Concerned about DE Pressure

[Premier-Ace55]

Our defensive end play is making me real nervous but i was thinking....
Question for anybody that watched the houston came real closely did they see jarvis or dumervile do any moves other than bull rush?
I was hoping perhaps since this is the preseason maybe the coaches are having them try specfic techniques or focus on specifc plays like stunting or on the bull rush for an extended amount of time. Otherwise i'm real concerned because what I saw of Jarvis Moss he doesn't look very effective as a rusher and he should be that at the very least. He also doesn't appear to have alot of pass rushing manuevers. What is everyones thoughts???

[broncosteven]

Mediator had a great post game write up in his thread. Look it up.

[cmhargrove]

We defenitely didn't see the "whole Elvis" against Houston. He's a much faster player that always gets held and can bring the speed every down.

I think we were a little vanilla.

Robertson may be the key - hope he stays healthy...

[Broncos_OTM]

Mediator had a great post game write up in his thread. Look it up.
Med didnt say anything about what the guy is asking...

[azbroncfan]

There will be no QB pressures as long as John Engleberger is in the game. He can be one on one blocked by the likes of George Foster and the rest of the line can handle the rest of the linemen.

[Garcia Bronco]

Any DE is only going ot be as good as the rest of the line. If our DT's come to play, our DE's will see benefits.

[broncosteven]

Med didnt say anything about what the guy is asking...

Ok so he didn't go into swim move vs Bull rush but he did cover the fronts presented and no use of stunts: lots of good info:

They employed 4 different basic fronts last night, including the Bates scheme and four point stances for most of the second half. The most interesting twist is putting a S on the LOS presnap and not just walking him down into the box late like most teams do.

They seem determined to keep teams from gouging the inside plays like they did last year, but they left the CB's exposed to the short passing game in doing so. Foxworth and Paymah played as well as they could based on what the defense was giving HOU. Bailey and Bly are not going to make that much better if at all. Still, they did not give up any big plays, except for the TD to Anderson. That was a total Front seven Cluster **** as Paymah was left to cover Anderson alone on the whole backside of the field and Rosenfels had all day to make that throw. I am sorry, but that is not the CB's fault and he still had very good coverage.

The front seven was still very hesitant in making their reads and getting explosively upfield. That sucks, because it looks like they should be playing an aggressive one gap scheme, but they executed it very poorly and were terrible playing the run laterally. Early in the game, Schaub was getting rid of the ball quickly and so was Rosenrosen (gratuitous Fletch reference), so the lack of a passrush was moot as they were getting the ball out before anyone was going to get there. Later in the game, they were trying to use the Bates front to produce Pressure from the Front four only on the QB and it was still awful. Only when they brought 6 on the rush did they force the QB to throw sooner than he wanted.

DL: Marcus Thomas was active and looked good on some plays, but his two big plays were more from missed assignments and blocks than actually beating someone straight up. Kenny Peterson was ok but got his butt whipped on running plays where he did not get penetration. Real inconsistent from play to play. Engleberger is still not a pass rush threat, but he seems to never make mental mistakes and that right there is why he starts and some more talented guys are sitting behind him. Dumervil played but he was not in there enough to make a difference and he is still a massive liability versus the run unless they play the S right next to him, which also takes away any outside pass rush he might provide being there on early downs. Makes you scratch your head a little on why they are doing it that way.

The Backup DL: Moss was OK and did get two pressures from my count. Those were the only times they did not roll protection away from him, so when he gets one on one he was doing alright, but he is not going to beat many double teams especially when the rest of the DL has zero pass rushing ability. Crowder just confirmed all my worst fears last night. Great Physical specimen, horrible at understanding the game and making adjustments. Blew 5 different reads by my count, and then I stopped counting! None of the other DT's are even worth mentioning, they were just awful.

[colonelbeef]

Robertson is entirely the key as cmhargrove said above. If he commands attention up the middle as he should, it will open up a world of pain for speed off the ends. God forbid Robertson and Thomas play well this year, Elvis, Moss and Co will benefit tremendously, as will Bly and Bailey when QB's are forced to make snap decisions

[Premier-Ace55]

It certainly sounds that Robertson and thomas will be key to gaining a push up the middle however I think that i'im going to have to reserve judment regarding the pass rush.
- Engleberger may not be a great pass rusher but he is tuff on the run something that Elvis definiatley is not right now and something that Jarvis will have grow into (and i literally mean grow)
Thanks for posting mediators comments i saw them earlier however like the other poster said it wasn't really applying to what i was saying but it still gave me a reference point i over looked. I think i'm going to just review some more games and hope that our young DE's get better with time and reps and are hopefullly just holding back some pass moves.

[broncofan2438]

It'll come along. I think each end is just cleaning its wheels. THey are getting their timing down and trying to understand certain moves. Not to be alarmed here

[Mediator12]

Our defensive end play is making me real nervous but i was thinking....
Question for anybody that watched the houston came real closely did they see jarvis or dumervile do any moves other than bull rush?
I was hoping perhaps since this is the preseason maybe the coaches are having them try specfic techniques or focus on specifc plays like stunting or on the bull rush for an extended amount of time. Otherwise i'm real concerned because what I saw of Jarvis Moss he doesn't look very effective as a rusher and he should be that at the very least. He also doesn't appear to have alot of pass rushing manuevers. What is everyones thoughts???

Here is what I saw:

1. Dumervil and all the DE's were poor getting off the ball. It may be the 5th player on the LOS and the new gap responsibilities that come with it. However, the MOST IMPORTANT thing in pass rush is getting off the ball faster than the OL. This is one thing DEN has struggled mightily with for years.

2. As for moves, I saw a good amount of poorly set up moves. They looked real rusty and not very sharp with their techniques. Some people were flat out laughable trying some spin moves ;D I watch all of INDY's games and John Teerlink, a former DEN DL coach, has got his whole lot of DE's setting up an inside spin move already this season. DEN's DE's were just not very sound versus HOU.

3. I watched all of Moss's tape coming out of Florida, and he was the second most natural pass rusher behind Gaines Adams in that draft. His technique was nowhere near as Good as Dumervil's coming out of Louisville though. Dumervil had to have perfect technique to beat LT's, Moss can do it from pure athleticism. His talent and skills have not gotten good enough together to beat T's consistently. As for specific moves, he has a few good ones including a power move. His best is the speed Club. He needs work to improve his counter though when the OL gets position on the edge and counters this move. A nice Counter Club or inside spin would be a great tool, but I have yet to see him execute one.

[socalorado]

All i know is as of today, D-Rob AND MThomas have looked very good in the time they have played vs HOU and DAL so far. (like Steve said, read and watch!)

That is the most encouraging news any of us could have hoped for in regards to BOTH the DT/DE positions.
I just want them to use D-Rob sparingly in practice, and then have a battery powered remote controlled wheelchair for his big @$$ so he doesnt have to walk EVER, when he isnt actually playing in a game.

[chrisp]

A decent run defense with no pass rush got us as far as the AFC championship, so if we're only that good this year I'll be happy.

Lets not forget that last year our biggest problem was our complete inability to stop the run, something that hadn't really been an problem since about 1992! If we've only fixed that, and the rest of the defense is as it was, then it will be respectable overall and the offense will get a chance to win us some games, so that's what we should all be worrying about, not the pass rush.

But the other thing is, these young guys need some real games before we can make any judgements - you can only read so much into preseason performances. Give it time.

....and I thought all the postgame panicking and hand-wringing from had died down......

[telluride]

I rewatched the Houston game on NFLN last night, I have to say that Moss kinda, well, sucked. He seemed always out of breath and always a step behind the play. Was getting manhandled by 3rd-string Texans. He played essentially the entire game, and did nothing.

Quite distressing, actually.

[cmhargrove]

I rewatched the Houston game on NFLN last night, I have to say that Moss kinda, well, sucked. He seemed always out of breath and always a step behind the play. Was getting manhandled by 3rd-string Texans. He played essentially the entire game, and did nothing.

Quite distressing, actually.

Give it time, we'll get the full picture by the third game with Green Bay. Moss played 6 games. He is still basically a rookie. The obvious thing is he is trying extremely hard to get better. The 10 million dollar question is - will he?