McSame speech

[Rigs11]

HE is supposedly going to call for stopping the "partisan rancor" tonight. Yep one day after his attack pitbull with lipstick attacked obama with lies. The republican hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[spdirty]

Cindy lookin and soundin great

[TheDave]

That woman has an EXCELLENT plastic surgeon... Good for her.

[Rigs11]

Cindy lookin and soundin great

She looks like a vampire.

http://blog.mlive.com/elections_source/2008/02/large_20080221-john-cindy-mccain.jpg

[spdirty]

She looks like a vampire.

http://blog.mlive.com/elections_source/2008/02/large_20080221-john-cindy-mccain.jpg

you are so ****in small...why does everything have to be political with you nutjobs?

Why dont you add a snide little man comment on Piper Palin Licking her hand last night?

[Rigs11]

you are so ****in small...why does everything have to be political with you nutjobs?

Why dont you add a snide little man comment on Piper Palin Licking her hand last night?

Umm this is a political board numbnuts.

[Sim Pilot 4.0]

How freaking boring can it get... Anyone want to take bets on how many times mccain say's my friends tonight... I guess 100

[ant1999e]

She looks like a vampire.

http://blog.mlive.com/elections_source/2008/02/large_20080221-john-cindy-mccain.jpg

And she sucked the life out of him.

[Rigs11]

How freaking boring can it get... Anyone want to take bets on how many times mccain say's my friends tonight... I guess 100

150 on "my friends" and 275 on "POW".

[Spider]

She looks like a vampire.

http://blog.mlive.com/elections_source/2008/02/large_20080221-john-cindy-mccain.jpg

I would hit it ..Call it a grudge ****

[tnedator]

Wacko liberals trying to disrupt the speech.

[Rigs11]

"Brains...Brains..."

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Cindy def has a good plastic surgeon for sure...how old is the c*nt (mccain's words, not mine) anyway?

[tnedator]

Cindy def has a good plastic surgeon for sure...how old is the **** (mccain's words, not mine) anyway?

Nice, quality analysis of the speech and the issues. :thumbsup:

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Nice, quality analysis of the speech and the issues. :thumbsup:

I've said about as much as he's sad about the issues. All im getting is platitudes and a laundry list of people's stories at the moment. More of the same "we'll change," "we'll change" Im not gonna tell ya how, but we'll do it. By the way, we support everything the current admin does, mmmk? Thanks

[Rigs11]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/thelede/posts/0202mccain.jpg

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

She looks like a vampire.



One who wants to suck the blood out of the middle class and the American economy.

And ol' John looks like he should be on life support - truly cadaverous. Yikes!

[tnedator]

I've said about as much as he's sad about the issues. All im getting is platitudes and a laundry list of people's stories at the moment. More of the same "we'll change," "we'll change" Im not gonna tell ya how, but we'll do it. By the way, we support everything the current admin does, mmmk? Thanks

Ahhh, so rather than staying true to your 'issues' you just mock and slam. Gotcha :thumbs:

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I dont know why im watching this, it just makes me angry. I dont need to lose anymore hair.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Ahhh, so rather than staying true to your 'issues' you just mock and slam. Gotcha :thumbs:

Did I mock or slam? This is all he's saying. Is this honestly an inspiring speech?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Cindy def has a good plastic surgeon for sure...how old is the **** (mccain's words, not mine) anyway?

:giggle:

I was about to say - she probably spends as much on cosmetic surgery as most of us make in a year.

[tnedator]

I dont know why im watching this, it just makes me angry. I dont need to lose anymore hair.

Why is it making you angry? Because he is actually talking about issues, rather than simply putting on a big, Mile High show?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Why is it making you angry? Because he is actually talking about issues, rather than simply putting on a big, Mile High show?

He FINALLY now got on to some issues.

Before that its was about how Obama will screw things up (never really explaining how) and blah blah.

And c'mon, even if you hate Obama, his was a great speech...by the way which covered every issue.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Is this honestly an inspiring speech?

About as inspiring as watching paint dry.

No wonder gramps figured he needed Caribou Barbie to do her dog and pony show.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Why is it making you angry? Because he is actually talking about issues, rather than simply putting on a big, Mile High show?

It makes me angry that 80 percent of the country is upset with the current path, yet at least 42 percent of them are willing to vote for it again.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

About as inspiring as watching paint dry.

No wonder gramps figured he needed Caribou Barbie to do her dog and pony show.

Yeah, i thought many parts of Annie Oakley's speech was distasteful, but at least she kept my attention.

[Rigs11]

wow TelePrompter wow..too fast..

[Sim Pilot 4.0]

We're gonna attack :D LOL war on the brain

[spdirty]

too bad none of the great laundry list will get accomplished with the current idiotic congress in there.

[Bronco Jamus]

150 on "my friends" and 275 on "POW".

Why are you threatened by him being a POW?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Why are you threatened by him being a POW?

He's not threatened by it, we're just sick of him reminding us of it every five seconds....like that video that introduced him. It's his answer to everything.

[tnedator]

He FINALLY now got on to some issues.

Before that its was about how Obama will screw things up (never really explaining how) and blah blah.

And c'mon, even if you hate Obama, his was a great speech...by the way which covered every issue.

Obama didn't give details, he spoke buzzwords. Yes, it was a great show. He is far more gifted then any Republican at giving big speechs, scripted shows. Don't get me wrong, the man is good. He simply has no real record to be judged on, he waffles so he is never pinned down, he continues to 'vote present', even on the campaign trail.

It makes me angry that 80 percent of the country is upset with the current path, yet at least 42 percent of them are willing to vote for it again.

You might have missed it, but McCain ran against Bush in 2000 and hasn't sniffed the nomination again until a surprise, last minute surge (no pun intended), made him the surprise nominee.

Staunch conservatives hate him. Rush, Hannity, Ingram, etc., etc., were not fans of McCain for POTUS, because they think he is too liberal.

It is simply Obama's campaign's words you are parroting about the 4 more years of the Bush administration.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

too bad none of the great laundry list will get accomplished with the current idiotic congress in there.

You guys had six years of full republican government....where did that get us? And by the way, you SHOULD LOVE this current democrat congress, they defer to you on pretty much every issue.

[Sim Pilot 4.0]

Does anyone have some paint that I can watch dry while he talks about vietnam again.

[Bronco Jamus]

too bad none of the great laundry list will get accomplished with the current idiotic congress in there.

9 percent approval rating and the entire Democrat ticket is from that group.

[Sim Pilot 4.0]

We have to catch up to history, yet he doesn't understand "The Internet"

[Rigs11]

MCcain: Voted NO on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)

http://www.ontheissues.org/john_mccain.htm

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Obama didn't give details, he spoke buzzwords. Yes, it was a great show. He is far more gifted then any Republican at giving big speechs, scripted shows. Don't get me wrong, the man is good. He simply has no real record to be judged on, he waffles so he is never pinned down, he continues to 'vote present', even on the campaign trail.



You might have missed it, but McCain ran against Bush in 2000 and hasn't sniffed the nomination again until a surprise, last minute surge (no pun intended), made him the surprise nominee.

Staunch conservatives hate him. Rush, Hannity, Ingram, etc., etc., were not fans of McCain for POTUS, because they think he is too liberal.

It is simply Obama's campaign's words you are parroting about the 4 more years of the Bush administration.


Big difference, I actually didn't mind the John McCain of 2000. It's a completely different candidate unfortunately (not that i would have voted for him then, i would obviously still have voted for gore). The John McCain of 2000-2002 didnt support BS like the bush tax cuts. That John McCain didnt like torture. That John McCain dindt bow down to oil companies. That John McCain understood the effects of global warming (this one picks a VP that thinks its a natural phenomenon.) The reason those guys didnt like him is because he wasnt really a conservative. NOW HE IS. Totally different candidate and most conservatives and old mccain democrats agre.

And what did you want Obama to do? Bring out pie charts? All of his plans are pretty detailed on his website.

So no, im not quote Obama's buzz words. He voted with Bush 90 percent of the time and he's not prosposing any real legislation thats any different than bush would have. Very similar.

[Sim Pilot 4.0]

Now scars are qualifiers for president

[Bronco Jamus]

He's not threatened by it, we're just sick of him reminding us of it every five seconds....like that video that introduced him. It's his answer to everything.

It was a quite an acheivement. It's amazing he's alive and fought for our country to keep a dictatorship at bay. You should respect that and not complain about it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

9 percent approval rating and the entire Democrat ticket is from that group.

The republi-cons have been in control of the Congress for six of the last eight years.

You conveniently left that part out.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

9 percent approval rating and the entire Democrat ticket is from that group.

As I said, you should love them....the republicans have gotten EVERYTHING they wanted. Any democrat bill sent to the floor that they've disagreed with has been veteod. Anything they'd like to send comes with the threat of veto.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Why are you threatened by him being a POW?

McCain is a POW? ;)

[tnedator]

Does anyone have some paint that I can watch dry while he talks about vietnam again.

He flew a real plane, rather than a sim. Just saying...

[Bronco Jamus]

Now scars are qualifiers for president


Do you even understand or know what he went through?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

It was a quite an acheivement. It's amazing he's alive and fought for our country to keep a dictatorship at bay. You should respect that and not complain about it.

No doubt, but what's that have to do with running a country? Everyone currently in Guantanamo Bay could be president if thats all it took

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ahhh, so rather than staying true to your 'issues' you just mock and slam. Gotcha :thumbs:

You mean like Caribou Barbie did last night?

(To the cheers of the rightards on this board?)

Gotcha. :thumbs:

[tnedator]

So no, im not quote Obama's buzz words. He voted with Bush 90 percent of the time and he's not prosposing any real legislation thats any different than bush would have. Very similar.

It's parroting Obama's campaign. They are a good campaign, you shouldn't 'necessarily' be ashamed.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

It's parroting Obama's campaign. They are a good campaign, you shouldn't 'necessarily' be ashamed.

Well, it's true! I never said i was ashamed of that, I said i wasn't just saying what they are telling me to say.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

tnedator, in all honesty, do you think this is a good speech. Dont tell me about Obama's speech or Palin's speech or anything....do you think this is a good speech?

[Sim Pilot 4.0]

prisoners. How is his war experience going to help the mortgage crisis?

[tnedator]

You mean like Caribou Barbie did last night?

(To the cheers of the rightards on this board?)

Gotcha. :thumbs:

Yep, it's a VPs job in elections to be the pit bull. How do you tell a hockey mom from a pitbull? One wears lipstick.

The sad part is that she, with the aide of her speech writers, along with Rudy, carved Obama up, because he can't get the simplest thing right.

The ability to check YES or NO...

[Bronco Jamus]

No doubt, but what's that have to do with running a country? Everyone currently in Guantanamo Bay could be president if thats all it took


He'll be the leader of the Armed Forces. Military experience is a big deal.

[Sim Pilot 4.0]

Never mind he's going to use his knowledge of arm breaking to intimidate the banks

[SonOfLe-loLang]

He'll be the leader of the Armed Forces. Military experience is a big deal.

He was a pilot, not a 4 star general leading battalions.

[Rigs11]

Voted YES on defunding renewable and solar energy. (Jun 1999)

http://www.ontheissues.org/john_mccain.htm

[tnedator]

tnedator, in all honesty, do you think this is a good speech. Dont tell me about Obama's speech or Palin's speech or anything....do you think this is a good speech?

Look at my comments in the Palin speech thread. Why do you think I said that Palin is one of, if not the the best, Republican speech giver in decades.

The Republicans have not had a charismatic, engaging candidate in a VERY long time.

I think he is clearly stating what he plans to do for the country, unlike Obama, but he can't touch Obama's speech giving talents.

[Bronco Jamus]

He was a pilot, not a 4 star general leading battalions.

I know. He has ground level experience. That's what we need.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Yep, it's a VPs job in elections to be the pit bull. How do you tell a hockey mom from a pitbull? One wears lipstick.

The sad part is that she, with the aide of her speech writers, along with Rudy, carved Obama up, because he can't get the simplest thing right.

The ability to check YES or NO...

While this is true, I think she was better served introducing herself to the public in a better way. I think she did well with her base, but probably alienated independents (as those focus groups are suggesting). People are very curious about her, and she just slammed obama without much substance.

And belitting him as just a "community" or "street" organizer was really poor form. Not to mention, it has racist undertones. We all know what they meant by that. He wasn't just a community organizer (which christians value because lots of community organizers are in christian organizations) he was a community organizer in south side, black chicago.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Look at my comments in the Palin speech thread. Why do you think I said that Palin is one of, if not the the best, Republican speech giver in decades.

The Republicans have not had a charismatic, engaging candidate in a VERY long time.

I think he is clearly stating what he plans to do for the country, unlike Obama, but he can't touch Obama's speech giving talents.

His layout for his plans were no different than obama's, watch Obama's speech again and come back and tell me if McCain was any more detailed.

Palin's speech was fine, but i didnt think it was anything more than just an inspired republican stump speech. Simply put, if she's a white male, no one cares as much.

Though, admittedly, if Obama was a white male in 04, people probably wouldnt have made a huge deal either.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I know. He has ground level experience. That's what we need.

I know some iraq veterans that have ground experience that I wouldn't trust running a convenient store, what's your point?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

And by the way, you fight war very differently than you did in Vietnam. And, as proven by iraq, fighting terrorism with military force doesnt really work.

[Rigs11]

I know some iraq veterans that have ground experience that I wouldn't trust running a convenient store, what's your point?

You damn anti patriotHa!

[tnedator]

While this is true, I think she was better served introducing herself to the public in a better way. I think she did well with her base, but probably alienated independents (as those focus groups are suggesting). People are very curious about her, and she just slammed obama without much substance.

And belitting him as just a "community" or "street" organizer was really poor form. Not to mention, it has racist undertones. We all know what they meant by that. He wasn't just a community organizer (which christians value because lots of community organizers are in christian organizations) he was a community organizer in south side, black chicago.

God, don't pull the race card, among all the sexist attacks launched on Palin. The small town slams coming from the Obama camp. You didn't just do that, did you.

If Obama's campaign didn't slam her right after her introduction for starting out as a small town mayor, they wouldn't have had such a huge opening to fire back. The Obama campaign and left wing blogs and media (NBC, MSNBC, et. al) attacking her and her family gave them carte blanche to attack back.

We will see over the next week or so as the polls and other feedback comes in what America thought of her speech.

[ant1999e]

And by the way, you fight war very differently than you did in Vietnam. And, as proven by iraq, fighting terrorism with military force doesnt really work.

You use peace and love. :peace:

[Bronco Jamus]

And by the way, you fight war very differently than you did in Vietnam. And, as proven by iraq, fighting terrorism with military force doesnt really work.

You could have more confidence in your friends.

[tnedator]

Palin's speech was fine, but i didnt think it was anything more than just an inspired republican stump speech. Simply put, if she's a white male, no one cares as much.


Simply put, if she was a white male, or a black male for that matter, the Obama camp, and nearly every news organization, wouldn't have IMMEDIATELY pointed out after her speech that someone else wrote it.

While I can understand it from Fox, I am blown away that the party of women's lib, and the liberal mouth pieces (NBC, MSNBC, CNN, etc.), would attack a woman so much, and insinuate that the ONLY way a woman could give a speech is if someone else wrote it, like every other politician (including Obama, we have already gone down this road), it would NEVER have been brought up.

[Rigs11]

God, don't pull the race card, among all the sexist attacks launched on Palin. The small town slams coming from the Obama camp. You didn't just do that, did you.

If Obama's campaign didn't slam her right after her introduction for starting out as a small town mayor, they wouldn't have had such a huge opening to fire back. The Obama campaign and left wing blogs and media (NBC, MSNBC, et. al) attacking her and her family gave them carte blanche to attack back.

We will see over the next week or so as the polls and other feedback comes in what America thought of her speech.
Is palin running for pres or Mccain? You seem confused.As for race, did you see the lack of it in the crowd as opposed to the multiracial crowd obama had?

[Rohirrim]

I thought that was a very impressive speech. It might have won him the presidency. There's plenty more to come, but I thought that speech was far more effective than Obama's was. He ended with a great, rousing theme, "Stand up and fight for America." I also thought the theme, hammered over and over, that he is a servant of America, not somebody out for his own interests, was very effective. His personal confession that he had been broken by torture is just too powerful to ignore. Obama is going to have to take his game up a notch. It won't be a cakewalk.

[Rigs11]

At least we know mccane is an environmentalist, look at all those balloons..

[SonOfLe-loLang]

God, don't pull the race card, among all the sexist attacks launched on Palin. The small town slams coming from the Obama camp. You didn't just do that, did you.

If Obama's campaign didn't slam her right after her introduction for starting out as a small town mayor, they wouldn't have had such a huge opening to fire back. The Obama campaign and left wing blogs and media (NBC, MSNBC, et. al) attacking her and her family gave them carte blanche to attack back.

We will see over the next week or so as the polls and other feedback comes in what America thought of her speech.

We will see, and im quite curious to see how she will be received...but polarizing is a word that comes to mind.

But let's talk the history of the neo-con regime here. This entire movement was built by exploiting race back in the 60's and has continued to do so throughout time. Race, in America, is always an issue and i think, still, might be the deciding factor on election day. So dont for a second think that that isn't behind their thoughts. I'm not calling THEM racists, but a lot of the base still is. This is indisputable.

And i dont condone the sexist attacks on Palin, just like I didn't with Clinton. But why shouldnt the democrats question her experience, especially when McCain was RUNNING on experience and picked someone with less than 2 years governer experience in a state thats unlike any other in the union. That's not mean, that's just politics.

And for all the smear campaigns against palin, lets remember they didnt come from Obama/Biden. They came from the blogosphere and the media who has been vetting her since McCain didnt. There's a reason why she's been kept from the media, they aren't quite sure how to handle it yet. I'm sure they'll figure it out, they always do, they find a way to get people to vote for them (and how its beyond me)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The sad part is that she, with the aide of her speech writers, along with Rudy, carved Obama up, because he can't get the simplest thing right.


Hilarious!

Get real!

Once the smoke cleared, it was clear that both speeches were little more than exercises in hyperbole and riddled with inaccuracies and outright lies.

[Rigs11]

I thought that was a very impressive speech. It might have won him the presidency. There's plenty more to come, but I thought that speech was far more effective than Obama's was. He ended with a great, rousing theme, "Stand up and fight for America." I also thought the theme, hammered over and over, that he is a servant of America, not somebody out for his own interests, was very effective. His personal confession that he had been broken by torture is just too powerful to ignore. Obama is going to have to take his game up a notch. It won't be a cakewalk.

He looked old and frayed, couldn't even follow the teleprompter.No way in hell that was a better speech than obama's.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I thought that was a very impressive speech. It might have won him the presidency. There's plenty more to come, but I thought that speech was far more effective than Obama's was. He ended with a great, rousing theme, "Stand up and fight for America." I also thought the theme, hammered over and over, that he is a servant of America, not somebody out for his own interests, was very effective. His personal confession that he had been broken by torture is just too powerful to ignore. Obama is going to have to take his game up a notch. It won't be a cakewalk.

I dunno, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. I thought it was fine if uninspired. I don't think anything he said was all that memorable and I think we all know about his POW experience, they remind us at every moment. This convention will be remembered for Palin's introduction to her base and the country...McCain's comes in second.

I guess we'll see over the next few weeks how this was all received.

I will say, he talks a good game about seperating himself from bush. If the democrats are smart (which they rarely are) they should call him out on this with his record. It's an easy argument.

Gonna be an interesting two months

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

He looked old and frayed, couldn't even follow the teleprompter.No way in hell that was a better speech than obama's.

Yep.

And he's going to need more than just harping on his POW experience to convince the general electorate.

[elsid13]

It was very interesting speech, I thought the begin was not well written or delivered and it lack grand policy. But he will get high marks for 1) pushing let get moving again idea 2) telling his story, I think that most Americans will appreciate his love of country and dedication of public services and 3 The whole attack the problem was very strong ending.

McCain will have problem if he face off Obama in traditional debate, but a town hall style meeting I think it might be a toss up.

[Spider]

prisoners. How is his war experience going to help the mortgage crisis?

LOL we are talking about a guy who picked someone that was a member of Ted stevens 527 , and thinks going into Iraq was gods Idea ....... that tells me we leave logic at the door

[Rohirrim]

He looked old and frayed, couldn't even follow the teleprompter.No way in hell that was a better speech than obama's.

Maybe the delivery wasn't as good. Obama is a much more charismatic speaker certainly. But the content was more affecting, IMO. Obama gave essentially a strong policy speech. McCain's had much more pathos to it. I wouldn't underestimate the effect that speech will have on the country. Obama has his work cut out for him.

[ant1999e]

Maybe the delivery wasn't as good. Obama is a much more charismatic speaker certainly. But the content was more affecting, IMO. Obama gave essentially a strong policy speech. McCain's had much more pathos to it. I wouldn't underestimate the effect that speech will have on the country. Obama has his work cut out for him.

He certainly wasn't as exciting as Obama.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Quite simply.

If this becomes an election based on issues, the democrats will win.

If it becomes one on everything else, the republicans probably will. For some reason there electorate is much more eager and easily swayed.

Though, lets not forget, the democrats are still up in the polls, especially over this week. Anyone's game at this point. And im not sure what the deciding factors will be. Debates in the past have proven not to really influence much...i dunno what its gonna be.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Maybe the delivery wasn't as good. Obama is a much more charismatic speaker certainly. But the content was more affecting, IMO. Obama gave essentially a strong policy speech. McCain's had much more pathos to it. I wouldn't underestimate the effect that speech will have on the country. Obama has his work cut out for him.

On the last part, i agree....but everyone in America already knows his story. He didnt reveal anything that hasnt been shoved down our throats or anything you couldnt read in his books, etc. I dont think people outside his base will really care all that much about that part. Then again, people have voted over stupider.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It was very interesting speech, I thought the begin was not well written or delivered and it lack grand policy. But he will get high marks for 1) pushing let get moving again idea 2) telling his story, I think that most Americans will appreciate his love of country and dedication of public services and 3 The whole attack the problem was very strong ending.

McCain will have problem if he face off Obama in traditional debate, but a town hall style meeting I think it might be a toss up.

I've always said that I respected his service and that I admired him as a fellow veteran - but I think most people realize that his service alone doesn't guarantee that he would make a good president - or, more importantly, the right president for this moment in history.

[ant1999e]

He caught my attention when he talked about his families experience with war and how he hated it and would exhaust all options before going to war.

[Rohirrim]

Quite simply.

If this becomes an election based on issues, the democrats will win.

If it becomes one on everything else, the republicans probably will. For some reason there electorate is much more eager and easily swayed.

Though, lets not forget, the democrats are still up in the polls, especially over this week. Anyone's game at this point. And im not sure what the deciding factors will be. Debates in the past have proven not to really influence much...i dunno what its gonna be.

That's one of the keys. The Dems have to have a debate on the issues. The Rove strategy has been to make the elections about everything but issues. McCain tonight has attempted to carve out a strong position for himself tonight as experienced, separate from Bush, independent of party, dedicated to country, personally tested, and willing to end partisanship. The weakness is that he is dragging the anchor of the same old GOP policies. So the strength is the man and the weakness is the policies. To me, that means the Repubs are going to try to run a campaign based on personality. Same old Rove ****.

[Broncojef]

Yep.

And he's going to need more than just harping on his POW experience to convince the general electorate.

McCain's words were heart felt and appealing to anyone who loves this country. You'll be amazed the people that are stirred by true service to our country and by people who live life with a purpose greater than themselves.

[Drek]

It was very interesting speech, I thought the begin was not well written or delivered and it lack grand policy. But he will get high marks for 1) pushing let get moving again idea 2) telling his story, I think that most Americans will appreciate his love of country and dedication of public services and 3 The whole attack the problem was very strong ending.

McCain will have problem if he face off Obama in traditional debate, but a town hall style meeting I think it might be a toss up.

Depends who's filtering the crowd. If its an even crowd McCain might actually be called out on his flips from 2000 to now and his complete lack of real policies.

[Rohirrim]

McCain's words were heart felt and appealing to anyone who loves this country. You'll be amazed the people that are stirred by true service to our country and by people who live life with a purpose greater than themselves.

I think they struck a chord with anybody who has served, especially when he said his two cellmates saved his life. That just takes you right into that reality.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

That's one of the keys. The Dems have to have a debate on the issues. The Rove strategy has been to make the elections about everything but issues. McCain tonight has attempted to carve out a strong position for himself tonight as experienced, separate from Bush, independent of party, dedicated to country, personally tested, and willing to end partisanship. The weakness is that he is dragging the anchor of the same old GOP policies. So the strength is the man and the weakness is the policies. To me, that means the Repubs are going to try to run a campaign based on personality. Same old Rove ****.

Well that's the thing, he keeps saying he'll change, but he doesnt run on any platforms that suggest it...and he certainly didnt suggest how he would tonight, it was just the typical buzzwords. Its up to the dems to call him out on it.

But the reasons why people vote are so skewed in this country, who the **** knows what will bring people to the polls this time.

[tnedator]

Hilarious!

Get real!

Once the smoke cleared, it was clear that both speeches were little more than exercises in hyperbole and riddled with inaccuracies and outright lies.

Whatever gets you through the night...

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I think they struck a chord with anybody who has served, especially when he said his two cellmates saved his life. That just takes you right into that reality.

But this is rovian politics...make it a character debate, not an issue debate.

By the way, nice response by Hillary...just heard it on MSNBC

[Rohirrim]

Well that's the thing, he keeps saying he'll change, but he doesnt run on any platforms that suggest it...and he certainly didnt suggest how he would tonight, it was just the typical buzzwords. Its up to the dems to call him out on it.

But the reasons why people vote are so skewed in this country, who the **** knows what will bring people to the polls this time.

Flag burning, gay marriage and abortion, oh my.

[tnedator]

It's been fun, gotta hit the sack.

Glad to see some more reasonable posts and the attack dogs a bit at bay.

It doesn't hurt to actually 'discuss' this political issues, rather than just slamming each other for being 'different' or having 'different' views.

[Spider]

McCain's words were heart felt and appealing to anyone who loves this country. You'll be amazed the people that are stirred by true service to our country and by people who live life with a purpose greater than themselves.

I dont doubt his words wernt heart felt , I dont any doubts he loves this country, but that doesnt mean he can run it .........

[Broncojef]

On the last part, i agree....but everyone in America already knows his story. He didnt reveal anything that hasnt been shoved down our throats or anything you couldnt read in his books, etc. I dont think people outside his base will really care all that much about that part. Then again, people have voted over stupider.

I find it interesting that a candidate such as Obama screams change at every turn yet tells no one how it will be accomplished, he offers no valid legislation in his past two years to draw perspective of who the man is, spent more time living in Indonesia than serving the country, shows up to vote sessions and has so little conviction that he votes present 160 times, openly campaigns for higher taxes and more government, runs from any debates McCain wanted to have outside the mandatory ones and yet people follow him blindly because the media props him up. Yell and scream at how true Americans won't be drawn to McCain...I think you'll be surprised.

[Broncojef]

But this is rovian politics...make it a character debate, not an issue debate.

By the way, nice response by Hillary...just heard it on MSNBC

This was the acceptance speech of McCain and Palin the real debates on issues are at a different time in another forum. Don't worry you'll get to see the real Obama and Biden soon...I can hardly wait.

[defenseman]

Maybe the delivery wasn't as good. Obama is a much more charismatic speaker certainly. But the content was more affecting, IMO. Obama gave essentially a strong policy speech. McCain's had much more pathos to it. I wouldn't underestimate the effect that speech will have on the country. Obama has his work cut out for him.

My thoughts exactly. McCain, is NOT a public speaker. Never has been for the most part. He's a town hall guy. Second, Palin is the wild card. Don't think for a second McCain hadn't figured out he would need someone like her, same ole "empty suit" VP and he's toast, He knew this. I will say, IF her popularity grows, and I don't see any reason right now why it shouldn't, you are dead on, Obama has his work cut out for him. Got a friend of mine up at elmandorf AFB, he emailed me and said Palin is an incredible debater, just tears them up at every turn. Biden my friends is good, and I like Biden actually, but Palin may shock us all...dman

[Broncojef]

I dont doubt his words wernt heart felt , I dont any doubts he loves this country, but that doesnt mean he can run it .........

I'll take a man who has been to hell and back for me and my country, fighting in far lands against the enemy over a puppet screaming change anyday of the week.

[Rohirrim]

I find it interesting that a candidate such as Obama screams change at every turn yet tells no one how it will be accomplished, he offers no valid legislation in his past two years to draw perspective of who the man is, spent more time living in Indonesia than serving the country, shows up to vote sessions and has so little conviction that he votes present 160 times, openly campaigns for higher taxes and more government, runs from any debates McCain wanted to have outside the mandatory ones and yet people follow him blindly because the media props him up. Yell and scream at how true Americans won't be drawn to McCain...I think you'll be surprised.

"True" Americans? Who's that?

[defenseman]

I find it interesting that a candidate such as Obama screams change at every turn yet tells no one how it will be accomplished, he offers no valid legislation in his past two years to draw perspective of who the man is, spent more time living in Indonesia than serving the country, shows up to vote sessions and has so little conviction that he votes present 160 times, openly campaigns for higher taxes and more government, runs from any debates McCain wanted to have outside the mandatory ones and yet people follow him blindly because the media props him up. Yell and scream at how true Americans won't be drawn to McCain...I think you'll be surprised.

Obama...is a lawyer...end of story.....record? He has none. It starts and ends exactly there.....dman

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Whatever gets you through the night...

So you deny that Palin's speech was full of inaccuracies and falsehoods?

With your aversion to checking facts, you are the one who is going to need something to get you through the night.

[Broncojef]

"True" Americans? Who's that?

Are you not one of them? Any tax paying citizen that loves this country my friend.

[Rohirrim]

My thoughts exactly. McCain, is NOT a public speaker. Never has been for the most part. He's a town hall guy. Second, Palin is the wild card. Don't think for a second McCain hadn't figured out he would need someone like her, same ole "empty suit" VP and he's toast, He knew this. I will say, IF her popularity grows, and I don't see any reason right now why it shouldn't, you are dead on, Obama has his work cut out for him. Got a friend of mine up at elmandorf AFB, he emailed me and said Palin is an incredible debater, just tears them up at every turn. Biden my friends is good, and I like Biden actually, but Palin may shock us all...dman

What is going to sink Palin is when they get in the debates and somebody asks, "Do you believe the teaching of creationism should be mandatory in our schools." This woman has some views that make a lot of Americans, even Christians, uncomfortable. I'm guessing the Dems are going to continuously position Palin as an extremist, which won't be too hard to do. She's not afraid to let it rip on her own.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

McCain's words were heart felt and appealing to anyone who loves this country. You'll be amazed the people that are stirred by true service to our country and by people who live life with a purpose greater than themselves.

You must have missed the post(s) where I said that I respected McCain's service and that I admired him as a fellow veteran.

[Broncojef]

So you deny that Palin's speech was full of inaccuracies and falsehoods?

With your aversion to checking facts, you are the one who is going to need something to get you through the night.

What inaccuracies and flasehoods do you speak of? I heard her entire speech and thought it was well put together and spot-on. Probably why even left leaning folks had to applaud it and say she had a great speech the other night.

[Rohirrim]

Obama...is a lawyer...end of story.....record? He has none. It starts and ends exactly there.....dman

I'm not a real Obama fan, but that's just not true. That's just a regurgitation of talking points. He's had a pretty impressive history for man of his age. I actually like the idea that the man has taught Constitutional law for ten years. I'd like to see the Oval Office move back toward following the Constitution.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What is going to sink Palin is when they get in the debates and somebody asks, "Do you believe the teaching of creationism should be mandatory in our schools." This woman has some views that make a lot of Americans, even Christians, uncomfortable. I'm guessing the Dems are going to continuously position Palin as an extremist, which won't be too hard to do. She's not afraid to let it rip on her own.

That's putting it politely. ;)

Palin is going to scare the bejesus out of everyone (read: swing voters, independents, and moderates) except the Terry Schiavo nutjobs and the far-right.

[Rohirrim]

Are you not one of them? Any tax paying citizen that loves this country my friend.

That implies there are some in this country who are not true Americans.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm not a real Obama fan, but that's just not true. That's just a regurgitation of talking points. He's had a pretty impressive history for man of his age. I actually like the idea that the man has taught Constitutional law for ten years. I'd like to see the Oval Office move back toward following the Constitution.

Amen! :thumbsup:

[Broncojef]

You must have missed the post(s) where I said that I respected McCain's service and that I admired him as a fellow veteran.

And he's going to need more than just harping on his POW experience to convince the general electorate


No I saw that post later, I was referencing your above statement that he needs more than that to sway the general electorate. Alot of folks torn in who to vote for appreciate his service (as do you) and that may be a stronger trump card than what you are willing to admit.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What inaccuracies and flasehoods do you speak of?


AP: Attacks, Praise Stretch Truth At GOP Convention


JIM KUHNHENN | September 3, 2008 11:48 PM EST | AP

ST. PAUL, Minn. — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.

Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform _ not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.
Story continues below
advertisement

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state _ by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right _ change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington _ throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

___

Associated Press Writer Jim Drinkard in Washington contributed to this report.

[Broncojef]

That implies there are some in this country who are not true Americans.

I would agree with that. There seem to be a faction of folks that generally just don't like America, they live here, fight all our policies, beliefs and traditional American values, call them anarchists or what you will they are generally non-happy people with life and IMO are not true Americans. They are not concerned with the welfare of our future and our prosperity. I had issues with Obama's wife saying she was finally proud of America when he was raised into the Democratic hierarchy, as if nothing before that moment gave her pride in the country.

[yerner]

Tell grandpa to calm down. Thats what I thought.

[defenseman]

What is going to sink Palin is when they get in the debates and somebody asks, "Do you believe the teaching of creationism should be mandatory in our schools." This woman has some views that make a lot of Americans, even Christians, uncomfortable. I'm guessing the Dems are going to continuously position Palin as an extremist, which won't be too hard to do. She's not afraid to let it rip on her own.

Naw, fact is, the stuff I've read does not say that about her. But, if you think so you are welcome to it. As I said, her debating abilities should not be underestimated, just as Biden is a formidable opponent. In addition, the bottom line is, when it occurs, you can bet your bottom dollar BOTH parties, not just one will be privvy on the subjects. the obama campaign simply cannot get pulled into a media backdoor job on Palin, that happens, even insinuated and supported with apparent bias, they will be hurt very badly. I'm guessing if the subject comes up, it'll be framed in a way that IF she responds in kind as you believe, her failure will be her own, not the debate question...dman

*Biden is savvy, so is palin. After last night, you can bet your bottom dollar that the obama campaign is not underestimating her. She knocked it out of the ballpark last night.

Heard discussion of Obama dumping Biden? IF he does that, the ballgame as they say, is over.

[Spider]

I'll take a man who has been to hell and back for me and my country, fighting in far lands against the enemy over a puppet screaming change anyday of the week.

My dad was in Nam ...... came back all ****ed up ......I believe a man has to believe in the fight he is fighting .....

[Rohirrim]

I would agree with that. There seem to be a faction of folks that generally just don't like America, they live here, fight all our policies, beliefs and traditional American values, call them anarchists or what you will they are generally non-happy people with life and IMO are not true Americans. They are not concerned with the welfare of our future and our prosperity. I had issues with Obama's wife saying she was finally proud of America when he was raised into the Democratic hierarchy, as if nothing before that moment gave her pride in the country.

McCain tonight even said there was a time when he didn't love his country and that he wasn't serving for the good of his country, but for the good of himself. I think Michelle Obama was making the same kind of point. I'll bet on the morning of 911 there weren't many of the people you describe above in this country. I know when I saw what the Bush cabal pulled on Kerry and Cleland I had second thoughts about whether their professed love of country was genuine.

[gunns]

It was a quite an acheivement. It's amazing he's alive and fought for our country to keep a dictatorship at bay. You should respect that and not complain about it.

I have immense respect for it. I remember watching those men come home and remember McCain coming off the plane to greet their families. It was a tremendously emotional time. I just don't understand the need to keep bringing it up. Is it because they believe someone in that situation develops the qualification to be President? I know it doesn't because I personally know a Vietnam POW. Nor does having a Down Syndrome baby.

[defenseman]

I'm not a real Obama fan, but that's just not true. That's just a regurgitation of talking points. He's had a pretty impressive history for man of his age. I actually like the idea that the man has taught Constitutional law for ten years. I'd like to see the Oval Office move back toward following the Constitution.

Name me one thing of worth he has done? Written memoirs "twice" and passed no significant legislation. Sorry, not enough substance for me...dman

*based on that, I just dont buy him being in it for the country. His record, or lack thereof, doesn't support it.

[Broncojef]

Heard discussion of Obama dumping Biden? IF he does that, the ballgame as they say, is over.


Funny you should mention that did you just hear Rush implicating the left is now in a tizzy wondering if Obama should have included Hillary. Palin really really shook things up last night, Can't wait for the pending debates, hope people show their true colors.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

McCain tonight even said there was a time when he didn't love his country and that he wasn't serving for the good of his country, but for the good of himself. I think Michelle Obama was making the same kind of point. I'll bet on the morning of 911 there weren't many of the people you describe above in this country. I know when I saw what the Bush cabal pulled on Kerry and Cleland I had second thoughts about whether their professed love of country was genuine.

Yep.

Who could forget this?

http://badattitudes.com/MT/Base2.jpg

[Rohirrim]

Naw, fact is, the stuff I've read does not say that about her. But, if you think so you are welcome to it. As I said, her debating abilities should not be underestimated, just as Biden is a formidable opponent. In addition, the bottom line is, when it occurs, you can bet your bottom dollar BOTH parties, not just one will be privvy on the subjects. the obama campaign simply cannot get pulled into a media backdoor job on Palin, that happens, even insinuated and supported with apparent bias, they will be hurt very badly. I'm guessing if the subject comes up, it'll be framed in a way that IF she responds in kind as you believe, her failure will be her own, not the debate question...dman

*Biden is savvy, so is palin. After last night, you can bet your bottom dollar that the obama campaign is not underestimating her. She knocked it out of the ballpark last night.

Heard discussion of Obama dumping Biden? IF he does that, the ballgame as they say, is over.

Biden is going to be very helpful in PA, OH, and MI. It's a very smart pick. The Palin pick is not to secure the 3 electoral votes of Alaska (which always votes GOP) but to secure the base and get them to donate and vote. I think the battle lines are drawn. The McCain ticket will try to run on personality, not issues. The Dems will try to argue issues and policies while tying McCain to Bush.

[ant1999e]

I have immense respect for it. I remember watching those men come home and remember McCain coming off the plane to greet their families. It was a tremendously emotional time. I just don't understand the need to keep bringing it up. Is it because they believe someone in that situation develops the qualification to be President? I know it doesn't because I personally know a Vietnam POW. Nor does having a Down Syndrome baby.

I don't think McCain being a POW means he can be president but what he went through shows his true character.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Palin really really shook things up last night

She rallied the far-right and the Terry Schiavo nutjobs, but everyone else in Amerca (i.e., independents and moderates) is probably going to be asking "what was McCain thinking?" when they see more of her true colors.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I don't think McCain being a POW means he can be president but what he went through shows his true character.

Part of his character, at any rate.

There is also a dark side to his character we should not overlook.

[Broncojef]

I have immense respect for it. I remember watching those men come home and remember McCain coming off the plane to greet their families. It was a tremendously emotional time. I just don't understand the need to keep bringing it up. Is it because they believe someone in that situation develops the qualification to be President? I know it doesn't because I personally know a Vietnam POW. Nor does having a Down Syndrome baby.

Some of you are awfully quick to write-off years of dedicated military service as having no bearing in shaping leaders. The President is the Commander-In Chief, don't you think people might keep bringing it up because it has relevance to the country and a huge portion of his job? We as a collective country are looking at resumes for our vote...I don't understand how you can say that the service, suffering and dedication to the effort he is applying for has no relevance. If you owned a restaurant would you promote some kid off the street with no past experience over a guy who has given his life to your cause and faced death over it?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Biden is going to be very helpful in PA, OH, and MI.

You are correct, sir: http://www.electoral-vote.com/

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Some of you are awfully quick to write-off years of dedicated military service as having no bearing in shaping leaders.

No.

Some of us just realize that military service isn't the only determining factor when it comes to character.

[gunns]

He'll be the leader of the Armed Forces. Military experience is a big deal.

Oh that's what qualification he got. Yeah I loved when he said we could stay in Iraq for 10 more years and then after Obama said 16 months, suddenly Malakai jumps on board, then Bush, then low and behold McCain. Now was that qualification to give him some sense about the military and the situation we are in or was it to follow an inexperienced, non military guy? Hell, 80% of the country figured out we needed to get the hell out of there before McCain did.

[Rohirrim]

Some of you are awfully quick to write-off years of dedicated military service as having no bearing in shaping leaders. The President is the Commander-In Chief, don't you think people might keep bringing it up because it has relevance to the country and a huge portion of his job? We as a collective country are looking at resumes for our vote...I don't understand how you can say that the service, suffering and dedication to the effort he is applying for has no relevance. If you owned a restaurant would you promote some kid off the street with no past experience over a guy who has given his life to your cause and faced death over it?

When Kerry ran he was smeared and his service was disrespected.

[Broncojef]

She rallied the far-right and the Terry Schiavo nutjobs, but everyone else in Amerca (i.e., independents and moderates) is probably going to be asking "what was McCain thinking?" when they see more of her true colors.

I think the left nervously hopes that, but most of what I have seen is to the contrary.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Oh that's what qualification he got. Yeah I loved when he said we could stay in Iraq for 10 more years and then after Obama said 16 months, suddenly Malakai jumps on board, then Bush, then low and behold McCain. Now was that qualification to give him some sense about the military and the situation we are in or was it to follow an inexperienced, non military guy? Hell, 80% of the country figured out we needed to get the hell out of there before McCain did.

JFK had no military service, but he almost single-handedly steered this country through one of the most dangerous military crises we've ever faced - and he did it in spite of pressure from military advisors around him who, in hindsight, had it all wrong.

[Broncojef]

No.

Some of us just realize that military service isn't the only determining factor when it comes to character.

Military service won't be the only thing he is judged on. I never said it should be. The left seems very anxious for him to drop the fact he and his family gave in great amounts to this nation..in comparison to Obama's serivce I think I see why they are nervous.

[yerner]

I think the left nervously hopes that, but most of what I have seen is to the contrary.

What have you seen? Conducting Polls?

[Rohirrim]

JFK had no military service, but he almost single-handedly steered this country through one of the most dangerous military crises we've ever faced - and he did it in spite of pressure from military advisors around him who, in hindsight, had it all wrong.

Oooops. You've got to read up on PT-109. ;D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I think the left nervously hopes that, but most of what I have seen is to the contrary.

What hard evidence have you seen that would support this?

It's probably a little too soon to bank on the RNC buzz, don't you think?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Oooops. You've got to read up on PT-109. ;D

;)

[Broncojef]

When Kerry ran he was smeared and his service was disrespected.

I appreciated his service, but when fellow members who served with him campaigned against him it resonated with some wondering what service was provided to the Country.

[Rohirrim]

I appreciated his service, but when fellow members who served with him campaigned against him it resonated with some wondering what service was provided to the Country.

And people wonder why those on the Left are angry.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Military service won't be the only thing he is judged on. I never said it should be. The left seems very anxious for him to drop the fact he and his family gave in great amounts to this nation..in comparison to Obama's serivce I think I see why they are nervous.

I'm not sure who you're talking about on the "left" who is discounting McCain's service.

Certainly not Obama or Biden.

What you are seeing, IMO, is the rejection of "I'm a POW" as an answer to every question directed at McCain.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I appreciated his service, but when fellow members who served with him campaigned against him it resonated with some wondering what service was provided to the Country.

Then you have no right to complain when McCain's opponents question his service record.

I'll keep this post in mind next time that happens.

[Broncojef]

What hard evidence have you seen that would support this?

It's probably a little too soon to bank on the RNC buzz, don't you think?

LOL...gut feeling. After Palin was introduced what do you really think the Democratic supporters of Obama's campaign said in private to one another? I mean really what were they saying? I'd bet anything it was sh*t we should have picked Hillary. No doubt I enjoyed the RNC and am looking forward to the pending debates. I don't think Obama has alot of substance but represents an ideology much further from Bush and thats enough for most people who have suffered under this administration.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I appreciated his service, but when fellow members who served with him campaigned against him it resonated with some wondering what service was provided to the Country.

I suppose it doesn't matter to you that claims of the swift boat vets were discredited?

[gunns]

I would agree with that. There seem to be a faction of folks that generally just don't like America, they live here, fight all our policies, beliefs and traditional American values, call them anarchists or what you will they are generally non-happy people with life and IMO are not true Americans. They are not concerned with the welfare of our future and our prosperity. I had issues with Obama's wife saying she was finally proud of America when he was raised into the Democratic hierarchy, as if nothing before that moment gave her pride in the country.

It wasn't about him being raised into the Democratic hierarchy, it was that the American public had woken up and realized we are headed in the wrong direction with the Republicans. There are about 80% of the country that doesn't like the direction America is going. They are the true Americans because they don't merely accept what is happening. And then there are those that love the status quo and are still stereotyping. Yet what they stereotype could be applied to what they support and they are too blind to see it. I think they are true Americans, just too stupid to see that what they support has diminished our policies, beliefs and traditional American values.

[Broncojef]

Then you have no right to complain when McCain's opponents question his service record.

I'll keep this post in mind next time that happens.

NO ONE is questioning his service record, none, it's clear cut he's an American hero. The point in contention was some on this board were wondering why they have to hear about it so often. The point is he's applying for the highest job in the land and has unique qualifications that are relevant and that most Americans appreciate.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LOL...gut feeling.

That's what I thought.



After Palin was introduced what do you really think the Democratic supporters of Obama's campaign said in private to one another?

#1 "What was McCain thinking?"

#2 "Would the republicans be so careless and irresponsible to as to place someone so radical and so underqualified a heartbeat away from the presidnecy - especially in these difficult times?"

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

NO ONE is questioning his service record, none, it's clear cut he's an American hero. The point in contention was some on this board were wondering why they have to hear about it so often. The point is he's applying for the highest job in the land and has unique qualifications that are relevant and that most Americans appreciate.

I don't think hearing about it often is a problem - the problem is using it to distract our attention from other important issues.

[gunns]

I appreciated his service, but when fellow members who served with him campaigned against him it resonated with some wondering what service was provided to the Country.

You obviously haven't seen the vets, some that served with McCain, that have spoke out against him. Make you wonder?

[Broncojef]

It wasn't about him being raised into the Democratic hierarchy, it was that the American public had woken up and realized we are headed in the wrong direction with the Republicans. There are about 80% of the country that doesn't like the direction America is going. They are the true Americans because they don't merely accept what is happening. And then there are those that love the status quo and are still stereotyping. Yet what they stereotype could be applied to what they support and they are too blind to see it. I think they are true Americans, just too stupid to see that what they support has diminished our policies, beliefs and traditional American values.

What plan has Obama layed out and what has he done that elevates his droning chant of chage to have any meaning in your life? Change is great, I agree we need it...but what change is he offering? Following a supposed leader with no past performance record just because he is the furthest thing from what we have now doesn't equate to what we need. The Broncos need new linebackers IMO, hiring a highschool kid who owns a jersey just for the sake of change doesn't make it the right move.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

LOL...gut feeling. After Palin was introduced what do you really think the Democratic supporters of Obama's campaign said in private to one another? I mean really what were they saying? I'd bet anything it was sh*t we should have picked Hillary. No doubt I enjoyed the RNC and am looking forward to the pending debates. I don't think Obama has alot of substance but represents an ideology much further from Bush and thats enough for most people who have suffered under this administration.

Actually, i think Palin will prove to be quite a polarizing figure, and i think the media's coverage, the initial focus groups, and just general conversations I have with people reflect that. Her base will love her. Before she even stepped foot on the podium, she hit a home run with her base. As long as she didnt stutter and as long as she delivered the speech written for her well, people would support her because 1) she represents something different in being a woman and 2) the media killed her.

But this woman is a STRICT right wing conservative. Her thoughts on creationism certainly do not mesh with the general electorate. Shes pro life, when most women arent. Anti-gay...the list goes on. Plus, I thought her speech last night was pretty mean spirited (especially attacking community organizers...which i think was somewhat racially charged). I think people will love her and people will hate her. Not sure how thats gonna play out. The next two months will be interesting.

I'm really sick and tired of the "obama never explains how he's gonna change things" argument. Take an hour and poke around his website if you want to read his policies. They are in pretty good detail there.

On the flip side of that, McCain and Palin have both said they would like to fight the status quo and change washington. yet all of their policies support the status quo. This is inarguable. They are conservative republicans that support the neocon agenda. And I expect (or hope) the democrats take direct lines from mccain's speech and attack him with policy questions....and call him a liar.

[Broncojef]

You obviously haven't seen the vets, some that served with McCain, that have spoke out against him. Make you wonder?

I served 10 years the best I could and there were many who probably didn't like me either. None that would campaign against me or take out ads. If a group similar to the ones against Kerry raised a voice I would certainly listen. Seems many of the good men he served with were there supporting him at the convention.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

What plan has Obama layed out and what has he done that elevates his droning chant of chage to have any meaning in your life? Change is great, I agree we need it...but what change is he offering? Following a supposed leader with no past performance record just because he is the furthest thing from what we have now doesn't equate to what we need. The Broncos need new linebackers IMO, hiring a highschool kid who owns a jersey just for the sake of change doesn't make it the right move.

Again, read his website. But a few things off the top of my head:

-A new tax code that will benefit the middle class, cancelling the bush tax cuts.
-Changing the culture of thinking when it comes to foriegn policy
-Promoting alternative energy as the new dot.com (and i dont care what mccain says, he's just the oil company's bitch right now) Obama does have a nice, comprehensive energy plan.
- Making universal healthcare a priority (McCain really has no answer to this ... his is the same bull****)
- a new education plan


He really has a lot of great ideas if he actually sticks to them...which im not sure that he will. But he's honestly the candidate of change if there is one in this race. McCain speaks of change, but really offers the same policies the bush admin does. After all, 90 percent of the time he agreed with him.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I served 10 years the best I could and there were many who probably didn't like me either. None that would campaign against me or take out ads. If a group similar to the ones against Kerry raised a voice I would certainly listen. Seems many of the good men he served with were there supporting him at the convention.

That was a dirty smear campaign and are among the same that tries to push Obama as a muslim terrorist. C'mon, youre better than that.

[Drek]

I think the left nervously hopes that, but most of what I have seen is to the contrary.

I'd say the left, and a good deal more than just that, of this country is pretty damn scared.

But that is of a right wing evangelical even further wrapped in her own self righteousness than Bush getting into the office because an old guy picked her for VP before he passed on.

She's basically the antithesis of everything our Constitution is supposed to protect. Prayer and religious doctorine in schools, federal legislation instead of state rights, cronyism throughout the political structure, executive privilege obfuscating and obscuring what exactly the governing body is doing.

I'm not afraid Palin will win the election for McCain, the polls have swung hugely in Obama's favor since her selection and I personally believe there is a large pool of "unlikely voters" who will pour out this year to take back their political system. But whereas the small chance McCain wins had me thinking "well, its better than four years of Hillary or Romney" I'll instead be deathly afraid that he might die before getting voted out of office and we'll have someone running the country who thinks Iraq is a mission from God.

Newsflash! Other people live in the holy land now. Why not quit with the Crusades.

[Broncojef]

Actually, i think Palin will prove to be quite a polarizing figure, and i think the media's coverage, the initial focus groups, and just general conversations I have with people reflect that. Her base will love her. Before she even stepped foot on the podium, she hit a home run with her base. As long as she didnt stutter and as long as she delivered the speech written for her well, people would support her because 1) she represents something different in being a woman and 2) the media killed her.

But this woman is a STRICT right wing conservative. Her thoughts on creationism certainly do not mesh with the general electorate. Shes pro life, when most women arent. Anti-gay...the list goes on. Plus, I thought her speech last night was pretty mean spirited (especially attacking community organizers...which i think was somewhat racially charged). I think people will love her and people will hate her. Not sure how thats gonna play out. The next two months will be interesting.

I'm really sick and tired of the "obama never explains how he's gonna change things" argument. Take an hour and poke around his website if you want to read his policies. They are in pretty good detail there.

On the flip side of that, McCain and Palin have both said they would like to fight the status quo and change washington. yet all of their policies support the status quo. This is inarguable. They are conservative republicans that support the neocon agenda. And I expect (or hope) the democrats take direct lines from mccain's speech and attack him with policy questions....and call him a liar.

To be honest Palin is the one person in the race that intrigues me...not the hot chick factor per se but I could have listened to her for hours last night. I think she connects with real people outside Washington and will be the difference in this race. There are NO conservative Republicans in this race...McCain's policies are a bit too Democratic for me but he's the closest thing close to the center so he has my vote. Sorry mate I could talk all night about this but 4AM comes early and I'm off to bed. Good talking to you all tonight. Whoever wins I hope America is transformed and prosperity reaches you all and the Broncos crush the Raiders. GO BRONCOS!!!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'd say the left, and a good deal more than just that, of this country is pretty damn scared.

But that is of a right wing evangelical even further wrapped in her own self righteousness than Bush getting into the office because an old guy picked her for VP before he passed on.

She's basically the antithesis of everything our Constitution is supposed to protect. Prayer and religious doctorine in schools, federal legislation instead of state rights, cronyism throughout the political structure, executive privilege obfuscating and obscuring what exactly the governing body is doing.

I'm not afraid Palin will win the election for McCain, the polls have swung hugely in Obama's favor since her selection and I personally believe there is a large pool of "unlikely voters" who will pour out this year to take back their political system. But whereas the small chance McCain wins had me thinking "well, its better than four years of Hillary or Romney" I'll instead be deathly afraid that he might die before getting voted out of office and we'll have someone running the country who thinks Iraq is a mission from God.

Newsflash! Other people live in the holy land now. Why not quit with the Crusades.

Ding ding ding! :thumbs:

[Broncojef]

That was a dirty smear campaign and are among the same that tries to push Obama as a muslim terrorist. C'mon, youre better than that.

Sorry man I was overseas most of that election and probably didn't see it in perspective. I listen to any point of view but must admit I am way further right wing than most on this board. I just don't have enough info on the whole Kerry thing. I do appreciate his service.

[Drek]

To be honest Palin is the one person in the race that intrigues me...not the hot chick factor per se but I could have listened to her for hours last night. I think she connects with real people outside Washington and will be the difference in this race. There are NO conservative Republicans in this race...McCain's policies are a bit too Democratic for me but he's the closest thing close to the center so he has my vote. Sorry mate I could talk all night about this but 4AM comes early and I'm off to bed. Good talking to you all tonight. Whoever wins I hope America is transformed and prosperity reaches you all and the Broncos crush the Raiders. GO BRONCOS!!!


Broncojef's view of the political spectrum:

far left ------------------------------------------center----far right

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

There are NO conservative Republicans in this race...

???

Are you kidding me?

Palin makes Dick Cheney look like Dennis Kucinnich.

[Broncojef]

Broncojef's view of the political spectrum:

far left ------------------------------------------center----far right

I make no apologies for where I stand. I'm way more liberal than most in my family yet am reminded of who I really am when I see some of the posts you guys make. I'm really off to bed now, thanks for letting me know where I stand Drek...Late.

[ScottXray]

NO ONE is questioning his service record, none, it's clear cut he's an American hero. The point in contention was some on this board were wondering why they have to hear about it so often. The point is he's applying for the highest job in the land and has unique qualifications that are relevant and that most Americans appreciate.

Is he going to form a panel of the Other vets that went through the same things he did and put all matters to a vote ...majority wins? After all they also have the same unique qualifications.

Other than his military record , he has 26 years in congress and the Senate.
And his military record, before that 5 1/2 year period in Hanoi, was not exemplary at all, in fact poor. Without his father and grandfather, he never would have gone to annapolis or graduated , or received his wings.

I will admit he served well and bravely in Vietnam. SO DID A LOT OF PEOPLE.
John Kerry for one.

His congressional record is spotty, and he now says he wouldn't vote for bills that he wrote or co-sponsored within the last few years. He has a poor record (at BEST) of supporting the veterans he constantly mentions, yet claims to support them over and over again. He DOES vote for every arms and weapon program and for numerous military actions, yet never votes to give the men and women in the armed services a break , or a raise. He first voted against the recently passed GI bill, and then just wasn't present and did not vote when it was passed (by 75 Yes voting Senators).

Which brings us to the attack on Obamas present votes, last night.
John McCain is the most ABSENT senator in the US Senate over the last year.
Present beats "Sorry...I'm running for President. No time to do my JOB right now. " so much so, that his own State (Arizona), is now in play as a possible loss. While I doubt that will happen, it is going to be closer than many expect , and he will fail to win 55% of the vote there.


John Mccain is running on a record that he hasn't lived up to for at least 6 years. It is old news.

[gunns]

What plan has Obama layed out and what has he done that elevates his droning chant of chage to have any meaning in your life? Change is great, I agree we need it...but what change is he offering? Following a supposed leader with no past performance record just because he is the furthest thing from what we have now doesn't equate to what we need. The Broncos need new linebackers IMO, hiring a highschool kid who owns a jersey just for the sake of change doesn't make it the right move.

The shortest amount of time in Iraq is what he's offered. Bring my son home from one of the stupidest invasions of a country this country has seen. Either bring him home or send him to Afghanistan where he would truly be fighting for his country. The fact he wants to make the payment of taxes a little more equitable so that the 3 lowest tax brackets aren't paying 60% of the taxes. I don't know if it will happen but I do know what's happened the past 8 years and McCain isn't far from that and that scares me more than the unknown.

Yeah I'll take the guy who's offering a change, offering anything different from what we've had. They told Clinton the same thing, he had no experience (and he was a Governor?), but life was a hell of a lot better than the past 8 years. Then we elect the "experienced" Governor from Texas and gave him a Republican legislature and there goes the deficit, offering our best and brightest up for the killing for his own agenda, forgot about his responsibility to this country and our own people. Tell me what McCain is offering to do differently because I haven't heard a damn thing.

[elsid13]

JFK had no military service, but he almost single-handedly steered this country through one of the most dangerous military crises we've ever faced - and he did it in spite of pressure from military advisors around him who, in hindsight, had it all wrong.

PT109???

[tnedator]

So you deny that Palin's speech was full of inaccuracies and falsehoods?


Like Obama's speech (McCain wouldn't even follow OBL into his own cave), politicians use literary license in their speeches. So, statements like saying BHO has never penned any legislation, isn't accurate, as he has even had two bills past in senate (something like 98.5% of his Senate bills failed).

So, I don't deny their were 'some' innacuracies in Palin's speech, as there were in Obama's speech and probably every other speech given in both the RNC and DNC. However, I would completely disagree with your statement that her speech was "full of inaccuracies and falsehoods."


With your aversion to checking facts, you are the one who is going to need something to get you through the night.

I'm confident than anyone reading our exchanges will see me as willing to look at both sides of the debate, where you simply parrot what the Obama camp says. Great job being one of BHO's sheep, LABS... :thumbsup: