GOP Convention Day 1 Apparently Cancelled

[frerottenextelway]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5976307.html

ST. PAUL, MINN. — The Republican National Convention's entire Monday night program, including an address by President Bush, apparently will be canceled as national attention focuses on Hurricane Gustav, House Minority Leader John Boehner said today.

"It is doubtful that there will be any kind of program tomorrow night" when the four-day convention was scheduled to commence, he told reporters. "The convention is going to be handled on a day-to-day basis."

[Spider]

They have no choice , but i want to see how the republicans respond this go around

[spdirty]

It appears that Jindall and Nagin have their shlt together, so hopefully they do. More important work needs to be done than 4 nights of speeches.

[ghwk]

It appears that Jindall and Nagin have their shlt together, so hopefully they do. More important work needs to be done than 4 nights of speeches.

Agreed, my pet goat will have to wait.:D

[tnedator]

They have no choice , but i want to see how the republicans respond this go around

Well, since it's the states responsibility to prepare for and deal with natural disasters, hopefully the current republican governor won't screw the pooch like the Dem Blanco did.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Agreed, my pet goat will have to wait.:D

:D

McCain orders convention curtailed for Gustav

By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent 14 minutes ago

ST. PAUL, Minn. - John McCain tore up the script for his Republican National Convention on Sunday, ordering the cancellation of all but essential opening-day activities as Hurricane Gustav churned toward New Orleans.

"This is a time when we have to do away with our party politics and we have to act as Americans," he said as fellow Republicans converged on their convention city to nominate him for the White House.

President Bush and Vice President Cheney scrapped plans to address the convention on Monday, and McCain's campaign chartered a jet to fly delegates back to their hurricane-threatened states along the Gulf Coast. Campaign manager Rick Davis said the first-night program was being cut from seven hours to two and one half.

The hasty reordering of an event months in the making underscored not only the risk posed by Gustav, but also an intense desire by McCain and Republicans to avoid the political damage that Bush suffered from his widely criticized response to Hurricane Katrina three years ago.

The formal business of the convention includes nominating McCain for president and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate on Wednesday. McCain's acceptance speech, set for prime time on Thursday evening, is among the most critical events of the campaign for his chances of winning the White House.

McCain said he was looking forward to attending the convention but did not say when he would arrive. He spoke via satellite from St. Louis after he and Palin received a briefing on hurricane preparations in Jackson, Miss.

Campaign manager Davis told reporters inside the convention hall that the opening program on Monday would be "business only and will refrain from political rhetoric."

To help those in need, he said, "We are working with the delegations, financial people, finance committees, many other concerned individuals to do what we can to raise money for various charities that operate in the Gulf Coast region."

As for the convention schedule, he added that further adjustments would be made on a day-to-day basis.

McCain said of his briefing in Mississippi: "I'm happy to report to you that the coordination and the work that's being done at all levels appears to be excellent." He cited remaining challenges in communications and search and rescue operations, but emphasized that the response seemed to be going more smoothly than the one three years ago.

"I have every expectation that we will not see the mistakes of Katrina repeated," he said.

The Bush administration's handling of that storm contributed to a plunge in the president's approval ratings that helped the Democrats win control of Congress in 2006.

The uncertainty contrasted with a state of readiness inside the Xcel Center, a hockey arena transformed into a made-for-televison red-carpeted convention hall. Thousands of red, white and blue balloons nestled in netting high above the floor — to be released during final-night festivities if the Republicans decide to go ahead with them.

Outside, police took nine people into custody for crossing a security barrier in an anti-war march. The nine, including two women in their 70s, were charged with trespassing, according to Doug Holtz, a St. Paul police commander.

Emphasizing their concern about the hurricane, McCain and his newly named running mate traveled to Mississippi for a tour of the state's emergency management center.

"I pledge that tomorrow night, and if necessary throughout our convention, we will act as Americans, not as Republicans," McCain told reporters moments later.

The events temporarily overshadowed a more traditionally political pre-convention debate over McCain's decision to name Palin to his ticket. She was mayor of small-town Wasilla, Alaska, for six years before she became governor in DecemDber 2006.

Responding to a question after his hurricane-related remarks, McCain made a ringing defense of Palin, who Democrats argue has less experience than their presidential candidate, Barack Obama.

"I thin Sen. Obama, if they want to do down that route, in all candor, she has far, far more experience than Sen. Obama does," McCain said.

He cited Palin's stint as governor of a "state that produces 20 percent of America's energy" as well as her previous membership in the PTA and her time spent on the city council and in the mayor's office in Wasilla,a town of fewer than 7,000 people outside Anchorage.

By contrast, he said Obama "was a community organizer when she was in elected office. He was in the state Senate and voted 130 times present. He never took on his party on anything. She took on a party and the old bulls and the old boy network and she succeeded."

Palin has frequently clashed with fellow Republicans in her state, and won office after denying an incumbent GOP governor renomination to a new term in office.

But Democratic Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut said McCain's selection was merely designed to appease the hard-right conservatives in the Republican Party. "His knees buckled" when it came time to picking a running mate, Dodd said of McCain in an appearance on CNN.

McCain conferred by phone with Govs. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Bob Riley of Alabama and Charlie Crist of Florida during the day.

Crist, with a prominent speaking role at the convention, said he was staying in his home state to tend to hurricane business, and the others were staying home as well.

Democrats, too, decided to tone down their convention-week efforts.

Party spokesman Brad Woodhouse said the Democrats had canceled a "More of the Same" rally that had been slated for Monday.

Obama said he was ready to encourage his supporters to assist any victims of the hurricane.

"I think we can activate an e-mail list of a couple of million people who want to give back," he said.

Roger Villere Jr., Louisiana Republican Party chairman, said the chartered jet would fly delegates back to their home states and also fly back to Minnesota with family members who want to evacuate the Gulf Coast area.

"We got a large plane because we needed it. We'll take any delegate that would like to go back," Villere said.

"The McCain campaign has assured me this is the first priority," he said referring to the hurricane.

With millions of Gulf Coast residents fleeing the approaching storm, Chadwick Melder, a delegate from Baton Rouge, said he was taking advantage of an offer from the campaign to fly his family out of harm's way.

"I'm trying to get my family out of there and stay here for the week," said Melder, although he added, "I have responsibilities here as well."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_convention_rdp

[Spider]

Well, since it's the states responsibility to prepare for and deal with natural disasters, hopefully the current republican governor won't screw the pooch like the Dem Blanco did.
where was this states attitude on Schivo case ?
but anyhoo , it was the states responsibility to get people to safety , but fed dropped the ball on getting help in

[tnedator]

where was this states attitude on Schivo case ?
but anyhoo , it was the states responsibility to get people to safety , but fed dropped the ball on getting help in

I guess you forgot the part where Blanco couldn't make up her mind whether or not she needed help. Kept hesitating and froze like a deer in the headlights.

However, I agree that Fema screwed the pooch and didn't get supplies in fast enough, but it still was the states job to go in and rescue people, it was Fema's job to help them with supplies and coordination.

[Spider]

I guess you forgot the part where Blanco couldn't make up her mind whether or not she needed help. Kept hesitating and froze like a deer in the headlights.

However, I agree that Fema screwed the pooch and didn't get supplies in fast enough, but it still was the states job to go in and rescue people, it was Fema's job to help them with supplies and coordination. ........ well you forgot the part where Bush cut the funding to the levies .........;D

[TheDave]

regardless, from a PR perspective they didn't have a choice.

[tnedator]

........ well you forgot the part where Bush cut the funding to the levies .........;D

Gimme a break. They have been talking about reinforcing those levies for decades and keep instead using federal funds for other purposes in LA. You and I BOTH know that even if Bush had bullied congress into passing a "reinforce the NOLA levies" bill and forced LA to use the money to rebuild the levies, then it still wouldn't have helped NOLA, because of how long it takes to complete a project of that magnitude.

I have no problem with finding fault where it lies, but make **** up just doesn't fly.

[cutthemdown]

regardless, from a PR perspective they didn't have a choice.

what cracks me up is how Bush gets blamed for not spending money to fix the levies. Hell Clinton had a surplus but you didn't see him say let's spend it on the NO levies. Things like this don't become an issue until something like Katrina happens.

I'm more interested in seeing if the govt does a better job this time rather then pointing fingers like most people like to do. All you can do is learn from events that happen and try to plan better.

IMO just having the pumps above ground and a good evacuation of low areas will be enough to not repeat Katrina.

[Spider]

Gimme a break. They have been talking about reinforcing those levies for decades and keep instead using federal funds for other purposes in LA. You and I BOTH know that even if Bush had bullied congress into passing a "reinforce the NOLA levies" bill and forced LA to use the money to rebuild the levies, then it still wouldn't have helped NOLA, because of how long it takes to complete a project of that magnitude.

I have no problem with finding fault where it lies, but make **** up just doesn't fly.

Make **** up ? you goof read and weep ....... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090102261.html
I suggest reading up on issues before commenting on making **** up

[Spider]

:rofl: all of the Bush suckers need to read that

[tnedator]

Make **** up ? you goof read and weep ....... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090102261.html
I suggest reading up on issues before commenting on making **** up

Thanks for providing the link which backs up EXACTLY what I said:

Even with full funding in recent years, none of the flood-control projects would have been completed in time to prevent the swamping of the city, as Democrats yesterday acknowledged.

The Corps of Engineers, which worked closely with White House officials on its response, went to the defense of the administration, denying that additional money would have made a difference this week because the defenses of New Orleans were designed to withstand a Category 3 storm, not a Category 4 hurricane such as Katrina. "It was not a funding issue," said Carol Sanders, the chief spokeswoman for the corps. "It's an issue of the design capabilities of these projects."

As I said, for decades people have been talking about the fact that if a major hurricane hit NOLA, it would be screwed. They have been talking about the fact the levy system was inadequate for decades, since the '60s or '70s, and started focusing in ernest on working to improve them starting in the late '90s. It was a long term project, and even the 'Democrats' agreed that the levee failures were not a result of cuts in funding to the corp of engineers.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I guess you forgot the part where Blanco couldn't make up her mind whether or not she needed help. Kept hesitating and froze like a deer in the headlights.

:bs:

There you go slinging the right-wing disinfo again. tsk tsk

Blanco’s letter requesting Emergency aid under the Stafford Act, August 27th

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=4843

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/sr109-322/ch11.pdf

http://www.newshounds.us/2005/09/06/desperate_to_take_heat_off_bush_oreilly_lies_and_b lames_the_poor.php



The Aug. 26 request is the more important request date and is also confirmed by Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré in this DOD Special Briefing. The letter is a more specific request as to what exactly is needed:

http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html


President Bush legally puts the ball in Chertoff and Howard’s court, August 27th

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.htm

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

[Spider]

Thanks for providing the link which backs up EXACTLY what I said:





As I said, for decades people have been talking about the fact that if a major hurricane hit NOLA, it would be screwed. They have been talking about the fact the levy system was inadequate for decades, since the '60s or '70s, and started focusing in ernest on working to improve them starting in the late '90s. It was a long term project, and even the 'Democrats' agreed that the levee failures were not a result of cuts in funding to the corp of engineers.

Did you read the entire thing Page 2 ? No the swamping wouldnt have been prevented , but it wouldnt have been as bad either , relief efforts etc ..... well you probably didnt read page 2 so here ....
Michael Parker, who was forced by Bush to resign as assistant secretary of the Army for civil works after accusing the White House of shortchanging the Corps of Engineers, said the culprit is not the president but government-wide resistance to investing long-term in projects such as flood control.

"You have watched during a period of 72 hours a modern city of New Orleans [become] a Third World country, and it is all because of the disintegration of infrastructure," Parker said. "Everybody is to blame -- it transcends administrations. It transcends party."


Michael Parker was forced by Bush to resign as assistant secretary of the Army for civil works.
Michael Parker was forced by Bush to resign as assistant secretary of the Army for civil works.
Hurricane Katrina's Aftermath in the Gulf Coast

Most Blogged About Articles
On washingtonpost.com | On the web

Parker, a former Republican congressman from Mississippi, said the biggest institutional obstacle to protecting levees and bridges and waterways is the Office of Management and Budget, which has sought to rein in the Corps of Engineers' budget under Bush and predecessors. Critics say the corps sometimes works with lawmakers to secure congressional spending authority on wasteful programs.

Local and federal officials have long warned that funding shortages in the New Orleans area would have consequences. They sounded the alarm as recently as last summer when they complained that federal budget cuts had stopped major work on New Orleans east bank hurricane levees for the first time in 37 years. Al Naomi, the senior project manager for the Army Corps of Engineers, reported at the time that he was getting only half as much money as he needed and that much of the funding was being used to pay contractors for past work.

"When levees are below grade, as ours are in many spots right now, they're more vulnerable to waves pouring over them and degrading them," Naomi told the Times-Picayune of New Orleans. Walter Maestri, the emergency management chief in Jefferson Parish (county), at the time linked the funding shortfall to the cost of the Iraq war. "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay," he told the newspaper. Maestri added, "For us, this levee is part and parcel of homeland security because it helps protect us 365 days a year."

One project that has drawn attention in recent days is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, commonly called SELA, which began a decade ago to improve flood protection in a network of improved drainage canals and pump stations in Orleans and Jefferson parishes.

The project, which is supposed to cost $744 million overall, has been shortchanged recently, according to advocates. The corps said it needed $62.5 million next fiscal year; Bush proposed $10.5 million.

This provoked howls of protest from the Louisiana congressional delegation. "All of us said, 'Look, build it or you're going to have all of Jefferson Parish under water,' " recalled former senator John Breaux, a Democrat who is a Bush ally. "And they didn't, and now all of Jefferson Parish is under water."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

TIMELINE


Friday, 26 August 2005, Governor of Louisiana declares state of emergency (http://gov.louisiana.gov/2005%20%20proclamations/48pro2005-Emergency-HurricaneKatrina.pdf)
Saturday morning, 27 August 2005, Governor of Louisiana asks President Bush to declare a state of emergency and requests Federal Assistance (http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf)“to save lives and property”. Note, the letter was published on 27 August 2005 on Lexis Nexis but was dated 28 August 2005. Bush received the letter on Saturday and responded on the same day by declaring a State of Emergency (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html). Note, per the NRP, William Lokey was designated as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in Louisiana.
Sunday, 28 August 2005, Mayor of New Orleans orders Mandatory Evacuation (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/?section=cnn_topstories).
(Note: In Governor Blanco’s request on the 27th, there is a specific request for help with evacuation and a specific request for help to “save lives and protect property”. )


Monday, 29 August 2005, FEMA Director Brown (http://wid.ap.org/documents/dhskatrina.pdf)requests DHS Secretary Chertoff’s help in getting 1000 DHS employees ready to deploy to the disaster within 48 hours.


Under the National Response Plane (see p. 93, Figure 11), once the President declares a State of Emergency the Department of Homeland Security is supposed to implement the Plan. Initially, DHS is supposed to deploy an Emergency Response Team to the State to provide expertise in assessing needs and determining appropriate courses of action. Moreover, on p. 52 of the NRP the President may act proactively under the Stafford Act.


Folks, these are not OPINIONS, these are cold, objective facts. However, MSNBC and other members of the Main Stream Media, are confused about what is a fact and what is opinion.


http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2005/09/07/sorting-out-opinion-from-facts-on-katrina/

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The flooding in New Orleans was foretold over and over and over again

'Drowning New Orleans'
October, 2001
http://sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=000... (http://sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000)

'Keeping Its Head Above Water'
New Orleans Faces Doomsday Scenario
December 1, 2001
http://www.hurricane.lsu.edu/_in_the_news/houston.htm

'Washing Away'
2002
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/part1.html

'City in a Bowl'
September 20, 2002
http://www.pbs.org/now/printable/transcript_neworleans_... (http://www.pbs.org/now/printable/transcript_neworleans_print.html)

'Disaster in the Making'
September 22, 2004
http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2004-09-22/cover.html

'A Way Out' ( Despite advances, the subject of evacuation has been a widely overlooked issue within the transportation field.)
April, 2004
http://hurricane.lsu.edu/_in_the_news/tmemag0404.htm

'A Disaster Waiting to Happen'
September 28, 2004
http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2004-09-28/cov... (http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2004-09-28/cover_story.html)

'Gone With the Water'
October, 2004
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5 /

What if Hurricane Ivan Had Not Missed New Orleans?
Novermber, 2004
http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/nov04/nov04c.html

[tnedator]

:bs:

There you go slinging the right-wing disinfo again. tsk tsk



The Aug. 26 request is the more important request date and is also confirmed by Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré in this DOD Special Briefing. The letter is a more specific request as to what exactly is needed:

http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html

So, how would the response have been better after the mayor and governor screwed the pooch? It's amazing that even though the mayor and governor did nothing wrong, it was all a failure of national response, that they are actually doing more than just sitting on their hands in their below sea level city and saying, "ahhh shucks, it will all be ok"

It takes time to mount a large scale rescue operation when a city like NOLA is dessimated and there is a complete failure by state and local government, not to mention other states were effected, roads impassible, etc.

As I said, FEMA didn't do a very good job of getting supplies in as soon as possible, but the Governor and Mayor completely failed in their roles. Do you deny this fact?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Bush administration crippled FEMA

Ex-officials say weakened FEMA botched response (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509030220sep03,1,5525666.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true)

By Frank James and Andrew Martin
Washington Bureau
Published September 3, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Government disaster officials had an action plan if a major hurricane hit New Orleans. They simply didn't execute it when Hurricane Katrina struck.

Thirteen months before Katrina hit New Orleans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill that Ronald Castleman, then the regional director for the Federal Emergency Management Agency, called "a very good exercise."

More than a million residents were "evacuated" in the table-top scenario as 120 m.p.h. winds and 20 inches of rain caused widespread flooding that supposedly trapped 300,000 people in the city.

"It was very much an eye-opener," said Castleman, a Republican appointee of President Bush who left FEMA in December for the private sector. "A number of things were identified that we had to deal with, not all of them were solved."



James Lee Witt to the Rescue - Again. (http://www.pensitoreview.com/2005/09/05/james-lee-witt-to-the-rescue-again)

I‘ve talked to emergency managers across this country, and firefighters across this country, and they told me … “You know what,” they said, “what <the bush="" administration="" has=""> done to FEMA is like driving heart in emergency management in this country.” (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/)</the>

<you> cannot expect a federal agency, like FEMA, to be able to fulfill its role and its responsibility to the American people <when> you take away the resources and … a lot of the funding. <you> have to work every day, every month, every week, to be able to make sure you partner with state and local emergency management, firefighters, to be able to respond together.

And if you don‘t plan, prepare, and exercise together, then you - it‘s difficult to respond together.

The mitigation prevention program in FEMA was a strong program. When we reorganized FEMA, we put in a division for mitigation prevention, working with state and local government, to minimize risk. It is almost null and void now…</you></when></you> (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/)


FEMA contracted Innovative Emergency Management to (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/)'lead the development of a catastrophic hurricane disaster plan for Southeast Louisiana and the City of New Orleans'. (http://www.ieminc.com/Whats_New/Press_Releases/pressrelease060304_Catastrophic.htm)

In July, 2004, they held the 'Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane Planning Workshop' it went like this;

Driven by a predetermined scenario, entitled Hurricane Pam, the participants developed 15 functional plans over the course of the week, including: pre-landfall activities; unwatering of levee enclosed areas; hazardous materials; billeting of response personnel; distribution of power, water, and ice; transport from water to shelter; volunteer and donations management; external affairs; access control and re-entry; debris; schools; search and rescue; sheltering; temporary housing; and temporary medical care.

The scenario involved a slow-moving Category 3 storm making landfall near Grand Isle in the early morning. In the scenario, the storm, sustaining winds of 120 mph at landfall, spawned tornados, destroyed over 75% of the structures in its path, and left the majority of New Orleans under 15–20 feet of water. The workshop was sponsored by FEMA and LOHSEP, with a weather scenario designed by the National Weather Service and damage and consequences developed by IEM, Inc. of Baton Rouge. IEM, Inc. also facilitated the workshop sessions.

From November 29–December 3, over 90 participants met in New Orleans to continue planning for three topics: sheltering, temporary housing, and temporary medical care. These three topics were chosen by the workshop’s Unified Command as areas that needed continued group planning.

The outcome of these workshops is a series of functional plans that may be implemented immediately. Along with these plans, resource shortfalls were identified early, saving valuable time in the event an actual response is warranted. It is because of the dedication of every workshop participant that Louisiana is much better prepared for a catastrophic hurricane.

More here. (http://www.leninology.blogspot.com/2005/09/politics-of-weather-3-shyness-of.html)

A clear case of 'privatization' as failure has rarely been seen.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So, how would the response have been better after the mayor and governor screwed the pooch? It's amazing that even though the mayor and governor did nothing wrong, it was all a failure of national response, that they are actually doing more than just sitting on their hands in their below sea level city and saying, "ahhh shucks, it will all be ok"

It takes time to mount a large scale rescue operation when a city like NOLA is dessimated and there is a complete failure by state and local government, not to mention other states were effected, roads impassible, etc.

As I said, FEMA didn't do a very good job of getting supplies in as soon as possible, but the Governor and Mayor completely failed in their roles. Do you deny this fact?

What part of "primary responsibility" don't you get? ???

President Bush legally puts the ball in Chertoff and Howard’s court, August 27th

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...20050827-1.htm

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

[tnedator]

The flooding in New Orleans was foretold over and over and over again

'Drowning New Orleans'
October, 2001
http://sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=000... (http://sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000)

'Keeping Its Head Above Water'
New Orleans Faces Doomsday Scenario
December 1, 2001
http://www.hurricane.lsu.edu/_in_the_news/houston.htm

'Washing Away'
2002
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/part1.html

'City in a Bowl'
September 20, 2002
http://www.pbs.org/now/printable/transcript_neworleans_... (http://www.pbs.org/now/printable/transcript_neworleans_print.html)

'Disaster in the Making'
September 22, 2004
http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2004-09-22/cover.html

'A Way Out' ( Despite advances, the subject of evacuation has been a widely overlooked issue within the transportation field.)
April, 2004
http://hurricane.lsu.edu/_in_the_news/tmemag0404.htm

'A Disaster Waiting to Happen'
September 28, 2004
http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2004-09-28/cov... (http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2004-09-28/cover_story.html)

'Gone With the Water'
October, 2004
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5 /

What if Hurricane Ivan Had Not Missed New Orleans?
Novermber, 2004
http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/nov04/nov04c.html

I'm well aware it was foretold over and over. I stated that already. They have been talking about the danger for a LONG time, long before Bush took office.

If you want to blame this on Bush, power to you. Don't let the truth get in the way of your rhetoric.

The levies should have been addressed decades ago. Was cutting the corps budget the right thing to do? In hindsight, I would say no. However, read your own articles, the problem in NOLA has been a problem for a long time, and there was no scenario under the Bush administration where that disaster (levies) could have been avoided.

[W*GS]

[...]Government disaster officials had an action plan if a major hurricane hit New Orleans. They simply didn't execute it when Hurricane Katrina struck.[...]
A clear case of 'privatization' as failure has rarely been seen.

How does privatization get blamed for a government failure?

Oh yeah, only in LABF's mind. Gotta remember that in his world, government is all good and light and pure, private industry and capitalism are evil and dark and wrong.

[tnedator]

How does privatization get blamed for a government failure?

Oh yeah, only in LABF's mind. Gotta remember that in his world, government is all good and light and pure, private industry and capitalism are evil and dark and wrong.

And on top of that, nobody privatized Governor Blanco's national guard, which she didn't properly utilize, nor the national guard of neighboring states that was available to her.

Yes, LABF will try and pull the "they were all in Iraq" argument, but that simply isn't the case. Both LA and surrounding states had plenty of NG, but Blanco froze and she and the Mayor didn't put any evacuation or contingency plans in place other than saying, "if the **** hits the fan, got to the Super Dome"

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If you want to blame this on Bush, power to you. Don't let the truth get in the way of your rhetoric.


"Rhetoric?" Hilarious!

I just provided you with a copy of the statement from the DHS website explaining how the federal government assumed primary responsibility for responding to the disaster.

I also showed you that Blanco legally put the ball in GeeDubya's court via the Stafford Act.

Maybe you should get W*GS to explain the meaning of the word "rhetoric" to you. :D

[Spider]

"Rhetoric?" Hilarious!

I just provided you with a copy of the statement from the DHS website explaining how the federal government assumed primary responsibility for responding to the disaster.

I also showed you that Blanco legally put the ball in GeeDubya's court via the Stafford Act.

Maybe you should get W*GS to explain the meaning of the word "rhetoric" to you. :D

LOL same ole same hey .. you know damn well Bush could take a 13 year old boy rape him on the white house front lawn , and these Yahoos would say .... Well Bush is just showing terrorist what will happen to them if he catches em

[tnedator]

"Rhetoric?" Hilarious!

I just provided you with a copy of the statement from the DHS website explaining how the federal government assumed primary responsibility for responding to the disaster.

I also showed you that Blanco legally put the ball in GeeDubya's court via the Stafford Act.

Maybe you should get W*GS to explain the meaning of the word "rhetoric" to you. :D

Great, she did absolutely nothing to prevent one of the biggest avoidable disasters in US history and then once it was too late to do anything, she says "tag your it" to Bush and throws it into the lap of the federal government?

That dog don't hunt, as us country bumpkins living in trailers say. What the state and local officials are doing NOW, is what Blanco should have done then.

You can't toss the ball to the federal government 24-48 hours (depending on this 27th/28th thing) and say, "oops, we're unprepared, you guys better mobilize on a moments notice and come on down here".

IN DETAIL, what would you have done to respond better? If you were the president, what would you have done?

[tnedator]

LOL same ole same hey .. you know damn well Bush could take a 13 year old boy rape him on the white house front lawn , and these Yahoos would say .... Well Bush is just showing terrorist what will happen to them if he catches em

I'm no ****ing pedophile, nor do I support any, you dumb ****tard. You may think jokes about pedophiles is funny, but I don't see the humor. Moron.

[W*GS]

Bush and FEMA screwed the pooch on Katrina, no doubt.

How LABF uses that to slam "privatization" is something only he can explain.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Great, she did absolutely nothing to prevent one of the biggest avoidable disasters in US history and then once it was too late to do anything, she says "tag your it" to Bush and throws it into the lap of the federal government?

That dog don't hunt, as us country bumpkins living in trailers say. What the state and local officials are doing NOW, is what Blanco should have done then.

You can't toss the ball to the federal government 24-48 hours (depending on this 27th/28th thing) and say, "oops, we're unprepared, you guys better mobilize on a moments notice and come on down here".

IN DETAIL, what would you have done to respond better? If you were the president, what would you have done?

???

Does your reading comprehension really suck this bad or are you just using the the standard, right-wing "repeat a lie often enough and it will become truth" playbook?

I just showed you that Blanco requested emergency aid under the Stafford Act before the hurricane made landfall - (not "once it was too late" as you claim here) thereby legally putting the ball in Bush's court.

I also showed you that the DHS is supposed to assume primary responsibility for managing large scale disasters like Katrina.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You may think jokes about pedophiles is funny, but I don't see the humor. Moron.

What with so many pedophiles in your party, I'm sure this is a delicate subject for you. Ha!

[Spider]

I'm no ****ing pedophile, nor do I support any, you dumb ****tard. You may think jokes about pedophiles is funny, but I don't see the humor. Moron.Let me see if I can capture this logic , you are a republican well right leaning whatever in the hell you call yourself , you lean right on alot of issues , from Catholic priest on up to republican Judges guilty of pedophilia ....... it wasnt a joke , dont believe me Look up the thread some republicans idea of family values .......

[Spider]

What with so many pedophiles in your party, I'm sure this is a delicate subject for you. Ha!
LOL one of us should dig up the thread .....

[tnedator]

???

Does your reading comprehension really suck this bad or are you just using the the standard, right-wing "repeat a lie often enough and it will become truth" playbook?

I just showed you that Blanco requested emergency aid under the Stafford Act before the hurricane made landfall - (not "once it was too late" as you claim here) thereby legally putting the ball in Bush's court.

I also showed you that the DHS is supposed to assume primary responsibility for managing large scale disasters like Katrina.

Speaking of reading comprehension, again, IN DETAIL, what would you have done to avoid the Katrina disaster if you were handed the ball 24-48 hours after the storm was going to hit landfall.

[tnedator]

Let me see if I can capture this logic , you are a republican well right leaning whatever in the hell you call yourself , you lean right on alot of issues , from Catholic priest on up to republican Judges guilty of pedophilia ....... it wasnt a joke , dont believe me Look up the thread some republicans idea of family values .......

Some lines shouldn't be crossed, Spider. Making jokes about 13 year old boys being raped, whether in an attempt to bash Bush, me, or anyone else, simply is wrong.

You crossed a line, don't try and defend it. That simply is more reprehensible. As I said, you crossed a line and should be ashamed of yourselves. Somethings are not joking matters, nor should be used to further your political agendas. :disgust:

[Spider]

Speaking of reading comprehension, again, IN DETAIL, what would you have done to avoid the Katrina disaster if you were handed the ball 24-48 hours after the storm was going to hit landfall.

you act as if this is some kind of question ........ Simple fly Military cargo planes with supplies to the nearest safe air port to N.O. then ship what you can by truck under heavy NG escort , you repeat this process , you get military doctors in ASAP , you restore Law an Order ASAP . what in the **** is so hard about that ?

[Spider]

Some lines shouldn't be crossed, Spider. Making jokes about 13 year old boys being raped, whether in an attempt to bash Bush, me, or anyone else, simply is wrong.

You crossed a line, don't try and defend it. That simply is more reprehensible. As I said, you crossed a line and should be ashamed of yourselves. Somethings are not joking matters, nor should be used to further your political agendas. :disgust:

Defend it ? LOL dude I am owning it , cause it is the truth ........ your party is the one guilty of it , not mine ...... you want ot get pissed at pedophilia get pissed at those running on family values while screwing kids ......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Speaking of reading comprehension, again, IN DETAIL, what would you have done to avoid the Katrina disaster if you were handed the ball 24-48 hours after the storm was going to hit landfall.

Well, for starters, I would probably make it a point not to put an Arabian horse trainer in charge of FEMA.

Ha!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Some lines shouldn't be crossed, Spider. Making jokes about 13 year old boys being raped, whether in an attempt to bash Bush, me, or anyone else, simply is wrong.

Joke?

What joke? ???

Ever heard of Mark Foley?

[Spider]

I guess I got ot dig up the thread ..someone is in denial . here it is right here ... http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=26393&highlight=Idea+family+values

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LOL one of us should dig up the thread .....

He seems hell-bent on making me go there. :wiggle:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I guess I got ot dig up the thread ..someone is in denial . here it is right here ... http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=26393&highlight=Idea+family+values

Ha!

Beat me to it.

[tnedator]

Well, for starters, I would probably make it a point not to put an Arabian horse trainer in charge of FEMA.

Ha!

Well, if that is your plan to implement 24 hours before the storm hits, then I guess you wouldn't have done much better.

[peacepipe]

Some lines shouldn't be crossed, Spider. Making jokes about 13 year old boys being raped, whether in an attempt to bash Bush, me, or anyone else, simply is wrong

You crossed a line, don't try and defend it. That simply is more reprehensible. As I said, you crossed a line and [B]should be ashamed of yourselves. Somethings are not joking matters, nor should be used to further your political agendas. :disgust:does spider have a multiple personality problem? you reffered to him in the plural...

[Spider]

I bumped the thread for you T ned .........Bout time you learned the truth of your party

[Spider]

does spider have a multiple personality problem? you reffered to him in the plural...

LOL I am not Cybil ...... I am her Brother Diddle

[tnedator]

Well, for starters, I would probably make it a point not to put an Arabian horse trainer in charge of FEMA.

Ha!

Maybe you should turn on the news and watch the Gov Jindal (R) press conference who is outlining what the STATE is doing to prevent a disaster like Katrina, which Gov Blanco (D) was clueless about.

Search and rescue, evacuation, NG deployments, etc. being done at the state level BEFORE the disaster, which is the only way you prevent a preventable disaster.

[Traveler]

Guys! Please don't feed the troll.

[tnedator]

I bumped the thread for you T ned .........Bout time you learned the truth of your party

Something you don't seem to comprehend is that not everyone are all or nothing zealots like yourself. I don't support criminals. If someone molests a kid, whether he is a priest or politician, I would not support that person, because he is a Republican.

Do you even read the **** your write? You just come off like a dip**** when you post stuff like that.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Maybe you should turn on the news and watch the Gov Jindal (R) press conference who is outlining what the STATE is doing to prevent a disaster like Katrina, which Gov Blanco (D) was clueless about.


"Repeat a lie often enough" is the only arrow you have left in your quiver, isn't it?

Still struggling with the meaning of "primary responsibility" also, I see.

[tnedator]

"Repeat a lie often enough" is the only arrow you have left in your quiver, isn't it?

Still struggling with the meaning of "primary responsibility" also, I see.

That's because you are simply focused on a way to blame Bush. I have said that FEMA did a horrible job of getting supplies in, but the fact is that Governor Blanco's plan should not have simply to tell people to go to the Super Dome and bring their own food and water to support themselves for 48-72 hours.

The difference between you and I is that I am interested in discussing what actually happened, you are focused on coming up with ways to blame the Bush administration for a state's failure.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The difference between you and I is that I am interested in discussing what actually happened, you are focused on coming up with ways to blame the Bush administration for a state's failure.

ROFL!

Um, no.

The difference is that you are trying to shift the blame from Bush (whose administration had primary responsibilty for managing the disaster) to Blanco (who, fully aware of the limitations of her state's resources, followed the letter of the law in putting the ball in Bush's and DHS's court.)

[tnedator]

ROFL!

Um, no.

The difference is that you are trying to shift the blame from Bush (whose administration had primary responsibilty for managing the disaster) to Blanco (who, fully aware of the limitations of her state's resources, followed the letter of the law in putting the ball in Bush's and DHS's court.)

No, the difference is that I am open minded enough to know they both ****ed up.

Blanco and Nagey (or whatever the Mayor's name is) simply did not have a proper, nor effective, plan in place to deal with the situation, meaning they let the disaster happen. They didn't properly utilize the LA national guard, nor the national guard of the surrounding states that were available to Blanco. Then, Bush/FEMA/Federal Government did an ineffective job of coming in and cleaning up the mess.

I'm interested in discussing the truth, you are interested in bashing Bush's adminstration.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No, the difference is that I am open minded enough to know they both ****ed up.


:oyvey:

This statement proves that your mind is anything but "open" insofar as you still can't seem to figure out who was responsible for responding to the disaster.

[tnedator]

:oyvey:

This statement proves that your mind is anything but "open" insofar as you still can't seem to figure out who was responsible for responding to the disaster.

And YOU can't figure out who was responsible for PREVENTING the disaster.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And YOU can't figure out who was responsible for PREVENTING the disaster.

Nope - you just haven't been paying attention.

But if you want to probe deeper into that issue, then you will simply run head-first into the facts once again, e.g., that Bush gutted FEMA and cut funding for the Army Corp of Engineers (who were in charge of seeing that the levees were up to snuff.)

[tnedator]

Nope - you just haven't been paying attention.

But if you want to probe deeper into that issue, then you will simply run head-first into the facts once again, e.g., that Bush gutted FEMA and cut funding for the Army Corp of Engineers (who were in charge of seeing that the levees were up to snuff.)

And both the corp and the Dems admitted that the levy funding would not have prevented what happened in Katrina.

See, this is where you zeolots refuse to be open minded enough to see there are two sides to many issues.

In the case of Katrina, there was what should have been done BEFORE the storm hit, and what needed to be done AFTER the storm hit.

Nagey and Blanco completely blew it on what needed to be done BEFORE the storm hit, like the Mayor and Governor are doing THIS time. You simply won't recognize this fact, because it doesn't fit into your need to blame EVERYTHING on Bush.

The part you don't get is that there is enough blame on his shoulders (via the federal response) that you don't have to ignore the state and local failures that could have prevented thousands of deaths.

You zealots always see things as either/or, rather than realizing there are multiple sides to the story.

[ElwayMD]

what cracks me up is how Bush gets blamed for not spending money to fix the levies. Hell Clinton had a surplus but you didn't see him say let's spend it on the NO levies. Things like this don't become an issue until something like Katrina happens.

I'm more interested in seeing if the govt does a better job this time rather then pointing fingers like most people like to do. All you can do is learn from events that happen and try to plan better.

IMO just having the pumps above ground and a good evacuation of low areas will be enough to not repeat Katrina.

well said :thumbsup:

[ElwayMD]

And both the corp and the Dems admitted that the levy funding would not have prevented what happened in Katrina.

See, this is where you zeolots refuse to be open minded enough to see there are two sides to many issues.

In the case of Katrina, there was what should have been done BEFORE the storm hit, and what needed to be done AFTER the storm hit.

Nagey and Blanco completely blew it on what needed to be done BEFORE the storm hit, like the Mayor and Governor are doing THIS time. You simply won't recognize this fact, because it doesn't fit into your need to blame EVERYTHING on Bush.

The part you don't get is that there is enough blame on his shoulders (via the federal response) that you don't have to ignore the state and local failures that could have prevented thousands of deaths.

You zealots always see things as either/or, rather than realizing there are multiple sides to the story.

It's hard for them to zealots when you point out the shades of gray...so it's easier for them to ignore that things are more complicated.

[TDmvp]

what cracks me up is how Bush gets blamed for not spending money to fix the levies. Hell Clinton had a surplus but you didn't see him say let's spend it on the NO levies. Things like this don't become an issue until something like Katrina happens.

I'm more interested in seeing if the govt does a better job this time rather then pointing fingers like most people like to do. All you can do is learn from events that happen and try to plan better.

IMO just having the pumps above ground and a good evacuation of low areas will be enough to not repeat Katrina.

great post ...

[Spider]

LOL so once again it is all Clintons fault ......... color me shocked

[tnedator]

LOL so once again it is all Clintons fault ......... color me shocked

Yes, and before him, Bush I. This levy issue has been a big problem for DECADES.

There is lots of blame to go around for this one, not the least of which sits squarely on the shoulders of the state and local officials not being prepared.

We are a UNITED group of states. Many responsibilities still lie with the states, which is one of the reasons we have state controlled national guards, state legislatures, etc.

The federal response was inadequate AFTER the disaster, the state and local authorities had an obligation to their citizens to mitigate the disaster by doing what they could to PREVENT loss of life.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And both the corp and the Dems admitted that the levy funding would not have prevented what happened in Katrina.



So Bush's response to this is to slash the Corps' funding and to gut FEMA?

Sounds like you picked a real winner there. :D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

There is lots of blame to go around for this one...

And then there's the question of responsibility.

The federal government (read: DHS) had primary reponsibility for managing the disaster.

[Spider]

Yes, and before him, Bush I. This levy issue has been a big problem for DECADES.

There is lots of blame to go around for this one, not the least of which sits squarely on the shoulders of the state and local officials not being prepared.

We are a UNITED group of states. Many responsibilities still lie with the states, which is one of the reasons we have state controlled national guards, state legislatures, etc.

The federal response was inadequate AFTER the disaster, the state and local authorities had an obligation to their citizens to mitigate the disaster by doing what they could to PREVENT loss of life.

Bush 1 Ha! he is the father of God aka W ....... he does no wrong goofy

[tnedator]

And then there's the question of responsibility.

The federal government (read: DHS) had primary reponsibility for managing the disaster.

So, in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagey did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

[PaintballCLE]

I am so sick of the New Orleans crap. People are stupid enough to live in a city tahts below sea level, right on the gulf. Then when it gets flooded its the president's fault? Its their own damn fault for being stupid enough to live below sea level on a major body of water that gets tropical storms. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that 1. Its a bad idea. or 2. If you are foolish enough to live there, you better have a plan in place in case a hurricane comes. F-Them buy then some "floaties" and let them swim. LOL

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So, in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagey did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

Do you understand the Stafford Act?

Once they reached the limits of their state's resources, they followed the procedure and the letter of the law and put the ball in Bush's court.

Then we all saw what happened with that.

But if you have an Arabian horse that needs training, then Bush is your man. :giggle:

[tnedator]

Do you understand the Stafford Act?

Once they reached the limits of their state's resources, they followed the procedure and the letter of the law and put the ball in Bush's court.

Then we all saw what happened with that.

But if you have an Arabian horse that needs training, then Bush is your man. :giggle:

Ok, once again you dodge a question with a Bush bash. Let me post it again, maybe you just didn't see it:

So, in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagey did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ok, once again you dodge a question with a Bush bash.

No - you are simply dodging the eventuality of taking responsibility for where the buck stops.

But that's what Bush and his supporters have always done.

[tnedator]

No - you are simply dodging the eventuality of taking responsibility for where the buck stops.

But that's what Bush and his supporters have always done.

Ok, let's try again:

So, in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagey did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ok, let's try again:

So, in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagey did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

Yes, let's try again:

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

Please ask a grownup to help you with the meaning of the phrase "primary responsibility." :wave:

[tnedator]

Yes, let's try again:



Please ask a grownup to help you with the meaning of the phrase "primary responsibility." :wave:

I have agreed that the federal response afterwards wasn't adequate, however you don't have the balls to answer ONE simple question:

So, in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagey did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I have agreed that the federal response afterwards wasn't adequate,

"Wasn't adequate?" That's putting it mildly, don't you think?


however you don't have the balls to answer ONE simple question:


It has nothing to do with balls and everything to do with the recognition that yours is not so much a question as an attempt to reframe the debate in a way that (a) obscures the truth about where the buck stops, and (b) deflects attention from the person at whose desk the buck stops.

[tnedator]

"Wasn't adequate?" That's putting it mildly, don't you think?



It has nothing to do with balls and everything to do with the recognition that yours is not so much a question as an attempt to reframe the debate in a way that (a) obscures the truth about where the buck stops, and (b) deflects attention from the person at whose desk the buck stops.

No, you don't know me, so I can understand that you would assume that I would be as underhanded in my posting tactics as yourself, but it simply isn't the case.

The point I was trying to make is that there were two parts of the tragedy. A failure in the area of prevention (state and local) and in response (federal). I have agreed that FEMA's response and the federal government in general was too slow and inadequate, it didn't get the job done. However, I have asked you if you thought the prevention part (state and local) was adequate, hence the question:

So, in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

[peacepipe]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5976307.htmlThey are now saying the convention in it's entirety may be cancelled depending how bad it turns out.That McCain/palin will just give there acceptance speeches down in the gulf.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The point I was trying to make is that there were two parts of the tragedy. A failure in the area of prevention (state and local) and in response (federal).

Then you'd be wrong there also.

The federal government (Army Corp of Engineers) was responsible for the prevention part of the equation.

And your boy Dubya stepped on the Corps' collective d*ck at every turn.

[tnedator]

They are now saying the convention in it's entirety may be cancelled depending how bad it turns out.That McCain/palin will just give there acceptance speeches down in the gulf.

At some point they have to do the official convention stuff, of formerly nominating McCain. My understanding is that has to be done.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

They are now saying the convention in it's entirety may be cancelled depending how bad it turns out.That McCain/palin will just give there acceptance speeches down in the gulf.

Look for Team Rove to spin this as an act of heroism on McClone's part.

[tnedator]

Then you'd be wrong there also.

The federal government (Army Corp of Engineers) was responsible for the prevention part of the equation.

And your boy Dubya stepped on the Corps' collective d*ck at every turn.

I don't know what a dubya is.

So, you are saying that in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

Your position is that the corp of engineers was responsible for doing all the things that Mayor Nagin and Governor Jindal are now doing. Ordering evacuations. Having a plan in place for such evacuations. Having a plan for the national guard and police to positioned and keep order, etc.

That's your position, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin did everything right, and that the corp of engineers should have had a plan in place to evacuate the citizens of NOLA, pre-position supplies in shelters, and to order out the national guard?

Wow, I thought the corp just built dams and levies.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I don't know what a dubya is.

The guy you voted for in 2000 and 2004.

So, you are saying that in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?


There you go asking the wrong question again.

Perhaps repetition is the key to comprehension:

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

[tnedator]

The guy you voted for in 2000 and 2004.



There you go asking the wrong question again.

Perhaps repetition is the key to comprehension:

No question is the wrong question. Let me ask another question. Why are you so afraid to answer one simple question?

[PaintballCLE]

Yes, let's try again:



Please ask a grownup to help you with the meaning of the phrase "primary responsibility." :wave:

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp



well last time i checked, katrina happened a long time before march 1st.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No question is the wrong question. Let me ask another question. Why are you so afraid to answer one simple question?

How quickly you forget the answer I just posted a few minutes ago:

It has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with the recognition that your "question" is really a deflection in sheep's clothing.

[PaintballCLE]

How quickly you forget the answer I just posted a few minutes ago:

It has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with the recognition that your "question" is really a deflection in sheep's clothing.

Tned, you gotta remember democrats wont answer questions, they just ignore them and repeat the word "change" all day long.

[tnedator]

How quickly you forget the answer I just posted a few minutes ago:

It has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with the recognition that your "question" is really a deflection.

No, it is not. It is an attempt at an 'honest' discussion about the COMPLETE failure of the system that led to the tragedy.


Decades of ignoring the inadequate and failing levies.
Cutting of funding for the corps
Inadequate planning and execution of an evacuation, shelter and police/NG protection by the state and local officials
Failure of the federal government to quickly mobilize supplies and rescue teams


You are the one that is deflecting by talking about quarter horses and bubbas or whatever the hell your babbling is.

So, once again:

So, in your opinion, Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin did an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

[tnedator]

Tned, you gotta remember democrats wont answer questions, they just ignore them and repeat the word "change" all day long.

Your telling me. This LA guy is hillarious in his fear of answering a question for fear I am going to turn it around on him. Geez, 10 year girls with more guts then him.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Tned, you gotta remember democrats wont answer questions, they just ignore them and repeat the word "change" all day long.This kind of ignorance and stereotyping seems to be prevalent among the few Bush supporters left here.

[tnedator]

This kind of ignorance and stereotyping seems to be prevalent among the few Bush supporters left here.

Well, guys like LA are furthering the stereotype, since he won't answer ONE simple question.

[Bronco Bob]

well last time i checked, katrina happened a long time before march 1st.

Nope, Katrina hit August 29th. Check a calendar, March 1st is before August 29th.

[PaintballCLE]

Nope, Katrina hit August 29th. Check a calendar, March 1st is before August 29th.

Correct, however that was aug 29th of 2005............this was from march 1st 2007.

[Bronco Bob]

Correct, however that was aug 29th of 2005............this was from march 1st 2007.

The Department of Homeland Security Act was formed November 25, 2002.

[PaintballCLE]

The Department of Homeland Security Act was formed November 25, 2002.

correct again...........but if you read what was actually posted......THAT WAS AN AMENDMENT

[NOLA Bronco]

I am so sick of the New Orleans crap. People are stupid enough to live in a city tahts below sea level, right on the gulf. Then when it gets flooded its the president's fault? Its their own damn fault for being stupid enough to live below sea level on a major body of water that gets tropical storms. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that 1. Its a bad idea. or 2. If you are foolish enough to live there, you better have a plan in place in case a hurricane comes. F-Them buy then some "floaties" and let them swim. LOL

New Orleans and the port of New Orleans are an important part of the US history and economy. Most of the old parts of NOLA are not below sea level. NOLA is not on the gulf (check a map). Did you know that pumps are working 24 hours a day to keep water out of the tunnels - of the NYC subway? Should people live in Iowa or Missouri? It can flood there. Should people live in the plains - what about tornados? Plain truth - prior to the railroad, most major cities were on some sort of body of water. Not sure I need to explain why. My point - sh*t can happen anywhere.

The flooding was not the fault of any one person. More people left for Katrina than ever before (before this weekend that is). The levees that failed were in part due to faulty design and faulty construction. The fault on the federal response does fall with Bush, as the buck stops with him. You won't see those failures again. It will help that the LA national guard is for the most part at home and not in Iraq right now. It also helps that it is a presidential campaign year.

We all learned to do things differently from Katrina. This time the mayor and governor have the benefit of correcting mistakes in the past. Jindal would have made many of the same mistakes last time.

If you really feel the way you do, you clearly lack common sense. So F-you too.

- NOLA resident currently in Nashville

[PaintballCLE]

New Orleans and the port of New Orleans are an important part of the US history and economy. Most of the old parts of NOLA are not below sea level. NOLA is not on the gulf (check a map). Did you know that pumps are working 24 hours a day to keep water out of the tunnels - of the NYC subway? Should people live in Iowa or Missouri? It can flood there. Should people live in the plains - what about tornados? Plain truth - prior to the railroad, most major cities were on some sort of body of water. Not sure I need to explain why. My point - sh*t can happen anywhere.

The flooding was not the fault of any one person. More people left for Katrina than ever before (before this weekend that is). The levees that failed were in part due to faulty design and faulty construction. The fault on the federal response does fall with Bush, as the buck stops with him. You won't see those failures again. It will help that the LA national guard is for the most part at home and not in Iraq right now. It also helps that it is a presidential campaign year.

We all learned to do things differently from Katrina. This time the mayor and governor have the benefit of correcting mistakes in the past. Jindal would have made many of the same mistakes last time.

If you really feel the way you do, you clearly lack common sense. So F-you too.

- NOLA resident currently in Nashville


Dude, thats like building a house/city next to a volcano and then blaming the pres when **** gets destroyed.........its just plain stupid if you ask me. I am not just picking on people from NO, this goes for people in homes on the fault lines in CA, Etc....

[PaintballCLE]

New Orleans and the port of New Orleans are an important part of the US history and economy. Most of the old parts of NOLA are not below sea level. NOLA is not on the gulf (check a map). Did you know that pumps are working 24 hours a day to keep water out of the tunnels - of the NYC subway? Should people live in Iowa or Missouri? It can flood there. Should people live in the plains - what about tornados? Plain truth - prior to the railroad, most major cities were on some sort of body of water. Not sure I need to explain why. My point - sh*t can happen anywhere.

The flooding was not the fault of any one person. More people left for Katrina than ever before (before this weekend that is). The levees that failed were in part due to faulty design and faulty construction. The fault on the federal response does fall with Bush, as the buck stops with him. You won't see those failures again. It will help that the LA national guard is for the most part at home and not in Iraq right now. It also helps that it is a presidential campaign year.

We all learned to do things differently from Katrina. This time the mayor and governor have the benefit of correcting mistakes in the past. Jindal would have made many of the same mistakes last time.

If you really feel the way you do, you clearly lack common sense. So F-you too.

- NOLA resident currently in Nashville


another thing......its not liek bush or anyone knew that levees/dams were contructed faulty. How were they to know everything was going to fail? They didn't.........and when it did........it took time to get everything together and organized to send down there.

[NOLA Bronco]

I won't really blame Bush for the disaster. The feds responsible for the poor contruction do fall under his control. He assumes the responsibility as president, even if it was before his time. He is definitely to blame with the cluster **** response though.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Though W probably thinks we didn't pray enough...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Department of Homeland Security Act was formed November 25, 2002.

Yep.

Amazing how often you have to correct some piece of right-wing revisionist history or other.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Well, guys like LA are furthering the stereotype, since he won't answer ONE simple question.

There you go repeating a lie again.

Your "question" was nothing but a deflection in sheep's clothing.

[Rohirrim]

another thing......its not liek bush or anyone knew that levees/dams were contructed faulty. How were they to know everything was going to fail? They didn't.........and when it did........it took time to get everything together and organized to send down there.

It was three ****ing days before Bush did ****. Three days of Americans dying. I'd say it was pretty much just one more "Pet Goat" moment for Bush.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It was three ****ing days before Bush did ****. Three days of Americans dying. I'd say it was pretty much just one more "Pet Goat" moment for Bush.

Yep.

Isn't it amazing how short these right-wing revisionist nincompoops and memory hole jockeys think our memories are?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/c/g/bush_guitar_seal.jpg

[PaintballCLE]

It was three ****ing days before Bush did ****. Three days of Americans dying. I'd say it was pretty much just one more "Pet Goat" moment for Bush.

3 days..........do you know how long it takes to get that amount of supplies, troops, vehicles, etc?

You guys make it sound liek they had it sitting there waiting to go, then did nothing.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

3 days..........do you know how long it takes to get that amount of supplies, troops, vehicles, etc?

You guys make it sound liek they had it sitting there waiting to go, then did nothing.

Whereas, in your blind partisan compulsion to cover Disaster Boy's flank, you make it sound like BushCo had only three days notice that a category 4 or 5 hurricane was approaching.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush, Cheney to skip GOP convention because of Gustav

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-bush1-2008sep01,0,4266876.story

Cheney too! He'll be filling sandbags somewhere, I suppose.

[tnedator]

There you go repeating a lie again.



Oh, you grew a sac and answered the simple question? I went to bed, let me go look for your answer. Good going. :thumbsup:

[tnedator]

Whereas, in your blind partisan compulsion to cover Disaster Boy's flank, you make it sound like BushCo had only three days notice that a category 4 or 5 hurricane was approaching.

Oh, I see you didn't have the stones to answer the simple question. Let me try one more time. Come on, LA, you can do it. Pretend your a man with enough guts to answer ONE SIMPLE QUESTION:

In your opinion, did Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin do an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Oh, I see you didn't have the stones to answer the simple question. Let me try one more time. Come on, LA, you can do it. Pretend your a man with enough guts to answer ONE SIMPLE QUESTION:

In your opinion, did Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin do an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

Heh heh heh! ;D

I have to give you credit for your tenacity and indefatigable spirit when it comes to covering for the court-appointed pinhead.

Too bad your wires got crossed somewhere along the line and you picked a man who was totally undeserving of such unflinching loyalty and devotion.

Bush apologists like you remind me of kids from f@cked up families who constantly make excuses for their drunk, abusive daddy - no matter how many times he abuses and betrays them.

Change is coming, Bubba.

Question is: are you gonna man up, pull your head out of your ass, and roll with it - or are you going to hitch your wagon to the Candidate McCheese train and get rolled by it?

It's your call. :D

[NOLA Bronco]

In your opinion, did Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin do an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

Knowing what we know now - no. Knowing what we knew then - yes.

Hindisght is a mother****er though.

More people left than ever before. A shelter was provided for those with no means to get out. Though weaknesses were known, no one could have planned for the levees to break where they did.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Republican Convention Schedule Leaked!

Day 1 of the RNC schedule:

7:00 pm......Ceremonial burning of the U.S. Constitution

7:15 pm......Spiritual Medium Sylvia Browne performs psychic séance in desperate attempt to raise Ronald Reagan from the grave.

7:35 pm......"The Pleasures of Adultery" - with Newt Gingrich & Rudy Giuliani.

8:05 pm......Gay sex party in Men's Restroom hosted by Senator Larry Craig.

8:35 pm......Transvestite Ann Coulter "My Life as a Man."

8:55 pm......Live satellite feed from Federal Prison: Ohio Rep. Bob Ney.

9:05 pm......Guest speaker ex-Florida Congressman Mark Foley "Joys with Young Boys."

9:25 pm......Oliver North "Iran is Evil, but I sold them weapons anyway."

9:40 pm......Bill O' Reilly "The costs of sexual harassment and phone sex with employees."

10:00 pm......Gay sex party in Men's Room hosted by Ken Mehlman and Geraldo Rivera.

10:25 pm......Check John McCain to see if he's still breathing and if his adult diaper needs changed..

10:35 pm......N.R.A. President hosts an assault rifle target practice on Gays and Mexicans.

10:45 pm......Call emergency squad after a drunken Dick Cheney accidentally shoots his friend in the face.

11:00 pm......President Bush performs his hilarious comedy routine where he looks for Iraq's fictitious WMD under guests' tables.

11:15 pm......Governor Mike Huckabee does his famous uncanny imitation of Gomer Pyle..

11:20 pm......Group intervention to get Rush Limbaugh back into drug rehab

11: 45 pm Go up on rooftop and throw rocks down at homeless Vets sleeping in alley..

12:00 am......Live satellite feed from Federal Prison: California Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham.

12:20 am......Convicted felon/Fox News analyst G. Gordon Liddy: Lock picking secrets.

12: 40 am......Guest speakers Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz "How to lie your Country into a War."

1:00 am......Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay "Tips on Money Laundering."

1:15 am......Hookers arrive for after party.

[defenseman]

On the upside, the response to Gustav appears to be very well coordinated and the leadership in Louisiana and FEMA have done a great job so far. A chance to trumpet that we can learn from our mistakes. All citizens should be proud of the progress. I do desire they get those darned levies corrected sooner than later, it's obvious mother nature is not paying attention to rebuilding efforts in NOLA and surrounding areas, she's still itching to muck it up again........dman

[Spider]

Gustav Cat 2 , make landfall by midday .......

[Rohirrim]

3 days..........do you know how long it takes to get that amount of supplies, troops, vehicles, etc?

You guys make it sound liek they had it sitting there waiting to go, then did nothing.

Walmart's water trucks got there before Bush's government did. Perot's helicopters got there before Bush's government got there. Hell, Brad Pitt and Sean Pean got there before Bush's government got there. That's all I need to know. It was another "Pet Goat" moment for Bush. The idiot only has one reaction to an emergency after all, "Wait until somebody tells me what to do."

[Spider]

3 days..........do you know how long it takes to get that amount of supplies, troops, vehicles, etc?

You guys make it sound liek they had it sitting there waiting to go, then did nothing.
3 days is an eternity ...........

[tnedator]

Knowing what we know now - no. Knowing what we knew then - yes.

Hindisght is a mother****er though.

More people left than ever before. A shelter was provided for those with no means to get out. Though weaknesses were known, no one could have planned for the levees to break where they did.

Yet someone like LABF can't simply answer a simple question like you. It's pathetic. He simply comes back with some nonsense about me being a Bush Apologist.

I don't mind liberals, I just have no patience for the stupid ones or those that are gutless. I'm all for discussing differences on issues, but it requires dealing with people that have the balls to actually enter into a two way 'discussion'.

Back to your great answer.

I think you make a good point about what we know now, vs. then. The one thing I will add, which LABF has spammed repeatedly in an attempt to dodge my question, and that is that there have been models for decades that showed that if a hurricane hit NOLA, it could create a surge that overfilled lake Ponchetrain (spelling?), which would then flood NOLA as the hurricane then proceed past NOLA and the wind on the west side blew the surge water back out of the lake into NOLA.

Beyond that, the Corp said the levies were ONLY designed to hold up to a Cat III hurricane. So, while the break that occurred many hours after the Mayor and Governor said NOLA dodged a bullet, the fact is that there is no excuse for the state and local officials to not have a plan in place to deal with a direct hit from a Cat III+ hurricane, which for years people had known could flood NOLA.

However, people like LABF would never admit any of that, because in their closed minds, they think that would some how absolve the feds. They lack the reasoning skills to know that their can be 'multiple' points of 'blame' if blame must be assigned.

[Bronco Bob]

Oh, I see you didn't have the stones to answer the simple question. Let me try one more time. Come on, LA, you can do it. Pretend your a man with enough guts to answer ONE SIMPLE QUESTION:

In your opinion, did Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin do an effective job in preparing NOLA for Katrina's landfall?

Blaming Nagen and Blanco for not being prepared is like blaming
the patient when the brain surgeon screws up the operation
and the patient is paralyzed. It was FEMA's job to plan for
disasters. It's FEMA's only job. A mayor or a governor have
a million other tasks to do besides preparing for every disaster
that could befall a state or a city. You can hardly expect someone
who isn't trained for a disaster to be an expert for one when
it happens. But someone whose job it is to handle a disaster
(FEMA) ought to know what they are doing.

[spdirty]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/c/g/bush_guitar_seal.jpg

LOL put the one up of bush and cheney fishing.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Blaming Nagen and Blanco for not being prepared is like blaming
the patient when the brain surgeon screws up the operation
and the patient is paralyzed. It was FEMA's job to plan for
disasters. It's FEMA's only job. A mayor or a governor have
a million other tasks to do besides preparing for every disaster
that could befall a state or a city. You can hardly expect someone
who isn't trained for a disaster to be an expert for one when
it happens. But someone whose job it is to handle a disaster
(FEMA) ought to know what they are doing.

:yep:

The really funny part is that our new right-wing attack dog doesn't seem to realize that his "question" is merely a (very transparent) effort to deflect blame/cover GeeDubya's flank.

[spdirty]

Watching Fox News who is saying its been downgraded to a tropical storm, 60 mph winds. Thank the good lord.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LOL put the one up of bush and cheney fishing.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/o/f/bush_vacation_fishing.jpg

[tnedator]

Blaming Nagen and Blanco for not being prepared is like blaming
the patient when the brain surgeon screws up the operation
and the patient is paralyzed. It was FEMA's job to plan for
disasters. It's FEMA's only job. A mayor or a governor have
a million other tasks to do besides preparing for every disaster
that could befall a state or a city. You can hardly expect someone
who isn't trained for a disaster to be an expert for one when
it happens. But someone whose job it is to handle a disaster
(FEMA) ought to know what they are doing.

The Governor didn't ask for federal assistance until 24-48 hours before landfull, no where near enough time for any federal agency to step in an do anything.

Side note, LABF still hasn't grown a big enough pair to answer the original question.

You comparison to a brain surgery patient simply doesn't fit the situation. Sounds good, great from a smoke, blowing rhetoric stand point, but in no way applies to what happened.

Blanco said she had it under control. She said she didn't need help. Nagin was publicly criticizing her for not seeking federal help, nor providing him the support he needed. All of this was long before the storm hit. This is all from memory, I will try and find links to stories or press conferences for you guys to refresh you memory on the facts, so you can consider those, rather than simply using a national disaster for political gain.

[tnedator]

:yep:

The really funny part is that our new right-wing attack dog doesn't seem to realize that his "question" is merely a (very transparent) effort to deflect blame/cover GeeDubya's flank.

No, but I noticed that you still aren't man enough (you are a man, right?) to answer the simply question, and then argue WHY it doesn't matter after you answered the question.

Maybe if you would take your skirt and panties off and climb into a pair of pants, you would feel enough like a man to answer a simple question.

I have NEVER said that the Feds did a good job or shouldn't have TONS of blame. However, you are to closed minded to realize that mistakes were made long before the ball was handed off as well.

[TailgateNut]

No, but I noticed that you still aren't man enough (you are a man, right?) to answer the simply question, and then argue WHY it doesn't matter after you answered the question.

Maybe if you would take your skirt and panties off and climb into a pair of pants, you would feel enough like a man to answer a simple question.

I have NEVER said that the Feds did a good job or shouldn't have TONS of blame. However, you are to closed minded to realize that mistakes were made long before the ball was handed off as well.


Using your SOP. I noticed you are still a dick. (you are a dick, aren't you). Go to a rival board and singlehandedly stink it up with BS! Maybe we should flood your dump with the same type of horseapples.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Using your SOP. I noticed you are still a dick. (you are a dick, aren't you). Go to a rival board and singlehandedly stink it up with BS! Maybe we should flood your dump with the same type of horseapples.

I hope he sticks around for awhile - I want to watch him melt down when Turtle Head and Caribou Barbie go down in flames. ;)

[tnedator]

Using your SOP. I noticed you are still a dick. (you are a dick, aren't you). Go to a rival board and singlehandedly stink it up with BS! Maybe we should flood your dump with the same type of horseapples.

Why are you so threatened by me being here that you have to keep bringing up the other board? ???

[TailgateNut]

Why are you so threatened by me being here that you have to keep bringing up the other board? ???

SPAM SUCKS!

Be honest, you're just here drummin' up business for your dump. Hence the link in the sig.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

SPAM SUCKS!

Be honest, you're just here drummin' up business for your dump. Hence the link in the sig.

:yep:

Who needs to visit that dump when you have the Mane?

It's like he's asking us to trade our brand new Beamer for a 2001 Ford Taurus. ;)

[tnedator]

SPAM SUCKS!

Be honest, you're just here drummin' up business for your dump. Hence the link in the sig.

Are you an idiot, or do you just play one on the internet?

That link was to an online petition that I was asked to create by a season ticket holder. Since the Broncos have stated they are keeping the IN-COM-PLETE chant, it isn't necessary anymore.

Happy, it's gone.

[TailgateNut]

:yep:

Who needs to visit that dump when you have the Mane?

It's like he's asking us to trade our brand new Beamer for a 2001 Ford Taurus. ;)


Gotta love the OM look he has. How ****ing original. Just like the threads and takes he brings to the table.

[tnedator]

Gotta love the OM look he has. How ****ing original. Just like the threads and takes he brings to the table.

What OM look? What are you babbling about. There is no OM look anyplace.

[TailgateNut]

Are you an idiot, or do you just play one on the internet?

That link was to an online petition that I was asked to create by a season ticket holder. Since the Broncos have stated they are keeping the IN-COM-PLETE chant, it isn't necessary anymore.

Happy, it's gone.

Just like your "Broncos07" link. What a douchebag!

[TailgateNut]

What OM look? What are you babbling about. There is no OM look anyplace.


Panties in a bunch, and it's only mid-morning on monday!;D

[tnedator]

Panties in a bunch, and it's only mid-morning on monday!;D

I noticed you didn't answer the question. How on earth do you think that BF looks like OM? Once again don't know what you are talking about. BF was formed when a bunch of people left Mania, and the color scheme is very similar to what Mania used to be. It looks NOTHING like the OM.

As to Broncos07. That has been in my sig for years, long before BF ever occurred. People on Mania at one time were talking about how it would be nice to have all the Broncos news one site, so I created a news aggregation site and created a sig that shows the latest headlines.

I don't run google ads on the site. I don't get any revenue from the site. I put it together because some Broncos fans asked for it. I have my sig so other Broncos fans can see the latest Broncos news. I use the same sig (just larger, also with a link to Broncos07 where they can get to the full artcle that goes with the headline) on BF. Am I spamming BF, also? Duhh, guess you need to think about that one.

I use the same sig on Mania, and again have for years before BF was ever created.

I have supported OM and its members in words and deeds, so you are simply talking out your ass as usual.