vince young to be an elite qb

[tsiguy96]

as per john clayton:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3529616

espn ftl.

[Borks147]

****ing crypt keeper

[DukeWoody]

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/South-Park-tv-b17.jpg (http://www.starpulse.com/Television/South_Park/gallery/SOUTHPARKBRC18/)

Fugg Clayton and what he thinks!LOL LOL ESPiN can go fugg themselves too!

[tnedator]

We'll see. He has been a playmaker -- especially using his feet. Whether or not he can turn into an elite, all-around QB definately falls under "time will tell"

[Dedhed]

I predict that after this season it will be impossible for the talking heads to support anyone other than Cutler as the best QB to come out of that draft, and the only "elite" QB of the bunch.

[dbfan21]

I love flying under the radar!!! Nobody is recognizing the youth and talent Denver has on the team. I hope articles such as this just add fuel to the fire and reall inspire the Broncos to go out there and show the league what they're made of.

Here's to Vince and Matt getting all of the national pub and to Jay for being the first to hoist the Lombardi!

[no-pseudo-fan]

History should serve as a guideline.

Running QB's who are not accurate throwers never truly make it. The problem is that these players read their own press clippings and have early success as runners, then the league or a upset linebacker brings them back to the pack. Once they are confronted with having to be a pocket passer, they fall apart. It is more of a domino effect with them, they can no longer run so those throwing windows get smaller, and the INT's come and the confidence leaves.

The best of the running QB's was Randall Cunningham, and even he never really made it to elite status, and Young is no Cunningham. Only running QB that made it was Steve Young, and that was due to hard work and a lot of time on the bench behind Joe Montana. Remember Steve Young in Tampa, U G L Y

[maher_tyler]

History should serve as a guideline.

Running QB's who are not accurate throwers never truly make it. The problem is that these players read their own press clippings and have early success as runners, then the league or a upset linebacker brings them back to the pack. Once they are confronted with having to be a pocket passer, they fall apart. It is more of a domino effect with them, they can no longer run so those throwing windows get smaller, and the INT's come and the confidence leaves.

The best of the running QB's was Randall Cunningham, and even he never really made it to elite status, and Young is no Cunningham. Only running QB that made it was Steve Young, and that was due to hard work and a lot of time on the bench behind Joe Montana. Remember Steve Young in Tampa, U G L Y

I think McNabb could be put into the running QB's that made it IMO.

[NaptownChief]

Remember Steve Young in Tampa, U G L Y


That was more due to the fact of how horrible the Bucs were than anything else. Any and all QB's would have looked horrible in that situation.

But I agree poor passers trying to be NFL QB's on their legs alone hasn't worked in the the past and probably never will. If you are a good passer and oh by the way you can run well also then that is a nice benefit but putting the ball where it is supposed to be is 95% of the job and if you can't do that then you can't be a good NFL QB.

[Atlas]

Personally I think Clayton is the best around. As far as Young, I think he'll be a good QB. A Steve McNair type that wins with intangibles and physical play more than being a great thrower.

He'll never be great though. I was the one that said Young was going to be a bust in the NFL. I said that I wouldn't select him before the third round and that I would rather have Brodie Croyal and Kellen Clemens over Young..... So I was a little off on that he'll be a good QB in the NFL, just not a great one.

[no-pseudo-fan]

I think McNabb could be put into the running QB's that made it IMO.

I never considered McNabb a running QB. I think that he has made a huge effort to stay in the pocket and throw the ball, sometimes to his own determent.

[Rohirrim]

Clayton must have missed the Dogboy Vick show.

[Kaylore]

Young isn't inaccurate, he just makes bad mistakes and doesn't have anyone at receiver. Some of you need to go back and re-watch the MNF game.

[no-pseudo-fan]

Young isn't inaccurate, he just makes bad mistakes and doesn't have anyone at receiver. Some of you need to go back and re-watch the MNF game.

I have seen a lot of his games. He is not consistantly accurate. Some of it may be his throwing motion, some may be his decision making, and some may be the WR's he has, but game in and game out I don't see him being able to beat people with his arm.

[NaptownChief]

doesn't have anyone at receiver.


That is the excuse usually made for poor passing QB's as they have this wonderful ability to make their WR's look poor.

Roddy White was one of the many first day busts in Atlanta until Ron Mexico left and all of the sudden he is a Pro Bowler even with low rent QB's like Harrington, Leftwich and Redmon throwing to him.

[theAPAOps5]

Where is Alec to defend his boyfriend. ;D

They guy can make plays but not in the ways an Elite QB can make plays. Thats the difference. I never trust John Clayton anyways. He was on the debate team or chess team while football practice was going on in school!

[Los Broncos]

Drugs are bad, mmmmkay.

[Beantown Bronco]

I never considered McNabb a running QB. I think that he has made a huge effort to stay in the pocket and throw the ball, sometimes to his own determent.

Watch even a little bit of him when he was at Syracuse and you'll likely change your mind. He has obviously elevated his game in the NFL, but there's no way he gets drafted so early if not for his legs.

[Kaylore]

That is the excuse usually made for poor passing QB's as they have this wonderful ability to make their WR's look poor.

Roddy White was one of the many first day busts in Atlanta until Ron Mexico left and all of the sudden he is a Pro Bowler even with low rent QB's like Harrington, Leftwich and Redmon throwing to him.

All I know is when we played him he made every throw on MNF and had four major drops where he hit his guy in stride. I saw nothing in that game that suggested he wasn't accurate.

[enjolras]

All I know is when we played him he made every throw on MNF and had four major drops where he hit his guy in stride. I saw nothing in that game that suggested he wasn't accurate.

EVERY QB we faced looked like a hall of famer...

[Atlas]

EVERY QB we faced looked like a hall of famer...

That would be funny if it wasn't so true!!!

[no-pseudo-fan]

That would be funny if it wasn't so true!!!

Except KC's QB's, even we weren't that bad

[Orange_Beard]

I think he is right.

Not a slam on Jay, he will also be great.

[Rock Chalk]

History should serve as a guideline.

Running QB's who are not accurate throwers never truly make it. The problem is that these players read their own press clippings and have early success as runners, then the league or a upset linebacker brings them back to the pack. Once they are confronted with having to be a pocket passer, they fall apart. It is more of a domino effect with them, they can no longer run so those throwing windows get smaller, and the INT's come and the confidence leaves.

The best of the running QB's was Randall Cunningham, and even he never really made it to elite status, and Young is no Cunningham. Only running QB that made it was Steve Young, and that was due to hard work and a lot of time on the bench behind Joe Montana. Remember Steve Young in Tampa, U G L Y

The problem with your theory is the accurate. Young isnt there yet. He needs some growing but he was a pretty accurate QB in college. Moreover, like McNabb, Young wants to pass. They have a serious problem of lack of wideouts to catch the ball. In the game against us, they have several drops that would have made it a much more difficult win (though I still think we win that game) had he had even decent receivers.

tndator or whatever his name is, is right. This is a time will tell if he becomes an elite QB. Same with Cutler. Cutler is not a great QB right now. He has all the tools to be one, but time will tell us if he can make the leap.

[rovolution]

All I know is when we played him he made every throw on MNF and had four major drops where he hit his guy in stride. I saw nothing in that game that suggested he wasn't accurate.

Against a Broncos defense that made Rex Freaking Grossman look like John Elway

[Kaylore]

Against a Broncos defense that made Rex Freaking Grossman look like John Elway

Grossman had a good fourth quarter and overtime. Young was good until the game was over.

[no-pseudo-fan]

The problem with your theory is the accurate. Young isnt there yet. He needs some growing but he was a pretty accurate QB in college. Moreover, like McNabb, Young wants to pass. They have a serious problem of lack of wideouts to catch the ball. In the game against us, they have several drops that would have made it a much more difficult win (though I still think we win that game) had he had even decent receivers.

tndator or whatever his name is, is right. This is a time will tell if he becomes an elite QB. Same with Cutler. Cutler is not a great QB right now. He has all the tools to be one, but time will tell us if he can make the leap.

What I see as the problem is, early success running the ball. This was the probem with Vick, and with Cunningham. You really on you're feet and athletic ability and do not work as hard on throwing the ball, and with one hit or scheme takes away your crutch and you struggle to adjust your game.

IMO, Young should be much more effective than he is. With LB's reluctant to drop too far back in fear of him running, the passing lanes should be wide open. Also, his throwing motion tends to lead to the ball sailing high when he is off. Time will tell.

Jay is not elite, yet, but I think he has the shortest distance left to travel in his jump to become elite.

[gyldenlove]

Vince Young will never be an "elite" QB in the sense that he will never light the league on fire with his numbers and he will never carry a team on his shoulders.

I have no doubt Tennessee can win a lot of games, but it won't be because of Vince Young, it will be because of a stifling defense and a solid running game, Vince Young just has to make sure they don't lose.

As for running quarterbacks, Donovan Mcnabb was never a true running QB, he is at most a good strambler like John Elway was. Daunte Culpepper probably has the single best season of a running quarterback, but his career is truly unremarkable.

I think Vince Young will lack behind Cutler quite a bit in terms of numbers and ability to carry a team, I feel with Cutler at your own 20 yard line and 2 minutes to go, you have a decent shot at a TD. With Vince Young I don't have that same feeling, that being said though, if I am up by 2 and have the ball at my own 20 with 2 minutes to go I would take Young over Cutler because he can move the ball slowly.

[ColoradoDarin]

What I see as the problem is, early success running the ball. This was the probem with Vick, and with Cunningham. You really on you're feet and athletic ability and do not work as hard on throwing the ball, and with one hit or scheme takes away your crutch and you struggle to adjust your game.

Exhibit A: Culpepper, Daunte.

[Jason in LA]

History should serve as a guideline.

Running QB's who are not accurate throwers never truly make it. The problem is that these players read their own press clippings and have early success as runners, then the league or a upset linebacker brings them back to the pack. Once they are confronted with having to be a pocket passer, they fall apart. It is more of a domino effect with them, they can no longer run so those throwing windows get smaller, and the INT's come and the confidence leaves.

The best of the running QB's was Randall Cunningham, and even he never really made it to elite status, and Young is no Cunningham. Only running QB that made it was Steve Young, and that was due to hard work and a lot of time on the bench behind Joe Montana. Remember Steve Young in Tampa, U G L Y

I have always thought of QBs as being in three categories. Pocket passer, running QB, and mobile QB. QBs who can pass and run are mobile QBs. QBs who can only run are running QBs. I wouldn't can a QB who puts up huge passing numbers a running QB. Young was an elite passer. It kind of disrespects him to call him a running QB. Elway was a mobile QB. I'd say that as McNabb got older and became a better passer, he went from a running QB to a mobile QB. Early in his career, when he was still learning, he had to use his running ability a lot more. Now he doesn't run nearly as much, and his passing numbers are a lot better.

I'd say that running QBs have more early success because they can make plays by running, where pocket passers struggle early on because they have to rely solely on their passing abilities. As the pocket passer becomes a better passer, he's going to become better than the running QBs who do not develop into good passers. If Young can develop into a good passer he's going to be really good. But if he always has to rely on his running ability, he's not going to last long, while a guy like Cutler may become an elite passer and have a long career.

[Jason in LA]

Exhibit A: Culpepper, Daunte.

I wouldn't use him as an example. He developed into an elite passer for a short period of time, and then it all fell apart for him. He had one of the greatest season's ever for a QB in '04 when he threw for 4700 yards, 39 TDs, and only 11 Ints, while completing 69% of his passes. That year Randy Moss missed three games due to injuries and wasn't 100% in the second half of the season. He had a few other really good seasons as a passer, and he stopped running as much. After he came back from the knee injury he ended up on the Dolphins and Raiders, who both suck ass. I believe he's had injuries with both of those teams too.

He ran early in his career as he was learning to become a good passer. When he learned how to be a good passer he was really good. Injuries and having to sign with horrible teams really killed his career.

[Broncoman13]

I predict that after this season it will be impossible for the talking heads to support anyone other than Cutler as the best QB to come out of that draft, and the only "elite" QB of the bunch.

Cutler will be the best of the bunch and he will be elite, but it is also possible that either Leinart or Young end up as elite QB's as well. Leinart possibly more so than Young b/c of Fitz and Boldin!

[Kaylore]

My problem is so many people say Vince Young = Michael Vick (and I suspect it's because he's black and he runs) and that could not be further from the truth. Young is 6'5" to Vick's 6'0". Darrell Hackney is as big as Vick. They don't play the same way either. Young can throw with touch and he is more a long strider than a speed junky the way Vick played. Young is also way more accurate than Vick was, though Vick had a stronger arm. Anyway I think the comparisons are off. I also never thought Vick would amount to much (and in some sense he still proved me wrong) but I think Young can be a very good QB in the league.

[no-pseudo-fan]

My problem is so many people say Vince Young = Michael Vick (and I suspect it's because he's black and he runs) and that could not be further from the truth. Young is 6'5" to Vick's 6'0". Darrell Hackney is as big as Vick. They don't play the same way either. Young can throw with touch and he is more a long strider than a speed junky the way Vick played. Young is also way more accurate than Vick was, though Vick had a stronger arm. Anyway I think the comparisons are off. I also never thought Vick would amount to much (and in some sense he still proved me wrong) but I think Young can be a very good QB in the league.

My comparisons to Vick and Young are more on the simplified game plan that they play with. Usually, a 1 or 2 read then run scheme. In the open field Vick is Barry and Young is Dickerson. I think that Vick never put in the time, and Young showed last year that he didn't put in the time to move forward with their career. Young still has a chance, and maybe Dinger can help, but I haven't seen it.

[gyldenlove]

My problem is so many people say Vince Young = Michael Vick (and I suspect it's because he's black and he runs) and that could not be further from the truth. Young is 6'5" to Vick's 6'0". Darrell Hackney is as big as Vick. They don't play the same way either. Young can throw with touch and he is more a long strider than a speed junky the way Vick played. Young is also way more accurate than Vick was, though Vick had a stronger arm. Anyway I think the comparisons are off. I also never thought Vick would amount to much (and in some sense he still proved me wrong) but I think Young can be a very good QB in the league.

There are several ways Vick and Young are opposites, Vick had a picture perfect throwing motion and release, while Young tends to sidearm and has an awkward windup. Vick lived purely on his speed, while Young lives on a combination of speed and power, it is pretty much like comparing Chris Johnson (Titans) to Lendale White (also Titans). Vick lacked the height to have command of the pocket and the touch to complete short passes, Young on the other hand because of his size is more comfortable in the pocket but lacks the true power to go deep.

I would add that Vick never had issues with a full playbook. With Young they had to shorten the playbook considerably because he couldn't learn all of it.

In terms of team play, I think Young is better suited to being a passer who can improvise and scramble when it is advantageous, with Vick you needed to add designed run plays to take advantage of his speed.

[NaptownChief]

I would add that Vick never had issues with a full playbook. .


That is not my impression. I know for a fact when he was a Va Tech they cut it down so that he was only required to read one half of the field. And as for Atlanta, I can't confirm with 100% but I remember hear anaylst talk about the OC's cutting down the playbook for him especially since they changed OC's and systems several times trying to find one he could run.

Watching him run the WCO he rarely made it passed two progressions before trying to run. So whether they cut it down or he chose to cut it down on his own, it was definitely reduced.

[cutthemdown]

Young isn't inaccurate, he just makes bad mistakes and doesn't have anyone at receiver. Some of you need to go back and re-watch the MNF game.

I think Young looks good enough to say he may be a great qb someday.

The one thing that is strange is his windup and delivery. Seems sort of strange to me.

[NaptownChief]

I think Young looks good enough to say he may be a great qb someday.

The one thing that is strange is his windup and delivery. Seems sort of strange to me.



It is not as long and slow as Leftwich but it is certainly odd.

It is impossible to put a fork in any QB after just two years but when you only throw for 2500 yards, 9 TD's versus 17 INT's in a full season it is fair to say you have a long, long way to go.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Vince Young is going to be an elite QB the day I wake up and bang Jessica Biel then go to my job as starting MLB for the Denver Broncos.

Yeah, probably not going to happen

[ShutDownPoster]

History should serve as a guideline.

Running QB's who are not accurate throwers never truly make it. The problem is that these players read their own press clippings and have early success as runners, then the league or a upset linebacker brings them back to the pack. Once they are confronted with having to be a pocket passer, they fall apart. It is more of a domino effect with them, they can no longer run so those throwing windows get smaller, and the INT's come and the confidence leaves.

The best of the running QB's was Randall Cunningham, and even he never really made it to elite status, and Young is no Cunningham. Only running QB that made it was Steve Young, and that was due to hard work and a lot of time on the bench behind Joe Montana. Remember Steve Young in Tampa, U G L Y

And coz of Shanny!

[Inkana7]

If you don't break double digits in TDs the previous year, you don't deserve to have the word "Elite" thrown around your name.

[broncosteven]

All I know is when we played him he made every throw on MNF and had four major drops where he hit his guy in stride. I saw nothing in that game that suggested he wasn't accurate.

This is why Khan's is the Superior.

There were a bunch of drops in that game. Also some bad decisions but they could have won that game if a couple of drives were extended.

[DeuceOfClub]

Young might be a good QB one day but to be ELITE you must have some brain

[Dedhed]

Cutler will be the best of the bunch and he will be elite, but it is also possible that either Leinart or Young end up as elite QB's as well. Leinart possibly more so than Young b/c of Fitz and Boldin!

Your head is as much a part of being an elite QB as physical ability, and I think Leinart lacks the commitment to be great. The book on Young thus far doesn't suggest elite either. His passing #s are pretty weak even for a 2nd year guy, and I think he lacks the capacity to pick apart an NFL defense.

[cutthemdown]

If Young doesn't get his Td's more then his INT and fumbles this yr I will start to say he won't be a good one. I think he might though I see some flashes from him that make me think he could get it together.

[cutthemdown]

My only worry with Cutler is his turnovers. I love how he zips the ball around. Cutler really improved how he approached scrambling last yr and it helped his game big time.

I think you will see Cutler even more deadly on the move this yr. I think you may see him run a tad more. By doing that just a bit he can freeze the defense when he starts to scramble and then pull up shy of LOS to launch 60 yrd bombs.

Cutler has those type of physical skills so I'm expecting so big big plays this yr from him

[Man-Goblin]

Young contemplated retirement after his first season because of the pressure. Elite QBs welcome the pressure because they get off on over-coming it.

Young will never be an elite QB.

[tsiguy96]

My only worry with Cutler is his turnovers. I love how he zips the ball around. Cutler really improved how he approached scrambling last yr and it helped his game big time.

I think you will see Cutler even more deadly on the move this yr. I think you may see him run a tad more. By doing that just a bit he can freeze the defense when he starts to scramble and then pull up shy of LOS to launch 60 yrd bombs.

Cutler has those type of physical skills so I'm expecting so big big plays this yr from him

i do that with him in madden all the time :wiggle:

[PaintballCLE]

i really hope when you are referring to young being elite.........you are talking about on madden. Because in real life i can see him being cut in the next 2 years......

[NFLBRONCO]

I predict that after this season it will be impossible for the talking heads to support anyone other than Cutler as the best QB to come out of that draft, and the only "elite" QB of the bunch.

Why??? Cutler plays in Denver they won't ever give much press to Cutler being best QB in 06.