Holland traded to boys

[Conklin]

for a 2010 5th round pick

per text from DB.com

[Broncos_OTM]

holland strength is in the drop back game and he actually was pretty good at it. so if the staff thinks he is expendable that is meaning kuper is rocking the house

[Beantown Bronco]

I don't like this. Our best OLineman from last season is going bye bye for a 5th rounder......in two years? That is worthless.

We got more in return for freakin' Myers.

[BusMan]

You don't stay in Shanny's doghouse for long.

[MrLaw2u]

big big mistake

[AlienBronco]

Wow, it doesn't take long when your are Shanahan's doghouse

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

Is that for real? Why make that trade when you can keep the experienced body for depth. It doesn't make sense.

[vancejohnson82]

obligatory Shanahan doghouse comment here.....

I guess the Boys saw something out of him during the week of practice...

[Broncos_OTM]

LOL maybe jerry jones will make him push his sled to dallas

[Hotrod]

I like it. The tub of goo could not come into camp ready to compete then hit the bricks fatty. The youth movement is about gamers who want to compete.

[Bigdawg26]

I wish they would have traded him for bobby carpenter

[BlaK-Argentina]

I like it. The tub of goo could not come into camp ready to compete then hit the bricks fatty. The youth movement is about gamers who want to compete.

I agree but I thought he was valuable depth at least.

[BigPlayShay]

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/2008/08/28/holland-traded/

Holland Traded

The Broncos have traded guard Montrae Holland to the Dallas Cowboys for a fifth-round draft selection in 2010, Head Coach Mike Shanahan announced.

Holland joined the Broncos as an unrestricted free agent in March 2007 after spending the first four years of his career with the New Orleans Saints. He started all 16 games at right guard last year for the Broncos.

– Adam Zinser, DenverBroncos.com

[Broncos_OTM]

man we dont get the pick until 2010 eh i dont like it being that far off

[backup qb]

I wish they would have traded him for bobby carpenter

Well no kidding. I wish we could've gotten Marion Barber too, but I'll take the 5th. I'm just messing with you. This has to mean they like what they see out of the youngsters. I don't think you can expect get much more than this out of a vet non-Foneco type guard.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

Why?

Dallas must not trust McQuistan or Berger as a stop-gap fill-in for the loss of Kyle Kosier, but Kosier will be back in a few weeks.

[broncosteven]

Does this mean we have to watch Holland return a kick for a TD in the playoffs and win the SB again this year?

[PRBronco]

I wish they would have traded him for bobby carpenter

Yeargh, beat me to it.

[yerner]

this must mean we have tremedous amounts of depth, right?? right??

[ANIMAL24]

dumb move:o

[ScottXray]

Means Polumbus stays on the roster by my guess:strong:

[Hotrod]

Means Polumbus stays on the roster by my guess:strong:

Mustard is a ringer at this point

[Requiem]

**** yeah, 2010 fifth-rounder. Cool.

Holland blows dick, is playing out of position and is a fat **** anyways. I love FSU, but that guy is a dickmuch cockragger.

[bronco militia]

2010?!?!?!

[AlienBronco]

fifth-round draft selection in 2010?

Why 2010? How many Lbs overweight was he?

[Broncos_OTM]

**** yeah, 2010 fifth-rounder. Cool.

Holland blows dick, is playing out of position and is a fat **** anyways. I love FSU, but that guy is a dickmuch cockragger.

please tell us how you really feel

[want2bAbronco2]

Thats what I call a stupid move.

[Smiling Assassin27]

damn it shanny, you just made my montrae holland jersey obsolete! and i just bought this one to replace my john lynch jersey...which i bought to replace my ian gold jersey...ah hell.

[Hotrod]

fifth-round draft selection in 2010?

Why 2010? How many Lbs overweight was he?

TFTP

I dont imagine there was a large market for an about to be cut Olineman that was to freaking fat to play a fat ass position.

[AlienBronco]

TFTP

I dont imagine there was a large market for an about to be cut Olineman that was to freaking fat to play a fat ass position.

or it takes one year for him to push the sled to Dallas:D

[bronco militia]

or it takes one year for him to push the sled to Dallas:D

maybe 2 years...2010 draft??

[ScottXray]

Well we got a fifth round (albeit in two years) pick for a guy that was probably gonna be cut in less than a week. Pretty good for us as we get something for nothing, essentially. Hard on the depth, but obviously TFTP
was running low on the chart, or he'd of stuck.

Dallas must have seen something they liked about Holland, like maybe at 345 he fits right in with the rest of their O -line.

Is Shanny gonna make the cowpies his new trade Beyatch?

[HEAV]

RMN say's it's a 2009 fifth.

Guard Montrae Holland first lost his job in the Broncos offensive line, and now he has been shipped to another team.

Holland was traded Thursday to the Dallas Cowboys for a fifth-round pick in next April's draft. The Cowboys had been making the rounds around the league having suffered some injuries in their offensive line.

The 325-pound Holland, who missed two weeks of training camp after reporting overweight, fits their mold of bigger linemen. The Cowboys and Broncos had two days of joint practices earlier this month.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/28/broncos-trade-holland-cowboys-draft-pick/

------------

This is a stupid trade IMO. You never trade away O-line depth. With Nalen and Ham both injury trying to return from last year. Plus the fact that any injury could happen to any one of the players on the line.

This smells of Shanny trying to be the big man and show he's the boss of bosses.

Never, never trade away O-line depth. Two injuries and the O-line will be scrambling to fill holes.

[AlienBronco]

maybe 2 years...2010 draft??

You think, okay 2 years it is.

[bpc]

Agree with the pack. It's hard to find quality linemen, let alone one that is a damn good pass blocker and can hold the LOS for Cutler.

We give him away for a bag of peanuts. We are allergic to depth it seems. If the staff wasn't constantly searching for diamonds in the rough, what would they have to do in the offseason.

I hate that we gave away a good future center for a 6th round pick and Holland for a 5th. Dumb.

[snowspot66]

While I wish we had him for the depth at least this means one more young guy will stay on. There's a few I'm sure aren't ready yet but they didn't want to risk losing by placing them on the PS.

[kmonty]

I cannot believe this. Horrible, horrible move. Holland was our best o-lineman last year.

It didn't sound like Holland was in the doghouse. It really didn't. Something's fishy here. Maybe, a la Lynch, he wanted to be a starter and demanded a trade. Which is a douche bag thing to do. Just speculation of course.

I'm pissed. Any person went down on the line, and we move a few starters around (particularly Kuper), move Holland up to starter, and don't miss a beat. I hate this move.

[HEAV]

Montrae Holland is going to a team where being big isn't such a big deal.

The Broncos' 325-pound-or-so right guard was traded Thursday to the Dallas Cowboys in exchange for a fifth-round pick in the 2010 draft.

"I really didn't want to leave because I really liked it here," Holland said. "I had built some great relationships and I love the area here and I liked playing for the organization. But at the same time, I'm going back home and I've got a new start."

Holland grew up in Jefferson, Texas, a two hour drive from Dallas. After beginning his career with New Orleans, Holland signed with the Broncos as a free agent prior to last season and started all 16 games.

He lost his starting job, however, when he reported to training camp nearly 20 pounds over his playing weight. The extra pounds banished him to two weeks of intense conditioning with coach Rich Tuten and by the time Holland returned, his starting job was given to Chris Kuper, who had shifted from right tackle. Ryan Harris became the right tackle.

"I got off to slow start and they moved on, which is what you have to do in the NFL" Holland said. "Chris is one of my good friends and he's got a great opportunity and I'm really happy for Ryan Harris, too. I'm not at all bitter. I thank coach (Mike) Shanahan and the Broncos for giving me a new life and now they've given me another new life."

The Broncos have already paid Holland a $1 million roster bonus, but the Cowboys will now assume his $1.15 million base salary. The Cowboys are considered the NFL's biggest team as they had 21 players who weighed at least 300 pounds when they worked out with the Broncos two weeks ago.

Holland was to fly Thursday to Dallas and meet with the coaching staff Friday, so he wasn't sure what his status will be there. But he likely has a better chance at playing time there than here as the Cowboys lost starting left guard Kyle Kosier to a foot injury that will sideline him at least the first four regular-season games.


The Broncos have already paid Holland a $1 million roster bonus

More Bowlen money lost.

[Beantown Bronco]

Well we got a fifth round (albeit in two years) pick for a guy that was probably gonna be cut in less than a week.

I just can't see how they could cut the best OLineman they had last season. At worst, he is the #1 backup right now. You don't simply cut your #1 interior OLine backup.

[DenverBroncosJM]

Does this mean we have to watch Holland return a kick for a TD in the playoffs and win the SB again this year?

HAHAHA

[telluride]

Good move. Polumbus sticks, and we get a 5th rounder to package for potential draft day moves. Really doesn't matter if it's a 2009 or 2010.

I will miss the TFTP acronym, though.

[Borks147]

at least he was classy on the way out?

[illbroncsfn]

"I got off to slow start and they moved on, which is what you have to do in the NFL" Holland said. "Chris is one of my good friends and he's got a great opportunity and I'm really happy for Ryan Harris, too. I'm not at all bitter. I thank coach (Mike) Shanahan and the Broncos for giving me a new life and now they've given me another new life."

Many players are bitter and lash out at their former organization after being traded, it is nice to see Holland take the high road. Good luck w/the Cowboys Montrae...

[DenverBroncosJM]

"I got off to slow start and they moved on, which is what you have to do in the NFL" Holland said. "Chris is one of my good friends and he's got a great opportunity and I'm really happy for Ryan Harris, too. I'm not at all bitter. I thank coach (Mike) Shanahan and the Broncos for giving me a new life and now they've given me another new life."

Many players are bitter and lash out at their former organization after being traded, it is nice to see Holland take the high road. Good luck w/the Cowboys Montrae...


I agree all class!

[Kaylore]

Good move whether the pick is in '09 or '10. I think what facilitated this was the emergence of Harris as a legit RT. After that, this move became doable and had he not we would have kept Holland. Holland was too good to ride the pine and we had a surplus of talent, particularly inside the line. Hamilton is relatively young and never gets hurt, Kuper is an obvious starter and then we have Polumbus and Lichtensteiger. And as I pointed out earlier, the Shanahan doghouse is an abyss from which there is no return, so this move is hardly surprising and a good deal for the Broncos.

[AlienBronco]

I, for one would not let him on the Oline, because his display or lack of motivation in taking care of his body(as professional athlete he should know better).

[HEAV]

This is where Shanny fails as a GM, (yes he is the GM) he let's his ego get the best of him.

[WyoLaw]

TFTP

I dont imagine there was a large market for an about to be cut Olineman that was to freaking fat to play a fat ass position.

HAHA!! I believe this statement says all we need to know about the subject.

[summerdenver]

The only situation in which this is good is if Broncos know he was not going to make the team. Other wise it is a horrible move. Not only was he the best OL last year, he also graded as the best OL in Dal game according to this anallysis.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/8/19/596996/nplb-offensive-personnel-r

[Jens1893]

Firesale! Firesale! Firesale!

We should just auction off Cutler and Marshall ... if we throw in Champ we might even get a first rounder back in exchange.

[BusMan]

This isn't the kind of move a hot-seat coach/GM makes.

[Hamrob]

Good move whether the pick is in '09 or '10. I think what facilitated this was the emergence of Harris as a legit RT. After that, this move became doable and had he not we would have kept Holland. Holland was too good to ride the pine and we had a surplus of talent, particularly inside the line. Hamilton is relatively young and never gets hurt, Kuper is an obvious starter and then we have Polumbus and Lichtensteiger. And as I pointed out earlier, the Shanahan doghouse is an abyss from which there is no return, so this move is hardly surprising and a good deal for the Broncos.We also have Gandy and Alexander. Both are servicable backups. We probably wouldn't get Polumbus or Lichtensteiger to clear waivers...so they will need to stick on the active roster. That's 7 right there. So if we keep 9...we will probably keep both Gandy and Alexander and if we only keep 8...we probably go with Alexander as he can play all 5 of the Oline positions. Erickson goes to the practice squad.

[BroncoInferno]

This obviously means they are pleased with Kuper and the overall depth, even if some of you doom and gloomers aren't. Remember, Shanny likes swing guys at the backup spots and Holland can only play guard. I like the move. We a get a pick for a guy who probably wouldn't have been a Bronco beyond this season. I also like the show of confidence in Kuper and the youngsters.

[Hamrob]

I think 5th rounders can become diamonds in the rough. Great trade IMO. Great move by the Goodmans and Shanny!

[BroncoInferno]

This is where Shanny fails as a GM, (yes he is the GM) he let's his ego get the best of him.

Wrong. Holland wasn't going to start, and keeping him would mean releasing someone like Kory who is young, can play multiple spots, and may develope into a starter in time. Plus, he came to camp out of shape which is unprofessional and hurts the development of the lines chemstry, to say nothing of his own sharpness. He probably would have been gone after this season. Good move to get a 5th out of it.

[WyoLaw]

I just can't see how they could cut the best OLineman they had last season. At worst, he is the #1 backup right now. You don't simply cut your #1 interior OLine backup.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't cut him. They traded him for a 5th round draft pick.

[BroncoInferno]

The Broncos have already paid Holland a $1 million roster bonus

More Bowlen money lost.

It's not your money. What do you care? The cap significance if negligible.

[theAPAOps5]

who knows how they use this pick. Just because its 2010 doesn't mean it gets used in 2010. Package deal to move up on 2009 at some point?

[Bronco X]

It would have been nice to have some extra depth on the O-line. At least his playing time has been given to legit players unlike last season when Gerard Warren was traded and Amon Gordon had to take his place.

[lookin' glass]

Something to consider may be Shanahan is doing this to help Holland more so than to banish him per se. Some players got the boot to get the boot, others were moved as a favor to them i.e. Lynch.
What does Fatsis say about this?

[Greybeard]

We also have Gandy and Alexander. Both are servicable backups. We probably wouldn't get Polumbus or Lichtensteiger to clear waivers...so they will need to stick on the active roster. That's 7 right there. So if we keep 9...we will probably keep both Gandy and Alexander and if we only keep 8...we probably go with Alexander as he can play all 5 of the Oline positions. Erickson goes to the practice squad.

Sounds about right, although they might keep Gandy for the experience.

-----

[Beantown Bronco]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't cut him. They traded him for a 5th round draft pick.

Read the post I was directly replying to. I was disagreeing with Scottxray (and one or two others above him) who stated that Holland was going to be cut anyway next week. There's no way he was going to be cut outright.

[Bizzle]

Montrae was expendable because of Kuper's starting play and added depth of Dylan Gandy. IMHO, a 5th round pick in any future draft is good value for an out of shape guard. The 'Boys were probably offering a 6th or 7th in '09, in which case I would much rather have the 5th in '10.

[Drek]

We have some solid, younger, interior OL depth. Holland didn't show up ready to play, that isn't an attitude we can afford to foster when guarding our young franchise QB.

Kuper was hungrier, he took the opportunity and took Holland's job. At that point we got Gandy, young and signed long term with nearly as much starting experience as Holland, Alexander, young and can play all five spots, and Lichtenstieger, young and looks like the kind of center we need in the future.

No problems here. Wish we could've gotten an '09 5th instead but come '10 we'll all be happy to have that pick waiting. It also gives us just enough time for Pac-Man and TO to make that team implode and get the 5th after a 5-11 season. :D

[INbronco]

I bet the reason Holland got so much playing time in the Dallas game is because Shanny wanted to show him off to a potential trade partner. This can only mean they have known for some time that the oline is solid with Harris and Kuper. Didn't Kupesdad report 3 or 4 weeks ago that Kupe said Harris is solid.
Man, its starting to look real good for the offense this year!! We already know that Cutler is doing what we thought he could do and the receiver corps is solid with depth because Royal came around. I still think the running back situation is solid and I'll bet Shanny is really planning to have Torain back for depth. If Hillis is the real deal then we could be back to 97-98.
Just hope the defensive line doesn't suck and Slovik has a real grasp of how to use this defense. Can you imagine what champ and dre would do if we jump out with 21 points and a 14 point lead in the first half?

[HEAV]

Wrong. Holland wasn't going to start, and keeping him would mean releasing someone like Kory who is young, can play multiple spots, and may develope into a starter in time. Plus, he came to camp out of shape which is unprofessional and hurts the development of the lines chemstry, to say nothing of his own sharpness. He probably would have been gone after this season. Good move to get a 5th out of it.

Sorry but I feel that you play for the current season. Relying on rookies and walk on's doesn't help now.

If one key member is lost from this unit then you have to plug in one of the young and not veteran players. It's asking to get Jay injured.




It's not your money. What do you care? The cap significance if negligible.

Well gee I guess the fact that another million went to another player not playing on the current team isn't a big deal.

My bad.::)

It's money being spent on a player that gives nothing to the 2008 Broncos.

It's stupid.



Some of you sheep (on here) just follow daddy Shanny to the river and drink the water.


Money was paid already and as you said the cap number wasn't a big deal. You should keep the best players you can quality depth is more important
than cheap versatility. If Ham or kuper go down I’d rather have Holland in there than some rookie or a street free agent.



But you just keep drinking the water.

[JCMElway]

**** yeah, 2010 fifth-rounder. Cool.

Holland blows dick, is playing out of position and is a fat **** anyways. I love FSU, but that guy is a dickmuch cockragger.

So......

What do you think of him really? C'mon no, no need to be coy.

[Play2win]

What the ****... Well, all I can say is I hope its in our longterm best interests...

[Hotrod]

I really think Mustard is getting over looked here.

[ColoradoDarin]

I just can't see how they could cut the best OLineman they had last season. At worst, he is the #1 backup right now. You don't simply cut your #1 interior OLine backup.

Unless he's not actually our #1 interior OL backup...

[Atlas]

I'm pissed. Any person went down on the line, and we move a few starters around (particularly Kuper), move Holland up to starter, and don't miss a beat. I hate this move.

You're pissed?? LOL Your pissed because Denver traded a backup OL. Take a couple of breaths and relax.

I don't like this trade either but this really opens up the roster for a couple of other players that were considered longshots. Denver also just got a little younger. They are definatley going to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL.

[Beantown Bronco]

Unless he's not actually our #1 interior OL backup...

His solid play last year, knowledge of the system, and his position on the depth chart says he was.

[JCMElway]

I think the move says how much we like Lichtenstieger, Wiggeman, Alexander, Erickson, and Polumbus.

If we trade Gandy as well that will put an exclamation point on how well that group is doing.

Also, Brett Pierce may make the team and Mustard transitions back to OT.

[Atlas]

Sorry but I feel that you play for the current season. Relying on rookies and walk on's doesn't help now.

If one key member is lost from this unit then you have to plug in one of the young and not veteran players. It's asking to get Jay injured.

.


Gandy and Alexander are not rookies. They are experienced vets.

[Kaylore]

You're pissed?? LOL Your pissed because Denver traded a backup OL. Take a couple of breaths and relax.

I don't like this trade either but this really opens up the roster for a couple of other players that were considered longshots. Denver also just got a little younger. They are definatley going to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL.

Most teams don't have the luxury of having a line so deep that a starting caliber player is on the bench. There is a bit of gamble in this in that the Broncos are betting that none of their linemen get hurt. I also understand why some would have liked to see Hamilton at Center and Kuper and Holland both at guard. Obviously that would be nice, but the Broncos have confidence in the youth movement and are banking they stay healthy, the Cowboys get a good player and Holland gets to play. The way I see it, everyone gets something and those are the best trades.

[broncocalijohn]

Mustard is a ringer at this point

Mustard wil be cut, but then resigned by Monday. It is in his contract to be cut and resigned 6 times a season.

[ZONA]

I agree. He obviously didn't want the job because if you don't come to camp ready to compete, that tells me you either want the job handed to you or you don't really want it that bad. Not the kind of dude you want on your club. He's really really fat and slow. Was gonna get cut and we land a 5th for him...........man, I'll take that any day. Who cares if it's in 2 years. This is a young club. Alot of you act like it's Elway at QB and he is gonna retire next year. In 2 years, everybody will be like.......hey, why do we have this extra 5th round pick. Uh, remember when we traded Holland to the cowgirls. Holland who? Yeah, that's what I thought - so shut up and be thankful we got a pick for him.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Ray Finkle]

Everyone forgets that Holland was suppose to be a backup last year, Kuper got into the doghouse and Holland had a good year on a bad line. The line has improved and he wasn't needed. Turning a 5th round pick from a FA the year before is pretty good.

[Beantown Bronco]

Turning a 5th round pick from a FA the year before is pretty good.

Not necessarily....especially when the FA in question played so well that he earned a 2 year extension and the 5th round pick is two years in the future. Say what you want about how "nice" it will be to have that extra pick in two years. Facts are facts. Picks get devalued in trades the further in the future they are (not to mention that the team the pick is dependent upon has been picking in the bottom five or so of each round in recent memory).

[Bronx33]

the cowboys like em fat..

[broncosteven]

I really think Mustard is getting over looked here.

In reality he could be moved to Tackle in emergency so I do like his chances.

I am pulling for Mustard for DORTOH and Polumbus for Kahn, though I wonder if Kuper is jelous now.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

WHAT?!?1? But Kaylore keeps telling me HE'S SUCH AN AWESOME STUD GUARD!!!

[Bronx33]

your man crush is showing again boob.

[Hotrod]

this fat ass poster is on your ignore list. Lucky you

Dumb ass

[broncofan2438]

Oh this is good, what does that do for us now?

[Bronx33]

Oh this is good, what does that do for us now?



We lost 20 lbs instantly!!

[FireFly]

I don't like this move at all.

All of a sudden we are lacking experienced depth on the O-line.

Nothing was really gained from this.

I hope we don't pick up an injury

[chrisp]

We lost the depth when Holland turned up to camp overweight. The fact that we got something in exchange for someone who couldn't keep in shape in the offseason is nothing short of miraculous.

People sometimes put up with this kind of crap from bona fide pro bowlers, but a guy who's nothing more than a solid starter and should be expecting to fight for his job can't afford to let this happen.

20 lbs? How many steaks is that???

[PRBronco]

Wait, what does this mean for Wendy's?

[Bronx33]

Wait, what does this mean for Wendy's?


LOL

[Kaylore]

Wait, what does this mean for Wendy's?

:~ohyah!: Only the locals will get that one.

[Broncosmang]

Look we can spin this however we like, but don't try to sell me on Alexander and Gandy as solid backups. PJ sat behind Holland last year because he's you're classic journeyman backup nothing more. And what do we really know about Gandy? Not a thing. The huge and I mean huge concern for me are Hamilton and Harris' health history.

We're going into the season with five count em five guys who weren't starting for us to begin last year trying to make up our line this year. You guys have a lot more faith than me if you feel like that's sure footing with which to start the season. All this excitement about our ability to know keep undrafted free agents and journeymen on our roster is baffling.

[Greybeard]

In reality he could be moved to Tackle in emergency so I do like his chances.

I am pulling for Mustard for DORTOH and Polumbus for Kahn, though I wonder if Kuper is jelous now.

I got Kuper. ;D

-----

[Hotrod]

Look we can spin this however we like, but don't try to sell me on Alexander and Gandy as solid backups. PJ sat behind Holland last year because he's you're classic journeyman backup nothing more. And what do we really know about Gandy? Not a thing. The huge and I mean huge concern for me are Hamilton and Harris' health history.

We're going into the season with five count em five guys who weren't starting for us to begin last year trying to make up our line this year. You guys have a lot more faith than me if you feel like that's sure footing with which to start the season. All this excitement about our ability to know keep undrafted free agents and journeymen on our roster is baffling.

Take a look at the tape (yes its preseason) personally I like what I've seen

[bpc]

Needless to say, we're a worse team today vs. yesterday.

[Requiem]

BILL WILLIAMSON IS REPORTING FOURTH ROUND PICK.
(http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-2-400/Denver-s-Holland-stunned-by-trade-to-Dallas.html)

He's probably wrong.

[ZONA]

Picks get devalued in trades the further in the future they are.

That may be one of the most stupid things I have ever heard. How does our 5th round pick in 2 years become worth less then a 5th round pick next year? The value of it won't be as high if we try to trade it or something next year as opposed to trading it the following year, but that's no being "devalued". Where did you learn your draft pick economics anyway?

[Hotrod]

http://theramblingrountrees.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/drama-queen.jpg

[Requiem]

Yes Zona, future picks are worth half as much in trades for the current year.

[telluride]

BILL WILLIAMSON IS REPORTING FOURTH ROUND PICK.
(http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-2-400/Denver-s-Holland-stunned-by-trade-to-Dallas.html)

He's probably wrong.

You excited about that Req? Or just went font size crazy for a moment?

[rmsanger]

this is instant fail... we could have gotten more for Marcus Nash or Mike Bell..

[Cito Pelon]

A 5th isn't too shabby. Hopefully, he won't be missed.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Its never a good idea to trade talent for wishes.

[Goobzilla]

My boy Erickson quietly moves up the depth chart.

[bpinna]

The purpose of the trade is to send a message. It's an expensive message, but it has to be evaluated in that light. Tow the line or you're out of a job.

I wish we didn't make the trade, but I can certainly understand why.

[gyldenlove]

A 4th round pick would be solid, the 4th round has been our bread and butter the last couple of years.

[Drek]

Look we can spin this however we like, but don't try to sell me on Alexander and Gandy as solid backups. PJ sat behind Holland last year because he's you're classic journeyman backup nothing more. And what do we really know about Gandy? Not a thing. The huge and I mean huge concern for me are Hamilton and Harris' health history.

We're going into the season with five count em five guys who weren't starting for us to begin last year trying to make up our line this year. You guys have a lot more faith than me if you feel like that's sure footing with which to start the season. All this excitement about our ability to know keep undrafted free agents and journeymen on our roster is baffling.

Gandy has been in the league four years and started 15 games on a Colts playoff team.

He's a solid OG backup. For the ZBS he's probably better than Holland. Not as good pass blocking I'm sure, but Holland wasn't committed.

What's a bigger risk, an OG who is a few pounds lighter and with a few less games experience, or an OG who is undisciplined and has poor conditioning?

Also, this was the knock on Holland coming out of New Orleans. He lost a starting job there for similar reasons and they never looked back on their way to a franchise record season. I don't have any doubt that Kuper surpassed him on the depth chart and the battle between him and Gandy or Alexander was close enough to make it an easy move for the FO.

[Inkana7]

Actually, Drek, I'd say that Gandy is an excellent pass blocker. He started at Texas Tech, and we all know what they do, and then the Colts, who usually NEVER give up more than 15 sacks a season. From that alone I'd gander that he's a great pass blocker.

[serious hops]

Jesus, what a bunch of sad-ass pissing and moaning. When did Montrae Holland become a young Larry Allen? "Oooh, there goes our veteran depth." Maybe he should have acted like a vet and showed up ready to work. This is a great example for all the young guys on the team - be a professional and treat your job seriously, or get the hell out.

[Kaylore]

Jesus, what a bunch of sad-ass pissing and moaning. When did Montrae Holland become a young Larry Allen? "Oooh, there goes our veteran depth." Maybe he should have acted like a vet and showed up ready to work. This is a great example for all the young guys on the team - be a professional and treat your job seriously, or get the hell out.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8919/clapag4.gif

[Broncosmang]

Gandy has been in the league four years and started 15 games on a Colts playoff team.

He's a solid OG backup. For the ZBS he's probably better than Holland. Not as good pass blocking I'm sure, but Holland wasn't committed.

What's a bigger risk, an OG who is a few pounds lighter and with a few less games experience, or an OG who is undisciplined and has poor conditioning?

Also, this was the knock on Holland coming out of New Orleans. He lost a starting job there for similar reasons and they never looked back on their way to a franchise record season. I don't have any doubt that Kuper surpassed him on the depth chart and the battle between him and Gandy or Alexander was close enough to make it an easy move for the FO.


All good and well my friend. i too have access to NFL.com. The point I'm trying to make is that unless a guy's been a consistent starter (which by the way he only was for one year and then got replaced) I want to see what they do in the Orange and Blue. As of yet, he's done nothing. Holland? oh he was our best o lineman last year.

[watermock]

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1241/wallcopyve2.jpg

Gawd, Clady dwarfs people!

[montrose]

While I loved the initial thought of having Holland as depth, this is too good to pass up. Yes he was our best OL last year, but moving forward Kuper and Harris could solidify the right side of our line for years to come and if Lichtentsteiger can slide in at LG or C (with Hamilton playing the other) - we're in great shape. I foresaw Holland getting cut after arriving TFTP, so I'll gladly take a pick for him. Now ship off Gandy to Indy for a conditional 7th and keep the released-PJ Alexander on speed dial in case of an injury.

[TotallyScrewed]

Good move whether the pick is in '09 or '10. I think what facilitated this was the emergence of Harris as a legit RT. After that, this move became doable and had he not we would have kept Holland. Holland was too good to ride the pine and we had a surplus of talent, particularly inside the line. Hamilton is relatively young and never gets hurt, Kuper is an obvious starter and then we have Polumbus and Lichtensteiger. And as I pointed out earlier, the Shanahan doghouse is an abyss from which there is no return, so this move is hardly surprising and a good deal for the Broncos.

I agree with you and further this is an indicator of how the coaches feel about their starters, especially both tackles...where the line begins and ends and about their young back-ups. Chris and Ryan H. must be doing exceptionally well and Chris has that cast going still.

I think this is really positive. And an extra pick if they continue to use their picks wisely, is great.

[TheReverend]

All the people complaining about quality depth need to take a step back, take a deep breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth, and relax.

What's going to dress on Sundays?
Our 5 starters
Backup center
A swing guard
A swing tackle

And we're protecting our franchise, so we want vets filling those roles.
Oh my! We have that and more!

Clady, Hamilton, Nalen, Kuper, Harris
Weigman
PJ Alexander is a LONG standing vet in this system (and Dyland Gandy is not too shabby for another interior option)
Pears (cry all you want, he's one of the best swing tackle back-up options in the business)

...and this move lets someone like Lichtensteiger (drafted in the 4th so he has an all-pro future to look forward to) get more reps, attention and opportunity.

[TheReverend]

...and is it really difficult to be the "best offensive lineman on last year's line" when 60% was decimated by injuries and either filled with first year starters, undeveloped players, or injury cases?

[TotallyScrewed]

That may be one of the most stupid things I have ever heard. How does our 5th round pick in 2 years become worth less then a 5th round pick next year? The value of it won't be as high if we try to trade it or something next year as opposed to trading it the following year, but that's no being "devalued". Where did you learn your draft pick economics anyway?

What did the cowboys do last year... 13-3? They're considered a good team this year. What will they be in two years? Are they going to be the Champions? The value is as good as they are and it's a fifth so we're not talking about the differences between the top 15 players and those after that. Don't sweat value...they got something for nothing.

And I'm not buying twenty pounds either. He was more than that amount over. The Broncos don't typically have the extremely fat guys on their O-line and he was pushing the extreme end.

[oubronco]

Dumb move in my opinion he was there best o-lineman last year and they might be needing help as the year goes on ..............just STUPID !!!!

[Drek]

Actually, Drek, I'd say that Gandy is an excellent pass blocker. He started at Texas Tech, and we all know what they do, and then the Colts, who usually NEVER give up more than 15 sacks a season. From that alone I'd gander that he's a great pass blocker.
I'm sure he's a good pass blocker, but Holland is such a fat ball of beef he could probably lay down and be enough of an obstacle to give Jay a couple seconds.

All good and well my friend. i too have access to NFL.com. The point I'm trying to make is that unless a guy's been a consistent starter (which by the way he only was for one year and then got replaced) I want to see what they do in the Orange and Blue. As of yet, he's done nothing. Holland? oh he was our best o lineman last year.

I don't check NFL.com for my info, I remember when he played for the Colts.

And he was pretty solid, just not as good as the proven vet starter he replaced. But that isn't the question her is it? We aren't saying "oh no, we traded a starter!" We moved a depth guy, a depth guy that Gandy is at least as proven as.

Holland lost his starting job and was let walk from NO, so its not like he's a career starter himself.

And saying Holland was our best lineman last year is like being the world's tallest midget. Don't mean a whole lot.

Simple fact. Holland isn't that good. He wasn't needed in NO who isn't a perennial powerhouse, and he only started one year here on a horrible OL. We didn't even bring him in necessarily to be a starter by the way.

He then shows up fat and out of shape, proving his isn't a committed veteran. Gandy is, and he's younger. Why would we keep Holland around when Gandy is probably a comparable option and we could get a pick back out of Holland?

He punched his own ticket, he should've realized that Shanahan wasn't content with our OL depth when we drafted Lichtenstieger and signed Gandy. He figured his job was a lock and he didn't try. Too bad for him that Kuper showed up ready to play and ate his lunch.

[Ray Finkle]

I'm sure he's a good pass blocker, but Holland is such a fat ball of beef he could probably lay down and be enough of an obstacle to give Jay a couple seconds.



I don't check NFL.com for my info, I remember when he played for the Colts.

And he was pretty solid, just not as good as the proven vet starter he replaced. But that isn't the question her is it? We aren't saying "oh no, we traded a starter!" We moved a depth guy, a depth guy that Gandy is at least as proven as.

Holland lost his starting job and was let walk from NO, so its not like he's a career starter himself.

And saying Holland was our best lineman last year is like being the world's tallest midget. Don't mean a whole lot.

Simple fact. Holland isn't that good. He wasn't needed in NO who isn't a perennial powerhouse, and he only started one year here on a horrible OL. We didn't even bring him in necessarily to be a starter by the way.

He then shows up fat and out of shape, proving his isn't a committed veteran. Gandy is, and he's younger. Why would we keep Holland around when Gandy is probably a comparable option and we could get a pick back out of Holland?

He punched his own ticket, he should've realized that Shanahan wasn't content with our OL depth when we drafted Lichtenstieger and signed Gandy. He figured his job was a lock and he didn't try. Too bad for him that Kuper showed up ready to play and ate his lunch.

:thumbs:

[TallyBronco]

Yawn. Back-up lineman traded for draft pick. Must still be preseason if the fans are pissed about this one.

[Broncosmang]

I'm sure he's a good pass blocker, but Holland is such a fat ball of beef he could probably lay down and be enough of an obstacle to give Jay a couple seconds.



I don't check NFL.com for my info, I remember when he played for the Colts.

And he was pretty solid, just not as good as the proven vet starter he replaced. But that isn't the question her is it? We aren't saying "oh no, we traded a starter!" We moved a depth guy, a depth guy that Gandy is at least as proven as.

Holland lost his starting job and was let walk from NO, so its not like he's a career starter himself.

And saying Holland was our best lineman last year is like being the world's tallest midget. Don't mean a whole lot.

Simple fact. Holland isn't that good. He wasn't needed in NO who isn't a perennial powerhouse, and he only started one year here on a horrible OL. We didn't even bring him in necessarily to be a starter by the way.

He then shows up fat and out of shape, proving his isn't a committed veteran. Gandy is, and he's younger. Why would we keep Holland around when Gandy is probably a comparable option and we could get a pick back out of Holland?

He punched his own ticket, he should've realized that Shanahan wasn't content with our OL depth when we drafted Lichtenstieger and signed Gandy. He figured his job was a lock and he didn't try. Too bad for him that Kuper showed up ready to play and ate his lunch.


Well stated. A nights sleep and less alcohol in my system have allowed me to take a step back and determine that I pretty much agree with you. Next question is do we trade Gandy as people are saying we're being rumored to do. Lichtensteiger had better step up big time if that's the case.

[chickennob2]

Way to manufacture value. Sign a FA for little money, get a 5th round pick for it

[cutthemdown]

I sure hope no starters get injured at guard.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Jesus, what a bunch of sad-ass pissing and moaning. When did Montrae Holland become a young Larry Allen? "Oooh, there goes our veteran depth." Maybe he should have acted like a vet and showed up ready to work. This is a great example for all the young guys on the team - be a professional and treat your job seriously, or get the hell out.

Thank you!!! People are acting like Holland was the second coming. Trust me he wasn't, if he was Kahn me and others would not have wanted Brandon Albert so much. Did we forget all those false start calls at home that he had. How many times did we see Holland being pushed back into Cutlers lap.

Now added to the fact that he showed up to camp fat. This is the NFL of the 2008 not the NFL of 1968 where you can come to camp to "get in shape". The NFL of today you are expected to come to camp in shape to play or you are disrespecting yourself and your teammates.

[worm]

...if he was Kahn me and others would not have wanted Brandon Albert so much....

I am sorry. Khan is dating Montrose right now.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

I am sorry. Khan is dating Montrose right now.

So what are you wearing tonight?



JK. ;)

[worm]

So what are you wearing tonight?



JK. ;)

:rofl:

[Requiem]

Was it ever established if it's a 2009 or 2010 fifth round pick? I've read both from numerous sites.

[theAPAOps5]

Gawd, Clady dwarfs people!

Dude he is Ginormous:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n224/ApaOps5/Broncos%20Training%20Camp%20080208/BroncosTC080208024.jpg

[theAPAOps5]

This is why TFTP was traded:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n224/ApaOps5/Broncos%20Training%20Camp%20080208/BroncosTC080208094.jpg


http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n224/ApaOps5/Broncos%20Training%20Camp%20080208/BroncosTC080208098.jpg

[CasinoRoyal]

Good trade,

We will use this pick to help us trade up in this years draft.......

Mmmmmm Rolle, Mays, Moreno, Maulegau<spell check

[CasinoRoyal]

I guarantee the Cowboys welcome him with open arms though.

They love fat sloppy big OLinemen.

He fits them more than he fits us.

So goodluck to Holland.

We dont need him here anyway were loaded with youth and depth.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

This is why TFTP was traded:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n224/ApaOps5/Broncos%20Training%20Camp%20080208/BroncosTC080208094.jpg


http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n224/ApaOps5/Broncos%20Training%20Camp%20080208/BroncosTC080208098.jpg

Thats not a moon. Thats the Death Star.

[400HZ]

In scouting terms, he has a nice bubble.

[CasinoRoyal]

Dont be suprised if hes playing at a high level for them though.

But i appreciate getting a pick for a guy we signed as a free agent who was going to be cut.

Shanny GM skills improving?

[elsid13]

This is why TFTP was traded:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n224/ApaOps5/Broncos%20Training%20Camp%20080208/BroncosTC080208098.jpg


Why are you taking photos of a fat man's ass???

Waiting for Spider to post he hit it

[theAPAOps5]

Why are you taking photos of a fat man's ass???

Waiting for Spider to post he hit it

Duh its a Fat Ass. Its a metaphor! But yeah it was a very gay moment. I had to go home drink a beer fix something and love the wife.

[Bronx33]

What does the cowboys offensive line weigh now?

[elsid13]

Duh its a Fat Ass. Its a metaphor! But yeah it was a very gay moment. I had to go home drink a beer fix something and love the wife.

Should have bought a power tool to get back into real man mode.

[gyldenlove]

What does the cowboys offensive line weigh now?

The good news is that dark matter has been solved, it turns out the missing matter is the Cowboys offensive line, so I would say it weighs about 40% of the total mass in the Universe.

[gyldenlove]

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n224/ApaOps5/Broncos%20Training%20Camp%20080208/BroncosTC080208098.jpg

Holy smokes Batman, that thing could cause a total solar eclipse in the entire midwest!

[CasinoRoyal]

Whoever the camera man was that took that picture is fruitish.

[Bronx33]

Whoever the camera man was that took that picture is fruitish.


The guy who posted it took the pic there was just no way of getting a clear shot of whatever was behind that monster. :clown:

[theAPAOps5]

Whoever the camera man was that took that picture is fruitish.

Well I took the picture and it was meant as a joke so how about you STFU.

[CasinoRoyal]

The guy who posted it took the pic there was just no way of getting a clear shot of whatever was behind that monster. :clown:

This is true.

I guess i take my statement back.

[CasinoRoyal]

Well I took the picture and it was meant as a joke so how about you STFU.

ROFL! its okay tootie fruity

[theAPAOps5]

I told you I remedied the fruity moment in question by beer, fixing things, and sex. ;D

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Whoever the camera man was that took that picture is fruitish.

you must be new here.

[CasinoRoyal]

you must be new here.

Really?