Obama told no media for hospital visit

[cutthemdown]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-visit26-2008jul26,0,5392381.story


Military says it set rules for Obama hospital visit
The Pentagon told the Democrat that no media or campaign aides could come along, its spokesman says. Obama canceled plans to see wounded troops in Germany.
By Peter Spiegel and Michael Finnegan, Times Staff Writers
July 26, 2008
U.S. military authorities told advisors to Barack Obama this week that he could not bring press or campaign staff on a visit to wounded troops from Iraq and Afghanistan at a hospital in Germany, a Pentagon spokesman said Friday.

After advisors learned of the restriction, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee canceled his scheduled visit Friday to the military's Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in southern Germany.

Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell cited a military directive that activities "reasonably viewed as directly or indirectly associating the [Defense Department] with a partisan political activity" should be avoided.

The military was prepared to accommodate Obama's traveling press and campaign staff at the passenger terminal at Ramstein Air Base, the U.S. Air Force base where his campaign's chartered Boeing 757 had been cleared to land, Morrell said.

But, he said, only Obama and his Senate staff could visit the hospital.

Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs initially released a statement saying the senator had decided to cancel out of respect for the troops, because it would be inappropriate on "a trip funded by the campaign."

That statement said nothing about the Pentagon restriction. Gibbs later said it became apparent the Pentagon "would have tried to politicize this, and then others would try to politicize this."

Presumptive GOP nominee John McCain criticized Obama on Thursday for canceling the visit, saying it was never inappropriate to visit U.S. troops.



LOL at Obama the media darling not wanting to be separated from his media even long enough to see some injured troops.

[That One Guy]

Wow...

That's rough. Using wounded soldiers as publicity... I... well, I was about to say I wouldn't have expected that from Obama but I guess you never know what's coming next from a politician.

[That One Guy]

LOL at Obama the media darling not wanting to be separated from his media even long enough to see some injured troops.

I didn't see it as not wanting to be away from his media people, I saw it as that was the justification for being there in the first place. Get some good footage for the news or campaign commercials of him visiting the wounded soldiers.. if he can't get his footage, why go?

[TDmvp]

Yea this was B.S. ... what no photo op ... o hell no i aint going to meet some troops without my handlers if there no chance i wont get on TV for it ...

[Pseudofool]

Use your heads, look at multiple sources! The LA Times story isn't quoting Gibbs' full statements.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/07/25/no_troop_visits_for_obama_in_g.html
"Senator Obama had hoped to and had every intention of visiting our troops to express his appreciation and gratitude for their service to our country," retired Air Force Major General Scott Gration, an Obama adviser, said in a statement.

"We learned from the Pentagon [Wednesday] night that the visit would be viewed instead as a campaign event. Senator Obama did not want to have a trip to see our wounded warriors perceived as a campaign event ... and decided instead not to go."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0708/Obama_camp_says_Pentagon_nixed_troop_visit.html?sh owall
Senior strategist Robert Gibbs said the visit to the military hospital in Germany had been in the works for about three weeks, with Gration serving as the campaign's contact with the Pentagon.

The Pentagon cleared the Obama plan to land at the base on either July 15 or 16, Gibbs said. The plane needed the clearance because of restrictions on landing nonmilitary aircraft there, he said.

But then on Wednesday, Gration told Obama aides that the Pentagon had informed him that the visit could be viewed as a campaign stop.

"They cited a regulation," Gibbs said of their point of contact, described as legislative affairs in the office of the secretary.

"We believed that based on the information we received that any presence, even his own and only his own, would get into a back and forth on whether his own presence was a campaign event," Gibbs said

[Pseudofool]

BTW: Obama also prevented the press from following him around in Iraq. The press was pretty ticked about it (see NBC's Andrea Mitchell). He held no press conferences in either war zone. Here's a clip:
<iframe src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/25787623#25787623" scrolling="no" width="425" frameborder="0" height="339"></iframe>

Try to ignore Matthews swooning, and focus on what Andrea Mitchell begins say at time stamp 5:00 min mark, while Obama is shooting hoops. "He didn't have reporters with him, he didn't have press pool, didn't do press conference while he was on the ground in either Afgahnstan or Iraq" she goes to say how she's pissed no journalists were allowed.

So at EVERY contact point with the military, the press has not been allowed. Even if Obama went to the hospital, the military would still take pictures; there would still be a photo-op.

[cutthemdown]

here comes the left wing spin job. Spin away it doesn't matter. As long as us neo-cons have some stuff to keep us happy that is all we care about.

Obama is a coke snorting, media hording, photo op whoring, muslim cohorting left wing socialist. YEAHHHHHH BOY!!!!!!!!!

[Pseudofool]

here comes the left wing spin job. Spin away it doesn't matter. As long as us neo-cons have some stuff to keep us happy that is all we care about.

Obama is a coke snorting, media hording, photo op whoring, muslim cohorting left wing socialist. YEAHHHHHH BOY!!!!!!!!!
I sense the sarcasm, but not everyone does. What spin can I make if the military never allows the press at these type of events, yet Obama spent days in Afganstand and Iraq without hte press, and certainly would have had photos of him with vets if he had chosen to go.

[That One Guy]

I sense the sarcasm, but not everyone does. What spin can I make if the military never allows the press at these type of events, yet Obama spent days in Afganstand and Iraq without hte press, and certainly would have had photos of him with vets if he had chosen to go.

Do you think the trips to Iraq, Afghanistan, and everywhere else on his world tour was anything other than publicity? He's trying to get his world image up, plain and simple. Even if the military doesn't allow him cameras for those situations, the publicity is still there because *quiver* he visited a war zone!!!

He should've been considering whether stopping by to see the wounded soldiers was a political stunt before he planned it rather than wait until the military restricted his media potential and THEN decided against it. Maybe he called it off because he felt bad about using it in his campaign, but maybe he did it because he couldn't get the footage. We don't know now but the fact that it was full steam ahead until, as I understand it, the military said no cameras suggests that the cameras were the deciding factor and not his conscience.

[Pseudofool]

Do you think the trips to Iraq, Afghanistan, and everywhere else on his world tour was anything other than publicity? He's trying to get his world image up, plain and simple. Even if the military doesn't allow him cameras for those situations, the publicity is still there because *quiver* he visited a war zone!!!

He should've been considering whether stopping by to see the wounded soldiers was a political stunt before he planned it rather than wait until the military restricted his media potential and THEN decided against it. Maybe he called it off because he felt bad about using it in his campaign, but maybe he did it because he couldn't get the footage. We don't know now but the fact that it was full steam ahead until, as I understand it, the military said no cameras suggests that the cameras were the deciding factor and not his conscience.
Can't he both sincere and take political gain? Was it not John McCain who dared, no demanded, that Obama go to the warfront? I'm not oblivious to the favorable optics of the trip, but there was also great risk if Obama had said something non-apropos. Many thought the trip abroad was a bad idea.

If you think McCain's a better choice fine, but let's not pretend that McCain wasn't in Colombia or giving a speech in Canada just weeks ago. Or driving around in a golfcart with George H. Bush.

I also think you have it wrong; the military has camera's of their own (i.e all the picture of Obama in Iraq and Afgahnstan come from the military). Obama stepped aside because the Pentagon suggested that hte visit to the hospital would be too politicized, not because there wasn't media allowed there. Again, the military has their own media outlet. Obama did not want to politicize wounded troops which is something he should be commended for, not derided. But I suppose you can buy the LA times spin--even though I've demonstrated that they weren't showing the full context of Obama's decision.

[That One Guy]

Can't he both sincere and take political gain? Was it not John McCain who dared, no demanded, that Obama go to the warfront? I'm not oblivious to the favorable optics of the trip, but there was also great risk if Obama had said something non-apropos. Many thought the trip abroad was a bad idea.

If you think McCain's a better choice fine, but let's not pretend that McCain wasn't in Colombia or giving a speech in Canada just weeks ago. Or driving around in a golfcart with George H. Bush.

I also think you have it wrong; the military has camera's of their own (i.e all the picture of Obama in Iraq and Afgahnstan come from the military). Obama stepped aside because the Pentagon suggested that hte visit to the hospital would be too politicized, not because there wasn't media allowed there. Again, the military has their own media outlet. Obama did not want to politicize wounded troops which is something he should be commended for, not derided. But I suppose you can buy the LA times spin--even though I've demonstrated that they weren't showing the full context of Obama's decision.

Well there's two angles to this and we don't know what the reasoning was for the cancellation. Apparently the military didn't mind the trips, just said his media couldn't go in. Either way, Obama was losing in this deal. If he visits the troops, some out there would clamor about using them but if he doesn't, then he wronged them. I just think if the political aspect is actually the justification of why he avoided the place, he should've figured that out before the cameras were told they couldn't join because then the circumstances look bad.

[Drek]

Well there's two angles to this and we don't know what the reasoning was for the cancellation. Apparently the military didn't mind the trips, just said his media couldn't go in. Either way, Obama was losing in this deal. If he visits the troops, some out there would clamor about using them but if he doesn't, then he wronged them. I just think if the political aspect is actually the justification of why he avoided the place, he should've figured that out before the cameras were told they couldn't join because then the circumstances look bad.

The Obama campaign had never even TOLD the press about his plans to visit wounded troops. It wasn't even on the schedule of events they'd given all of them.

The first anyone outside the Obama campaign and the Pentagon heard of this was when the Obama campaign canceled it.

Funnily enough, that corresponded directly to when the Pentagon said that it would be viewed as a partisan political event, not just visiting the troops.

It was made pretty clear that the republican biased staffers within the Pentagon had set this up to give McCain a talking point no matter how Obama played it. Obama's campaign saw this and just walked away.

Blame the bias present in our military for this, not Obama. It was clearly a political catch 22 set up to get a liberal presidential candidate who wants to curb military spending cast in a negative light. And using wounded troops to do it. That much is obvious as soon as they start referring to it as a partisan visit, not just a senator doing the right thing, as he's done before, and with no political scandal attached.

[That One Guy]

The Obama campaign had never even TOLD the press about his plans to visit wounded troops. It wasn't even on the schedule of events they'd given all of them.

The first anyone outside the Obama campaign and the Pentagon heard of this was when the Obama campaign canceled it.

Funnily enough, that corresponded directly to when the Pentagon said that it would be viewed as a partisan political event, not just visiting the troops.

It was made pretty clear that the republican biased staffers within the Pentagon had set this up to give McCain a talking point no matter how Obama played it. Obama's campaign saw this and just walked away.

Blame the bias present in our military for this, not Obama. It was clearly a political catch 22 set up to get a liberal presidential candidate who wants to curb military spending cast in a negative light. And using wounded troops to do it. That much is obvious as soon as they start referring to it as a partisan visit, not just a senator doing the right thing, as he's done before, and with no political scandal attached.

I don't know. I don't have enough details to say what the circumstances were exactly. Looks like Obama walked into the trap though.

If it were really a trap, thats pretty lame on the other side then. We can't and wont know the truth though so Obama should've protected himself if this was a possibility. At very least, he has to remember this for the future. Politics are brutal and they need to stay on their toes.

[frerottenextelway]

He should've been considering whether stopping by to see the wounded soldiers was a political stunt before he planned it rather than wait until the military restricted his media potential and THEN decided against it.


They were given permission on July 15th before the Pentagon changed it a day before he was scheduled.

[frerottenextelway]

We don't know now but the fact that it was full steam ahead until, as I understand it, the military said no cameras suggests that the cameras were the deciding factor and not his conscience.

That's false. He visited Walter Reed and the injured troops in Kuwait and Iraq without any press or cameras with him. In fact, for the German base military visit, the press and cameras were scheduled to be left behind.

The problem is, there are certain people who don't want to see the ****er as President, so verifiable truths don't seem to be important.

[That One Guy]

OK, I should have worded that as I don't know rather than we don't know. Sounds like this is a non-story, I guess.

[frerottenextelway]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0708/Obama_camp_says_Pentagon_nixed_troop_visit.html?sh owall

My colleague Carrie Budoff Brown, traveling with Obama, sends over more information from a briefing offered by Gibbs:

Senior strategist Robert Gibbs said the visit to the military hospital in Germany had been in the works for about three weeks, with Gration serving as the campaign's contact with the Pentagon.

The Pentagon cleared the Obama plan to land at the base on either July 15 or 16, Gibbs said. The plane needed the clearance because of restrictions on landing nonmilitary aircraft there, he said.

But then on Wednesday, Gration told Obama aides that the Pentagon had informed him that the visit could be viewed as a campaign stop.

"They cited a regulation," Gibbs said of their point of contact, described as legislative affairs in the office of the secretary.

"We believed that based on the information we received that any presence, even his own and only his own, would get into a back and forth on whether his own presence was a campaign event," Gibbs said.

Obama decided on the flight Wednesday from Tel Aviv to Berlin not to visit the hospital.

Asked why he believed the Pentagon would clear the visit, then raised questions about it, Gibbs declined to speculate: "I don't know what to make of it."

Asked whether he thought the Pentagon set up the campaign for a political embarrassment, Gibbs said no.

Lovely ain't it?

[frerottenextelway]

http://forumpolitics.com/images/Obama-McCain-Lol.jpg

[That One Guy]

Asked whether he thought the Pentagon set up the campaign for a political embarrassment, Gibbs said no.

Lovely ain't it?

So what's the point?

[TDmvp]

http://forumpolitics.com/images/Obama-McCain-Lol.jpg

yea cause lots of people in Germany get to vote in November and no one in Ohio matters ...

[Spider]

I havent opened the link really havent read much on this thread why ? cause i already know what it is bout....... Obama shows up unannounced , workers see Cameras and democrats , they say Michale Moore is somewhere , so the powers to be at the hospital say it is a campaign event so they restrict Obama and his media .......... Blah blah blah ............

[peacepipe]

What's laughable is that McCain did everything he could to try and push Obama into going overseas. Now every rep is crying that he did. BTW It takes more than a 1 trick pony as in McCain to be president. Being president also carries the unofficial duty of also being a world leader. There's no such thing as a good leader that has no followers.

[That One Guy]

What's laughable is that McCain did everything he could to try and push Obama into going overseas. Now every rep is crying that he did. BTW It takes more than a 1 trick pony as in McCain to be president. Being president also carries the unofficial duty of also being a world leader. There's no such thing as a good leader that has no followers.

Is it laughable because Obama is trying to appease everyone yet falling into the traps then? That's what I get out of your post. Mccain convinced him that he had to go overseas and then he got mocked for doing so while Mccain sits in his German Restaurant chuckling in the corner.

This is two supposed traps that Obama has fallen into in this thread alone.

[That One Guy]

yea cause lots of people in Germany get to vote in November and no one in Ohio matters ...

Maybe he's sucking up the brainpower of all the Germans... I was wondering what the hell that pose was. Sure was hoping a prospective commander in cheif didn't think that was a salute...

[peacepipe]

Is it laughable because Obama is trying to appease everyone yet falling into the traps then? That's what I get out of your post. Mccain convinced him that he had to go overseas and then he got mocked for doing so while Mccain sits in his German Restaurant chuckling in the corner.

This is two supposed traps that Obama has fallen into in this thread alone.Traps that have backfired on McCain.

[That One Guy]

Traps that have backfired on McCain.

Not if Obama's the one being mocked for his world tour and being accused of giving up on the injured soldiers when it couldn't be a media event.

[peacepipe]

Not if Obama's the one being mocked for his world tour and being accused of giving up on the injured soldiers when it couldn't be a media event.
Mocked by who republicans,fox news, john McCain? like they have any credibility.

[Pseudofool]

Is it laughable because Obama is trying to appease everyone yet falling into the traps then? That's what I get out of your post. Mccain convinced him that he had to go overseas and then he got mocked for doing so while Mccain sits in his German Restaurant chuckling in the corner.

This is two supposed traps that Obama has fallen into in this thread alone.And how many traps has McCain fallen in without having anyone even set them? Seriously, viewing Obama's trip abroad as anything but an astounding success is just well sheepishly naive--to put it nicely.

[frerottenextelway]

So what's the point?

Other than the ridiculously false allegations that Obama wanted to use "wounded soldiers as publicity"?

[frerottenextelway]

yea cause lots of people in Germany get to vote in November and no one in Ohio matters ...

A little over 13,000 in Berlin get to vote. I'm not sure about the totals for rest of Germany or the number of our military stationed there.

Love (facts)

[frerottenextelway]

Not if Obama's the one being mocked for his world tour and being accused of giving up on the injured soldiers when it couldn't be a media event.

It (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/55_rate_obama_s_berlin_speech_good_or_excellent_46 _think_europe_should_be_more_like_u_s) Went (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109099/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Retains-Lead-48-41.aspx) Well (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll)

[Spider]

The right wing world is falling apart ..........And duct tape won save it ..........

[Rigs11]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-visit26-2008jul26,0,5392381.story


Military says it set rules for Obama hospital visit
The Pentagon told the Democrat that no media or campaign aides could come along, its spokesman says. Obama canceled plans to see wounded troops in Germany.
By Peter Spiegel and Michael Finnegan, Times Staff Writers
July 26, 2008
U.S. military authorities told advisors to Barack Obama this week that he could not bring press or campaign staff on a visit to wounded troops from Iraq and Afghanistan at a hospital in Germany, a Pentagon spokesman said Friday.

After advisors learned of the restriction, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee canceled his scheduled visit Friday to the military's Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in southern Germany.

Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell cited a military directive that activities "reasonably viewed as directly or indirectly associating the [Defense Department] with a partisan political activity" should be avoided.

The military was prepared to accommodate Obama's traveling press and campaign staff at the passenger terminal at Ramstein Air Base, the U.S. Air Force base where his campaign's chartered Boeing 757 had been cleared to land, Morrell said.

But, he said, only Obama and his Senate staff could visit the hospital.

Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs initially released a statement saying the senator had decided to cancel out of respect for the troops, because it would be inappropriate on "a trip funded by the campaign."

That statement said nothing about the Pentagon restriction. Gibbs later said it became apparent the Pentagon "would have tried to politicize this, and then others would try to politicize this."

Presumptive GOP nominee John McCain criticized Obama on Thursday for canceling the visit, saying it was never inappropriate to visit U.S. troops.



LOL at Obama the media darling not wanting to be separated from his media even long enough to see some injured troops.
and the sheep keep following along. He didn't want to use the injured soldiers as a campaign photo op.That is why he did not go. If he would have gone I bet you would have been the first one in here cryiing about him using the soldiers for political gain.Meanwhile you give mccane a pass for not supporting the soldiers by opposing the gi bill. bravo.

[frerottenextelway]

McCain sinks to new low - sells soul.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12072.html

Signaling a new aggressiveness, aides to Sen. John McCain (D-Ariz.) said Saturday that he is going up immediately with an ad called "Troops" criticizing Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) for canceling plans to visit wounded troops at a U.S. military hospital in Germany.

The 30-second ad is to run during NBC's "Saturday Night Live" in Denver. Colorado is one of this election's most important swing states.

The spot is to begin Sunday in the Washington market and in Harrisburg, Pa., another key swing state.

An announcer says: "Barack Obama never held a single Senate hearing on Afghanistan. He hadn't been to Iraq in years. He voted against funding our troops. And now, he made time to go to the gym, but cancelled a visit with wounded troops. Seems the Pentagon wouldn't allow him to bring cameras. John McCain is always there for our troops. McCain. Country first."

The ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/49hC9TpP_rY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/49hC9TpP_rY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

There's a special place in Hell for people like McCain.

[frerottenextelway]

McCain - 5/24/07 How can we possibly find honor in using the fate of our servicemen to score political advantage in Washington? There is no pride to be had in such efforts. We are at war, a hard and challenging war, and we do no service for the best of us-those who fight and risk all on our behalf-by playing politics with their service

Bet we'll have a rebuttal ad destroying McCain on this by midnight.

[Rigs11]

McCain sinks to new low - sells soul.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12072.html



The ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/49hC9TpP_rY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/49hC9TpP_rY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

There's a special place in Hell for people like McCain.

Ads like this will continue because they work on a large percentage of simpleton voters.The same ones that believe that obama is the main reason that we have an oil crisis, per a mccain tv ad,even though obama has only been a politician for 5 years.

[frerottenextelway]

Ads like this will continue because they work on a large percentage of simpleton voters.The same ones that believe that obama is the main reason that we have an oil crisis, per a mccain tv ad,even though obama has only been a politician for 5 years.

It could have some effect with low information voters. But one thing I found in the primary, was that the Obama campaign was better at the counter punch than the punch - and this provides him a real opportunity. The facts and the MSM will also be on Obama's side on this issue.

I think it also shows a whole lot of desperation in the McCain camp. I know there's high level people in his operation that feel his chance went down the drain this week.

[OrangeDoofus]

Is it laughable because Obama is trying to appease everyone yet falling into the traps then? That's what I get out of your post. Mccain convinced him that he had to go overseas and then he got mocked for doing so while Mccain sits in his German Restaurant chuckling in the corner.

This is two supposed traps that Obama has fallen into in this thread alone.
You think the guy who gave an interview from the "Sausage Haus" restaurant beat the guy who gave a speech from the Victory Monument in Berlin? Really?

Basically in the last week and a half McCain's entire campaign strategy has blown up in his face. He's been mocking Obama for not going abroad, not seeing the situation in Iraq first-hand. "You know, I'm sure Obama means well and all, but if he actually visited Iraq and saw the situation with his own eyes, he'd totally agree that I'm right and we should stay there until the situation is secure and the Iraqi government asks us to leave."

And when Obama actually does go abroad, what happens? The Iraqi Prime Minister comes out and says "Yeah, actually Obama's plan sounds good to me." Obama gets photographed looking all informed and presidential riding with Petraeus in a helicopter overflying the conflict areas in Iraq. McCain rides around in a golf cart with Bush, Sr. Obama gives a speech at the Temple of Hurcules in Jordan. McCain goes on TV interviews to explain how even though he supports Maliki's timetable and Maliki supports Obama's timetable, he still thinks Obama's plan is totally terrible. Obama get warm receptions in Berlin, Paris, London. McCain gives a radio address whining about how he's not getting any attention anymore.

This whole Maliki thing is a huge blow for McCain. Foreign policy was supposed to be his area of strength, the issue where his years of experience in the Senate and his many visits to Iraq were supposed to make him far more appealing to voters than the "inexperienced" and "naive" Obama. And now the prime minister of Iraq, who pretty obviously knows more about Iraq than Obama and McCain put together, has basically come out and said "Obama's right."

That's the end of McCain's advantage on Iraq. The best McCain can do on the Iraq issue now is try to blur the line between himself and Obama, play for a draw, and hope everyone forgets what he was saying before two weeks ago. And hey, considering what a short memory the media has, it's probably his best move at this point.

But if McCain does that, he gives up the only issue where he had a real advantage. What the hell else is he going to run on? The economy? Obama wins. Immigration? Obama wins. The budget? Obama wins. Social issues? Obama wins.

Once Iraq is gone, McCain has nothing left to run on. And Iraq just blew up in his face.

[Taco John]

I'm a conservative in my political philosophy. But every four years, I get reminded why I cannot vote with Republicans. I just can't associate myself with such ugly and pointed dishonesty. I'll probably vote for Barr or Chuck Baldwin this time around. McCain and his imps aren't giving me any reason to vote for McCain - they just tell me why I shouldn't vote for Obama. Well I'm already not voting for Obama, so what's the point? Get him as dirty as you want. Tell all the lies in the world about him. I'm already convinced that he's not my guy.

There is a substantial amount of people in my position who McCain needs in order to win, but since his side is focused on lying about Obama, they're going to lose these votes.

[Pseudofool]

I'm a conservative in my political philosophy. But every four years, I get reminded why I cannot vote with Republicans. I just can't associate myself with such ugly and pointed dishonesty. I'll probably vote for Barr or Chuck Baldwin this time around. McCain and his imps aren't giving me any reason to vote for McCain - they just tell me why I shouldn't vote for Obama. Well I'm already not voting for Obama, so what's the point? Get him as dirty as you want. Tell all the lies in the world about him. I'm already convinced that he's not my guy.

There is a substantial amount of people in my position who McCain needs in order to win, but since his side is focused on lying about Obama, they're going to lose these votes.Good for you. While I'm happy the Republican brand is in the dirt, it'd be nice if there was a party that really did represent the honest debate between conservatives and liberals. The conservatives need to remake the Republican party or promote a new party in its place. It's going to be a long haul either way.

[frerottenextelway]

I'm a conservative in my political philosophy. But every four years, I get reminded why I cannot vote with Republicans. I just can't associate myself with such ugly and pointed dishonesty. I'll probably vote for Barr or Chuck Baldwin this time around. McCain and his imps aren't giving me any reason to vote for McCain - they just tell me why I shouldn't vote for Obama. Well I'm already not voting for Obama, so what's the point? Get him as dirty as you want. Tell all the lies in the world about him. I'm already convinced that he's not my guy.

There is a substantial amount of people in my position who McCain needs in order to win, but since his side is focused on lying about Obama, they're going to lose these votes.

The McCain of 2000 would be embarassed by the McCain of 2008.

Barr is running on the Libertarian Party ticket despite having almost nothing in common with the Libertarian Party (which I think is what you are ideologically). You might want to consider Cynthia McKinney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_McKinney), who I think is closer to you on most positions iirc.

Anyway, as long as it isn't McCain!!!! :D

[Rigs11]

Obama campaign response to Senator McCain’s latest attack ad:

“John McCain is an honorable man who is running an increasingly dishonorable campaign. Senator McCain knows full well that Senator Obama strongly supports and honors our troops, which is what makes this attack so disingenuous. Senator Obama was honored to meet with our men and women in uniform in Iraq and Afghanistan this week and has visited wounded soldiers at Walter Reed numerous times. This politicization of our soldiers is exactly what Senator Obama sought to avoid, and it’s not worthy of Senator McCain or the ‘civil’ campaign he claimed he would run,” said Obama campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor.

FLASHBACK – Senator McCain in 2007: “How can we possibly find honor in using the fate of our servicemen to score political advantage in Washington? There is no pride to be had in such efforts. We are at war, a hard and challenging war, and we do no service for the best of us-those who fight and risk all on our behalf-by playing politics with their service.” [Congressional Record, 5/24/07]

[frerottenextelway]

Obama campaign response to Senator McCain’s latest attack ad:

“John McCain is an honorable man who is running an increasingly dishonorable campaign. Senator McCain knows full well that Senator Obama strongly supports and honors our troops, which is what makes this attack so disingenuous. Senator Obama was honored to meet with our men and women in uniform in Iraq and Afghanistan this week and has visited wounded soldiers at Walter Reed numerous times. This politicization of our soldiers is exactly what Senator Obama sought to avoid, and it’s not worthy of Senator McCain or the ‘civil’ campaign he claimed he would run,” said Obama campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor.

FLASHBACK – Senator McCain in 2007: “How can we possibly find honor in using the fate of our servicemen to score political advantage in Washington? There is no pride to be had in such efforts. We are at war, a hard and challenging war, and we do no service for the best of us-those who fight and risk all on our behalf-by playing politics with their service.” [Congressional Record, 5/24/07]

Sweet. I love the new age media era. Me and fellow peeps at the Daily Kos have been trying to get that 2007 quote out everywhere in the past few hours, and it's cool to see it make it's way into non-political message boards. McCain's campaign is so pre-internet, when you just say what-the-****-ever to whoever without any consequences.

[Taco John]

The McCain of 2000 would be embarassed by the McCain of 2008.

Barr is running on the Libertarian Party ticket despite having almost nothing in common with the Libertarian Party (which I think is what you are ideologically). You might want to consider Cynthia McKinney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_McKinney), who I think is closer to you on most positions iirc.

Anyway, as long as it isn't McCain!!!! :D


Barr has changed a lot of his positions in the last 10 years.

...and I would never vote for Cynthia McKinney. She is nowhere near me on her positions.

[That One Guy]

You think the guy who gave an interview from the "Sausage Haus" restaurant beat the guy who gave a speech from the Victory Monument in Berlin? Really?

Basically in the last week and a half McCain's entire campaign strategy has blown up in his face. He's been mocking Obama for not going abroad, not seeing the situation in Iraq first-hand. "You know, I'm sure Obama means well and all, but if he actually visited Iraq and saw the situation with his own eyes, he'd totally agree that I'm right and we should stay there until the situation is secure and the Iraqi government asks us to leave."

And when Obama actually does go abroad, what happens? The Iraqi Prime Minister comes out and says "Yeah, actually Obama's plan sounds good to me." Obama gets photographed looking all informed and presidential riding with Petraeus in a helicopter overflying the conflict areas in Iraq. McCain rides around in a golf cart with Bush, Sr. Obama gives a speech at the Temple of Hurcules in Jordan. McCain goes on TV interviews to explain how even though he supports Maliki's timetable and Maliki supports Obama's timetable, he still thinks Obama's plan is totally terrible. Obama get warm receptions in Berlin, Paris, London. McCain gives a radio address whining about how he's not getting any attention anymore.

This whole Maliki thing is a huge blow for McCain. Foreign policy was supposed to be his area of strength, the issue where his years of experience in the Senate and his many visits to Iraq were supposed to make him far more appealing to voters than the "inexperienced" and "naive" Obama. And now the prime minister of Iraq, who pretty obviously knows more about Iraq than Obama and McCain put together, has basically come out and said "Obama's right."

That's the end of McCain's advantage on Iraq. The best McCain can do on the Iraq issue now is try to blur the line between himself and Obama, play for a draw, and hope everyone forgets what he was saying before two weeks ago. And hey, considering what a short memory the media has, it's probably his best move at this point.

But if McCain does that, he gives up the only issue where he had a real advantage. What the hell else is he going to run on? The economy? Obama wins. Immigration? Obama wins. The budget? Obama wins. Social issues? Obama wins.

Once Iraq is gone, McCain has nothing left to run on. And Iraq just blew up in his face.

I really have no opinion on all this, I was just commenting on the guy who appeared to be screaming foul because Obama kept getting trapped.

It appears that Obama's world tour has hit the spot with his supporters though. Does it really contribute much that he went to those places and gave a speech? Does going to Germany and giving a speech REALLY make you any more valid than doing it at the Sausage House or whatever? It's not like Germany is going to refuse to let him speak...

[peacepipe]

McCain & his supporters are trying to have their cake & eat it too. I don't remember anyone saying s*** about McCain speaking on foriegn soil.

[Drek]

I really have no opinion on all this, I was just commenting on the guy who appeared to be screaming foul because Obama kept getting trapped.

It appears that Obama's world tour has hit the spot with his supporters though. Does it really contribute much that he went to those places and gave a speech? Does going to Germany and giving a speech REALLY make you any more valid than doing it at the Sausage House or whatever? It's not like Germany is going to refuse to let him speak...

It gives all of us a view as to what kind of foreign policy he'd conduct. We all got to see that Obama carries a wide array of benefits in our foreign relations if he is the next president. He clearly is capable of dealing with world leaders, probably at least as much as John McCain, and as an added bonus he'd net our country a significant PR boost globally, which definitely wouldn't hurt at this point.

Also, don't miss out on the fact that he went to Iraq and after just a few days there he had Maliki singing the praises of his 16 month withdrawal plan. Bush followed shortly with talk of a "time horizon" and now even McCain is saying he agrees with Maliki's 16 month time window, which is actually Obama's 16 month time line.

He took McCain's talk of the war and how Obama hadn't been to Iraq in so long, making uneducated statements about time lines, etc. and turned it on its ear. Not only did he go there but he got pretty much unilateral agreement with his time line, which Bush and McCain have since followed step with.

The RNC's attempts to "trap" him are weak and nothing more than attempts to generate negative ad material. Obama doesn't avoid them because they are easily countered, but its obvious that the RNC had ulterior motives with both cases. Their attempt to spin the trip as a whole has largely blew up in their face, and I'm sure trying to do so with the troop visit will have similar results.

What happened to all the political experts and advisers the RNC had running Bush's campaign anyways? Bob Dole ran a better campaign than this one. McCain SHOULD WIN. Evangelicals are looking for someone to vote for, white males are too. But McCain just keeps alienating them further and further. The two biggest political bases that carried Bush to his second term and he's driven them off in record time. Its a seriously screwed up campaign that is entirely beholden to the notion of "don't vote for that guy"! Wonder how long until the "he's a Moozleem, gonna have gay butt sex with OSAMA!" ads start running.

[baja]

Let me tell you why this thread is a waste of bandwidth.

If we have have a fair election in November Obama will win in a land slide

If Diebolt controls the outcome than McCain will win in a very close "election"

At least if Obama wins we will know we the people still elect our representatives.

[Rohirrim]

When Obama goes somewhere in a military zone the military bars the press from attending. When McNasty went to Iraq, he not only had a brigade protecting him and full armor for him and his staff, he also had the entire press corps (including anchormen of all the majors) hanging on his every word and movement.

Weird, huh?

[Spider]

When Obama goes somewhere in a military zone the military bars the press from attending. When McNasty went to Iraq, he not only had a brigade protecting him and full armor for him and his staff, he also had the entire press corps (including anchormen of all the majors) hanging on his every word and movement.

Weird, huh?

Bu , bu , but the liberal media , Texican Bob , Bob , Cah , DBrueU told us all about it :rofl:

[That One Guy]

Also, don't miss out on the fact that he went to Iraq and after just a few days there he had Maliki singing the praises of his 16 month withdrawal plan. Bush followed shortly with talk of a "time horizon" and now even McCain is saying he agrees with Maliki's 16 month time window, which is actually Obama's 16 month time line.


BZZZZZT! Wrong! Nice try though, better luck next time. Keep refitting timelines and events that didn't happen to fit your agenda though, it sounds good.

And when Maliki says 16 months, it's just because that's the shorter time table possible. The Iraqi Government knows they can't tell the Americans to get the hell out and cause chaos but if the subtle way they can suggest it is to agree with the shortest possibility, that's what they're going to do. Even the Iraqi Government wants us out, there's grumblings about that all the time, it's just that they're walking on egg shells while they try to deliver the news. When Obama says 16 months, he means 16 months. When Maliki says 16 months, he means ASAP. When Mccain says 16 months, he means if that was reasonable. When any of them say they agree, it's all politics and positioning.

[OrangeDoofus]

And when Maliki says 16 months, it's just because that's the shorter time table possible. The Iraqi Government knows they can't tell the Americans to get the hell out and cause chaos but if the subtle way they can suggest it is to agree with the shortest possibility, that's what they're going to do. Even the Iraqi Government wants us out, there's grumblings about that all the time, it's just that they're walking on egg shells while they try to deliver the news.
You know, what's funny is that two weeks ago McCain was saying "Well of course if the Iraqi government asked us to leave, we would." And now that the Iraqi government actually has asked us to leave, suddenly we're getting all this "Oh they don't really mean that" and "They're just saying it for political reasons."

When Obama says 16 months, he means 16 months. When Maliki says 16 months, he means ASAP. When Mccain says 16 months, he means if that was reasonable. When any of them say they agree, it's all politics and positioning.
And this is really the best the McCain camp can do on this issue now. Throw a lot of confusing statements like "Just because Maliki agrees with Obama and McCain agrees with Maliki doesn't mean McCain agrees with Obama" to just confuse the whole issue.

The problem is that once Iraq goes away, McCain has nothing left to run on. I just saw one of their spokesmen on CNN saying "Well sure, Obama's been to visit leaders in Iraq and Afghanistan and Israel and Europe, but he hasn't met the leaders of Canada and Colombia like John McCain has." Is that really the best thing they have left?

[That One Guy]

You know, what's funny is that two weeks ago McCain was saying "Well of course if the Iraqi government asked us to leave, we would." And now that the Iraqi government actually has asked us to leave, suddenly we're getting all this "Oh they don't really mean that" and "They're just saying it for political reasons."


And this is really the best the McCain camp can do on this issue now. Throw a lot of confusing statements like "Just because Maliki agrees with Obama and McCain agrees with Maliki doesn't mean McCain agrees with Obama" to just confuse the whole issue.

The problem is that once Iraq goes away, McCain has nothing left to run on. I just saw one of their spokesmen on CNN saying "Well sure, Obama's been to visit leaders in Iraq and Afghanistan and Israel and Europe, but he hasn't met the leaders of Canada and Colombia like John McCain has." Is that really the best thing they have left?

Folks just want to believe Mccain's talk about 16 months because they can equate it back to meaning he agrees with Obama. Anyone can look at this and tell Mccain has no desire nor intention to do anything in 16 months. He's just smart enough to not disagree with the prime minister of Iraq on what Iraq needs.

[OrangeDoofus]

Folks just want to believe Mccain's talk about 16 months because they can equate it back to meaning he agrees with Obama. Anyone can look at this and tell Mccain has no desire nor intention to do anything in 16 months. He's just smart enough to not disagree with the prime minister of Iraq on what Iraq needs.
So people who realize this will think that McCain wants to stay longer, but for political reasons he's flip-flopping and taking the same position as the front-runner.

How does that help him, exactly?

[That One Guy]

So people who realize this will think that McCain wants to stay longer, but for political reasons he's flip-flopping and taking the same position as the front-runner.

How does that help him, exactly?

This election isn't about Mccain. It's Obama or the alternative. Mccain has to avoid drowning and see if enough people don't want Obama. Mccain, through what Bush has done the last few years and his close ties, has basically blown any chance of outright winning the election himself. He needs Obama to lose it to have any chance.

[Pseudofool]

Back on topic: Jack Reed and Chuck Hagel explain why precisely Obama didn't go to visit injured troops on Face the Nation: http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/ftn/main3460.shtml

Both Senators call McCain's recent ad inappropriate and say that Obama did the right thing.

[That One Guy]

Perception is everything though. If Mccain can make people perceive it one way, that's how it is. Obama may have made the right choice in the end, but he took a path there that's going to leave him succeptable to attacks.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Perception is everything though. If Mccain can make people perceive it one way, that's how it is.

Translation: "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become truth."

SOP for the GOP.

[Rohirrim]

Back on topic: Jack Reed and Chuck Hagel explain why precisely Obama didn't go to visit injured troops on Face the Nation: http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/ftn/main3460.shtml

Both Senators call McCain's recent ad inappropriate and say that Obama did the right thing.

Many Americans don't know that McCain is considered by many in Congress to be the meanest, nastiest, worst tempered, rottenest bastard on Capitol Hill. This is only the beginning.

[That One Guy]

Translation: "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become truth."

SOP for the GOP.

If people believe it, it is truth to them.

A fact of life.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If people believe it, it is truth to them.

A fact of life.

And people like you have no problem with this sort of deception as long as it's politically expedient.