Mike Shanahan on Fox31....He's been blind sided by Eminent Domain

[Meck77]

Unfortunately Mike I welcome you to my world. Watch this crap. His group faces losing up to $30,000,000. The timing of eminent domain is never good but I can't imagine how pissed he is heading into training camp right now.

This situation is similar to mine but on a much larger scale. They bought the site and even offered to sell it to RTD within a few weeks. RTD (Regional Transportation District) said they didn't want the site so Mike and his group began to market the property. They had buyers which would have yielded $50M dollars and now they are getting hosed.

Let me tell you first hand being blindsided by the government really throws you off your game. Many people are getting letters in the mail right now that they are losing their homes and businesses that had no idea it was coming like we did. That's how RTD does business.



http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=85EA2885C25941299B19952D8F0034FB ?contentId=7041629&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

[Hotrod]

Its time to boycott RTD :believeit

[worm]

It is a travesty that having a celebrity at risk increases the impact and media attention of this issue.

Is $30M for Shanny's investment group a bigger hit than somebody that is losing his single, smaller dollar value asset?

We need media reform!!!!!!!!

For example...When you have everybody in this country aware of what Paris Hilton is up to...but have no idea of who the last congressional medal of honor winner was....something is drastically wrong with what and how we report on 'news'.

[ludo21]

I have no idea how RTD works.

They take away your property without giving you payment for it or what?

[Beantown Bronco]

They're just trying to ensure that Shanny is really mad by the time week one (and the Faiders) line up across from him.

[no-pseudo-fan]

Eminent domain is a crock of $#%, it is just another way the government can screw people in the name of "public good". I can not stand the system, and people go along with it until it impacts them. If I owned a home in that community I wouldn't want a bus depot there either. Traffic and noise is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Meck77]

I
Is $30M for Shanny's investment group a bigger hit than somebody that is losing his single, smaller dollar value asset?
.

NO

I've met plenty of land owners in our boat. Some of the takes seem to be justified in that they are in the path of the train. I still don't agree with using eminent domain and ripping people off but ED is a necessary tool of government to get large project done. However in some cases RTD has offered less than the tax accessed value on the properties!

In some cases people are being forced to sell their homes for less than what they owe. That means they are going to end up homeless and in debt. RTD says they offer fair market value. My ass.

Maybe Mike's celebrity status will help shed some light on all the illegal activity going on.

I fully expect some people within the RTD organization to end up in jail. I really do. There is more to all this eminent domain abuse that I can share right now as I'm heading into court myself pretty soon.

No-psesdo: You are correct. Most people don't care unless it's their property or someone they know. In this case we all know Mike.

Bottom line is this is about all of our property rights in this country and they are deteriorating very quickly. The kicker now is the government can take your home and put whatever they want it. Basically they can wipe out anything for profit.

[55CrushEm]

But I'm sure LABF and Sluggo can give us a whole list of reasons why the government doing this is a GOOD thing.......::)

[bowtown]

They're just trying to ensure that Shanny is really mad by the time week one (and the Faiders) line up across from him.

They've already changed RTD to stand for Regional Trasportaion al Davis.

[ak1971]

It is a travesty that having a celebrity at risk increases the impact and media attention of this issue.

Is $30M for Shanny's investment group a bigger hit than somebody that is losing his single, smaller dollar value asset?

We need media reform!!!!!!!!

For example...When you have everybody in this country aware of what Paris Hilton is up to...but have no idea of who the last congressional medal of honor winner was....something is drastically wrong with what and how we report on 'news'.

I would have to say that this $30MM hit would be a less of a hit than a small homeowner. I sure they can absorb it a bit better. I cant watch this clip at work, but my question is when you say the property would have yielded $50MM, is this the $30MM loss? (i.e. are they saying that the $30MM loss is the potential profit if they sell the property at such a price?)

[Bronco Jamus]

I have no idea how RTD works.

They take away your property without giving you payment for it or what?

The government under the constitution can take land and give you fair market value. The problem is they are not giving market value for it, and they are turning over the land to commecial use and selling it at market value. It's a crock and we can thank the Supreme Court for that.

[worm]

Maybe Mike's celebrity status will help shed some light on all the illegal activity going on.

My point exactly. I think it WILL help.

I also think it shouldn't have to. The issue should NOT suddenly become important because the impact happens to a celebrity.

[ludo21]

gotcha.

So the land we tailgated at a couple years ago is the property they are taking from you Meck?

[Bronco Jamus]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062300783.html

This details out the latest eminent domain ruling by the court.

[Meck77]

I would have to say that this $30MM hit would be a less of a hit than a small homeowner. I sure they can absorb it a bit better. I cant watch this clip at work, but my question is when you say the property would have yielded $50MM, is this the $30MM loss? (i.e. are they saying that the $30MM loss is the potential profit if they sell the property at such a price?)

They paid around $20M for the site. It was an industrial site. They marketed it as a Retail site and had letters of intent from Costco and other large corporations. The total sale of the site would have been around $50M.

RTD won't offer them less than what they paid but they certainly aren't going to pay "Fair Market Value" which is the highest and best use of the site or in this case $50M dollars.

There are crooks running RTD. It's as simple as that. Just keep watching the news folks. Some of you have followed my similar story over the last 7 months or so but this one is going to be a knock down drag out fight. I know this first hand.

[Bronco Jamus]

These are the justices that voted for this interpretation

Justice John Paul Stevens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Stevens) wrote the majority opinion; he was joined by Justices Anthony Kennedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Kennedy), David Souter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Souter), Ruth Bader Ginsburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg) and Stephen Breyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Breyer)

These are the ones that didn't

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Day_O%27Connor) wrote the principal dissent, joined by Chief Justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Justice_of_the_United_States) William Rehnquist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rehnquist), Justice Antonin Scalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia), and Justice Clarence Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Thomas)

[no-pseudo-fan]

It is a travesty that having a celebrity at risk increases the impact and media attention of this issue.

Is $30M for Shanny's investment group a bigger hit than somebody that is losing his single, smaller dollar value asset?

We need media reform!!!!!!!!

For example...When you have everybody in this country aware of what Paris Hilton is up to...but have no idea of who the last congressional medal of honor winner was....something is drastically wrong with what and how we report on 'news'.

News is there to sell a product, just like McDonalds and Coca Cola. If they the subject will get viewers or sell a paper, then they run with it. Ethics have been replaced with economics. As for the Medal of Honor, the person who received it deserves it, but no more than the thousands of people that have lost their lives in the service of this country. The Medal is a token, the real news is the little press these fallen heroes get.

[Meck77]

In fairness to the local press they've covered the old lady losing her home, the little Broncos fan losing his tailgate lot/Broncos Bar Development Plan and now the big Broncos fan in Mike Shanahan losing tens of millions of dollars.

[SureShot]

Its time to boycott RTD :believeit

How will you get around the big city without it Dortoh?:approve:

[bronco militia]

noooooooooooooooooo!

no more light rail insider info!?!?!

[NaptownChief]

Goodness...After getting scrubbed like this by the RTD, Mike might not be able to afford to keep his tanning bed.

[Hotrod]

How will you get around the big city without it Dortoh?:approve:

I'll break out my horse and buggy :)

[bowtown]

In fairness to the local press they've covered the old lady losing her home, the little Broncos fan losing his tailgate lot/Broncos Bar Development Plan and now the big Broncos fan in Mike Shanahan losing tens of millions of dollars.

Exactly, people here are acting like these things get no press. Hate to break it to you but there is more press coverage of little things like this than there ever has been in history. With the internet, blogs, 24 hour news channels etc... you can find press on almost anything occuring out there that you specifically are interested in. So then what's your complaint, that it's not on your national news? Well that's because most of the country doesn't care about a grandmother losing her house to the Denver government. So who is your gripe with? The major media who reports what people are interested in hearing or that more people aren't actually interested in it?

the "you" here is not directed at you Meck. I just quoted your post as a jumping off point.

[ak1971]

They paid around $20M for the site. It was an industrial site. They marketed it as a Retail site and had letters of intent from Costco and other large corporations. The total sale of the site would have been around $50M.

RTD won't offer them less than what they paid but they certainly aren't going to pay "Fair Market Value" which is the highest and best use of the site or in this case $50M dollars.

There are crooks running RTD. It's as simple as that. Just keep watching the news folks. Some of you have followed my similar story over the last 7 months or so but this one is going to be a knock down drag out fight. I know this first hand.

Im just playing devils advocate here, so bear with me Meck. Fair market value is what it is today. If RTD was to pay them $20MM, they have no realized loss. I realize that they had plans to develop this and it would have been worth $50MM, but not currently. Someone could dump toxic waste on it today, it become a supefund site, now what is it worth? I have numerous clients who have developments which they say are worth x dollar. based on assumptions that a future event is to take place, when in fact they are only worth what they paid or in most cases less due to market conditions. not arguing here in the ED debate, just the valuation

[Irish Stout]

Eminent domain has been a long used tool by the state and federal governments and often becomes a necessary tool when growth and congestion take over an area of the city. Eminent domain can often lead to beneficial things for the state and the public, like another lane in the highway, more public transportation, and the "sprucing up" of LoDo.

However, there has been a lot of controversy on the issue for well over a hundred years and as such there are pretty clear steps on what must occur for a state entity to step in and take one's property by eminent domain. The biggest issue I seem to be seeing from Meck is that RTD is not offering fair market value for the property. I assume that Meck has spoken with an attorney in the Denver area and I am sure that Shanny has too. The first thing any attorney who is worth his salt will tell you is that you need to get the land appraised for its actual value, an estimate of its value for the intended use (if the taking were not to occur), and determine what the fair market value of similar properties in the area are being sold for. If these numbers are above the amount being offerred by RTD in their taking, then you have strong grounds to sue for the difference in the fair value of the property.

Unfortunately, thats the only real position anyone can take with eminent domain. Sue the state for the fair value if you have evidence that the value they are offering is inadequate. Hopefully you can prevail in court and cover attorney fees and costs. Typically the idea of going in front of a jury with such a case doesn't please the government entity taking the property, so they may just pony up more dough. In this case, it looks like you have greedy people who think they can get away without doing whats right and whats fair.

[tsiguy96]

i think i read a story about a local guy who was about to lose his house to eminent domain, and sold his property square foot by square foot to individual people...

[Tombstone RJ]

My family has land and I'm well aware of ED because the city in which our land resides is growing.

If RTD gives Shanny's group $10m more than what they just bought the land for, then Shanny made a quick buck. Perhaps not as much as he could potentially earn, but still not bad for owning a piece of property for such a short time and turning it over so quickly.

It's gonna come down to how the land is zoned. If the land is zoned industrial, then that is what it's worth. If the land is re-zoned commercial, then that will increase it's worth, ALONG WITH IT'S TAXES, BINGO.

However, RTD is basing it's bid on "industrial" because that is probably how it is currently zoned.

If Shanny's group was smart, they'd try to get it rezoned before the sale, but I don't know how that can possibly be done now, with this RTD thing.

[Ratboy]

Wow. I don't pay much attention about ED, i wish i knew more.

That sounds totally ****ed up.

[24champ]

Hmmm another display of citizens getting s*** on by the government...

[nickademus]

The arguement that should be made is that the location negativly impacts the current residents and if ED is what RTD wants to use to persue this land show the public impact that Shannys group would persue vs. what a frickin maitnance depot would bring.

[Meck77]

Im just playing devils advocate here, so bear with me Meck. Fair market value is what it is today. If RTD was to pay them $20MM, they have no realized loss. I realize that they had plans to develop this and it would have been worth $50MM, but not currently. Someone could dump toxic waste on it today, it become a supefund site, now what is it worth? I have numerous clients who have developments which they say are worth x dollar. based on assumptions that a future event is to take place, when in fact they are only worth what they paid or in most cases less due to market conditions. not arguing here in the ED debate, just the valuation

Let me ask you this AK. If you withdrew $100 from an ATM and some punk tried to take that $100 from you would you allow them to do so or would you knock their ass out?

Now imagine losing $30,000,000. Even worse not gaining that money and watching criminals profit off of your investment. It's likely that RTD will redevelop shanny's site for themselves. You see RTD has big development plans and developers in the wings to capitalize on private property that other people own. They are using the light rail project as justification for taking land but there is solid evidence to suggest otherwise. In fact they aren't even hiding it anymore.

Or how about scenario. Your "True market value" of your home is 200k if you were to sell it on the open market. Your house burns down and the insurance company offers to pay you 150k. Suddenly you are homeless and can't rebuild the home you had. This is the case with several home owners on the corridor. RTD is simply not offering them enough to replace what they had in a sense stealing their property from them.

[orange 4 life]

keep fighting the good fight meck, and as always, please let us know if there's ANYTHING we can do to help.

[Atlas]

I'm in favor of Eminent Domain, as long as they don't want my land of course.

[SureShot]

I thought they had a pill for ED ???

[ak1971]

Let me ask you this AK. If you withdrew $100 from an ATM and some punk tried to take that $100 from you would you allow them to do so or would you knock their ass out?

Now imagine losing $30,000,000. Even worse not gaining that money and watching criminals profit off of your investment. It's likely that RTD will redevelop shanny's site for themselves. You see RTD has big development plans and developers in the wings to capitalize on private property that other people own. They are using the light rail project as justification for taking land but there is solid evidence to suggest otherwise. In fact they aren't even hiding it anymore.

Or how about scenario. Your "True market value" of your home is 200k if you were to sell it on the open market. Your house burns down and the insurance company offers to pay you 150k. Suddenly you are homeless and can't rebuild the home you had. This is the case with several home owners on the corridor. RTD is simply not offering them enough to replace what they had in a sense stealing their property from them.

I do understand what you are saying Meck, but 'true market value' is a very subjective term. What I am trying to get at, is if I bought a property today for $20MM and had plans etc to develop said property and I believe that the market value of that property developed is $50MM. If the govt takes that property in an ED case, the value paid is $20MM. I understand that they have/ are using ED in these cases to develop land on thier own, but what I am getting at is the valuation process. Alot of what is going on in the RE arena (as you are well aware) stems from the subjective use of 'fair market value'

[wolf754life]

i feel horribly for the rat..............terrible tragedy.....

[Tombstone RJ]

Meck, is Shanny's land zoned industrial or commercial? That is gonna determine it's value as of right now.

[broncocalijohn]

Meck, i heard on 850 KOA out here in Cali a week ago that they announced they will need more time and money because of under budgetting all the projects. Seems you mentioned that would happen months ago. Time for Meck to run for office. Shanny getting screwed might help the cause a little or it might think (for the casual citizen) that eminent Domain only happens to rich property owners. They also think Obama is God.

[Archie]

The City of New London case may one day go down like the Jim Crow decision of 150 years ago. It is one of the worst decisions the court has ever made and over time it will impact so many people. It is absolutely criminal that a government entity can take your land and then give/sell it to another private entity which can develop a for profit business on that land - and then to call that "public use" because the cities opinion (as determined by the elected officials) is that the new use is better for everyone then the old use.

It is criminal, it is wrong, and there needs to be a new case that helps to re-craft the use of ED to it's original and legitimate purpose.

[fdf]

I have no idea how RTD works.

They take away your property without giving you payment for it or what?

Well, they give you some money. But it's government money. The government decides how much you get. And government judges determine whether that's the right amount if you contest it. The rules were set by, ta da, the government, and not surprisingly, the government usually wins the "how much do we owe argument." And it's not usually very much.

For everyone who wants to vote to have the government run a bunch more stuff in your life, you should think about this one little instance. That's the way the whole system works. So the idea that the government should be in charge of my wife and son's health care is, frankly, terrifying. It's the same guys as the ones who set up the eminent domain system who want the power, just different committees.

[spdirty]

makes me feel even guiltier about my company's situation and future relationship with RTD.

[Meck77]

Well things are heating up in Denver. It appears Mike "made a large investment" and was sitting in the Mayor's office when the weasel in charge of RTD Cal Marsella walked in. What sucks for Mike is his investment group offered to sell the damn property to RTD right after they bought it. RTD said they didn't want it. Only then did Mike and his group begin to market the property. Once they had deals worked out that is when RTD stuck their head into the picture with the threat of eminent domain. I can't imagine how pissed off shanny is now. I didn't realize he was a major player in this. It appears he is. His group faces losing $30 Million on this deal and it sounds like a big chunk of that could be Shanny's. Dealing with these bastards is difficult enough. Can't imagine trying to run the Denver Broncos at the same time. I hope Shanny can get RTD off his back and quick.

Read this. http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_10133088

RTD bus-facility plan in peril
The group that owns the coveted site plans to sell it for a prohibitive price.
By Jeffrey Leib
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 08/08/2008 02:09:50 AM MDT

A real estate investment group that includes Denver Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan could sack RTD's effort to locate a new bus maintenance facility near the Mousetrap.

Ascendant Development paid $17.1 million this year when it purchased the 44-acre property at the southwest corner of the Interstate 25/Interstate 70 junction from the Denver Newspaper Agency.

The Regional Transportation District recently said it hoped to buy the property from Ascendant, but RTD said if a deal couldn't be worked out, it could take the land by eminent domain and pay "fair market value."

RTD has been battered by bad publicity over plans to use eminent domain for FasTracks rail lines, and the agency might not want to find itself in the position of taking land owned in part by Shanahan.

The property also could be too rich for RTD since Ascendant announced plans last week to sell the former Denver Post printing plant site to Brighton Corp., a developer, for $48.3 million.

Further complicating the deal for RTD, Ascendant president Graham Benes said Thursday that his company plans to raze the building as soon as possible.

RTD hoped to use the building for bus storage and maintenance. If it is demolished, the transit agency also would have to factor the cost of new construction into its plan.

RTD spokeswoman Pauletta Tonilas said the agency is looking once again at other locations in the Denver area for the bus operation.

Ascendant used all its clout to forestall RTD's acquisition of the property.

RTD general manager Cal Marsella told agency board members he recently was invited to a meeting in Mayor John Hickenlooper's office and found Ascendant partners there, including Shanahan.

Benes said Shanahan told RTD he does not invest in many projects, that he made a large investment and "to have it threatened with condemnation was not good."

Benes said investors also stressed that "we don't think it is the right place for bus maintenance" and "it would not be good for the neighborhood."

Last month RTD officials said they looked at 25 sites and identified the ex-Post property as the preferred location for housing the storage and repair operation for 300 buses. RTD said the site was ideal because it was near major roadways, and shuttle buses could be staged close to their area of operation — the 16th Street Mall.

RTD expects to build a commuter-rail station between 38th and 41st avenues, just east of the former Post site and nearby freight rail yards, that would serve FasTracks trains running to Arvada/Wheat Ridge and Boulder/Longmont from Union Station.

Brighton Corp. executive Sverre Jensen said some national firms are interested in locating at the former Post site, and its proximity to a future rail station will only enhance the property's value.

"There is fantastic potential there," he said.

Jeffrey Leib: 303-954-1645 or jleib@denverpost.com

[maher_tyler]

It is a travesty that having a celebrity at risk increases the impact and media attention of this issue.

Is $30M for Shanny's investment group a bigger hit than somebody that is losing his single, smaller dollar value asset?

We need media reform!!!!!!!!

For example...When you have everybody in this country aware of what Paris Hilton is up to...but have no idea of who the last congressional medal of honor winner was....something is drastically wrong with what and how we report on 'news'.

i totally agree...i can't stand watching the news anymore, always reporting some stupid ass BS that i could care less about..you always know exactly what the celebraties are doing yet have no clue how many troops in iraq died today defending the freedoms of this country...its F@CKIN SAD!!

[Meck77]

i totally agree...i can't stand watching the news anymore, always reporting some stupid ass BS that i could care less about..you always know exactly what the celebraties are doing yet have no clue how many troops in iraq died today defending the freedoms of this country...its F@CKIN SAD!!

Well I can certainly understand your point of view and there is no way this story is more important than what our servicemen and women are dealing with in Iraq. I don't want to get into a debate about Iraq on this thread but the basic reason we have armed forces is to protect the freedoms of Americans. Well the basic American freedom to own land is threatened in this country and it's not necessarily coming from foreign invaders. It's coming from local governments across this country. This time it's me and Mike. Next time it could be one of you guys.



Back on topic. The Fast Tracks project is daily news to people who live in the front range as it could impact our taxes to the tune of $8-$10 Billion dollars. That in and of itself makes it news worthy to every tax payer in the front range and we have a lot of front range posters on this site.

I happen to personally know people going homeless over this eminent domain racket and perhaps that RTD has targeted a high profile person in Colorado that maybe the lies and criminal activity will be exposed more quickly. I've been trying but I'm one of those "little guys" referred to earlier.

FDF: Your post was partially correct but you left out the part where the people running RTD (the government) personally profit off the land they take via eminent domain via "economic development" of that land.