Is Mike Shanahan the right coach for the Denver Broncos?

[dragondawg]

It has been 10 years since the John Elway-Mike Shanahan led Broncos won the Super Bowl and the heat is starting to get a lot hotter on the man they call “The Mastermind”. How hot is the heat? Well let’s just say it is a lot hotter than it was a few years ago.

After two very disappointing seasons, especially last year, Shanahan knows he has to put a much better product onto the field or else fans and media are going to be clamoring for his job. The real issue is whether Pat Bowlen is really going to hold Shanahan accountable for the Bronco woes the past few seasons.

In the 10 years since the Broncos won the Super Bowl they have won one playoff game. That came three years ago against the New England Patriots. Before that they were blown out badly by the Baltimore Ravens and twice by the Colts. Since the win against the Patriots they have been fairly awful.

The Jake Plummer experiment, like so many others Shanahan has tried, did not work out. Last year they seemed to be a team that certainly had a good shot at the playoffs but a horrible defense coupled with an incredible amount of injuries ruined their season. You cannot blame the injuries on Mike Shanahan but the defensive woes are partially his fault.

He had a popular, if not really good, defensive coordinator in Larry Coyer two years ago and fired him. He brought in Jim Bates to change things up and that is certainly what he got, but they were all changes for the bad. It was fairly obvious from the beginning last year that the Bates system was not working well for the Broncos. The experiment with D.J. Williams at middle linebacker was a disaster.

Trying to get more beef up front took away from the natural aggressiveness of so many of the Bronco defenders, including Champ Bailey. Shanahan had to know early on that this defensive experiment was doomed to fail; heck, it was obvious to casual Bronco fans.

Shanahan deserves a lot of the blame for the defensive problems. He hired Jim Bates. He signed the new defensive players. The buck stops with Shanahan.

As for the offense. Well it is hard to blame Shanahan for the offensive problems because of the injuries, and the fact that it was Jay Cutler’s first full season as a starter. But one thing that became apparent is that “The Mastermind” lost his nerve during much of the season when it came to play calling. The Broncos were so conservative at times it was EASY for Bronco fans to know whether the play was going to be a run or pass, and to what side or part of the field the play was designed to go to!

So all of this leads to this question: Has the Shanahan message worn thin? Do the players still respond to him? Does Shanahan have too much power? Why the heck does Pat Bowlen seem to think that the only guy that can coach the Broncos is Mike Shanahan. We cannot answer the Bowlen situation but we have some good ideas on the other three questions.

After a coach has been in one place for a long time the message does get old. The message and tactics don’t have the same effect. But that might not be an issue here because most of the Broncos are young and have not heard the same message for eight to 10 years.

Do the players respond to Shanahan? That is really hard to say. Some do…some probably don’t. Do enough of the players respond to his coaching? Probably. And if the Broncos can get off to a good start then even more players will respond. Winning seems to make a lot of issues go away.

Does Shanahan have too much power? YES. YES. YES. He has way to much power. With Mike Shanahan it seems it is always someone else’s fault. The defensive coordinator. The players. The general manager. The offensive coordinator. Everyone gets demoted or gets pushed out the door, but the only guy that remains is Shanahan himself.

The Broncos, as of now, are flying under the radar. They do have a chance to be a good solid team that could make the playoffs if they stay healthy, and some of their young players step up and do a good job. No one is saying the Broncos should challenge the Colts, Patriots, or Chargers. Heck, it would be nice if the Broncos could actually score a touchdown against the Chargers!

But if this team goes 7-9, or worse again, doesn’t Shanahan have to go? If they go 8-8 does he have to go? If the Broncos cannot even win eight games with the talent they have…Shanahan needs to go. He has had plenty of time to get this team straightened out. He wants to cook the meals and he has been afforded the opportunity to buy all the groceries…he has NO MORE EXCUSES!

http://denver-bronco-news.com/is-mike-shanahan-the-right-coach-for-the-denver-broncos

[Los Broncos]

He needs at least two more seasons to turn it around.

After that, then maybe we talk about a new coach.

[Sassy]

get ready for wolf...

[Florida_Bronco]

The Jake Plummer experiment, like so many others Shanahan has tried, did not work out. Not true.

The experiment with D.J. Williams at middle linebacker was a disaster. Totally not true.

[Goobzilla]

get ready for wolf...

I thought wolf wrote it, or the fireshanahan.com guy. But then again I've never seen them in the same place at once....

[DukeWoody]

Responding stricktly to the title ?...YES, Shanahan should absolutely remain the coach of the DB, with out a doubt..

[Dagmar]

Not true.

Totally not true.

Apparently if you don't win the whole thing it didn't work. That Marino experiment in Miami... what a bust!

[Dagmar]

Responding stricktly to the title ?...YES, Shanahan should absolutely remain the coach of the DB, with out a doubt..

http://forum.football365.com/images/smiley_icons/5.gif

[watermock]

http://hoboken411.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/debbie-downer-lottery.jpg

[tsiguy96]

the second shanahan is gone, there is a dozen times who will IMMEDIATELY fire their coach to get him. belie dat.

[broncofan2438]

Lame........next stupid article

[BroncoMan4ever]

for right now, i say give him 2 more years. i trust and still have faith in Shannahan. but if this team isn't improved over the past 2 seasons, new blood should be brought in.
i say give him this year, to show what he has built with the draft, hopefully a young team that shows that it is capable of becoming elite, and then next season a young team that is ready to compete.

[bombquixote]

So all of this leads to this question: Has the Shanahan message worn thin? Do the players still respond to him? Does Shanahan have too much power? Why the heck does Pat Bowlen seem to think that the only guy that can coach the Broncos is Mike Shanahan. We cannot answer the Bowlen situation but we have some good ideas on the other three questions.

After a coach has been in one place for a long time the message does get old. The message and tactics don’t have the same effect. But that might not be an issue here because most of the Broncos are young and have not heard the same message for eight to 10 years.

Do the players respond to Shanahan? That is really hard to say. Some do…some probably don’t. Do enough of the players respond to his coaching? Probably. And if the Broncos can get off to a good start then even more players will respond. Winning seems to make a lot of issues go away.

Does Shanahan have too much power? YES. YES. YES. He has way to much power. With Mike Shanahan it seems it is always someone else’s fault. The defensive coordinator. The players. The general manager. The offensive coordinator. Everyone gets demoted or gets pushed out the door, but the only guy that remains is Shanahan himself.

The Broncos, as of now, are flying under the radar. They do have a chance to be a good solid team that could make the playoffs if they stay healthy, and some of their young players step up and do a good job. No one is saying the Broncos should challenge the Colts, Patriots, or Chargers. Heck, it would be nice if the Broncos could actually score a touchdown against the Chargers!

But if this team goes 7-9, or worse again, doesn’t Shanahan have to go? If they go 8-8 does he have to go? If the Broncos cannot even win eight games with the talent they have…Shanahan needs to go. He has had plenty of time to get this team straightened out. He wants to cook the meals and he has been afforded the opportunity to buy all the groceries…he has NO MORE EXCUSES!

http://denver-bronco-news.com/is-mike-shanahan-the-right-coach-for-the-denver-broncos

In no particular order:

Coaches don't have messages, they have authority, and it doesn't wear thin because turnover is too high in the NFL. Also, players don't respond to coaches, they respond to competition, job insecurity--the fact that if they don't perform, they get replaced.

How do you know how much power Shanahan has? Have you sat down in coachs' meetings? In his meetings w/Bowlen? The Bronco's organization is large and far too intricate for anyone, even a detail freak like Shanahan, to micromanage every little aspect, as local media would have us believe. Shanahan has the power to set the tone, set high standards. He has the power to delegate. And that's basically it. He simply brings in people he feels will meet the standards he has set for his team. Jim Bates for example. Bad decision. Bate's scheme sucked. Was that Shanahan's fault? Absolutely, because he brought Bates in. Shanahan took responsibility for this mistake and moved towards a defensive solution by firing Bates. It's the same for coaches the odd GM as it is for the players: if you don't perform up to standards, you're gone.

No one is saying we should challenge the Colts, Patriots and Chargers? Really? Wrong. Ten grand says Shanahan expects precisely that, and that he voices it in every practice, every coaches meeting, every personel choice. If he didn't, then I'd agree with you, he'd be on thin ice.

As for what record the Broncos must achieve in order for Shanny to regain his credibility, I don't know, my friend. Tell me this: if after some key injuries the Broncos fall under .500 again this season, with whom would your replace Shanahan?

[watermock]

The Torian injury hurts, is that Sanny's fault, or that Henry was a head case, or Walker, or players get shot and die, this tean has seen its share the past 10 years.

Bad drafting? Absolutly, I've cussed about that for years...that's finally improved...also, our FA's have sucked also, that needs improvement, and I think it's comming.

As far as coaching, he's superior, and want's to delegate, he just cant find many that live up to his standards.

[cutthemdown]

Shannahan is so important to Denver that until it's totally obvious he is the problem you don't fire him. I think Shanny deserves enough time to prove whether or not he can make Cutler an elite qb. IMO that takes 4 yrs. So IMO Shanny should have 2 more seasons to prove that.

I think he gets it done and by yr 4 Broncos are a Superbowl contender. We may struggle a little this yr but I think the core is almost in place.

[Atlas]

Mike Shanahan would be the right coach for about 30 teams in the NFL.

[TheReverend]

Every point in the article is exaggerrated 10 fold.

[loborugger]

No Wolf, no Telluride, no Trolls. Something is amiss in this here thread.

[colonelbeef]

What a horribly written, ill conceived 'article'. Slanted, biased, on most counts completely inaccurate. I would suggest that we are all a little dumber for having read this tripe.

[tsiguy96]

Mike Shanahan would be the right coach for about 30 teams in the NFL.

tru dat.

[cmhargrove]

!

[BMarsh615]

The only person I would want other than Shanahan would be Kubiak.

[colonelbeef]

The only person I would want other than Shanahan would be Kubiak.

And then perhaps Del Rio, he seems to do more with less. would have been Belichick, but now that he is a documented cheater, I would be unable to root for him

[BroncoBuff]

Not true.

Totally not true.
Yeah, that is a horrible "article."

Angry fans shouldn't try to be objective, as with www.FireShanahan.com, their "fan" status will always show through.

[PaintballCLE]

Ok i think i am the only one who thought plummer did good here.......especially considering our other options at that time. If Cutler led the team to a 13-3 record, beat the patriots in the playoffs, and got us to the afc championship game everyone would be jumping on the bandwagon talking about how he is the next john elway. Plummer does it, and people still think he was terrible. If you throw out his AZ years, and just focus on the broncos numbers, he was one of the top qb's those years, even though it didnt seem it at times.

[ohiobronco2]

Shanahan is one of the best coaches out there. I've questioned his decision making on draft day and free agency, but I've never questioned him as a coach. I'll give him a couple more years to see if things pan out, if not, I ask him to step down as "GM".

[db56]

the second shanahan is gone, there is a dozen times who will IMMEDIATELY fire their coach to get him. belie dat.

right on, Shanahan is most likely a hall of fame coach, u cant let that guy go because of a few less then average seasons with less than average talent in a 10 years span that includes 2 Super Bowl wins.

[bronco_diesel]

It has been 10 years since the John Elway-Mike Shanahan led Broncos won the Super Bowl and the heat is starting to get a lot hotter on the man they call “The Mastermind”. How hot is the heat? Well let’s just say it is a lot hotter than it was a few years ago.

After two very disappointing seasons, especially last year, Shanahan knows he has to put a much better product onto the field or else fans and media are going to be clamoring for his job. The real issue is whether Pat Bowlen is really going to hold Shanahan accountable for the Bronco woes the past few seasons.

In the 10 years since the Broncos won the Super Bowl they have won one playoff game. That came three years ago against the New England Patriots. Before that they were blown out badly by the Baltimore Ravens and twice by the Colts. Since the win against the Patriots they have been fairly awful.

The Jake Plummer experiment, like so many others Shanahan has tried, did not work out. Last year they seemed to be a team that certainly had a good shot at the playoffs but a horrible defense coupled with an incredible amount of injuries ruined their season. You cannot blame the injuries on Mike Shanahan but the defensive woes are partially his fault.

He had a popular, if not really good, defensive coordinator in Larry Coyer two years ago and fired him. He brought in Jim Bates to change things up and that is certainly what he got, but they were all changes for the bad. It was fairly obvious from the beginning last year that the Bates system was not working well for the Broncos. The experiment with D.J. Williams at middle linebacker was a disaster.

Trying to get more beef up front took away from the natural aggressiveness of so many of the Bronco defenders, including Champ Bailey. Shanahan had to know early on that this defensive experiment was doomed to fail; heck, it was obvious to casual Bronco fans.

Shanahan deserves a lot of the blame for the defensive problems. He hired Jim Bates. He signed the new defensive players. The buck stops with Shanahan.

As for the offense. Well it is hard to blame Shanahan for the offensive problems because of the injuries, and the fact that it was Jay Cutler’s first full season as a starter. But one thing that became apparent is that “The Mastermind” lost his nerve during much of the season when it came to play calling. The Broncos were so conservative at times it was EASY for Bronco fans to know whether the play was going to be a run or pass, and to what side or part of the field the play was designed to go to!

So all of this leads to this question: Has the Shanahan message worn thin? Do the players still respond to him? Does Shanahan have too much power? Why the heck does Pat Bowlen seem to think that the only guy that can coach the Broncos is Mike Shanahan. We cannot answer the Bowlen situation but we have some good ideas on the other three questions.

After a coach has been in one place for a long time the message does get old. The message and tactics don’t have the same effect. But that might not be an issue here because most of the Broncos are young and have not heard the same message for eight to 10 years.

Do the players respond to Shanahan? That is really hard to say. Some do…some probably don’t. Do enough of the players respond to his coaching? Probably. And if the Broncos can get off to a good start then even more players will respond. Winning seems to make a lot of issues go away.

Does Shanahan have too much power? YES. YES. YES. He has way to much power. With Mike Shanahan it seems it is always someone else’s fault. The defensive coordinator. The players. The general manager. The offensive coordinator. Everyone gets demoted or gets pushed out the door, but the only guy that remains is Shanahan himself.

The Broncos, as of now, are flying under the radar. They do have a chance to be a good solid team that could make the playoffs if they stay healthy, and some of their young players step up and do a good job. No one is saying the Broncos should challenge the Colts, Patriots, or Chargers. Heck, it would be nice if the Broncos could actually score a touchdown against the Chargers!

But if this team goes 7-9, or worse again, doesn’t Shanahan have to go? If they go 8-8 does he have to go? If the Broncos cannot even win eight games with the talent they have…Shanahan needs to go. He has had plenty of time to get this team straightened out. He wants to cook the meals and he has been afforded the opportunity to buy all the groceries…he has NO MORE EXCUSES!

http://denver-bronco-news.com/is-mike-shanahan-the-right-coach-for-the-denver-broncos

man, you posted the same kind of stuff a while back....

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=68134

[theAPAOps5]

oh God Wolf is blogging now. Who gave him this bright idea!

[Eli_Cash]

If not Shanahan then who?

Find someone better and I'm all for it.

Thats where you lose me, who's the better option as head coach?

Firing someone with no plan to replace them is kinda dumb...

[theAPAOps5]

When Shanahan quits I am all for Kubiak coming in and coaching. Or if Jeremy Bates pans out as the genius he is supposedly becoming then maybe him.

[Peoples Champ]

yes

[Peoples Champ]

Plus, as bad as our years were, they werent that bad compared to other teams.

Look at the colts in the mid to late 90's, worst in the NFL. Some teams only get 1-4 wins a year. Thats a bad year. If our worst years as a Bronco fan our 7-9, I will take that.

The Rams won 2 or 3 games last year, and they have the same idiot coaching this year.

[obediah]

just curious to those that say he has 2 more years to turn it around..
So your telling me it takes 12 years, is that a standard? or just doing what shanahoohoo does, blames everyone else for the Broncos current state waiting for him to stumble on another "star" running back, maybe this time he and the medical staff wont overlook fractures in feet...

wake me up when shanahoohoo is gone..

Obediah

[DenverBrit]

just curious to those that say he has 2 more years to turn it around..
So your telling me it takes 12 years, is that a standard? or just doing what shanahoohoo does, blames everyone else for the Broncos current state waiting for him to stumble on another "star" running back, maybe this time he and the medical staff wont overlook fractures in feet...

wake me up when shanahoohoo is gone..

Obediah

Sleep well, Rip Van Winkle. :clown:

[jsco70]

Ok i think i am the only one who thought plummer did good here.......especially considering our other options at that time. If Cutler led the team to a 13-3 record, beat the patriots in the playoffs, and got us to the afc championship game everyone would be jumping on the bandwagon talking about how he is the next john elway. Plummer does it, and people still think he was terrible. If you throw out his AZ years, and just focus on the broncos numbers, he was one of the top qb's those years, even though it didnt seem it at times.


I agree Plummer did a good job. He did all he was capable of doing. It wasn't like he was an unknown quality. He could make plays with his legs, inspire his teamates and lead. However, he was often times careless and wasn't necessarily the most motivated player. Shanahan knew what he was getting, which is why I wasn't surpised in the least when he picked up Culter.

As for this article, it's hogwash. Shanahan is one of the top coaches in the league. There isn't anyone to replace him. Yes, he would probably be wise to reduce some of his repsonsibilities in player personnel. In fact, it appears with Goodman he may be doing just that. The past few drafts look very promising.

The grass is always greener and I would love to hear who the anti-Shanahan crowd would like to replace him. And don't say Kubiak. He isn't going anywhere. So, I ask those who agree with this article to please list who they would like to take over. Any takers?

[ColoradoDarin]

I stopped reading here:

The experiment with D.J. Williams at middle linebacker was a disaster.

If you write something that stupid, I'm not going to waste my time reading the rest of it.

[COWBELL]

You want to fire a HOF coach. Come on get real.

[Borks147]

He's going to stay here until his son takes over. bookmark this post...and yay nepotism!

[TheReverend]

When Shanahan quits I am all for Kubiak coming in and coaching. Or if Jeremy Bates pans out as the genius he is supposedly becoming then maybe him.

When he quits, I want Shanahan Jr (Kyle) taking the reigns. Make the family business winning rings in Denver.

[TheReverend]

He's going to stay here until his son takes over. bookmark this post...and yay nepotism!

Nice, beat me to it. Only mine has more enthusiasm towards the concept.

[Borks147]

When he quits, I want Shanahan Jr (Kyle) taking the reigns. Make the family business winning rings in Denver.

I like your thinking!

[Borks147]

you know...the one thing that bothers me about Shanahan is that for some reason he really hasn't built up a strong "coaching tree" like the really great ones have. Kubiak is basically the first one the branch off. Then again, perhaps its a testament to his genius that others can't easily replicate it. too much shanny love?

[Smiling Assassin27]

Mike Shanahan would be the right coach for about 30 teams in the NFL.

Dude, you really need to get rid of that bouncing beauty if you want anyone to actually READ your stuff. :afro:

[TheReverend]

you know...the one thing that bothers me about Shanahan is that for some reason he really hasn't built up a strong "coaching tree" like the really great ones have. Kubiak is basically the first one the branch off. Then again, perhaps its a testament to his genius that others can't easily replicate it. too much shanny love?

Those "trees" are extremely overrated.

How do you define what tree a certain branch is in? Do you count all the guys that worked under Mike at SF or are they Bill Walsh? Is Romeo Crennel a Belicek branch or a Parcells?

Really, who cares? It's a copy-cat league and people have stolen the **** out of his offensive "inventive-ness" and continue to do so every year.

[PRBronco]

@ thread title:
Yes.

[rovolution]

you know...the one thing that bothers me about Shanahan is that for some reason he really hasn't built up a strong "coaching tree" like the really great ones have. Kubiak is basically the first one the branch off. Then again, perhaps its a testament to his genius that others can't easily replicate it. too much shanny love?

Tim Brewster-HC University of Minnesota

Karl Dorrell- Was HC at UCLA

Troy Calhoun- Air Force

Kubiak -Houston Texans


I disagree

[Borks147]

Tim Brewster-HC University of Minnesota

Karl Dorrell- Was HC at UCLA

Troy Calhoun- Air Force

Kubiak -Houston Texans


I disagree

hmmm, I never said I knew much about college football!

[HILife]

yyyeeeaaa that was way to long to read, but to answer your question...............

[lex]

Wow. A lot of what is said about Shanahan post-Elway, could also be said about Belichick pre-Brady,...except that during this time Shanahan has gone 5-1 against Belichick. Not a lot of guys have routinely out 'X' & 'O'd Belichick but Shanahan is one of them. So with that in mind, who can we find thats better? Even though a dearth of talent may have been at Shanahans feet, Im not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater. So to answer the question, until there is someone better who is available.

[Popps]

My stance is that this is a make-or-break year for him.

His legend in Denver is secure. His coaching status probably shouldn't be without some improvement. Last year was a real low point.

He needs to make the playoffs or at least have his team playing playoff football by the end of the season. We need to see one of his teams get better as the year goes on, not worse.

Fairly simple criteria. I think he'll get the job done, personally. But if he doesn't, the calls for him to be accountable are legitimate and will reach a peak next off-season.

I think this will be the first of a few very solid seasons. Maybe that's just wishing, but I think we may have touched bottom last year.

[PLOWHORSE]

Meh...I'm just glad only 1 poster spelled it Shannahan. But Wolf's forthcoming blather will certainly ruin that percentage.

[elsid13]

A great QB makes a coach look real smart. Cutler has a chance to polish Shanahan's star

[Cito Pelon]

Shanahan is a great offensive guy. As HC I have to question his ability - since 1998. Up until 1999, Shanny was kicking ass. The coaching tree referred to above included Dorrell, 'Dinger. Since then Kubiak only, Brewster doesn't count, he was hired from SD and was here only one year. Shanny was the rage of the NFL, The Mastermind.

The HC is supposed to field a good D and ST's also. Shanny has this parade of DC's coming in and going out, and hiring Jim Bates was one of the all-time foolish moves by an HC. His ST's have been consistently average at best in the return game. Never exceptional, not even one year.

So Shanny has been consistently good as an offensive coach, but not so good at D and ST's. One AFC West title since 1998, my god, that's poor by Bronco standards. Meanwhile Oak won 3 consecutive Div titles, and SD won b2b Div titles, 3 out of the last 4. KC and Seattle have won the same number of Div titles as Denver since 1998.

Vermeil, Marty twice, Turner, Gruden twice, Callahan and Holmgren have won AFC West titles since 1998. So what's so great about Shanahan as an HC? That's pretty good company to be in, but if Shanny was so great he should have won more than one, right? Look at the QB's those other coaches won Div titles with. Gannon, Green, Brees, Rivers, Kitna.

Sorry, Shanny's good as an HC but not head and shoulders above, not even within the AFC West since 1998.

Add in he's the guy responsible for player acquisition also, these are hand-picked guys he has playing for him in his HC hat, his talent guru's are hand-picked, his cap guru is hand-picked. Sorry, I'm not real impressed with Shanny since 1998. He hasn't accomplished much.

I hope he has things turned around, but it's fairly ridiculous to talk about Shanny like he's some kind of god-like figure.

As for who to replace him with, I bet half of the current OC's or DC's in the NFL right now could do just as good a job as Shanny has done since 1998 as HC, and maybe having a GM that makes up his own mind instead of Shanny meddling to get his hand-picked guys like Henry and Walker would result in a marked improvement in the Bronco's fortunes.

[Ambiguous]

This stupid argument always stops when someone brings up who to replace him with. He is and probably will be our best option for the forseeable future.

[Cito Pelon]

This stupid argument always stops when someone brings up who to replace him with. He is and probably will be our best option for the forseeable future.

I contend 50% of the OC's and DC's currently in the NFL can replace Shanny without a hitch.

[Inkana7]

I contend 50% of the OC's and DC's currently in the NFL can replace Shanny without a hitch.

Sure.

[SlipperyPete]

Anyone who seriously thinks that a bunch of other teams in the NFL would fall all over themselves to hire Shanny is delusional. His reptutation around the league is at probably the lowest point it's ever been.

- Everyone knows he has to have full control. Yet for every good move he makes in free agency or the draft, there's 5 bad ones that wipe it away.

- He's won his division once in ten years. When he sneaks into the playoffs as a wildcard, he gets blown out.

- Travis Henry, Brandon Marshall, Marcus Thomas, Clarrett, the list goes on and on. He'll bring in anyone regardless of their character. And more often than not it blows up in his face.

- There's been a revolving door of coordinators, and Mike even topped himself this year by getting Sundquist canned.

You could go on all day. I'm sure he'd have no problem getting an offensive coordinator job, but we all know his ego is way too big to take such a big step back.

But a head coach? Honestly, what team would want to bring on such an enormous headache? It would be one thing if he was Belichick, and they could say "well, he's a pompus jerk, he wants to run every little thing, it'll be painful, but at least we'll win". But that can't be said about Shanny, not anymore.

[Bronx33]

wolf?

[Wes Mantooth]

If you can take Jake Plummer to the AFC championship game and make Brian Griese a pro bowler, then you are the coach for me.

[Cito Pelon]

Anyone who seriously thinks that a bunch of other teams in the NFL would fall all over themselves to hire Shanny is delusional. His reptutation around the league is at probably the lowest point it's ever been.

- Everyone knows he has to have full control. Yet for every good move he makes in free agency or the draft, there's 5 bad ones that wipe it away.

- He's won his division once in ten years. When he sneaks into the playoffs as a wildcard, he gets blown out.

- Travis Henry, Brandon Marshall, Marcus Thomas, Clarrett, the list goes on and on. He'll bring in anyone regardless of their character. And more often than not it blows up in his face.

- There's been a revolving door of coordinators, and Mike even topped himself this year by getting Sundquist canned.

You could go on all day. I'm sure he'd have no problem getting an offensive coordinator job, but we all know his ego is way too big to take such a big step back.

But a head coach? Honestly, what team would want to bring on such an enormous headache? It would be one thing if he was Belichick, and they could say "well, he's a pompus jerk, he wants to run every little thing, it'll be painful, but at least we'll win". But that can't be said about Shanny, not anymore.

That seems to be about Shanny's level of competence. Dude's been smoked by HC after HC after HC for quite a bunch of years now. Oh, but he's beaten NE 5-1. He's been smoked in his own Division 8 years out of 9, but he's a winner. I say show me the Titles.

[Los Broncos]

Where do you people think Bowlen draws the line?

[jsco70]

My stance is that this is a make-or-break year for him.

His legend in Denver is secure. His coaching status probably shouldn't be without some improvement. Last year was a real low point.

He needs to make the playoffs or at least have his team playing playoff football by the end of the season. We need to see one of his teams get better as the year goes on, not worse.

Fairly simple criteria. I think he'll get the job done, personally. But if he doesn't, the calls for him to be accountable are legitimate and will reach a peak next off-season.

I think this will be the first of a few very solid seasons. Maybe that's just wishing, but I think we may have touched bottom last year.

I agree almost entirely. But I think Bowlen gives him one more year and then next season is the do or die. However, like you, I think this team bottomed out and is on the upswing. The problem is, due to Shanahan, we didn't sink to 2-14, 3-13 and end up with top five draft picks ala San Diego. Even at his lowest point, Denver still was in contention for the division and the playoffs.

I also wonder Shanahan doesn't just walk away himself if the current team doesn't meet his expectations? Would he walk away with some dignity like John Elway? Or will he tarnish his image like Favre is doing and have to be dragged out? I'd hope he will know when it's time to move on but I doubt it.

[Cito Pelon]

Where do you people think Bowlen draws the line?

Who knows? Shanny is under contract through 2010, I think. Bowlen would have to eat one of the biggest contracts in the NFL if he fired Shanny before then. I'm curious if Bowlen extends the contract again. Usually he extends Shanny at least two years before the contract expires. We'll see.

[colonelbeef]

Shanahan isn't going anywhere, thank goodness. Every single one of you better be ready to eat it when this team goes 11-5 with emerging young stars at QB, HB, FB, WR, TE, LT, DE, DT, and S

[baja]

Mike Shanahan would be the right coach for about 30 teams in the NFL.


What are the two .....

Errr never mind. Raiders and Chiefs right?

[DHallblows]

He had a popular, if not really good, defensive coordinator in Larry Coyer two years ago and fired him.

I stopped here. He single handedly stopped us from going to the Super Bowl with the 15 yard cushion the CBs played against the Steelers

[lex]

This stupid argument always stops when someone brings up who to replace him with. He is and probably will be our best option for the forseeable future.

Exactly.

[errand]

You want to fire a HOF coach. Come on get real.

The Dallas Cowboys fired HoF coach Tom Landry and replaced with an college coach who only went on to win 3 Super Bowls. Bill Belichick couldn't do squat in Cleveland, and yet wins 3 in NE....so sometimes a change of scenery does a person good.

I love the Broncos...not any one player, or coach.

[errand]

That seems to be about Shanny's level of competence. Dude's been smoked by HC after HC after HC for quite a bunch of years now. Oh, but he's beaten NE 5-1. He's been smoked in his own Division 8 years out of 9, but he's a winner. I say show me the Titles.

In fairness to Mike...only Belichick has won more titles since '97.

[lex]

Theres so much distortion in the media and its easy to be affected by it. But when you boil it down, we really dont have it bad with Shanahan at all. There are things about Shanahan that I dont like but in the end, I realize we're better off with him than we are without him. Im really hopeful when it comes to Goodman. Even though Shanahan has had full control over the years, that doesnt mean he doesnt rely on others and Sundquist has really come up short in many ways. While Shanahan is preparing his team during the season, its hard for him to track the college season. I dont really see why people get so hung up on the total control thing for that reason. When you look at the teams weve had since Elway, it could have easily been a lot worse. People make a big deal about the playoffs. Well, all but one of our playoff losses were on the road. HFA advantage matters.

[BroncoInferno]

I contend 50% of the OC's and DC's currently in the NFL can replace Shanny without a hitch.

I contend 50% of your brain is functionless.

[BroncoInferno]

Anyone who seriously thinks that a bunch of other teams in the NFL would fall all over themselves to hire Shanny is delusional.

You're an idiot. Shanny would would be scooped up within 48 hours if Bowlen ever listened to you idiots and got rid of him.

[Peoples Champ]

Where are all the Fire Shanahan people now, Ditka was saying that was some of the best play calling he has seen last week.

[theAPAOps5]

Charlie Weiss was on The Fan this morning. He said all this talk about Shanny losing it is crap. A great coach just doesn't lose his touch. He said its cyclical based on the QB. Look at all the great coaches and they had great QB's.

Point is Shanahan has an elite QB, as it appears so far, I think the Mastermind will be back full stride and evidence supporting that was clearly present in the Oakland game.

[Rock Chalk]

Not true.

Totally not true.

The DJ experiment in the middle was a disaster.

[Hotrod]

What a great thread Ha!

Come on man up

http://johncarmichaels.typepad.com/carmichaels_position/WindowsLiveWriter/Eat%20Crow.jpg

[Rock Chalk]

Where are all the Fire Shanahan people now, Ditka was saying that was some of the best play calling he has seen last week.

Kubes called plays, we were great.

Dinger called plays we ****ign sucked.

Slowik calls plays, now we are much improved.

Dinger and Bates were horrible mistakes.

[theAPAOps5]

The DJ experiment in the middle was a disaster.

I agree but what did you think about his play on the Weak side monday. I can't remember what you said if anything about him in your analysis.

[Rock Chalk]

I agree but what did you think about his play on the Weak side monday. I can't remember what you said if anything about him in your analysis.

Initially nothing but someone commented and I agreed.

I still dont think DJ is a very football smart player. Athletically gifted, and the weakside is where he belongs because he isnt smart enough (U player, what do you expect) to run a defense and you dont have to think, just play at the weakside. His move back is the right move. His position at the middle was a god damn disaster.

I still caught him out of position a couple of times and that's somewhat concerning considering this is his what, 5th year in the league? But I will attribute it to the fact that he is relearning the weakside after a 3 year hiatus.

[Los Broncos]

Same question comes up every year.

He is the right coach, Culter looks great, he has done a great job with him.

If we dont make the playoffs, it will be at least two seasons before he is considered being replaced.

[Ambiguous]

Same question comes up every year.

He is the right coach, Culter looks great, he has done a great job with him.

If we dont make the playoffs, it will be at least two seasons before he is considered being replaced.

And again, no answers as to WHO WE REPLACE HIM WITH.

[Rock Chalk]

And again, no answers as to WHO WE REPLACE HIM WITH.

Well, there are plenty of people out there that can miss the playoffs two years in a row and win only one playoff game in 10 years without a stellar QB.

[Killericon]

You guys and your ****ing playoff wins. The Rams won a playoff game in 2004-2005, we didn't. We had a better ****ing year.

[BMF Bronco]

I honestly believe that if Shanny ever retires (he will NEVER be fired), Kubes will come back and take the HC job here.

[crawdad]

I honestly believe that if Shanny ever retires (he will NEVER be fired), Kubes will come back and take the HC job here.

That is a good call BMF...Kubes would be good in Denver.

[Hotrod]

I honestly believe that if Shanny ever retires (he will NEVER be fired), Kubes will come back and take the HC job here.

I'd be happier then bob at an all you can eat buffet.

[BMF Bronco]

I'd be happier then bob at an all you can eat buffet at a gay, star trek festival.

fixed it for you:thumbs:

[colonelbeef]

Shanahan isn't going anywhere, thank goodness. Every single one of you better be ready to eat it when this team goes 11-5 with emerging young stars at QB, HB, FB, WR, TE, LT, DE, DT, and S

that's right. I am quoting myself. :thanku:

[Chris]

who is responsible for the great draft picks we've had the past 3 years? is that shanny? what happened to the marcus nash picks of yesteryear? gone.

[Rock Chalk]

I honestly believe that if Shanny ever retires (he will NEVER be fired), Kubes will come back and take the HC job here.

Sadly no.
Kubiak is coaching for his hometown team. He is in his dream job already.

If Shanny retires and Kubes is still with Houston, we wont be seeing him in the Orange and Blue.

[Rock Chalk]

You guys and your ****ing playoff wins. The Rams won a playoff game in 2004-2005, we didn't. We had a better ****ing year.

How did we have a better year than a team that won a playoff game?

By that logic, we had a better year than Pittsburgh in 2005. Better record.

Oh wait, they won teh ****ing superbowl. They had a better year.

Teams that win a playoff game have a better year than teams that do not. Thats ****ing retarded ****ign logic (cant let you out eff word me you ****er).

[BMF Bronco]

Sadly no.
Kubiak is coaching for his hometown team. He is in his dream job already.

If Shanny retires and Kubes is still with Houston, we wont be seeing him in the Orange and Blue.

I didn't know that, ****!

[rovolution]

Sadly no.
Kubiak is coaching for his hometown team. He is in his dream job already.

If Shanny retires and Kubes is still with Houston, we wont be seeing him in the Orange and Blue.

Kubes wont last in Houston very long if his team performs like they did against the Steelers last Sunday.

[Killericon]

How did we have a better year than a team that won a playoff game?

By that logic, we had a better year than Pittsburgh in 2005. Better record.

Oh wait, they won teh ****ing superbowl. They had a better year.

Teams that win a playoff game have a better year than teams that do not. Thats ****ing retarded ****ign logic (cant let you out eff word me you ****er).

**** **** ****EDY ****!

My entire point is that you shouldn't say such general things and use blanket rules. I'm not saying that we had a better season because we had a better record, I'm saying we had a better season because we were a better team. The Colts would have beat the Rams waaaay worse, and I believe that the Broncos of 2004-2005 would have not only beaten the Rams of 2004-2005, but the Seahawks of 2004-2005 as well. You're critisizing Shanahan for having only one playoff win in 10 years. That's a very, very broad way to look at it, and I don't like it too much. I think that throwing stats like that around can only be misleading...Its the same as the people who throw Plummer's W/L record around. Plummer's W/L record was misleading, and Shanahan's 1 win stat is misleading. Going back to the Rams analogy...That season, they came out with one playoff win. In 2005, we came out with one playoff win. Sure, their's was against a weak Seahawks team, and ours was the one that ended the Belicheck/Brady Playoff winning streak and advanced us to the AFC Championship game(Where we lost to the eventual Super Bowl Champs), but hey, they're both "Playoff Wins", so why don't we just look at them as equal accomplishments? It seems like that's what you're doing here. You're boiling it down way too much, IMO.

Mike Shanahan has been the model of consistency. Admittedly, it's been consistent 10-6, one and done type teams for a while, here, but he's been the head coach of several teams that had a decent shot at going all the way, IMO.

'96 - Noone saw the Jags coming like that.
'97 - We won.
'98 - We won.
'00 - A stretch, but we had a damn good team. Would have made it into the playoffs if we had not run, with our Backup QB, head first into the eventual champs and their awe-inspiring defense.
'05 - Legit Contenders. Hosted the AFC Championship game.

In my eyes, that's at least 4(The 2000 Squad is highly debatable, so I won't count it) Super Bowl quality teams that he's been the head coach of in 13 years.

And now he's produced a superb offensive unit. He has produced a franchise quarterback, a superstar WR, a text-book example of a security blanket tight end, a pair of bookend tackles, and he's continued our exemplary running game.

That's what I look at when I look at Mike Shanahan's tenure here. I might choose to look at it that particular, complimentary way, but you CERTAINLY choose to look at it as simply One Playoff Win in 10 years.

[Broncos4tw]

Let me make this simple. What coach that would become available, would you rather have in his place? Seriously, the only coaches typically available are ones that were fired from other teams. Established, solid coaches do not go anywhere. So at best, and I mean very best, you get a coach that is almost identical to Shanny. His brilliance being questioned, a falling out, and fired, to find another up and coming team to try again.

Shanny is an excellent coach. Sure, he sometimes makes bad decisions, and has a bit of a power complex probably, but I'd much, much rather have the coach with these issues, than an ower (aka Al Davis). But he can do brilliant things, he handles the players professionaly, he gets the right "type" of players in as much as he can (he does occassionaly take chances), he gets them ready to play, and he uses a teams available assets to the teams best advantage. For example, Griese couldn't pass anything over 10 yards to save his life. So Shanny developed to work around that, best he could. Same with Plummer. He found how he could play the strongest he could, and he build the line and play around that.

Now he is doing it again with Cutler. imo, he is giddy, and excited this year, and you can tell. From his interviews, to his bold prediction about the playoffs, I think he knows what a solid offense he has in the making, and what a great QB Cutler is going to be. And he is able to do SO much more with Cutler driving, than he could with Griese or Plummer and others. He is not limited by any shortcomings. He can do more. And he likes it.

Personally I can't think of a single coach I'd rather have than Shanny. I can't think of any that would make us a better team. Coaches are coaches, but players ultimately determine where a team ends up. Coaches can try to make good decisions or use intuition, but they often can't control stupid decisions by players, and can do nothing about unexpected injuries. I'm willing to give our head coach as many years as Bowlen is willing to.

[SportinOne]

You can't judge a coach based solely on super bowl victories. After all, how many coaches win the super bowl each year? 1. That means 31 other coaches failed. How many coaches can win the Super Bowl in a decade? Maximum of 10. How many did in the last decade? I don't know off the top of my head but the patriots won a few so lets just say 7. And so you still have 25 other active coaches, plus the ones who were fired between then and now who did not win the super bowl in the last decade. Is Jeff Fisher a bad coach? I don't know why when Denver won back to back superbowls that now all of a sudden we HAVE TO GO TO THE SUPER BOWL EVERY YEAR, OR ELSE. We never won it before that, ever! So why now? A 16 game season with single elimination playoffs is a crap shoot. We've had one of the best records in the NFL over Shanahan's tenure and he took a team with JAKE PLUMMER to the AFC Championship game.. stop bitching.

[Tombstone RJ]

You can't judge a coach based solely on super bowl victories. After all, how many coaches win the super bowl each year? 1. That means 31 other coaches failed. How many coaches can win the Super Bowl in a decade? Maximum of 10. How many did in the last decade? I don't know off the top of my head but the patriots won a few so lets just say 7. And so you still have 25 other active coaches, plus the ones who were fired between then and now who did not win the super bowl in the last decade. Is Jeff Fisher a bad coach? I don't know why when Denver won back to back superbowls that now all of a sudden we HAVE TO GO TO THE SUPER BOWL EVERY YEAR, OR ELSE. We never won it before that, ever! So why now? A 16 game season with single elimination playoffs is a crap shoot. We've had one of the best records in the NFL over Shanahan's tenure and he took a team with JAKE PLUMMER to the AFC Championship game.. stop b****ing.


I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll judge Shanahan, from now on, based on one simple stat: post season victories.

That's it. That's the only stat that matters to me. He's had plenty of time since Elway retired to make a run at the big dance, and he has failed. I don't want another Don Shula in Denver. I don't want Shanahan to get an unlimited ride, simply because some idiots on this board want to make the argument, "well, who ya gonna get to replace him?" Like he's the only good coach to ever coach in the NFL. That's assinine.

This is Shanahan's team from top to bottom. He can't blame anyone but himself for this teams lack of post season productivity.

Post season wins, is all that matters, and if Shanahan does not make it to the post season this year (2008), I will deem this season a failure. If Shanahan does not win a post season game next year (2009), I will deem next year a failure. If Shanahan does not get this team to the SB by the following season (2010) I will deem that season a failure.

Regular season wins don't mean alot to me now. We all know Shanny can build a team just good enough to win the majority of regular season games.

[Hamrob]

Ignorant article. It doesn't take a genius to understand what the Broncos have done since Elway retired.

1. They experimented with Brian Griese...didn't work (IMO it was worth a shot at the time...just didn't pan out)
2. They went and got Jake (there wasn't anybody else available and Jake played for arguably the worst franchise in the NFL.) That was worth a shot...and we went to a Championship game...which we lost to the eventual Superbowl Champs.
3. Shanahan strategically found a way to draft "Jay Cutler".
4. He's been grooming Cutler...it is his 3rd year. We will be back in the Playoffs and we will be competitive for the next 10-12 years. We'll probably go to a few Superbowls along the way.
5. We will win another Championship or three with Shanny at the helm. What other coach has brought the Lombardi trophy back to Dove Valley?
6. Shanny will retire arguably as the best Head Coach ever to coach at the NFL level.


Those who don't value a HOF coach like Shanahan are either ignorant or dreamers. As a previous poster stated, let Shanny go, and he'll be snatched up in 2-shakes. Just as Elway was to this organization from a player standpoint...Shanahan is from a coaching standpoint. It will take us a very long time to replace an individual with his knowlege and abilities!

[Cito Pelon]

Where are all the Fire Shanahan people now, Ditka was saying that was some of the best play calling he has seen last week.

Looks like Shanny has the team on the right track after so many years of stumbling. Don't forget Bronco standards are higher than most teams, and the fact is from '99 - '07 was just about the worst stretch since 1977 in Broncoland in terms of Div titles won and playoff games won. There's no changing that fact, it's in the books.

And I'm not sure Shanny was calling the plays, but either way it looks like Shanny has the team poised to meet Bronco standards. Very impressive debut to 2008. Win Sunday and 9 of 14 after that and I think that will take the AFC West Title.

[Cito Pelon]

**** **** ****EDY ****!

My entire point is that you shouldn't say such general things and use blanket rules. I'm not saying that we had a better season because we had a better record, I'm saying we had a better season because we were a better team. The Colts would have beat the Rams waaaay worse, and I believe that the Broncos of 2004-2005 would have not only beaten the Rams of 2004-2005, but the Seahawks of 2004-2005 as well. You're critisizing Shanahan for having only one playoff win in 10 years. That's a very, very broad way to look at it, and I don't like it too much. I think that throwing stats like that around can only be misleading...Its the same as the people who throw Plummer's W/L record around. Plummer's W/L record was misleading, and Shanahan's 1 win stat is misleading. Going back to the Rams analogy...That season, they came out with one playoff win. In 2005, we came out with one playoff win. Sure, their's was against a weak Seahawks team, and ours was the one that ended the Belicheck/Brady Playoff winning streak and advanced us to the AFC Championship game(Where we lost to the eventual Super Bowl Champs), but hey, they're both "Playoff Wins", so why don't we just look at them as equal accomplishments? It seems like that's what you're doing here. You're boiling it down way too much, IMO.

Mike Shanahan has been the model of consistency. Admittedly, it's been consistent 10-6, one and done type teams for a while, here, but he's been the head coach of several teams that had a decent shot at going all the way, IMO.

'96 - Noone saw the Jags coming like that.
'97 - We won.
'98 - We won.
'00 - A stretch, but we had a damn good team. Would have made it into the playoffs if we had not run, with our Backup QB, head first into the eventual champs and their awe-inspiring defense.
'05 - Legit Contenders. Hosted the AFC Championship game.

In my eyes, that's at least 4(The 2000 Squad is highly debatable, so I won't count it) Super Bowl quality teams that he's been the head coach of in 13 years.

And now he's produced a superb offensive unit. He has produced a franchise quarterback, a superstar WR, a text-book example of a security blanket tight end, a pair of bookend tackles, and he's continued our exemplary running game.

That's what I look at when I look at Mike Shanahan's tenure here. I might choose to look at it that particular, complimentary way, but you CERTAINLY choose to look at it as simply One Playoff Win in 10 years.

If Denver would have actually COMPETED in those playoff blowouts as last seed in the playoffs, I would have been much more impressed. But they never competed from the opening whistle. Like you say, you're looking at the bright side.

Back in the present, it sure does look like Shanny is on the right track, with the O anyway. I still have my finger's crossed with the other two units. But, as I've said many a time lately, I'm not convinced there are six better teams in the AFC. If that proves to be the case, and the Broncs actually COMPETE in a playoff game even if they lose, then I'll get off shanny's case a bit. He still has a lot to prove to me. The year's '99 - '07 as I stated above were a poor followup to the years '77 - '98.

[Cito Pelon]

You can't judge a coach based solely on super bowl victories. After all, how many coaches win the super bowl each year? 1. That means 31 other coaches failed. How many coaches can win the Super Bowl in a decade? Maximum of 10. How many did in the last decade? I don't know off the top of my head but the patriots won a few so lets just say 7. And so you still have 25 other active coaches, plus the ones who were fired between then and now who did not win the super bowl in the last decade. Is Jeff Fisher a bad coach? I don't know why when Denver won back to back superbowls that now all of a sudden we HAVE TO GO TO THE SUPER BOWL EVERY YEAR, OR ELSE. We never won it before that, ever! So why now? A 16 game season with single elimination playoffs is a crap shoot. We've had one of the best records in the NFL over Shanahan's tenure and he took a team with JAKE PLUMMER to the AFC Championship game.. stop b****ing.

Who said "we HAVE TO GO TO THE SUPER BOWL EVERY YEAR, OR ELSE."? And really, if you think having only one playoff win, one AFC West Title and an appearance in the AFC Title game is something to crow about during a nine-year stretch, then your expectations and level of satisfaction is way too low.

[lex]

Tonight on NFC playbook Brian Billick did a segment on the WCO and its various versions today. He talked a little bit on Holmgrens version and then he discussed Shanahan's version and in the span of 30-60 seconds must have used the word "brilliant" three times in talking about scheme and play design.

Im perfectly happy with the guy we have.

[Bronx33]

ditto

[BroncoFiend]

Shanny's only flaw was not realizing he needed to rebuild the team after the Super Bowl years. At the time I was glad he didn't but looking back, he was trying to patch gaping holes with Band-Aids.

Even though he'd never admit it, I think he realized that too which is why rather than drafting supporting players for Plummer, he traded up and got Cutler. It probably cost us a playoff appearance or two (which so many want to fire him over) but we are now in a much better position for the future with young guys turning into stars at key positions.

I personally LOVE having Shanny as a coach, now that he has some offensive firepower again, watching Bronco football is gonna be a BLAST!