Your thoughts on Scott O'Brian?

[lex]

Alright. There was an interesting quote from Dominique Foxworth in TSN a few weeks ago. The question to him was who is the biggest suck-up. His answer was the coaches. He said the coaches coach harder when Shanahan comes around. This supports what many have said about Shanahan having a bunch of yes men on his staff. But in particular, has anyone really been all that impressed with Scott O'Brians handiwork?

Our STs were dreadful last year and we threw Dominik Hixon under the bus because of it. Personnel was part of it but in generally they also werent prepared for situations which goes back to coaching. Case in point, the Chicago game. The turning point of the game was when the Chicago defender (Tillman I think) moved in away from the gunner and on to the line to block the punt and NO ONE accounted for him. It was extremely easy...too easy and the reason was that our defensive players didnt react well to the situation which falls back to coaching. Plus, their exectution wasnt very good which to some extent falls back to personne. But are you satisfied with what O'Brian has shown so far?

Thoughts?

[broncogary]

I just wish Foxworth was as good as he thought he was.

[backup qb]

I just wish Foxworth was as good as he thought he was.

Amen on Foxy. We didn't throw Hixon under the bus. He was dreadful. Yes, it seems as though he has improved, but I can't blame the staff for cutting Hixon. They needed production and weren't getting it from him.

[Spider]

LOL yes men ? what we should have a comity system ? it dont work that way .....either you believe in the HC system or you hit the road ...........

[lex]

Amen on Foxy. We didn't throw Hixon under the bus. He was dreadful. Yes, it seems as though he has improved, but I can't blame the staff for cutting Hixon. They needed production and weren't getting it from him.

O'Brian got a pass a number of times last year. Again, I reference the Chicago game. When people think of the Chicago game, they blame the loss on kicking to Hester (more specifically Shanahan kicking to Hester and Sauerbrun running his mouth) but whats forgotten is that we were up two scores in the 4th qtr even after Hester scored twice.

Also, look at the Buffalo game. He kind of got a pass because the ST ran that firedrill for the game winning kick and so people forgot our own poor returns and also giving up that long return to Parrish earlier in the game.

Overall, the STs have been nothing to scream about.

[broncogary]

LOL yes men ? what we should have a comity system ? it dont work that way .....either you believe in the HC system or you hit the road ...........

Its spelled "comedy." Ha!

[lex]

LOL yes men ? what we should have a comity system ? it dont work that way .....either you believe in the HC system or you hit the road ...........


No, you can have a system that values competence over submissiveness and acquiescence.

[Spider]

No, you can have a system that values competence over submissiveness and acquiescence.

If yo say so ..........

[lex]

If yo say so ..........

Not quite.

[broncogary]

Actually, it seems like the only thing we did to get better on special teams last year was to hire O'Brian. Other than that, everything was the same.

This year they drafted Royal, but so far he's done more in the O, than on ST.

For some reason, Shanahan doesn't want to make it an area of emphasis, even though its the easiest and quickest unit to have great improvement in.

[Spider]

Not quite.

if you say so

[yerner]

I think its spelled O'Brien. Thats what I think.

[lex]

I think its spelled O'Brien. Thats what I think.


Not until he squares the special teams away.

[yerner]

Not until he squares the special teams away.

Well said, sir.

[Dean]

Our STs were dreadful last year and we threw Dominik Hixon under the bus because of it. Personnel was part of it but in generally they also werent prepared for situations which goes back to coaching. Case in point, the Chicago game. The turning point of the game was when the Chicago defender (Tillman I think) moved in away from the gunner and on to the line to block the punt and NO ONE accounted for him. It was extremely easy...too easy and the reason was that our defensive players didnt react well to the situation which falls back to coaching. Plus, their exectution wasnt very good which to some extent falls back to personne. But are you satisfied with what O'Brian has shown so far?

Thoughts?


I believe that Hixon has already been released by the Giants. He wasn't all that.

[Rock Chalk]

Alright. There was an interesting quote from Dominique Foxworth in TSN a few weeks ago. The question to him was who is the biggest suck-up. His answer was the coaches. He said the coaches coach harder when Shanahan comes around. This supports what many have said about Shanahan having a bunch of yes men on his staff. But in particular, has anyone really been all that impressed with Scott O'Brians handiwork?

Our STs were dreadful last year and we threw Dominik Hixon under the bus because of it. Personnel was part of it but in generally they also werent prepared for situations which goes back to coaching. Case in point, the Chicago game. The turning point of the game was when the Chicago defender (Tillman I think) moved in away from the gunner and on to the line to block the punt and NO ONE accounted for him. It was extremely easy...too easy and the reason was that our defensive players didnt react well to the situation which falls back to coaching. Plus, their exectution wasnt very good which to some extent falls back to personne. But are you satisfied with what O'Brian has shown so far?

Thoughts?

O'Brien is the best ST coach in the league, period. The problem is, we have shyt for "backup" players to play special teams.

The reason the players dont react is because the are not very good. O'Brien has had a great ST unit everywhere he has been because other teams put more value on the personnel in special teams whereas Coach Shanahan seems to value CBs, RBs, QBs and WRs.

broncogary is right, this is Shanahan's fault pure and simple. He has never placed much emphasis on Special Teams. Our blocking and tackling on the unit is atrocious.

[Rock Chalk]

O'Brian got a pass a number of times last year. Again, I reference the Chicago game. When people think of the Chicago game, they blame the loss on kicking to Hester (more specifically Shanahan kicking to Hester and Sauerbrun running his mouth) but whats forgotten is that we were up two scores in the 4th qtr even after Hester scored twice.

Also, look at the Buffalo game. He kind of got a pass because the ST ran that firedrill for the game winning kick and so people forgot our own poor returns and also giving up that long return to Parrish earlier in the game.

Overall, the STs have been nothing to scream about.

If we were up 2 scores after Hester scored twice then that falls on the defense for being pushovers and the offense for not controlling the clock.

Thats a horrible analogy for special teams play. Besides which, Hester has done that to most teams he encounters.

[SBboundBroncos]

I believe that Hixon has already been released by the Giants. He wasn't all that.

seriously

[telluride]

O'Brien is the best ST coach in the league, period. The problem is, we have shyt for "backup" players to play special teams.

The reason the players dont react is because the are not very good. O'Brien has had a great ST unit everywhere he has been because other teams put more value on the personnel in special teams whereas Coach Shanahan seems to value CBs, RBs, QBs and WRs.

broncogary is right, this is Shanahan's fault pure and simple. He has never placed much emphasis on Special Teams. Our blocking and tackling on the unit is atrocious.

Actually, I think you're on to something here. Our top to bottom talent level hasn't been good for most of the last decade. But it seems to be getting better, thankfully. The more Woodyard-type players we have on special teams, the better the ST will be.

[Spider]

Hixon vs Kieth Burns ...... we havent really been solid on SP teams since Burns left

[DeuceOfClub]

Based on the first 3 games (Yes, I know it’s Preseason) get ready for another poor performance on special teams, especially the return game (both offense and defense).

In my wet dreams, every time we kickoff or punt we force a touchback, and when returning we either fair-catch or touchback.

[worm]

Alright. There was an interesting quote from Dominique Foxworth in TSN a few weeks ago. The question to him was who is the biggest suck-up. His answer was the coaches. He said the coaches coach harder when Shanahan comes around. This supports what many have said about Shanahan having a bunch of yes men on his staff. But in particular, has anyone really been all that impressed with Scott O'Brians handiwork?

Thoughts?

Wow. People work harder when the boss is around....and you translate that into these coaches being yes men?

Get a job, bro. Any job.

[DenverBrit]

I believe that Hixon has already been released by the Giants. He wasn't all that.

He was?? Then we should pick him immediately.

Hixon, a third-year pro who was scraped off the waiver wire last October, took advantage of his teammates' absences with a breakout performance in the defending champs' return to Giants Stadium. He scored three touchdowns in the first quarter - including one on an 82-yard kick return - as the Giants beat the Cleveland Browns in their preseason home opener, 37-34.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2008/08/18/2008-08-18_domenik_hixon_leads_giants_with_three_td.html

[sixtimeseight]

He wasn't. I have no idea where he got that idea.

[Spider]

My point is instead of finding flash in the pan type of players , we need to find more Kieth Burns types , consistent week in week out

[lex]

Wow. People work harder when the boss is around....and you translate that into these coaches being yes men?

Get a job, bro. Any job.

I have a job, knucklehead.

[lex]

If we were up 2 scores after Hester scored twice then that falls on the defense for being pushovers and the offense for not controlling the clock.

Thats a horrible analogy for special teams play. Besides which, Hester has done that to most teams he encounters.


No, the ST gave Chicago the Bears a short field on a day where Chicago didnt really have much consistency on offense. It was basically a blocked punt where there was no one smart enough (or prepared enough) to identify the need to block Tillman and also a PI call on Bly later. Never mind Hester. Like I said, had it not been for the ST play, theres no reason to think the Bears could have fought their way back into the game. And the ST play was just not being prepared.

[Popps]

The fact that a top-flight kick returner smoked our team was much LESS disappointing than our ****-can defense who let Grossman walk all over them for in that game.

Once again, the trees got in the way of people seeing the forest in that game.
Yes, Chicago benefited from some flashy returns. However, our defense blew a two-score lead late in the game that had nothing to do with punt returns.

[Beantown Bronco]

Exactly....pretty tough to lay all the blame on the special teams when the last two Chicago drives took 19 plays and covered 120 yards. All the defense had to do was make one freaking stop....and they just couldn't. No heart.

[Spider]

Come on you guys been here long enough to know how it works ..... Pick a part of the team and blame them for everything ....... Thats what made Griese so great , he took all of the blame

[lex]

The fact that a top-flight kick returner smoked our team was much LESS disappointing than our ****-can defense who let Grossman walk all over them for in that game.

Once again, the trees got in the way of people seeing the forest in that game.
Yes, Chicago benefited from some flashy returns. However, our defense blew a two-score lead late in the game that had nothing to do with punt returns.


http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=7553

By Andrew Mason
DenverBroncos.com

CHICAGO -- Time and again, the Broncos offense marched up and down Soldier Field. Time and again, the Broncos defense stymied the Chicago Bears offense. With six minutes left in regulation, the Bears were stultified; their home fans were frustrated.

But when the Broncos needed a clock-chewing drive the most, they couldn't get it. And when they needed a fourth-down stop, they couldn't find it. Those two circumstances defined the disastrous final moments of the game, during which the Bears scored 17 points while the Broncos ran just seven plays.

In less than 10 minutes of clock time, the Bears blocked a punt, drove for a touchdown, stopped the Broncos after six plays, scored another touchdown and then drove to the game-winning points -- a 39-yard Robbie Gould field goal that sealed a 37-34 defeat.

"I think it's a great example where you've got to play right to the end," safety John Lynch said. "It was a great effort. I looked up there deep in the fourth quarter and I think they had 180 total yards and they were frustrated. Fans were frustrated with them."

But by 6:49 p.m. CST, Bears fans weren't frustrated; they were frenzied. All the frustration belonged on the east sideline as the Broncos left with their third loss in as many games against NFC North opponents this year.

It was the Broncos' second overtime defeat in five games -- and for Brandon Marshall, whose 68-yard touchdown catch put the Broncos in front 27-20, it was painful to swallow.

"This one, I really don't understand," he lamented. Up by 14 with five and a half minutes to go, I don't understand."

The Broncos had spent the better part of three hours overcoming the kickoff- and punt-return exploits of Devin Hester to take a 34-20 lead. Hester's 75- and 88-yard runbacks for touchdowns had accounted for all but six of the Bears' points in the game's first 54 minutes.

But another special-teams play -- a Charles Tillman block of a Todd Sauerbrun punt -- turned the game irrevocably. In a way, Hester had a hand in the block, because Sauerbrun intended to punt out of bounds and away from the dynamic second-year returner.

"You know what, I didn't even see the guy, to be honest," Sauerbrun said. "I'm just supposed to get the ball off. We were punting the ball out of bounds on that one. We were going right out of bounds. If you watch me, I completely angled right out of bounds.

"The guy came right in my face, so (there was) nothing I could have done."

While the punt block turned the game's momentum, the Broncos still had chances to keep the Bears' rising tide from cresting. But an Adrian Peterson touchdown run and a Chicago defensive stop gave the Bears one final possession in the game's final minutes.

There, the Broncos were felled by two fourth-down conversions.

On the first, Rex Grossman threw incomplete for Muhsin Muhammad, but had the failed drive resuscitated when Dre' Bly was flagged for illegal contact.

"(The official) said it was illegal contact down the field. I felt like Muhsin ran into me," Bly said.

The Broncos managed to force the Bears into fourth down again -- fourth-and-goal at the Denver 3-yard-line. But Bernard Berrian ran a fade route, caught the Grossman pass and touched his knee on the end-zone grass just before the rest of his body landed out of bounds. Instant replay upheld the score with 28 seconds left in regulation, and the game was tied.

Denver then lost the coin toss to open overtime, and the Bears quickly moved into field-goal range, gaining 39 yards on a Grossman-to-Desmond Clark pass. After another first down and an intentional Grossman 3-yard loss, Gould stepped onto the field for the winning swing of his leg.

"It's tough because we had a lot riding on it," said a visibly anguished Brandon Stokley. "We played so well offensively and defensively. To make those mistakes like we did down the stretch and let them return those kicks and get a punt block, it's frustrating."

With the loss, the Broncos once again fell one game behind the San Diego Chargers in the AFC West standings and dropped to 5-6. The Broncos were fighting to get back above .500 for the first time since September.

Chicago, meanwhile, improved to 5-6 and moved back within one game of the final playoff spot in the NFC.

Running back Andre Hall was the offensive star of the game for the Broncos, pounding through the Bears for a hard-earned 98 yards on 26 carries while adding another 69 yards on two receptions -- all accomplished after injuring his ankle on the game's first play.

Hall ceded kickoff-return duties to Glenn Martinez but remained the primary ballcarrier.

"(The ankle) started getting worse and worse, but I knew the team needed me, so I stuck it out," Hall said.

After going over the 100-yard mark late in the third quarter, a series of losses pushed him back into double digits, symbolizing a collective effort that saw the Broncos unable to chew up the clock in the final minutes, giving the Bears an opening through which they drove for their late-game comeback.

Quarterback Jay Cutler finished the day with 302 yards on 17-of-31 passing with two touchdowns -- one to Tony Scheffler and another to Marshall -- and an interception.

Until the Bears offense awoke in the final moments, virtually all of their production came from Hester, whose third-quarter returns kept the Bears in the game.

"I feel like we got beat by one guy," Bly said.

Denver's offense managed to reply with two touchdown passes, but that only gave the Broncos a lead for a few moments. By the time the game ended, it was gone, and the Broncos' winning streak had evaporated in the chilly, damp night air.

"The field (stunk). The weather (stunk). But so what? They had to deal with it too," Sauerbrun said. "It was not a pleasurable day all around, regardless of anything.

"But they kicked our (butt). That's plain and simple."


This one play opened the door and the Bears walked through it. And also notice how Bly took no ownership in the loss even though he had the PI called against him.

[Seamus]

Denver's ST have never been really strong. When you look at what is going on and pulling Scott O"Brian into the organization, to me it better be a reality check to Shanny, is it the coaching or is it the personnel.

My recollection of special team plays that go bad for Denver have always been poor execution or mental errors, not that anybody didn't have the physical tools to make things happen (not counting the kicking, last year was really bad! Saurbrun may have had his issues, but Peterson?). This is preparation and coaching.
Quite a bit easier to change the coach than all the personnel. Maybe Scott knows the deck is stacked against him in sub-standard personnel and does "buddy up" to Shanny to keep his job and not loose his reputation.

I put out the John Lynch story for ST needing better coaching, a guy that was loosing the physical battles, however was able to play the game because he knew what was going on, so smarts can make up for physical ability in some situations.

[cutthemdown]

No staff is full of assistants that tell the HC to screw off I'm doing it my way.

[Cito Pelon]

Sure, Shanny likes yes-men on his assistant staff. Megalomaniacs tend that way.

[lex]

No staff is full of assistants that tell the HC to screw off I'm doing it my way.

Ive seen footage of Belichick telling Parcells to **** off back in their NYG days. I dont recall Parcells ever firing Belichick either. Why? Its because some people value competence over yes men.

[Spider]

No staff is full of assistants that tell the HC to screw off I'm doing it my way.

LOL you have to understand we are in lex's world right now .......anything goes

[cutthemdown]

Ive seen footage of Belichick telling Parcells to **** off back in their NYG days. I dont recall Parcells ever firing Belichick either. Why? Its because some people value competence over yes men.

so you want them to tell Shanny to **** off? And this will accomplish what?

[Cito Pelon]

LOL you have to understand we are in lex's world right now .......anything goes

Or you're in Shanny's world, and anything goes just fine there, eh? ;D

[Spider]

Or you're in Shanny's world, and anything goes just fine there, eh? ;D

Cant argue with Cutler ;D

[Drek]

1. O'Brien doesn't have any career ties to Shanahan.

2. He was a top special teams coach in Carolina.

3. He's only had one season with mediocre talent here.

4. The Chicago game was basically him and Shanahan both trusting a multi-pro bowl punter who said he wanted to kick to Hester. They bet on trusting a proven veteran, they got burnt. Big deal. And FYI, Buffalo is one of the best special teams units in the league, Parrish is a top returner year after year.

O'Brien now actually has a little talent, but its still young and inexperienced. We need to put more work into the back ends of our drafts, like we did this year, to make sure we keep bringing in new ST blood. That is the #1 thing we need to do if we want to get better on STs.

[summerdenver]

Before Hester's returns, Chi was barely able to get 1st downs. Those returns gave them a huge momentum swing. You could see the Bears looking like they can win the game for the first time. Our players started playing nervously and we saw what happenned. Yes Den could have won if Off got one more 1st down or Def stopped them once but IMHO, they had too much momentum going for them by that time.

Looking at whole year, I feel ST was not improved and it is valid to question O'Brien. But i would put the poor play more on our players rather than on his schemes or coaching. He was successfull everywhere before he came here so I would give him more time to improve the STs.

One thing that hurt us a lot last year was Todd's line driving kickoffs which did not give the coverage teams enough time. Kevin Everett's unfortunate injury also cost us Hixon who IIRC was the designated returner at the start of the year.

[Cito Pelon]

Back to the original argument, O'Brien is a good coach I think. As many have said though, until starters galore play on ST's there's gonna be problems. Over the years the best ST's in the league are loaded with starters. Not just a few here and there. In crucial games the best teams in the league trot out most of their starting team on ST's. It's a no-brainer.

[Dukes]

Wow. People work harder when the boss is around....and you translate that into these coaches being yes men?

Get a job, bro. Any job.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/nvrsumr/image004.jpg

[cutthemdown]

My point is instead of finding flash in the pan type of players , we need to find more Kieth Burns types , consistent week in week out

also just younger players in general. Keep looking for players in draft. Best thing Broncos have going right now Cutler/Marshall/Sheffler/Clady/Harris/Kuper on offense all draft picks.

It's almost like Broncos have learned there lesson on the big name FA bust method.

[Cito Pelon]

also just younger players in general. Keep looking for players in draft. Best thing Broncos have going right now Cutler/Marshall/Sheffler/Clady/Harris/Kuper on offense all draft picks.

It's almost like Broncos have learned there lesson on the big name FA bust method.

Yeah, as long as they are willing to play ST's. Engleberger gets a pass because he along with Elvis are willing to play the wedge - the gotdang wedge - on ST's. Some weaklings like Scheffler, Kuper, Harris, Marshall don't play ST's. Myers played the wedge on ST's, but they traded him to Houston. Wiegmann probably won't play the wedge. Hamilton, Nalen, Holland, nope. DJ, nope, Bly, nope, Foxworth and Paymah are sissy enough to not give good effort. Bad ST's, what a surprise.

[lex]

Before Hester's returns, Chi was barely able to get 1st downs. Those returns gave them a huge momentum swing. You could see the Bears looking like they can win the game for the first time. Our players started playing nervously and we saw what happenned. Yes Den could have won if Off got one more 1st down or Def stopped them once but IMHO, they had too much momentum going for them by that time.

Looking at whole year, I feel ST was not improved and it is valid to question O'Brien. But i would put the poor play more on our players rather than on his schemes or coaching. He was successfull everywhere before he came here so I would give him more time to improve the STs.

One thing that hurt us a lot last year was Todd's line driving kickoffs which did not give the coverage teams enough time. Kevin Everett's unfortunate injury also cost us Hixon who IIRC was the designated returner at the start of the year.


Actually, that was more the case after the punt block.

[lex]

so you want them to tell Shanny to **** off? And this will accomplish what?


If theyre doing their job, theyre accomplishing a lot. Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?

[gyldenlove]

I was massively disappointed by special teams last year, and to me it looks like more of the same so far in the preseason.

For some reason we only have 1 gunner downfield on punts, that is too easy to run away from as a returner. Royal, Martinez or whoever fields punts is pretty much looking at 2 gunners every time the ball comes down.

Our special teams woes come down to a couple of really simple things:

1. Poor execution, too many players out there are running around not doing a good job of what they are supposed to be doing.

2. Lack of leadership, you need a captain out there who can tell people who to block, and yell if the other team is changing something up. It is not like Keith Burns or Chukwurah were out there getting 5 special teams tackles every game, but they told people where to go and what to do.

3. System failure, it looks like our blocking on punts isn't solid. I have noticed a couple of kickoffs this offseason where our wedge has formed too far ahead of the returner allowing the head hunters to just run around it. On punt returns we do not block the gunners well enough, they have it too easy running towards the middle and getting open. The only place I am seeing improvement is on kickoff coverage, we are much better at hitting the wedge with our busters right before the head hunters come in for the tackle.

I don't think you can put the poor play down to just O'Brien and for the record I would like to see any special teams coach out there tell his head coach to ***k off during a game, maybe a DC or OC can get away with it, but not a special teams coach.

[lex]

I was massively disappointed by special teams last year, and to me it looks like more of the same so far in the preseason.

For some reason we only have 1 gunner downfield on punts, that is too easy to run away from as a returner. Royal, Martinez or whoever fields punts is pretty much looking at 2 gunners every time the ball comes down.

Our special teams woes come down to a couple of really simple things:

1. Poor execution, too many players out there are running around not doing a good job of what they are supposed to be doing.

2. Lack of leadership, you need a captain out there who can tell people who to block, and yell if the other team is changing something up. It is not like Keith Burns or Chukwurah were out there getting 5 special teams tackles every game, but they told people where to go and what to do.

3. System failure, it looks like our blocking on punts isn't solid. I have noticed a couple of kickoffs this offseason where our wedge has formed too far ahead of the returner allowing the head hunters to just run around it. On punt returns we do not block the gunners well enough, they have it too easy running towards the middle and getting open. The only place I am seeing improvement is on kickoff coverage, we are much better at hitting the wedge with our busters right before the head hunters come in for the tackle.

I don't think you can put the poor play down to just O'Brien and for the record I would like to see any special teams coach out there tell his head coach to **** off during a game, maybe a DC or OC can get away with it, but not a special teams coach.

No one is saying OBrian should tell Shanahan to **** off. Its being said that he isnt doing an adequate job having them prepared and if he was doing a more competent job, telling Shanahan to **** off would be more justified.

[NFLBRONCO]

I just wish Foxworth was as good as he thought he was.

I was cool with Foxy and figured he might need more time to get better. Then I heard someone ask him if he felt he could start in this league. He said,
I could start on any team in NFL. I like confidence but, geez his play isn't close to being a starter. He is a career #3 period.

[SoCalBronco]

I'm not impressed with O'Brien at all. Yes, he has the Buffalo game to point to but not a whole lot else. If we thought he could mask ST talent problems with good coaching, then we wouldn't have spent a 2nd on Royal.

I believe that O'Brien got this job primarily due to his reputation around the league (and this was mentioned in an article before awhile back) as being a head coach's eyes and ears within the building (i.e. snitching to the HC about what his assistants are saying). Given Shanny's personality type, its obvious that this was appealing to him.

[TheReverend]

I'm not impressed with O'Brien at all. Yes, he has the Buffalo game to point to but not a whole lot else. If we thought he could mask ST talent problems with good coaching, then we wouldn't have spent a 2nd on Royal.

I believe that O'Brien got this job primarily due to his reputation around the league (and this was mentioned in an article before awhile back) as being a head coach's eyes and ears within the building (i.e. snitching to the HC about what his assistants are saying). Given Shanny's personality type, its obvious that this was appealing to him.

There's SO many speculative Shanahan stories that none of them mesh.

If he surrounds himself with yes men, why would you need a Scott O'Brien snitching to you about dark corner meetings? Why would Shanahan hamstring his special teams and offensive/defensive field position? So he can hear what people say behind his back? Strangely, I haven't seen an ounce of give a **** in that man towards what anyone thinks about him. Maybe we need Gaffney to investigate, as he can unearth even the obscurest of conspiracies.

The whole thing is silly. These guys have resumes and deserve their positions.

[sixtimeseight]

I'm not impressed with O'Brien at all. Yes, he has the Buffalo game to point to but not a whole lot else. If we thought he could mask ST talent problems with good coaching, then we wouldn't have spent a 2nd on Royal.

I believe that O'Brien got this job primarily due to his reputation around the league (and this was mentioned in an article before awhile back) as being a head coach's eyes and ears within the building (i.e. snitching to the HC about what his assistants are saying). Given Shanny's personality type, its obvious that this was appealing to him.

http://www.tfhp.org/images/tinfoil-hat.jpg

[cmhargrove]

You know, I think O"Brien must be a fine coach, he has proven it before. Now, we are adding more "football players" like Woodyard and Hillis to the roster, our ST ought to improve.

Being a fan has its ups and downs, but give this a little thought.

If we didn't punt to Hester, we probably wouldn't have Ryan Clady, and might have chosen Chris Williams.

Deep thoughts from Jack Handy...



Prater may be the best thing we ever did for ST. Screw PR and KR. His touchbacks will save our season - especially if our LB's are suspect. As long as we slow down opposing offenses and make them drive 80 yards, we have improved our ST by double! No ****, I said it - double!

All we need is to be away from our own goal line to have a chance to score. If we consistently start out near the 30 - that is a huge plus. However, driving the ball doesn't seem like it will be our problem this year.

The touchbacks are huge. We haven't had that in a long time.

[Kaylore]

Alec already hit the nail on the head. O'Brien has improved the special teams everywhere he's gone. Denver's ST was bad before he got here and have been average at best since Shanahan has been head coach. In the other areas in the league, a lot of starters play special teams. Shanahan won't do that and I personally feel his system of only letting the backups play ST is flawed. Maybe this year they'll have a break out year and be above average. I have a lot of faith in O'Brien, but not so much in the guys on the field.

[lex]

Alec already hit the nail on the head. O'Brien has improved the special teams everywhere he's gone. Denver's ST was bad before he got here and have been average at best since Shanahan has been head coach. In the other areas in the league, a lot of starters play special teams. Shanahan won't do that and I personally feel his system of only letting the backups play ST is flawed. Maybe this year they'll have a break out year and be above average. I have a lot of faith in O'Brien, but not so much in the guys on the field.

Criticism of Shanahan and O'Brian arent mutually exclusive. Whether the players arent that great or not, there have been some situations the Broncos should have been ready for but werent...which goes back to coaching. Just because he doesnt have the best players on ST, it doesnt mean O'Brian should get a pass for his guys not being coached up on situational football.

[chickennob2]

So... loses his job with Kiffin on monday?

[lex]

So... loses his job with Kiffin on monday?
Damn, you beat me.