Make or Break year for Shanny.

[24champ]

By Dan Pompei
NBCSports.com contributor
updated 2:53 p.m. MT, Sat., July. 12, 2008


http://nbcsportsmedia.msnbc.com/j/NBCSports/Sections/Personal/Jervay,%20John/NFL/Curran's%20hot%20seat/080701_Shanahan.widec.jpg

If there is one element of the Broncos that has defined them in the Mike Shanahan era, it has been their offensive line. The zone blocking unit almost always has excelled with athletic, sometimes undersized blockers who aren't timid about going low.

Whether or not the line can continue its tradition of excellence after an offseason makeover could determine if the Broncos can bounce back from a 7-9 season.

It is probable that the Broncos will have a completely different offensive line from the line they used for most of last season. First round draft pick Ryan Clady, nicknamed "Sweet Feet" by teammates, is penciled in at left tackle. Clady is succeeding retiring Matt Lepsis, who had been the Broncos left tackle since 2004 and their starting right tackle the previous six years.

At left guard, Ben Hamilton is expected to return after missing the 2007 season with post concussion syndrome. Chris Kuper, who played left guard last year, now is competing for the right tackle job with Erik Pears, who started there a year ago, and 2007 third round pick Ryan Harris.

The plan is for 37-year old center Tom Nalen to come back from a biceps injury that limited him to five games last season, but just in case the Broncos signed free agent Casey Wiegmann from the Chiefs and drafted Kory Lichtensteiger in the fourth round. Lichtensteiger was rated as the top available center in the draft on some boards.

The changes in the line should bring out the best in a versatile group of runners that includes Selvin Young, newly acquired Michael Pittman and fifth round draft pick Ryan Torain. You can't be sure who will be the bellcow in that group, but you can be sure the Broncos will run the ball pretty effectively, as always.

So it could be up to quarterback Jay Cutler to take the next step in his development, and the defense to rebound from an off year in which the team allowed more rushing yards than all but two teams.

In order to improve the run defense, the Broncos acquired defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson from the Jets and have a new linebacker lineup. Robertson, the fourth pick of the 2003 draft, is a significant talent. But he hasn't always played like it in part because he has serious knee issues and in part because he did not fit the Jets' defensive scheme very well.

New defensive coordinator Bob Slowik is moving D.J. Williams from middle linebacker to weakside linebacker, his natural position. Replacing Williams in the middle will be Niko Koutouvides, previously only a backup in Seattle. On the strong side, Champ Bailey's kid brother Boss Bailey was acquired as a free agent.

If things go wrong in Denver this year, there won't be many people for Mike Shanahan to blame. General manager Ted Sundquist was fired in the offseason. Defensive coordinator Jim Bates was shown the door. Offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger was allowed to take a job with the Titans.

That can only mean more credit or blame will go to the head coach who has been running this organization for 13 years.

Team owner Pat Bowlen may never see fit to fire Shanahan, but that doesn't mean Shanahan won't be under pressure from outside sources to prove he still has it. His critics point out he has yet to win anything without John Elway, but Shanahan consistently fields competitive, well prepared teams and he remains one of the premier offensive game planners in the game.

Overheard at camp
It's time for Brandon Marshall to grow up and start getting the most out of his considerable abilities. Just ask Cutler.

Cutler tore into the wide receiver after Marshall said he slipped and fell through a television set while wrestling with family members in the offseason. He cut his forearm badly, which prevented him from doing much significant work in the offseason. Marshall also has had run-ins with the law recently, including a driving under the influence charge and a domestic violence charge.

Marshall still had the sixth most receiving yards in the NFL last season in his first year as a starter—but he's capable of more, and Cutler knows it. It will be interesting to see how the chemistry between Cutler and Marshall develops after this latest episode.

Comings and goings
The decision to allow injury prone Javon Walker to leave and the retirement of Rod Smith means the Broncos will be more dependent on three new acquisitions at the wide receiver position, as well as Brandon Stokley. Between Keary Colbert, Darrell Jackson and second round pick Eddie Royal, someone will need to step up and catch a lot of passes.

Prediction
The Broncos probably will field a formidable offense as they usually do. Cutler continues to show growth, and the offensive system is proven. Whether or not they can improve the defense is questionable.

The Broncos will be competitive in most of their games because they will be well coached and well prepared. But they don't have the look of a team that can consistently knock off the big boys at the end of the game. The Broncos look more like a middle of the road team.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/25607510/

[Taco John]

There's been a lot more of these make or break stories this year than there were last year. Not quite as many the year before that, when Shanahan's fate was supposedly tied to Plummer's fate.

[Sassy]

Who's 'Shanny' ?

[24champ]

Who's 'Shanny' ?

Well he is a guy that coaches a professional football team in Denver, called the Broncos. Thankfully he doesn't spend his life dedicated to repwhore threads.Ha!

[bowtown]

Yawn.

[Cito Pelon]

ShanaBowlen sure have a challenge in front of them. They made their bed, let's see how well they sleep in it.

[Killericon]

Here's what I think. I think that you should hold onto a coach if other teams really want him. Would other teams really want Mike Shanahan? You bet your ass they would.

[watermock]

No mention of the AFCCG 3 seasons ago...and the fact it was determined that team wasn't good enough and was subequently blown up.

Weve gone thru the Sears catalogue og QB's, from Bubby to Griese, Jake to now, a talent that can bring us to the promised land again...our drafting has gotten markedly better in the past 3-4 years as well. F/A's remain hit or miss.

But people calling for Shanaha's head to ever to be placed on a pike before the Emperor are mistaken.

[ohiobronco2]

I think Wolfy might have an erection, simply from reading the title.

[bpc]

Ha. Shanny has the key to the city. I'm okay with rebuilding this place back up but it's going to take more time so I don't agree with the hotseat theory.

We have some players in place now which will grow and get better, Cutler, a younger offensive line with Clady leading the way, targets at WR, some good young DL prospects and the best CB in the game. With that said, we still need more. I think the offense will definitely improve this year with or without Marshall but the defense still has a lot of questions right up the middle. I think we are a year away from the playoffs but we'll be .500 again. If we can have another solid draft next year, maybe shore up the run defense, we can keep pushing forward and then who knows? Thankfully LT is starting to age which will bring SD somewhat back to the pack in the next couple years as he fades. Oakland is aimless and KC is probably the least talented team in the NFL right now.

.500 give or take a game next year and then competing for a division in two IF we draft good and keep the A-Holes off the roster. In 3 years, Cutler's 5th, we should be competing for the AFC and NFL championships if all goes right. John made his 1st super bowl in his 4th year. Peyton won his 1st ring in his 7th year so we're still doing alright.

[CoopDawg]

Shanahan will be the coach of the Denver Broncos as long as he wants. I just cant envision a scenario in which Pat Bowlen turns his back on the man who brought him to Lombardi trophies. Maybe if the team digresses horribly for another two consecutive seasons, but I just dont see that happening. Long live Shanny!

[Popps]

I love what the guy has done for us, but he definitely needs to show something this year. Another year of mediocre play, team chaos and fading production as the season goes on and I honestly think the tone with most fans is going to change.

Few people have spent the time I have around here defending Shanahan. But, that said... I'm ready to part ways with him if we can't bust into the playoffs this year. I honestly think he might consider stepping down, anyway.

Again, I love the guy... but sometimes things run their course. Hopefully, that's not the case.

We need a strong playoff appearance or a very solid season with obvious improvement as the season goes on.

[Taco John]

I'm not expecting playoffs this year. That's my hope, but I see a team that is still got some key pieces missing. I figure we're in year two of a three year rebuilding cycle.

[ZONA]

Hopefully we comeback this year. Making the playoffs is what you want, from there, if you get hot at the right time, just as the Giants showed, you can win it all. Nobody looked at the Giants at the begging of last season and said this was a Superbowl team. They went 10-6 and got in as a wild card team, and then they got hot. Sorta like what we did in 97. We just got into the playoffs and went on a steamroll from there. So nobody should give up hope this team could win a Superbowl this year. All it takes is making the playoffs, which we could do, and then anything is possible. We've done it before.

[watermock]

Unfortunatly, we aren't coming off a 13-3 season with immense talent like 1995. I'll never forget that Jacksonville game.

[Pat Bowlen]

ShanaBowlen sure have a challenge in front of them. They made their bed, let's see how well they sleep in it.
Depending on whether the maid fluffed our pillows, quite comfortably.

[Sassy]

Well he is a guy that coaches a professional football team in Denver, called the Broncos. Thankfully he doesn't spend his life dedicated to repwhore threads.Ha!

Nope. Last I heard the Coach's name was Shanahan.

...you're an ass...it' the off-season.

[tsiguy96]

i hope we sign an absolute baller at LB, either FA or the draft this coming year.

[wolf754life]

preach brother preach..............

accountability is catching up with ratfacer..........

theres a time for love and a time for letting it be baby!

its almost time! like a cat and a mouse. the rat is jumping ship sooner than later!

[jsco70]

I'm not expecting playoffs this year. That's my hope, but I see a team that is still got some key pieces missing. I figure we're in year two of a three year rebuilding cycle.

Agree 100%. Denver is rebuilding regardless if the organization or fans will admit it. In my opinion, it's quite an accomplishment because we didn't have to endure 3-13/4-12 seasons.

7-9 isn't too bad when rebuilding, but those high draft picks would have been nice. However, at least on paper, it looks to me like this year's draft class has a lot of potential. We shall see.

[ohiobronco2]

i hope we sign an absolute baller at LB, either FA or the draft this coming year.

I think there will be a couple pretty good LBs in the upcoming draft. I think both are on the level of P. Willis. Don't know if we will be in the postition to draft them however. Hopefully we reward DJ and he sticks around.

[NFLBRONCO]

Would you say Denvers biggest weaknesses are DT MLB S #2 WR OT G/C every down RB?

Should Shanny be on the hotseat heck yeah but, its Bowlen's decision when a switch is needed not mine so I'm cool with it.

[Spider]

this is what the 5 th or 6th Make or Break shanny year in a row now ?

[Drek]

I'll be happy with our team's improvement if our team shows more late game/late season fight, plays crisper football, and the young guys show the potentially I think they have.

I don't expect a 13-3 season, or 10-6 either necessarily. But I do expect more maturity and leadership on the team.

That said, if the maturity and leadership does develop and the younger guys click into their roles we could be really good. I'm looking forward to see how it all turns out.

[Inkana7]

I love what the guy has done for us, but he definitely needs to show something this year. Another year of mediocre play, team chaos and fading production as the season goes on and I honestly think the tone with most fans is going to change.

Few people have spent the time I have around here defending Shanahan. But, that said... I'm ready to part ways with him if we can't bust into the playoffs this year. I honestly think he might consider stepping down, anyway.

Again, I love the guy... but sometimes things run their course. Hopefully, that's not the case.

We need a strong playoff appearance or a very solid season with obvious improvement as the season goes on.

Playoffs or bust for you? Dude, check out the AFC. Jacksonville is a guaranteed wildcard berth, and I don't think we're good enough to knock off the Chargers for the division title yet. That leaves us battling with Cleveland/Pittsburgh, Tennessee and Houston for that last spot. Maybe someone else like Cincinnati or the Jets step up as well.

Those aren't good odds, even with a 10-6 season.

[BigPlayShay]

ShanaBowlen

Bowlahan has a better ring to it.

[JLesSPE]

I'm still trying to figure out who would replace Shanahan and actually be an upgrade. Sure he makes mistakes and bad calls, so does every other coach in the league.

[Popps]

Playoffs or bust for you? Dude, check out the AFC. Jacksonville is a guaranteed wildcard berth, and I don't think we're good enough to knock off the Chargers for the division title yet. That leaves us battling with Cleveland/Pittsburgh, Tennessee and Houston for that last spot. Maybe someone else like Cincinnati or the Jets step up as well.

Those aren't good odds, even with a 10-6 season.

Maybe not playoffs or bust. Like I said, I think there are non-playoff seasons we can have that work... but we'd have to look solid all year, improve on defense and my biggest criteria: we need to get better, not worse as the season goes on.

[BroncoBuff]

i hope we sign an absolute baller at LB, either FA or the draft this coming year.
Lemme guess ... you've been really really busy lately, and haven't been able to pay attention, right?

[BlaK-Argentina]

I'm ok with giving Shanahan this year and the next. After that, if the team doesn't improve, I say it's time for a change.
I'm excited for this season though, I think the Broncos will be a lot better than some people think.

[cousinal11]

I think we'll have a good season period.

[ColoradoDarin]

A couple of comments:
1) I think Shanahan did one of his best coaching jobs last year. Think about having your #1 WR sit out most of the year with injury. Then you had your #1 RB sit most of the year with injuries (the guy who was leading the league in rushing before he went down). You had your 2 best OL (C and LG) out for the season, and your LT who was returning from ACL, but was never back to previous form. Add to that a QB who lost 35 pounds and his strength because of undiagnosed diabetes.

And we still won 7 games. I guarantee you give that same situation to most teams and they would struggle to win 3 games and be negotiating with the #1 pick (well #2 given how bad Miami was last year).

2) Who are you going to get to replace him that is better? The only guy I would want that is a current coach right now is Tony Dungy, but I don't think he is coaching after he is done with Indy. Even then given the choice between Dungy and Shanahan, I'll take Shanny every day and twice on Sundays.

3) Our last few drafts have been quite a bit better (and I believe the Goodmans are responsible for that) so I want to see what this team is made of as the new guys learn the system.

I'm excited for the season, I think we're going to surprise a lot of people, we might not make the playoffs, but we are going to be competitive.

[Popps]

2) Who are you going to get to replace him that is better?


You have to go out and find someone. When we signed Shanahan, he had a terrible first-run at head coaching. We had no idea he'd end up the coach he did.

You don't just not make moves because you're not sure if there is someone better. You go out and FIND someone better.

We wanted to replace Plummer with a better QB, so we took Cutler in the draft. We had (have) no idea where he'll end up as far as his place among great QBs in the league. But, we didn't just throw up our hands and say... "well, there must be NO QBs better on earth!"

Again, I'm not advocating getting rid of him (yet) .... but he needs to show that he's got some sort of plan. Since the 05 playoff collapse, we really haven't seen one, particularly on defense.

Let's hope we see improvement this year.

[ColoradoDarin]

When we signed Shanahan, he had a terrible first-run at head coaching. We had no idea he'd end up the coach he did.

We didn't hire him based only off of his HC experience, he was a pretty well known quantity around Dove Valley.

[Kaylore]

I think if Shanahan doesn't put together at least a 9-7 season this year, he's on the hot seat. That said, I'm pretty confident we're looking at 11-5 this season, so I think he'll be fine.

[Popps]

When we signed Shanahan, he had a terrible first-run at head coaching. We had no idea he'd end up the coach he did.

We didn't hire him based only off of his HC experience, he was a pretty well known quantity around Dove Valley.

Obviously, but he was still an unknown commodity as a head coach.... as are many successful coaches. (Gruden, Dungy, Ried, Cower, etc.)

Point being, you have to go out and FIND a better guy for the job.

Sometimes it's not even about a "better" guy, either... it's just about a guy who brings in a fresh system, players and breathes life into an organization.

Again, Shanahan has been fantastic. Sometimes things run their course. Let's hope they haven't and we regain our place in the league.

[sisterhellfyre]

I think if Shanahan doesn't put together at least a 9-7 season this year, he's on the hot seat. That said, I'm pretty confident we're looking at 11-5 this season, so I think he'll be fine.

How many years in a row now have we read pre-season articles that said Shanahan has to prove that he deserves the "Mastermind" nickname? Every year there's something that some bored reporter turns into a column that Shanahan has to prove himself. One year it's the quarterbacks, then the running backs, or the linebackers... and they can always fall back on bitching about the defensive line. I'm personally bored to tears with the same old "hot seat" articles coming out every year between the draft & training camp.

I suppose it's more interesting for the reporters than writing "ho-hum, Mike Shanahan's job security is not in question as he tinkers with the lineup again in hopes of overcoming player injuries, play execution errors, and sheer human stupidity to reach the playoffs again this year."

Regards,
m.

[Kaylore]

How many years in a row now have we read pre-season articles that said Shanahan has to prove that he deserves the "Mastermind" nickname? Every year there's something that some bored reporter turns into a column that Shanahan has to prove himself. One year it's the quarterbacks, then the running backs, or the linebackers... and they can always fall back on b****ing about the defensive line. I'm personally bored to tears with the same old "hot seat" articles coming out every year between the draft & training camp.

I suppose it's more interesting for the reporters than writing "ho-hum, Mike Shanahan's job security is not in question as he tinkers with the lineup again in hopes of overcoming player injuries, play execution errors, and sheer human stupidity to reach the playoffs again this year."

Regards,
m.
I know this seems like some of the standard rehashed stories we get in late June and July but this one has a bit of truth to it. Bowlen isn't happy missing the playoffs two years in a row and our play got worse from one year to the next. If we have another ho-hum year, then I'm prepared to say that he's probably really on the hot seat. However I like the way the team is going and I like the youth and talent we've brought in. I'm more than covinced drafting Jay Cutler will the biggest thing to make Shanahan look like a genius since we took TD.

[lex]

I dont understand this whole notion that Shanahan is blaming others. The reality is that Shanahan has been getting a lot out of some ok but not great talent. Its also a reality that he relies on others to evaluate and acquire personnel. So if Shanahan, doesnt fire someone for not getting it done with personnel, its on him for not replacing that person...but if he replaces that person, then he is scapegoating. I love how these guys talk out of both sides of their mouth. Just because Shanahan has the final say on personnel decisions, it doesnt mean he's not reliant on others.

[DenverBrit]

I dont understand this whole notion that Shanahan is blaming others. The reality is that Shanahan has been getting a lot out of some ok but not great talent. Its also a reality that he relies on others to evaluate and acquire personnel. So if Shanahan, doesnt fire someone for not getting it done with personnel, its on him for not replacing that person...but if he replaces that person, then he is scapegoating. I love how these guys talk out of both sides of their mouth. Just because Shanahan has the final say on personnel decisions, it doesnt mean he's not reliant on others.

I agree.
My understanding is that the scouting dept and front office compile the FA and college lists and reduce them to manageable numbers to present to Shanahan.
I'm sure I read that he sees the draft recommendations a week or two before the draft. He delegates a lot more than people want to admit, having final say in the choices comes after much consultation with the FO and all involved.
But, he is still responsible for the team put on the field. Last year was a cluster f@ck, brought by bad FA choices, a DC who was a mess and key injuries.
I'm optimistic we'll see a big improvement this year.

[jsco70]

2) Who are you going to get to replace him that is better?


We had no idea he'd end up the coach he did.



I have to disagree with this comment. I believe it was obvious what kind of coach he would become. Davis basically hired him to get him out of Denver to cause hard feelings between Shanahan and Reeves. Al recognized his potential and that the Elway - Shanahan chemistry was special. It worked like a charm as the Shanahan and Reeves feud escalted. Afterward, Shanahan tore the league up during his stint at SF as offensive coordinator. Sure he had the best talent but he didn't waste it.

He's organized, innovative and leads with unquestioned confidence and determination. I understand many have lost faith and maybe a change of scenary would do everyone some good. But it's simple...Mike Shanahan is a HOF coach that comes around very seldom.

[kmonty]

The article had little to do with Shanahan on the hot seat, and actually seemed to support him, trying to calm the naysayers. One or two paragraphs talks about Sundquist/Bates/Heimerdinger leaving, and that's about it.

As far as outsider team previews go, this was one of the better ones for certain. The focus on the offensive line is what has me most excited about this season.

[BroncoBuff]

Shanahan is not on the hot seat now, nor wil he be if he goes 7-9 again this season. Not Bowlen's hot-seat, anyway.

[rovolution]

2) Who are you going to get to replace him that is better?


You have to go out and find someone. When we signed Shanahan, he had a terrible first-run at head coaching. We had no idea he'd end up the coach he did.


Shanahan was hired based on his exploits in San Francisco. His offense all three years he was there was the top offense in the league. And dont tell me Steve Young was already good when he got there. They wanted to run Young out of town before Shanny showed up and transformed him into a 2 time MVP.

i doubt his oakland years had anything to do with the hiring process. Everyone around the league knows Al Davis is the real Raiders HC.

Al has been known to call in plays to the phone on the sidelines, so i dont blame shanny for struggling there.

i dont why there all this "Shanny could be done in Denver, could be done in Denver" nonsense.

Dungy was a Championship game looser in Tampa Bay until he got to Indy (where he is still loosing in the playoffs after his SB win) and even Belicheat lost a SB w/ Tom freaking Brady for crying out loud.

I believe the Broncos will surprise a lot of people this season barring injuries.

[wolf754life]

i'm optimistic................LMAO

enjoy 6 wins fanboys

[DarkHorse30]

2) Who are you going to get to replace him that is better?


You have to go out and find someone. When we signed Shanahan, he had a terrible first-run at head coaching. We had no idea he'd end up the coach he did.

You don't just not make moves because you're not sure if there is someone better. You go out and FIND someone better.

We wanted to replace Plummer with a better QB, so we took Cutler in the draft. We had (have) no idea where he'll end up as far as his place among great QBs in the league. But, we didn't just throw up our hands and say... "well, there must be NO QBs better on earth!"

Again, I'm not advocating getting rid of him (yet) .... but he needs to show that he's got some sort of plan. Since the 05 playoff collapse, we really haven't seen one, particularly on defense.

Let's hope we see improvement this year.

....and the bottom line is that you fail to name ONE name that is better. But does that shut you up? Perish the thought.

[maher_tyler]

A couple of comments:
1) I think Shanahan did one of his best coaching jobs last year. Think about having your #1 WR sit out most of the year with injury. Then you had your #1 RB sit most of the year with injuries (the guy who was leading the league in rushing before he went down). You had your 2 best OL (C and LG) out for the season, and your LT who was returning from ACL, but was never back to previous form. Add to that a QB who lost 35 pounds and his strength because of undiagnosed diabetes.

And we still won 7 games. I guarantee you give that same situation to most teams and they would struggle to win 3 games and be negotiating with the #1 pick (well #2 given how bad Miami was last year).

2) Who are you going to get to replace him that is better? The only guy I would want that is a current coach right now is Tony Dungy, but I don't think he is coaching after he is done with Indy. Even then given the choice between Dungy and Shanahan, I'll take Shanny every day and twice on Sundays.

3) Our last few drafts have been quite a bit better (and I believe the Goodmans are responsible for that) so I want to see what this team is made of as the new guys learn the system.

I'm excited for the season, I think we're going to surprise a lot of people, we might not make the playoffs, but we are going to be competitive.

I agree with everything you said...we could have been easily 9-7 (packers game/bears game). We hung with the colts in the first half of that game, actually taking it to them pretty good if i remember. Look what Shannahan did with Plummer...i can only imagine what he can do with Cutler. Shanny is gonna look like a guniess in a couple of years when we return to glory...11-5 isn't completely out of the question this year...lets just hope we can have a healthy team for the most part. We up graded or addressed every issue that i can think of...royal for our return game, robertson at DT, i think our LB's are better than last year, drafted Clady, signed weigman, Nalen and hamilton are healthy...released henry and walker, picked up Djack and colbert...give it time guys...shannahan will look like a guniess in a couple of years...write that down!!

[bpc]

I know the schedule looks managable right now but things always change. Teams end up being better or worse than they were supposed to be. We have some young talent on our roster which should keep getting better and we're due to have less injuries than we've had in previous seasons. That being said, we still have too many holes, especially with our run defense.

8-8 sounds about right this year and if we do things right, (FA, our future draft picks) we should be ready to load up for a run at the AFC West in two seasons as we'll be ascending and San Diego should be coming back down to Earth.

[U4EA]

Shanny is gonna look like a guniess in a couple of years when we return to glory...

...shannahan will look like a guniess in a couple of years...write that down!!

Sorry, he'll look like a...what?

[Popps]

Shanahan was hired based on his exploits in San Francisco. His offense all three years he was there was the top offense in the league. And dont tell me Steve Young was already good when he got there. They wanted to run Young out of town before Shanny showed up and transformed him into a 2 time MVP..

Young would have been good with or without Shanahan, and they wanted to run him out of San Francisco even AFTER he won a SB. Some fans were converted, but many remained Montana fans. Young probably had the worst talent to home-fan appreciation ratio of any QB in history.

I lived there the entire time and followed it closely.

It's no secret that Shanahan was a good coaching prospect. The point is, he wasn't a sure thing... and the same goes for a lot of great coaches you can rattle off.

You don't just keep a guy who's not working because of something he did in the 90s, and assume there's NO human being on the earth that could work out better for the organization. It's not rational.

That said, I'll repeat that I'm a huge fan of the guy and I hope he turns it around his year. But, if he doesn't... things are going to get messy.

[Popps]

Sorry, he'll look like a...what?

You gotta love the internets.

http://lukehoney.typepad.com/the_greasy_spoon/images/2007/12/05/guinness.jpg

[maher_tyler]

Sorry, he'll look like a...what?

Was never good at spelling, thanks for pointing that out...but i can spell douche!!

[epicSocialism4tw]

There's been a lot more of these make or break stories this year than there were last year. Not quite as many the year before that, when Shanahan's fate was supposedly tied to Plummer's fate.

I truly think that Mike is here for as long as he wants to be.

These guys have to go somewhere for the stories though, and there isnt any drama at QB right now. What's more dramatic? Shanahan.

Sensationalism. Brain candy for the masses.

[ScottXray]

I truly think that Mike is here for as long as he wants to be.

These guys have to go somewhere for the stories though, and there isnt any drama at QB right now. What's more dramatic? Shanahan.

Sensationalism. Brain candy for the masses.

I think that another losing season and Shanny is on the hot seat.

Bowlen doesn't like spending millions for a 2nd class product.

The new direction this year in the limited FA acquisitions and general trend towards "good and smart players without personal problems and legal issues"
was probably not just a general decision by the Broncos front office. I think Bowlen pulled in the purse strings and said I'm tired of the crap wev'e been getting for MY money. Make better decisions!

So Sundquist is gone, as are some others (Bates and Heimerdinger). We brought in good personality type kids in the draft and FA. But, More than ever before, this is Shanahans team! He really has no cushion (other than a rash of freak injuries again) if the team isn't competitive. No playoffs, but a a 9-7 or 10-6 year and he's cool for another year although Bowlen won't like that. Playoffs , obviously he's ok. But another BAD year and sub 500 and he may just have a problem with the owner.

Personally, I think the team is going the right way and that barring any major injury to Cutler or other offensive key players we are going to outscore a lot of teams. The defense still has a way to go and is a questionmark. But this year should see our defense get BETTER as the year goes along. Another defensive collapse in the second half of the season and all bets are off.

I figure us at 10-6 this year +- 1 game either way. Playoffs maybe, but we may need 11-5 to get in. A little bad luck, a few missed kicks and someone is going to get a bad case of 20-20 hindsight.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I think that another losing season and Shanny is on the hot seat.

Bowlen doesn't like spending millions for a 2nd class product.

The new direction this year in the limited FA acquisitions and general trend towards "good and smart players without personal problems and legal issues"
was probably not just a general decision by the Broncos front office. I think Bowlen pulled in the purse strings and said I'm tired of the crap wev'e been getting for MY money. Make better decisions!

So Sundquist is gone, as are some others (Bates and Heimerdinger). We brought in good personality type kids in the draft and FA. But, More than ever before, this is Shanahans team! He really has no cushion (other than a rash of freak injuries again) if the team isn't competitive. No playoffs, but a a 9-7 or 10-6 year and he's cool for another year although Bowlen won't like that. Playoffs , obviously he's ok. But another BAD year and sub 500 and he may just have a problem with the owner.

Personally, I think the team is going the right way and that barring any major injury to Cutler or other offensive key players we are going to outscore a lot of teams. The defense still has a way to go and is a questionmark. But this year should see our defense get BETTER as the year goes along. Another defensive collapse in the second half of the season and all bets are off.

I figure us at 10-6 this year +- 1 game either way. Playoffs maybe, but we may need 11-5 to get in. A little bad luck, a few missed kicks and someone is going to get a bad case of 20-20 hindsight.


I understand your vantage here, but in broader prospective, I believe that Bowlen views Shanny as Denver's "Franchise Coach" (when people start using this term, remind 'em where it came from, okay? ;D Im a goober...I know)

Here's what I mean...franchises are defined by long periods of success or failure. Relatively speaking, under Shanahan Denver has been unusually successful. He has rarely had losing seasons and puts a competitive team on the field nearly every season. Even many of Shanny's average teams have overacheived to some degree.

Shanahan is Denver's Don Shula, Landry, Knoll, etc.

He has defined the franchise in a positive light for a long time. Im sure that Bowlen would like to see that success continue for another 10 seasons.

[ScottXray]

I understand your vantage here, but in broader prospective, I believe that Bowlen views Shanny as Denver's "Franchise Coach" (when people start using this term, remind 'em where it came from, okay? ;D Im a goober...I know)

Here's what I mean...franchises are defined by long periods of success or failure. Relatively speaking, under Shanahan Denver has been unusually successful. He has rarely had losing seasons and puts a competitive team on the field nearly every season. Even many of Shanny's average teams have overacheived to some degree.

Shanahan is Denver's Don Shula, Landry, Knoll, etc.

He has defined the franchise in a positive light for a long time. Im sure that Bowlen would like to see that success continue for another 10 seasons.


Agreed, but that polish is starting to show a little tarnish. Bowlen likes winning, the playoffs and a shot to get to the super bowl. A third year with no shot, because we don't make the playoffs, and Bowlen will start to think he might need to make a change. And one thing Bowlen IS, is a business man. Losing teams don't draw like winners, and Denver has more than the Broncos to spend money on now. I'm sure he feels great loyalty to Mike for the past accomplishments...but if they continue to be in the past, despite all the changes, the 'he can't win without Elway" sound bite may take a firmer grip on the owners mindset. Loyalty and franchise coaches give a bad taste when you keep losing.

I actually don't think that is going to happen this year. We may not make the playoffs, but as long as we get to 9-7 or better the heat is off. But a collapse or failure to compete, like last year, will land solely in Shanahans lap
this time. Whether there is a better coach may enter into it, but eventually even the best partnerships can break up, sometimes for trivial reasons. So much depends on Cutler doing well this year, another Shanahan choice. If Cutler breaks out we could have a great year. If , somehow, he regresses or plays sub par who can take over?

Anyway, the point is that Shanahan, barring another series of injuries derailing the Broncos, is going to have to shoulder the responsibility for any sub-par season now. He keeps saying he is responsible for the teams performance every year, and Bowlen eventually will listen, if it keeps going badly.

Conversely if we make the playoffs, or better Shanahan will get the credit. He might even get coach of the year for once if that happens. The next year there will be another thread like this.:sunshine:

[watermock]

Cutler could get an acl and BM could be suspended 4 games and Denver could go 6-10 and Shanny wouldnt get fired...he might resign tho.

[jonny1]

Some of you talk like Pat Bowlen sits up in an ivory tower somewhere and suddenly a lowly serf pops in and tells him, "The Broncos went 7-9 this year."

He is aware of what is going on at Dove Valley, and he can see that this team is being rebuilt and reshaped with a lot of young talent to be ready for a long haul.

He knows that there are monsters in the closet in New England, Indy, and San Diego, and that it's going to take time to build a team now that will get to that level, but all indications are that the team is headed in that direction.

Cutler is ALREADY a good QB, Marshall is a good WR, they are rebuilding the OL, and the RB situation is going to be good, and may be great if one of the young guys really blossoms.

I wouldn't be surprised if the draft next year is heavy in DL again.

Shanahan is not going anywhere for 3 or 4 years minimum.

[Meck77]

Isn't it something that we had a Superbowl or bust mentality with Jake/Shanny (one of the all time best QB/Coach winning % combinations) yet the expectations have dropped off for a 1st round QB heading into his third year?

Shanny needs to win a playoff game, Cutler needs to win a playoff game, and the Broncos fans need a playoff win.

Did anyone notice we weren't just getting beaten last year but we were getting embarrassed on the field. Admit it Broncos homers you laughed during the Detroit Lion game didn't you? Did you see SD ring up 40+ points while we struggled to get a few field goals?

I don't care how much Pat loves Shanny. Shanny should be on the hot seat as he's running a BILLION dollar business that is not performing well.

[Broncomutt]

The team has been broken for a couple years. I don't see how another subpar season is going to "break" Shanahan anymore than he already is.

As long as each year produces some fool willing to be Shanny's scapegoat (aka Def. Coordinator), Shanny doesn't have to worry about a thing.

Emperor for life.:thumbs:

[Beantown Bronco]

Technically, every year is a make or break year for every head coach. No coach is safe if he completely mailed it in for a season and was the main reason why the team went winless or close to it.

[Pat Bowlen]

Some of you talk like Pat Bowlen sits up in an ivory tower somewhere and suddenly a lowly serf pops in and tells him, "The Broncos went 7-9 this year."
Ivory? Are you kidding me? What do you think all that gold I bought was for?

[Pat Bowlen]

Also, there's no such thing as a 'lowly' serf. They all serve a purpose.

[Kaylore]

Also, there's no such thing as a 'lowly' serf. They all serve a purpose.

What benevolence your Magnificence shows us.:notworthy

[bowtown]

Technically, every year is a make or break year for every head coach. No coach is safe if he completely mailed it in for a season and was the main reason why the team went winless or close to it.

Right that immunity is saved for GMs like Millen and King Carl.

[Cito Pelon]

Shanahan hasn't done a stellar job for a long time, considering he's the total boss of all things Bronco. If he was just the OC, I'd say he's done a great job. Beyond that level, Shanahan has been nothing special since 1998.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I'm not expecting playoffs this year.

Three consecutive years with no playoffs?

You're loyalty is rapidly going blind.

[U4EA]

Was never good at spelling, thanks for pointing that out...but i can spell douche!!

Hey, look on the bright side, your spelling was no worse than your punctuation or your grammar. You may even have missed those little red lines under words that this v bulletin doohickey thinks are misspelled. Had you've seen them, you could have right-clicked and availed yourself of several suggested alternatives to the attempt you made.

And, sorry to have hurt your feelings!

[U4EA]

Three consecutive years with no playoffs?

You're loyalty is rapidly going blind.

How long ago was 1971?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

How long ago was 1971?

We made the playoffs in 2006. Try again, chump.

[rovolution]

Three consecutive years with no playoffs?

You're loyalty is rapidly going blind.

arent you on Year 19 of King Carls 4 year plan?

[rovolution]

We made the playoffs in 2006. Try again, chump.

and you came in through the back door after Us, Cinci, and Tennessee lost.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

and you came in through the back door after Us, Cinci, and Tennessee lost.

Sucks to be you, huh?

I feel for you guys. It's not fun going two years in a row without playoffs. I hope you don't have to experience three. That blows. I know, of course.

[24champ]

Bob when was the chiefs last playoff win?

[BroncoBuff]

You're loyalty is rapidly going blind.
You are loyalty is miss placed.

[BroncoBuff]

and you came in through the back door after Us, Cinci, and Tennessee lost.
That was one of the all-time backing into the playoffs. We lost that stupid finale the 49ers ... eck.

It seems odd to me that any chef fan would make head-on challenges with that underachiving team. Bob ... Crayola-red and cowardly-yellow is no way to go through life, son.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

That was one of the all-time backing into the playoffs. We lost that stupid finale the 49ers ... eck.

It seems odd to me that any chef fan would make head-on challenges with that underachiving team. Bob ... Crayola-red and cowardly-yellow is no way to go through life, son.

Look, I realize we suck.

But it would behoove all of you Shanny koolaid drinkers to realize that he kinda sucks, too. How many non-playoff seasons is enough? Three? Four?

A playoff win would be nice, too, of course. The bar should be set high for Shanahan.

[Popps]

Look, I realize we suck.

But it would behoove all of you Shanny koolaid drinkers to realize that he kinda sucks, too. How many non-playoff seasons is enough? Three? Four?

A playoff win would be nice, too, of course. The bar should be set high for Shanahan.

Hey jiggles... our last AFC Championship Game appearance was 2005.

When was yours?

[rovolution]

Hey jiggles... our last AFC Championship Game appearance was 2005.

When was yours?

ding ding ding oh thats right.

Theirs was a lose to the Colts where they picked off Peyton Manning 3 times and still lost the ballgame.

[Atlas]

What does "Make or Break year mean?" I mean if Denver goes 10-6 but doesn't make the playoff is that a bad year? Denver is a young team and going to get even younger in the next couple of years when Nalen, Hamilton and Lynch leave. I said last year that 2008 is the year we need to look at. I still think that , but I know Denver will be even better in 2009 and 2010.

This is the begining of a new era in Denver and I think we should all be excited about it. And for Christ sakes get off Shanny's ass!!!!

[Atlas]

A couple of comments:
1) I think Shanahan did one of his best coaching jobs last year. Think about having your #1 WR sit out most of the year with injury. Then you had your #1 RB sit most of the year with injuries (the guy who was leading the league in rushing before he went down). You had your 2 best OL (C and LG) out for the season, and your LT who was returning from ACL, but was never back to previous form. Add to that a QB who lost 35 pounds and his strength because of undiagnosed diabetes.

And we still won 7 games. I guarantee you give that same situation to most teams and they would struggle to win 3 games and be negotiating with the #1 pick (well #2 given how bad Miami was last year).

2) Who are you going to get to replace him that is better? The only guy I would want that is a current coach right now is Tony Dungy, but I don't think he is coaching after he is done with Indy. Even then given the choice between Dungy and Shanahan, I'll take Shanny every day and twice on Sundays.

3) Our last few drafts have been quite a bit better (and I believe the Goodmans are responsible for that) so I want to see what this team is made of as the new guys learn the system.

I'm excited for the season, I think we're going to surprise a lot of people, we might not make the playoffs, but we are going to be competitive.

Good points. I read in one of the preseason magazines that Denver had more games missed by starters than any team in the league or AFC or something. If Denver stays injury free then they are definatley a 12 win team.

[Popps]

ding ding ding oh thats right.

Theirs was a lose to the Colts where they picked off Peyton Manning 3 times and still lost the ballgame.

LOL

I wonder when their last big season playoff game was before that?

Oh, wait.. I remember.

ROFL!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Who cares what happened in 2005?

The Chiefs had a different head coach and the #1 offense.

The Broncos had a competent defense and a different quarterback.

[SureShot]

Spin! Fatass spin!

[bowtown]

Who cares what happened in 2005?

The Chiefs had a different head coach and the #1 offense.

The Broncos had a competent defense and a different quarterback.

Wait let me get this straight. So you had the #1 offense and a different/better coach, and Denver only had a "competent offense" and a different/worse quarterback, yet we still made it to the AFC championship and you made it nowhere?

Hilarious! Life must be so depressing for Chief fans.

[kmonty]

Who cares what happened in 2005?

The Chiefs had a different head coach and the #1 offense.

The Broncos had a competent defense and a different quarterback.

I cant believe you really look back at 2005, eyes sparkling, and refer to it as "the #1 offense" as if that was some sort of prize. Wow.

[Popps]

Isn't it funny how Tubby's tune changes when he gets stuffed?

Now we're talking about offensive rankings. Before it was playoff games.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Isn't it funny how all you do is deflect?

[Killericon]

Hypothetical:

Tom Nalen and Ben Hamilton cannot play, and retire by seasons' end. The O-Line struggles for consistency. Selvin is good, but not great. Cutler astounds, putting up 3500+ and 30/15 in a valiant effort(despite getting hit a lot), but no receiver goes over 1000 yards or 80 catches, due in large part to the delayed recovery and continued bull****ery of Brandon Marshall. Tony Scheffler enters the upper echelon of pass-catching tight ends with a continuation of his performance from last season. Marcus Thomas is mediocre, and Jarvis Moss is a bust, but Tim Crowder asserts himself. Boss is mediocre. Dre Bly gets injured early. Our Safety corps completely blows, except for the late-season rising play of Barrett. We have no set starter at MLB. DJ, Champ, Dumervil, and Robertson shine on defense. We finish the season 2nd in the division somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7, and firmly out of the playoffs.

Who here would support firing Mike Shanahan? I know I sure as hell would'nt.

The view point expressed by Bob, and a few others, that not making the playoffs for a third straight year is somehow definitive proof that Shanahan is not the right coach for our team is extremely narrow-minded and simplistic. As if it is some sort of litmus test. It's bloody annoying is what it is.

[ZachKC]

I cant believe you really look back at 2005, eyes sparkling, and refer to it as "the #1 offense" as if that was some sort of prize. Wow.
Not referring to it as a price just making a reference to how things have changed with something is empirical FWIW.

[Cito Pelon]

What does "Make or Break year mean?" I mean if Denver goes 10-6 but doesn't make the playoff is that a bad year? Denver is a young team and going to get even younger in the next couple of years when Nalen, Hamilton and Lynch leave. I said last year that 2008 is the year we need to look at. I still think that , but I know Denver will be even better in 2009 and 2010.

This is the begining of a new era in Denver and I think we should all be excited about it. And for Christ sakes get off Shanny's ass!!!!

I'll be happy to - when he actually does something worthwhile enough to get out of the doghouse. He was almost there in the 2005 season, but alas, 2006 & 2007 followed 2005. Maybe he's getting the team back up to speed, we'll see.

[wolf754life]

maybe not