DEN/HOU GAME THREAD - Part II

[Popps]

So, there should be a good deal of folks like myself seeing this for the first time tonight. We've seen the first round of reviews.

Impressions from the rest of you who are now seeing it? Maybe those watching it for the second time?

[Popps]

So far, I'm pretty much on par with what I've read. Though, Marcus Thomas made a great play. Shed a blocker and showed some nice speed and instincts tracking down the ball-carrier for a tackle that saved a big gain.

I also like how we tightened up around the goal line.

Early going still. But, the O-line looked crumby.

I know we're without starters, but they're passing at will on us.

[TheChamp24]

Passing game looks solid.
Pass defense looks horrible, but then, we don't have some guys playing. Still don't like the DL.
Our running game looked horrible.
Selvin Young, I do like what I saw from him though. Guy has some wheels and nice hands.

[broncosteven]

I would not sell Selvin short after a couple of touches and having Mario sheding Clady to make 2 great run stops.

I still think Selvin starts with Hall in for 10 inside touches.

[Popps]

Nice to see us implement the delayed screen. (Even though called back.)

[Blueflame]

The touchdown run was impressive...but...the cautious part of me wishes Cutler had gone OOB at about the 2 or 3 avoiding contact. I'm glad he wasn't injured.

[theAPAOps5]

Its hard to establish a pass rush when they are doing quick drops and passing for 5 yds. But it isn't what I would like to see.

Is it me or did Clady seem to get better as he played. Mario ate his lunch first few plays but he seemed to gather himself.

Royal is a burner he blew by his Corner on the miscommunication play.

[TheChamp24]

Its hard to establish a pass rush when they are doing quick drops and passing for 5 yds. But it isn't what I would like to see.

Is it me or did Clady seem to get better as he played. Mario ate his lunch first few plays but he seemed to gather himself.

Royal is a burner he blew by his Corner on the miscommunication play.

1. Yup, the middle of the field is wide open too.

2. I expect Clady to be a little nervous facing real game competition.

3. That would've been a TD if Royal ran a straight streak instead of cutting inside. He could be somewhat special, but we'll see.

[cutthemdown]

After seeing Ramsey throw that pick for that second time I realize how good Broncos must think Cutler is. Man that dude stinks. I can't believe he's even on our team. Broncos have a few of those on this roster, just outright how is this guy making tons of money playing football.

[Blueflame]

Ramsey sucks azz. That is all...

[bpc]

Just got through our 2nd offensive series:

Offense-

Cutler - Quiet confidence, he can really be special. With the line blocking the way they did against a quality defensive front, this could be one of the best passing teams Shanahan has ever had. On that note, it all comes back to the man delivering the balls. Man he has a strong arm. Timing is a little off with a few of his WR's... but you can see he is a step ahead of the defense on most snaps. He's really moving through his reads quickly.

Young - Didn't really have a chance to show his stuff because the run blocking wasn't very good. Catching the ball, he looks great. Probably one of the best threats we've ever had out of the backfield.

Marshall - Looked fine on the field.

Royal - Great head on his shoulder. Works hard, knows how to find holes in the zone and sit in them. Explosive too. I'm very excited for this guy to continue growing.

TE's - Normal unit, chipping away. Graham should have had a TD right down the seam but Cutler put a tad too much air on it.

OL - I was really watching this unit thus far.

Ryan Harris - I actually thought he has looked really good. His feet look quicker than Clady's. Violent hands and very active with them. Will deliver a blow to the DE's. He'll have a harder time with strong DE's but there aren't going to be many like Mario Williams. Still, I thought he more than held his own and did fairly well in the pass and run games. I'm actually really surprised by his play and excited. MIND you, I have to keep watching and he has had two penalties already but I call those first game jitters. He had back surgery last year, knocked him out of the preseason and and didn't play at all during the regular season. KEEP IT UP RYAN!

Chris Kuper - Very solid in all aspects. He's going to be a long term starter for this team.

Weigman - I thought he has been very steady in replacing Nalen. If this guy is a backup on our squad, we'll have a deep OL this year.

Hamilton - I thought he did very well. Clady and Ham need to get their front side blocking working better together.

Clady - It's a nice problem to have when you are so massive that technique really isn't an issue. That's whats going on here. Clady looks raw. Sloppy footwork, pad level, and hand placement. I think somebody reporting from camp this year said he doesn't get his butt down. Well, when you play against normal guys, you can get away with that. When you play against Mario Williams, you get lit up into the backfield. He's a pup... not throwing him in the fire HOWEVER, he has several miles to go with his technique. Unfortunately the best we can offer him as a challenge in practice is Engelberger. That won't help him against the better DE's in the league which Mario clearly is.

Defense -

Engelberger still starting is a joke.

Marcus Thomas looks more like the explosive presence that he did at UF his senior year. Better yet, they have him shaded as a 0 or 1 tech over the center which is really going to cause matchup problems for opposing offensive centers IF Thomas plays the way he is capable of playing.

Peterson is a better backup than starter. Good thing Roberson is coming back. I like his motor but gives too much at the POA.

The camera angles aren't great so it's hard for me to tell Elvis from Moss. I'm pretty sure I know Elvis... they both play out of a 4 pt stance but he seems to have a quicker burst but almost runs exclusively around OT's on the outside. WAY predictable. I've saw Moss in on a pass rushing down and fell down off the snap and the OT took advantage and fell on him. Man we really need him and Crowder to do something.

Our LB's are overpursueing like crazy.

I don't like Paymah (not consistent in any aspect) and i've also thought Foxworth is a little overated. McCree looks good though. HE jumped a pass on the five going in that should have been a pick going the other direction. We'll have some decent ballhawking safeties this year compared to what we had over the past couple years with Fergy and Lynch.

Back to the show!

[theAPAOps5]

After seeing Ramsey throw that pick for that second time I realize how good Broncos must think Cutler is. Man that dude stinks. I can't believe he's even on our team. Broncos have a few of those on this roster, just outright how is this guy making tons of money playing football.

Ok I take it back don't take the inverse of everything Cutthemdown says. This is spot on. Ramsey is absolutely pathetic.

[cutthemdown]

I would not sell Selvin short after a couple of touches and having Mario sheding Clady to make 2 great run stops.

I still think Selvin starts with Hall in for 10 inside touches.

Does Young seem like he is the type who can break tackles? I'm not seeing that in his game. I wonder if a back can be a stud in our system without the ability to run through some tackles here and there.

[TheChamp24]

Young I think can break some tackles, but he isn't going to be Jerome Bettis or Barry Sanders.

Also, Weigman got absolutely BLOWED UP on a run play by Pittman when it was 2nd and 5 from the 8 that resulted in a 4 yard loss.

Ramsey is horrible. The pick he threw should've been a 20ish yard completion to Colbert.

harris seemed to do alright actually when he was blocking, but sloppy mentally.

[summerdenver]

I actually think Harris played better than Clady as most of the time he was one on one without help. They did not show the illegal formation penalty but the offside call looked bogus to me. It seemed like Harris was quicker than other OL and it seemed like he was offsides.

Our pass rush is joke. Sage had completed his reads before dumping off. When I compare it to other teams i have seen like TB, Car, DaL, SD and even MIA we are bush league. If the DL plays like this the McCowns and Grossmans of the world will kill us like last year.

Per FO stats teams used 4th highest number of play action fakes against us and we were rated 30th defending them. I can see why now.

Having said that Cutler, scheff and Marshall can play for my team anyday.

[Greybeard]

Does Young seem like he is the type who can break tackles? I'm not seeing that in his game. I wonder if a back can be a stud in our system without the ability to run through some tackles here and there.

What was there to see? Young had four carries, and he has yet to see a hole. ???

-----

[Popps]

My wife took over the Tivo!

LOL

[Popps]

Btw... are they sitting Robertson as a precaution, or is his knee flaring up?

[Broncosfreak_56]

Btw... are they sitting Robertson as a precaution, or is his knee flaring up?

Precaution.

[Play2win]

Haven't read much, but we were able to push players in space...

if we can do that, we are in good times...

oh, and by the way, JAY has got a GUN and will be a stud!!!

[Willynowei]

So far I'm getting a lot more positives than what others are saying.

Quick notes.

Top to bottom, we have the fastest offense in the NFL.

Young is very good, he had very little to work with.

Moss got very few snaps so far, him and crowder both look GOOD, Houston's backup left tackle is very good though, who is it? Crowder got doubled twice when he pressed forwards.

Marcus Thomas has looked good - I'm happy about that, Peterson has looked very good.

Our linebackers are not much improved from last season aside from DJ so far. Safeties are faster crashing the LOS. Our coverage all game has been terrible, probably due to champ and bly out.

The play by play guys are retarded and saying things like, "the pressure is not there" when we are clearly getting pressure but our coverage guys can't stop a hitch. Sorry dumbass, but if their receiver runs a deep corner on Paymah - which involves one break and Moss is a step behind on hitting hte QB, that is not the D-line's fault.

Tighter alignments, 8 in the box often - i like it.

Some breakdowns especially on misdirection, lots of rust, so far I like what I see though, D-line is much much better than last year. LBs the same. Dont' know nething about our Dbacks as the starters are out.

Offense is better - mainly because Jay is better, but overall much much faster.

Overall, I can't say exactly where we are but certainly not bottom of the league in defense and our offense has potential to say the least.

EDIT: I want to add, WHY THE **** IS HACKNEY BEHIND RAMSEY? If there's one thing I can guarantee after watching this game its that Hackney will start in the NFL at some point.

[Doggcow]

McCree is playing pretty well. Lots of headsy plays by him, he shoulda had that pick too.

[Doggcow]

Cutler looks fantastic, especially on screens. Looking the defenders off very well.

[Willynowei]

I actually think Harris played better than Clady as most of the time he was one on one without help. They did not show the illegal formation penalty but the offside call looked bogus to me. It seemed like Harris was quicker than other OL and it seemed like he was offsides.

Our pass rush is joke. Sage had completed his reads before dumping off. When I compare it to other teams i have seen like TB, Car, DaL, SD and even MIA we are bush league. If the DL plays like this the McCowns and Grossmans of the world will kill us like last year.

Per FO stats teams used 4th highest number of play action fakes against us and we were rated 30th defending them. I can see why now.

Having said that Cutler, scheff and Marshall can play for my team anyday.

I disagree, i just saw the tampa miami game earlier today, we are getting a better rush on average than both those teams, you have to factor in the fact that any time we blitzed in this game we generally got what we wanted, our front four moved the pocket back, something I haven't seen from the broncos very often in the past half decade.

On the other hand are we getting the rush Carolina enjoys? No, but they blitzed the Colts over and over in their exhibition game. Still, you can't expect us to go from one of the league's worst D-lines to competing with the leagues best.

I'd say we've improved a healthy amount from what I've seen tonight - We're not great, but we're really not bad; and thats very very encouraging considering the D-line we've fielded the last 3 or 4 years.

[TheChamp24]

Also, its hard to judge the pass rush since Houston had a lot of quick throws. Our coverage was awful, YUCK.

[Doggcow]

Also, its hard to judge the pass rush since Houston had a lot of quick throws. Our coverage was awful, YUCK.

Neither Champ nor Dre played. So find solice in that.

[bpc]

Okay so I finished the game so here are my final offense thoughts:

QB's: Cutler, great. Ramsey, like everybody has said, really struggled. Hackney deserves a chance to compete with the 2's.

HB's: Young is better than he showed, although he did well in the pass game. Andre Hall did well grinding the clock in the 2nd quarter. He'll be in the mix to take Torain's roll in the offense. I still think that Young and Broncos Back "B" whomever that is, finish with a 800/800 yd split. We'll get good production from the backfield this year and a lot our backs can catch out of the backfield. Aldridge LOOKS fast! We don't really substitute backs in on 3rd down but he is a good that needs to be on the team in special packages. He can turn the corner in a hurry!

WR's: I really like the play that I saw from Royal. He'll give us a great deep threat component to our offense that we haven't had since Ashley rolled out. We'll take a hit losing BMarsh for 3 games but I think Daryl Jackson can be adequate filling in that role.

TE's: If Jackson can stay healthy, we'll be pretty deep at this position.

OL: I thought Harris did a very good job. 1st start, 1st actually playing time, I'll give him a pass on some stupid holding penalties. All in all, I thought he did very well in the pass game and was even better in the run game. He looks very quick. Clady has shown that his size will give him a chance to compete immediately but he'll need to keep improving his technique and fundamentals. Playing against Houston was a great test for our young offensive line as I think they have a great DL and we more than held our own in the pass game.

Overall I think we are easily five quality starters deep with Clady, Hamilton, Nalen, Kuper and Harris. Weigman, Holland, Pears and Polumbus give this unit very solid depth.

[watermock]

I didnt see anything impressive but Cutler. Marshall was out there with size, and Clady...but we have a "small" team.

[Broncoman13]

I didnt see anything impressive but Cutler. Marshall was out there with size, and Clady...but we have a "small" team.

Daniel Graham is far from small! Marcus Thomas is a big boy too. You gotta admit that while some of these guys are "small" we now have some explosive, quick guys as well. Hall and Alridge while small are fast with Alridge being quick and fast! Eddie Royal can really scoot as well. I think we have a pretty good mix of big, small, and fast players.

Fix the redzone woes and we'll score 28 points per game! This team can really move the ball. Cutler will throw 30 TDs this season too. A few have mentioned it, but we are moving toward a pass happy offense. Maybe not pass happy, but a 55:45 ratio in favor of passing is what I'd expect. The one thing we don't have, that bruiser (Torain) that can come in the 4th quarter and grind out first downs to eat up the clock. Shanny is gonna have to keep his foot on the pedal this year, fortunately we have a young "coordinator" in Jeremy Bates that likely will go balls to the wall. You can see already that he likes the short passing game with the screens playing a big role. Think teams aren't paying attention to what the Pats and Saints have been successful with the last couple years?

[maher_tyler]

Passing game looks solid.
Pass defense looks horrible, but then, we don't have some guys playing. Still don't like the DL.
Our running game looked horrible.
Selvin Young, I do like what I saw from him though. Guy has some wheels and nice hands.

From what i hear D Rob didn't play either!!

[lex]

I thought the run defense was better than the first preseason game last year...i only watched the first 2 series though for both offense and defense. They looked ok.

[socalorado]

From what i hear D Rob didn't play either!!

He didnt play, but that is irrelevant.
He isnt going to play all the snaps in the regular season, so the other DTs are going to get alot of time. The need to preform better.
Peterson played well, but he gets overpowered too much at times. He will be a good rotational guy, and Marcus Thomas is freaking really good too. DEn needs 1 more solid guy at DT to really make a impact.
There were no sacks, and really no pressure up front all game. Rosenfels was VERY comfortable ALL game. Looked just like last year.

[Kaylore]

The video quality and announcers for the Texas crew were all much more professional than the CBS 4 crew. I don't know why, but CBS 4 seems to use cameras that are blurry and low quality.

[Broncoman13]

I hear they had poor angles though I didn't see that for myself. I assume that's what you were seeing on the NFL Network Khan?

[theAPAOps5]

I agree with Kahn the Houstons Production Team was much better.

[summerdenver]

any time we blitzed in this game we generally got what we wanted

Thats my point too, without blitz or even when the blitz is picked up, there is no pressure on QB. I am not asking for sacks just make the QB feel rushed and make quicker decisions.


On the other hand are we getting the rush Carolina enjoys? No, but they blitzed the Colts over and over in their exhibition game.

I only saw the 1s play and it looked to me that on the first 2 series the pressure was from front 4. Peppers took Ugoh to school and on atleast on sack, other DL also got penetration. The only play where some one on the D defeated a block in our game was Macus thomas stopping the Rb for a loss.

[theAPAOps5]

Again its hard to pressure the QB when the WR's are getting open on the simplest hitch or any route over the middle. Quick passes eliminate the rush and blitz. I want to see Champ and Bly along with Robertson in there before I panic.

[Garcia Bronco]

Defense -

Engelberger still starting is a joke.



So is your analysis.

[socalorado]

Again its hard to pressure the QB when the WR's are getting open on the simplest hitch or any route over the middle. Quick passes eliminate the rush and blitz. I want to see Champ and Bly along with Robertson in there before I panic.

Oh i agree, but i would like to see more pocket collapse from the DTs. Just more pressure all around. Yeah, having Champ and Dre would have been a real test for Rosenfels on the other hand!
I dont think he would have looked so comfortable back there dinking and dunking his way down the field.
We will see as the next month plays out.

[theAPAOps5]

Thomas had some good pressure but you are right as a whole it wasn't spectacular. The run defense was much improved from last years first pre-season game. But when you are improving from the realm of pathetic its a long road.

[summerdenver]

Thomas had some good pressure but you are right as a whole it wasn't spectacular. The run defense was much improved from last years first pre-season game. But when you are improving from the realm of pathetic its a long road.

Per FO we were 21st ranked over all def last year. As long as we can move up to be league avg (16th) I will be happy.

[Popps]

Overall I think we are easily five quality starters deep with Clady, Hamilton, Nalen, Kuper and Harris. Weigman, Holland, Pears and Polumbus give this unit very solid depth.

Good breakdowns.

I was fairly impressed with the o-line, minus the lack of run-blocking. Given, we probably weren't showing any strategy out there... but it sure looks like we'll be using the run to set up the pass. I have a feeling we'll be a pass-first team this year.

That said, Young looks very capable if he just had somewhere to run.

[Ziggy]

Quick Overall Analysis:

Offense- Jay looked good, and had some time on passing plays. Royal showed the ability to get open and catch the ball (just as he has all of training camp). BMarsh is still a stud. Clady held his own on passing downs even though they threw blitzes and stunts at him. Graham was babysitting him quite a bit though. Wegeman was a solid pickup in the offseason. The Oline as a whole was solid in the passing game, but didn't open too many holes for the RB's. Alridge can be explosive if he's put in the right situations. The darkhorse no-name to catch everyone's eye on offense and special teams is a kid named Clifford Russell.

Defense- Missing 3 of our 4 starting secondary (Champ, Dre, Hamza) showed, and we were horrible against the pass. The pass rush just wasn't there without bringing blitzers. The D was overpursuing all night long and getting burned on backside runs. Wesley Woodyard is a gamer. Jarvis Moss struggled against Houston's 3rd and 4th teamers late in the game. Our MLB situation is far from being solved. The D tightened up well in the red zone.

[Willynowei]

Thats my point too, without blitz or even when the blitz is picked up, there is no pressure on QB. I am not asking for sacks just make the QB feel rushed and make quicker decisions.



I only saw the 1s play and it looked to me that on the first 2 series the pressure was from front 4. Peppers took Ugoh to school and on atleast on sack, other DL also got penetration. The only play where some one on the D defeated a block in our game was Macus thomas stopping the Rb for a loss.

We're not flat out beating them on the rush but you can clearly see us get some push on the pocket whenever Thomas and Peterson were both in the middle.

First quarter the starting line did okay on third and long, they definitely got push from every side except on Englebergers angle. Second quarter they played a lot of Mallard who was really struggling to win his battles. I often saw him 3 to 7 yards away from the QB, making it much more difficult for the guys he lined up with including Crowder and Ekuban. Moss looked better in the third than fourth, oddly enough - i wonder if it had to do with conditioning. I liked what I saw from crowder a few times, he got doubled by the guard on atleast 3 occasions. That might just be due to his alignment but he was on his way to the passer on two of those snaps.

I think overall its hard to say where we are at as a d-line, but looking at each individual, i think a line with Thomas, Robertson, Dumervile and a fresh Moss will be effective at gettting to the quarterback. Atleast better than we've seen in a while.

[Atlas]

The Oline as a whole was solid in the passing game, but didn't open too many holes for the RB's.

Well Hall and Aldridge did get 63 yards on just 12 carries. That's better than 5 YPC.

[jsco70]

Finally got to watch the game last night. I doubt I'm covering new ground here, but these are the players who caught my eye in a good way:

Cutler - will have a great year presuming he's as tough as Elway was (I fear he's going to be under significant pressure).
Young - caught the ball well, great vision, fast but had no chance on running plays.
Royal - looks like a pro, no fear on the KR. Had one small mistake on pass route when he drifted into the defensive back as opposed to the zone soft spot.
Marshall - no ill effects from the injury, caught the ball well, typical YAC.
McCree - looked good against the run.
Thomas - broke through the line on a couple of plays.
Foxworth - could be better than Bly.
Woodyard - need to see more but very impressive, aggressive and sure tackler.
Barrett - around the ball, hit pretty hard, fast, bigger than I thought.

Caught my eye in a bad way:

Paymah - he still doesn't get it.
Harris - no comment needed.
Overall run blocking - don't recall the specific play, but during the 2nd quarter both Harris and Clady were abused. Harris was called for holding, Clady should have been. This was against 2nd team DE's. Weigman got blown up on a couple of plays by a bull rushing DT.
No pass rush - Houston QB's had all day to throw.
MLB - this position is in bad shape. Niko did nothing, Webster with his typical helmet flying tackle six yards downfield. Where is Al Wilson these days?

Cutler is going to have to carry the team on his back. Luckily, he looks to me like he's ready. Big test this week against the Cowboys who manhandled Denver last preseason. This will be a good measuring stick for the OL and DL.

[Tombstone RJ]

I watched most of the game last night and my overall impression is that the defense is still a work in progress with no real identity.

Miko did not impress me, neither did Webster. Larsen is listed as a FB on the Bronco's roster and he's wearing #46, which I think is kinda strange. I definitely think the LB corps is a weakness, so why take Larsen out of the equation?

On offense, I don't think Harris's performance was as bad as many here want to believe. Yah, he made a few mistakes, but let's see if he continues to learn from these mistakes. If he's not better by the regular season, then I'll be a little more worried. As for the run game, I dunno. It just seem very pedestrian. It doesn't have the "it" factor that is so important. Perhaps that "it" factor is explosiveness. Alridge looked nice, but he's definitely a situational RB. Perhaps a combo of Torain and Alridge can bring that "it" factor back to the Broncos. As for Young and Hall, they look so similar, flip a coin and pick one. I did not see Hillis anywhere.

Nothing great about STs either. If Prater has such a strong leg, why can't he get the kickoffs into the endzone? The return game, even with Royal, was uninspiring.

Overall, the Broncos performance was pretty mediocre, which has been my biggest complaint with Shanahan for a long, long time. The team is not bad, it's just not good or great either.

[2KBack]

Larsens number switch was so he could play both linebacker and Fullback without have to check in all the time, or something along those lines. He was in playing LB Saturday night.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

He didnt play, but that is irrelevant.
He isnt going to play all the snaps in the regular season, so the other DTs are going to get alot of time. The need to preform better.
Peterson played well, but he gets overpowered too much at times. He will be a good rotational guy, and Marcus Thomas is freaking really good too. DEn needs 1 more solid guy at DT to really make a impact.
There were no sacks, and really no pressure up front all game. Rosenfels was VERY comfortable ALL game. Looked just like last year.

You really have to relax. One preseason game, barely blitzing...i wouldnt write off the entire pass rush based on that. We might not have a great one, but give it a few more games to prove itself. Plus, as mentioned before, Schaub was working mostly off quick drops.

[rovolution]

Overall, the Broncos performance was pretty mediocre, which has been my biggest complaint with Shanahan for a long, long time. The team is not bad, it's just not good or great either.

a Great QB and a solid run defense can ail that problem. i believe we will have both in 2008

[chawknz]

Any video available of the touchdown Cutler ran in?

[Popps]

I watched most of the game last night and my overall impression is that the defense is still a work in progress with no real identity..

Identity is a word I've used a lot over the past couple seasons. We simply haven't had much.

I am convinced that our offense will be pass-happy this year, and we'll certainly be developing an identity as a throw-first team who can move the ball quickly.

Defensively, though... I have no idea. Some speculation here is that we'll be a blitzing team, but you really need a specific talent-set for that. We'll see.

[bpc]

So is your analysis.

So says the Hokie HOmer.

I have no problems with Engelberger the person or even Engelberger on the roster. But as a starter, he's a severely limited 2 down lineman and a very average one at that. The only attributes he has that stick out are long arms and a solid motor. He can stack the line fairly well but is far from dominant. I didn't see him make a ton of plays on a run defense that was horrible last year.

I know you blow everything VA Tech but he isn't that great. His production could easily be replaced. He had 15 starts and 41 tackles. 1 sack. Show me at any point in his career that he has dominated?

[OABB]

great thread.

my observations: the mane is out of control. When I finally got a chance to watch the game last night, there were points where I wondered if I was seeing the same game that everyone else did. oUr run defense looked very very good. Engelberger, peterson, thomas and even moss at times looked incredible in shedding blocks and making tackles. our backside contain is a mess, but that can be fixed with coaching. athletically we are fast on d as usual.

It looks like when Ian gold left, he took his allergy to tackling with him.

also-
I think our dline is playing primarily run defense first. WHen I watched the game, our de's looked like they were more concerned with a hb delay or screen than sacking the qb. Everyone is complaining about pressure, but even elvis was unable to generate it, and we all know what he's capable of.
and like many pointed out, houston was throwing quick hitches all night.

when you play a team that runs misdirection, playation and hb screens like houston, getting pressure on the edges plays right into their hands. There were many times I saw crowder get around the edge only to have the qb step up and dumb off a ball 5 yards.

I noticed an adjustment when mcree blitzed that one play and immediatly started peddling backwards and almost knocked down the ball as it lobbed over his head.

but, don't get me worng. our de's need to get better or we are in trouble, i just am not sure they were as bad as alot of people were suggesting. at times the pocket all but crumbled arounfd houston qb's and that is something I haven't seen in a long time.


the quick analysis:

Cutler is THE REAL DEAL. He has "IT". it can't be described, and I won't bother even trying, but we have a young superstar behind center. I have no doubt that he is going to be really really special. HOw lucky we are to be broncos fans. Imo, drafting him, and bmarsh alone have made up for many many lousy drafts.

when shanny gets it wrong, he gets it real wrong, but when he gets it right, look out nfl.

allridge did not impress me at all. he was fast, but doesn't look like a rb at all to me. he has great athletic ability to make up for a lot, but in this system he will fail. I know he can be dangerous on screens and short receptions, but there are many guys in the nfl that can be good that way. I am looking for a rb. Selvin seems to almost have it, but therre is something missing from his game and I don't know what it is.

all in all, judging from one preseason game, we are amuch much better team than last year. we have a ways to go, but WE will be better than 7-9 no doubt.

[Popps]

So says the Hokie HOmer.

I have no problems with Engelberger the person or even Engelberger on the roster. But as a starter, he's a severely limited 2 down lineman and a very average one at that. The only attributes he has that stick out are long arms and a solid motor. He can stack the line fairly well but is far from dominant. I didn't see him make a ton of plays on a run defense that was horrible last year.

I know you blow everything VA Tech but he isn't that great. His production could easily be replaced. He had 15 starts and 41 tackles. 1 sack. Show me at any point in his career that he has dominated?

Dude, he's racked up 3 sacks in three seasons! He's a beast.

[Popps]

Any video available of the touchdown Cutler ran in?

Nothing on Youtube yet. It was a pretty run. It's been said a lot, but he really is a great athlete. Showed nice speed and patience at the end to sneak into the endzone.

[rovolution]

Any video available of the touchdown Cutler ran in?

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d809e7096

[broncofan2438]

great thread.

my observations: the mane is out of control. When I finally got a chance to watch the game last night, there were points where I wondered if I was seeing the same game that everyone else did. oUr run defense looked very very good. Engelberger, peterson, thomas and even moss at times looked incredible in shedding blocks and making tackles. our backside contain is a mess, but that can be fixed with coaching. athletically we are fast on d as usual.

It looks like when Ian gold left, he took his allergy to tackling with him.

also-
I think our dline is playing primarily run defense first. WHen I watched the game, our de's looked like they were more concerned with a hb delay or screen than sacking the qb. Everyone is complaining about pressure, but even elvis was unable to generate it, and we all know what he's capable of.
and like many pointed out, houston was throwing quick hitches all night.

when you play a team that runs misdirection, playation and hb screens like houston, getting pressure on the edges plays right into their hands. There were many times I saw crowder get around the edge only to have the qb step up and dumb off a ball 5 yards.

I noticed an adjustment when mcree blitzed that one play and immediatly started peddling backwards and almost knocked down the ball as it lobbed over his head.

but, don't get me worng. our de's need to get better or we are in trouble, i just am not sure they were as bad as alot of people were suggesting. at times the pocket all but crumbled arounfd houston qb's and that is something I haven't seen in a long time.


the quick analysis:

Cutler is THE REAL DEAL. He has "IT". it can't be described, and I won't bother even trying, but we have a young superstar behind center. I have no doubt that he is going to be really really special. HOw lucky we are to be broncos fans. Imo, drafting him, and bmarsh alone have made up for many many lousy drafts.

when shanny gets it wrong, he gets it real wrong, but when he gets it right, look out nfl.

allridge did not impress me at all. he was fast, but doesn't look like a rb at all to me. he has great athletic ability to make up for a lot, but in this system he will fail. I know he can be dangerous on screens and short receptions, but there are many guys in the nfl that can be good that way. I am looking for a rb. Selvin seems to almost have it, but therre is something missing from his game and I don't know what it is.

all in all, judging from one preseason game, we are amuch much better team than last year. we have a ways to go, but WE will be better than 7-9 no doubt.


I like this! Honestly I have to agree with you. Unfortunately I was unable to watch the game and had to listen to it on the radio(much different). So hearing some of the ups and downs from the game can get confusing. Although what I read here is good.

[broncofan2438]

I just watched Cutlers run......I love it!

[Greybeard]

great thread.

my observations: the mane is out of control. When I finally got a chance to watch the game last night, there were points where I wondered if I was seeing the same game that everyone else did. oUr run defense looked very very good. Engelberger, peterson, thomas and even moss at times looked incredible in shedding blocks and making tackles. our backside contain is a mess, but that can be fixed with coaching. athletically we are fast on d as usual.

It looks like when Ian gold left, he took his allergy to tackling with him.

also-
I think our dline is playing primarily run defense first. WHen I watched the game, our de's looked like they were more concerned with a hb delay or screen than sacking the qb. Everyone is complaining about pressure, but even elvis was unable to generate it, and we all know what he's capable of.
and like many pointed out, houston was throwing quick hitches all night.

when you play a team that runs misdirection, playation and hb screens like houston, getting pressure on the edges plays right into their hands. There were many times I saw crowder get around the edge only to have the qb step up and dumb off a ball 5 yards.

I noticed an adjustment when mcree blitzed that one play and immediatly started peddling backwards and almost knocked down the ball as it lobbed over his head.

but, don't get me worng. our de's need to get better or we are in trouble, i just am not sure they were as bad as alot of people were suggesting. at times the pocket all but crumbled arounfd houston qb's and that is something I haven't seen in a long time.


the quick analysis:

Cutler is THE REAL DEAL. He has "IT". it can't be described, and I won't bother even trying, but we have a young superstar behind center. I have no doubt that he is going to be really really special. HOw lucky we are to be broncos fans. Imo, drafting him, and bmarsh alone have made up for many many lousy drafts.

when shanny gets it wrong, he gets it real wrong, but when he gets it right, look out nfl.

allridge did not impress me at all. he was fast, but doesn't look like a rb at all to me. he has great athletic ability to make up for a lot, but in this system he will fail. I know he can be dangerous on screens and short receptions, but there are many guys in the nfl that can be good that way. I am looking for a rb. Selvin seems to almost have it, but therre is something missing from his game and I don't know what it is.

all in all, judging from one preseason game, we are amuch much better team than last year. we have a ways to go, but WE will be better than 7-9 no doubt.

You were spot on in several of your points. I will mildly take issue with your
comment on Selvin, however. What he was missing in the game was the
blocking for him. But even there, what was there to see? Four carries, and
they didn't even allow him to get started. I think we need to give a RB, who
achieved a 5.2 YPC average and 729 yards in limited action last year, a
better chance than that, don't we?

-----

[broncocalijohn]

After seeing Ramsey throw that pick for that second time I realize how good Broncos must think Cutler is. Man that dude stinks. I can't believe he's even on our team. Broncos have a few of those on this roster, just outright how is this guy making tons of money playing football.

We had a chance to get Leftwich until Steelers snagged him. Culpepper has got to be a better back than what we have now. On first quarter, we need to realize that Clady's first game is against a stud in Williams. I thought he held his own on many plays. Harris had some good blocks but horrible decisions ie. lining up too far off the line deleting Young's great screen run.

[OABB]

You were spot on in several of your points. I will mildly take issue with your
comment on Selvin, however. What he was missing in the game was the
blocking for him. But even there, what was there to see? Four carries, and
they didn't even allow him to get started. I think we need to give a RB, who
achieved a 5.2 YPC average and 729 yards in limited action last year, a
better chance than that, don't we?

-----

well, in short, yes. I didn't mean to come across as down on Selvin. Actually I have wanted him to be our guy since he knocked that ball out of bounds last year. He is heady, and great in pass protection, and for an udfa, he is light years ahead of most 1st rounders in that regard.

I also think his vision is wildly underrated. He has the best vision of any rb we have had here in years imo(yes even mike bell...). he Is quick and shifty, and his offseason conditioning shows that he has the work ethic to be great. I am a fan of this guy if you can't tell.

however, there is something missing. I hate to be so unclear about it, but I honestly have no way of expressing it. it's just....there.

I think it is his football speed. He doesn't seem to have the patience to set up blocks maybe. I know- I know what you are thinking, I am not basing this of the houston game, this is an opinion based on his full career.

but he is smart, fast, shifty, professional and great in every area that we need in this system(including catching the ball) but I am not sure if he is the real deal yet.

I stand by what I said about his game speed in setting up blocks, maybe that's what it is....who knows. but to gain 15 pounds of muscle in direct response to your coach saying you are just a change of pace guy tells me that he will figure it out eventually.

[Beantown Bronco]

Nothing great about STs either. If Prater has such a strong leg, why can't he get the kickoffs into the endzone?

Last season, Rob Bironas led the league in kickoff average with a 67.6 yard average. Prater averaged 68.2 yards in his five kickoffs the other night and seemed to get good hang time on those kicks judging by the fact that the coverage teams were making first contact well before the 20 yd line. He will most likely lead the league if he keeps it up.....especially considering the game was not played at mile high. His distance should obviously be even better there.

People just don't realize how truly rare touchbacks have become outside of Denver since the kickoffs were moved back to the 30.

[Greybeard]

well, in short, yes. I didn't mean to come across as down on Selvin. Actually I have wanted him to be our guy since he knocked that ball out of bounds last year. He is heady, and great in pass protection, and for an udfa, he is light years ahead of most 1st rounders in that regard.

I also think his vision is wildly underrated. He has the best vision of any rb we have had here in years imo(yes even mike bell...). he Is quick and shifty, and his offseason conditioning shows that he has the work ethic to be great. I am a fan of this guy if you can't tell.

however, there is something missing. I hate to be so unclear about it, but I honestly have no way of expressing it. it's just....there.

I think it is his football speed. He doesn't seem to have the patience to set up blocks maybe. I know- I know what you are thinking, I am not basing this of the houston game, this is an opinion based on his full career.

but he is smart, fast, shifty, professional and great in every area that we need in this system(including catching the ball) but I am not sure if he is the real deal yet.

I stand by what I said about his game speed in setting up blocks, maybe that's what it is....who knows. but to gain 15 pounds of muscle in direct response to your coach saying you are just a change of pace guy tells me that he will figure it out eventually.

Very good points. Probably what is missing is experience? The kid is still
effectively a rookie: He didn't play all 16 games last year. Maybe he will
develop that "it" as he goes along. Let's hope so. He certainly has everything
else.

-----

[hambone13]

Last season, Rob Bironas led the league in kickoff average with a 67.6 yard average. Prater averaged 68.2 yards in his five kickoffs the other night and seemed to get good hang time on those kicks judging by the fact that the coverage teams were making first contact well before the 20 yd line. He will most likely lead the league if he keeps it up.....especially considering the game was not played at mile high. His distance should obviously be even better there.

People just don't realize how truly rare touchbacks have become outside of Denver since the kickoffs were moved back to the 30.

In addition, there aren't a lot of places more humid than Houston in early August, YUCK! You could slice out a loaf of that air with the pointy side of the pigskin....

[PRBronco]

We had a chance to get Leftwich until Steelers snagged him. Culpepper has got to be a better back than what we have now. On first quarter, we need to realize that Clady's first game is against a stud in Williams. I thought he held his own on many plays. Harris had some good blocks but horrible decisions ie. lining up too far off the line deleting Young's great screen run.

Haha ewww, Culpepper. I would actually be cheering for him not to score, so I wouldn't have to see him do that stupid ass arm roll celebration.

[broncosteven]

My takeaway from this thread is that we have an Average front 4, Below average LB's and can't tell much yet about our Backfield as Champ and Bly did not start though Safety play was average at best.

The other thing I am taking away from this thread is that we have no depth at all in the front 7.

Oh, and someone pissed in BB's cornflakes and kicked his dog this am.

Thanks for the info Med!

[broncocalijohn]

I didnt see anything impressive but Cutler. Marshall was out there with size, and Clady...but we have a "small" team.

Maybe you shouldnt watch old Vikings highlights with the current preseason game on mock. He was 7 for 9 at one point at least) with one non call tripping in the endzone and a possible wrong route run by Royal. The bullet he threw (i believe) to Graham reminded me of the pass Sharpe caught to extend the AFC Championship game vs the Steelers.

[cmhargrove]

OK I just watched most of the first half. I think our O-line will be good this year. Clady will be very good, maybe even great if he gets stronger in the upper body. But, we got him to protect Cutler first - that's exactly what he did.

Ryan Harris is a fighter. He may not be perfect, but I already think he will be an upgrade over Pears. He fought like hell and I think he will actually be pretty good. He only got beat deep, after the D-end ran too deep and was out of the play.

Wiegman fought like a true vet. He held as much as he could. I would like to see a little more power at Center. Maybe Lichtenstiger will be ready by next year.

Kuper did his job. Not spectacular, but no breakdowns. Good fighter also.

I actually thought Hamilton got pushed around the most at the line. However, he is a great blocker in open space. But, he needs just as much adjustment time as the rest of the line since he hasn't played in a year.

I would actually like to see a line that had Clady, Kuper, Nalen, Holland, and Harris. With Lichtenstiger taking over next year.

If Royal and Cutler get on the same page this year will be fun as hell. We have all the talent we need at HB. Especially if Hillis can get healthy. He can be our short yardage guy.


Someone tell me why they think Harris is bad (other than several stupid penalties)? Other than that, he did a good job of blocking and was really fighting. The penalties can be fixed, but he looks like he has what it takes.

Also, as the first half went on, Clady looked better and better. He seems to learn quickly and sure doesn't quit. I think he will be a great LT for us.

[Popps]

A few people have taken up for Harris' play. Seems he did fine outside of a few mental errors. One was just lining up a little deep.

[broncocalijohn]

A few people have taken up for Harris' play. Seems he did fine outside of a few mental errors. One was just lining up a little deep.

since so many were bad mouthing him, I watched the game for the first time on NFL network. Yes, he made some bonehead plays but i have commented that he made some good blocks too. Not sure what happened after the beg. of the 2nd quarter as the wife came home and I tried to get some. Went upstairs and never came back down. But like baseball, I struck out.
I did get a good night's sleep though!

[Popps]

Lol

[bpc]

I thought Harris scrapped it up. He looks bulked up, I thought his feet looked quicker than Clady on most plays (probably because he knows the play book and is just playing ball) and he was very good in the run game. He had some plays where he held but I think that is more a credit to Mario Williams, not a detriment to Harris' play.

I've been vastly critical of him but if he can eliminate the penalties he can be a good player for us. Think about it, this is basically his first game action and it came against Mario Williams and he more than held his own outside of the penalties.

If Harris can stay healthy and Clady can exceed expectations, Cutler could be in for a big throwing year.

[Greybeard]

I thought Harris scrapped it up. He looks bulked up, I thought his feet looked quicker than Clady on most plays (probably because he knows the play book and is just playing ball) and he was very good in the run game. He had some plays where he held but I think that is more a credit to Mario Williams, not a detriment to Harris' play.

I've been vastly critical of him but if he can eliminate the penalties he can be a good player for us. Think about it, this is basically his first game action and it came against Mario Williams and he more than held his own outside of the penalties.

If Harris can stay healthy and Clady can exceed expectations, Cutler could be in for a big throwing year.

Of course, they have a long way to go and a lot to prove, but if they can
keep improving on that, Clady and Harris may well become the bookends to
a legendary line. Wouldn't that be something?

-----

[DivineLegion]

I thought Harris scrapped it up. He looks bulked up, I thought his feet looked quicker than Clady on most plays (probably because he knows the play book and is just playing ball) and he was very good in the run game. He had some plays where he held but I think that is more a credit to Mario Williams, not a detriment to Harris' play.

I've been vastly critical of him but if he can eliminate the penalties he can be a good player for us. Think about it, this is basically his first game action and it came against Mario Williams and he more than held his own outside of the penalties.

If Harris can stay healthy and Clady can exceed expectations, Cutler could be in for a big throwing year.

I agree completely, Harris despite his penalties totally out performed Ryan Clady. Clady was just embarrassed against Mario Williams on the first offensive series. Granted Clady did improve as the game went on you can tell he is going to have some growing pains. There was only one play were I saw Harris realy get pushed back off the LOS and that was actually the play were he got flagged for illigal formation.

I thought the interior of the line look fantastic, Weiggman looks to be more than servicable as our backup Center in case Nails goes down. Hamiliton seemed to match his descriptions from the Camp reports, flashing dominance but sometimes on passing downs strapping on his roller skates (granted he was going one on one with Okoye). Kris Kuper was very solid and hardly made my game notes because he just went out there and did his job.

My biggest concern going into the season is both of our lines, ill give the edge to our Oline after one exhibition game.

[DivineLegion]

I think Kenny Peterson was the best player overall for the first team D he was constantly getting pressure up the middle and creating plays. Marcus Thomas seemed to command double teams on alot of passing downs but Peterson did a great job with the opportunity he was given. Im looking forward to our Interior Defsenive unit putting things together this season, I think with Dewane Robertson in there they will realy cause some problems.

My biggest concern, and I know i'm not alone in this sentiment is our Defensive ends. Granted Jarvis Moss did show some flash's and made a great play in the running game, he wasn't nearly as productive as the camp reports were sighting. I think Crowder is right where we need him to be, solid vs the Run with a high motor, and potential to make plays on passing downs. Elvis almost had a sack on our second defensive series and if it wasn't for the fact that we had our 3rd and 4th corners on the field he definitely would have, all he needed was a half second more.

I'm really excited to see the strides our defense is going to make this season, I think they have so much ceiling they are going to deceive a lot of casual observers early on and really blossom towards the middle of the season. Slowiks 3-2-3-3 nickel package is really interesting also it generated a sack on a corner blitz by Cristian Morton (who despite this one play sucked and was a huge liability), and a Huge hit across the middle. This Defensive unit has a lot of speed and tenacity which I think is going to really excite Slowiks now obvious creative nature...should be a fun season to watch.

[fdf]

allridge did not impress me at all. he was fast, but doesn't look like a rb at all to me. he has great athletic ability to make up for a lot, but in this system he will fail. I know he can be dangerous on screens and short receptions, but there are many guys in the nfl that can be good that way.

I agree with this. His ability is only useful if there is also a credible threat to run between the tackles. Otherwise, teams will quickly figure out he is useless between the tackles and if he's the sole running back, he won't get outside very often.

Maybe he works in a two back formation if the fullback is a credible threat between the tackles and we actually use the fullback that way.

[lex]

As long as we can stop the run, we have something to work with. On paper, we should have the CBs to allow us to blitz for pressure if necessary. But stopping the run is paramount and I remember the first PS game vs SF last year and we were getting gashed far more easily than this year. And actually, we put Houston in a lot of 3rd down situations early on in the game and considering we were playing different guys, Im not so upset about a little confusion in the pass in the first preseason game. We were way too susceptible to the bootlegs/misdirections though. I feel better this year after game 1 than I did last year. Also, you can really see Thomas' improved strength and fitness. He is more stout and gives a much more consistent effort.

[tnedator]

I agree with this. His ability is only useful if there is also a credible threat to run between the tackles. Otherwise, teams will quickly figure out he is useless between the tackles and if he's the sole running back, he won't get outside very often.

Maybe he works in a two back formation if the fullback is a credible threat between the tackles and we actually use the fullback that way.

The last few years, the Broncos line has shown an increased inability to open up lanes between the tackles. A power back can gain some yards just by bulling through, but in the end it really comes down to the line opening up holes and a back hitting them.