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kmonty
07-10-2008, 11:49 AM
From Stefan Fatsis' just-released A Few Seconds of Panic:

I watch the [Seattle] game with Ted Sundquist and his staff, and it's clear to me they don't agree with the change. A few weeks earlier, Sundquist had told me he didn't feel Jake was the sole reason for the offense's poor play. On Cutler's first series, the Broncos run three plays and punt. "Same result," someone says. When Cutler fumbles a snap, Sundquist remarks, "He did that about three times in practice." Someone else replies, "I heard six." Then, as he is hit by a defensive lineman, Cutler wings the ball blindly into the air. It's intercepted and returned for a touchdown. Pens and binoculars fly in our box high above the field....

In the locker room afterward, Cutler tells Jake that the team would have won had he been playing.

-
Fatsis interviews Jake the next day, and Plummer is pretty candid about his feelings on the whole thing (he's beyond pissed off).

If you haven't gotten a copy yet, I highly recommend it. It's a great read in and of itself, but it's just got all these extra details Broncos fans will be appreciate. I'll be posting a full book review today on BroncoTalk and will also have a Q&A with the author a bit later.

SouthStndJunkie
07-10-2008, 11:54 AM
I think it was dumb (from the team's perspective) to allow a reporter that much access to write a book. These are the salient details that teams do not like getting out to the public.

That said....I will be picking up a copy in the near future.

Northman
07-10-2008, 11:55 AM
Guess Sundquist couldnt tell the difference between a 10 year vet making those mistakes and a rookie. No wonder he got canned.

broncofan2438
07-10-2008, 11:55 AM
I think it was dumb (from the team's perspective) to allow a reporter that much access to write a book. These are the salient details that teams do not like getting out to the public.

That said....I will be picking up a copy in the near future.

This is so true

TheReverend
07-10-2008, 11:58 AM
They would've won that game with Jake playing.

We would've gone to the playoffs with Jake playing.

...but we'd be in a significantly worse situation TODAY had Jake finished that year.

kmonty
07-10-2008, 12:01 PM
I think it was dumb (from the team's perspective) to allow a reporter that much access to write a book. These are the salient details that teams do not like getting out to the public.

That said....I will be picking up a copy in the near future.

It was an eye opener to be sure. I wrote a little about that in the review I'm working on too.

bronco militia
07-10-2008, 12:01 PM
They would've won that game with Jake playing.

We would've gone to the playoffs with Jake playing.

...but we'd be in a significantly worse situation TODAY had Jake finished that year.


who knows for sure....as great as the defense started that year, they were no match against good offense's.

Kaylore
07-10-2008, 12:04 PM
They would've won that game with Jake playing.

We would've gone to the playoffs with Jake playing.

...but we'd be in a significantly worse situation TODAY had Jake finished that year.

That's pretty much it. The Seattle game was Cutler's first and of course he looked like ass. I have no doubt they beat Seattle in that game if Jake plays. But so what? We wouldn't move forward as a franchise.

Two games later Jay's killing in Arizona, though. And the Charger game on the road was the first game where the safeties had to back out of the box that year because they actually were respecting passes over the middle of the field. Tatum freaking Bell racked up over 100 yards rushing in San Diego that year. He was the only back to do so and they played a healthy Sean Alexander, Larry Johnson, and several other elite backs that weren't able to make that happen.

Jay Cutler right now is a better QB than Jake ever was. Jake would have taken us to the playoffs where we would have been one and done like we are every year.

Taco John
07-10-2008, 12:08 PM
:angel:

enjolras
07-10-2008, 12:08 PM
I think it was dumb (from the team's perspective) to allow a reporter that much access to write a book. These are the salient details that teams do not like getting out to the public.

That said....I will be picking up a copy in the near future.

Bah, its football not international espionage.... These things lend color, life, and insight to our team. Is it really surprising that Sundquist wasn't 100% in love with every decision made? That's true of 100% of businesses everywhere.

kmonty
07-10-2008, 12:09 PM
Sundquist's opinion didn't bother me as much as him being open about it to other employees. How could it do anything but undermine Mike Shanahan?

Popps
07-10-2008, 12:14 PM
Shanahan just should have either done it earlier or waited until we were out of playoff contention. He showed no conviction and that's why the team reacted poorly.

That said, even if Plummer was playing well... we didn't have a real defense. It wouldn't have mattered. Same as most years.

Taco John
07-10-2008, 12:15 PM
Plummer was a good guy. Very likable.

He just wasn't a very good quarterback. True to his likable guy nature, he had his moments where he'd play outside his head and ability. That was fun to watch - at least at first.

But at the end of the day, he wasn't getting it done. No matter what Sundquist (or anyone else) thinks about the move to bench him at the time that it happened, the fact is that he wasn't getting it done. Maybe there *are* other fingers to point. But that doesn't change the fact that Plummer was a problem.

SouthStndJunkie
07-10-2008, 12:16 PM
Bah, its football not international espionage.... These things lend color, life, and insight to our team. Is it really surprising that Sundquist wasn't 100% in love with every decision made? That's true of 100% of businesses everywhere.

Considering that Shanny keeps a tight lid on things, I am very surprised he allowed this level of access.

If he had known how freely people would have been talking to the reporter, I doubt he would have ever allowed this.

Heck, he won't even throw the Denver Post or RMN a bone these days.

Beantown Bronco
07-10-2008, 12:17 PM
As was alluded to in the other thread, there is a reason why good old Ted is still unemployed.....there is no way Shanny stays unemployed for 4 days, much less 4 months if he were ever canned.

theAPAOps5
07-10-2008, 12:19 PM
Sundquist's opinion didn't bother me as much as him being open about it to other employees. How could it do anything but undermine Mike Shanahan?

Well I think any undermining that may have occurred was quickly erased when Shanny fired Sundquist. Sounds to me like Sundquist was the bad apple. Wabbit has eluded to as much and he is an unbiased party. He has said Sundquist should have went way before this off season.

Northman
07-10-2008, 12:24 PM
Plummer was a good guy. Very likable.

He just wasn't a very good quarterback. True to his likable guy nature, he had his moments where he'd play outside his head and ability. That was fun to watch - at least at first.

But at the end of the day, he wasn't getting it done. No matter what Sundquist (or anyone else) thinks about the move to bench him at the time that it happened, the fact is that he wasn't getting it done. Maybe there *are* other fingers to point. But that doesn't change the fact that Plummer was a problem.


Exactly.

theAPAOps5
07-10-2008, 12:26 PM
You know Popps and TJ both posted in this thread. That hasn't happened for a long time. This might revive the classic Popps vs TJ death matches!

Hotrod
07-10-2008, 12:27 PM
IMHO Jake should still be starting in Denver.

Northman
07-10-2008, 12:30 PM
IMHO Jake should still be starting in Denver.

He probably would have if he had any heart left to play. Once his heart wasnt in it, game over.

bronco militia
07-10-2008, 12:30 PM
IMHO Jake should still be starting in Denver.

LOL

somebody ban this fool!

broncosteven
07-10-2008, 12:33 PM
They would've won that game with Jake playing.

We would've gone to the playoffs with Jake playing.

...but we'd be in a significantly worse situation TODAY had Jake finished that year.

We could have made the Playoffs if Jake does not go into the San Fran game in relief and put up a 0.0 Qb rating.

I am beginning to blame Shanny for even putting Jake in that game. I know hindsight is 20-20 but Jake had no motivation to play he proved it by his terrible play, they get the one FG after Bell has the best run of his career and Shanny has to call a QB sneak to protect the ball and kick the FG.

Not sure if they had a #3 QB active that game but they would have been better off that day with a practice squad guy than a disgruntled Jake.

Can we start some Griese threads? I am tired about making the same points over and over about Jake :deadhorse

Hotrod
07-10-2008, 12:37 PM
Jake was a leader and we've yet to see that from Jay. One has to wonder if we dont spend so many picks on Jay what our team would look like today (and last year) if instead those picks were on the D side of the ball. I'm thinking a Vegas odds to win it all.

Kaylore
07-10-2008, 12:39 PM
We could have made the Playoffs if Jake does not go into the San Fran game in relief and put up a 0.0 Qb rating.

I am beginning to blame Shanny for even putting Jake in that game. I know hindsight is 20-20 but Jake had no motivation to play he proved it by his terrible play, they get the one FG after Bell has the best run of his career and Shanny has to call a QB sneak to protect the ball and kick the FG.

Not sure if they had a #3 QB active that game but they would have been better off that day with a practice squad guy than a disgruntled Jake.

Can we start some Griese threads? I am tired about making the same points over and over about Jake :deadhorse
Cutler had a concussion. They decided after watching Jake play that a concussed Cutler was a better option.

Northman
07-10-2008, 12:39 PM
Jake was a leader and we've yet to see that from Jay. One has to wonder if we dont spend so many picks on Jay what our team would look like today (and last year) if instead those picks were on the D side of the ball. I'm thinking a Vegas odds to win it all.


You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted then used against you.

no-pseudo-fan
07-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Plummer was a good guy. Very likable.

He just wasn't a very good quarterback. True to his likable guy nature, he had his moments where he'd play outside his head and ability. That was fun to watch - at least at first.

But at the end of the day, he wasn't getting it done. No matter what Sundquist (or anyone else) thinks about the move to bench him at the time that it happened, the fact is that he wasn't getting it done. Maybe there *are* other fingers to point. But that doesn't change the fact that Plummer was a problem.

I will be getting my copy very soon. It is very unprofessional anywhere for a higher ranking employee to voice his concerns with lower ranked employees. It causes a lot of issues.

Jake had cold feet, and Shanahan lost confidence in Jake. Jake was always going to be Jake, no matter who the coach was. Jay is now, Jake was then, end of story:egbgb:

SonOfLe-loLang
07-10-2008, 12:47 PM
Bah, its football not international espionage.... These things lend color, life, and insight to our team. Is it really surprising that Sundquist wasn't 100% in love with every decision made? That's true of 100% of businesses everywhere.

I agree. I really dont think the book puts the Denver Broncos in a bad light, I think Fatsis was careful to tell the truth, without being mean. I think the Broncos are just a microcosm of widespread thought in the NFL and I believe Fatsis understood this. There were no huge newsbreaks or anything that came out of this book, but it does give us a great understanding of the daily grind and what motivates players. People here keep calling Todd Sauerbrun an ahole, but I actually think Fatsis's portrayal of him is more one of a troubled, lonely soul. Fatsis even says he would get along with him as he enjoys his sense of humor.

Plus, this was all like 3 years ago, most of that team is gone anyway.

Arkansas Bronco
07-10-2008, 12:49 PM
I know Mike or someone in the broncos hierarchy had to have read the book well before it was published to make sure nothing was leaked.

worm
07-10-2008, 01:04 PM
Based on this....it really didn't matter who was lining up behind center (regardless of what the scape-goatists will tell ya).

What matters is that Ted got the axe. You do whatever you need to do behind closed doors to voice your opinion...but on GameDay\Draft Day\any public day, you BETTER be on the same page as the guy in charge.

The 'Plan' works so much better when it is the whole organization working in the same direction. There is a time for dissension and voicing it aggressively....then there is a time to shut the **** up and work as a unit. On the field and off it.

bronco militia
07-10-2008, 01:04 PM
I know Mike or someone in the broncos hierarchy had to have read the book well before it was published to make sure nothing was leaked.

I doubt that very much

Arkansas Bronco
07-10-2008, 01:09 PM
I doubt that very much

Why is that? I just cant see em letting a guy in, sharing there secrets and not proofing what he released. If they did that then they might as well brodcast their practices and meetings on TV.

NW Bolt Fan
07-10-2008, 01:11 PM
That's pretty much it. The Seattle game was Cutler's first and of course he looked like ass. I have no doubt they beat Seattle in that game if Jake plays. But so what? We wouldn't move forward as a franchise.

Two games later Jay's killing in Arizona, though. And the Charger game on the road was the first game where the safeties had to back out of the box that year because they actually were respecting passes over the middle of the field. Tatum freaking Bell racked up over 100 yards rushing in San Diego that year. He was the only back to do so and they played a healthy Sean Alexander, Larry Johnson, and several other elite backs that weren't able to make that happen.

Jay Cutler right now is a better QB than Jake ever was. Jake would have taken us to the playoffs where we would have been one and done like we are every year.
BS. LJ and Alexander BOTH got 100+ vs. us. But nice spin. BTW, Bell got 51 on one carry... Can you attribute that to cutlet? I guess you guys will anyhow.

Inkana7
07-10-2008, 01:11 PM
Ted Sundquist is an ass.

Jason in LA
07-10-2008, 01:12 PM
It's a good thing he was the GM and not the coach. And after hearing this I'm not too upset that he's gone. Funny, after Jake got benched for his horrible play, the Broncos averaged more points per game and had a QB put up better numbers. So Cutler struggles in his first game. Wasn't that to be expected? What the hell did Ted do anyways. I never understood why he got so much credit for the good things that the Broncos did while Shanahan got all the credit for the bad things. Ted's a stooge.

Inkana7
07-10-2008, 01:12 PM
BS. LJ and Alexander BOTH got 100+ vs. us. But nice spin. BTW, Bell got 51 on one carry... Can you attribute that to cutlet? I guess you guys will anyhow.

Maybe after that game. But Tatum Bell was the first RB to go over 100 yards since like 2004.

Jason in LA
07-10-2008, 01:14 PM
As for the Broncos winning the Seattle game if Jake played, and them making the playoffs if they stuck with him, I call BS on both accounts. Anyone watch Plummer in the games leading up to him getting benched. He flat out sucked, even in the wins. He was horrible all season, and the Broncos were starting to tail spin. If they had kept him in there, there is no question in my mind that they wouldn't have been playing for a playoff spot in the final week of the season. They would have continued in their tail spin and probably finished 8-8 or 7-9. Cutler wasn't great, but he was better than Plummer, which I'd say saved the season.

Shanahan clearly made the right decision.

Hotrod
07-10-2008, 01:15 PM
Does anyone know what Jakes winning pct was in Denver???

DukeWoody
07-10-2008, 01:17 PM
Does anyone know what Jakes winning pct was in Denver???

Jake played handball in Denver, this i didn't know??

Jason in LA
07-10-2008, 01:18 PM
Does anyone know what Jakes winning pct was in Denver???

I'm sure it was really good. Somebody will come up with that stat. But I wouldn't give him the credit for that. They were better when he did less. Give Cutler the running game and run defense that Plummer had, and they win the Super Bowl. I think Cutler is that good.

Punisher
07-10-2008, 01:22 PM
When the Broncos drafted Cutler i knew Jake was going to get benched or Traded,but 06 was too soon we had a good Defence and a good O-line.All we needed was a wildcard spot and jake to mange the game well and theres no telling what we could have done.But that was then and this is NOW

LittleFloyd
07-10-2008, 01:23 PM
I submit that any team in the NFL that gave access to a writer would end up looking bad. No matter what business you are in, an outsider looking in would think any business is made up of a bunch of jerks and losers.

bronco militia
07-10-2008, 01:26 PM
Why is that? I just cant see em letting a guy in, sharing there secrets and not proofing what he released. If they did that then they might as well brodcast their practices and meetings on TV.


as far as X's O's sure.

that's not what this book is about

400HZ
07-10-2008, 01:26 PM
Maybe after that game. But Tatum Bell was the first RB to go over 100 yards since like 2004.

How do you let an all-star like that get away? :rofl:

NW Bolt Fan
07-10-2008, 01:29 PM
Maybe after that game. But Tatum Bell was the first RB to go over 100 yards since like 2004.
LJ did it in week 7. T. Bell did it in week 14.

kmonty
07-10-2008, 01:32 PM
I know Mike or someone in the broncos hierarchy had to have read the book well before it was published to make sure nothing was leaked.

Disclaimer at the very end of the book says otherwise:

Team owner Pat Bowlen, head coach Mike Shanahan, and general manager Ted Sundquist imposed no restrictions on me. They didn't ask to (and didn't) review the manuscript before publication....

Man-Goblin
07-10-2008, 01:34 PM
Does anyone know what Jakes winning pct was in Denver???

It is very high, I know that. And for his years here the Broncos certainly weren't THAT loaded to where they could carry an abysmal QB. Sure, they had to babysit him to an extent and put him in position to make plays, but he did just that.

Jake gets a bad rap, but I'm still extremely happy to have Jay Cutler.

Kaylore
07-10-2008, 01:34 PM
BS. LJ and Alexander BOTH got 100+ vs. us. But nice spin. BTW, Bell got 51 on one carry... Can you attribute that to cutlet? I guess you guys will anyhow.



Wrong. (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29080&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG15)

I said in San Diego. I confused Seattle with St. Louis. So guys like LJ and Steven Jackson couldn't do jack. But once Cutler to Scheffler scared your safeties off the line of scrimmage the Broncos rushing game started to look like it was supposed to.

Tatum Bell is the only running back to rush for 100 yards in San Diego. Our offense did more against you guys in your house with healthy players than they did at home with missing two starters.

You lose. Cutler rules and you'll have to deal with it.

SouthStndJunkie
07-10-2008, 01:36 PM
Disclaimer at the very end of the book says otherwise:

Team owner Pat Bowlen, head coach Mike Shanahan, and general manager Ted Sundquist imposed no restrictions on me. They didn't ask to (and didn't) review the manuscript before publication....

I am sure this dude will not be showing up to do a second book with the Broncos.

400HZ
07-10-2008, 01:38 PM
Wrong. (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29080&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG15)

I said in San Diego. I confused Seattle with St. Louis. So guys like LJ and Steven Jackson couldn't do jack. But once Cutler to Scheffler scared your safeties off the line of scrimmage the Broncos rushing game started to look like it was supposed to.

Tatum Bell is the only running back to rush for 100 yards in San Diego. Our offense did more against you guys in your house with healthy players than they did at home with missing two starters.

You lose. Cutler rules and you'll have to deal with it.

Hilarious!

NW Bolt Fan
07-10-2008, 01:40 PM
Wrong. (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29080&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG15)

I said in San Diego. I confused Seattle with St. Louis. So guys like LJ and Steven Jackson couldn't do jack. But once Cutler to Scheffler scared your safeties off the line of scrimmage the Broncos rushing game started to look like it was supposed to.

Tatum Bell is the only running back to rush for 100 yards in San Diego. Our offense did more against you guys in your house with healthy players than they did at home with missing two starters.

You lose. Cutler rules and you'll have to deal with it.You are correct- partially. ;D I did miss the in SD part instead of vs...

Bronco Jamus
07-10-2008, 01:41 PM
Plummer was a good guy. Very likable.

He just wasn't a very good quarterback. True to his likable guy nature, he had his moments where he'd play outside his head and ability. That was fun to watch - at least at first.

But at the end of the day, he wasn't getting it done. No matter what Sundquist (or anyone else) thinks about the move to bench him at the time that it happened, the fact is that he wasn't getting it done. Maybe there *are* other fingers to point. But that doesn't change the fact that Plummer was a problem.

I agree.

400HZ
07-10-2008, 01:43 PM
Wrong. (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29080&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG15)

I said in San Diego. I confused Seattle with St. Louis. So guys like LJ and Steven Jackson couldn't do jack. But once Cutler to Scheffler scared your safeties off the line of scrimmage the Broncos rushing game started to look like it was supposed to.

Tatum Bell is the only running back to rush for 100 yards in San Diego. Our offense did more against you guys in your house with healthy players than they did at home with missing two starters.

You lose. Cutler rules and you'll have to deal with it.

Hahaha, I mean..seriously? That game was over at halftime when Cutler was sitting at about 35 yards passing and turnovers. Tatum got that freak 50 yard run early on, but that was an aberation that's bound to happen once or twice a year. It's not like he was having any consistant success running.

Kaylore
07-10-2008, 01:48 PM
Hahaha, I mean..seriously? That game was over at halftime when Cutler was sitting at about 35 yards passing and turnovers. Tatum got that freak 50 yard run early on, but that was an aberation that's bound to happen once or twice a year. It's not like he was having any consistant success running.

Yeah it was. His average was better than most with the limited caries he got. We rushed for more than the Steelers, Chiefs, Rams and many other elite rushing teams on you guys. I love how you want to throw out his 50 yard run, which you admit was early on before the game was over. That's like saying "our passing defense is awesome if you take away those two long bomb's we gave up" or "my financial situation is awesome if you take away all the debt I owe." And I'm the one "spinning" things?

telluride
07-10-2008, 01:49 PM
Why is that? I just cant see em letting a guy in, sharing there secrets and not proofing what he released. If they did that then they might as well brodcast their practices and meetings on TV.

There is no possible way that Fatsis would have given Shanny or the organization editorial control over the book's content. That's not how legitimate non-fiction writing works. Had Shanny insisted upon it, Fatsis simply would have moved on to another franchise that placed no conditions on his reporting or writing.

Fatsis is a legitimate reporter and writer, and his publisher is credible. That book would have gone through several rounds of editing, a round of fact checking, and at least one round of lawyering before its release. You can be pretty certain that everything in it is legit.

Back on topic: Sundquist comes off as an ass whining to his underlings about a decision that his boss made. And if his appraisal of talent led him to believe that the franchise would be better off with Jake than Jay, then we should all be glad he's gone. (By the way, these quotes in the book aren't going to help Sundquist get another job any time soon.)

400HZ
07-10-2008, 01:52 PM
Yeah it was. His average was better than most with the limited caries he got. We rushed for more than the Steelers, Chiefs, Rams and many other elite rushing teams on you guys. I love how you want to throw out his 50 yard run, which you admit was early on before the game was over. That's like saying "our passing defense is awesome if you take away those two long bomb's we gave up" or "my financial situation is awesome if you take away all the debt I owe." And I'm the one "spinning" things?

I'm not throwing out his 50 yard run, I'm just saying that based on the Charger's record of run defense that year, it was a freak play. As for you suggesting that Cutler made it happen with his golden arm after putting up all of ~35 yards passing in the first half...:rofl: :homer:

NW Bolt Fan
07-10-2008, 01:54 PM
Yeah it was. His average was better than most with the limited caries he got. We rushed for more than the Steelers, Chiefs, Rams and many other elite rushing teams on you guys. I love how you want to throw out his 50 yard run, which you admit was early on before the game was over. That's like saying "our passing defense is awesome if you take away those two long bomb's we gave up" or "my financial situation is awesome if you take away all the debt I owe." And I'm the one "spinning" things?It's kind of spin to use that game as an example of doing well... However, I do agree that you can't take out huge gains as part of the avg...

400HZ
07-10-2008, 01:54 PM
It's kind of spin to use that game as an example of doing well... However, I do agree that you can't take out huge gains as part of the avg...

It's called a statistical outlier. How many times did 50+ yard runs happen in 2006 against the Chargers?

Broncoman13
07-10-2008, 02:00 PM
They would've won that game with Jake playing.

We would've gone to the playoffs with Jake playing.

...but we'd be in a significantly worse situation TODAY had Jake finished that year.


QFT

NW Bolt Fan
07-10-2008, 02:01 PM
It's called a statistical outlier. How many times did 50+ yard runs happen in 2006 against the Chargers?It's like grading on a curve. If you're throwing out the A's, you gotta throw out the F's too. Cynics like to argue the same against LT. Wihtout that 43 yard run he'd only have 61 yards, but he did have the 43 yard run...

I understand your point, but my belief is, it's the average for a reason. But I really don't think it had much to do with Cutler.

GarretBarnes
07-10-2008, 02:04 PM
Well so far I think Sundquist is wrong. Jay Cutler is a star of the future and Jake Plummer couldn't get a starting job. Isn't he retired now?

400HZ
07-10-2008, 02:21 PM
It's like grading on a curve. If you're throwing out the A's, you gotta throw out the F's too. Cynics like to argue the same against LT. Wihtout that 43 yard run he'd only have 61 yards, but he did have the 43 yard run...

I understand your point, but my belief is, it's the average for a reason. But I really don't think it had much to do with Cutler.

LT consistantly came up with 40 yard runs and the SD run D gave up one or two long runs all year. It's basic statistics. Your getting away from Kaylore's awesome point that Cutler's 35 yards of badass, HOF caliber passing in the first half opened up the field for Tatum Bell.

Taco John
07-10-2008, 02:26 PM
I have to wonder if this revelation is part of what cost Sundquist his job. Surely Shanahan made sure he had access to what Fatsis was writing - early manuscripts and what-not...

kmonty
07-10-2008, 02:35 PM
LT consistantly came up with 40 yard runs and the SD run D gave up one or two long runs all year. It's basic statistics. Your getting away from Kaylore's awesome point that Cutler's 35 yards of badass, HOF caliber passing in the first half opened up the field for Tatum Bell.

This isn't groundbreaking news here. Geez. Cutler has a bigger arm. To respect the big play, defenders can't simply stuff the line of scrimmage like they could with Jake.

Sometimes you guys argue just for the sake of arguing.

kmonty
07-10-2008, 02:38 PM
I have to wonder if this revelation is part of what cost Sundquist his job. Surely Shanahan made sure he had access to what Fatsis was writing - early manuscripts and what-not...

There's some interesting stuff about Heimerdinger too. Dove Valley is like Big Brother - everything's recorded from tons of cameras. Dinger would turn off or cover the cameras at times when talking to the players. Which pissed the players off. Just weird stuff.

Arkansas Bronco
07-10-2008, 02:39 PM
Disclaimer at the very end of the book says otherwise:

Team owner Pat Bowlen, head coach Mike Shanahan, and general manager Ted Sundquist imposed no restrictions on me. They didn't ask to (and didn't) review the manuscript before publication....

Wow. Just wow. I stand corrected Militia.

Rock Chalk
07-10-2008, 02:40 PM
Plummer was a good guy. Very likable.

He just wasn't a very good quarterback. True to his likable guy nature, he had his moments where he'd play outside his head and ability. That was fun to watch - at least at first.

But at the end of the day, he wasn't getting it done. No matter what Sundquist (or anyone else) thinks about the move to bench him at the time that it happened, the fact is that he wasn't getting it done. Maybe there *are* other fingers to point. But that doesn't change the fact that Plummer was a problem.

All true. Plummer at the end of the day didnt get it done.

But at the end of the day, Cutler hasnt either AND the team doesn't have confidence in him. He has yet to exert his leadership and get the team to truly believe in him.

It hasn't helped Cutler that we lost theheart and soul of our defense and that our offensive line was in absolute shambles last year, or that we couldnt keep a player from getting injured, but this is also true of any team. No matter the QB, the team around HAS to be good and you as a TEAM have to overcome injuries because they are a very BIG part of the game.

I will believe in Cutler when I see some true leadership from him. Talking trash to the opposing team while getting your ass kicked is not leadership. calling out players in public because you are frustrated with them is not leadership. I have absolutely nothing against Cutler except that he isnt great. Yet. Not even close to being great. Right now I just want him to be good and he isnt even that yet. He has the same problems as EVERY young QB in that he stares down receivers and makes poor decisions when the heat is on. Even the great ones do this. Elway and Manning and Marino and Montana all made some horrible decisions under pressure. Where Cutler needs to improve is to start making some of those under-pressure situations turn positive. more than he is.

He will. But you people need to stop proclaiming him to be the best of the bunch from that class. The entire class has not shown anything to anyone that is worthy of such high praise yet and even if he is the best right now, being the best of an average crop doesnt really mean much?

Cue the rovolution neg rep because I give criticism where it is rightfully due. Douches.

TheReverend
07-10-2008, 02:49 PM
He's the best of the draft class for certain.

theAPAOps5
07-10-2008, 02:49 PM
Sorry I have to do it. Cutler has shown a ton more leadership then :cough: Vince Young.............

And where do you get the team has no confidence in him. You are purely making that up.

telluride
07-10-2008, 02:51 PM
All true. Plummer at the end of the day didnt get it done.

But at the end of the day, Cutler hasnt either AND the team doesn't have confidence in him. He has yet to exert his leadership and get the team to truly believe in him.

It hasn't helped Cutler that we lost theheart and soul of our defense and that our offensive line was in absolute shambles last year, or that we couldnt keep a player from getting injured, but this is also true of any team. No matter the QB, the team around HAS to be good and you as a TEAM have to overcome injuries because they are a very BIG part of the game.

I will believe in Cutler when I see some true leadership from him. Talking trash to the opposing team while getting your ass kicked is not leadership. calling out players in public because you are frustrated with them is not leadership. I have absolutely nothing against Cutler except that he isnt great. Yet. Not even close to being great. Right now I just want him to be good and he isnt even that yet. He has the same problems as EVERY young QB in that he stares down receivers and makes poor decisions when the heat is on. Even the great ones do this. Elway and Manning and Marino and Montana all made some horrible decisions under pressure. Where Cutler needs to improve is to start making some of those under-pressure situations turn positive. more than he is.

He will. But you people need to stop proclaiming him to be the best of the bunch from that class. The entire class has not shown anything to anyone that is worthy of such high praise yet and even if he is the best right now, being the best of an average crop doesnt really mean much?

Cue the rovolution neg rep because I give criticism where it is rightfully due. Douches.

I doubt that you -- or anyone on this board -- has magical insight into whether the team considers Jay a "true leader" yet. He's certainly shown that he's tough, fearless, physically gifted, and willing and able to play through a medical condition that would have sidelined most players. I suspect that many people would call all of this "leadership." I certainly do.

theAPAOps5
07-10-2008, 02:52 PM
There's some interesting stuff about Heimerdinger too. Dove Valley is like Big Brother - everything's recorded from tons of cameras. Dinger would turn off or cover the cameras at times when talking to the players. Which pissed the players off. Just weird stuff.

The big brother thing is a direct cause of Bill Walsh. when Shanahan started with the 9ers Walsh gave him video of every team meeting ever held there. So that Shanny could see how coaching was run there. Shanny brought that with him to the Broncos.

bronco militia
07-10-2008, 02:54 PM
He will. But you people need to stop proclaiming him to be the best of the bunch from that class. The entire class has not shown anything to anyone that is worthy of such high praise yet and even if he is the best right now, being the best of an average crop doesnt really mean much?.

He's better than Vince Young. that's all I care about;D

OOJack
07-10-2008, 02:55 PM
No thanks on getting the book. Why would I want to relive a nightmare? Jay coulda used a full season on the bench and Jake was pimp, even though he made my heart stop 10 times a game.

Arkansas Bronco
07-10-2008, 02:57 PM
No thanks on getting the book. Why would I want to relive a nightmare? Jay coulda used a full season on the bench and Jake was pimp, even though he made my heart stop 10 times a game.

Wasnt as bad for me, most of his picks you could call pretty fast.

theAPAOps5
07-10-2008, 02:58 PM
No thanks on getting the book. Why would I want to relive a nightmare? Jay coulda used a full season on the bench and Jake was pimp, even though he made my heart stop 10 times a game.

Well thank god the book isn't about Jay and Jake. Pretty sure that point was understood by all. This is just an excerpt.

kmonty
07-10-2008, 03:06 PM
The big brother thing is a direct cause of Bill Walsh. when Shanahan started with the 9ers Walsh gave him video of every team meeting ever held there. So that Shanny could see how coaching was run there. Shanny brought that with him to the Broncos.

Yup you're exactly right. They talk about that in the book (Shanahan interviews with Fatsis half a dozen times or more).

JCMElway
07-10-2008, 03:28 PM
IMHO Jake should still be starting in Denver.

wow. There aren't many other statements you could come up with that I would disagree with more. Cutler is going to be a star in this league. Plummer was an average QB who couldn't make all the throws, was not a good pocket passer, and needed the offense spoon fed to him.

TheReverend
07-10-2008, 03:34 PM
...and Hotrod's mission statement is now getting stamped with "accomplished"

vancejohnson82
07-10-2008, 03:37 PM
I'm not sure how this thread could be less interesting....

broncosteven
07-10-2008, 03:46 PM
I'm not sure how this thread could be less interesting....

Boob could be talking about Croyle's win percentage...

Blueflame
07-10-2008, 03:51 PM
IMHO Jake should still be starting in Denver.

Jake was a leader and we've yet to see that from Jay. One has to wonder if we dont spend so many picks on Jay what our team would look like today (and last year) if instead those picks were on the D side of the ball. I'm thinking a Vegas odds to win it all.

:stirstir: :stirstir: :nutkick LOL

Beantown Bronco
07-10-2008, 03:51 PM
Boob could be talking about Croyle's win percentage...

But that's only because it reminds him of a donut.

Kaylore
07-10-2008, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure how this thread could be less interesting....

How about I add an article on medieval etiquette?

There was an increasing trend throughout the Middle Ages to escape the stern collectivism that permeated the entire period. Otherwise the medieval meal was a communal affair, like every other part of life. The entire household, including servants, would ideally dine together. To sneak off to enjoy private company was considered a haughty and inefficient egotism in a world where people depended very much on each other. In the 13th century, English bishop Robert Grosseteste advised the Countess of Lincoln: "forbid dinners and suppers out of hall, in secret and in private rooms, for from this arises waste and no honour to the lord and lady." He also recommended to watch that the servants not make off with leftovers to make merry at rere-suppers, rather than giving it as alms. Although there are descriptions of dining etiquette on special occasions, less is known about the details of day to day meals of the elite or about the table manners of the common people and the destitute. However, it can be assumed there were no such extravagant luxuries as multiple courses, luxurious spices or hand-washing in scented water.[10]

vancejohnson82
07-10-2008, 03:55 PM
Boob could be talking about Croyle's win percentage...


ok, i stand corrected

I'd rather edit a Brooke Hogan economics term paper than read another Croyle post...

Hotrod
07-10-2008, 04:04 PM
wow. There aren't many other statements you could come up with that I would disagree with more. Cutler is going to be a star in this league. Plummer was an average QB who couldn't make all the throws, was not a good pocket passer, and needed the offense spoon fed to him.

How can you people even think like that. Jake had us just short of the SB and Jay has done nothing but show an occassional flash of potential. Jay has to date done nothing to be labeled a star in this league. As a matter of fact Jays only accomplishment to date is leading his team to a worse draft pick then Croyle.

broncosteven
07-10-2008, 04:07 PM
How about I add an article on medieval etiquette?

I found it more interesting than the rest of the thread. I do have a lecture about Chaucer in my car cd player at the present.

bpc
07-10-2008, 05:10 PM
All you had to do was watch Jake crap in his hat on Thanksgiving against KC which left the coaching staff with no choice but to move to Jay C. That was a pathetic chiefs team that we allowed to moonwalk into the playoffs and despite popular believe (it was Cutler's inexperience at fault down the stretch), it was rather Jake deciding to play as horribly as he did that weekend which cost us the rest of the season.

The defense utterly collapsed down the stretch despite Cutler playing better than Plummer had all season.

oubronco
07-10-2008, 05:14 PM
wow. There aren't many other statements you could come up with that I would disagree with more. Cutler is going to be a star in this league. Plummer was an average QB who couldn't make all the throws, was not a good pocket passer, and needed the offense spoon fed to him.

he could throw underhand and behind his back for interceptions isn't that good enough

Hotrod
07-10-2008, 05:21 PM
he could throw underhand and behind his back for interceptions isn't that good enough

I'll remind you sir that a switch hitter in baseball is a highly pursued commodity.

BroncoBuff
07-10-2008, 05:25 PM
Oh, brother ... Sundquist a Jay-hater? :oyvey:


Good riddance, Ted.

TheChamp24
07-10-2008, 05:32 PM
I love the Chugger fans arguing in this thread, lol

Fact is, Cutler didn't show quit in him, and tried to make a game of things. and besides, the Broncos still had 162 rushing yards that game, averaging over 5 yards a carry.
Cutler was okay as a rookie just starting, going 17/30 for 188 and 2 TD's.

BroncoBuff
07-10-2008, 05:32 PM
IMHO Jake should still be starting in Denver.
C'mon, Hotrod ... we went as far as we could with Jake in 2005. Once Cutler was drafted, that was that. To say Jake should be starting, is to say we should not have drafted Jay. Is that where you want to be really?

Hotrod
07-10-2008, 05:43 PM
C'mon, Hotrod ... we went as far as we could with Jake in 2005. Once Cutler was drafted, that was that. To say Jake should be starting, is to say we should not have drafted Jay. Is that where you want to be really?

Its pure speculation on your part that Jake could never take us to the promised land. I wonder how good our D could be today with those picks we used on a position that was not of need. Now Jay has a debilitating disease and who knows how that will effect his ability now and in the future. This could be another one of Shannys wasted picks that ends up a failure due to injury/disease.

kmonty
07-10-2008, 05:53 PM
Well, give it to Hotrod for not being afraid to go out on a limb.

elsid13
07-10-2008, 06:53 PM
Well, give it to Hotrod for not being afraid to go out on a limb.

or saw it off behind himself

colonelbeef
07-10-2008, 07:24 PM
They would've won that game with Jake playing.

We would've gone to the playoffs with Jake playing.

...but we'd be in a significantly worse situation TODAY had Jake finished that year.

Precisely. Bowlen knows what he is doing. He is hitched to the right horse.

TheChamp24
07-10-2008, 08:04 PM
Its pure speculation on your part that Jake could never take us to the promised land. I wonder how good our D could be today with those picks we used on a position that was not of need. Now Jay has a debilitating disease and who knows how that will effect his ability now and in the future. This could be another one of Shannys wasted picks that ends up a failure due to injury/disease.

gotta agree that we could've added some good, young talent if we didn't make some trades on draft day and the one with San Fran.

Could've had Cromartie and Demeco Ryans in the 1st.

orinjkrush
07-10-2008, 08:18 PM
finger pointin gets us nowhere. nobody here knows the truth of the situation. we can only surmise what went down.

we are where we are. lets hope jay grows up quickly and that our talent imports play up to expectation.

shanny the man should take whatever credit comes this season. Or should shoulder ALL the blame.

wolf754life
07-10-2008, 08:20 PM
if it quacks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it says aflac! it must be a rat bas tard

theAPAOps5
07-10-2008, 08:25 PM
gotta agree that we could've added some good, young talent if we didn't make some trades on draft day and the one with San Fran.

Could've had Cromartie and Demeco Ryans in the 1st.

And it still wouldn't matter with a subpar QB who can't get out of his own way. All those players are worth their weight in gold for Cutler.

24champ
07-10-2008, 08:45 PM
I think what the arguement is not whether we like Jay today or not. I do think starting Jay in the Seattle game when our team was still in the playoff hunt, was a good move in 2005. I have to agree with Ted Sundquist on that front. According to that transcript the OP put up...

"When Cutler fumbles a snap, Sundquist remarks, "He did that about three times in practice." Someone else replies, "I heard six."

Doesn't sound like a guy ready for NFL action to me.

Bronco_Beerslug
07-10-2008, 08:56 PM
Its pure speculation on your part that Jake could never take us to the promised land. I wonder how good our D could be today with those picks we used on a position that was not of need. Now Jay has a debilitating disease and who knows how that will effect his ability now and in the future. This could be another one of Shannys wasted picks that ends up a failure due to injury/disease.Plummer was the best thing to hit Denver besides the Rocky Mountains.......Is that how you do it?

Bronco_Beerslug
07-10-2008, 08:58 PM
When Cutler fumbles a snap, Sundquist remarks, "He did that about three times in practice." Someone else replies, "I heard six."[/FONT]
.That was Plummer you idiot, no wonder you aren't here anymore.

broncosteven
07-10-2008, 09:11 PM
Its pure speculation on your part that Jake could never take us to the promised land. I wonder how good our D could be today with those picks we used on a position that was not of need. Now Jay has a debilitating disease and who knows how that will effect his ability now and in the future. This could be another one of Shannys wasted picks that ends up a failure due to injury/disease.

We should trade Cutler and get some top picks while he still has value before the "Beetus" takes his toes, legs and arms.

If we sign the best QB in FA, the one with the most "Moxie", we will still be assured more wins than Croyle has had over his career.

24champ
07-10-2008, 09:15 PM
That was Plummer you idiot, no wonder you aren't here anymore.

It was Cutler that fumbled the snap and Sundquist commented on it. Get your head out of your ass.

kmonty
07-10-2008, 09:18 PM
We should trade Cutler and get some top picks while he still has value before the "Beetus" takes his toes, legs and arms.

If we sign the best QB in FA, the one with the most "Moxie", we will still be assured more wins than Croyle has had over his career.

Hilarious! Post of the day.

Bronco_Beerslug
07-10-2008, 10:16 PM
It was Cutler that fumbled the snap and Sundquist commented on it. Get your head out of your ass.Maybe I should have been more clear, they were talking about practice.
Sundquist remarks, "He did that about three times in practice." Someone else replies, "I heard six."

24champ
07-10-2008, 10:20 PM
Maybe I should have been more clear, they were talking about practice.

Maybe I missed it, but where is the Plummer reference?

BroncoBuff
07-11-2008, 12:26 AM
Well, give it to Hotrod for not being afraid to go out on a limb.
Yeah, I agree ... it's a tough stance these days to say that.

And I don't know that we absolutely peaked, I just felt he played poorly in a home field Championship game. That INT just before half was the clincher to me.

400HZ
07-11-2008, 02:30 AM
I love the Chugger fans arguing in this thread, lol

Fact is, Cutler didn't show quit in him, and tried to make a game of things. and besides, the Broncos still had 162 rushing yards that game, averaging over 5 yards a carry.
Cutler was okay as a rookie just starting, going 17/30 for 188 and 2 TD's.

And yete the gaje way stiil over at halftime even with 5 yards a carry. Cutler was able ot pad gis stats in the 3rd but then he din't do **** in the 4th. Pretty standard.

kmonty
07-11-2008, 03:23 AM
And yete the gaje way stiil over at halftime even with 5 yards a carry. Cutler was able ot pad gis stats in the 3rd but then he din't do **** in the 4th. Pretty standard.

Wate ar ouy taking abut?

Taco John
07-11-2008, 04:16 AM
Yeah, I agree ... it's a tough stance these days to say that.

And I don't know that we absolutely peaked, I just felt he played poorly in a home field Championship game. That INT just before half was the clincher to me.



That was a most painful game, watching it live. That was the beginning of the end, I suspect. Shanahan had seen everything he needed from Plummer and made the decision to draft Jay.

Blueflame
07-11-2008, 04:32 AM
That was a most painful game, watching it live. That was the beginning of the end, I suspect. Shanahan had seen everything he needed from Plummer and made the decision to draft Jay.

The point when I knew for certain the Plummer era was over (and that we had a very real QB controversy) was Week One of '06 vs. the Rams. Plummer's performance that day was abominable.

kmonty
07-11-2008, 04:42 AM
The point when I knew for certain the Plummer era was over (and that we had a very real QB controversy) was Week One of '06 vs. the Rams. Plummer's performance that day was abominable.

I really don't want to ruin too much from the book - the author has been very generous with me. But there's a lot more behind the scenes than anyone realized.

Here's just a quick excerpt regarding that game:

Don't blame Jake, my teammates tell me, blame the coaches. "We didn't do one single ****ing thing from our preseason offense," Preston Parsons says. "We have the hardest, longest game plan you could imagine. They changed everything." That plus the noise in the St. Louis domed stadium and a bunch of dropped passes created an offensive breakdown.

This is not what this book is about. In fact, everything I've quoted comes from the epilogue afterward (the entire story takes place before and during training camp). It's Fatsis' way of catching up with the players he became closest with through his original experiences. Just FYI.

fontaine
07-11-2008, 07:41 AM
I really don't want to ruin too much from the book - the author has been very generous with me. But there's a lot more behind the scenes than anyone realized.

Here's just a quick excerpt regarding that game:

Don't blame Jake, my teammates tell me, blame the coaches. "We didn't do one single ****ing thing from our preseason offense," Preston Parsons says. "We have the hardest, longest game plan you could imagine. They changed everything." That plus the noise in the St. Louis domed stadium and a bunch of dropped passes created an offensive breakdown.

This is not what this book is about. In fact, everything I've quoted comes from the epilogue afterward (the entire story takes place before and during training camp). It's Fatsis' way of catching up with the players he became closest with through his original experiences. Just FYI.

:rofl:

No way, this is what he said? This is just too good.

You mean to say coaches don't re use stuff from preseason offense/games?
You mean to say coaches come with new gameplans every week?
You mean to say Shanahan runs a complicated, tough WCO type offense?
You mean to say there's loud noise in a dome?

:rofl:
You know, because the Rams at home, have been such a bastion of NFL defensive dominance over the years?
:rofl:

Preston Parsons: Possibly the ugliest, and now dumbest QB in the free agent market. I mean, how is this guy not snapped up by all the QB needy franchises?
http://www.rotoworld.com/images/headshots/NFL/2075.jpg

Northman
07-11-2008, 07:51 AM
Well, give it to Hotrod for not being afraid to go out on a limb.

He's not going out on a limb, he is just a drama lama. I know his game. :~ohyah!:

Northman
07-11-2008, 07:55 AM
And yete the gaje way stiil over at halftime even with 5 yards a carry. Cutler was able ot pad gis stats in the 3rd but then he din't do **** in the 4th. Pretty standard.


Someone's been drinking.

Northman
07-11-2008, 07:56 AM
The point when I knew for certain the Plummer era was over (and that we had a very real QB controversy) was Week One of '06 vs. the Rams. Plummer's performance that day was abominable.


Yeeeeeeeeeep.

Northman
07-11-2008, 07:59 AM
I really don't want to ruin too much from the book - the author has been very generous with me. But there's a lot more behind the scenes than anyone realized.

Here's just a quick excerpt regarding that game:

Don't blame Jake, my teammates tell me, blame the coaches. "We didn't do one single ****ing thing from our preseason offense," Preston Parsons says. "We have the hardest, longest game plan you could imagine. They changed everything." That plus the noise in the St. Louis domed stadium and a bunch of dropped passes created an offensive breakdown.

This is not what this book is about. In fact, everything I've quoted comes from the epilogue afterward (the entire story takes place before and during training camp). It's Fatsis' way of catching up with the players he became closest with through his original experiences. Just FYI.


Uh yea, thats why they call it game planning. Preseason is about being as vanilla as possible. Parsons is an idiot. From what you have posted about the book it sounds nothing more than absolute garbage. Why would i waste my money on this crap?

maher_tyler
07-11-2008, 09:19 AM
From Stefan Fatsis' just-released A Few Seconds of Panic:

I watch the [Seattle] game with Ted Sundquist and his staff, and it's clear to me they don't agree with the change. A few weeks earlier, Sundquist had told me he didn't feel Jake was the sole reason for the offense's poor play. On Cutler's first series, the Broncos run three plays and punt. "Same result," someone says. When Cutler fumbles a snap, Sundquist remarks, "He did that about three times in practice." Someone else replies, "I heard six." Then, as he is hit by a defensive lineman, Cutler wings the ball blindly into the air. It's intercepted and returned for a touchdown. Pens and binoculars fly in our box high above the field....

In the locker room afterward, Cutler tells Jake that the team would have won had he been playing.

-
Fatsis interviews Jake the next day, and Plummer is pretty candid about his feelings on the whole thing (he's beyond pissed off).

If you haven't gotten a copy yet, I highly recommend it. It's a great read in and of itself, but it's just got all these extra details Broncos fans will be appreciate. I'll be posting a full book review today on BroncoTalk and will also have a Q&A with the author a bit later.

That was going on 2 years ago...Plummer is gone, sundquist is gone...MOVE ON!!! It WAS the right move, we weren't winning the super bowl that year anyway and turns out it was a the right move thus far...MOVE ON!!!

TheChamp24
07-11-2008, 10:40 AM
The point when I knew for certain the Plummer era was over (and that we had a very real QB controversy) was Week One of '06 vs. the Rams. Plummer's performance that day was abominable.

Thats when I was thinking Cutler may very well play this year(in 2006).
The biggest moment was when it was a PA bootleg, and Todd Devoe was WIDE OPEN in the middle of the field, yet Plummer waits an extra 3 seconds before throwing it, right in the direction of the only defender close to Devoe.

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 10:54 AM
gotta agree that we could've added some good, young talent if we didn't make some trades on draft day and the one with San Fran.

Could've had Cromartie and Demeco Ryans in the 1st.

Thats exactly what this team needed and still does.

Northman
07-11-2008, 10:56 AM
Thats exactly what this team needed and still does.

We need another CB?

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 10:57 AM
The Cutler draft may end up setting this franchise back 10+ years......only time will tell.

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 10:58 AM
We need another CB?

just as badly as we needed to mortgage the future for a qb

Northman
07-11-2008, 10:58 AM
The Cutler draft may end up setting this franchise back 10+ years......only time will tell.

Nah, i dont think so.

bronco militia
07-11-2008, 11:00 AM
The Cutler draft may end up setting this franchise back 10+ years......only time will tell.

:rofl:

broncosteven
07-11-2008, 11:10 AM
We need another CB?

I think Denver should lock up all the Great CB's in the league or at least the top 5 so whom ever we throw out there at QB over the coming years will be assured that he (or she) will not have to worry about facing the top 5 corners in the league.

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 11:12 AM
Really the only thing Cutler has brought to the table is unreasonable expectations from the fans about an average at best football team. Maybe Cutler will still be on the team when we get done rebuilding.

vancejohnson82
07-11-2008, 11:13 AM
ok, we trade Cutler, S. Young and Marshall for Brady Quinn, Bodden and Kellen Winslow Jr.

we need more Tight Ends and Corners....and less diabetes on the team

imagine a set with Graham, Winslow and Scheffler with Quinn at the helm...it would be unstoppable

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 11:16 AM
ok, we trade Cutler, S. Young and Marshall for Brady Quinn, Bodden and Kellen Winslow Jr.

we need more Tight Ends and Corners....and less diabetes on the team

imagine a set with Graham, Winslow and Scheffler with Quinn at the helm...it would be unstoppable

I think your being just a little silly dont you. Its too late to move cutler we already sent our best qb packing and he is now retired. Now we just have to make the best of a bad situation. If we rebuild now we should be ready to compete in a few years if Cutler becomes an NFL calibur QB by then.

kmonty
07-11-2008, 11:29 AM
Uh yea, thats why they call it game planning. Preseason is about being as vanilla as possible. Parsons is an idiot. From what you have posted about the book it sounds nothing more than absolute garbage. Why would i waste my money on this crap?

I tend to agree with your opinion. But trust me, the book isn't garbage. It's a very good read.

broncosteven
07-11-2008, 11:41 AM
ok, we trade Cutler, S. Young and Marshall for Brady Quinn, Bodden and Kellen Winslow Jr.

we need more Tight Ends and Corners....and less diabetes on the team

imagine a set with Graham, Winslow and Scheffler with Quinn at the helm...it would be unstoppable

Brady Quinn looks like he has Moxie in his comercials. I wonder if he is into handball.

broncofan2438
07-11-2008, 11:43 AM
ok, we trade Cutler, S. Young and Marshall for Brady Quinn, Bodden and Kellen Winslow Jr.

we need more Tight Ends and Corners....and less diabetes on the team

imagine a set with Graham, Winslow and Scheffler with Quinn at the helm...it would be unstoppable

Thats crap

lex
07-11-2008, 11:47 AM
That was going on 2 years ago...Plummer is gone, sundquist is gone...MOVE ON!!! It WAS the right move, we weren't winning the super bowl that year anyway and turns out it was a the right move thus far...MOVE ON!!!

Indeed. We had maxed out with Plummer it was time for a change. Plummer gave us the best chance to maker the playoffs but Cutler gave us the best chance in the playoffs. For the Broncos its more about SBs than making it to the playoffs. And lets not forget that prior to Plummer being benched all the Plummer apologists were blaming the problems on the running game but after Cutler went in, our running game started to do better because our coached didnt have to make the offense work with the smoke and mirrors that was required with Plummer. But in any case, our offense was in better shape with Cutler THAT season, not just now.

broncosteven
07-11-2008, 11:47 AM
ok, we trade Cutler, S. Young and Marshall for Brady Quinn, Bodden and Kellen Winslow Jr.

we need more Tight Ends and Corners....and less diabetes on the team

imagine a set with Graham, Winslow and Scheffler with Quinn at the helm...it would be unstoppable

If we had the Top 5 players on the team at every position we would dominate. Why stop at just locking up the best corners?

DukeWoody
07-11-2008, 11:49 AM
I think your being just a little silly dont you. Its too late to move cutler we already sent our best qb packing and he is now retired. Now we just have to make the best of a bad situation. If we rebuild now we should be ready to compete in a few years if Cutler becomes an NFL calibur QB by then.

Rep




















Ahahaha, fooledgah!!!

colonelbeef
07-11-2008, 11:54 AM
I can now see why John Elway had such a hard time with the Denver fans.

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 12:01 PM
I can now see why John Elway had such a hard time with the Denver fans.


I dont think apples and oranges is what were after here sir.

vancejohnson82
07-11-2008, 12:06 PM
anyone who can't see the sarcasm in my post up above should be required to wear a helmet

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 12:07 PM
anyone who can't see the sarcasm in my post up above should be required to wear a helmet

What do you mean???

broncosteven
07-11-2008, 12:14 PM
I can now see why John Elway had such a hard time with the Denver fans.

John is just lucky that he won 2 SB's on his way out.

Griese didn't get the chance he needed to grow in Shanny's system. I think Shanny was hoping Bubby could lead the team at the same level as John for a year and win a 3rd SB so he didn't have to throw a Rookie Griese as the stater.

If Griese had the same coddling as Cutler we would have been perennial champs.

theAPAOps5
07-11-2008, 12:18 PM
If Maddox had the coddling we would have won every SB since!

OABB
07-11-2008, 12:26 PM
if only we would have traded for phillip rivers. He is a probowler and a proven winner in college and now in the pros.

broncosteven
07-11-2008, 12:28 PM
If Maddox had the coddling we would have won every SB since!

Maddox was a winner for the Steelers.... I'm just saying...

theAPAOps5
07-11-2008, 12:29 PM
I saw that interview Cutler had with the NFL network and he just looks like a dud. I wonder if we can get Plummer back.

OOJack
07-11-2008, 12:40 PM
Well thank god the book isn't about Jay and Jake. Pretty sure that point was understood by all. This is just an excerpt.

Ummm, actually, you missed my point. Why would I want to relive the 2006 nightmare of a season through the eyes of a 5-Foot-8, 170-Pound, 43-Year-Old Sportswriter.

Arkansas Bronco
07-11-2008, 12:43 PM
Dortoh what have you done?

Bob's your Information Minister
07-11-2008, 01:34 PM
Sour grapes. Then again I'd be bitter if Mike Shanahan was using me as a scapegoat.

bronco militia
07-11-2008, 01:35 PM
Sour grapes. Then again I'd be bitter if Mike Shanahan was using me as a scapegoat.

speaking of goats, how's your sex life these days?

:rofl:

Northman
07-11-2008, 02:00 PM
I think your being just a little silly dont you. Its too late to move cutler we already sent our best qb packing and he is now retired. Now we just have to make the best of a bad situation. If we rebuild now we should be ready to compete in a few years if Cutler becomes an NFL calibur QB by then.


Dude, Parsons wasnt that good. LOL

Northman
07-11-2008, 02:03 PM
Maddox was a winner for the Steelers.... I'm just saying...

So was Kordell. He loved Elway right? :giggle:

BroncoBuff
07-11-2008, 02:16 PM
The point when I knew for certain the Plummer era was over (and that we had a very real QB controversy) was Week One of '06 vs. the Rams. Plummer's performance that day was abominable.
It was all psychological ... Jake grew up a classic front-runner mentality: Starting in junior high, Jake was the undisputed starting QB in every game his teams ever played, (save the first 6 Cardinals games his rookie year, started by Kent Graham). This streak included starting every game as a true freshman at Arizona State.

He simply didn't have the type of psyche to tolerate his team trading up to #11 to pick a QB, especially after a near-flawless 14-win season.

Northman
07-11-2008, 02:23 PM
It was all psychological ... Jake grew up a classic front-runner mentality: Starting in junior high, Jake was the undisputed starting QB in every game his teams ever played, (save the first 6 Cardinals games his rookie year, started by Kent Graham). This streak included starting every game as a true freshman at Arizona State.

He simply didn't have the type of psyche to tolerate his team trading up to #11 to pick a QB, especially after a near-flawless 14-win season.


And that was his biggest problem as a Qb. No real work ethic unless he felt like it and expected a starting job to be handed to him. Very poor quality traits for a supposed leader.

maher_tyler
07-11-2008, 02:24 PM
anyone who can't see the sarcasm in my post up above should be required to wear a helmet

What sarcasm do you speak of???

maher_tyler
07-11-2008, 02:28 PM
Dude, Parsons wasnt that good. LOL

Wheres Bradly Van Pelt when you need him?

broncosteven
07-11-2008, 02:29 PM
Wheres Bradly Van Pelt when you need him?

Jager Bombs and 1$ beers

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 02:32 PM
It was all psychological ... Jake grew up a classic front-runner mentality: Starting in junior high, Jake was the undisputed starting QB in every game his teams ever played, (save the first 6 Cardinals games his rookie year, started by Kent Graham). This streak included starting every game as a true freshman at Arizona State.

He simply didn't have the type of psyche to tolerate his team trading up to #11 to pick a QB, especially after a near-flawless 14-win season.

Exactly a near perfect 14 win season and then we waste picks on a postion that was not a need. If we hand used those picks wisely who knows where our ceiling would/could/shoulda been.

Blueflame
07-11-2008, 02:33 PM
I really don't want to ruin too much from the book - the author has been very generous with me. But there's a lot more behind the scenes than anyone realized.

Here's just a quick excerpt regarding that game:

Don't blame Jake, my teammates tell me, blame the coaches. "We didn't do one single ****ing thing from our preseason offense," Preston Parsons says. "We have the hardest, longest game plan you could imagine. They changed everything." That plus the noise in the St. Louis domed stadium and a bunch of dropped passes created an offensive breakdown.

This is not what this book is about. In fact, everything I've quoted comes from the epilogue afterward (the entire story takes place before and during training camp). It's Fatsis' way of catching up with the players he became closest with through his original experiences. Just FYI.

With all due respect to the book and its author, watching that game, it was quite clear that the problem was with execution; not coaching (playcalling/gameplanning)....

maher_tyler
07-11-2008, 02:38 PM
Exactly a near perfect 14 win season and then we waste picks on a postion that was not a need. If we hand used those picks wisely who knows where our ceiling would/could/shoulda been.

All this sarcasm i can't tell if your serious or not

vancejohnson82
07-11-2008, 02:39 PM
All this sarcasm i can't tell if your serious or not

I'm pretty sure Hotrod is serious...believe it or not

maher_tyler
07-11-2008, 02:45 PM
I'm pretty sure Hotrod is serious...believe it or not

Well with that...i'm glad we drafted who we did..so far i don't see any rookie QB since then till now that i would rather have drafted.

2KBack
07-11-2008, 02:46 PM
I'm pretty sure Hotrod is serious...believe it or not

I'm under the impression that Hotrod is simply weaving his masterpiece.

theAPAOps5
07-11-2008, 02:47 PM
I'm pretty sure that anyone who says they are pretty sure Hotrod is serious and mean it have not been around long enough. I would never use the term Hotrod and serious in the same sentence, EVER.

Northman
07-11-2008, 02:49 PM
I'm pretty sure Hotrod is serious...believe it or not

Dont count on it. Ha!

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 02:54 PM
I'm pretty sure Hotrod is serious...believe it or not

Serious I'll give you serious. The kid has failed to give any indication he has the ability to lead. He throws off his back foot like a pee wee qb for christs sake yet you want to crown his ass our saviour. While in the mean time the team has suffered. I dont get you man I really dont get you.

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 03:01 PM
This **** is wearing me out. I think I'll stop now and start the weekend early.

vancejohnson82
07-11-2008, 03:03 PM
back to the Cutler for Quinn trade then I guess....

Arkansas Bronco
07-11-2008, 03:17 PM
I'm pretty sure that anyone who says they are pretty sure Hotrod is serious and mean it have not been around long enough. I would never use the term Hotrod and serious in the same sentence, EVER.

Hell I have to break out the rep button now.

worm
07-11-2008, 03:17 PM
Dortoh is having survivor withdrawals

Kaylore
07-11-2008, 03:32 PM
I'm pretty sure Hotrod is serious...believe it or not

:spit:

bronco militia
07-11-2008, 03:34 PM
Dortoh is having survivor withdrawals

he's working on his game....

Taco John
07-11-2008, 03:36 PM
Keeping that act up has got to be exhasting...

Hotrod
07-11-2008, 03:39 PM
Keeping that act up has got to be exhasting...

Your not kidding.

You have no idea how hard it is to act stupid and retarded when your me. :pimp:

Arkansas Bronco
07-11-2008, 03:51 PM
Anyone here remember Noneubizwax and his trade thread? For anyone that hasnt read its a must read. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41982

Northman
07-11-2008, 04:01 PM
Anyone here remember Noneubizwax and his trade thread? For anyone that hasnt read its a must read. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41982

TJ at post #3 had me in hysterics and falling out of my chair. :rofl:

theAPAOps5
07-11-2008, 04:20 PM
I just snorted in my CAD class.

BroncoBuff
07-11-2008, 04:51 PM
Exactly a near perfect 14 win season and then we waste picks on a postion that was not a need. If we hand used those picks wisely who knows where our ceiling would/could/shoulda been.
I said the same thing leading up to that draft when people were talking Matt Leinart, I said no, we have other needs too.

At this point, it's pretty pointless discussion.

How about this: Last year I said trade two #1s to move up for Patrick Willis. Jarvis Moss I suppose could do without, but now that the other pick turned out to be Ryan Clady, I dunno ... ::)

Cito Pelon
07-11-2008, 04:53 PM
Why did Cutler fumble snaps when he first started? Because Shanny never had him work with the first team O that whole year.

So Shanny liked Jake so much, he didn't have Cutler work with the first-teamers at all that year until after T-day at KC.

So it's fair to say Cutler was not prepared to start. And it's fair to say Shanny gave up on the 2006 season at that point by starting a QB that had never taken a snap with the first-team O.

elsid13
07-11-2008, 05:05 PM
I really don't want to ruin too much from the book - the author has been very generous with me. But there's a lot more behind the scenes than anyone realized.

Here's just a quick excerpt regarding that game:

Don't blame Jake, my teammates tell me, blame the coaches. "We didn't do one single ****ing thing from our preseason offense," Preston Parsons says. "We have the hardest, longest game plan you could imagine. They changed everything." That plus the noise in the St. Louis domed stadium and a bunch of dropped passes created an offensive breakdown.

This is not what this book is about. In fact, everything I've quoted comes from the epilogue afterward (the entire story takes place before and during training camp). It's Fatsis' way of catching up with the players he became closest with through his original experiences. Just FYI.

I don't understand why Parson said that. It well know that Shanahan and staff develop "new" playbook every week to take advantage of match-ups on the field. Plus Shanahan use the preseason to experment and force other teams to prepare for formation and grouping that he never will use. Was that Parson first year with the team? Because he doesn't prove to be to bright with that comment.

lex
07-11-2008, 05:18 PM
Serious I'll give you serious. The kid has failed to give any indication he has the ability to lead. He throws off his back foot like a pee wee qb for christs sake yet you want to crown his ass our saviour. While in the mean time the team has suffered. I dont get you man I really dont get you.

Unbelievable. Your defending a 9 year veteran who threw an interception inside his own 25 WITH HIS LEFT HAND.

Arkansas Bronco
07-11-2008, 05:21 PM
Unbelievable. Your defending a 9 year veteran who threw an interception inside his own 25 WITH HIS LEFT HAND.

Well it was completed :rofl:

kmonty
07-11-2008, 05:30 PM
I don't understand why Parson said that. It well know that Shanahan and staff develop "new" playbook every week to take advantage of match-ups on the field. Plus Shanahan use the preseason to experment and force other teams to prepare for formation and grouping that he never will use. Was that Parson first year with the team? Because he doesn't prove to be to bright with that comment.

Parson's kind of pissed off through this whole story. You feel for him. All through training camp, he just wants to see the field. Van Pelt is choking horribly in front of him during preseason, and he's still not getting snaps. He has dreams of becoming an NFL starter and gets frustrated.

He's happy he makes the practice squad, but, to the theme of the book, a big part of him basically hates his job.

BroncoBuff
07-11-2008, 07:08 PM
Your not kidding.

You have no idea how hard it is to act stupid and retarded when your me. :pimp:
And here you had me defendng you ... I guess I wasn't just "acting" ::) Uhh

elsid13
07-11-2008, 07:27 PM
Parson's kind of pissed off through this whole story. You feel for him. All through training camp, he just wants to see the field. Van Pelt is choking horribly in front of him during preseason, and he's still not getting snaps. He has dreams of becoming an NFL starter and gets frustrated.

He's happy he makes the practice squad, but, to the theme of the book, a big part of him basically hates his job.

Life sucks, especial when you play a game for living.

elsid13
07-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Keeping that act up has got to be exhasting...

It the lack of sex, he has nothing better to do with his little brain. So he letting the little brain post it's football thoughts.

What funny is the people falling for it.....

ChampJesusBailey
07-12-2008, 09:10 AM
At best Plummer would have gotten us 10 wins that season. Wildcard round would be Patriots. Denver probably wins that one. Next week is San Diego. A likely loss. Even if that one is a win, next week is in Indianpolis. Colts wouldn't even suit Hunter Smith up as they win 56-21. It was obviously not going to be a Super Bowl season so might as well get the future started.

And because of that move we now have the best QB in the AFC West and for the first time since Elway retired the QB position isn't an issue. Now to just find a real RB so we aren't doing this stupid RB by committee every season, and get the defensive line working.

lex
07-12-2008, 09:20 AM
At best Plummer would have gotten us 10 wins that season. Wildcard round would be Patriots. Denver probably wins that one. Next week is San Diego. A likely loss. Even if that one is a win, next week is in Indianpolis. Colts wouldn't even suit Hunter Smith up as they win 56-21. It was obviously not going to be a Super Bowl season so might as well get the future started.

And because of that move we now have the best QB in the AFC West and for the first time since Elway retired the QB position isn't an issue. Now to just find a real RB so we aren't doing this stupid RB by committee every season, and get the defensive line working.

Our defense did a lot of heavy lifting early and kind of waned at the end and the offense under Plummer never really got going nor was there a reason to believe it would change. After having stellar defense early in the season, Denver needed the offense to step up and the best way for that to happen was to remove Plummer, which it did only initially it was going to take Cutler a little while to get his feet under him where the speed of the NFL game is concerned. Along those lines, we may have won the Seattle game with Plummer, but its also not a certainty we would have won the Arizona game, and the reality was that the threat Jay presented caused the defenses to defense more of the field and consequently opened up the running game. Cutler gave us the best chance to win in the playoffs but Plummer may have given us the best chance to get to the playoffs due to the initial breaking in period for Cutler. But since Denver is more about SBs than making the playoffs, Shanahan made the switch. And Im glad he did.

kmonty
07-12-2008, 11:03 AM
At best Plummer would have gotten us 10 wins that season. Wildcard round would be Patriots. Denver probably wins that one. Next week is San Diego. A likely loss. Even if that one is a win, next week is in Indianpolis. Colts wouldn't even suit Hunter Smith up as they win 56-21. It was obviously not going to be a Super Bowl season so might as well get the future started.

And because of that move we now have the best QB in the AFC West and for the first time since Elway retired the QB position isn't an issue. Now to just find a real RB so we aren't doing this stupid RB by committee every season, and get the defensive line working.

Rep. And welcome :welcome:

At the time though (right after the San Diego loss), I had convinced myself we still had a chance at the Super Bowl. The whole thing. Pats = we usually win. Chargers = Schottenheimer = Chokers. Colts = Manning = Choker (of course that wasn't the case).

Man was I delusional. :)

Jason in LA
07-12-2008, 11:50 AM
Serious I'll give you serious. The kid has failed to give any indication he has the ability to lead. He throws off his back foot like a pee wee qb for christs sake yet you want to crown his ass our saviour. While in the mean time the team has suffered. I dont get you man I really dont get you.

Cutler has been a better QB than Plummer. But Plummer had a better team around him. He had a running game and a run defense, which to me are two of the most important factors to winning. Give Cutler those two things and I'd say that the Broncos could win the Super Bowl. Cutler is that good. Plummer couldn't get it done with those two things.

There's really no telling what this team would be like if they didn't trade away picks for Cutler. You can't assume that those picks would have turned into great defensive linemen, and we don't even know if they would have even spent those picks there.

Once Shanahan rebuilds the O and D lines this team is going to go far. Shanahan has used the bulk of the draft picks over the past two years on the O and D lines. I loved that about those drafts.

They've got their QB, a stud WR, now it's just waiting for the new linemen to get up to speed.

But I'll tell you this, if they had stuck with Plummer it would have been more of the same. He sucked ass really bad in '06. He was pretty much done.

Memento
07-12-2008, 01:58 PM
It's the "moxie quotient" vs. the "open-the-playbook quotient" to me. If Plummer was moxie-man, he lost a chunk of it by being one of the worst pocket passers in the NFL (though, to his credit he was among the best at rolling out and throwing on the run). Poor Preston Parsons had the complicated task of learning our uber-complex "roll out left" and "roll out right" game-planning... and he thought that that was too overwhelming.

Pittsburgh exposed Plummers limitations for all to blue-print the following season.

When we drafted Cutler, guys like Steve Young and Mike Mayock were saying that -- finally -- the Broncos had a qb post-Elway who would allow them to work the playbook to its max.

Cutler's "moxie quotient" might have started off low, because he was replacing a very popular quarterback, and at first he didn't seem to fiery.

But that's the NFL -- you have to earn it, and it wasn't his team yet so it wasn't his place to get anybody's face.

I think within a very short time, Cultler will be "moxie man" to the degree that Plummer was -- he's already super-good on third down, finished the season ranked high despite sub-par talent, and has stared down the whole diabetes thing. I think even the older vets now have his back after the Fizzler/Phyllis fiasco.

This will soon be his team.

Oh, and as an added bonus, we get to run the full playbook. Cool!

Popps
07-12-2008, 02:13 PM
Cutler has been a better QB than Plummer. But Plummer had a better team around him. He had a running game and a run defense, which to me are two of the most important factors to winning. Give Cutler those two things and I'd say that the Broncos could win the Super Bowl. Cutler is that good. Plummer couldn't get it done with those two things.

See, this is where people lose it.

I'll sign on with Plummer having limited skills. Absolutely. I'll sign on with him having a poor game against Pittsburgh, absolutely.

But if you think we had any sort of defense that day, you clearly need to go back and watch the tape.

We gave up scores on EVERY SINGLE possession in the first half except the very last, even when we DID put them in bad field position. Our defense was an absolute abomination that day. It's as bad as I've seen us play in a post-season game since the Suerbowl disasters.

We couldn't stop ANYthing Pittsburgh threw at us... or ran at us. It was a ****ing disaster.

So, sure. Plummer had problems, Plummer had a bad game. But John Elway couldn't have won that game, much less Jay freakin' Cutler.

Our defense absolutely collapsed, just like they did against Indy over and over. Epic and complete collapses. I know we gave up a first half record for points against Indy, and I'd be shocked if we didn't surrender some kind of NFL record for the ass-kicking Pittsburgh's offense put on our defense that day.

So, bag on Plummer all you want. But, don't re-write history. Our defense sucked ass.

Inkana7
07-12-2008, 02:33 PM
Actually, our defense defended the run very well that game, and got the Steelers in a lot of 3rd and mid-to-long situations. 3rd down is where they sucked ass.

Jason in LA
07-12-2008, 02:45 PM
See, this is where people lose it.

I'll sign on with Plummer having limited skills. Absolutely. I'll sign on with him having a poor game against Pittsburgh, absolutely.

But if you think we had any sort of defense that day, you clearly need to go back and watch the tape.

We gave up scores on EVERY SINGLE possession in the first half except the very last, even when we DID put them in bad field position. Our defense was an absolute abomination that day. It's as bad as I've seen us play in a post-season game since the Suerbowl disasters.

We couldn't stop ANYthing Pittsburgh threw at us... or ran at us. It was a ****ing disaster.

So, sure. Plummer had problems, Plummer had a bad game. But John Elway couldn't have won that game, much less Jay freakin' Cutler.

Our defense absolutely collapsed, just like they did against Indy over and over. Epic and complete collapses. I know we gave up a first half record for points against Indy, and I'd be shocked if we didn't surrender some kind of NFL record for the ass-kicking Pittsburgh's offense put on our defense that day.

So, bag on Plummer all you want. But, don't re-write history. Our defense sucked ass.

I was not talking about one single game. I never even mentioned that game against the Steelers. Through most of Plummer's career with the Broncos they had a great running game and run defense. Obviously they didn't in the AFC Title game against the Steelers. That was never my point, so I am not re-writing history in any way. The run defense started to fall apart around the time the QB switch was made, and it has not been fixed yet.

(BTW, why did you even bother responding to my post? I thought I was rid of you a long time ago.)

dbroncos31
07-12-2008, 02:45 PM
That AFC Championship game was a team-wide suckjob. Blaming Plummer for everything is a stupid thing to do. As Popps says, the defense forgot to show up in that game, and the OL was awful as well. I remember Plummer's first-half fumble was when Porter and Farrior BOTH came in on him untouched.

Anyways, we should have known that the gods were against us after that Champ near-pick 6 that turned into a Steeler first down. If Ward doesn't interfere with Bailey we roll in that game, as that year we were nearly unbeatable with an early lead.

Popps
07-12-2008, 02:54 PM
The run defense started to fall apart around the time the QB switch was made, and it has not been fixed yet.

Right, but your indication was that we would have "won a Superbowl" with Cutler at QB.

So, if you want to retract that, have at it. I guess you're just not sure what you meant.


(BTW, why did you even bother responding to my post? I thought I was rid of you a long time ago.)

Don't post silly ****, then.

Merlin
07-12-2008, 05:19 PM
That said, even if Plummer was playing well... we didn't have a real defense.
When Plummer got benched he was still the better QB. However, I wanted him benched two games before he got benched. It was clear the defence stank, and we had already seen all that we would see from Plummer. It was time to start developing Cutler. I really could not care less about not making the playoffs (although some of Cutler's "plays" drove me crazy), I cared more about 2-3 yrs down the line. We are now 2 yrs down the line and Denver is beginning to look very good, and as Reverend stated, there is no way Cutler looks half as good without the baptism by fire in his first season (competing for a playoff spot with a lousy D backing you up). I have had my doubts about Sundquist for a couple of years now, and his comment that Plummer should have been kept tells me all that he knows about football...butkus. As to his mouth, that is clear insubordination and he is lucky he didn't get his a$$ fired then.

400HZ
07-12-2008, 05:31 PM
I'm surprised that people were so taken aback when Plummer sucked in 2006. The organization basically cut his balls off when they drafted Cutler, so what do you expect? An emotional guy like Plummer is not going to dedicate himself to the game when he knows that the head honchos don't even want him around anymore.

Inkana7
07-12-2008, 05:35 PM
I'm surprised that people were so taken aback when Plummer sucked in 2006. The organization basically cut his balls off when they drafted Cutler, so what do you expect? An emotional guy like Plummer is not going to dedicate himself to the game when he knows that the head honchos don't even want him around anymore.

Joe Montana won two Championships after Steve Young was brought in. Drew Brees went to the pro bowl after Rivers was drafted.

Cito Pelon
07-12-2008, 05:45 PM
Cutler has been a better QB than Plummer. But Plummer had a better team around him. He had a running game and a run defense, which to me are two of the most important factors to winning. Give Cutler those two things and I'd say that the Broncos could win the Super Bowl. Cutler is that good. Plummer couldn't get it done with those two things.

There's really no telling what this team would be like if they didn't trade away picks for Cutler. You can't assume that those picks would have turned into great defensive linemen, and we don't even know if they would have even spent those picks there.

Once Shanahan rebuilds the O and D lines this team is going to go far. Shanahan has used the bulk of the draft picks over the past two years on the O and D lines. I loved that about those drafts.

They've got their QB, a stud WR, now it's just waiting for the new linemen to get up to speed.

But I'll tell you this, if they had stuck with Plummer it would have been more of the same. He sucked ass really bad in '06. He was pretty much done.

2006 was pretty fun on this board with the Jake Vs. Jay stuff. It's also pretty funny now to see how many people revise their history to rag on Sundquist when Shanny - the VP of the team - stuck with Jake to the tune of not letting Jay take any first-team snaps all year until after T-day at KC. So Sundy didn't like the move, so what? Shanny called all shots in 2006, Shanny decided Jake was The Man until T-day at KC. Shanny knew damn well that Cutler was not ready to take the reins, because Shanny decided from day one that Jake was gonna take all the reps with the first-teamers in practice. Jay never took a snap from Nalen in his entire rookie season til after T-day at KC.

I can see how people can get on Sundy for not being on the same page as Shanny, so maybe Sundy was pissed Shanny hadn't prepared Cutler to take the reins? I'll have to read the book, I guess.

Cito Pelon
07-12-2008, 05:55 PM
Actually, our defense defended the run very well that game, and got the Steelers in a lot of 3rd and mid-to-long situations. 3rd down is where they sucked ass.

And the super-hero Champ Bailey gave up two TD's, missed a sure pick-six. Gawd, that was a horrible day. Trevor Pryce said after that game "I knew we would lose as soon as I walked on the field." A game that would decide who had the most AFC Championships, and Denver was never in the game from the opening whistle, that was a horrible day. Just venting still, carry on.

orange 4 life
07-12-2008, 05:57 PM
They would've won that game with Jake playing.

We would've gone to the playoffs with Jake playing.

...but we'd be in a significantly worse situation TODAY had Jake finished that year.

six pages later, this is the easy summation.

i dont know about "significantly," but "worse" is fair.
bottom line is as soon as the team DRAFTED cutler they made it clear that there wasnt a long term commitment to plummer, and with that in mind, getting cutler reps asap was prudent for the future.
hasnt got us anywhere yet, but hopefully the renewed health will make the difference this year and really get him on track.

jake

Jason in LA
07-12-2008, 06:46 PM
Right, but your indication was that we would have "won a Superbowl" with Cutler at QB.

So, if you want to retract that, have at it. I guess you're just not sure what you meant.



Don't post silly ****, then.

When I actually had a dialog with you, which I haven't in some time now, I would always question your intelligence. Well, that's putting it nicely. I would call you a dumbass. You always proved me right. And you have proved me right once again.

I never at anytime mentioned anything about the Broncos winning the Super Bowl after the '05 season. I never mentioned the AFC Title game against the Steelers. I never implied in any way that if that '05 team had Jay Cutler that they would have won that game.

You, the dumbass, who has never been able to understand a person's point, thought that I was talking about that. So you go on some long rant about something that I wasn't even talking about.

My point is that if the Broncos could give Cutler a running game and run defense like Plummer had, like they have had for most of Shanahan's tenure, that they could win a Super Bowl. I'm talking about the future. Not the past. Not the Super Bowl after the '05 season. I never said or implied anything about that game.

Once again, you are a dumbass. Please do not respond to any more of my posts. Thank you.

Cito Pelon
07-12-2008, 06:56 PM
When Plummer got benched he was still the better QB. However, I wanted him benched two games before he got benched. It was clear the defence stank, and we had already seen all that we would see from Plummer. It was time to start developing Cutler. I really could not care less about not making the playoffs (although some of Cutler's "plays" drove me crazy), I cared more about 2-3 yrs down the line. We are now 2 yrs down the line and Denver is beginning to look very good, and as Reverend stated, there is no way Cutler looks half as good without the baptism by fire in his first season (competing for a playoff spot with a lousy D backing you up). I have had my doubts about Sundquist for a couple of years now, and his comment that Plummer should have been kept tells me all that he knows about football...butkus. As to his mouth, that is clear insubordination and he is lucky he didn't get his a$$ fired then.

So Shanny was an idiot to keep Jake starting in 2006? You imply it, say it.

watermock
07-12-2008, 07:47 PM
.did Favre roll over when GB drafted Rodgers in the first round? Jake crumbled when he kept looking over his shoulder rather than downfield.

BTW, I called for Plummers benching 2 weeks before Shanahan pulled the plug. Plummer sucked constantly since the Pittsburg game, no matter what the defense did.

If we didnt draft Cutler when we did, who? when? Our position and timing was right.

I dont care if Jake was alpha dog, he was a mutt after we drafted Jay, he curled up and whimpered silently away.

watermock
07-12-2008, 07:55 PM
the plan was to play Jake in 06 and let Jay mature, but Jake started falling apart.

thumpc
07-12-2008, 08:00 PM
....or Brees when Rivers was drafted.

Popps
07-12-2008, 10:46 PM
When I actually had a dialog with you, which I haven't in some time now, I would always question your intelligence. Well, that's putting it nicely. I would call you a dumbass. You always proved me right. And you have proved me right once again. [/B]

Gosh, I'm all torn up. I barely know who you are. I think you're the guy who can't get laid so he talks about it all the time? I do remember you defending anyone of color who commits a crime as absolutely incapable of being guilty, and oh... terrible football takes.

So, I'm going to lose sleep over that post, boss.

I never implied in any way that if that '05 team had Jay Cutler that they would have won that game.
. [/B]

Ohhh... so you were saying that Plummer couldn't win with absolute defensive collapses in every playoff games, but Jay Cutler would?

I take it back, you are smart.

You're right, if Cutler had a "great" defense like the ones that gave up playoff records for you-****ing-name-it, Jay would win a Superbowl... in the future.
Hilarious!


Please do not respond to any more of my posts. Thank you.

Put me on ignore, junior. I'll respond to what I feel like responding to.

Your posts are usually dull, but some are so comically bad, they need attention.

Jason in LA
07-12-2008, 10:57 PM
Gosh, I'm all torn up. I barely know who you are. I think you're the guy who can't get laid so he talks about it all the time? I do remember you defending anyone of color who commits a crime as absolutely incapable of being guilty, and oh... terrible football takes.

So, I'm going to lose sleep over that post, boss.



Ohhh... so you were saying that Plummer couldn't win with absolute defensive collapses in every playoff games, but Jay Cutler would?

I take it back, you are smart.

You're right, if Cutler had a "great" defense like the ones that gave up playoff records for you-****ing-name-it, Jay would win a Superbowl... in the future.
Hilarious!




Put me on ignore, junior. I'll respond to what I feel like responding to.

Your posts are usually dull, but some are so comically bad, they need attention.

Like I've said many times. You are a dumbass. You are exaggerating my past points, which have nothing to do with this debate, and now you are making points that have nothing to do with this argument, and you are making points that you have no way of knowing if they are true or not. That's a way of avoiding the debate at hand.

You misunderstood what I was saying. It's as simple as that. All you had to do was back off when I gave a further explanation. Instead we have to go through all this crap because you misunderstood my point. This is all silly. You are a silly person.

A while back somebody, who will remain nameless, left me this message in a rep, "Popps is a dumb ass. He's also the most negative whiney tool box there is around here." So I'm not the only one who thinks you are a dumbass. The points that you have made in while replying to me is just more proof that you are a dumbass. When you are in a ditch stop digging.

Merlin
07-12-2008, 11:02 PM
So Shanny was an idiot to keep Jake starting in 2006? You imply it, say it.
That is some poor reading comprehension Cito. Where do I imply that Shanny is an idiot. All I stated was that I was hoping Jake was benched a couple of games before he actually got benched, and that was mostly due to the very poor defence, not because I thought that at that moment in time Cutler was a better QB than Plummer, but because [/b]in time[/b] he would be better than Plummer. That is, Cutler needed to be groomed with actual playing time, and since the defence had become horrendous, it made more sense for the team not to concern itself with the playoffs, and instead concern itself with developing the team of the future. I know you got the hate thing going with Shanny, but no need to attribute it to others.

Popps
07-12-2008, 11:02 PM
A while back somebody, who will remain nameless, left me this message in a rep, "Popps is a dumb ass. .

LOL

OMG! You mean someone might not be my BFF!!?!?

WhatEVER! Wait until I tell everyone at recess you said this!

:rofl:

Now I won't sleep for a month. Someone at the Orangemane doesn't like me. Maybe I should post pictures of butts or myself and talk about how I can't get laid.

Dude, you keep posting ****ty football takes and trying to dig yourself out of them. I'll keep laughing at you.

Cito Pelon
07-12-2008, 11:56 PM
That is some poor reading comprehension Cito. Where do I imply that Shanny is an idiot. All I stated was that I was hoping Jake was benched a couple of games before he actually got benched, and that was mostly due to the very poor defence, not because I thought that at that moment in time Cutler was a better QB than Plummer, but because [/b]in time[/b] he would be better than Plummer. That is, Cutler needed to be groomed with actual playing time, and since the defence had become horrendous, it made more sense for the team not to concern itself with the playoffs, and instead concern itself with developing the team of the future. I know you got the hate thing going with Shanny, but no need to attribute it to others.

Well, I figured if you were ahead of Shanny in calling for Cutler to start, then Shanny is an idiot. I guess you straightened me out. My fault. I do get pretty confused about how Shanny is great here, and f's up there, and is better than Reeves here, but Elway made Reeves, but Elway didn't make Shanny great, it's all pretty confusing.

Jason in LA
07-13-2008, 12:15 AM
LOL

OMG! You mean someone might not be my BFF!!?!?

WhatEVER! Wait until I tell everyone at recess you said this!

:rofl:

Now I won't sleep for a month. Someone at the Orangemane doesn't like me. Maybe I should post pictures of butts or myself and talk about how I can't get laid.

Dude, you keep posting ****ty football takes and trying to dig yourself out of them. I'll keep laughing at you.

unlike you I can actually understand what peoples points are and I don't have to go way off topic with wild assumptions. This whole thing started because you were too stupid to understand my point and went on a rant about a game that I wasn't even talking about. Why don't you just admit you were wrong? Or do you actually believe that you were right? its funny that you aren't even arguing the point anymore. You're just making up stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the debate. You have to be the dumbest member on this board. You have done nothing to prove that point wrong.

Popps
07-13-2008, 12:38 AM
. This whole thing started because you were too stupid to understand my point and went on a rant about a game that I wasn't even talking about. g.

Again, keep crapping yourself and then trying to clean it up.

You used JAKE PLUMMER'S TEAM as a DIRECT comparison, saying that if Cutler had THAT team, he could win a Superbowl.

Then you modified it into... well, if he had a great running game and a great defense.

Well, he had a ****TY defense all playoff games except one, which we won.

You also said "Cutler has been better than Plummer." Interesting statement.
Got any facts to back that up? I think he will BE better. Thus far, he hasn't proven anything except that he's got potential, which we knew.

You said if Cutler had what Plummer had, he'd win Superbowls. That's an ignorant enough statement to make any decent Bronco fan question whether or not you've ever watched any of our games. You clearly missed ALL of our playoff losses to say some **** like that.

So, again... you crapped the bed and now you're angry because someone called you out on it. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen that around here.

Anyhoo... you were supposed to put me on ignore, right?

:rofl:

Cito Pelon
07-13-2008, 12:39 AM
.did Favre roll over when GB drafted Rodgers in the first round? Jake crumbled when he kept looking over his shoulder rather than downfield.

BTW, I called for Plummers benching 2 weeks before Shanahan pulled the plug. Plummer sucked constantly since the Pittsburg game, no matter what the defense did.

If we didnt draft Cutler when we did, who? when? Our position and timing was right.

I dont care if Jake was alpha dog, he was a mutt after we drafted Jay, he curled up and whimpered silently away.

Yeah, well, Shanny didn't have the balls to do so.

Ironlung
07-13-2008, 12:42 AM
The two of you are both from L.A.?...Fight! Fight! Fight!

Kaylore
07-13-2008, 12:42 AM
Good grief, this thread is still going?

Popps
07-13-2008, 12:49 AM
Good grief, this thread is still going?

;D

Cito Pelon
07-13-2008, 12:50 AM
Gosh, I'm all torn up. I barely know who you are. I think you're the guy who can't get laid so he talks about it all the time? I do remember you defending anyone of color who commits a crime as absolutely incapable of being guilty, and oh... terrible football takes.

So, I'm going to lose sleep over that post, boss.



Ohhh... so you were saying that Plummer couldn't win with absolute defensive collapses in every playoff games, but Jay Cutler would?

I take it back, you are smart.

You're right, if Cutler had a "great" defense like the ones that gave up playoff records for you-****ing-name-it, Jay would win a Superbowl... in the future.
Hilarious!




Put me on ignore, junior. I'll respond to what I feel like responding to.

Your posts are usually dull, but some are so comically bad, they need attention.

WTF, does TJ pay you two? I'll chime in, but I have to get paid. I can do this stuff, wait and see. You two are bums compared to what I can do. Challenge me and see what happens.

Popps
07-13-2008, 12:58 AM
WTF, does TJ pay you two? I'll chime in, but I have to get paid. I can do this stuff, wait and see. You two are bums compared to what I can do. Challenge me and see what happens.

I'm afraid if I challenge you, I'll get some rational, sensible responses from a guy who's watched some football.

What fun would that be.

The train-wreck stuff is better. :thumbsup:

KipCorrington25
07-13-2008, 12:59 AM
Plummer sucked, if Sundquist supported him it's good he's gone. Simple as.

Kaylore
07-13-2008, 01:08 AM
WTF, does TJ pay you two? I'll chime in, but I have to get paid. I can do this stuff, wait and see. You two are bums compared to what I can do. Challenge me and see what happens.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5246/forumwarsbg6.jpg

Cito Pelon
07-13-2008, 01:10 AM
I'm afraid if I challenge you, I'll get some rational, sensible responses from a guy who's watched some football.

What fun would that be.

The train-wreck stuff is better. :thumbsup:

Jason is fairly rational, so are you, you two got into it and that's fine. Howsomever, I'm warning you both right now if you get into it with me, I'll tear you a new one. Neither of you punks can compete with THE KING. And I don't mean that in an arrogant sense, it's just the truth.

Popps
07-13-2008, 01:18 AM
Jason is fairly rational, so are you, you two got into it and that's fine. Howsomever, I'm warning you both right now if you get into it with me, I'll tear you a new one. Neither of you punks can compete with THE KING. And I don't mean that in an arrogant sense, it's just the truth.

You're good, but you'd be better if you took my course. It's a 9 DVD set series.
3 easy payments of just 19.95, plus $95 shipping and handling.

Northman
07-13-2008, 01:24 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/432850780_4c35fb9724.jpg?v=0

Sassy
07-13-2008, 01:27 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/432850780_4c35fb9724.jpg?v=0

Pez ???

Northman
07-13-2008, 01:30 AM
Pez ???

http://home.nc.rr.com/scaredvanilla/internet.jpg

Cito Pelon
07-13-2008, 01:33 AM
You're good, but you'd be better if you took my course. It's a 9 DVD set series.
3 easy payments of just 19.95, plus $95 shipping and handling.

What? THE KING doesn't play internet slinky. You send me money, That's the game, sidewinder.

Popps
07-13-2008, 01:36 AM
What? THE KING doesn't play internet slinky. You send me money, That's the game, sidewinder.

That's fine, but just be prepared for a lot of this kind of thing...

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9935/pwned3b4627fej9.jpg

400HZ
07-13-2008, 01:45 AM
Joe Montana won two Championships after Steve Young was brought in. Drew Brees went to the pro bowl after Rivers was drafted.

Steve Young came in because Joe was getting old. Rivers came in because Drew had a horrendous 2003 season. Jay came in after Jake Plummer had played the best season of his career.

DomCasual
07-13-2008, 01:48 AM
But at the end of the day, Cutler hasnt either AND the team doesn't have confidence in him. He has yet to exert his leadership and get the team to truly believe in him.

Well, let's see.

He played half of the year with diabetes, and lost 35 lbs in the process. I would have to do some digging, but I know I've read near awe-inspired quotes from his teammates regarding that.

He spent a month in Atlanta with two of his key offensive teammates, working on his own time.

He publicly called out Brandon Marshall over his immaturity.

Yeah, this kid is an immature punk. I'm sure his teammates hate him. Elway was the same way. ::)

DomCasual
07-13-2008, 01:52 AM
And yete the gaje way stiil over at halftime even with 5 yards a carry. Cutler was able ot pad gis stats in the 3rd but then he din't do **** in the 4th. Pretty standard.

I realize I am reading this thread pretty late into the process, but what in the sam hell are you talking about here?

You posted it at 11:30 PM. You must have been drinking for, what, about four hours by then? ???

Cito Pelon
07-13-2008, 02:00 AM
That's fine, but just be prepared for a lot of this kind of thing...

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9935/pwned3b4627fej9.jpg

Lucky for you and Jason I didn't have to bring my A game. However, it's primed and ready when you two punks really want to go at it. It's fine you two practiced on each other, when you two want to compete with THE KING, let me know.

BroncosinDC
07-13-2008, 01:55 PM
After reading most of the book I'd have to say if I was a QB in the league I would be a Plummer kind of guy. "They didn't ask me, if they did I'd have said go ahead do whatever you want" Him bitching about the fans in Denver hating on him, and him saying he thinks they can live "with crusty old me and 13-3" I now understand he just wanted to win, but he was pissed about Jay, pissed about the way he was treated by Denver fans. He thought it was stupid for us to compare everyone to Elway. He went to humane shelters to walk dogs. He swears a lot. He went off on a rant about how the game has given him so much money he could never spend it all even if he developed a drug problem bought stupid ****, and threw money in the street. He said he will not be seen or heard from when he retires.

Jake is a bad ass, maybe not the best QB but one cool son of a bitch. He didn't love football in the NFL anymore that is evident from the book, he said he wanted to maybe coach high school where it is pure. Jake didn't give a **** anymore, it was the fans fault, the NFL's culture, Mike's drafting of Jay. Can we beat some other horse? Did you know Javon Walker was a D-bag?

theAPAOps5
07-13-2008, 02:23 PM
This thread is about the gayest thread I have ever seen.

Oh Jake ain't a bad ass. He is the same guy who rear ended someone and took off.

Jason in LA
07-13-2008, 06:13 PM
Again, keep crapping yourself and then trying to clean it up.

You used JAKE PLUMMER'S TEAM as a DIRECT comparison, saying that if Cutler had THAT team, he could win a Superbowl.

Then you modified it into... well, if he had a great running game and a great defense.

Well, he had a ****TY defense all playoff games except one, which we won.

You also said "Cutler has been better than Plummer." Interesting statement.
Got any facts to back that up? I think he will BE better. Thus far, he hasn't proven anything except that he's got potential, which we knew.

You said if Cutler had what Plummer had, he'd win Superbowls. That's an ignorant enough statement to make any decent Bronco fan question whether or not you've ever watched any of our games. You clearly missed ALL of our playoff losses to say some **** like that.

So, again... you crapped the bed and now you're angry because someone called you out on it. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen that around here.

Anyhoo... you were supposed to put me on ignore, right?

:rofl:

Bottom line is that you were wrong. You brought up a game that I wasn't talking about. After I explained that I wasn't talking about that game all you had to do was just back off and we wouldn't go through all this crap. Now you are trying to spin it all kind of ways to hide the fact that you were wrong. Again I'll ask, why did you even bother responding to my post? Why open this BS back up again? When I see you post something, whether I agree with it or not, I don't respond. I don't care to respond to anything that you say on this board. Why don't you just leave it alone?

broncosteven
07-13-2008, 06:57 PM
Who set the OM Wayback machine for 2006?

We are in 2008. Plummer is not coming back boys.

Lets Beat on the Griese dead horse for a while.

broncocalijohn
07-13-2008, 07:00 PM
All i read from this thread was that 400HZ brought the wino in him to drunk posting. Check his posts from that night.....classic.

400HZ
07-13-2008, 11:21 PM
All i read from this thread was that 400HZ brought the wino in him to drunk posting. Check his posts from that night.....classic.

Eh I forgot to shut my computer off before I went out.

When I get home and it's sitting there on my bed glowing at me I can't help but peruse my email and maybe a couple forums. :alky:

BroncoBuff
07-14-2008, 12:56 AM
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5246/forumwarsbg6.jpg
:thumbs:

BroncoBuff
07-14-2008, 01:09 AM
A while back somebody left me this message in a rep, "Popps is a dumb ass. .

LOL

OMG! You mean someone might not be my BFF!!?!?

WhatEVER! Wait until I tell everyone at recess you said this!

:rofl:

Now I won't sleep for a month. Someone at the Orangemane doesn't like me. Maybe I should post pictures of butts or myself and talk about how I can't get laid.

Dude, you keep posting ****ty football takes and trying to dig yourself out of them. I'll keep laughing at you.

When two Los Angeles-based male models get ito a cat-fight like this, the best thing we can do is just clear out.







:~ohyah!:

Popps
07-14-2008, 01:35 AM
When two Los Angeles-based male models get ito a cat-fight like this, the best thing we can do is just clear out.







:~ohyah!:

Watch it, dude. I will drop Blue Steel on your ass in a heartbeat.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/zoolander.jpg

BroncoBuff
07-14-2008, 03:25 PM
Rofl!

broncosteven
02-04-2009, 07:49 PM
From Stefan Fatsis' just-released A Few Seconds of Panic:

I watch the [Seattle] game with Ted Sundquist and his staff, and it's clear to me they don't agree with the change. A few weeks earlier, Sundquist had told me he didn't feel Jake was the sole reason for the offense's poor play. On Cutler's first series, the Broncos run three plays and punt. "Same result," someone says. When Cutler fumbles a snap, Sundquist remarks, "He did that about three times in practice." Someone else replies, "I heard six." Then, as he is hit by a defensive lineman, Cutler wings the ball blindly into the air. It's intercepted and returned for a touchdown. Pens and binoculars fly in our box high above the field....

In the locker room afterward, Cutler tells Jake that the team would have won had he been playing.

-
Fatsis interviews Jake the next day, and Plummer is pretty candid about his feelings on the whole thing (he's beyond pissed off).

If you haven't gotten a copy yet, I highly recommend it. It's a great read in and of itself, but it's just got all these extra details Broncos fans will be appreciate. I'll be posting a full book review today on BroncoTalk and will
also have a Q&A with the author a bit later.

I haven't got that far in the book yet, I am only past the pictures at the 1st PS game vs Detroit.

That said this is really a great read and I am going to buy his other book WordFreak.

BTW I did read the chapter that covered Jake not making the effort to go to all the OTA's and lead the team that offseason he did make 85% if I remember correctly. That is what prompted Shanny to draft Cutler and make the change.

That is the best and most concise description of why Plummer was benched and quit. He lost the heart for football and it showed.

Taco John
02-04-2009, 10:10 PM
Man, when I get busy at work, I miss all the fun.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2009, 10:16 PM
I haven't got that far in the book yet, I am only past the pictures at the 1st PS game vs Detroit.

That said this is really a great read and I am going to buy his other book WordFreak.

BTW I did read the chapter that covered Jake not making the effort to go to all the OTA's and lead the team that offseason he did make 85% if I remember correctly. That is what prompted Shanny to draft Cutler and make the change.

That is the best and most concise description of why Plummer was benched and quit. He lost the heart for football and it showed.

I officially love this forum. I have tried for two months to recommend this book to everyone on the BroncosCountry forums, and every time I get shut down.

Amazing to see people who read. Guess what? Being a football fan and being a reader of literature are not mutually exclusive.

tsiguy96
02-04-2009, 10:26 PM
i dont think jake was ever mad at jay at anytime however. how could he be, jay didnt choose to come here or bench plummer, he just played. i think we can all agree that shanny ruined 06 for the development of cutler, who knows what would have happened had he kept plummer in, or if cutler had more on the bench time. who cares really, its all in the past.

Florida_Bronco
02-04-2009, 10:28 PM
Amazing to see people who read. Guess what? Being a football fan and being a reader of literature are not mutually exclusive.

Amen. I love to read.

Pontius Pirate
02-05-2009, 09:51 AM
Jay will always be a better QB, but no way will Jay ever be cooler than this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Jake_Plummer__DF-SD-01-03810.JPEG

I mean, cmon:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/CutlerPenn.JPG

bronco militia
02-05-2009, 11:05 AM
:wave:

Kaylore
02-05-2009, 01:15 PM
Popps saying Plummer is better than Cutler. :~ohyah!: