anyone left who still thinks Foxworth should start?

[broncofan7]

This ENTIRE preseason he has showed me Diddly-poo. He must be a practice- Probowler because I heard nothing but good things about him from the posters on this site and writers from RMN/DPO, but I have not seen anything rsembling that in the preseason games that I have witnessed.

I want to see JMFW as our nickel corner (I realize that there will be growing pains)and keep Paymah as our 4th CB. I want to see Foxy shopped and hopefully we can get a 4th for him. He will be a FA next year and quite honestly, some team will be willing to make him a starter and pay him as such, he will not stay in Denver. So before he gets even further exposed to the rest of the league--lets get something BACK for him. Foxy must go......

[Broncosmang]

I think I'm with you on this one. He has looked terrible.

[peacepipe]

We should've traded him while he still had value.

[Los Broncos]

Paymah is almost worthless as well.

[CasinoRoyal]

Nah because i havent seen him dogged as much as im reading here....

If thats the case we should cut Dre Bly or trade him aswell.

Im fine with all of our corners though.

When we started getting pressure or corners started looking good getting tips, ints, and all that stuff from pressured throws.

Thats how a CB makes his money.

The great ones are going to make plays regardless but everybody cant eb Champ Bailey.

Hell even Champ Bailey needs a good pass rush. When he had all those INTs that year alot of them were from badly thrown balls and tips from the QB being pressured.

[Bronx33]

He played his man aweful out of position 9 times out of 10 and it wasn't some hard to cover route or bad ass receiver fox is inconsistant in pass coverage. (end of story) just look where he was on the TD he gave the reciever the intire inside and by the time he reacted it was over it has nothing to do with a pass rush fox plays off to far when he need to play bump and run disrupt the damn route!

[CasinoRoyal]

You think its not the coaches having these guys line up that far off???

However that touchdown pass was a lose lose situation.

I dont think you depend on a safety to cover the whole section outsaide the hashes and then the whole middle of the field also.

Like where was the help?

That was a TE running down the field who was 6'7 and athletic.

[wolf754life]

foxy had a bad game last night no question.

however, he is still a good #3 corner. but the guy does need a reality check about starting, he isn't ready and he doesn't deserve starter cash....

jack williams will be better next year than paymah or foxy.

[CasinoRoyal]

Yeah Jacks future looks brighter.

[montrose]

Foxy is an above-average nickelback who's a good guy to have on the team and in the community. That's it, IMO. I'd like to see him stay at a salary that reflects that role, but I see him going somewhere to compete for a starting role. That's fine, we can always draft/sign 4th and 5th corners next year. Until we get a true pass-rush from the front 4, overpaying at the CB position is worthless. If JMFW turns out to be a solid nickel and we draft or sign a guy to fill the #4 spot - I wouldn't feel like our secondary was any weaker next year assuming the pass rush is at the same level.

[ScottXray]

Fox does play too far off and doesn't look for the ball. But he is better at run and screen support than Paymah, and while he gets beat for the completion, he is MUCH better at tackling than Paymah.

The series they picked on him there was no saftey help, and he looked bad.

So when they rolled the safetys over the next series, Arizona started picking on Paymah, and he wasn't even close to his man at the time of the reception, and there were always YAC.

Neither are starters, but Fox> Paymah at CB. With Bly being dinged we have a definite problem at our 2nd CB spot. JMFW is a rook, and his two picks were because of QB Pressure last night and an absolutely horrible throw in the Dallas game. Still, he made plays on both so maybe earns the 5th CB spot. Mostly I think he goes to PS.

[cutthemdown]

my main concern with Foxworth is that even when he's in position he often doesn't make a play.

[watermock]

It's not that he's not there, he just seems to not want to break on the ball for some reason...he doesn't CHALLENGE the catch, either to break it up/pick, OR to force a drop!

Usually he is THERE, but he seems to just watch at that critical moment. Maybe he will be more agressive once the games are real...

[Popps]

I pointed this out on another thread. Those two just really can't cover anyone, and it's not just our lack of pass-rush. They just look behind the curve.

[cutthemdown]

It's not that he's not there, he just seems to not want to break on the ball for some reason...he doesn't CHALLENGE the catch, either to break it up OR to force a drop!

Usually he is THERE, but he seems to just watch at that critical moment. Maybe he will be more agressive once the games are real...

Scouts call it poor ball skills.

Broncos probably figure he is often in position he will come around and make plays. I think you either got it or you don't and Foxworth will always be very avg player.

Bly although he often gets beat or misses a tackle will make plays on the ball when he is in the right position. IMO that is the big difference between those 2 players.

[brncobrett]

I have to agree Fox was terrible last night, as well as against dallas. Bad postion everytime. No where near being a starter.

[lex]

Dre Bly didnt look that great either.

[Kaylore]

There are a lot of people who (wrongly) believe he should start and they're all on Broncomania. I swear some of the stuff they talk about over there is beyond me.

[montrose]

Playing CB in this league is hard, really hard. We've all been spoiled by Champ. The Giants won the Super Bowl last year with a makeshift secondary that included Sam Madison, Jason Webster and a rookie. The Patriots almost went undefeated with Asante Samuel - a good corner but no Champ or Asomugha and that bum Ellis Hobbs.

Case in point, CB's - no matter how good or bad - are going to be beaten more often that not unless their name is Champ Bailey or Namdi Asomugha. With that, I'd rather have a CB that takes chances to make big plays (Bly) than the one who plays conservatively and gets picked on all game (Foxworth). My only beef with Bly is that I wish he were a better tackler, other than that I think he plays the position as well as any other CB in the league could here in Denver considering the rules favor the offense, we don't have a pass rush and he plays opposite Champ. Nate Clements, Rashean Mathis, Samuel, Antonio Cromartie - they'd all be getting beaten just as often as Bly.

Foxworth on the other hand is a nice nickleback who can cover slot WR's decently well but he'd still be torn up of Wes Welker, Stokley, Antwan Randel-El, etc. He's a good guy to have on the team, but I don't think we'll be missing much on-the-field if he leaves and JMFW steps in.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Dude looked like **** last year as well, last night should not have been any sort of revelation.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Foxworthless has been overrated by Maners for many years. The guy used to get toasted by Eddie Kennison.

[theAPAOps5]

There are a lot of people who (wrongly) believe he should start and they're all on Broncomania. I swear some of the stuff they talk about over there is beyond me.

I'm pretty sure its safe to call Foxworth a "Practice Player" as in he is amazing in Practice and disappears in the game. We all were raving about him at camp because he was playing amazing but it never translates to game day.

[Bronx33]

HEY BOB!

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2008/02/25/daily5.html?ana=from_rss

[ScottXray]

:yayaya: LOL LOL LOL

[montrose]

I'm pretty sure its safe to call Foxworth a "Practice Player" as in he is amazing in Practice and disappears in the game. We all were raving about him at camp because he was playing amazing but it never translates to game day.

Jarvis Moss remains the team's biggest practice player to me. He's been a freaking monster in every practice I've ever attended. For all the good talk about Foxworth in practice, he was making picks on Ramsey - keep that in mind. When he was facing the #1 offense, I say Jay and BMarsh sh*t all over him. Not that they wouldn't do that to any other CB in the league, but this talk that he was pushing Bly and for god sake Champ was just ridiculous. Foxy is a favorite of the local media and they, in turn, made his camp out to be more than it really was. I thought he had a good camp - for Domonique Foxworth. He played up to his potential during camp - I consider his potential to be a very good Nickleback and that's it.

[CasinoRoyal]

Moss has been getting owned by Clady in Camps from every report ive seen....

But then again Clady just owns everybody : )

But yeah everyday in camp i read about foxworth doing great things in practice...

Dont know why it hasnt translated to the field yet.

Differance between those two are that Moss is a rook

[CBF1]

I for one thought he would be a cut down day victim...So much for what I know.

[KipCorrington25]

Foxworth is a nickle back and nothing more, I've been saying it for a couple years, ever since his campaigning in the press to be a starter. And say what you want to about Bly but he's actually done it in the league for years so I'll take that expierience over someone who is all talk.

[dsmoot]

Foxy is an above-average nickelback who's a good guy to have on the team and in the community. That's it, IMO. I'd like to see him stay at a salary that reflects that role, but I see him going somewhere to compete for a starting role. That's fine, we can always draft/sign 4th and 5th corners next year. Until we get a true pass-rush from the front 4, overpaying at the CB position is worthless. If JMFW turns out to be a solid nickel and we draft or sign a guy to fill the #4 spot - I wouldn't feel like our secondary was any weaker next year assuming the pass rush is at the same level.

When a player has been in the league for 4 years or more and is not starting, its time to move onto the next player who is younger and has more upside. The only time I would deviate from that is if the guy is a special teams stud.

[TheReverend]

When a player has been in the league for 4 years or more and is not starting, its time to move onto the next player who is younger and has more upside. The only time I would deviate from that is if the guy is a special teams stud.

That's misleading.

You're talking about a guy who plays over 50% of the defensive snaps... when you factor in the snaps he's also seen annually at S, he's been on the field MORE than our "starting" Sam.

So, whatever.

[Broncos4Life]

This ENTIRE preseason he has showed me Diddly-poo. He must be a practice- Probowler because I heard nothing but good things about him from the posters on this site and writers from RMN/DPO, but I have not seen anything rsembling that in the preseason games that I have witnessed.

I want to see JMFW as our nickel corner (I realize that there will be growing pains)and keep Paymah as our 4th CB. I want to see Foxy shopped and hopefully we can get a 4th for him. He will be a FA next year and quite honestly, some team will be willing to make him a starter and pay him as such, he will not stay in Denver. So before he gets even further exposed to the rest of the league--lets get something BACK for him. Foxy must go......

After the AZ game, hell no! He was just bad. He did have a nice pass breakup, but other than that he just does not have a nose for the ball. He will never be a starter. The only way he stays on the team is if Bly leaves next season and then maybe Shanny keeps him to battle for the starting spot opposite Champ against JMFW. There won't be much of a battle though because JMFW is a playmaker and Foxy will have to come back as a nickleback again. On a side note Hamza looked real good and Paymayh looked like his usual PI self. Would be surprised if hes around into next season as well.

[Florida_Bronco]

Obviously he should not be starting over Bly, but he is a quality player who is an asset to this team. He had a very good season in 05, and a good 06-07 and if Bly leaves I would feel confident with him playing the other corner.

[dsmoot]

Obviously he should not be starting over Bly, but he is a quality player who is an asset to this team. He had a very good season in 05, and a good 06-07 and if Bly leaves I would feel confident with him playing the other corner.

I would feel much less confident.

[dsmoot]

That's misleading.

You're talking about a guy who plays over 50% of the defensive snaps... when you factor in the snaps he's also seen annually at S, he's been on the field MORE than our "starting" Sam.

So, whatever.

I am sorry I did not make myself clear. I was talking about a player who feels he is ready for a starting role at CB. He is not a player of choice at safety because of his size even though circumstances forced him into that position. At safety, he was a stop gap at best. If he had shown promise at safety, Shanahan would have left him there to put the best players on the field. I was really hoping that Foxworthy might step up to that change in position to fill a real need on this team.

At corner, he is a nickel back and not much more. He does not react particularly well to the ball. He is in the area but not challenging the other teams WR. I don't see him going to many teams in the league and filling any other role than nickel/backup corner. So it isn't just a matter of the unfortunate circumstances of playing behind Champ or Bly. If Foxworthy was of starting caliber would Bly even be on this team.

I am of the philosophy that if you aren't moving forward, you are actually digressing, meaning that you keep bringing in players who will push your starting players for playing time and fill the nickel and dime with those players. After 4 years, I no longer see that potential with Foxworthy (or Paymah). That is exactly why you bring in guy like Jack Williams. He now becomes the guy with the potential to improve his game and makes a Dre Bly expendable. Foxworthy is what he is.

[Willynowei]

It's not that he's not there, he just seems to not want to break on the ball for some reason...he doesn't CHALLENGE the catch, either to break it up/pick, OR to force a drop!

Usually he is THERE, but he seems to just watch at that critical moment. Maybe he will be more agressive once the games are real...

Good take Mock, your posts have gradually become more sensical since you've returned to the mane.

[MVP-06]

He is undersized and breaks on the ball poorly. Pope made him look like an idiot in the Az game on the TD catch. He is a nickel corner and nothing else. Williams seems to have a nose for the ball, a couple of picks in the preseason, however, does not mean much to me. Let's see how he does against 1st stringers

[TotallyScrewed]

It made me laugh to hear Foxy say the "he was second tier, so long as Champ was here".

Dude you're second tier to everybody except Paymah.

[Hamrob]

I've wanted Foxy to step up. But, he just hasn't and probably won't. Yeah, he talks confident to the media. i.e. telling them that he thinks he could start on all 32 teams. But when it comes to games, he's weak and plays with little to no confidence. His sole game is to have the receiver catch the ball in front of him, so that he can tackle him. Woohoo!

When is the guy ever going to prevent a catch....breakup a pass...or intercept a pass? Doesn't happen very often. The guy is toast. IMO, Paymah has alot more upside and I believe we'll see that during the season.

As for Foxy being a model citizen. I guess that depends on your perogative. I tend to believe that he's a distraction....why because he spends more time working for the UNION then he does trying to improve his game.

[TheReverend]

I am sorry I did not make myself clear. I was talking about a player who feels he is ready for a starting role at CB. He is not a player of choice at safety because of his size even though circumstances forced him into that position. At safety, he was a stop gap at best. If he had shown promise at safety, Shanahan would have left him there to put the best players on the field. I was really hoping that Foxworthy might step up to that change in position to fill a real need on this team.

At corner, he is a nickel back and not much more. He does not react particularly well to the ball. He is in the area but not challenging the other teams WR. I don't see him going to many teams in the league and filling any other role than nickel/backup corner. So it isn't just a matter of the unfortunate circumstances of playing behind Champ or Bly. If Foxworthy was of starting caliber would Bly even be on this team.

I am of the philosophy that if you aren't moving forward, you are actually digressing, meaning that you keep bringing in players who will push your starting players for playing time and fill the nickel and dime with those players. After 4 years, I no longer see that potential with Foxworthy (or Paymah). That is exactly why you bring in guy like Jack Williams. He now becomes the guy with the potential to improve his game and makes a Dre Bly expendable. Foxworthy is what he is.

He's definitely a starting corner on a ton of teams in this league... he could (and HAS) filled the role here, when needed to, with very little drop off. Imagine his success on a team that doesn't scheme their corners on an island?

Bly was brought here for the Jim Bates scheme so we could have 2 very good man corners (much like how they use Al Harris and Woodson in GB), and it's fortunate Bly's still here for Slowik considering the amount of 8 in the box we're going to play along with heavy blitzing.

I can see your frustration with Paymah's lack of development... but Fox has been there and done that several times a season since his rookie year, and what specifically is the complaint about his PS performance? That he wasn't Champ? Look at the level of competition he plays in practice and also look at what he's had to line-up against just this pre-season. I don't recall TO lighting up the scoreboard... or anyone for that matter.

Is Bly better? Yup, Bly has nearly unparalleled ball-skills, while Fox is a better tackler.

Regardless, why talk **** about someone who plays at a high level and is a great security blanket for the team?

[Crushaholic]

I said awhile back that Foxworth doesn't deserve a starting spot for his spotty play. In addition, I wanted to trade Foxworth or release him so people don't keep calling him Foxy. That's wrong on all SORTS of levels...ROFL!