? LEAVE!

[Rohirrim]

We were doing alright until C average Bush took over and his Ivy League education. McCain did even worse at the Naval Academy.

You're telling me we should elect the idiot over the man who built his entire career on the foundation of a prestigious law education? He's too elite? Too good? Knows what he's doing?

I hear all the Republicans shouting "Take back Washington!".

HELLO?! You've owned Washington for the past 8 years! You want to take back Washington for the American people? LEAVE!

8 years? Try twenty eight.

[W*GS]

8 years? Try twenty eight.

You know as well as I do that the Democrats are in this thing up to their necks, no less than the GOP is. It's silly of you to deflect blame just to the GOP, when you're better than that.

[Rohirrim]

You know as well as I do that the Democrats are in this thing up to their necks, no less than the GOP is. It's silly of you to deflect blame just to the GOP, when you're better than that.

Sure, as far as spending goes, although the Dems did a far better job of cutting spending under Clinton/Gore. Bush has been profligate. So was Raygun. The standard economic philosphy (supply side economics) and the primary agenda has been pure GOP since Raygun.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

We were doing alright until C average Bush took over and his Ivy League education. McCain did even worse at the Naval Academy.

You're telling me we should elect the idiot over the man who built his entire career on the foundation of a prestigious law education? He's too elite? Too good? Knows what he's doing?

I hear all the Republicans shouting "Take back Washington!".

HELLO?! You've owned Washington for the past 8 years! You want to take back Washington for the American people? LEAVE!

+1

I wonder if these idiots look for the least-educated doctor when they're shopping for a primary care physician as well?

[Play2win]

I, for one, would like for AMERICA to be the World's ELITE...

[Needa Pass Rush]

+1

I wonder if these idiots look for the least-educated doctor when they're shopping for a primary care physician as well?

You actually shop for a doctor? Enjoy it while you can. :welcome:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Sure, as far as spending goes, although the Dems did a far better job of cutting spending under Clinton/Gore. Bush has been profligate. So was Raygun. The standard economic philosphy (supply side economics) and the primary agenda has been pure GOP since Raygun.

Funny...when anyone mentions economic policies that were successful during the Clinton years, W*GS invariably tries to give the rethugs in Congress the credit. However, that same republican party has controlled Congress for six of the last eight years - and look where we are now.

[Mr.Meanie]

So, she is a good pick because she is normal. I think all of these ivy league school ****tards have royally screwed up this country and it's time to get it back in the hands of the American people (Not the political elitest a-holes currently in office).

Funny, people said almost verbatim the exact same thing when Bush was running.

I will never understand the mentality that we want "normal" people deciding policy for the country, dealing with complex and nuanced foreign affairs, and being the most powerful person in the world.

If you needed brain surgery, would you pick the most "normal" person, the one who you would enjoy having a beer with? Or the most educated person...

The soundbite media and mass American idiocy has created this bizzaro world where the LEAST presidential person is the one people vote for.

[MO<1>]

If education is a qualifier, Lincoln would have never made it. Referring back to the original post- why Americans are identifiying with Palin, is her lack of being owned by party, special interest, or self indulgence.

Ear marks, lobbying, subsidies, bail-outs, and hand-outs need to stop. Republics always fail when the elected leadership use legislation as a money mill.

I can't understand why Americans enjoying thier freedom are enraptured by someone standing above the crowd by standing on their backs. I think non-partisians need to take back thier liberty, the rewards of their hard work, and the future of our country.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You actually shop for a doctor? Enjoy it while you can. :welcome:

Thanks for demonstrating how brainless bobble heads like Bush and Palin are able to get *elected.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Funny, people said almost verbatim the exact same thing when Bush was running.

I will never understand the mentality that we want "normal" people deciding policy for the country, dealing with complex and nuanced foreign affairs, and being the most powerful person in the world.

If you needed brain surgery, would you pick the most "normal" person, the one who you would enjoy having a beer with? Or the most educated person...

The soundbite media and mass American idiocy has created this bizzaro world where the LEAST presidential person is the one people vote for.

QFT.

It's pretty troubling to see how an entire voting bloc seems to believe conservatism = willful ignorance/anti-intellectualism.

[MO<1>]

Thanks for demonstrating how brainless bobble heads like Bush and Palin are able to get *elected.

Thanks for demonstrating the courtesy and arguement of a sheep. Maybe Bush should have bent more so special interest groups and earmarks could have filled the coffers of communitty organizers. When you give up your freedom of choice, you give up your soul.

Bobbleheads shouldn't be allowed to make choices, they are only in the matrix to produce tax revenue so the elite can make sure they do what is good for them. NO SO MUCH.

Power to the People!

[BroncoInferno]

HI all, not a frequent visitor to the political forums but read this thread and had to comment. First off, i'm an independent. Secondly, I didn't think Mccain had a chance in hell until he picked Palin. It was brilliant at a surfacy level, she's got that hot librarian penthouse look going on. It's obvious with the dummification of America that the mobs base insticts are on a surface level. Well, look at all the media coverage, it worked.

Obama and his campaign have lost a LOT of momentum in the media when Palin was picked. Will they recover? I doubt it. We all know the media decides the popular vote and then the electoral college picks who they want.

Beyond my base surface level instinct when i look at Sarah Palin (she's hot and i'd hit it) I like this pick by McCain. Why? This country was originally founded to have citizens serve their community as politicians, not to have career politicians. Career politicians are out of touch with America because they are too busy stuffing their pockets (Democrats AND Republicans) and have no idea what an average American's life is like. Sarah Palin has been a "big time" politican for what? 18 months?

This is the closest we'll probably ever get to have somebody in Washington that knows what it is like to live a normal American life. How many career politicians have adult children in the military? You can likely count it on one hand. It's a lot easier to send Americans to die when you don't have a personal stake in the dying part.

So, she is a good pick because she is normal. I think all of these ivy league school ****tards have royally screwed up this country and it's time to get it back in the hands of the American people (Not the political elitest a-holes currently in office).

Someone "normal" running the free world is the absolute LAST thing we need. I'm tired of this "gee, I'd like to have a beer with him/her so I think they'd make a good president" way of voting. That got us 8 years of Bush. We NEED an intellectual heavy weight making complex economic and foreign policy decisions on our behalf, someone with intellectual curiosity who will listen to opposing viewpoints and take them into consideration. i'm not saying palin isn't a smart woman, but all you need to know about her intellectual curiosity is that she believes in creationism (i.e. the world is ~6000 years old). It's time to let the intellectual elites back in charge and see what they can do.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Thanks for demonstrating the courtesy and arguement of a sheep. Maybe Bush should have bent more so special interest groups and earmarks could have filled the coffers of communitty organizers. When you give up your freedom of choice, you give up your soul.

Bobbleheads shouldn't be allowed to make choices, they are only in the matrix to produce tax revenue so the elite can make sure they do what is good for them. NO SO MUCH.

Power to the People!

???

Where's Spider's graphic showing the trooper pulling someone over for being "too stupid to be on the Internet" when you need it? Ha!

[Mr.Meanie]

T Maybe Bush should have bent more so special interest groups and earmarks could have filled the coffers of communitty organizers.

I'm sorry, but Bush has been the absolute epitome of lobbyist and special interest handouts. Are you kidding me?

I like McCain's attitude about special interests. I think he's bucked the Republicans and Democrats for a long time about special interest crap...and I admire and respect him for that. Honestly if McCain had picked Romney like I thought he would, I would probably be for them.

That's why I don't understand the Palin pick, because she is NOT in line with McCain's anti-lobbyist, anti-earmark views. Not even close.

[alkemical]

I'm sorry, but Bush has been the absolute epitome of lobbyist and special interest handouts. Are you kidding me?

I like McCain's attitude about special interests. I think he's bucked the Republicans and Democrats for a long time about special interest crap...and I admire and respect him for that. Honestly if McCain had picked Romney like I thought he would, I would probably be for them.

That's why I don't understand the Palin pick, because she is NOT in line with McCain's anti-lobbyist, anti-earmark views. Not even close.



Mccain...anti-lobbyist? You mean the same Mccain that voted for the telecom immunity bill?

[MO<1>]

Actually, earmarks decreased under the Bush administration, lobbyists have felt that their hands were tied. Bush called for alternate fuel sources in the 02 State of the Union address (specifically hydrogen fuel cell technology) and Palin turned back earmarks to the federal government. In reality, too many communitty activists, lobbyists, and lawyers make a living being paid for influence, and the life-time salary and inffectious for a one-term power of a one term congressman and senator is too addictive. Bush even proposed the federal government relinquishing responsibility for taxation to the states, but our congress and senate do not want to relinquish the revenue generating power they have. There are twice as many employees in the IRS as in the Marine Corps. How would all the tax advisers feed their families if the federal government adopted a flat tax that was levied on the states and based proportionally on their seats in congress?

It is time to stand up for liberty, to take back our rights from those that would be self-serving tyranical bullies denying our freedom of choice. This election, like most in recent history, is about electing the less evil.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That's why I don't understand the Palin pick, because she is NOT in line with McCain's anti-lobbyist, anti-earmark views. Not even close.

Yep.

She's the earmark/pork queen.

Oh well - the GOP spin jobbers are probably confident that the base won't notice this inconvenient fact or care about it.

[alkemical]

Actually, earmarks decreased under the Bush administration, lobbyists have felt that their hands were tied. Bush called for alternate fuel sources in the 02 State of the Union address (specifically hydrogen fuel cell technology) and Palin turned back earmarks to the federal government. In reality, too many communitty activists, lobbyists, and lawyers make a living being paid for influence, and the life-time salary and inffectious for a one-term power of a one term congressman and senator is too addictive. Bush even proposed the federal government relinquishing responsibility for taxation to the states, but our congress and senate do not want to relinquish the revenue generating power they have. There are twice as many employees in the IRS as in the Marine Corps. How would all the tax advisers feed their families if the federal government adopted a flat tax that was levied on the states and based proportionally on their seats in congress?

It is time to stand up for liberty, to take back our rights from those that would be self-serving tyranical bullies denying our freedom of choice. This election, like most in recent history, is about electing the less evil.



As for electing the lesser evil: it's trying to determine who's **** stinks the least - while ignoring that ****...is still **** -

[MO<1>]

How could Palin be the earmark/pork queen when she has never legislated any federal funding? How could she have earmarked anything? Is this intellectual thinking or more partisan rhetoric. Is this continued tyranical bullying?
Does belligerence and derogative bullying make you an itellectual or the "voice of reason." It probably made you popular in high school, but do we really want our nation to be governed on the level of high school student body elections?

[alkemical]

How could Palin be the earmark/pork queen when she has never legislated any federal funding? How could she have earmarked anything? Is this intellectual thinking or more partisan rhetoric. Is this continued tyranical bullying?
Does belligerence and derogative bullying make you an itellectual or the "voice of reason." It probably made you popular in high school, but do we really want our nation to be governed on the level of high school student body elections?

who are you talking to?

[lazarus4444]

I never saw Bush as a normal person. To me he was the spoiled son of a rich family and seeing him get elected scared me to death (rightfully so!). Bush has never had to take responsibility in his life and i'm still scratching my head on how he got into office, twice even.

[gyldenlove]

Ok I don't get it. I admit it. I'm not smart enough apparently. The right is infatuated with Palin, not because she's demonstrated that she is an intellectual or particularly capable. Nope, after watching interview after interview with delegates and supporters there is one common refrain: "she's just like me (or my wife)".

When did that become a qualification to be president? Do we really care this little about our country? I've heard and read accounts glowing about the fact that she played sports, has a family, attends a local church (assembly of god, which scares the piss out of me)... she's just like 'Jenny at the PTA'.

Do you really want Jenny to run the country? This is our country for christs sake. A country founded by some of the best thinkers of the enlightenment. We've gone from Washington, Madison, and Jefferson to... THIS?

The hubris that comes with the very idea of it just pisses me off. Its the type of logic that goes into picking your class president, not the leader of the free world. Our world standing is under direct threat on almost every side. Not by terrorists, but by countries who have focused on promoting smart. India, China, and the EU have almost over night developed technology industries that rival ours. Each is going to space. Each is engaging in direct competition with us in areas that we've traditionally dominated. And we're responding with leaders who 'remind me of my mom'.

Wake the hell up people. I love my country more than this... I would hope you would too.

Let me field this one: it turns out that America is no longer run by politicians, it is run by corporations and interest groups. The only power the President, Vice President and all the monkeys in Congress and the Senate has is to sign off on suggestions made by people who can afford to fork over the dough. So it doesn't matter who is in charge because Wal-mart, Exxon, Haliburton, GE, Big Tobacco, Big Weapons, Big Auto, and Fat Bob from Bob's bar and grill and tittie bar will run the country the way they see fit anyway.

[Garcia Bronco]

Let me field this one: it turns out that America is no longer run by politicians, it is run by corporations and interest groups. The only power the President, Vice President and all the monkeys in Congress and the Senate has is to sign off on suggestions made by people who can afford to fork over the dough. So it doesn't matter who is in charge because Wal-mart, Exxon, Haliburton, GE, Big Tobacco, Big Weapons, Big Auto, and Fat Bob from Bob's bar and grill and tittie bar will run the country the way they see fit anyway.

You forgot Big Corn

[Garcia Bronco]

How could Palin be the earmark/pork queen when she has never legislated any federal funding? How could she have earmarked anything? Is this intellectual thinking or more partisan rhetoric.

I explained that last week. She requested Federal funding. The problem with earmarks is that they are not in the law that reaches the Presidents desk. It's not so much the existence of earmarks.

[Garcia Bronco]

Actually, earmarks decreased under the Bush administration, lobbyists have felt that their hands were tied. Bush called for alternate fuel sources in the 02 State of the Union address (specifically hydrogen fuel cell technology) and Palin turned back earmarks to the federal government. In reality, too many communitty activists, lobbyists, and lawyers make a living being paid for influence, and the life-time salary and inffectious for a one-term power of a one term congressman and senator is too addictive. Bush even proposed the federal government relinquishing responsibility for taxation to the states, but our congress and senate do not want to relinquish the revenue generating power they have. There are twice as many employees in the IRS as in the Marine Corps. How would all the tax advisers feed their families if the federal government adopted a flat tax that was levied on the states and based proportionally on their seats in congress?

It is time to stand up for liberty, to take back our rights from those that would be self-serving tyranical bullies denying our freedom of choice. This election, like most in recent history, is about electing the less evil.

He also repeatedly asked congress to completely scrap the tax code and nothing. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

The problem in this country is Congress. It isn't the President.

[alkemical]

He also repeatedly asked congress to completely scrap the tax code and nothing. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

The problem in this country is Congress. It isn't the President.

That's a little bit of horse ****

[gyldenlove]

You forgot Big Corn

damnit damnit damnit, how the hell could I forget Big Corn, the darkest and most subversive power of all

:oyvey:

[MO<1>]

That's a little bit of horse ****

Garcia hit the truth, now we get the progressive arguement. I deeply admire the brainpower it took to express itellectual thoughtfulness by deciding what type of manure it is. The probem is congress, now we want them to have total control- not some lawnmower repairman that would ignore BIG corn. Where is the lawnmower subsidies?

[alkemical]

Garcia hit the truth, now we get the progressive arguement. I deeply admire the brainpower it took to express itellectual thoughtfulness by deciding what type of manure it is. The probem is congress, now we want them to have total control- not some lawnmower repairman that would ignore BIG corn. Where is the lawnmower subsidies?

No, it's a partial truth - it's not the whole truth.

You could have the DOJ rule that the Telecom Immunity bill is a circumvention of the 4th amendment - but we don't, do we. (Just an example).

[MO<1>]

The DOJ does rulings? Wow, is Nazi Pelozi running the country completely. The Shadow Government is the left. We use to call it the Senate and Congress (that is back when there was a judicial branch that didn't answer to the DNC). Obama said the truth today, he thinks Americans are stupid and he can lead them till the waters suside and the earth is healed.

[TheDave]

Only in America do people make up reasons to vote for the village idiot over the smart guy...

You know... After reading this thread I've changed my mind.

We are officially ****ed.

[MO<1>]

And proud of it.

That's Bush's (and now Palin's) base/fan club.

Another exhibition of intelligent thought from the Obama cult. Tyrants and bullies. Glad to see the enthralled mass that littered Invesco field is scared of an so called unaqualified bona fide from the sticks.

[Spider]

Only in America do people make up reasons to vote for the village idiot over the smart guy...

You know... After reading this thread I've changed my mind.

We are officially ****ed.

LOL it is amazing isnt it ... part that gets me is these turds really believe the crap they are spewing

[alkemical]

The DOJ does rulings? Wow, is Nazi Pelozi running the country completely. The Shadow Government is the left. We use to call it the Senate and Congress (that is back when there was a judicial branch that didn't answer to the DNC). Obama said the truth today, he thinks Americans are stupid and he can lead them till the waters suside and the earth is healed.

Yeah, you know the DOJ, one of the 3 branches of gov't we have (Executive and Legislative are the other two) Really? I'd figure the current president thinks Americans are stupid. But it's cool that you showed your biasedness. I mean afterall - We only got bush and palin talking about "doing god's will".

[alkemical]

Only in America do people make up reasons to vote for the village idiot over the smart guy...

You know... After reading this thread I've changed my mind.

We are officially ****ed.

I know dave, i know.

[TailgateNut]

Another exhibition of intelligent thought from the Obama cult. Tyrants and bullies. Glad to see the enthralled mass that littered Invesco field is scared of an so called unaqualified bona fide from the sticks.



Yeah, we are scared that someone so unqualified/ vindictive and dangerously associated/ linked to GOD would be allowed to run our country if/ when McStain croaks.
She's the tyrant/ bully, as her records show. She has shown a pattern of abuse of power, which I can only hope is properly exposed prior to the election. That is one of the main reasons McStain and the repukes are hiding Palin in the closet.

[Rohirrim]

Only in America do people make up reasons to vote for the village idiot over the smart guy...

You know... After reading this thread I've changed my mind.

We are officially ****ed.

Welcome to Walmart America: Proud to be Dumb. :wave:

[MO<1>]

Yeah, we are scared that someone so unqualified/ vindictive and dangerously associated/ linked to GOD would be allowed to run our country if/ when McStain croaks.
She's the tyrant/ bully, as her records show. She has shown a pattern of abuse of power, which I can only hope is properly exposed prior to the election. That is one of the main reasons McStain and the repukes are hiding Palin in the closet.

So:
1. Being linked to God is a bad thing?
2. Palin is hiding in the closet by being such an intense focus of Obama supporters?
3. You resorted to call McCain and the Republican party names so you can demonstrate your intellectualism? I thought intelligent people didn't have to resort to the lowest form of communication. Are you going to start grunting?

[BroncoInferno]

So:
1. Being linked to God is a bad thing?

When you claim that wars are a "task" from said God, then yes.

[MO<1>]

When you claim that wars are a "task" from said God, then yes.

Like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Woodrow Wilson, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt? Like King David, Solomon, Muhamed, Charlamaigne? Stalin acted without regards to any spiritual compass.

[BroncoInferno]

Like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Woodrow Wilson, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt? Like King David, Solomon, Muhamed, Charlamaigne? Stalin acted without regards to any spiritual compass.

Washington and Jefferson were deists (as is clearly reflected in their writings), they mentioned "God" in speeches to pander to their bases.

I don't mind referencing God, my problem is making decisions based on your belief that God has tasked certain things or given you some personal revelation. Call me crazy, but I prefer decisions made based on facts and logic.

[MO<1>]

Washington and Jefferson were deists (as is clearly reflected in their writings), they mentioned "God" in speeches to pander to their bases.

I don't mind referencing God, my problem is making decisions based on your belief that God has tasked certain things or given you some personal revelation. Call me crazy, but I prefer decisions made based on facts and logic.

So it is only Christians that scare you? By the way, you may need to read more about Washington and Jefferson. As Masons, they did keep thier beliefs private, but they did pray for the glory of God. Even Rev Wright would probably disagree that God does not call people to taskings or give personal revelations. I'm definitely not a Christian, but only an atheist would think there is no reason to have spirituality.

[BroncoInferno]

So it is only Christians that scare you? By the way, you may need to read more about Washington and Jefferson. As Masons, they did keep thier beliefs private, but they did pray for the glory of God. Even Rev Wright would probably disagree that God does not call people to taskings or give personal revelations. I'm definitely not a Christian, but only an atheist would think there is no reason to have spirituality.

I think you need read some of Jefferson's and Washington's personal papers...As deists they did believe in the "clockmaker" god, but Jefferson in particular abhorred religion.

In any case, did you read my post? I said I didn't care about referencing god or having spirituality...my problem is believing that god has "tasked" certain things to you (as Palin stated) or making policy decisions that effect everyone based on what you think god is telling you. I want leaders who make decisions based on facts and logic, not nudgings from what they believe to be god.

[TailgateNut]

So:
1. Being linked to God is a bad thing?
2. Palin is hiding in the closet by being such an intense focus of Obama supporters?
3. You resorted to call McCain and the Republican party names so you can demonstrate your intellectualism? I thought intelligent people didn't have to resort to the lowest form of communication. Are you going to start grunting?



1. Yes it is when you talk to him/her, or he/ she talks to you. ESpecially considering the implied separation of church and state.
2. Palin is hiding in the closet with all of her "skeletons".
3. I call them names, because they do not deserve MY respect. Your Sheepish party has completely ****ed our country in the proverbial ass due to their greedy/ Buddies first philosophy.

BTW: I am beyond grunting!

[MO<1>]

I think you need read some of Jefferson's and Washington's personal papers...As deists they did believe in the "clockmaker" god, but Jefferson in particular abhorred religion.

In any case, did you read my post? I said I didn't care about referencing god or having spirituality...my problem is believing that god has "tasked" certain things to you (as Palin stated) or making policy decisions that effect everyone based on what you think god is telling you. I want leaders who make decisions based on facts and logic, not nudgings from what they believe to be god.

So, what I am reading is that you want leaders who make decisions without any passion or moral compass? Just like Stalin. Well, then it would appear you can also cross off Obama, Biden, and McCain. These guys have all expressed thier faith that God moves them. The bible was even openly tied to the campaign theatrics at Invesco. Even I am in strong disagreement with fundamental Christian beliefs, but I would not discriminate based on someone's personal relationship with God because it differs from mine.

[BroncoInferno]

So, what I am reading is that you want leaders who make decisions without any passion or moral compass? Just like Stalin. Well, then it would appear you can also cross off Obama, Biden, and McCain. These guys have all expressed thier faith that God moves them. The bible was even openly tied to the campaign theatrics at Invesco. Even I am in strong disagreement with fundamental Christian beliefs, but I would not discriminate based on someone's personal relationship with God because it differs from mine.

So, you can only have a "moral compass" if you believe in god?

And, in any case, you are being obtuse because I never said my leaders had to be atheists...I merely ask that they don't make decisions based on what the perceive to be god talking them.

[MO<1>]

Oh, so you are too intellectual to believe that God has any influence on mankind?

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson

[TailgateNut]

Anyone, and I do mean anyone who represents the public should be required to show proof of conversations with their god. A recording of the "conversations" should suffice. If they cannot provide evidence then they need to be removed from office due to clear indications of mental illness!

[BroncoInferno]

Oh, so you are too intellectual to believe that God has any influence on mankind?

I don't approve of folks making decisions on my behalf based on a conversation they believe they had with god. Is this that hard to understand?

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

And on and on.

[TailgateNut]

Oh, so you are too intellectual to believe that God has any influence on mankind?

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson


No the belief in divine type beings is one of the major problaems the world faces. It may be the #1 reason for wars.

I personally don't give a **** if you pray to Allah, God, or the ****ing sun, just keep that **** to yourself and don't shove it down our throats.

[MO<1>]

It neither empties my pocket nor breaks my leg. Nor did it move Jefferson to free his enslaved servants and concubines. Not all great thinkers are always pure as the driven snow. It does demonstrate that we are now down to the simple mudslinging and grasps due to the fact that it is easier to be the lesser of the two evils than the greater good.

[BroncoInferno]

It neither empties my pocket nor breaks my leg. Nor did it move Jefferson to free his enslaved servants and concubines. Not all great thinkers are always pure as the driven snow. It does demonstrate that we are now down to the simple mudslinging and grasps due to the fact that it is easier to be the lesser of the two evils than the greater good.

Where did I say Jefferson was "pure as the driven snow"? I was countering your quote that tried to paint Jefferson as religious.

[MO<1>]

Where did I say Jefferson was "pure as the driven snow"? I was countering your quote that tried to paint Jefferson as religious.

Never said you did, just wanted draw the parity between those who believe Obama is omnipotent. I enjoyed our conversation and I respect your high admiration of Jefferson, and exercising your right to question others reasoning. Jefferson was a man of faith- but not religion. All Scottish Rite Masons believe there is a higher authority that moves men to do greater good for all of humanity.

One last thought, is it better to make decisions based on religious belief that what you do is the will of God for the betterment of humanity or for your own personal gain (power, money, sex, reputation)?

[Mr.Meanie]

One last thought, is it better to make decisions based on religious belief that what you do is the will of God for the betterment of humanity or for your own personal gain (power, money, sex, reputation)?

Those are the only 2 options, huh?

What's better? Killing your wife because God said to do it, or being a loving father and husband because you're a good person?

2 extremely limited choices with stupid answers....

[alkemical]

Oh, so you are too intellectual to believe that God has any influence on mankind?

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson

“The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization.”

Robert Anton Wilson