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Spider
07-19-2008, 09:13 AM
By JOAN BARRON
Star-Tribune capital bureau
Sunday, July 6, 2008 2:06 AM MDT

CHEYENNE -- Repeal of an old law that prohibits sales below cost could reduce gasoline prices, two Natrona County legislators say.

Sen. Charles Scott and Rep. Tim Stubson, R-Casper, plan to try again to repeal the archaic law, which they say gasoline dealers are using to prevent competitors from discounting gasoline prices.

The law was adopted in the 1930s and is designed to fight deflation by keeping prices up, Scott said.

A lobbyist for the Wyoming Petroleum Marketers Association, however, said repeal of the law would hurt small businesses.

Scott said he and Stubson didn't think anybody was using the law, “because we know the attorney general was unwilling to enforce it.”

"But it turns out what happens in the petroleum area when someone discounts gas too vigorously, they get an attorney to write a letter threatening legal action,” he said in a telephone interview.

Scott became interested in repeal of the old law when a citizen complained last summer that about a quarter or one-third of Wal-Mart's generic prescription drugs aren't available at the $4 price because of this old state law.

A Wal-Mart representative said the company is too big to ignore a state law, Scott said.

Scott and Stubson were unaware of opposition to the repeal proposal last winter until a meeting of the Minerals, Business and Economic Development Committee.

"The Wyoming Petroleum Marketers Association showed up with a lobbyist out of Colorado and a telephone campaign and got the bill killed,” Scott said.

Scott didn't blame the committee, as he didn't foresee the opposition to the bill in the short budget session.

Having figured out the petroleum angle, he and Stubson want to try again.

"I thought this was a good time to talk to people about it to get support to get it repealed,” Scott said.

Although Wyoming gas prices are lower than the national average, they are not as low as they should be, he said.

"I think this law is the reason,” Scott said.

Mark Larson, a lobbyist for the Wyoming Petroleum Marketers Association, said that repealing the law has broad and dire implications for small businesses.

"We have a problem with predatory pricing sufficient that if you eliminate that bill, the message is you want to make it the state of Wal-Mart, instead of the state of Wyoming,” Larson said in a telephone interview.

Larson claims Wal-Mart has a nationwide plan to eliminate all state low-cost-selling laws.

He said he is not suggesting that Scott is involved in that plan.

When the law passed in the 1930s, he said, refineries all owned their own gas stations. They were not only producing the crude oil, but pushing it to their own stations and selling it for less than their competitors.

"That's no longer the case,” he said.

"Right now the petroleum marketers, the guys that are selling gas on the street, have the worst margins since 1974 with demand down and cars getting more miles per gallon,” Larson said.

The only people making money on gasoline today, he said, are the developers and the speculators in the commodities market.

When Colorado repealed its low-cost-selling law, there was no big reduction in gas prices, but there was a jump in the cost of food, he said.

Larson acknowledged that the local attorneys in Powell have used the state law to put pressure on out-of-state marketers who tried to come in and buy the market by selling below cost.

"While it hasn't been prosecuted, it definitely has been a leverage,” he said.

Contact Joan Barron at joan.barron@trib.com or by phone at 307-632-1244.

DenverBrit
07-19-2008, 09:56 AM
Spider, I have a question for you.

How and when did diesel become more expensive than premium gas?

Spider
07-19-2008, 10:02 AM
Spider, I have a question for you.

How and when did diesel become more expensive than premium gas?
Here recently , alot of additives got added to diesel ,to make it burn cleaner .... Diesel is one step above petroleum jelly ...... total rip off

DenverBrit
07-19-2008, 10:31 AM
While looking for some answers, I ran across this Slate article which indicates that Fed Tax is higher for diesels than gas. A higher tax for diesel makes no sense at all. Truckers are getting screwed.

http://www.slate.com/id/2187806/

When I looked at some UK info, by asking 'why is diesel more expensive than petrol' the reasons appear more diverse. Europe has been buying mostly diesel cars....which I didn't know......and now they are feeling ripped off having made the switch from gas.

Spider
07-19-2008, 11:00 AM
While looking for some answers, I ran across this Slate article which indicates that Fed Tax is higher for diesels than gas. A higher tax for diesel makes no sense at all. Truckers are getting screwed.

http://www.slate.com/id/2187806/ thats misleading ,That also includes IFTA ......but here is the deal , diesel is taxed more cause we do more damage to the roads ..... The states need specially trained law enforcement officials to deal with us , scales , etc .......But Lowsulpher and additives are the main reason ..... we are taxed 50 cents per gallon ... that isnt to bad ,but even with additives and tax , we shouldnt be paying over a 1.59 per gallon

cutthemdown
07-19-2008, 12:17 PM
I'd still rather have diesel in my boat. They just get way better mileage from what I hear. Also they don't blow up as easy because I read the fumes aren't as bad?

Dudeskey
07-19-2008, 12:17 PM
Spider, I have a question for you.

How and when did diesel become more expensive than premium gas?

I can trace it back to when Katrina hit the gulf coast... I got a message on my Qualcomm addressed to all trucks on the fleet saying to "top off at a Schneider terminal if possible" as they were expecting a significant increase in diesel costs due to the oil rigs possibly getting damaged in the gulf. It wasn't long after that (maybe a week) I saw diesel go up past unleaded for the first time...™

Dudeskey
07-19-2008, 12:23 PM
I'd still rather have diesel in my boat. They just get way better mileage from what I hear. Also they don't blow up as easy because I read the fumes aren't as bad?

As long as you don't fill up too high (past 95% capacity)... diesel has a higher expansion rate in heat than most other liquids... and you know what makes diesel combust... BOOM. So to be safe make sure it has a ventilating cap.

Spider
07-19-2008, 12:24 PM
I'd still rather have diesel in my boat. They just get way better mileage from what I hear. Also they don't blow up as easy because I read the fumes aren't as bad?

The down side to diesel is cold weather , they stop putting glow plugs in the big engines , but I think littler engines for pick ups and cars stil have them , if so they are a bitch when they go out

DenverBrit
07-19-2008, 12:36 PM
thats misleading ,That also includes IFTA ......but here is the deal , diesel is taxed more cause we do more damage to the roads ..... The states need specially trained law enforcement officials to deal with us , scales , etc .......But Lowsulpher and additives are the main reason ..... we are taxed 50 cents per gallon ... that isnt to bad ,but even with additives and tax , we shouldnt be paying over a 1.59 per gallon

Well, I hope truckers get some relief soon.
It seems logical to lower diesel prices to keep the cost of transportation from adding to inflation.
But maybe that's an over simplification.

Spider
07-19-2008, 12:40 PM
Well, I hope truckers get some relief soon.
It seems logical to lower diesel prices to keep the cost of transportation from adding to inflation.
But maybe that's an over simplification.

;D it is ......we got to do everything the hard complected way

DenverBrit
07-19-2008, 12:42 PM
I'd still rather have diesel in my boat. They just get way better mileage from what I hear. Also they don't blow up as easy because I read the fumes aren't as bad?

Diesel was always the safe way to go for boating.........inboard gas engines would never be my first choice.
The improper exhausting of fumes from engine compartments can be cause explosions.....and gas boats at the pump are a hazard too.
I've seen two boats go up in flames at refueling docks.
Never seen a diesel boat on fire........and there is less maintenance. :thumbsup:

cutthemdown
07-19-2008, 02:42 PM
Diesel was always the safe way to go for boating.........inboard gas engines would never be my first choice.
The improper exhausting of fumes from engine compartments can be cause explosions.....and gas boats at the pump are a hazard too.
I've seen two boats go up in flames at refueling docks.
Never seen a diesel boat on fire........and there is less maintenance. :thumbsup:

Which is why I have two exhaust fans. But also I am installing an automatic fire suppression system so I push one button, or flames reach a sensor the whole engine compartment gets filled with some sort of gas maybe Halon? that sucks all the O2 out.

You are right though fire is a killer on a boat or ship. It's usually not the explosion that sinks the boat, or the flare up, its the fire after.

So my goal will be all the bells and whistles for fire suppression.

The system i want is only like 800 bucks for my size boat so its worth it. You make that back in lower insurance.

DenverBrit
07-19-2008, 02:57 PM
Which is why I have two exhaust fans. But also I am installing an automatic fire suppression system so I push one button, or flames reach a sensor the whole engine compartment gets filled with some sort of gas maybe Halon? that sucks all the O2 out.

You are right though fire is a killer on a boat or ship. It's usually not the explosion that sinks the boat, or the flare up, its the fire after.

So my goal will be all the bells and whistles for fire suppression.

The system i want is only like 800 bucks for my size boat so its worth it. You make that back in lower insurance.

What's gas and diesel cost at the marinas nowadays?

Bronco_Beerslug
07-19-2008, 09:19 PM
What's gas and diesel cost at the marinas nowadays?$1 to $3 a gallon over the street.

DenverBrit
07-19-2008, 11:25 PM
$1 to $3 a gallon over the street.

Ouch!

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-22-2008, 07:53 AM
Democrats and Republicans queasy about a federal rescue of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are coalescing around the idea of letting the government slap limits on the multimillion-dollar pay packages of their executives. Gee, you mean fat cats might actually be held accountable for their behavior? What a novel idea! 7/22 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080722/ap_on_go_co/fannie_freddie_salaries;_ylt=AiOEeSkwqxsqCeESteho5 d2s0NUE)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-22-2008, 08:21 AM
• Wachovia reports $8.86 billion loss in 2Q and cuts 6,350 jobs (http://www.yahoo.com/s/921358)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-22-2008, 10:29 PM
• More than $1 trillion may be needed to solve U.S. housing crisis (http://www.yahoo.com/s/921752)

Bronco_Beerslug
07-22-2008, 10:31 PM
• More than $1 trillion may be needed to solve U.S. housing crisis (http://www.yahoo.com/s/921752)More than 3 trillion may be needed to pay for the Iraq invasion and occupation. Neither will break the country but if you had to pick one that was worse than the other...