View Full Version : Boss, Abdullah miss practice with injury
kmonty
08-01-2008, 01:43 PM
http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/2008/08/01/am-blog-day-8/
The Broncos began their second week of training camp Friday morning. Here are some happenings from the a.m. session.
ATTENDANCE REPORT: The out of pads list remained the same as yesterday with Peyton Hillis, Chad Mustard and Tom Nalen not in uniform. Michael Pittman, who was also listed as out of pads, wore his jersey sans his helmet and shoulder pads and while observing drills.
Boss Bailey was held out due to inflamation is his knee and Hamza Abdullah was held out the final portion of practice due to injury.
POSTURING FOR POSITION: The Broncos 2007 draft class showed its presence on the second unit defensive line. Jarvis Moss, Marcus Thomas and Tim Crowder took the reps along with Alvin McKinley.
For the second straight day Nate Webster took reps with the first unit defense. The competition at middle linebacker is still tight between Webster and Niko Koutouvides.
Casey Wiegmann continued to get reps at center with Tom Nalen out with a sore left knee. An MRI on Nalen’s knee came back negative.
FOCAL POINTS: The Broncos offense was clicking throughout practice but that’s not to say the defense didn’t make its fair share of plays.
The team concentrated on its ground attack for a portion of practice. Andre Hall, Selvin Young each made impressive runs through the tacklers and Anthony Alridge had a pair of solid gains one slicing through the middle and another a streak outside towards the sideline.
During offensive vs. defensive linemen one-on-ones, Ryan Clady twice battled Elvis Dumervil coming away the victor even pushing No. 92 to the ground during their second meeting. Ben Hamilton also had an impressive showing during the drill, stopping his man on each of his reps.
The Broncos also worked on its red-zone offense during 7-on-7 drills. The offense came away with several TD strikes through the air during the drill.
TAKE AWAYS: For the second day the team’s practice was officiated by a group of NFL referees. Penalties were hard to come by but the refs signaled a fair share of touchdowns during the red-zone drill.
Roderick Rogers seems to have a knack for coming away with a tipped football. A pass was tipped straight up in the Broncos secondary and Rogers was able to come away with the ball, his third interception of training camp.
Brandon Marshall, in addition to having several TD grabs in the red-zone, reeled in a long strike along the sideline against Champ Bailey.
The team practiced punt returns with Glenn Martinez, Eddie Royal and Samie Parker, a new additon to the return squad, lining up at returner. Brett Kern and Sam Paulescu rotated taking the snaps at punter but let the JUGS machine make the kicks.
Those are the juicy tidbits from this morning. Check back this afternoon for a recap of this afternoon’s special teams session.
Jake Grilley, DenverBroncos.com
Pictures to come….
kmonty
08-01-2008, 01:52 PM
RMN says Abdullah has a slight groin pull that forced him out of the final drills of practice...
socalorado
08-01-2008, 01:54 PM
RMN says Abdullah has a slight groin pull that forced him out of the final drills of practice...
Just rub some tussin on that and he'll be back.
theAPAOps5
08-01-2008, 01:54 PM
Yeah its the end of the first full week of camp. Run of the mill stuff not worthy of worry.
cutthemdown
08-01-2008, 01:57 PM
Webster isn't very good and we all know that right. So if Niko can't beat him out it means we really need to draft a middle linebacker next yr or sign one something. How many teams in the NFL do you think have a better MLB then Webster. Be honest.
broncofan2438
08-01-2008, 01:58 PM
Hopefully the Boss thing isnt a big deal
broncofan2438
08-01-2008, 01:58 PM
Webster isn't very good and we all know that right. So if Niko can't beat him out it means we really need to draft a middle linebacker next yr or sign one something. How many teams in the NFL do you think have a better MLB then Webster. Be honest.
Available?. . . .Not many
my only concern about boss... he's fragile as a physical position.
Nate Webster will start a few games in his place and Larson will start at MLB. Note it down.
Ray Finkle
08-01-2008, 02:07 PM
my only concern about boss... he's fragile as a physical position.
Nate Webster will start a few games in his place and Larson will start at MLB. Note it down.
I just don't see it with Larson....Larson = Beck
socalorado
08-01-2008, 02:08 PM
Spencer Larsen = MLB
Write that down.
I would rather have a young, hungry rookie who isnt super talented play, than a washed up veteran who knows the position, but just cant play.
Larsens a TACKLE MACHINE. Put him in and let him play.
3. Spencer Larsen (http://arizonastate.scout.com/a.z?s=43&p=8&c=1&nid=3070458), LB, Arizona
The epitome of a “lunch pail” defender, Larsen was virtually all over the field for the Wildcat defense, earning first-team All-Pac-10 honors in 2007 after leading the league with 131 tackles, while ranking fourth in the conference with a team-high 15.5 tackles-for-loss. Larsen also tied for the Pac-10 high of four fumble recoveries, while adding four sacks and three forced fumbles last season.
Dominant in the classroom and on the field, the 6-1, 240-pounder received first-team Pac-10 All-Academic recognition his final two seasons in Tucson.
socalorado
08-01-2008, 02:09 PM
I just don't see it with Larson....Larson = Beck
Just give him a week or 2 to learn the system. Check his academic scores out.
Tough AND smart!?!??!
Kaylore
08-01-2008, 02:09 PM
Webster isn't very good and we all know that right. So if Niko can't beat him out it means we really need to draft a middle linebacker next yr or sign one something. How many teams in the NFL do you think have a better MLB then Webster. Be honest.
I think we were going to draft one anyway. Great defenses are built around great middle linebackers.
Ray Finkle
08-01-2008, 02:14 PM
Just give him a week or 2 to learn the system. Check his academic scores out.
Tough AND smart!?!??!
I suggest you look at Beck when he came out and his scores.
Greybeard
08-01-2008, 02:19 PM
Webster isn't very good and we all know that right. So if Niko can't beat him out it means we really need to draft a middle linebacker next yr or sign one something. How many teams in the NFL do you think have a better MLB then Webster. Be honest.
No, we don't necessarily know that. Webster wasn't the greatest at SAM, but
that is out of position for him. Just like D.J. is far better at WILL than he was
at either of the other two positions.
Webster has speed and athleticism, and he hits hard. I'm not willing to throw
him under the bus yet.
-----
TheReverend
08-01-2008, 02:22 PM
I think we were going to draft one anyway. Great defenses are built around great middle linebackers.
I agree, but someone really needs to send San Diego that memo!
kmonty
08-01-2008, 02:26 PM
I agree, but someone really needs to send San Diego that memo!
Well obviously it's more important in the 4-3...
Broncoman13
08-01-2008, 02:26 PM
my only concern about boss... he's fragile as a physical position.
Nate Webster will start a few games in his place and Larson will start at MLB. Note it down.
I'm pulling for Larsen in a big way bro but he's not looking good out there. He'll get put on the PS for a year. He's just not reacting very quickly right now.
TheReverend
08-01-2008, 02:43 PM
Well obviously it's more important in the 4-3...
Not really
Yeah its the end of the first full week of camp. Run of the mill stuff not worthy of worry.
pretty much my thoughts
Florida_Bronco
08-01-2008, 02:47 PM
No, we don't necessarily know that. Webster wasn't the greatest at SAM, but
that is out of position for him. Just like D.J. is far better at WILL than he was
at either of the other two positions.
Webster has speed and athleticism, and he hits hard. I'm not willing to throw
him under the bus yet.
-----
I agree. Webster is a natural MLB and is a good but not great player.
2KBack
08-01-2008, 02:49 PM
Yeah its the end of the first full week of camp. Run of the mill stuff not worthy of worry.
yeah, it actually seems better than normal this year
broncofan2438
08-01-2008, 03:13 PM
yeah, it actually seems better than normal this year
yes it does
cutthemdown
08-01-2008, 03:14 PM
It seems like less injuries league wide sort of. Not like usual when 5-6 name brand players take a hit.
kmonty
08-01-2008, 03:18 PM
Not really
What? A stud mike linebacker in the 4-3 is the centerpiece of the entire thing. If I was building a 4-3 from scratch I'd probably start right there, maybe a dominating DE/DT but MLB would be 1 or 2.
Building a 3-4, I'd start with NT, then get an OLB, then MAYBE an ILB. 3rd or 4th on my defense-building shopping list.
Ian BDB
08-01-2008, 03:28 PM
Just rub some tussin on that and he'll be back.
I was thinking windex.
Beantown Bronco
08-01-2008, 03:29 PM
I was thinking windex.
This isn't Niko we're talking about.
TheReverend
08-01-2008, 03:31 PM
What? A stud mike linebacker in the 4-3 is the centerpiece of the entire thing. If I was building a 4-3 from scratch I'd probably start right there, maybe a dominating DE/DT but MLB would be 1 or 2.
Building a 3-4, I'd start with NT, then get an OLB, then MAYBE an ILB. 3rd or 4th on my defense-building shopping list.
You can call any player the center piece of a defense if that's what you want to base game planning and schemes around.
You've got Jason Taylor, make it him. You have Champ, make it him. You have Polamlu, make it him. You have young Ray Lewis, make it him. So, your personal preference aside, nothing makes a 4-3 MLB more important than a 3-4 MLB.
A 3-4 MLB has to play through more traffic on running downs, because the 3 up front have wider splits in general, and on passing downs his zones are generally the same. Call 3-4 "hybrids" whatever you want, they're ****ing small defensive ends. I don't care if they stand up, that's exactly what they are. They drop in coverage but so do 4-3 DE's. There's nothing that makes a 4-3 MLB more important than a 3-4, except for a D Coordinator's scheme to emphasize his top personnel.
I'm pulling for Larsen in a big way bro but he's not looking good out there. He'll get put on the PS for a year. He's just not reacting very quickly right now.
I'm sure he has a lot going on in his head right now... new defense, new surroundings. I imagine it would be intimidating. What will happen though is Larson will get comfortable and when he does, he'll start playing like he did at U of A when he was in on almost every tackle.
I'm waiting for the lights to turn on. I'll be eagerly watching him during the preseason games because that's when he'll make his mark.
elsid13
08-01-2008, 03:40 PM
I'm sure he has a lot going on in his head right now... new defense, new surroundings. I imagine it would be intimidating. What will happen though is Larson will get comfortable and when he does, he'll start playing like he did at U of A when he was in on almost every tackle.
I'm waiting for the lights to turn on. I'll be eagerly watching him during the preseason games because that's when he'll make his mark.
He just need the opperunity on ST to go down the field and hit someone. Once that happens and he get past the death of his niece, I think he will be fine.
jsco70
08-01-2008, 03:53 PM
My thoughts on Webster:
Positives
1. Enthusiastic
2. Aggressive
3. Flys to the football
4. Decent tackler
Negatives
1. Over pursues
2. Stamina
3. Awareness - he looked lost last season but so did many others
4. Too much showboat after routine tackles
The defensive side of the ball has (had) so many issues, but I believe a top flight MLB is now priority one for next season. Hopefully Moss, Crowder, Thomas can lock down the DL, and Barrett can solidify the safety position.
I don't know enough about Larsen to have an informed opinion so we'll have to wait and see.
Tombstone RJ
08-01-2008, 03:55 PM
I'm pulling for Larsen in a big way bro but he's not looking good out there. He'll get put on the PS for a year. He's just not reacting very quickly right now.
If he's a smart guy, a thinker, it may be a bit of the ole paralysis by analysis thing going on. I hope he can make it work, because he sounds like he's got great potential to lead the defense.
cutthemdown
08-01-2008, 03:56 PM
Available?. . . .Not many
obviously nothing available now I'm talking about next yr. No way are Webster and Niko going to get it done.
cutthemdown
08-01-2008, 03:59 PM
No, we don't necessarily know that. Webster wasn't the greatest at SAM, but
that is out of position for him. Just like D.J. is far better at WILL than he was
at either of the other two positions.
Webster has speed and athleticism, and he hits hard. I'm not willing to throw
him under the bus yet.
-----
He's been around long enough to know what he is. He's not someone who will anchor a linebacking corps. Look at the history of the Broncos at the MLB spot it's filled with good players not avg ones. For us to be good our linebackers have to be good, it's always been that way in Denver. How we neglected them in the draft is what led us to this.
Kaylore
08-01-2008, 03:59 PM
I tend agree with Kmonty that you build your defense around a mike linebaker in a 4-3. You can do it in a 3-4 too as we'll see with Patrick Willis in San Fran, but I don't think you can build a defense around a player in the secondary. When I think of the great defenses that people remember through the years, an overwhelming majority had great middle linebackers.
jsco70
08-01-2008, 04:05 PM
I tend agree with Kmonty that you build your defense around a mike linebaker in a 4-3. You can do it in a 3-4 too as we'll see with Patrick Willis in San Fran, but I don't think you can build a defense around a player in the secondary. When I think of the great defenses that people remember through the years, an overwhelming majority had great middle linebackers.
I agree. Hard to build a defense around a safety or corner that plays the majority of the game 15 yards or greater from the LOS. Last season is a perfect example. Champ, Bly and Lynch could only do so much.
socalorado
08-01-2008, 04:10 PM
My thoughts on Webster:
Positives
1. Enthusiastic
2. Aggressive
3. Flys to the football
4. Decent tackler
5. Helmets always fly off!!
Negatives
1. Over pursues
2. Stamina
3. Awareness - he looked lost last season but so did many others
4. Too much showboat after routine tackles
The defensive side of the ball has (had) so many issues, but I believe a top flight MLB is now priority one for next season. Hopefully Moss, Crowder, Thomas can lock down the DL, and Barrett can solidify the safety position.
I don't know enough about Larsen to have an informed opinion so we'll have to wait and see.
You missed one
socalorado
08-01-2008, 04:12 PM
I agree. Hard to build a defense around a safety or corner that plays the majority of the game 15 yards or greater from the LOS. Last season is a perfect example. Champ, Bly and Lynch could only do so much.
I agree. You cant build a defense around a CB or a safety.
They can only do so much.
In the 4-3, its the MLB. (and of course the guys up front!)
kmonty
08-01-2008, 04:15 PM
You can call any player the center piece of a defense if that's what you want to base game planning and schemes around.
You've got Jason Taylor, make it him. You have Champ, make it him. You have Polamlu, make it him. You have young Ray Lewis, make it him. So, your personal preference aside, nothing makes a 4-3 MLB more important than a 3-4 MLB.
A 3-4 MLB has to play through more traffic on running downs, because the 3 up front have wider splits in general, and on passing downs his zones are generally the same. Call 3-4 "hybrids" whatever you want, they're ****ing small defensive ends. I don't care if they stand up, that's exactly what they are. They drop in coverage but so do 4-3 DE's. There's nothing that makes a 4-3 MLB more important than a 3-4, except for a D Coordinator's scheme to emphasize his top personnel.
But the wider splits go hand-in-hand with the fact that you have TWO ILB's in a 3-4. The RB getting through the DL happens either way, the 4-3 Mike has more field to cover. When you think of a sideline to sideline playmaker on defense, you think of 4-3 Mikes.
I hate hate HATE making this comparison, because it validates something that's total bull****, but just look at how many 3-4 ILB's are in the HOF. It's one of the reasons Randy Gradishar isn't in.
Ray Finkle
08-01-2008, 04:20 PM
Intelligence does dictate success....there are several bright players that are not stars (points at Beck) or look at all the players that are smart and have the size but not the talent.
Larson can be a good player but I believe most of you are drinking the cool aid if you think he is going to be Zach Thomas II.
skpac1001
08-01-2008, 04:32 PM
Isnt the importance of the MLB declining? Having a bad mofo at MLB was essential for a good 4-3 in the past, but havent they been de-emphasised, both in the draft (Jimmy Johnson right?) and also thier role on the field? I think as many of the better defenses today have unexceptional MLBs as have superstars.
ozomulsion
08-01-2008, 04:32 PM
No, we don't necessarily know that. Webster wasn't the greatest at SAM, but
that is out of position for him. Just like D.J. is far better at WILL than he was
at either of the other two positions.
Webster has speed and athleticism, and he hits hard. I'm not willing to throw
him under the bus yet.
-----
Very true, if you ask any Bengal fan they'll tell you he was the most talented MLB they've had in many many years. Many of them were pissed to see him go.
He's not smart, not the kind of player you move out of position. He's a good MLB, who could've been great, had he bothered to put more time in the fundamentals of the game.
Dendave
08-01-2008, 06:15 PM
here we go with Boss...let me first say I hope he does well in Denver...but this is his MO...he doesn't practice...that was his problem in Detroit...hopefully it's not serious so he can learn the defense
DivineLegion
08-01-2008, 06:27 PM
Nate might suprise some people around here...
things of note:
1. He played out of position last season because the Broncos knew DJ was gone if they made him play another season at SLB
2. He developed alot of good chemistry with DJ after the two U players were lining up as starters together last season.
3. He is essentialy a poor mans Al Wilson, he can do alot of the things that Al did hes just not as smart and savvy...probably not as fast either...Damn I miss Al
4. Tenacity, and the imtemidation factor. If we line up with Nate instead of Niko were going to see three big rangy linebackers flying to ball carriers and dishing some serious punishment. Nate loves the big hit and we will see plenty of it.
jsco70
08-01-2008, 06:45 PM
here we go with Boss...let me first say I hope he does well in Denver...but this is his MO...he doesn't practice...that was his problem in Detroit...hopefully it's not serious so he can learn the defense
And we all know how much Shanahan likes players that don't practice. It would be interesting to see if he'll come down on Boss with Champ around?
TheReverend
08-01-2008, 06:59 PM
But the wider splits go hand-in-hand with the fact that you have TWO ILB's in a 3-4. The RB getting through the DL happens either way, the 4-3 Mike has more field to cover. When you think of a sideline to sideline playmaker on defense, you think of 4-3 Mikes.
I hate hate HATE making this comparison, because it validates something that's total bull****, but just look at how many 3-4 ILB's are in the HOF. It's one of the reasons Randy Gradishar isn't in.
That's silly. It's 7 on 7 up front no matter how you slice it, only with the wider splits you've got at least A guard in their business, versus if you have ONE player commanding a double team, usually your 4-3 Mike gets to play clean.
Lewis is still being used as a sideline to sideline player in a 3-4, as is Patrick Willis currently, and you can free those guys up by having your nose shade over the center to their side. Their defense is SCHEMED to their strengths!
In fact, Urlacher and Tatupu are the only two that come close to being "sideline to sideline" and their defense is SCHEMED to that end!
Playing inside is every bit as important for both.
TheReverend
08-01-2008, 07:04 PM
I tend agree with Kmonty that you build your defense around a mike linebaker in a 4-3. You can do it in a 3-4 too as we'll see with Patrick Willis in San Fran, but I don't think you can build a defense around a player in the secondary. When I think of the great defenses that people remember through the years, an overwhelming majority had great middle linebackers.
I beg to differ. A great player is a great player and will impact your entire defense in every phase of the game.
Say your building a defense from scratch and you get Bailey right away. Now you know you have a player than can shut down his man/zone and come up in run support to make the tackle at the LOS +/- 2 yards. Now you can roll your zone coverages and even your alignments slightly to the other side to compensate for weaker players. The QB will be looking the other way in almost every other drop... get a decent pass rusher who can put his arms up and get some deflections and try to zone out the other side of the field. Having contain on the outside vs the run also helps tighten gaps for the front seven.
A player in the secondary can every bit as much of an impact to build around as a lineman or a linebacker.
jsco70
08-01-2008, 10:03 PM
I beg to differ. A great player is a great player and will impact your entire defense in every phase of the game.
Say your building a defense from scratch and you get Bailey right away. Now you know you have a player than can shut down his man/zone and come up in run support to make the tackle at the LOS +/- 2 yards. Now you can roll your zone coverages and even your alignments slightly to the other side to compensate for weaker players. The QB will be looking the other way in almost every other drop... get a decent pass rusher who can put his arms up and get some deflections and try to zone out the other side of the field. Having contain on the outside vs the run also helps tighten gaps for the front seven.
A player in the secondary can every bit as much of an impact to build around as a lineman or a linebacker.
Wasn't Denver's strong point the secondary? Two hall of famers, a solid pro in Bly and they gave up over 400 total points last season. A quality offensive coordinator can scheme safeties out of the play, while the QB can simply avoid a top flight corner.
That said, I agree with you there have been impact players in the secondary that were cornerstones to their defense. Rodney Harrison, Ronnie Lott, Atwater, Deion, Darrell Green to name a few. However, I believe the key is to have impact players in the front seven.
Cito Pelon
08-01-2008, 10:54 PM
Webster isn't very good and we all know that right. So if Niko can't beat him out it means we really need to draft a middle linebacker next yr or sign one something. How many teams in the NFL do you think have a better MLB then Webster. Be honest.
It's difficult for me to see a lot of TO's generated this year from the LB corps. That's as far as I want to go with the criticism.
Cito Pelon
08-01-2008, 11:08 PM
Just give him a week or 2 to learn the system. Check his academic scores out.
Tough AND smart!?!??!
I wish him the best of luck. Same with this Barrett kid.
TheReverend
08-02-2008, 09:35 AM
Wasn't Denver's strong point the secondary? Two hall of famers, a solid pro in Bly and they gave up over 400 total points last season. A quality offensive coordinator can scheme safeties out of the play, while the QB can simply avoid a top flight corner.
That said, I agree with you there have been impact players in the secondary that were cornerstones to their defense. Rodney Harrison, Ronnie Lott, Atwater, Deion, Darrell Green to name a few. However, I believe the key is to have impact players in the front seven.
...and a quality defensive coordinator can move the safety around to keep him in the play. Your second paragraph was much better!