Cutler further along than the two QBs taken ahead of him

[cutlerfan]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-2-303/Cutler-further-along-than-the-two-QBs-taken-ahead-of-him.html

Cutler further along than the two QBs taken ahead of him

August 18, 2008 4:30 PM


Posted by ESPN.com' s Bill Williamson


Doug Pensinger/Getty Images
Jay Cutler completed his first 12 passes of Saturday's game against Dallas.
As of right now, Jay Cutler is the best quarterback of the 2006 rookie draft class. Cutler, the Denver Broncos' quarterback, is better than Tennessee's Vince Young and Arizona's Matt Leinart. There's no question about it.

Young was No. 3 overall of that draft by Tennessee and Leinart went 10th to Arizona. Cutler was taken by Denver with the next pick. The third QB taken that year is ahead of the first two quarterbacks.

Last weekend's preseason action is proof of it. Cutler followed up a nearly flawless training camp and two days of slicing up the Cowboys in a joint workout by completing 16 of 20 passes against the Cowboys on Saturday night. Cutler completed his first 12 passes of the game.

While Cutler was flourishing in Denver, Leinart was trying to find his game in Kansas City. Leinart had to come off the bench because Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt decided to start veteran Kurt Warner instead. Leinart was shaky at first but he rebounded and completed 7 of 11 passes for 62 yards and led the Cardinals on a touchdown drive.

But let's face it. Leinart is entering his third season and he is in a quarterback battle with a player who now must be considered a journeyman. Sure, Leinart missed most of last season with an injury, but he has a long way to go before he can prove he is ready to be difference-making quarterback in the NFL.

On Friday night, Young, who regressed as a passer at times last season, struggled mightily against visiting Oakland. Young couldn't generate any offense. He completed 4 of 13 passes for 37 yards in five drives. Young was even booed some by the Tennessee fans.

Young is far from a lost cause. He is wonderful with his legs and he is a proven winner. Young will be the Titans' quarterback for a long time. There's no denying that.

There's also no denying that he isn't as far as long as an NFL quarterback as Cutler is. I have backup support here. In an ESPN.com story by Mike Sando last year, Cutler was expected to do big things, according to NFL scouts.

He appears ready to do them, while the first two quarterbacks selected in the 2006 draft are still trying to find their way.

Cutler is playing at a high level. Who knows which one of the three will end up being the best NFL quarterback, but there is no denying that, right now, Cutler is the best.


Denver Broncos, Tennessee Titans, Arizona Cardinals, Jay Cutler, Vince Young, Matt Leinart

[watermock]

This is the kind of hard nosed, in depth reporting that makes me miss ole burger bill...

[chawknz]

Soon we'll be debating who the top QB is in the league, not just the 06 draft.

Can't wait! :D

[crowebomber]

Well, if Burger Bill says it, it must be true, right?

Seriously, I don't think there is any question who the best QB is out of the three. Cutler had a great year last year and will push for a probowl bid this year.

But the media would like one of the other two to breakout. Young is flashy and got all the hype after the draft, so they are still hoping he raises his game, and Leinart makes for better offseason stories with his Hollywood persona.

Cutler's only story is that he's battling diabetes which isn't all that juicy.

[Bladerunner]

he's right that Cutler is ahead of Leinart and Young, but it never ceases to amaze me how irrational exuberance spings to life every pre-season...pre-season games don't mean a thing...

Jon Kitna has a perfect QB rating through two pre-season games.

(rests case).

[Arkansas Bronco]

Does he really have to post this? I mean who that actually follows the NFL doesnt already know all this.

[bronco militia]

This is the kind of hard nosed, in depth reporting that makes me miss ole burger bill...

:rofl:

[BroncoBuff]

Leinart is entering his third season and he is in a quarterback battle with a player who now must be considered a journeyman.
Whoa there big boy. Kurt Warner is a two-time NFL MVP, and a Super-Bowl MVP who quarterbacked probably the best offense in league history. He is NOT a journeyman, he's a probable Hall-of-Famer who's content to play out his career on a lesser level.

[montrose]

Jay was better than both when they were drafted, was better their rookie years, better last year and is better now. Every former QB or coach I can think of prior to the draft said Jay was the best. I think we're past the point of even comparing Jay to the Class of '06, it's time to start comparing him with Palmer, Brees, Hasselbeck, McNabb, etc.

[Jason in LA]

I bet Mel Kiper would strongly disagree with this. He doesn't want to admit that he was wrong about the QBs coming out that year.

At this point there is no question who is the best out of the three so far. Leinart hasn't done anything on note, and Young has been very inconsistent. Last year Cutler became a top 15 QB. His next step is to become a Pro Bowl QB. That can't be said about either Leinart of Young. Leinart is pretty much playing for his career this season. If he doesn't become a decent QB this year he's going to become a journeyman QB. If Young doesn't improve he could be looking at the same thing within a couple of years.

[Jason in LA]

he's right that Cutler is ahead of Leinart and Young, but it never ceases to amaze me how irrational exuberance spings to life every pre-season...pre-season games don't mean a thing...

Jon Kitna has a perfect QB rating through two pre-season games.

(rests case).

I've made that same point for years. Good or bad, I don't look at it is a true indicator as what will happen during the regular season. Ryan Leaf looked great during his first preseason.

I'll base it on last year, when Cutler was clearly better than the other two QBs, and the reports out of camp saying that he has looked even better. The fact that Leinart didn't even start the last game tells me all that I need to know about him.

[Jason in LA]

Whoa there big boy. Kurt Warner is a two-time NFL MVP, and a Super-Bowl MVP who quarterbacked probably the best offense in league history. He is NOT a journeyman, he's a probable Hall-of-Famer who's content to play out his career on a lesser level.

Warner has a very outside shot of making the HOF. I don't think he gets in. He's nowhere near what he was when he was with the Rams. At this point he is a journeyman QB. He wouldn't start for most teams in the league.

[colonelbeef]

You don't have to point to this preseason's stats to back this up- last year's stats do that well enough

[Beantown Bronco]

The more I read things like this and the more I think about it, the more I am thankful that the first 10 picks of the draft went the way they did. It's funny that nobody mentions it now, but there was a real possibility that the Broncos were going to select Matt Leinart with their pick if one of two things happened:

1. If they moved up to 8, 9 or 10 as they tried to do.
2. If both Leinart and Cutler were there at 11.

People focus solely on Shanny's discussion with Jeff Fisher prior to the draft to justify why they went with Cutler, but they never mention the real possibility that they would've pulled the trigger on Leinart if he fell.....like he almost did.....and the discussion with Fisher likely would've never seen the light of day.

[BroncoBuff]

Warner has a very outside shot of making the HOF.
Fair enough, but I hope you appreciate he has a slightly better shot than TD.

[broncofan2438]

Not hard to see that Cutler is clearly better than the other two

[Jason in LA]

Fair enough, but I hope you appreciate he has a slightly better shot than TD.

I disagree with that. Because TD's career was cut short by an injury. Warner did have the thumb injury, but how long ago was that, and did it drasticly affect his career? Why did he go from being great to being a guy who bounced around the league? If he career was over because of the thumb injury then I'd say that he would have a great shot. But he's continued to play, and suck. He's had too many bad years that probably don't have anything to do with an injury.

[DeuceOfClub]

Brandy Croyle was and is the best QB taken in the 2006 draft.

[Popps]

This won't even be a debate after this year. Cutler is going to close the case on this silly argument... hell, probably by mid-season.

Leinart may not even start, and Young doesn't have the weapons around him to put up meaningful numbers. He'll make a few highlight runs, and his team will probably perform fairly well, but he won't be the dynamic, multi-dimensional QB Cutler will be.

[Garcia Bronco]

Fair enough, but I hope you appreciate he has a slightly better shot than TD.

I don't think so.

[cutlerfan]

We here at Vandy knew this all along, but I also credit Mort.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/insider/columns/story?columnist=mortensen_chris&id=2307306

Let's get something straight right off the mark. This is not a knock against Matt Leinart or Vince Young. This also is not a knock against my colleague and friend Mel Kiper Jr., our ESPN draft scout, who does a terrific job.
However, this I'm pretty sure about: Jay Cutler of Vanderbilt is the best quarterback available for the NFL draft come April.
I am not alone. A bunch of NFL scouts are whispering the same thing during Senior Bowl week in Mobile, Ala. Some of those even will put out some "negatives" on Cutler deliberately in hopes that he'll drop a little in the draft. It's not going to work.
"It's not even worth trying to downgrade the kid ... hoping he slides," one top personnel director said. "The secret is out."
I have felt for almost a year now that Cutler is the best quarterback prospect, and nothing has changed my mind. If anything, he has even solidified his standing now that I've had the pleasure and benefit of personally seeing him play in the Southeastern Conference.
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/nfl/2006/0126/photo/cutler_195.jpgLori Young/ESPN.com
Could Jay Cutler end up getting drafted before Vince Young and Matt Leinart?


Cutler was the All-SEC first-team quarterback selected by coaches and the media. He was the preseason pick, too. Heck, he was a first-team All-SEC choice as a redshirt freshman.You know how difficult that is when you play at Vanderbilt in a conference with many of the nation's heavyweights?
A scout for one of the NFL's top personnel departments supported this notion in November after he did some cross-checking on the SEC quarterbacks.
"It can't be fun playing quarterback in the SEC," the scout said. "I mean, most of the teams are five and six deep at cornerback -- it's not even close when you compare it to the Pac-10. The speed on defense across the SEC is ridiculous. The defensive coordinators, well, some of them should be coaching in the NFL. Some of them have, in fact. Playing quarterback in the SEC is a task. Playing it well every week is a bigger task."
This scout marveled at Cutler's performance with inferior personnel around him.
"Unbelievably competitive with the physical skills to back it up," the scout said.
Cutler's similarities to Brett Favre (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=1025) are uncanny, except Cutler is far ahead of Favre in the mental aspects of the game at the same career stage. Cutler probably has the strongest arm in this draft. He has moxie. He has a swagger. As Favre did at Southern Mississippi, Cutler had Vandy winning games it had no business winning and competing in games in which the Commodores should have been blown out. As with Favre, his gunslinger mentality will get him in the doghouse with some NFL coach but the upside is way too high to let it bring him down. Oh, he never got his team to a bowl appearance? Neither did John Elway.
"Jay Cutler is special, like Elway and Favre," Bus Cook said.
Cook is supposed to say that. He is Cutler's agent. Oh, he also represents Favre and the Titans' Steve McNair (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3114), all three of them good ol' Mississippi men. Don't ask me how Cutler joined that club -- he hails from Santa Claus, Ind. It will be Christmas for any team that lands him.
The Titans, picking third in the draft, could be that team -- if Cutler gets past the New Orleans Saints (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nor) at No. 2. Titans general manager Floyd Reese has noted that Cutler is a blend of Leinart and Young. He's a terrific pocket passer like Leinart but with much greater arm strength. He's athletic enough to make plays out of the pocket, although Young is certainly a better athlete, just without Cutler's arm strength.
Arm strength is not the only measure of a quarterback, as everyone knows. But it's probably more important in today's NFL than ever before. For instance, defensive coordinators are talking about how tough it is to defend the Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6770) because he can throw it "outside the numbers" so well, meaning he has the arm to deliver the deep outs.
Leinart is clearly smart. Titans offensive coordinator Norm Chow, his former USC mentor, talks glowingly of how "everything runs on time" when Leinart is behind center.
Yet, in today's NFL, the clock is running faster than ever once the ball is snapped. The idea that a quarterback has a chance to go through his first, second and third progressions while he drops back is basically a myth. The throwing windows are tighter than ever on about 75 percent of the passes a quarterback must deliver. The RPMs matter in a quarterback's throws. There are some doubts about the ability of Leinart and Young to throw it through those closing windows consistently.
Take Cutler's arm, his smarts, his moxie, his toughness and his athleticism, and you have a pretty good model quarterback. To downgrade him because you see a few errant balls during Senior Bowl week is silly because these guys are working in a strange offense with new receivers.
Put Cutler in USC's offense and Leinart in Vanderbilt's offense the past couple of years and imagine what would have happened.
True, Leinart and Young have much more notoriety and the draft projections have them as the stars of the draft, along with USC running back Reggie Bush. But that's where a lot of people in and out of the NFL go shallow.
Cutler was almost bypassed in college recruiting out of high school before choosing Vanderbilt. That wasn't his fault. Somebody missed. It happens a lot. As I've stated many times, the NFL spends millions of dollars on scouting and still gets it wrong more than 50 percent of the time on quarterbacks. So why would it surprise you that colleges would fare even worse?
One of the best players in Super Bowl XL is Seahawks linebacker Lofa Tatupu (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7221), who should have been the hands-down selection for NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year. You know how many Division I scholarship offers he had coming out of high school? None.
Yes, it's early to be talking about the draft. But it's Senior Bowl week, and I've almost never been more excited about the draft than I am about the one coming up in April. The complaint last year is that it was a weak top-10 class. This year, it's ridiculously strong. You have three quarterbacks in Cutler, Leinart and Young. You have a future Marshall Faulk (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2728) type in Bush; his rushing mate LenDale White might be another Jamal Lewis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5034). D'Brickashaw Ferguson could be a future Pro Bowl left tackle. North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams could be another Julius Peppers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5888). Ohio State middle linebacker A.J. Hawk could be another Ray Lewis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3542), and Maryland tight end Vernon Davis could be another Tony Gonzalez (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3950).
Yes, I know I'm leaving somebody out.
Don't be shocked if Cutler is the first quarterback taken in the draft. It's not a lock, but Leinart and Young could go behind him. Regardless, I'm not sure that's a negative on either one of those guys, anyway.
In Cutler, maybe we have another Favre or Elway. In Leinart, we might have another Steve Young (minus the athleticism). In Vince Young, he's not Michael Vick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5448) fast, but he is 6-5, he is competitive and he is an intriguing prospect.
I'd like to think that there's something for everybody, except there are always busts. I just know the one guy I'd buy stock in right now is Cutler.
ESPN's Chris Mortensen is a regular contributor to Insider. He chats every Wednesday in The Show (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/index).

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The more I read things like this and the more I think about it, the more I am thankful that the first 10 picks of the draft went the way they did. It's funny that nobody mentions it now, but there was a real possibility that the Broncos were going to select Matt Leinart with their pick if one of two things happened:

1. If they moved up to 8, 9 or 10 as they tried to do.
2. If both Leinart and Cutler were there at 11.

People focus solely on Shanny's discussion with Jeff Fisher prior to the draft to justify why they went with Cutler, but they never mention the real possibility that they would've pulled the trigger on Leinart if he fell.....like he almost did.....and the discussion with Fisher likely would've never seen the light of day.

Detroit picked at #9 and a lot of people thought they wanted a QB, which is why Denver called Buffalo about moving up to #8. Mike Martz was in Detroit at the time.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/04/29/five.things.draft2/index.html

And Mike Martz ... well, Martz requested that I not quote him on Cutler, but let's just say he thinks Cutler's one of the best quarterbacks he's ever seen come out of college.

and Martz's high opinion of Cutler wasn't a complete secret. It's not a foregone conclusion that Leinart was the trade up target.

[Beantown Bronco]

It's not a foregone conclusion that Leinart was the trade up target.

Agreed. Never said it was....just that it was a real possibility. There were just as many folks/talking heads pimping Leinart at the time.....and, few if any will admit to it now, but a good percentage of the folks here wanted Leinart more than Cutler pre-draft.

[montrose]

My biggest thing on Jay is how I hear about he's going to be a great QB. This is true, but I think people underestimate how good he was last year - and I'm not saying for a 2nd year QB. Jay's 2007 season made him one of the top 10 QB's in football. He didn't improve one lick from 2007, he'd still be good enough to lead the Broncos to the Super Bowl.

With that, we all know that now his diabetes is being treated, and he's continuing to learn, which is exciting. There's no reason that he couldn't be the best QB in football within the next five years - especially if the OL's Pass Protection continues to improve.

[Atlas]

Warner has a very outside shot of making the HOF. I don't think he gets in. He's nowhere near what he was when he was with the Rams. At this point he is a journeyman QB. He wouldn't start for most teams in the league.

Warner is NOT getting in the HOF..... He just isn't. He had two great years in a fluke offense. He was a bust in NY and he is a bust in Arizone. That is not HOF material.

[Atlas]

Fair enough, but I hope you appreciate he has a slightly better shot than TD.

TD will eventually be in the HOF Warner has NO shot.

[Broncos4Life]

I don't get it. Didn't we all know that Cutler was farther along last season? Bill is just realizing this? And I really wonder which of the three will be the best QB. I'm really unsure of this man. I just don't know about Cutler. Somebody help me out.

[Atlas]

I don't get it. Didn't we all know that Cutler was farther along last season? Bill is just realizing this? And I really wonder which of the three will be the best QB. I'm really unsure of this man. I just don't know about Cutler. Somebody help me out.

We all realized it but not the rest of America. Many people still think Young is better. His wonloss record is much better even though he is just a horrible passer.

[Thegrizz]

Okay so this is my first post here, and I want to say hello to everyone! After reading this discussion I figured I would put a few of my own ideas into the mix.

First, I have to agree that Cutler, barring serious injury, is going to be a great QB for many years to come. I also think he was the best of his draft and am happy the gunslinger field general quarterback is not dead.

Next, while this is off topic, I don't believe Warner has a serious shot at the HOF, there are a lot of players who performed much better than he has over the course of their careers and still have not made it in.

I also feel the same way about TD, however what I think is going to cost him the HOF is not his short career, but the fact he came from Denver, and thus the "system". I think this is very unfair and truly believe TD should be in there along with Gradishar, Mecklemburg, Tombstone Jackson and Floyd Little.

Also if I spelled any of those names wrong please correct me.

[cutlerfan]

Agreed. Never said it was....just that it was a real possibility. There were just as many folks/talking heads pimping Leinart at the time.....and, few if any will admit to it now, but a good percentage of the folks here wanted Leinart more than Cutler pre-draft.

Leinart reminds me a lot of Jake Plummer in the way he throws the ball. Neither will jam the ball between people like Cutler can.

[lookin' glass]

A little off topic and regarding Martz, there is talk that Martz prefers JT OSullivan over Alex Smith. I know there were some here who were very high on Smith. Suppose the 49ers cut Smith, any takers amongst the Bronco throngs here?

[lostknight]

I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that we sould have drafted Leinart. In particular Leinart reminded me (and I am sure Shanny) way too much of Brian Griese.

Quarterbacks like Steve Young, or Montana do awesome - when they have the right tools around them. Quaterbacks like Farve (used to be), Elway and Cutler are capable of winning, with even poor tools.

And now Cutler has Marshall, and Royal.

There is absolutly no doubt in my mind that the 2006 draft may be just the greatest draft in this franchises history.

[alkemical]

Okay so this is my first post here, and I want to say hello to everyone! After reading this discussion I figured I would put a few of my own ideas into the mix.

First, I have to agree that Cutler, barring serious injury, is going to be a great QB for many years to come. I also think he was the best of his draft and am happy the gunslinger field general quarterback is not dead.

Next, while this is off topic, I don't believe Warner has a serious shot at the HOF, there are a lot of players who performed much better than he has over the course of their careers and still have not made it in.

I also feel the same way about TD, however what I think is going to cost him the HOF is not his short career, but the fact he came from Denver, and thus the "system". I think this is very unfair and truly believe TD should be in there along with Gradishar, Mecklemburg, Tombstone Jackson and Floyd Little.

Also if I spelled any of those names wrong please correct me.

Welcome to the 'mane

[Borks147]

Quarterbacks like Steve Young, or Montana do awesome - when they have the right tools around them. Quaterbacks like Farve (used to be), Elway and Cutler are capable of winning, with even poor tools.



Steve Young was ridiculously athletically gifted and a constant running threat in the early to mid part of his career, and easily could have carried a mediocre team (except one as downright crappy as the bucs of the late 80s).... don't pool him with Montana just because they played on basically the same team.

[BroncoBuff]

TD will eventually be in the HOF Warner has NO shot.
.... said the Broncos fan. I'm a Broncos fan too, but I concede the reality is Warner has at least as good a shot as TD. He was a two-time league MVP, Atlas, he QB'd probably the best offense in league history. And like it or not, he's padding his career stats every year now :nono:

[Bronx33]

Brandy Croyle was and is the best QB taken in the 2006 draft.


That sir! was determined by a field and stream poll!

[Bronx33]

Okay so this is my first post here, and I want to say hello to everyone! After reading this discussion I figured I would put a few of my own ideas into the mix.

First, I have to agree that Cutler, barring serious injury, is going to be a great QB for many years to come. I also think he was the best of his draft and am happy the gunslinger field general quarterback is not dead.

Next, while this is off topic, I don't believe Warner has a serious shot at the HOF, there are a lot of players who performed much better than he has over the course of their careers and still have not made it in.

I also feel the same way about TD, however what I think is going to cost him the HOF is not his short career, but the fact he came from Denver, and thus the "system". I think this is very unfair and truly believe TD should be in there along with Gradishar, Mecklemburg, Tombstone Jackson and Floyd Little.

Also if I spelled any of those names wrong please correct me.


Kaylore will be with you shortly. ;D

[SoDak Bronco]

This is the NO $hit thread of the week...

[Kaylore]

Kaylore will be with you shortly. ;D

Dude I suck at spelling. I just use Firefox so it tells me when I mess up. I do know "Mecklemburg" is wrong, though.

[bombay]

Fair enough, but I hope you appreciate he has a slightly better shot than TD.

The HOF arguments for TD and Warner are very similar. Four GREAT seasons followed by essentially career ending injuries, although TD hung it up when he couldn't play at a top level and Warner has slogged along.

[Abqbronco]

Whoa there big boy. Kurt Warner is a two-time NFL MVP, and a Super-Bowl MVP who quarterbacked probably the best offense in league history. He is NOT a journeyman, he's a probable Hall-of-Famer who's content to play out his career on a lesser level.

Great take. I stopped reading after this. Journeyman indeed...

[BroncoBuff]

The HOF arguments for TD and Warner are very similar. Four GREAT seasons followed by essentially career ending injuries, although TD hung it up when he couldn't play at a top level and Warner has slogged along.Great take. I stopped reading after this. Journeyman indeed...
I was reading Atlas's take (slam?) on Warner, and I had deja vu ...

Sure enough, 18 months ago, I prodded Atlas with a thread on this exact same topic, and he gave as good as he got :~ohyah!: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=53383


Another very interesting parallel between TD and Warner: They both had Hall-of-Fame mirrors of each other's positions, RB/QB, in John Elway and Marshall Faulk.

[Atlas]

.... said the Broncos fan. I'm a Broncos fan too, but I concede the reality is Warner has at least as good a shot as TD. He was a two-time league MVP, Atlas, he QB'd probably the best offense in league history. And like it or not, he's padding his career stats every year now :nono:

He has no shot. No shot. I promise you. Warner might be in the pop warner HOF but that is it. He is a proven failure the last 5 years.

[hambone13]

Warner is NOT getting in the HOF..... He just isn't. He had two great years in a fluke offense. He was a bust in NY and he is a bust in Arizone. That is not HOF material.

He could always get in on his grocery stocking skills and choice in classy women, don't you think? Not every woman can sport a feather boa with that kind of class....

[Atlas]

I was reading Atlas's take (slam?) on Warner, and I had deja vu ...

Sure enough, 18 months ago, I prodded Atlas with a thread on this exact same topic, and he gave as good as he got :~ohyah!: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=53383



Wow Buff when I called you a "Numb nuts" I was out of line and I sincerley apologize.

Oh and I gave way better than I got!!!

[BroncoBuff]

Wow Buff when I called you a "Numb nuts" I was out of line and I sincerley apologize.
Really? From you I took that as a compliment ::)


Or was this "apology" just an excuse to call me a numb nuts again?

[Rock Chalk]

I bet Mel Kiper would strongly disagree with this. He doesn't want to admit that he was wrong about the QBs coming out that year.

At this point there is no question who is the best out of the three so far. Leinart hasn't done anything on note, and Young has been very inconsistent. Last year Cutler became a top 15 QB. His next step is to become a Pro Bowl QB. That can't be said about either Leinart of Young. Leinart is pretty much playing for his career this season. If he doesn't become a decent QB this year he's going to become a journeyman QB. If Young doesn't improve he could be looking at the same thing within a couple of years.

It will be tough for Cutler to become a pro-bowl QB. The AFC is where all the great QBs are and Cutler is good, but not great. Not yet.

With Manning, Brady, Palmer and now Favre in the conference, not to mention Big Ben (he must be included, Steelers get much better press than Denver and has a bigger fan base so when talking QBs we must include him or we are not being realistic), he has a long climb ahead of him.

And if Derek Anderson has another year like last year he will be getting a crapton of praise from the media.

You also have to consider that when the games get to full speed full time, Cutler will be playing behind an offensive line that does still have a lot of question marks, and will be without his best receiver for at least two games.

Im not saying he cant be, Im saying its highly doubtful he will be this year or even next year. No knock on Cutler, just too much experience int he conference and too many other better teams will make it difficult for him.

[Jason in LA]

^^^I agree that it is going to be tough for Cutler to make the Pro Bowl, but the group that you mentioned is the group that he's trying to get into. His next step is to be lumped in with those guys, which would mean that he has become an elite QB. Leinart and Young aren't close to getting into that group.

[Rock Chalk]

^^^I agree that it is going to be tough for Cutler to make the Pro Bowl, but the group that you mentioned is the group that he's trying to get into. His next step is to be lumped in with those guys, which would mean that he has become an elite QB. Leinart and Young aren't close to getting into that group.

Well as of right now, neither is Cutler.

He is closer than those two sure. A lot closer but still far away.

But QBs are judged by wins. Cutler does not have a winning record. When he gets one sometime next year, he will start to work his way up that ladder but you will never see a QB with a mediocre record in the pro-bowl no matter how good he is. Never. Fans (you know, the voters) just dont use logic when they pick them (players for the pro-bowl).

[Abqbronco]

My neighbor is a huge Rams fan and we have had this same conversation many times over many beers. We have agreed that when we are asked to vote for the HOF we will support each other vehemently.

Warner did have a good year last year and I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat out Leinart for the job.

[rovolution]

Well as of right now, neither is Cutler.

He is closer than those two sure. A lot closer but still far away.

But QBs are judged by wins. Cutler does not have a winning record. When he gets one sometime next year, he will start to work his way up that ladder but you will never see a QB with a mediocre record in the pro-bowl no matter how good he is. Never. Fans (you know, the voters) just dont use logic when they pick them (players for the pro-bowl).

Dan Fouts became a pro football hall of famer playing on mediocre teams.

[Kaylore]

But QBs are judged by wins.

Not really.

[BlaK-Argentina]

Anyone else think that if Jay has a great season the coaches and players will vote him to the pro bowl? I know they got Al Wilson in a few years ago. Media and fans may not recognize his talent but I'm sure the coaches and players will.

In any case, I expect great things from Jay this year and the pro bowl doesn't mean anything anyway.

[Abqbronco]

Not really.

Like who?