It was the best of times ... it was the worst of times.

[BroncoBuff]

Offense rocks.

Defense sucks.

Get used to it.


That is all.

[cutthemdown]

yep

[BroncoBuff]

We need a real safety, cuts ...

[MO<1>]

We need a real safety, cuts ...


Have you seen Barrett and Woodyard? Look at their stats!

[Taco John]

Hate to look backwards, but I sure wish we had Larry Coyer right now. Say what you want about his teams down the stretch, but they always started the season strong.

[hambone13]

Hate to look backwards, but I sure wish we had Larry Coyer right now. Say what you want about his teams down the stretch, but they always started the season strong.

Go to sleep.....We need units that gel and maintain late and through the season...

[MO<1>]

Hate to look backwards, but I sure wish we had Larry Coyer right now. Say what you want about his teams down the stretch, but they always started the season strong.

I feel your pain, but things are GOOD. The first test is against Tomlinson, Chambers, and Gates- and then you can relax until Foxboro.

[Blueflame]

Hate to look backwards, but I sure wish we had Larry Coyer right now. Say what you want about his teams down the stretch, but they always started the season strong.

I think Coyer did an exceptional job with the personnel we had on our roster at the time. And Hambone, injuries happen. When a team is so injury-depleted at CB that they have Roc Alexander trying to cover Reggie Wayne in a playoff game, I don't care who you have as DC, it's still a mismatch that's gonna be exploited all day long.

[hambone13]

I think Coyer did an exceptional job with the personnel we had on our roster at the time. And Hambone, injuries happen. When a team is so injury-depleted at CB that they have Roc Alexander trying to cover Reggie Wayne in a playoff game, I don't care who you have as DC, it's still a mismatch that's gonna be exploited all day long.

Hambone what? Our defense didn't maintain late in the season because of injury. Our defense depleted late in the season because everyone figured out how we were getting to them, too early, with limited talent and great execution.

[TheChamp24]

We need a real safety, cuts ...

but, according to mostly everybody here, Abdullah is a stud Pro Bowl talen safety!

[Blueflame]

Hambone what? Our defense didn't maintain late in the season because of injury. Our defense depleted late in the season because everyone figured out how we were getting to them, too early, with limited talent and great execution.

Right... and Roc Alexander was on the field in a playoff game because our other CBs were healthy. ::)

[hambone13]

Right... and Roc Alexander was on the field in a playoff game because our other CBs were healthy. ::)

Roc Alexander and Wesley Woodyard are busy working on conquering the planet? Careful what you say, I hear their gear is numbered 1984.

[Blueflame]

Roc Alexander and Wesley Woodyard are busy working on conquering the planet? Careful what you say, I hear their gear is numbered 1984.

Point is...if our defensive starters had in fact been healthy, Roc Alexander's role would have been confined to bench-polishing.

[PaintballCLE]

well i think the run defense this year is much better. ANd don't forget we still don't have champ in there.

[hambone13]

Point is...if our defensive starters had in fact been healthy, Roc Alexander's role would have been confined to bench-polishing.

My point being, the Defense was fragile. You're actually helping me make it?

[Rock Chalk]

Offense rocks.

Defense sucks.

Get used to it.


That is all.

Heres a tampon you overreacting pussy.

[Blueflame]

My point being, the Defense was fragile. You're actually helping me make it?

No, your contention was that rival teams ("everyone") figured out our defensive scheme ("how we were getting to them"). Our defense was decidedly not "fragile".... but the "talent (or skill) gap" between our starters and our backups was huge. Injuries are unpredictable and often simply due to bad luck; not bad coaching. Coyer did very well with the talent he had at the time.

[MO<1>]

Coyer was great.

Our opponents didn't figure out our defense- our own players couldn't. They just had to figure out when our defense was the most confused.

If a coach is lucky, there is the talent to play what you want. If you don't have the talent, then you develope tactics to hide your weakness and emphasize your strengths. Out of 200K playing college football each season, there are 32 teams with 53 man rosters or roughly 1,700 that are talented enough to play in the NFL. That is why we pay to see them play instead of playing Madden on Sunday.

[hambone13]

No, your contention was that rival teams ("everyone") figured out our defensive scheme ("how we were getting to them"). Our defense was decidedly not "fragile".... but the "talent (or skill) gap" between our starters and our backups was huge. Injuries are unpredictable and often simply due to bad luck; not bad coaching. Coyer did very well with the talent he had at the time.

You're well spoken. I appreciate that.

Yes Coyer did very well with the talent he had at the time. That is my point in general. However, I don't necessarily believe that was his own inherent brilliance. He certainly added to it but I don't believe it was "Coyer" that was the catalyst of the success. He did a good solid job of managing "us" in to the top 5 D's early in the season but brought no creativity or continuity, just the management of the system in place with no added input or creativity.

The comments that Shanahan was willing to make publicly regarding Ted Sudquist are reminiscent of a similar situation. "If you don't have the balls and/or brains to keep up (preferably both), then you're not going to be here. At some point you need to take the reins."

I don't think Coyer was humble/young enough to take this kind of direction. HE wasn't right for the system.

[hambone13]

Coyer was great.

Our opponents didn't figure out our defense- our own players couldn't. They just had to figure out when our defense was the most confused.

If a coach is lucky, there is the talent to play what you want. If you don't have the talent, then you develope tactics to hide your weakness and emphasize your strengths. Out of 200K playing college football each season, there are 32 teams with 53 man rosters or roughly 1,700 that are talented enough to play in the NFL. That is why we pay to see them play instead of playing Madden on Sunday.

I think you're thinking of Bates?

[Atlas]

Offense rocks.

Defense sucks.

Get used to it.


That is all.

Oh yee of little knowledge. The defense hasn't shown anything this preseason. Wait to see what they unvail for the Raiders on MNF. They aren't going to be great. I figure they'll finish between 10-15 in total defense when the season is over.

Just wait and see, don't be a hater.

[db56]

the defense probably wont be the strength of the team but to say they will suck is just a toke over the line. our schizaphrenic leader has made us endour many a trials and errors over his tenure see "Bates 4 man rush D scheme" but I think going back to solid concept on D will (RIP) allow us to be good enough. if the offense can average high 20's, this will make a huge difference. IMO

[Rock Chalk]

I think Coyer did an exceptional job with the personnel we had on our roster at the time. And Hambone, injuries happen. When a team is so injury-depleted at CB that they have Roc Alexander trying to cover Reggie Wayne in a playoff game, I don't care who you have as DC, it's still a mismatch that's gonna be exploited all day long.

No he didn't.

You people continually underestimate the value Al Wilson brought to the team. Not only was he a top notch MLB, even hurt, but he was football smart. He knew where everyone needed to be and directed them to be there.

Coyer's inability to stop Pittsburgh even once in the first half of the AFC Championship game because of his lack of ability to make adjustments is indicative of why he is not here.

Id take the defense Coyer had with our current DC over the this current defense with Coyer any day of the week.

[Drek]

No he didn't.

You people continually underestimate the value Al Wilson brought to the team. Not only was he a top notch MLB, even hurt, but he was football smart. He knew where everyone needed to be and directed them to be there.

Coyer's inability to stop Pittsburgh even once in the first half of the AFC Championship game because of his lack of ability to make adjustments is indicative of why he is not here.

Id take the defense Coyer had with our current DC over the this current defense with Coyer any day of the week.
Pretty much completely agree.

Our DBs didn't start really causing turnovers until Slowik came to down. Until then under Coyer teams just passed away from Champ and victimized our other CBs and safeties. Slowik's backfield schemes had an immediate impact.

Also Al Wilson was literally a one man top 10 run stopping defense. The fact that much of that time we gave him a fully functional Ian Gold, who wasn't a bad LB in the least, and guys like Mobely (very good), Spragan (solid) and DJ shows the high level of talent we had at LB Coyer's entire time here.

Also Dumervil is looking pretty good but Bert Berry and Reggie Hayward both had pretty comparable seasons before walking out of town.

The personnel now has a lot more youth and upside, but Coyer had more to work with in terms of succeeding ASAP than Slowik currently does. Even sitll he never could make a half-time adjustment in games or late season adjustments as we had injuries and teams got a book on our D.

I think our D is going to be solidly average this year, it won't amaze but it won't get gashed in the running game non-stop a la last year and it won't get picked apart by good passers a la the years before. We won't be stellar in any one area and we'll have down weeks, but we'll be solid across the board and occasionally actually have real big games too.

[Rock Chalk]

I cant stomach another season of getting gashed in the run game. Its just too painful to watch.

We will be better vs. the run thanks to Robertson and Thomas' improvement, but we will probably still suffer on outside runs which does not bode well against SD and Ladainian.

[dreasher54]

I agree that we will be much better against the run because of robertson. We will still be better on outside runs but not quite up to speed.

[kappys]

I cant stomach another season of getting gashed in the run game. Its just too painful to watch.

We will be better vs. the run thanks to Robertson and Thomas' improvement, but we will probably still suffer on outside runs which does not bode well against SD and Ladainian.

Sad to say but my real hope is that the SD running game won't be as effective this year. they seemed to slow a bit last year and aren't getting any younger

[broncofan7]

what sickened me most about last night was that our Corners still line up 7-8 yards off the ball and then proceeded to miss tackles when the receiver cathces it in front of them---I understand that champ is more comfortable playing off of his man, but Dre needs to be pressing EVERY play. He is horrid off the ball.

[JCMElway]

Sad to say but my real hope is that the SD running game won't be as effective this year. they seemed to slow a bit last year and aren't getting any younger

I think Lorenzo Neal being gone will slow them down a bit.

[gunns]

I cant stomach another season of getting gashed in the run game. Its just too painful to watch.

We will be better vs. the run thanks to Robertson and Thomas' improvement, but we will probably still suffer on outside runs which does not bode well against SD and Ladainian.

I agree about the run defense. And yes SD will be the test for that run defense. But I'm wondering how healthy LT will be. They've been smart to sit him out in the preseason but is that the only reason? Turner is gone and so is O'Neal. Will they have the same success? That aside I'm praying our run defense makes me think I'm right when it comes to SD because Phyllis cannot carry that team.

[Popps]

No he didn't.

You people continually underestimate the value Al Wilson brought to the team. .

Not me. I said when we left that we needed to groom a true MLB to replace him. We never did.

[Play2win]

Champ leads the league in INT's. That is all...

[Play2win]

Not me. I said when we left that we needed to groom a true MLB to replace him. We never did.

You might as well quote bob or wolf. Please don't.

BTW- My hope are we somehow get rey-rey from USC in 09...

[bronco0608]

It's the preseason folks.

We don't need this defense to be dominant, just solid and I think we will be.

We will probably finish in the top half in the league in points and yardage given up. We are back to the "bend don't break" days of Coyer. Teams will get a lot of underneath stuff but nothing big on our defense.

If our offense is as good as it is suppose to be, we can easily finish 10-6 and make the playoffs with this defense.

If anything, our depth on defense is exceptional, just not extremely talented.

We are nine deep on the line, seven deep with LBs, and 10 deep with the DBs.

If Indy could have been a top defense with a bunch of no-names over the past three years, so can we. Or let's not stretch it, top 15 in points given up will be a major upgrade with this team

I don't see less than top 15 with this D because of the philosophy of Slowik.

[Sassy]

It was the best of times...it was the worst of times...it's PRESEASON...GET OVER IT!

[want2bAbronco2]

I'll wait to judge the D until a few real games. I still say we are 1yr away if we get a real Mike, FS, SS, and DE. It's sad watching a 4th get pressure while a 1st and 2nd wouldn't find the QB if he walked passed them.

[Kaylore]

I think peole are overreacting. Our defense is going to be somewhere in between what you saw against Dallas and last night. Last night there was no plan and we did next to nothing in our scheme. Against Dallas we had a scheme and created pressure, but gave up some plays when they picked up our blitz. Like I said, our defense will be better than this during the season.

[TheChamp24]

It's the preseason folks.

We don't need this defense to be dominant, just solid and I think we will be.

We will probably finish in the top half in the league in points and yardage given up. We are back to the "bend don't break" days of Coyer. Teams will get a lot of underneath stuff but nothing big on our defense.

If our offense is as good as it is suppose to be, we can easily finish 10-6 and make the playoffs with this defense.

If anything, our depth on defense is exceptional, just not extremely talented.

We are nine deep on the line, seven deep with LBs, and 10 deep with the DBs.

If Indy could have been a top defense with a bunch of no-names over the past three years, so can we. Or let's not stretch it, top 15 in points given up will be a major upgrade with this team

I don't see less than top 15 with this D because of the philosophy of Slowik.

We actually don't have much depth. I mean, does bringing in a below average player really constitute as having good depth?
As for defense, I think we could finish in the middle of the pack in yards given up(we were 19th last year in this department), but what about points given up? I see us hurting there.
This defense has a lack of quality depth, lack of talent and is a below average defense at this point.

[Spider]

Offense rocks.

Defense sucks.

Get used to it.


That is all.

;D got to disagree with you about d .........

[Rock Chalk]

I agree about the run defense. And yes SD will be the test for that run defense. But I'm wondering how healthy LT will be. They've been smart to sit him out in the preseason but is that the only reason? Turner is gone and so is O'Neal. Will they have the same success? That aside I'm praying our run defense makes me think I'm right when it comes to SD because Phyllis cannot carry that team.

LT never plays in pre-season Gunns. I dont think he even did his rookie year.

With Lorenzo gone that will hurt their power running game but LT can run without a FB. His patience at waiting for the hole to open up and his vision is every bit as good as Priest Holmes in his prime, probably better. Its the outside runs that are going to hurt us...I think. Particularly to Bly's side because let's face it. The guy cannot tackle worth a damn. Perhaps we are just spoiled because Champ is such a great tackler, but Bly is going to hurt us in the run game if teams start running that way.

I do think we will be better up the gut. Better DTs and DJ is not in the middle. DJ just isnt very good at shedding blockers and you have to be to be a MLB. Hopefully he will have more success again at the Will, but he needs to drastically improve his ability to shed blockers or not get blocked at all.

SD wont be as strong as they were last year. They had a formidable team last year but they are still going to be a tough out regardless.

[wolf754life]

6 wins, offenses will go nuts on us, rogers was 16 0f 19 at the half, you don't make the playoffs with that kind of defense.

[Spider]

6 wins, offenses will go nuts on us, rogers was 16 0f 19 at the half, you don't make the playoffs with that kind of defense.

LOL ........ there ya are .how ya doin buddy ? I figured last nights game was an emotional hell for you ...... but in the end we lost , so you got some comfort in that ....... last night proved shanahan has an eye for talent , and he did pick some good players over the last 3 years ........

[gunns]

LT never plays in pre-season Gunns. I dont think he even did his rookie year.

With Lorenzo gone that will hurt their power running game but LT can run without a FB. His patience at waiting for the hole to open up and his vision is every bit as good as Priest Holmes in his prime, probably better. Its the outside runs that are going to hurt us...I think. Particularly to Bly's side because let's face it. The guy cannot tackle worth a damn. Perhaps we are just spoiled because Champ is such a great tackler, but Bly is going to hurt us in the run game if teams start running that way.

I do think we will be better up the gut. Better DTs and DJ is not in the middle. DJ just isnt very good at shedding blockers and you have to be to be a MLB. Hopefully he will have more success again at the Will, but he needs to drastically improve his ability to shed blockers or not get blocked at all.

SD wont be as strong as they were last year. They had a formidable team last year but they are still going to be a tough out regardless.

I am shocked that you would use Priest as an example when I found TD as one of the most patient runners. Agree on Bly and DJ.

[Rock Chalk]

I am shocked that you would use Priest as an example when I found TD as one of the most patient runners. Agree on Bly and DJ.

When LT cracks 2000 I will compare him to TD sweetie ;D

Dont get me wrong, as a football fan, I LOVE to watch LT run. He is an excellent football player. As a Bronco fan I ****ing hate LT. But he reminds me more of Priest than he reminds me of TD. TD had vision like no other back save MAYBE Walter Payton. He had power, wasnt gifted with the best speed but was fast enough to make a normally 8-12 yard gain into 30 or 40 yards.

LT is just an overall back. I dont think he necessarily is the best at any aspect of his game, like Priest, but is pretty damn good in every aspect of the RB position.

[BroncoBuff]

Oh yee of little knowledge. The defense hasn't shown anything this preseason. Wait to see what they unvail for the Raiders on MNF. They aren't going to be great. I figure they'll finish between 10-15 in total defense when the season is over.

Just wait and see, don't be a hater.
Yeah, that's what Khan said, we're still vanilla. And I suppose we did stop the Cowboys pretty well. I like the rookies Woodyard and Barrett ... but I wanna see Jordan Beck play like Shanny was praising him in mini-camp.

It's tough to digest the game in a bar with no sound. I did, however, get to see Argentina's one goal to win the Gold Medal. That would not have happened at home. So I got that going for me too....

[BroncoBuff]

Heres a tampon you overreacting p***Y.
This is exactly the kind of post I've been missing lately.
Are you settled in Denver yet, tampon-boy?
I guess this means you'll be at the OM Weekend ... oh good grief....

I still gotcha squeezed in between Obama and Pezman, Row 2 of my ... "friends" http://www.myspace.com/caseyrockstar

[TomServo]

It's the preseason folks.
watching bates try to hammer square pegs into round holes last preseason was exactly what we got all year.
the teams 2nd best player wasnt even on the field and we beat last years best nfc teams.

[Cito Pelon]

The 1st team D in preseason has been mostly seems to me basic 4-3 but moving the SS into the box on early downs to stop the run. Then the nickle has been used a lot on potential passing downs. I haven't seen a lot of over/under shifts, but I expect to see that in reg season. So it hasn't been a pure vanilla D. The D sure looks like it's gonna get gashed for long drives and have trouble getting off the field on 3rd down against the best-coached and skilled O's. However, that's not a show-stopper since the O I think has a lot of scoring potential against even the best of D's. I'm thinking the object should be to create TO's on D, and the ST's have to be good to get into the playoffs.