Obama's KILLED it tonight!!

[SonOfLe-loLang]

VERY presidential. I thought it was pretty much perfect and ive been a bit of a critic of him (even though id vote for him of course). But that was special.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Whoops, i didnt edit the title of the thread properly..i originally wrote something else...but whatever. everyone will deal

[spdirty]

did you cry?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Dont be jealous now:)

[theAPAOps5]

I thought he was well spoken. Attacked and described his plan

[gunns]

did you cry?

Nope, that was the 2004 election.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Nope, that was the 2004 election.

HAHA exactly

[theAPAOps5]

I liked how he said we are the Party of Roosevelt we are the party of Kennedy. Then slammed the mistake Bush and his foreign policy.

[spdirty]

Nope, that was the 2004 election.

so I gather you will cry again in november...

[defenseman]

So much for for being above it all, he can sling mud with the best of them. Second, there is not a small business owner in the country right now not shaking in his or her boots, he gets in, their taxes double. Lastly, same ole democratic campaign speech, make the government bigger and bigger and bigger........and we get to pay for EVERYONE that wants to go to college, how nice you spending my money that way......same ole democrat, same ole story.....he's no different than the rest...except, he can deliver a speech even if half his statements were flat out wrong...dman

[defenseman]

I thought he was well spoken. Attacked and described his plan

Too bad he flat out lied a few times...dman

[spdirty]

So much for for being above it all, he can sling mud with the best of them. Second, there is not a small business owner in the country right now not shaking in his or her boots, he gets in, their taxes double. Lastly, same ole democratic campaign speech, make the government bigger and bigger and bigger........and we get to pay for EVERYONE that wants to go to college, how nice you spending my money that way......same ole democrat, same ole story.....he's no different than the rest...except, he can deliver a speech even if half his statements were flat out wrong...dman

well, he gets in, americans who make this country work will have to work even harder to overcome it.

[USAFBronco]

He did very well, there were some comments that I didn't agree with, others I completely did.

for example, when he brought up the nation of whiners and then the workers in the auto plant, I felt as if he was implying that it's because of the current president and ideology that thier plants where closing down. You can't completly blame GWB on that, where's the blame on the GM execs refusing to compete with foreign auto makers, where is the blame for the lack of innovative ideas?

But one of the best comments came when he talked about red america Vs Blue america how we've had repub, democrat and independent troops fight and die for this flag, that red or blue, we still are the red white and blue.

[defenseman]

so I gather you will cry again in november...

i'm hoping so, can't trust his candidate to do the right thing.....DRILL you fool...dman

[SonOfLe-loLang]

So much for for being above it all, he can sling mud with the best of them. Second, there is not a small business owner in the country right now not shaking in his or her boots, he gets in, their taxes double. Lastly, same ole democratic campaign speech, make the government bigger and bigger and bigger........and we get to pay for EVERYONE that wants to go to college, how nice you spending my money that way......same ole democrat, same ole story.....he's no different than the rest...except, he can deliver a speech even if half his statements were flat out wrong...dman

Dude, you are so full of ****. I'm sorry. First of all, his tax plan only effects small business owners that make over a certain amount. Second, his passion and his conviction shown through during this speech. It was just wonderfully crafted.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

i'm hoping so, can't trust his candidate to do the right thing.....DRILL you fool...dman

John McCain even admitted drilling off shore wont really do anything. He said it was for "psychological purposes". Read the times article on wind power from yesterday. Its all there for us if we pay for it. Go ahead, vote mccain and expect the same old bull****.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So much for for being above it all, he can sling mud with the best of them.

Looks like you still can't tell the difference between pointing out the facts re: the Bush/GOP record of the past eight years and "mud slinging." :oyvey:

Second, there is not a small business owner in the country right now not shaking in his or her boots, he gets in, their taxes double.

:bs:

Just the opposite is true - only the top 1% will see their taxes increase under Obama.

Check the facts before you spew your ditto monkey disinfo.

[TailgateNut]

i'm hoping so, can't trust his candidate to do the right thing.....DRILL you fool...dman


That show your lack of knowledge in regards to drilling and the effects drilling would have on the economy, the price of gas now and in a decade. The same decade in which other countries will be focusing on developing smart energy, not the same old ****.

[Rohirrim]

Generally, I was disappointed only because I expected epic rhetoric, something akin to "We few, we happy few, etc." But I do like the fact that first, he put out some of the nuts and bolts of where he wants to go, take it or leave it. He had the guts to bring up abortion and the 2nd amendment right out into the light. He went right into McCain's wheelhouse and the Right Wing Dirty Tricks department and called them out for their slimeball tactics. None of that Dukakis and Kerry wimpiness. He basically called out McCain and said, "Meet me in the alley, mofo." Not what I expected. Not real high on the visionary stuff, but you've got to give the man credit. He told the Right tonight, "Bring it on. Let's see if you have the guts to set aside the slime and go toe to toe on the issues." Of course, the response on the Right will be, slime, slime and more slime. Let's face it, the only thing they have left is fear mongering - their philosophy is bankrupt. I think Obama highlighted that for the country tonight.

[24champ]

He read the teleprompter pretty good I have to say...

[spdirty]

Dude, you are so full of ****. I'm sorry. First of all, his tax plan only effects small business owners that make over a certain amount.
I think that number is $250,000.

so we are suppose to sit on our asses and not work as hard to avoid getting into that tax bracket. Yeah, my company does about a half mil a year and has to spend about 4/5ths of that. So are we suppose to do less than half the work we do now to avoid getting hit? Brilliant! That should make the economy really roll!:sunshine:

[Spider]

I liked how he said we are the Party of Roosevelt we are the party of Kennedy. Then slammed the mistake Bush and his foreign policy.

actually , we need to get back to that , ask not what your country can do for you , but what you can do for your country ..... those words will always be in my memory ....And FDR the only thing we have to fear is fear itself

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Of course, the response on the Right will be, slime, slime and more slime. Let's face it, the only thing they have left is fear mongering - their philosophy is bankrupt. I think Obama highlighted that for the country tonight.

QFT.

We're already seeing it on this board tonight.

[Rohirrim]

well, he gets in, americans who make this country work will have to work even harder to overcome it.

Yeah, the Bush cabal has made it so easy for us. :rofl:

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I think that number is $250,000.

so we are suppose to sit on our asses and not work as hard to avoid getting into that tax bracket. Yeah, my company does about a half mil a year and has to spend about 4/5ths of that. So are we suppose to do less than half the work we do now to avoid getting hit? Brilliant! That should make the economy really roll!:sunshine:

Uh, study your american history and you know it actually will. It'll strenghen the middle class and the 90 percent that ISNT making money right now by giving them purchasing power. Yeah, cause trickle down economics and deregulation has worked so well the past 8 years. You guys keep forgetting that bush took the neocon agenda to the EXTREME!!!!!!!!!!! Obama is rolling it back to reagan tax rates...hardly roosevelt. Relax, you and your 250,000 wont be in the friggin poor house.

[Rigs11]

He read the teleprompter pretty good I have to say...

Alot better than mcsame did in his congratulatory ad that he ran. Did you see his eyes?:hitself:

[frerottenextelway]

Greatest speach of my lifetime.

How ridiculous is McCain going to look next week?

The deal is closed - Republicans know it - you could see it on Fox.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

actually , we need to get back to that , ask not what your country can do for you , but what you can do for your country ..... those words will always be in my memory ....And FDR the only thing we have to fear is fear itself

Exactly. Its about rebuilding a community and remembering we should take care of one another. I loved the part about republicans leaving people on their own....it was a very simple way of saying whats exactly true.

[Rigs11]

I loved the part about mcsames's definition of what a celebrity was. Classic!

[Rohirrim]

i'm hoping so, can't trust his candidate to do the right thing.....DRILL you fool...dman

If we drilled every single spot available to us we'd get oil enough for about five years. The effect of that volume would be infinitesimal on the price of gas and it wouldn't be available for years. If we don't get off the ME oil teat, our country is screwed.

[defenseman]

Dude, you are so full of ****. I'm sorry. First of all, his tax plan only effects small business owners that make over a certain amount. Second, his passion and his conviction shown through during this speech. It was just wonderfully crafted.

You need to get a clue son, same thing happened in the Clinton years. LOTS of small businesses went under. Second, I never said he did not deliver a good speech persay, he did. However, he was NOT correct on some of his facts, not even close. McCain needs to target him hard item by item, trust me, McCain knows where Obama is flat out being disengenious. Third, he cannot tell me he is the "new" style of politician, this classic, aka.....very classic old style democrat politics....dman

*Town hall debates would be much more affective, however, obama won't go near those. He won't be able to control the questions or get a left leaning media to help him out so he'll decline. Real answers to unrehearsed questions is just not strong suit, hand him a hat and cane is more his style..

[defenseman]

If we drilled every single spot available to us we'd get oil enough for about five years. The effect of that volume would be infinitesimal on the price of gas and it wouldn't be available for years. If we don't get off the ME oil teat, our country is screwed.


So you say, lots of experts disagree..dman

[Spider]

i'm hoping so, can't trust his candidate to do the right thing.....DRILL you fool...dman

If yo uhad been around , you would know my stance on Drilling , but off shore Drilling outside of section 181 and Brazil , off shore drilling wont do much , there is only 1 type of drilling that will save us ...Shale oil , n it is just about here

[SonOfLe-loLang]

You need to get a clue son, same thing happened in the Clinton years. LOTS of small businesses went under. Second, I never said he did not deliver a good speech persay, he did. However, he was NOT correct on some of his facts, not even close. McCain needs to target him hard item by item, trust me, McCain knows where Obama is flat out being disengenious. Third, he cannot tell me he is the "new" style of politician, this classic, aka.....very classic old style democrat politics....dman

*Town hall debates would be much more affective, however, obama won't go near those. He won't be able to control the questions or get a left leaning media to help him out so he'll decline. Real answers to unrehearsed questions is just not strong suit, hand him a hat and cane is more his style..

Are you really going to challenge Clinton's record on the economy? Is that the fight you want to pick right now?

Even the McCain statement sounded something pre-written. They know Obama killed that tonight.

And seriously, people who think the media leans left simply doesnt watch or read the news or simply has their head up their ass while they do.

[defenseman]

Greatest speach of my lifetime.

How ridiculous is McCain going to look next week?

The deal is closed - Republicans know it - you could see it on Fox.

You are young aren't you. Over? Not even close....dman

*It's a seven game series laddy, not a one game do or die.

[TailgateNut]

I think that number is $250,000.

so we are suppose to sit on our asses and not work as hard to avoid getting into that tax bracket. Yeah, my company does about a half mil a year and has to spend about 4/5ths of that. So are we suppose to do less than half the work we do now to avoid getting hit? Brilliant! That should make the economy really roll!:sunshine:


Well with those #s, you have no worries. 4/5th of $.5million equals 100k net. :spit:

[Spider]

So you say, lots of experts disagree..dman

No those are not experts , they are paid moth piece Roh is right , except for Shae oil , Shell is expected to announce a break through ... Shale oil is the only thing that will save us

[frerottenextelway]

He read the teleprompter pretty good I have to say...

One of the 2 candidates writes most of his own speeches, including this one.

[Rigs11]

So you say, lots of experts disagree..dman
Umm ...the governments own department of energy said that oil output would be minor. Where the hell do you get your info from?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

You are young aren't you. Over? Not even close....dman

*It's a seven game series laddy, not a one game do or die.

Yeah, its def far from over. On that we'll agree. I just still cant believe you'd like to continue our current path. It baffles me.

[Rohirrim]

Judging by Dman's posts, I want to put down another dollar on him as first Rightie to meltdown. ;D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I think that number is $250,000.


Wrong.

Try $603, 403 - $2.87 million.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/index.cfm

[frerottenextelway]

You are young aren't you. Over? Not even close....dman

*It's a seven game series laddy, not a one game do or die.

Somewhat, I go back to Reagan.

The numbers are so much in the Dems favor this year, all he needed to do was bring the base home and the numbers just aren't there for McCain. Obama went way beyond that. Barring something major, McCain will become Bob Dole from here on out.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Judging by Dman's posts, I want to put down another dollar on him as first Rightie to meltdown. ;D

Ha!

Obama is dman's and most other ditto heads' worst nightmare: a Democrat and a "__________" (insert 'N' word) in the WH.

[Rigs11]

Judging by Dman's posts, I want to put down another dollar on him as first Rightie to meltdown. ;D

In meltdown already, going apeshetHa!

[defenseman]

John McCain even admitted drilling off shore wont really do anything. He said it was for "psychological purposes". Read the times article on wind power from yesterday. Its all there for us if we pay for it. Go ahead, vote mccain and expect the same old bull****.

"TIMES"??????? Are you serious???????Get a clue, the times can't be trusted for much these days, shoddy left leaning articles is it's mantra...dman

[TailgateNut]

Wrong.

Try $603, 403 - $2.87 million.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/index.cfm



It wouldn't affect his company's finances anyway, if his net profits are at 100K.

[MrLaw2u]

No those are not experts , they are paid moth piece Roh is right , except for Shae oil , Shell is expected to announce a break through ... Shale oil is the only thing that will save us

whats shale oil? when they inject the steam into rock to get the oil out?

[gunns]

So much for for being above it all, he can sling mud with the best of them. Second, there is not a small business owner in the country right now not shaking in his or her boots, he gets in, their taxes double. Lastly, same ole democratic campaign speech, make the government bigger and bigger and bigger........and we get to pay for EVERYONE that wants to go to college, how nice you spending my money that way......same ole democrat, same ole story.....he's no different than the rest...except, he can deliver a speech even if half his statements were flat out wrong...dman

Then you must be sick of Bush. He's made government HUGE and is paying for everyone in a totally different country that has a surplus to their budget.

[jhat01]

He sold me tonight. I want something different, and you can't be afraid of the new. I want to see where he takes us.

[MrLaw2u]

wow you guys really go at it here more then in the football area. This is harder fought then in the trenches inside the 10 yrd line!!!!

[Rohirrim]

I think one of the strongest themes that Obama hit on tonight was: McCain = Backwards and it is nature of the American people to go forward. Whether the Right likes it or not, they must answer for the malfeasance of Bush. Obama will keep reminding the country that the Bush anchor is firmly chained to McCains wrinkly old ass. ;D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It wouldn't affect his company's finances anyway, if his net profits are at 100K.

Yep.

He's just slinging the usual right-wing disinfo, lies, and bullsh*t.

[TailgateNut]

Ha!

Obama is dman's and most other ditto heads' worst nightmare: a Democrat and a "__________" (insert 'N' word) in the WH.



If "he" were also a "she", Dman would implode like the sardine cans he used to go to sea in.

[defenseman]

Ha!

Obama is dman's and most other ditto heads' worst nightmare: a Democrat and a "__________" (insert 'N' word) in the WH.

You are about as disgusting as a human being could ever get. You'd pay hard if you had the guts to say that to my face, you would pay dearly.....dman

*Accuse a man of racism, when he knows he not, especially in the manner in which you delivered it, you are a disgrace to us all here on the mane, absolutely disgusting

[TailgateNut]

wow you guys really go at it here more then in the football area. This is harder fought then in the trenches inside the 10 yrd line!!!!

Put on your body armor, pads wont do in here.:~ohyah!:

[MrLaw2u]

Then you must be sick of Bush. He's made government HUGE and is paying for everyone in a totally different country that has a surplus to their budget.

I'm more sick of everyone being sick of Bush and blaming every little thing on him. The country has lost all confidence in the President and that in turn makes people have little hope that anything can be better until hes gone.

The country hasn't been this excited to see a new President since Carter vs Reagan. The main difference being that Carter had only completed one term.

What would have been interesting is if Bush was in first term and had approval ratings this low, would have repubs renominated him? Probably not he would lose every state IMO!!

[Spider]

whats shale oil? when they inject the steam into rock to get the oil out?

well no , they inject chemicals that heats up Kerogen ( sp? but I dont give a ****) I used to move oil drilling rigs , super compressors etc ...... most of it down in Pieceance Creek Colorado to Peters point outside of Debeque Colorado .....

[TailgateNut]

You are about as disgusting as a human being could ever get. You'd pay hard if you had the guts to say that to my face, you would pay dearly.....dman

*Accuse a man of racism, when he knows he not, especially in the manner in which you delivered it, you are a disgrace to us all here on the mane, absolutely disgusting


We know you see women as a lower lifeform.

[theAPAOps5]

So much for for being above it all, he can sling mud with the best of them. Second, there is not a small business owner in the country right now not shaking in his or her boots, he gets in, their taxes double. Lastly, same ole democratic campaign speech, make the government bigger and bigger and bigger........and we get to pay for EVERYONE that wants to go to college, how nice you spending my money that way......same ole democrat, same ole story.....he's no different than the rest...except, he can deliver a speech even if half his statements were flat out wrong...dman


Blah blah blah. You sound like Bush.

[Rigs11]

Then you must be sick of Bush. He's made government HUGE and is paying for everyone in a totally different country that has a surplus to their budget.

but..but..he's a fiscal conservativeHilarious!

[frerottenextelway]

wow you guys really go at it here more then in the football area. This is harder fought then in the trenches inside the 10 yrd line!!!!

Ehhh, this is like the old Bengals versus the 90's Broncos. It's just amusement in here - you learn real quick who is 2nd rate. !Booya!

[Spider]

You are about as disgusting as a human being could ever get. You'd pay hard if you had the guts to say that to my face, you would pay dearly.....dman

*Accuse a man of racism, when he knows he not, especially in the manner in which you delivered it, you are a disgrace to us all here on the mane, absolutely disgusting

For the record , I think you are an Idiot , but not a racist .....if that helps ;D

[jhat01]

This will be the first time in my life that I have voted Democrat for anything. If I stay registered republican, maybe my dad won't come back from the grave and haunt me in my sleep!

[defenseman]

Are you really going to challenge Clinton's record on the economy? Is that the fight you want to pick right now?

Even the McCain statement sounded something pre-written. They know Obama killed that tonight.

And seriously, people who think the media leans left simply doesnt watch or read the news or simply has their head up their ass while they do.

Same old democratic rhetoric which was delivered well, nothing more, nothing less. Get over yourselves. This one isn't close to being over, just getting started, especially if Obama grows a pair and takes McCain up on some town meeting invitations. I'll enjoy watching Obama talking ring around the question at every turn...dman

[MrLaw2u]

Put on your body armor, pads wont do in here.:~ohyah!:

the one guy calling the other racist seems a bit over the top. Is that normal? I'm just wondering what to expect? lol. I think maybe in this room being an independent might be the ticket.

[Rohirrim]

I think we should follow Obama's lead and not call each other racists.

[spdirty]

Relax, you and your 250,000 wont be in the friggin poor house.

3 seperate people paying seperate mortgages, material cost which usually takes up 40% of profits, vehicle payments, gas, actually, yes it will. And it definitely won't allow us to buy a warehouse/office. Won't allow us to hire workers (unless its illegals which we won't do). gonna have to move this company overseas just to stay in business.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Dman vs. Reality:

You need to get a clue son, same thing happened in the Clinton years. LOTS of small businesses went under.

# Under President Clinton's leadership, almost 6 million new jobs were created in the first two years of his Administration -- an average of 250,000 new jobs every month.
# In 1994, the economy had the lowest combination of unemployment and inflation in 25 years.
# As part of the 1993 Economic Plan, President Clinton cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on just 1.2 percent of the wealthiest taxpayers.
# President Clinton signed into law the largest deficit reduction plan in history, resulting in over $600 billion in deficit reduction. The deficit is going down for 3 years in a row for the first time since Harry Truman was president.

http://www.perkel.com/politics/clinton/accomp.htm

[MrLaw2u]

well no , they inject chemicals that heats up Kerogen ( sp? but I dont give a ****) I used to move oil drilling rigs , super compressors etc ...... most of it down in Pieceance Creek Colorado to Peters point outside of Debeque Colorado .....

ok yeah but they inject. Was maybe steam the old way? I remember reading about this.

I don't know about global warming this, or if oil is a waste of time now, what I do like about domestic oil is it puts Americans to work and we need that right now.

[defenseman]

He sold me tonight. I want something different, and you can't be afraid of the new. I want to see where he takes us.

Break out your checkbook and standby for 6-7 dollar a gallon gas, that is exactly where he will take us...dman

[Spider]

This will be the first time in my life that I have voted Democrat for anything. If I stay registered republican, maybe my dad won't come back from the grave and haunt me in my sleep!

Hey whats your overall feeling about Va ? I mean how will it swing ? is it in play ....... gotta love Jim Web .......good job

[theAPAOps5]

Yeah Bush had 8 years to make an impact and I don't think anyone can say this country is better off. Time for a change and I think Obama might be that.

[jhat01]

the one guy calling the other racist seems a bit over the top. Is that normal? I'm just wondering what to expect? lol. I think maybe in this room being an independent might be the ticket.


Its a favorite copout for everyone, from talking heads on tv, to talking schmucks in here. There's never been as many indy's in history as there is now lol

[W*GS]

Just remember, Obama is a politician.

Never forget that, and take it into account when he says anything.

Of course, we all know when a politician lies, don't we?

[Play2win]

Even PAT BUCHANAN (sp) loved the speech...

[jhat01]

Hey whats your overall feeling about Va ? I mean how will it swing ? is it in play ....... gotta love Jim Web .......good job

don't know, just moved here. But i have to think it's in play.

[theAPAOps5]

Same old democratic rhetoric which was delivered well, nothing more, nothing less. Get over yourselves. This one isn't close to being over, just getting started, especially if Obama grows a pair and takes McCain up on some town meeting invitations. I'll enjoy watching Obama talking ring around the question at every turn...dman

Obama will kill McCain because McCain is Bush v.2. I am a republican and I pray to god McCain loses. Its sad really you attack Obama for having zero substance but your whole attack is same old democratic rhetoric. I think the pot sure is calling the kettle black on this one.

[defenseman]

He sold me tonight. I want something different, and you can't be afraid of the new. I want to see where he takes us.

ALWAYS WATCH BOTH conventions. I've always done that, same ole stuff but helps me categorize obama as just another "INEXPERIENCED" democrat. Freaking babe in the woods, has no business being CIC....dman

[Spider]

ok yeah but they inject. Was maybe steam the old way? I remember reading about this. well they have tried several different ways , I am still excited about Co2 drilling , seems more streamline ....

I don't know about global warming this, or if oil is a waste of time now, what I do like about domestic oil is it puts Americans to work and we need that right now.
we do need to switch from Fossil fuels , but over time

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If "he" were also a "she", Dman would implode like the sardine cans he used to go to sea in.

No doubt.

Let's not pretend here: There are a lot of right-wing bubbas out there who would not vote for Obama simply because of race.

The polls prove this (if you need polls to prove such a thing.)

[theAPAOps5]

Bush had no business being CIC. He was essentially a babe in the woods. Whats your point?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Obama will kill McCain because McCain is Bush v.2. I am a republican and I pray to god McCain loses. Its sad really you attack Obama for having zero substance but your whole attack is same old democratic rhetoric. I think the pot sure is calling the kettle black on this one.

:yep: ^5

[USAFBronco]

This will be the first time in my life that I have voted Democrat for anything. If I stay registered republican, maybe my dad won't come back from the grave and haunt me in my sleep!


Go independent!

I hold no allegaince to a side...

Only the side that will truly put my countrymen and country 1st

But I'm with you, If he can actually do what he claims he'll do...

He will get my vote...

I'm glad he talked about the Military and promising to ensure they have the best equipment

[jhat01]

ALWAYS WATCH BOTH conventions. I've always done that, same ole stuff but helps me categorize obama as just another "INEXPERIENCED" democrat. Freaking babe in the woods, has no business being CIC....dman

I will. My thoughts are maybe "inexperience" is needed now. Notice the quotes. The "experience" of the white house has gotten us where we are today. We need something fresh imo. I want something different.

[DenverBrit]

Ha!

Obama is dman's and most other ditto heads' worst nightmare: a Democrat and a "__________" (insert 'N' word) in the WH.

You are a nasty piece of work.

YOU'RE the one being the racist and hiding behind a keyboard accusing others of thinking of the very word that apparently popped right into YOUR head. tsk tsk

[defenseman]

Obama will kill McCain because McCain is Bush v.2. I am a republican and I pray to god McCain loses. Its sad really you attack Obama for having zero substance but your whole attack is same old democratic rhetoric. I think the pot sure is calling the kettle black on this one.

HE has no substance whatsoever, I want him to give one straight answer, off the stage, without struggling to find the "correct" political spin for the answer, here's one, let's talk about abortion, that one was classic obama politics, finding the words he thinks "you" want to hear instead of just spitting out a position. We will all pay if he gets into office, dearly...dman

[MrLaw2u]

I think we should follow Obama's lead and not call each other racists.

use a word like that too much and it won't carry the significance society wants it to. It's just like the N word. You water down something that is supposed to be serious and you lose some of what blacks/whites have worked so hard for since Dr Kings speech.

Much of what gets classified as racism is just good ole fashioned prejudice. Prejudice can lead to racism but in itself it isn't racism.

Racism must be left for the overt acts where one race is saying we are superior, you are inferior. Blacks don't need to be protected from a crass joke or comment. Or even someone who doesn't like them because they are black.

They need protection from schools saying sorry we are full no openings. Jobs they are qualified for but can't get. Promotions they don't get because boss is a bigot etc. Loans they would otherwise qualify for being not given.

If you water down racism the word may not work when you need it.

[defenseman]

I will. My thoughts are maybe "inexperience" is needed now. Notice the quotes. The "experience" of the white house has gotten us where we are today. We need something fresh imo. I want something different.

Jimmy Carter II is where obama will take us...dman

[Rohirrim]

Just remember, Obama is a politician.

Never forget that, and take it into account when he says anything.

Of course, we all know when a politician lies, don't we?

It's part of the American character to hope for the emergence of a Mr. Smith. Usually, I'd agree with this sentiment, but that's being too cynical. Let me be cynical when his character fails, not before he has a chance to start. One of my favorite scenes in one of my favorite movies, Inherit the Wind, is when Spencer Tracy calls out the journalist (Gene Kelly) for his cynicism, because he gave nothing of himself, lost nothing, won nothing, and learned nothing.

[TailgateNut]

the one guy calling the other racist seems a bit over the top. Is that normal? I'm just wondering what to expect? lol. I think maybe in this room being an independent might be the ticket.

Expect nothing, but be prepared for anything.

[theAPAOps5]

Go independent!

I hold no allegaince to a side...

Only the side that will truly put my countrymen and country 1st

But I'm with you, If he can actually do what he claims he'll do...

He will get my vote...

I'm glad he talked about the Military and promising to ensure they have the best equipment

I agree I am a registered republican but feel my party has become too focused on religion and morality something that should be separate from government that I am going to switch to independent or better yet libertarian.

A vote for McCain is for the status quo good ole boy network that only benefits the minority. Its about time the majority step up and speak.

[W*GS]

No doubt.

Let's not pretend here: There are a lot of right-wing bubbas out there who would not vote for Obama simply because of race.

What do you call the people who will vote for Obama simply because of race?

[defenseman]

We know you see women as a lower lifeform.

Stop being stupid please, and, piling on is not one of your strong suits...dman

[defenseman]

What do you call the people who will vote for Obama simply because of race?

That would be a racist my friend...dman

[Spider]

Go independent!

I hold no allegaince to a side...

Only the side that will truly put my countrymen and country 1st

But I'm with you, If he can actually do what he claims he'll do...

He will get my vote...

I'm glad he talked about the Military and promising to ensure they have the best equipment

well lets face it , in todays world , our Military has to have the best , Imean look at th Military Clinton left Bush , rolled into and took over Baghdad in less then a week , the problem was nation building ........ I think everyone can agree 9-11 changed our world , Were most of us part company is Iraq

[theAPAOps5]

HE has no substance whatsoever, I want him to give one straight answer, off the stage, without struggling to find the "correct" political spin for the answer, here's one, let's talk about abortion, that one was classic obama politics, finding the words he thinks "you" want to hear instead of just spitting out a position. We will all pay if he gets into office, dearly...dman

We will pay more as in nuclear war and embarrassment if McCain and his war mongering get in office. I hope Obama stands up and says its not the governments right to dictate what a person does. Thats between him and his maker. So make abortion legal and let a person choose.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You are a nasty piece of work.

YOU'RE the one being the racist and hiding behind a keyboard accusing others of thinking of the very word that apparently popped right into YOUR head. tsk tsk

You're full of sh*t - as always.

If you don't realize that there are still people in America who use that word in reference to Obama and who wouldn't vote for him because of race, then you are more naive than I thought.

[W*GS]

It's part of the American character to hope for the emergence of a Mr. Smith. Usually, I'd agree with this sentiment, but that's being too cynical.

When it comes to national politics and the Presidency, one cannot be too cynical.

Let me be cynical when his character fails, not before he has a chance to start.

Obama is hardly a blank slate.

One of my favorite scenes in one of my favorite movies, Inherit the Wind, is when Spencer Tracy calls out the journalist (Gene Kelly) for his cynicism, because he gave nothing of himself, lost nothing, won nothing, and learned nothing.

A cynic is an optimist with the facts.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Jimmy Carter II is where obama will take us...dman


Dude, you are so goddamn far off. And for all your democratic hate (and by the way, the democratic playbook usually WORKS, look at history) you never once explain why you think McCain will be good. Can you honestly say the country is in good shape and headed for prosperous times with the current government? How can you honestly believe that. Your head is in your ass.

[MrLaw2u]

Just remember, Obama is a politician.

Never forget that, and take it into account when he says anything.

Of course, we all know when a politician lies, don't we?

you know what they call a politician that makes you think he's one of you?.....................

senator, congressman, Mr President!!!

I'm one of you, the other guy is not is the oldest strategy known to the country.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

When it comes to national politics and the Presidency, one cannot be too cynical.



Obama is hardly a blank slate.



A cynic is an optimist with the facts.



Dude, i hear ya, im a cynic too, but....you have to admit that was a presidential speech.

[Spider]

HE has no substance whatsoever, I want him to give one straight answer, off the stage, without struggling to find the "correct" political spin for the answer, here's one, let's talk about abortion, that one was classic obama politics, finding the words he thinks "you" want to hear instead of just spitting out a position. We will all pay if he gets into office, dearly...dman

Now you are just being a jack off ....... I know you are distressed , but knock the stupid **** off

[Rigs11]

Bush had no business being CIC. He was essentially a babe in the woods. Whats your point?

come on now he owned a baseball teamHa!

[W*GS]

Can you honestly say the country is in good shape and headed for prosperous times with the current government?

I said the same thing in 1980 to the folks who were plumping for a second term for Carter.

[theAPAOps5]

come on now he owned a baseball teamHa!

That he essentially drove to bankruptcy. but hey look where our country is now. Damn near bankrupt. Bush is a damn fine president. Damn fine at ****ing this country up.

[Rohirrim]

When it comes to national politics and the Presidency, one cannot be too cynical.



Obama is hardly a blank slate.



A cynic is an optimist with the facts.

It's also an optimist who has given up.

[jhat01]

I said the same thing in 1980 to the folks who were plumping for a second term for Carter.

I'd likt to know the answer to his question too. I had to ask myself that question and that's why I'm voting for obama.

[W*GS]

Dude, i hear ya, im a cynic too, but....you have to admit that was a presidential speech.

Didn't see more than a few seconds of it whilst channel surfing.

What makes Obama so special that folks are abandoning their tried, true, and correct cynicism?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

you know what they call a politician that makes you think he's one of you?.....................

senator, congressman, Mr President!!!

I'm one of you, the other guy is not is the oldest strategy known to the country.

Who is closer to being "one of you" in this instance?

A guy who worked his way up the food chain from poverty or a silver spooner who married a beer heiress?

[spdirty]

HE has no substance whatsoever, I want him to give one straight answer, off the stage, without struggling to find the "correct" political spin for the answer, here's one, let's talk about abortion, that one was classic obama politics, finding the words he thinks "you" want to hear instead of just spitting out a position. We will all pay if he gets into office, dearly...dman

Well, the answer to questions that pertain to abortion is above his pay grade.:unamused:

[theAPAOps5]

Well, the answer to questions that pertain to abortion is above his pay grade.:unamused:

Yeah coming from the guy who supports a guy so out of touch he can't even list how many homes he has. Yeah talk to me about pay grade. :spit:

[USAFBronco]

well lets face it , in todays world , our Military has to have the best , Imean look at th Military Clinton left Bush , rolled into and took over Baghdad in less then a week , the problem was nation building ........ I think everyone can agree 9-11 changed our world , Were most of us part company is Iraq

I wouldn't say Clinton left us that equipment, Most of our stuff is old and has been around for quite a while =P I'm too lazy to look up the facts, but I think Clinton actually cut some funding to the military(if I'm wrong let me know and link please :) ). We steam rolled them because we have the biggest, baddest and most powerful military this world has ever seen =P

[W*GS]

It's also an optimist who has given up.

No. I merely don't believe the President is the Messiah, regardless of who it is. I don't depend on The Leader to fix things - indeed, the absolute best we can hope for is a President who doesn't **** things up too badly.

[spdirty]

Yeah coming from the guy who supports a guy so out of touch he can't even list how many homes he has. Yeah talk to me about pay grade. :spit:

Dont even bring that stupid shlt up when Obama has Rezko. Sum bltch lives in a glass house, he shouldnt be throwing stones.

[Rigs11]

Well, the answer to questions that pertain to abortion is above his pay grade.:unamused:

The republican way: Oh noes.. abortion! Say no to abortion, we need all those soldiers to fight our wars based on greed and lies!

[W*GS]

I swear, reading you guys is like watching those old black-and-white films from the 50s of girls creaming their panties over Elvis.

Sheesh.

[USAFBronco]

I agree I am a registered republican but feel my party has become too focused on religion and morality something that should be separate from government that I am going to switch to independent or better yet libertarian.

A vote for McCain is for the status quo good ole boy network that only benefits the minority. Its about time the majority step up and speak.


That's why I can't ever actually relate to the Republican party, to me those are non issues, Do what you want in your personal life, leave it off the politcal table.

I've been told I'm a libertarian, but TBH, I don't know what I am, I don't like being tied into one school of thought, It's what, in my opinion, has drove this country apart and against each other.

[DenverBrit]

You're full of sh*t - as always.

If you don't realize that there are still people in America who use that word in reference to Obama and who wouldn't vote for him because of race, then you are more naive than I thought.

There are plenty of people who won't vote for Obama because of color. They would be racists.......Democrat, Republican or Independent.

But YOU'RE the one here, using the 'N' word attributing it to Republicans, and DMan in particular, and accusing them of being racist.

That evil little thought came from your head, not from anything written on this board.

[theAPAOps5]

Dont even bring that stupid shlt up when Obama has Rezko. Sum bltch lives in a glass house, he shouldnt be throwing stones.

Please you are calling him out why can't I call out your boytoy McCain. Dude is out of touch. Most politicians are but you can't single one out.

[Rohirrim]

Well, the answer to questions that pertain to abortion is above his pay grade.:unamused:

I believe the meaning of that response was that he honestly cannot answer the question, "When does life begin?" Neither can I. Neither can any honest person. That's why my personal take on the subject is you cannot make a decision to end life if you don't have all the facts.

[jhat01]

I wouldn't say Clinton left us that equipment, Most of our stuff is old and has been around for quite a while =P I'm too lazy to look up the facts, but I think Clinton actually cut some funding to the military(if I'm wrong let me know and link please :) ). We steam rolled them because we have the biggest, baddest and most powerful military this world has ever seen =P

Us Marines have had the hand-me-downs of the army and navy forever. It still cracks me up to see the **** my wife gets in the AF. Rolling into Iraq in open top and unarmored humvees was just plain lucky.

[spdirty]

Please you are calling him out why can't I call out your boytoy McCain. Dude is out of touch. Most politicians are but you can't single one out.

because both cancel each other out. And Romney is my boytoy. I cant stand McCain.

[theAPAOps5]

because both cancel each other out. And Romney is my boytoy. I cant stand McCain.

:notworthy

I love politics because you can disagree but still come up with funny ****. Have a good night hope there are no hard feelings about our debate!

[spdirty]

I believe the meaning of that response was that he honestly cannot answer the question, "When does life begin?" Neither can I. Neither can any honest person. That's why my personal take on the subject is you cannot make a decision to end life if you don't have all the facts.

Actually, if he doesnt believe it starts at conception (neither do I), the correct answer should be "at the very least 22 weeks."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/newsenglish/witn/2007/02/070221_baby.shtml

[Rohirrim]

No. I merely don't believe the President is the Messiah, regardless of who it is. I don't depend on The Leader to fix things - indeed, the absolute best we can hope for is a President who doesn't **** things up too badly.

Then no doubt you want to move as far away from Bush as you possibly can. I think a president can serve a very important function; He sets the tone for the country. I know my parents and grandparents were do deeply fond of FDR because when America was faced with its greatest threat we had a president who told them not to fear, but to work for success. IMO, since 911, nobody has been so filled with terror as Bush. And I think he has spread that tone over the country for 8 years. A new president will eliminate that tone of fear.

[Spider]

I wouldn't say Clinton left us that equipment, Most of our stuff is old and has been around for quite a while =P I'm too lazy to look up the facts, but I think Clinton actually cut some funding to the military(if I'm wrong let me know and link please :) ). We steam rolled them because we have the biggest, baddest and most powerful military this world has ever seen =P

well they all cut spending , I am sure you remember the Bradly fighting vehicle fiasco , after that things changed , but yes we do have the baddest Armed forces on the planet , no argument here , I like to see spendin on the military , But i dont like spending on projects like the Bradley ..... If a weapon system is superior and works , by all means every branch should have it , but spending like on star wars .... naw .. I hope you see where I am going on this ;D

[spdirty]

:notworthy

I love politics because you can disagree but still come up with funny ****. Have a good night hope there are no hard feelings about our debate!

Night dude. :welcome:

[USAFBronco]

Rolling into Iraq in open top and unarmored humvees was just plain lucky.


We rolled in with thoes under armored humvees because shock and awe simply broke their armies will to fight us...

Don't get me started on the terrible equipment they're having to make due with over there

[Broncobuddy7]

I wouldn't say Clinton left us that equipment, Most of our stuff is old and has been around for quite a while =P I'm too lazy to look up the facts, but I think Clinton actually cut some funding to the military(if I'm wrong let me know and link please :) ). We steam rolled them because we have the biggest, baddest and most powerful military this world has ever seen =P

You're not wrong, but not completely right either.

http://redblueamerica.com/truthornot/2008-01-25/did-bill-clinton-use-peace-dividend-gut-military-604

At Thursday's Republican debate in Florida, Rudy Giuliani said Bill Clinton had slashed the military by 30 percent as part of a post-Cold War "peace dividend:

And then, I believe there's a military aspect to it as well. I think we should increase the size of our military substantially to overcome the damage that Bill Clinton did with the peace dividend. Because when the two of you were talking about the military, what I wanted to jump in and say was, a lot of the cause of this was Bill Clinton's peace dividend, in which he cut the military 25 and 30 percent.

We've never redone or did up -- made up for that damage. We have to do that.

Politifact rates Giuliani's claim as "half-true":

Republicans are correct that military forces were reduced significantly under Clinton. The active-duty military totaled 1.8-million at the start of his presidency in 1993 and declined to 1.4-million in 2000. They are also correct that the naval fleet shrank dramatically. The Navy had 454 ships in 1993, but as vessels were retired and not replaced, the fleet was down to 341 by 2000.

But they are selectively choosing numbers that make it appear that the military cuts were Clinton’s alone. In fact, the cuts were prompted by the end of the Cold War during the presidency of President George H.W. Bush, a Republican.

During Bush's presidency, he and Congress agreed to a sharp drop in military personnel. Active-duty military declined from 2.2-million to 1.8-million. Total defense forces also shrank, from 3.3-million to 2.9-million.

[Spider]

You're not wrong, but not completely right either.

http://redblueamerica.com/truthornot/2008-01-25/did-bill-clinton-use-peace-dividend-gut-military-604

At Thursday's Republican debate in Florida, Rudy Giuliani said Bill Clinton had slashed the military by 30 percent as part of a post-Cold War "peace dividend:

And then, I believe there's a military aspect to it as well. I think we should increase the size of our military substantially to overcome the damage that Bill Clinton did with the peace dividend. Because when the two of you were talking about the military, what I wanted to jump in and say was, a lot of the cause of this was Bill Clinton's peace dividend, in which he cut the military 25 and 30 percent.

We've never redone or did up -- made up for that damage. We have to do that.

Politifact rates Giuliani's claim as "half-true":

Republicans are correct that military forces were reduced significantly under Clinton. The active-duty military totaled 1.8-million at the start of his presidency in 1993 and declined to 1.4-million in 2000. They are also correct that the naval fleet shrank dramatically. The Navy had 454 ships in 1993, but as vessels were retired and not replaced, the fleet was down to 341 by 2000.

But they are selectively choosing numbers that make it appear that the military cuts were Clinton’s alone. In fact, the cuts were prompted by the end of the Cold War during the presidency of President George H.W. Bush, a Republican.

During Bush's presidency, he and Congress agreed to a sharp drop in military personnel. Active-duty military declined from 2.2-million to 1.8-million. Total defense forces also shrank, from 3.3-million to 2.9-million.
Yeah they all do it , but some programs need cut

[USAFBronco]

You're not wrong, but not completely right either.

http://redblueamerica.com/truthornot/2008-01-25/did-bill-clinton-use-peace-dividend-gut-military-604

At Thursday's Republican debate in Florida, Rudy Giuliani said Bill Clinton had slashed the military by 30 percent as part of a post-Cold War "peace dividend:

And then, I believe there's a military aspect to it as well. I think we should increase the size of our military substantially to overcome the damage that Bill Clinton did with the peace dividend. Because when the two of you were talking about the military, what I wanted to jump in and say was, a lot of the cause of this was Bill Clinton's peace dividend, in which he cut the military 25 and 30 percent.

We've never redone or did up -- made up for that damage. We have to do that.

Politifact rates Giuliani's claim as "half-true":

Republicans are correct that military forces were reduced significantly under Clinton. The active-duty military totaled 1.8-million at the start of his presidency in 1993 and declined to 1.4-million in 2000. They are also correct that the naval fleet shrank dramatically. The Navy had 454 ships in 1993, but as vessels were retired and not replaced, the fleet was down to 341 by 2000.

But they are selectively choosing numbers that make it appear that the military cuts were Clinton’s alone. In fact, the cuts were prompted by the end of the Cold War during the presidency of President George H.W. Bush, a Republican.

During Bush's presidency, he and Congress agreed to a sharp drop in military personnel. Active-duty military declined from 2.2-million to 1.8-million. Total defense forces also shrank, from 3.3-million to 2.9-million.

I have watched the last part of that post happen throughout the AF, "Force Shaping" essisially asking to do more with less. I watched alot of freinds get kicked out of AFROTC for little nit pick stuff that I don't think would've happened 10-15 years ago. Pheunomia(sp?) when one was like 8 or nine and other stuff lol

[Play2win]

Go independent!

I hold no allegaince to a side...

Only the side that will truly put my countrymen and country 1st

But I'm with you, If he can actually do what he claims he'll do...

He will get my vote...

I'm glad he talked about the Military and promising to ensure they have the best equipment

I was Independent, BUT after this convention, I AM DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!

[spdirty]

I was Independent, BUT after this convention, I AM DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!

did Obama cause a tingle to run up your leg?

[Rigs11]

I swear, reading you guys is like watching those old black-and-white films from the 50s of girls creaming their panties over Elvis.

Sheesh.

and yet you're still here...go start a Barr thread or something..

[Play2win]

Jimmy Carter II is where obama will take us...dman

You couldn't be more wrong (even you...)

Have you ever heard of the Mexican War...

Lincoln Has.

[USAFBronco]

I was Independent, BUT after this convention, I AM DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!

Don't drown on the Kool-aid yet!

that's part of being independent, Gotta try to stay in the middle, who knows if the next democrat will be Obama-esque or more like Kerry...Who knows if the next republicain will be Bush or yet another innovative thinker...

I will remain independent simply so I dont feel a desire to vote for one person simply because of loyalty, But instead will vote on what is best for :USA:

[W*GS]

Then no doubt you want to move as far away from Bush as you possibly can.

Anyone who has witnessed the last 8 years and is not a cynic about the President is in denial.

I think a president can serve a very important function; He sets the tone for the country.

Snort. The President has one job and one job only - to fulfill his duties under the Constitution, and defend it. His "tone" (whatever the F that means) is irrelevant. We're all adults, and we don't need a Daddy in DC.

I know my parents and grandparents were do deeply fond of FDR because when America was faced with its greatest threat we had a president who told them not to fear, but to work for success.

Of course, FDR operated behind a veil of protection and secrecy that is no longer in place, partly because of him.

IMO, since 911, nobody has been so filled with terror as Bush. And I think he has spread that tone over the country for 8 years. A new president will eliminate that tone of fear.

How many people do you know who are fearful? I don't know any.

Bush (and Obama) can dangle boogeymen in front of me all day long, and I'll be most unimpressed.

[W*GS]

and yet you're still here...go start a Barr thread or something..

Why? I'm not going to vote for him, either. I don't care for right-wing hypocrites who rebrand themselves as LINOs...

[spdirty]

But instead will vote on what is best for :USA:

That means your a conservative.:welcome:

[Rigs11]

I was Independent, BUT after this convention, I AM DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome!A poll on msnbc "Are you more or less likely to vote for Barack Obama because of his acceptance speech?" 75% voted "more likely" so far:strong:

http://jeffblack.newsvine.com/_question/2008/08/28/1799304-are-you-more-or-less-likely-to-vote-for-barack-obama-because-of-his-acceptance-speech

[Rigs11]

Why? I'm not going to vote for him, either. I don't care for right-wing hypocrites who rebrand themselves as LINOs...

Who has your vote then? Staying home?

[W*GS]

Who has your vote then? Staying home?

I'll vote, just not for any of the current crap (excuse me, "crop") of candidates for President. Not a decent choice in the entire lot.

[ScottXray]

Jimmy Carter II is where obama will take us...dman
The weapons systems that won the first gulf war and put so much pressure on Soviet russia before her collapse were funded and started development by the Carter administration. As were the stealth technology F117s. They just weren't ready by the end of Carters term....hence the falilure of the rescue attempt of the Iran hsotages by broken down helicopters in the desert.

And Obama has already called for re-equipping the military and adding 3 divisions to the army and Marines on a permanent basis and not by using the NG. Something the Republicans have failed to do, while they looted the treasury by handing out contracts to third party suppliers and contractors.
And they have ruined the combat effectiveness of most of our standing army.

The Dems have never been weak on defense, although the Republicans are always quick to say so...standard Republican rhetoric and campaign speeches, just like the Liberal rhetoric you accuse the Dems of.

[kappys]

I'll vote, just not for any of the current crap (excuse me, "crop") of candidates for President. Not a decent choice in the entire lot.

Interesting. I plan on staying home but in Texas it hardly matters what I do.

I am thinking about researching the local candidates, haven't got around to it yet.

[Broncobuddy7]

I have watched the last part of that post happen throughout the AF, "Force Shaping" essisially asking to do more with less. I watched alot of freinds get kicked out of AFROTC for little nit pick stuff that I don't think would've happened 10-15 years ago. Pheunomia(sp?) when one was like 8 or nine and other stuff lol

I've been in the AF for 13 years now, and I've seen some of it too. Regardless of who's to blame it's pretty retarded. Before they were kicking people out and paying them to leave, now the gov't is paying crazy money for people to stay. My buddy is a Marine who is EOD. They just offered him 80k to reenlist. Ah, the power of foresight.

[ScottXray]

No. I merely don't believe the President is the Messiah, regardless of who it is. I don't depend on The Leader to fix things - indeed, the absolute best we can hope for is a President who doesn't **** things up too badly.
Obama addressed that too....He said that the People have to take the power into their own hands and change Washington, the change cannot come from him or from washington itself. He made no bones about it and said that not all is washingtons fault and people have to take responsibility for themselves and their own government.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That means your a conservative.:welcome:

We've had eight years to see what would happen if people like you controlled all branches of government - and the results have been disastrous.

[Play2win]

Don't drown on the Kool-aid yet!

that's part of being independent, Gotta try to stay in the middle, who knows if the next democrat will be Obama-esque or more like Kerry...Who knows if the next republicain will be Bush or yet another innovative thinker...

I will remain independent simply so I dont feel a desire to vote for one person simply because of loyalty, But instead will vote on what is best for :USA:

Wellllllllll..........


I have sacrificed much sleep in the last few days to watch EVERY speech that broadcasted...

I am a fiscal converative first, and a quality eduation second...

That is why, under the NEW democratic mesage, a DEMOCRAT...

I am a OBAMA DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[W*GS]

Obama addressed that too....He said that the People have to take the power into their own hands and change Washington, the change cannot come from him or from washington itself. He made no bones about it and said that not all is washingtons fault and people have to take responsibility for themselves and their own government.

The first thing we'd do if we were serious about that is to cut the size of government in half.

I gravely doubt Obama would like that.

The biggest problem is that the government (and not by the consent of the People, mind you, but from the putrid minds of bureaucrats and politicians) has insinuated itself into so many aspects of our lives that getting rid of its parasitism is going to be painful. Sorta like trying to get rid of an Alien that's got an appendage in your gut while wrapping its tail around your throat...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Don't drown on the Kool-aid yet!


Did you vote for Bush?

If you answered "yes," then please don't ever preach to anyone else about drinking Kool-Aid again. :welcome:

[gunns]

I'm more sick of everyone being sick of Bush and blaming every little thing on him. The country has lost all confidence in the President and that in turn makes people have little hope that anything can be better until hes gone.

The country hasn't been this excited to see a new President since Carter vs Reagan. The main difference being that Carter had only completed one term.

What would have been interesting is if Bush was in first term and had approval ratings this low, would have repubs renominated him? Probably not he would lose every state IMO!!

Hey don't blame me. I didn't vote for him either time. In 2000 all I could think was the apple probably doesn't fall far from the tree and by damn it didn't. And obviously most agreed with me. For those stupid enough to vote for him the second time, well you'll have to live with that....unfortunately you drug the rest of us down with you by your vote.

[USAFBronco]

Did you vote for Bush?

If you answered "yes," then please don't ever preach to anyone else about drinking Kool-Aid again. :welcome:

I actually Did not, I didn't vote for either...I'd like to say it was because of some deeply insightful reason, and that both canidates were weak,

But i just dropped the ball and didn't register here in NH when I moved up from Ma.( I wasnt able to vote for him the 1st time around..wasn't old enough :/ now you all know I'm a youngin)

[gunns]

Who knows if the next republicain will be Bush or yet another innovative thinker...


Hilarious! Where you been dude? You willing to find out? Do it on your own time, on your own planet. Sheesh


Bush (and Obama) can dangle boogeymen in front of me all day long, and I'll be most unimpressed.
__________________


You're such a special guy. Golly gee.

[W*GS]

You're such a special guy. Golly gee.

Politicians pose a far greater threat to us than terrorists do. That's why they need to be kept weak and at a great distance from our lives.

[USAFBronco]

Hilarious! Where you been dude? You willing to find out? Do it on your own time, on your own planet. Sheesh


Look at it within context...I didn't claim McCain would be the next good one...So you're saying if 8-12 years from now we have a young repub who's all about moving this country forward and the democrat canadiate is bleh...you'd stick with the Democrat?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yep - the Ken Lays of the world do a much better job of stewardship of the economy and looking out for the public good, right W*GS? :D

[W*GS]

I can always depend on you to make an asinine comparison, LABF.

Remember, Bush is a politician. Now reconsider your statement.

[gunns]

Look at it within context...I didn't claim McCain would be the next good one...So you're saying if 8-12 years from now we have a young repub who's all about moving this country forward and the democrat canadiate is bleh...you'd stick with the Democrat?

The context was the next Republican, you did not say good one....and that would be McCain. I can't even think 8-12 years down the road because we've got serious problems NOW. You bet I'd vote for the who I think is best for this country and my family. Right now that appears to be Obama.

[Pseudofool]

A fine, tough speech. It's sad that anyone gets distracted from that.

[Hogan11]

It was an excellent speech...I don't see how anything other than some type of Edwards gaff, can stop him now.

At the moment, I'll give him a chance. Barr has stolen the Libertarian Party and definitely doesn't represent anything I believe in and there's no way I can support the fake maverick McCain.

[elsid13]

Overall it was very good speech. Obama come off well spoken and presidential. I was surprise how direct he was on going after McCain, usually acceptance speech are as direct. But I can see the influence of Biden on Obama.

Would have like for it be more detailed policy based, but I am policy wonk.

[Play2win]

Overall it was very good speech. Obama come off well spoken and presidential. I was surprise how direct he was on going after McCain, usually acceptance speech are as direct. But I can see the influence of Biden on Obama.

Would have like for it be more detailed policy based, but I am policy wonk.

I thought It was probably the be speech I ever witnessed, including all of Bill Clintons-- Which, at the time, I thought were the best ever.

[elsid13]

I wouldn't say Clinton left us that equipment, Most of our stuff is old and has been around for quite a while =P I'm too lazy to look up the facts, but I think Clinton actually cut some funding to the military(if I'm wrong let me know and link please :) ). We steam rolled them because we have the biggest, baddest and most powerful military this world has ever seen =P

Bush Sr, and Clinton both reduce funding for DoD as part of the peace dividend. But all the technologies in place today were engineered during the Clinton years, just because it take to ****ing long in the acquisition process. Just like the budget decisions Rumsfeld and Gates management will provided the gear for the next 10 years.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You are about as disgusting as a human being could ever get. You'd pay hard if you had the guts to say that to my face, you would pay dearly.....dman

*Accuse a man of racism, when he knows he not, especially in the manner in which you delivered it, you are a disgrace to us all here on the mane, absolutely disgustingYeah, your views on minorities other than women (which you clearly view as inferior beings) aren't well known yet.

[BroncoInferno]

Break out your checkbook and standby for 6-7 dollar a gallon gas, that is exactly where he will take us...dman

You're an idiot. Obama couldn't be more clear about the fact that he is going to LOWER taxes on people making less than $250,000. For those making more than that, he is going to merely roll back the Bush giveaway...er, tax cuts, not tax them Soviet style. Stop listening to right wing radio and get a clue.

[Garcia Bronco]

You're an idiot. Obama couldn't be more clear about the fact that he is going to LOWER taxes on people making less than $250,000. For those making more than that, he is going to merely roll back the Bush giveaway...er, tax cuts, not tax them Soviet style. Stop listening to right wing radio and get a clue.

He was talking about gas in what you quoted. Not income tax.

[BroncoInferno]

Just remember, Obama is a politician.

Never forget that, and take it into account when he says anything.

Of course, we all know when a politician lies, don't we?

Wow. You are normally vociferous in your attacks against polticians. This was pretty lukewarm. Even you were impressed, it seems (at least relative to your normal rhetoric).

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You're an idiot. Obama couldn't be more clear about the fact that he is going to LOWER taxes on people making less than $250,000. For those making more than that, he is going to merely roll back the Bush giveaway...er, tax cuts, not tax them Soviet style. Stop listening to right wing radio and get a clue.

:yep:

Even when he is confronted with the facts, he just keeps on spewing the same right-wing propaganda, lies, and bullsh*t.

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/06/12/GR2008061200193.gif

The numbers originated from the Tax Policy Center (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/index.cfm) - a very highly respected independent and non-partisan group.

[W*GS]

Wow. You are normally vociferous in your attacks against polticians. This was pretty lukewarm. Even you were impressed, it seems (at least relative to your normal rhetoric).

No politician impresses me - they all disgust me. Keep reading.

I just wonder how disillusioned and bitter the folks who are having Obamagasms will be when he inevitably screws up.

[jhat01]

I wonder how many pro athletes will be voting for mccain, only because of that super high income.

[Garcia Bronco]

A fine, tough speech. It's sad that anyone gets distracted from that.

It was a tough speech. The only things I found ridiculous was things he blamed McCain for that he has nothing to do with.

[jhat01]

No politician impresses me - they all disgust me. Keep reading.

I just wonder how disillusioned and bitter the folks who are having Obamagasms will be when he inevitably screws up.

He will screw up something no doubt...There is no savior when it comes to politicians. Everybody screws up, all politicians are narcissistic. I just want us going in a different direction. How can anyone not want us to move in another direction?

[Garcia Bronco]

He will screw up something no doubt...There is no savior when it comes to politicians. Everybody screws up, all politicians are narcissistic. I just want us going in a different direction. How can anyone not want us to move in another direction?

I agree, but we need a short term energy solution and for governemnt to get out of the way of drilling while we prepare for other biofuels like hemp or switchgrass. Obama said he'd have energy independence in ten years. What about between now and then? Our entire infrastructure is built on oil. That can't change over night and 10 years is something he promised and he nor anyone will be able to deliver.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

How can anyone not want us to move in another direction?

If they are an oil company or a defense contractor? ;)



(Do I win anything?)

[BroncoInferno]

He was talking about gas in what you quoted. Not income tax.

How in the world is Obama going to make gas prices rise? That one had me so baffled I didn't even know how to respond. Especially given that oil men have been running the country and setting up their retirements for the last 8 years.

[W*GS]

He will screw up something no doubt...There is no savior when it comes to politicians. Everybody screws up, all politicians are narcissistic. I just want us going in a different direction. How can anyone not want us to move in another direction?

Depends on the direction. From what I've read, Obama will try to move us in the wrong direction, i.e., towards larger and more expensive and intrusive government. Don't forget that politicians campaign towards their extremes in their party primaries, then move towards the center during the general election, then often move back towards the extreme once they're elected. Clinton did that and so did Bush.

As a skeptic and a rational person, I refuse to accept the religious faith some are professing about Obama. He's a politician, ergo, he's a scumbag.

[BroncoInferno]

No politician impresses me - they all disgust me. Keep reading.

I just wonder how disillusioned and bitter the folks who are having Obamagasms will be when he inevitably screws up.

I know he'll screw up. All human beings do. I am a bit of a cynic, but not nearly to the level as you. You once told me that there wasn't even one single local politician you had any respect for. That is too cynical for me. I still believe there are folks who honestly want to help the country (or community depending on the level). They won't always be right about the issues and will misstep at times, but there is something to respect in the effort. I think Biden is such a man. You may not agree with his stances on issues, but the man is clearly honest and wants the best for this country. I think the same of Obama.

[jhat01]

I agree, but we need a short term energy solution and for governemnt to get out of the way of drilling while we prepare for other biofuels like hemp or switchgrass. Obama said he'd have energy independence in ten years. What about between now and then? Our entire infrastructure is built on oil. That can't change over night and 10 years is something he promised and he nor anyone will be able to deliver.

I envision, an Apollo'esque type of movement. Now, that's probably a fairytale but I can dream! lol. No I think we should drill what we can out of here too. Hell, I'm an investor in Western Standard, I WANT them to pump some oil out of Bakken. If we were to get off the tit in 10 years, it would be the greatest accomplishment of all time.

[Garcia Bronco]

How in the world is Obama going to make gas prices rise? That one had me so baffled I didn't even know how to respond. Especially given that oil men have been running the country and setting up their retirements for the last 8 years.

Wait. Are you telling me the President doesn't have control over the price of a barrel of oil?

[BroncoInferno]

Wait. Are you telling me the President doesn't have control over the price of a barrel of oil?

It depends. They can't control it per se, but they can have a major influence on it. Especially when they are life long oil men with cronies to buy off and retirements to establish. Obama has no such entaglements as the previous administration has.

[Garcia Bronco]

It depends. They can't control it per se, but they can have a major influence on it. Especially when they are life long oil men with cronies to buy off and retirements to establish. Obama has no such entaglements as the previous administration has.

The President doesn't really have control over the price of oil, but if we don't increase our domestic oil supply by short term drilling then it doesn't matter who is President or what they do. Our entire infrastructure is built on oil from the roads, vehicles, and the fuel that runs them. Every piece of plastic is made from petro.

[BroncoInferno]

The President doesn't really have control over the price of oil, but if we don't increase our domestic oil supply by short term drilling then it doesn't matter who is President or what they do. Our entire infrastructure is built on oil from the roads, vehicles, and the fuel that runs them. Every piece of plastic is made from petro.

The president can establish policy that makes things easier and more profitable for oil men. We know the previous administration has such entaglements. Obama doesn't. That is what made dmans statement so absurd.

[Garcia Bronco]

The president can establish policy that makes things easier and more profitable for oil men. We know the previous administration has such entaglements. Obama doesn't. That is what made dmans statement so absurd.


If we don't increase local supply yesterday we will see greater costs at the pump.

[Rohirrim]

Anyone who has witnessed the last 8 years and is not a cynic about the President is in denial.



Snort. The President has one job and one job only - to fulfill his duties under the Constitution, and defend it. His "tone" (whatever the F that means) is irrelevant. We're all adults, and we don't need a Daddy in DC.



Of course, FDR operated behind a veil of protection and secrecy that is no longer in place, partly because of him.



How many people do you know who are fearful? I don't know any.

Bush (and Obama) can dangle boogeymen in front of me all day long, and I'll be most unimpressed.

Congratulations! Your cynicism is impenetrable. You have attained Libertarian Nirvana.
:peace:

[Rohirrim]

The first thing we'd do if we were serious about that is to cut the size of government in half.

I gravely doubt Obama would like that.

The biggest problem is that the government (and not by the consent of the People, mind you, but from the putrid minds of bureaucrats and politicians) has insinuated itself into so many aspects of our lives that getting rid of its parasitism is going to be painful. Sorta like trying to get rid of an Alien that's got an appendage in your gut while wrapping its tail around your throat...

From what he said, we can't go into the 21st century dragging a "20th century bureaucracy." Given that the last person to really cut away bureaucracy in Washington was Al Gore (Bush since has added multiple layers) I'll take the Dem's word on this one over the Repugs.

[Drek]

I think that number is $250,000.

so we are suppose to sit on our asses and not work as hard to avoid getting into that tax bracket. Yeah, my company does about a half mil a year and has to spend about 4/5ths of that. So are we suppose to do less than half the work we do now to avoid getting hit? Brilliant! That should make the economy really roll!:sunshine:

What kind of business do you run/own?

Because Obama's plan calls for capital gains tax exemptions for small businesses, and also gives a significantly enlarged tax deduction for providing your employees with health insurance.

So if you look at the supplied table in this thread, a company making ~$500K would see ZERO increase in income taxes, but see significant discounts on health coverage and also be able to avoid all capital gains taxes.

How isn't that directly helping you?

If you do eventually grow to break $600K per year of taxable income you'll then see about an 8.7% increase over what the current tax bracket hits that income with. But is that 8.7% enough to off-set the significant gains for most companies when you can avoid capital gains taxes, and just how legitimately high is that ceiling when your tax write offs for health care will significantly increase?

And FYI, that is a 20% increase before you see an additional 8.7% bump in taxes. So its not like you aren't still seeing growth and profit.

Legitimately your company would need SIGNIFICANT growth before you'd see a real negative effect from Obama's tax plan. Until then though you'll receive a nice bit of help, to get you up to that level. So what is your problem?

[Rohirrim]

Politicians pose a far greater threat to us than terrorists do. That's why they need to be kept weak and at a great distance from our lives.

Yeah. I'm worried that any day a politician will fly a jet into the building where I'm working.

[Rohirrim]

No politician impresses me - they all disgust me. Keep reading.

I just wonder how disillusioned and bitter the folks who are having Obamagasms will be when he inevitably screws up.

Interesting point. I am currently reading a few books on Lincoln. You're right. It's amazing how many times he screwed up. However, the overall effect turned out alright. It's a shame that a man like Lincoln would disgust you. I find his story inspiring. Maybe that's what this election will come down to, the positive vs. the negative?

[Rohirrim]

If we don't increase local supply yesterday we will see greater costs at the pump.

What if we switch a lot of our technologies, including cars, over to ng?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Interesting point. I am currently reading a few books on Lincoln. You're right. It's amazing how many times he screwed up. However, the overall effect turned out alright. It's a shame that a man like Lincoln would disgust you. I find his story inspiring. Maybe that's what this election will come down to, the positive vs. the negative?

I think W*GS just has daddy issues and/or problems with authority figures. ;)

[Drek]

If we don't increase local supply yesterday we will see greater costs at the pump.

We can't increase production "yesterday".

Fact is, Bush sat on his thumb about all this when he had a GOP majority in the senate, and now they cry about the dems standing in their way.

By the time we'd see returns on ANWR or off shore we could instead have wind and solar taking its place.

The timeframe for drilling and nuclear is too far off now. They should've been bridges implemented late last century and early this one, but Clinton and Bush didn't get off their asses and do it. Now its worthless because the real alternative that they would bridge to, renewables like wind and solar, can be realized in the exact same time frame.

So why now go with the bridge when we can just leapfrog it in the same amount of time?

[W*GS]

I know he'll screw up. All human beings do. I am a bit of a cynic, but not nearly to the level as you. You once told me that there wasn't even one single local politician you had any respect for. That is too cynical for me. I still believe there are folks who honestly want to help the country (or community depending on the level).

If so, why are they politicians? The guy who starts a business, employs people, and provides a service or product to customers does more good than any number of politicians.

They won't always be right about the issues and will misstep at times, but there is something to respect in the effort. I think Biden is such a man. You may not agree with his stances on issues, but the man is clearly honest and wants the best for this country. I think the same of Obama.

I disagree. "Honest politician" is like "married bachelor" - an oxymoron.

[W*GS]

Congratulations! Your cynicism is impenetrable. You have attained Libertarian Nirvana.

Like I said, if you're not a cynic about the President after the last 8 years, your touching faith is indeed impenetrable and immune to facts and reason...

[Rohirrim]

Like I said, if you're not a cynic about the President after the last 8 years, your touching faith is indeed impenetrable and immune to facts and reason...

I've got two dogs. One is a dope. The other is pretty smart. I never confuse the two.

[W*GS]

Yeah. I'm worried that any day a politician will fly a jet into the building where I'm working.

Nah - they and their Evil Masters will simply rig it with explosives in such a fashion that you and your co-workers won't notice, and then when the plane (which is under their remote control) hits, and after a suitable time has passed, they'll detonate those explosives and destroy your building.

[W*GS]

I think W*GS just has daddy issues and/or problems with authority figures.

You're still sucking away on Big Mommy's teat... Socialism is a kind of infantilism, and nothing you've written shows me otherwise.

[W*GS]

Interesting point. I am currently reading a few books on Lincoln. You're right. It's amazing how many times he screwed up. However, the overall effect turned out alright. It's a shame that a man like Lincoln would disgust you. I find his story inspiring. Maybe that's what this election will come down to, the positive vs. the negative?

Lincoln, by the way he prosecuted the civil war, just about destroyed the concept of a federal government and created a national government, which was finally emplaced by FDR.

I don't see much in the way of positives in either Obama or McCain.

[W*GS]

I've got two dogs. One is a dope. The other is pretty smart. I never confuse the two.

Yet they both still **** on the carpet, don't they?

[W*GS]

I think W*GS just has daddy issues and/or problems with authority figures.

You of all people ought to know to distrust authority.

[Rohirrim]

Yet they both still **** on the carpet, don't they?

Not if they want to live.

[TailgateNut]

I've got two dogs. One is a dope. The other is pretty smart. I never confuse the two.

There's a pattern. Same in my back yard. One is a genius (he listens and learns), Let's call him Obama,and one dumbass (never listens and never learns, just does stupid **** over and over, even after being put in the pen as punishment)let's call him Bush. ;)

[W*GS]

Not if they want to live.

Can't apply the same technique to politicians and bureaucrats. Usually.

[Rohirrim]

Can't apply the same technique to politicians and bureaucrats. Usually.

Ted Stevens up in Alaska is under indictment and just won his primary. It's the voice of the people. ROFL!

[Garcia Bronco]

We can't increase production "yesterday".

Fact is, Bush sat on his thumb about all this when he had a GOP majority in the senate, and now they cry about the dems standing in their way.

By the time we'd see returns on ANWR or off shore we could instead have wind and solar taking its place.

The timeframe for drilling and nuclear is too far off now. They should've been bridges implemented late last century and early this one, but Clinton and Bush didn't get off their asses and do it. Now its worthless because the real alternative that they would bridge to, renewables like wind and solar, can be realized in the exact same time frame.

So why now go with the bridge when we can just leapfrog it in the same amount of time?

So you are telling me we could get oil out of the ground in a year provided the exploration has already been completd? Why?

We have people that have notes on vehicles and vehicles that need cheap oil for the next 100-15 years? We have to have a solution between now and then for starters

[jsco70]

To me, one of the best points of Obama's speech was how he would listen to opposing points of view and maybe disagree, but he would never question a person's (McCain's) patriotism.

Whether it's politics, religion or a Broncos forum, too many people are completely closed minded when it comes to debate. Opposing viewpoints are characterized as "ignorant", "stupid", "unpatriotic" and similar variations.

I fully support Obama - Biden and look forward to their victory.

[W*GS]

Whether it's politics, religion or a Broncos forum, too many people are completely closed minded when it comes to debate. Opposing viewpoints are characterized as "ignorant", "stupid", "unpatriotic" and similar variations.

Some viewpoints are indeed ignorant and/or stupid.

It's kinda like saying "There's no such thing as a stupid question". Yes, there is.

[TailgateNut]

To me, one of the best points of Obama's speech was how he would listen to opposing points of view and maybe disagree, but he would never question a person's (McCain's) patriotism.

Whether it's politics, religion or a Broncos forum, too many people are completely closed minded when it comes to debate. Opposing viewpoints are characterized as "ignorant", "stupid", "unpatriotic" and similar variations.

I fully support Obama- Biden and look forward to their nomination.


DUDE, they've already been NOMINATED!

[CasinoRoyal]

The speach last night was great though.

[jsco70]

DUDE, they've already been NOMINATED!

Whoops. My mistake. I was in a rush to post. :dummy:

[Rohirrim]

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e258/BroncosWorld/crack-1-1.jpg

WUWD? Are they doing a 21st century remake of Fat Albert? ;D

[CasinoRoyal]

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e258/BroncosWorld/crack-1-1.jpg

WUWD? Are they doing a 21st century remake of Fat Albert? ;D

:rofl: It took me a while to get what you were talking about.

That was a nice one.

[jsco70]

Some viewpoints are indeed ignorant and/or stupid.

It's kinda like saying "There's no such thing as a stupid question". Yes, there is.

Obviously there are some viewpoints on many topics that are indeed ignorant. That isn't really a newsflash. My point is, in my opinion, people are less tolerant of opposing viewpoints than ever before. Obama is looking to change this and I applaud him for it.

[Bronco Bob]

So much for for being above it all, he can sling mud with the best of them. Second, there is not a small business owner in the country right now not shaking in his or her boots, he gets in, their taxes double.

Or vote for McCain and lose your business altogether.
That's what the Republicans don't tell you, you need
a job to pay taxes. Naturally if your job is shipped to
China or India you will pay less in taxes. No income =
no income tax.

[Bronco Bob]

You need to get a clue son, same thing happened in the Clinton years. LOTS of small businesses went under.



But by far a lot more were created and a lot more jobs were created
with existing companies. Companies were so desperate for workers,
if you could breath, you were hired. Even if you couldn't, it could
be negotiated.

And are you going to sit there and claim a lot more companies haven't
went under with Dubya in the WH, and a lot more people haven't
lost their jobs?

[Bronco Bob]

Break out your checkbook and standby for 6-7 dollar a gallon gas, that is exactly where he will take us...dman

Actually it could well be that oil prices take a sharp drop with Obama.
Here's the reason why. A Democrat will be more likely to push for
alternative energy sources. What better way for the oil companies
to put the brakes on that than to lower oil prices. It's happened
before. I remember back in the 70's when gas hit a $1 a gallon.
People were freaking out, dumping their big cars and buying Toyotas.
A Democrat came in, people started to conserve, alternative
energy sources were looked at, and the oil companies dropped
the price and people started going back to the gas guzzlers
and all the plans for alternative evergy were dropped.
Same thing happened in the 90's, a Democrat in the WH, gas got
cheap, people bought monster SUVs, Republicans came in, gas
went up. If you want $6-7 gas, vote for McCain.

[Bronco Bob]

Dont even bring that stupid shlt up when Obama has Rezko. Sum bltch lives in a glass house, he shouldnt be throwing stones.

And McCain has Charles Keating. Keating trumps Rezco.
Or are you too young to remember the Keating Five?

[Bronco Bob]

The first thing we'd do if we were serious about that is to cut the size of government in half.

I gravely doubt Obama would like that.




Obama did speak of cutting government agencies that are no longer needed.

[mhgaffney]

I didn't see/hear Obama's speech -- but his sslection of Biden told me everything I needed to know.

This tells me Obama is not serious about ending the war. Biden supported Bush's war policy in 2002-2003 -- and he is a poster child for Dow Chemical and the other military corporations that dominate the state of Delaware-- and use it for a post box.

Biden long ago sold whatever remained of his soul.

The Democraps recycled a guy who had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 -- when Biden had to admit he lied about his record in law school. He also admitted plagiarizing material.

That disqualified him in 1988 -- to run for president. By any reasonable standard -- it should have disqualified him PERMANENTLY.

But evidently our political culture is now so corrupt, confused and out of whack that the Dems have forgotten 1988. They are telling us Biden has "gravitas."

If you believe that nonsense you will believe anything.

The perfect VP choice was Sam Nunn, a former Senator -- from Georgia -- who is an expert on the US military and nuclear policies. Nunn was one of the few to correctly see that Clinton's policy of expanding NATO into eastern Europe was a disaster waiting to happen. Nunn spoke out at the time -- and as recent events have shown -- he was right.

Nunn has true gravitas -- but American politics today is so broken -- that facts and truth don't count any more. They once did -- in the time of JFK -- but the powers that be executed JFK because he tried to end the Cold War

and every US president since then has been under the thumb of the bankers (Fed Reserve) and corporate big wigs who rule our nation.

This includes Obama and McCain.

Obama proved this by picking Biden. So this Nov we will have a choice between an insane warmonger in McCain or a slightly more low key version of the above in Obama.

The difference between Obama dn McCain is very small. IF Oregon goes heavily to Obama -- as I expect will happen -- I will consider casting a protest vote for Nader or some other progressive.

MHG

[mhgaffney]

I didn't see/hear Obama's speech -- but his sslection of Biden told me everything I needed to know.

This tells me Obama is not serious about ending the war. Biden supported Bush's war policy in 2002-2003 -- and he is a poster child for Dow Chemical and the other military corporations that dominate the state of Delaware-- and use it for a post box.

Biden long ago sold whatever remained of his soul.

The Democraps recycled a guy who had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 -- when Biden had to admit he lied about his record in law school. He also admitted plagiarizing material.

That disqualified him in 1988 -- to run for president. By any reasonable standard -- it should have disqualified him PERMANENTLY.

But evidently our political culture is now so corrupt, confused and out of whack that the Dems have forgotten 1988. They are telling us Biden has "gravitas."

If you believe that nonsense you will believe anything.

The perfect VP choice was Sam Nunn, a former Senator -- from Georgia -- who is an expert on the US military and nuclear policies. Nunn was one of the few to correctly see that Clinton's policy of expanding NATO into eastern Europe was a disaster waiting to happen. Nunn spoke out at the time -- and as recent events have shown -- he was right.

Nunn has true gravitas -- but American politics today is so broken -- that facts and truth don't count any more. They once did -- in the time of JFK -- but the powers that be executed JFK because he tried to end the Cold War

and every US president since then has been under the thumb of the bankers (Fed Reserve) and corporate big wigs who rule our nation.

This includes Obama and McCain.

Obama proved this by picking Biden. So this Nov we will have a choice between an insane warmonger in McCain or a slightly more low key version of the above in Obama.

The difference between Obama dn McCain is very small. IF Oregon goes heavily to Obama -- as I expect will happen -- I will consider casting a protest vote for Nader or some other progressive.

MHG

[Bronco Bob]

If we don't increase local supply yesterday we will see greater costs at the pump.

You need to think outside the box. For example, plug in cars.
If you are running your car off electricity generated by a wind
turbine, who cares if a gallon of gasoline costs $10,000?
That's where we should be moving instead of wasting
time drilling drop in the bucket offshore oil wells.

[defenseman]

Obama did speak of cutting government agencies that are no longer needed.

WHICH ONES? WHICH ONES? WHICH ONES? He CANNOT and WILL NOT answer that question. If McCain made the same statement Obama did, He'd know EXACTLY who and where he would make his cuts. Obama, has NO IDEA. This will hurt Mr. "hat and can" and it will catch up with him....dman

*I'll be decked if he agrees to town hall meetings, he'd have to answer REAL questions, from the average joe, with an unrehearsed answer. He quite simply is not very good at being frank and honest. Always searching for the "politically correct" answer. It will hurt him.

[baja]

Generally, I was disappointed only because I expected epic rhetoric, something akin to "We few, we happy few, etc." But I do like the fact that first, he put out some of the nuts and bolts of where he wants to go, take it or leave it. He had the guts to bring up abortion and the 2nd amendment right out into the light. He went right into McCain's wheelhouse and the Right Wing Dirty Tricks department and called them out for their slimeball tactics. None of that Dukakis and Kerry wimpiness. He basically called out McCain and said, "Meet me in the alley, mofo." Not what I expected. Not real high on the visionary stuff, but you've got to give the man credit. He told the Right tonight, "Bring it on. Let's see if you have the guts to set aside the slime and go toe to toe on the issues." Of course, the response on the Right will be, slime, slime and more slime. Let's face it, the only thing they have left is fear mongering - their philosophy is bankrupt. I think Obama highlighted that for the country tonight.


Obama with that wonderful speech backed McCain & the repugs into a corner and did it with with grace and dignity. This election will define the future of America. If we do not elect Obama over McCain after that speech than either Americans have lost their identity or DieBolt has the ability to fix the election. Either way McCain will be the end of America as we have know it while there is a glimmer of hope with Obama.

This is the most important election of my life time

[Garcia Bronco]

You need to think outside the box. For example, plug in cars.
If you are running your car off electricity generated by a wind
turbine, who cares if a gallon of gasoline costs $10,000?
That's where we should be moving instead of wasting
time drilling drop in the bucket offshore oil wells.

Sure BUT.... You have to do both, but non-electric cars will still be on the road. With most car owners upside-down on loans it make sense to have a short term solution. Drilling and increasing local supply. We have to make a smooth transfer. Don't you care about all Americans?

[Garcia Bronco]

Obama did speak of cutting government agencies that are no longer needed.

I liked that part of his speech.

[baja]

Greatest speach of my lifetime.

How ridiculous is McCain going to look next week?

The deal is closed - Republicans know it - you could see it on Fox.

I concur, greatest political speech in many a moon. After 8 years of Bush I teared up a few times listing to Obama last night. He gave me hope!

[baja]

"TIMES"??????? Are you serious???????Get a clue, the times can't be trusted for much these days, shoddy left leaning articles is it's mantra...dman

Dman it is funny to watch you grasp at straws.

[baja]

I think one of the strongest themes that Obama hit on tonight was: McCain = Backwards and it is nature of the American people to go forward. Whether the Right likes it or not, they must answer for the malfeasance of Bush. Obama will keep reminding the country that the Bush anchor is firmly chained to McCains wrinkly old ass. ;D

It's nice to see you warming up to Obama - his speech last night got me to, I'm in. I was going to vote for Obama mainly because of my fear of a McCain presidency but now I am looking forward to seeing what this charismatic brilliant young man can do

[baja]

For the record , I think you are an Idiot , but not a racist .....if that helps ;D

Dman reminds me of a comment Obama about McCain, he said John McCain is not a bad man just an out of touch man.

[baja]

This will be the first time in my life that I have voted Democrat for anything. If I stay registered republican, maybe my dad won't come back from the grave and haunt me in my sleep!

I commend you on your vision. We need hope now, that is what will lead to real change. We got a chance with Obama and no chance with McCain.

[baja]

Same old democratic rhetoric which was delivered well, nothing more, nothing less. Get over yourselves. This one isn't close to being over, just getting started, especially if Obama grows a pair and takes McCain up on some town meeting invitations. I'll enjoy watching Obama talking ring around the question at every turn...dman

John McCain is a good American but he will not be a good president, in fact the country can not take 4 years of McCain with his affinity for GWB's policies.

[baja]

Break out your checkbook and standby for 6-7 dollar a gallon gas, that is exactly where he will take us...dman

That is going to happen anyway WE NEED A REAL ALTERNATIVE ENERGY PLAN.


...And it ain't drill dude!

[baja]

ALWAYS WATCH BOTH conventions. I've always done that, same ole stuff but helps me categorize obama as just another "INEXPERIENCED" democrat. Freaking babe in the woods, has no business being CIC....dman

Did you listen to his speech, just curious?

[spdirty]

I concur, greatest political speech in many a moon. After 8 years of Bush I teared up a few times listing to Obama last night. He gave me hope!

your gonna be crying again November 4.

[baja]

It's part of the American character to hope for the emergence of a Mr. Smith. Usually, I'd agree with this sentiment, but that's being too cynical. Let me be cynical when his character fails, not before he has a chance to start. One of my favorite scenes in one of my favorite movies, Inherit the Wind, is when Spencer Tracy calls out the journalist (Gene Kelly) for his cynicism, because he gave nothing of himself, lost nothing, won nothing, and learned nothing.

Exactly!

It's either McSame or give the kid a chance. He has proved he is worth a shot. I think he just might be a great president God knows we need that in this 11th hour.

[baja]

your gonna be crying again November 4.

If Mccain wins I will go hunker down on my ranch in Baja

If Obama wins I will willingly do my part to return this country to it's greatness. Obama is right America is the world's last best hope.

[baja]

That would be a racist my friend...dman

Wow W*GS has a friend...

[baja]

come on now he owned a baseball teamHa!

And talk about talent, how do you bankrupt a national pass time?

[baja]

Didn't see more than a few seconds of it whilst channel surfing.

What makes Obama so special that folks are abandoning their tried, true, and correct cynicism?

Who are you voting for W*GS?

[baja]

<b>Didn't see more than a few seconds of it whilst channel surfing.</b>

What makes Obama so special that folks are abandoning their tried, true, and correct cynicism?

Than you have no business on this thread.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Dman it is funny to watch you grasp at straws.

Ha!

He's been a consistent laughing stock while grasping at straws in his attempts to cover Bush's flank - now he's providing us with even more quality comedy in his efforts to make a silk purse out of the sow's ass that is McSame. :D

[baja]

He will screw up something no doubt...There is no savior when it comes to politicians. Everybody screws up, all politicians are narcissistic. I just want us going in a different direction.<b> How can anyone not want us to move in another direction?

That's a very good question.

[Drek]

Sure BUT.... You have to do both, but non-electric cars will still be on the road. With most car owners upside-down on loans it make sense to have a short term solution. Drilling and increasing local supply. We have to make a smooth transfer. Don't you care about all Americans?

That isn't a short term solution.

All these new places McCain is talking about pushing, OCS and now with Palin I'm sure ANWR will be on the docket, have basically ZERO research done to set them up. We're talking 5-7 years before we see a drop of oil from them and 10-15 minimum before we can expect any real production.

That isn't short term. In 10 years Obama's energy plan, which is shockingly feasible and grounded in the real world, would replace all of the oil currently used for energy production other than combustion engines and at the same time dramatically increase fuel efficiency and replace more and more combustion engines every year with electrics.

He also has been calling out big oil on actually drilling where they can get some quick results, the 68 million acres of land we've already leased them that they haven't drilled on yet.

McCain is offering false promises that the average person just doesn't have the ambition to look behind the curtain on, fueled by lobbyist agendas. Obama is giving straight talk direct from scientists and industry experts.

McCain says we need to end dependency on foreign oil. How the hell we gonna do that when at max production ANWR and OCS (talking ~15 years from now) will only contribute roughly 3% of the world's oil. We use 25%. I'm sorry but those numbers just don't jive and at the same time he pays only tepid lip service to actually building renewables and green alternatives. His energy policy won't do anything to bring prices down and every year we'll be one step closer to our own reserves finally being totally exhausted, leading to a real collapse of American economic infrastructure.

[W*GS]

Who are you voting for W*GS?

Neither Obama, nor McCain, nor Barr. I will likely not vote for any of the scum Presidential candidates.

Why do you lend your support to scum?

[W*GS]

baja, you're a moron.

[W*GS]

Obama did speak of cutting government agencies that are no longer needed.

Such as?

I would eliminate the following departments, in their entirety: Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, HHS, HUD, Transportation, Energy, Education, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Such as?

I would eliminate the following departments, in their entirety: Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, HHS, HUD, Transportation, Energy, Education, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security.

Why don't you move to Israel and live in a kibbutz or something>? I'm being serious.

[W*GS]

Why don't you move to Israel and live in a kibbutz or something>? I'm being serious.

Seeing as how the kibbutz are run along socialistic lines, why would I do that?

You're either not serious, or you're ignorant.

Oh, and the DoD would be cut by at least half.

[ScottXray]

Such as?

I would eliminate the following departments, in their entirety: Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, HHS, HUD, Transportation, Energy, Education, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security.

Interior..agreed
Agriculture...Except for FDA. (not sure if they fall in here)
Commerce...limited reduction but strong enforcement of market controls
Labor...no way...just give the companies more control of our workers when they already have too much?
HHS....do you want to eliminate Medicare too? How about social security?
HUD...reluctantly agree.
Transportation...Lets eliminate the Interstate Highways too?...reduction maybe!
Energy...when were in an energy crisis?
Education.. reluctantly agree, but expect it grow instead.
Veterans affairs....what about the vets? or do you care?
Homeland security.... agreed

I doubt if any of this occurs no matter who wins the election.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Seeing as how the kibbutz are run along socialistic lines, why would I do that?

You're either not serious, or you're ignorant.

Oh, and the DoD would be cut by at least half.

My point was moving to a place that exists without too much outside control. If you dont want the kibbutz, move in with some tribe in the amazon. Because your cynical view of government suggests you'd rather be cut off from society.