View Full Version : Pre-season Draft Grade by National Services
elsid13
07-05-2008, 08:33 AM
OK this site claims to have from both services first ratings of the year- National and Blesto -
(Nice write up on the Denver Draft to)
http://www.tfydraft.com/index.php
Some interest tidbits Oher get a 2nd round grade, (national)
The top one by position
WR (national)Louis Murphy Florida
WR Brian Robiskie Ohio State(Blesto)
DT (N)Terrance Taylor Michigan
DT (B) Alex Magee Purdue
OT (N) Eugene Monroe Virginia
OT (B)Eugene Monroe Virginia
OLB (N)Aaron Curry Wake Forest
OLB (B) Aaron Curry Wake Forest
ILB (N)Dannell Ellerbe Georgia
ILB (B) Rey Maualuga USC
SpringStein
07-06-2008, 03:55 AM
At this time, DT looks pretty weak for '09. :(
Requiem
07-06-2008, 04:42 PM
Sucks doesn't it Spring? BTW -- how have you been bud? Long time no talk.
NFLBRONCO
07-06-2008, 05:53 PM
At this time, DT looks pretty weak for '09. :(
Luckily not our only need we have here :wave:
elsid13
07-06-2008, 06:34 PM
It still extremely early. No one knows what senior has finally had it click on, or what JR finally gets his chance to start full time.
NFLBRONCO
07-06-2008, 10:08 PM
S is my #1 target in 09. I'd be cool going OL RB DT MLB as well.
If we draft 1-10, I want Maualuga
If we draft 10-15, I would like Denver to draft Mays
If we draft in the bottom half, Im hoping we take Duke Robinson.
socalorado
07-07-2008, 09:18 AM
For LEX. Footballs right around the corner.
http://www.wearescmedia.com/Photos/2006_04_09_Spring_Huddle/images/Huddle06_0670.jpg
For LEX. Footballs right around the corner.
http://www.wearescmedia.com/Photos/2006_04_09_Spring_Huddle/images/Huddle06_0670.jpg
It would be great to draft him but I dont think we'll be drafting that high.
Nah, unfortunately Cutler will be too good for us to finish inside the top 10... he's the only thing saving us. I'm going to assume that Torain will end up splitting then starting before the end of the season and will actually be good once his foot is totally healed.
We have depth at WR but who knows whats up with Brandon Marshall.... honestly though, I don't ever think we should over pay or over draft for a WR again. TOO many busts too often. Plus in Shanny's west coast offense, it will never be more than an 160 catches to go around towardst he WR's. So that leaves these positions as our positions of need.
OL (one more OT, OG/C), DT, MLB, S.
ohiobronco2
07-07-2008, 03:24 PM
I can't wait to see how some of our young guys play this year, especially on the lines. That will determine where we go in the next draft. For as deep as the offensive line class was in this latest draft, it appears that next years is also pretty solid. Oher, Boone, Smith, Robinson, Mack, Loadholt. Gonna be some good offensive linemen in this draft. As somebody has already stated, I don't know if there will be any solid DT's that will be available. Safety should be load and MLB at the very top will be solid. Can't wait.
elsid13
07-07-2008, 04:28 PM
Loadholt got his ass busted for drunk driving, last week. Who knows if he will play this year
Nah, unfortunately Cutler will be too good for us to finish inside the top 10... he's the only thing saving us. I'm going to assume that Torain will end up splitting then starting before the end of the season and will actually be good once his foot is totally healed.
We have depth at WR but who knows whats up with Brandon Marshall.... honestly though, I don't ever think we should over pay or over draft for a WR again. TOO many busts too often. Plus in Shanny's west coast offense, it will never be more than an 160 catches to go around towardst he WR's. So that leaves these positions as our positions of need.
OL (one more OT, OG/C), DT, MLB, S.
Good post, except I think too many people put too much faith in Torain. Otherwise, I agree on Cutler...or am at least hopeful that he becomes that difference maker this year. Im also on board with the WR thing.
socalorado
07-07-2008, 09:59 PM
Well LEX, then this guy is just fine!
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/76690261.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1932A9B55D9B9C7D68DB6DBB412A7935A9B 284831B75F48EF45
socalorado
07-07-2008, 10:11 PM
I am actually kinda hoping that Barrett works out, and DEN can pass on Mays. Only to grab the real hitman from USC. If DEN could get Maualuga in the 1st, and grab Ellison in the 2nd, jeez, that would be a sweet 2 rounds.
http://www.petecarroll.com/petecarroll/CMS/News%20Images/0320kevinellisonbig.jpg
Well LEX, then this guy is just fine!
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/76690261.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1932A9B55D9B9C7D68DB6DBB412A7935A9B 284831B75F48EF45
Im hoping we take Robinson because Im hoping we draft in the bottom half of Rd 1. You dont often see OGs with 1st round grades. I realize its not considered to be as important as OT but still, if your a team that has had red zone struggles, there should be a premium on someone like Robinson. Id like
Robinson, Chung/Ellison, McKillop, and a DT.
Good post, except I think too many people put too much faith in Torain. Otherwise, I agree on Cutler...or am at least hopeful that he becomes that difference maker this year. Im also on board with the WR thing.
http://sundevilpride.com/gamehighlights.cfm?video=885&key=15
There's some good footage of Torain in there, especially in the OSU game where he caught a couple TD passes and bursted up the middle for a 55 yd scamper, something you can expect to see him do in Denver.
I have to disagree with you about him though. The only thing which will hold him back IMO is either S. Young blowing up or his foot continueing to be an issue.
He runs hard, down hill, and is willing to throw a shoulder into a defender to finish a run... still, the player that he reminds me of is a poor man's Clinton Portis. He lacks the jitter bug nature but I see the quickness slicing through the hole and the ability to affect the passing game just the same way.
As I said before, I'm tempered only by his foot injury. All else considered, I think he could be a pretty big surprise for us this year.
Well LEX, then this guy is just fine!
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/76690261.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1932A9B55D9B9C7D68DB6DBB412A7935A9B 284831B75F48EF45
The guy suits up well.
http://sundevilpride.com/gamehighlights.cfm?video=885&key=15
There's some good footage of Torain in there, especially in the OSU game where he caught a couple TD passes and bursted up the middle for a 55 yd scamper, something you can expect to see him do in Denver.
I have to disagree with you about him though. The only thing which will hold him back IMO is either S. Young blowing up or his foot continueing to be an issue.
He runs hard, down hill, and is willing to throw a shoulder into a defender to finish a run... still, the player that he reminds me of is a poor man's Clinton Portis. He lacks the jitter bug nature but I see the quickness slicing through the hole and the ability to affect the passing game just the same way.
As I said before, I'm tempered only by his foot injury. All else considered, I think he could be a pretty big surprise for us this year.
Bleh. Again, he's bargain basement. And since he ran over a 4.5, I realize Denver fans will love him. Yeah, he could be a surprise but thats been pretty much every RB we've had, not named Portis. A waste of a pick.
That's the best part about this time of year, everybody can speculate. We'll see how it goes.
I will say, I am on-board for more OLine though. It would be awesome if we could add one more player to this line either at OT, OG, or OC. I've been watching a lot of the players coming out. Most recently Luigs (SIC?) and Mack from Cal. I probably like Mack a little bit better because the guy rips open holes for the running game, the only problem is ducks his head like crazy and that could get him in trouble on the next level. I'd probably only have a 2nd round grade on him though which is about right for a center. I think we could take a chance on a guy like that and use him like we did Hamilton... (natural center gets moved outside to guard).
Mediator12
07-08-2008, 08:14 AM
OK this site claims to have from both services first ratings of the year- National and Blesto -
(Nice write up on the Denver Draft to)
http://www.tfydraft.com/index.php
Some interest tidbits Oher get a 2nd round grade, (national)
The top one by position
WR (national)Louis Murphy Florida
WR Brian Robiskie Ohio State(Blesto)
DT (N)Terrance Taylor Michigan
DT (B) Alex Magee Purdue
OT (N) Eugene Monroe Virginia
OT (B)Eugene Monroe Virginia
OLB (N)Aaron Curry Wake Forest
OLB (B) Aaron Curry Wake Forest
ILB (N)Dannell Ellerbe Georgia
ILB (B) Rey Maualuga USC
I am surprised Fili Moala and Jeff Owens are not on this list at DT. Moala was the best overall DT I saw on film last year. That includes Dorsey and his teammate Sedrick Ellis. Also, Owens popped out on film after watching Marcus Howard get one on one's when he was doubled.
Magee is playing a DT/DE tweener role for Purdue right now and may project to LDE in the Pros. Terrance Taylor is another stout little NT. Not much all around game, but he is impressive versus the run. Overall, this class is about four deep of players that might be able to help right away, with a few more hopefully developing and a few underclassmen being motivated by talk of changing the rookie salaries after the 2009 draft class.
Juniors of interest anyone? I have Sen'Derrick Brooks at Auburn, DeMarcus Granger of OKlahoma, and the 2 kids from LSU Woods and Francois. I think all are also Redshirt juniors who would be more likely to declare. Actually, Woods played as a freshman. Might be the best of the juniors though...
BroncoInferno
07-08-2008, 08:28 AM
Bleh. Again, he's bargain basement. And since he ran over a 4.5, I realize Denver fans will love him. Yeah, he could be a surprise but thats been pretty much every RB we've had, not named Portis. A waste of a pick.
LOL You are really covering your flank here. If he runs for 1200 yards it'll be "oh, thats been pretty much every RB we've had, not named Portis so I'm still right...waste of pick." If he is that productive it is NOT anything less than a steal in the 5th round. Do you realize the percentage of 5th round picks who fail to even ever start a game? I don't know the exact numbers, but I'd wager it's less than 10%. So, if we get 1200 yard type production then, yes, it's a good pick...an excellent pick, and it is nothing short of moronic to suggest otherwise.
Mediator12
07-08-2008, 09:35 AM
Bleh. Again, he's bargain basement. And since he ran over a 4.5, I realize Denver fans will love him. Yeah, he could be a surprise but thats been pretty much every RB we've had, not named Portis. A waste of a pick.
Depends on your definition of a waste of a pick. Was Terrell Davis a waste of a pick? If so, then I might understand your position. If not, what would be the difference if DEN can routinely use late picks in the draft to produce quality RB's that outperform the majority of the league?
IMHO, having several positions that can produce NFL starters routinely later in the draft is a huge bonus on draft day. Teams like NE have made a dynasty by drafting DB's later than everyone and still having first and second rounders to spend on linemen on both sides of the ball every year.
Sometimes, guys develop at positions like this and sometimes Elite guys tumble or get injured and never develop. Criticizing Torain as bargain basement before ever seeing him perform in DEN belies an incredible Bias. Personally, I look forward to watching him play before doing that.
TheReverend
07-08-2008, 10:20 AM
Depends on your definition of a waste of a pick. Was Terrell Davis a waste of a pick? If so, then I might understand your position. If not, what would be the difference if DEN can routinely use late picks in the draft to produce quality RB's that outperform the majority of the league?
IMHO, having several positions that can produce NFL starters routinely later in the draft is a huge bonus on draft day. Teams like NE have made a dynasty by drafting DB's later than everyone and still having first and second rounders to spend on linemen on both sides of the ball every year.
Sometimes, guys develop at positions like this and sometimes Elite guys tumble or get injured and never develop. Criticizing Torain as bargain basement before ever seeing him perform in DEN belies an incredible Bias. Personally, I look forward to watching him play before doing that.
Where the hell have you been?
2KBack
07-08-2008, 11:40 AM
Where the hell have you been?
seconded, this place misses a good infusion of in depth analysis
Depends on your definition of a waste of a pick. Was Terrell Davis a waste of a pick? If so, then I might understand your position. If not, what would be the difference if DEN can routinely use late picks in the draft to produce quality RB's that outperform the majority of the league?
This concept of utility, which amplifies differences in skill, says otherwise.
So lets say for discussion that the utility factor for RBs in Denver is .1, which is to say a RB that is rated as an 8.0 RB in Denver becomes an 8.8. So lets further look at 2 scenarios, both of which involve drafting a LB and a RB and both involve choosing two players ranked as 8.0 and 9.0.
Scenario 1 (RB first)
Rd 1 RB 9.0 * 1.1= 9.9
Rd 2 LB 8.0 *1.0 = 8.0....because of no utility factor
````````````````17.9
Scenario 2 (LB first)
Rd 1 LB 9.0 * 1.0 = 9.0
Rd 2 RB 8.0 * 1.1 = 8.8
`````````````````17.8
You get more value by taking a RB high because of the concept of utility. Plus it doesnt minimize what should be one of our strengths and it also minimizes risk at the top end of the draft.
IMHO, having several positions that can produce NFL starters routinely later in the draft is a huge bonus on draft day. Teams like NE have made a dynasty by drafting DB's later than everyone and still having first and second rounders to spend on linemen on both sides of the ball every year.
If you need a RB, take one high, if youre going by the "you can plug anyone in" approach, then its kind of silly to take Torain, especially when you look at opportunity cost...what was forgone to take Torain.
Sometimes, guys develop at positions like this and sometimes Elite guys tumble or get injured and never develop. Criticizing Torain as bargain basement before ever seeing him perform in DEN belies an incredible Bias. Personally, I look forward to watching him play before doing that.
Whatever. Actually, Ive seen him play. And actually a lot of people get excited based on 1) having a slow 40 time and 2) hearing that he was among the top senior RBs going into last season. The senior RB class wasnt that great. Torain actually went in the top 5 but wasnt taken until the 5th. I think the 3rd Sr RB taken went in the 4th. Saying he was among the top of the senior RBs wasnt really saying much.
Where the hell have you been?
seriously, I missed my boy! ha ha. Good to have you back Med.
We need some more round table discussions about prospects.
socalorado
07-08-2008, 02:05 PM
seconded, this place misses a good infusion of in depth analysis
3rded!.... We need to get some draft and pre season discussions going again, dammit! Its draft discussions or the politics crap which is creeping in on Gen Disc.
And yes, i took english 101.
kmonty
07-10-2008, 08:13 PM
Im hoping we take Robinson because Im hoping we draft in the bottom half of Rd 1. You dont often see OGs with 1st round grades. I realize its not considered to be as important as OT but still, if your a team that has had red zone struggles, there should be a premium on someone like Robinson. Id like
Robinson, Chung/Ellison, McKillop, and a DT.
I'm banking on Nalen retiring after this year, with Hamilton moving inside to C. The need for a left guard will be there, although I'd like to see what Dylan Gandy has up his sleeve.
I haven't taken a good look at the pool of talent there, but I'm thinking we'll be drafting linebacker in the first round next year.
kmartin575
07-11-2008, 12:24 PM
I am surprised Fili Moala and Jeff Owens are not on this list at DT. Moala was the best overall DT I saw on film last year. That includes Dorsey and his teammate Sedrick Ellis. Also, Owens popped out on film after watching Marcus Howard get one on one's when he was doubled.
Magee is playing a DT/DE tweener role for Purdue right now and may project to LDE in the Pros. Terrance Taylor is another stout little NT. Not much all around game, but he is impressive versus the run. Overall, this class is about four deep of players that might be able to help right away, with a few more hopefully developing and a few underclassmen being motivated by talk of changing the rookie salaries after the 2009 draft class.
Juniors of interest anyone? I have Sen'Derrick Brooks at Auburn, DeMarcus Granger of OKlahoma, and the 2 kids from LSU Woods and Francois. I think all are also Redshirt juniors who would be more likely to declare. Actually, Woods played as a freshman. Might be the best of the juniors though...
And that is why you are not a scout.
elsid13
07-11-2008, 03:47 PM
And that is why you are not a scout.
You are really are dip ****. Med is one the best poster on any football message board when comes to breaking individual college players. Plus he has contacts that help get the real scope on the guys.
Now for the ratings, they rarely are right at this time of year. This is top 10 preseason 2007 WRs from National Scouting services:
Limas Sweed/Texas
Adarius Bowman/Oklahoma State
Keenan Burton/Kentucky
Dorien Bryant/Purdue
Andre Caldwell/Florida
William Franklin/Missouri
Harry Douglas/Louisville
Early Doucet/LSU
Donnie Avery/Houston
Marcus Monk/Arkansas
Real accurate huh?
You are really are dip ****. Med is one the best poster on any football message board when comes to breaking individual college players. Plus he has contacts that help get the real scope on the guys.
Now for the ratings, they rarely are right at this time of year. This is top 10 preseason 2007 WRs from National Scouting services:
Limas Sweed/Texas
Adarius Bowman/Oklahoma State
Keenan Burton/Kentucky
Dorien Bryant/Purdue
Andre Caldwell/Florida
William Franklin/Missouri
Harry Douglas/Louisville
Early Doucet/LSU
Donnie Avery/Houston
Marcus Monk/Arkansas
Real accurate huh?
Not that you dont have a solid point, but last years WRs werent really that great at the top end as far as WRs go. If a player is a top player out of a good class for a position, I would lean toward expecting more consistency. How were the OTs ranked last year?
elsid13
07-11-2008, 06:22 PM
Not that you dont have a solid point, but last years WRs werent really that great at the top end as far as WRs go. If a player is a top player out of a good class for a position, I would lean toward expecting more consistency. How were the OTs ranked last year?
Couldn't tell you. The site doesn't list them, but here are the RBs
'07 Top Ten RB's: National
Allen Patrick/Oklahoma
Chris Johnson/East Carolina
Mike Hart/Michigan
Thomas Brown/Georgia
Matt Forte'/Tulane
Corey Boyd/South Carolina
Dantrell Savage/Oklahoma State
Tashard Choice/Georgia Tech
Benjarvus Green Ellis/Mississippi
Rafael Little/Kentucky
And the QBs
'07 Top Ten QB's: National
Andre Woodson/Kentucky
Matt Ryan/Boston College
Brian Brohm/Louisville
Chad Henne/Michigan
John David Booty/USC
Erik Ainge/Tennessee
Matt Flynn/LSU
Colt Brennan/Hawaii
Anthony Morelli/Penn State
T.C. Ostrander/Stanford
kmonty
07-11-2008, 06:58 PM
That's some eye-opening stuff right there. Rep.
elsid13
07-11-2008, 07:06 PM
That's some eye-opening stuff right there. Rep.
Not really. It early in the season and national services are basing thier ranking on talks to coaches and spring ball.
socalorado
07-11-2008, 09:16 PM
I am surprised Fili Moala and Jeff Owens are not on this list at DT. Moala was the best overall DT I saw on film last year. That includes Dorsey and his teammate Sedrick Ellis. Also, Owens popped out on film after watching Marcus Howard get one on one's when he was doubled.
Magee is playing a DT/DE tweener role for Purdue right now and may project to LDE in the Pros. Terrance Taylor is another stout little NT. Not much all around game, but he is impressive versus the run. Overall, this class is about four deep of players that might be able to help right away, with a few more hopefully developing and a few underclassmen being motivated by talk of changing the rookie salaries after the 2009 draft class.
Juniors of interest anyone? I have Sen'Derrick Brooks at Auburn, DeMarcus Granger of OKlahoma, and the 2 kids from LSU Woods and Francois. I think all are also Redshirt juniors who would be more likely to declare. Actually, Woods played as a freshman. Might be the best of the juniors though...
YEs. Moala is that good, and will be one of the top 5 guys that will be looked at as possible #1 picks. I think he eventually goes in the top 10. Hes a beast.
Granger is a really talented prospect as well.
socalorado
07-11-2008, 09:19 PM
Couldn't tell you. The site doesn't list them, but here are the RBs
'07 Top Ten RB's: National
Allen Patrick/Oklahoma
Chris Johnson/East Carolina
Mike Hart/Michigan
Thomas Brown/Georgia
Matt Forte'/Tulane Wanted DEN to draft him sooo damn bad! Jeez, i posted his video soo many times here!
Corey Boyd/South Carolina
Dantrell Savage/Oklahoma State
Tashard Choice/Georgia Tech DEN should have drafted him. i am good with Torain though.
Benjarvus Green Ellis/Mississippi
Rafael Little/Kentucky
And the QBs
'07 Top Ten QB's: National
Andre Woodson/Kentucky ???
Matt Ryan/Boston College
Brian Brohm/Louisville
Chad Henne/Michigan Should be 3rd
John David Booty/USC
Erik Ainge/Tennessee Sleeper, who will be solid
Matt Flynn/LSU
Colt Brennan/Hawaii
Anthony Morelli/Penn State
T.C. Ostrander/Stanford
:thumbs: Elisid