SUVs on road to nowhere

[Atlas]

SUVs on road to nowhere
Big families and others feel pinched as gas prices force them to ditch their roomy rides.

By Michael Booth
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 06/30/2008 06:03:23 AM MDT


"We're kind of in a pickle," said Erin Thielke, shown with six of her eight kids and their Ford Excursion at their Aurora home. "We need a large car, but it's killing us. It's just like throwing money away" with gas prices so high. (The Denver Post | Joe Amon)
Let's call this one.

Tag it and bag it — the sport utility vehicle has passed on.

Might as well hold services right here in the driveway of the Thielke family of Aurora, where their hulking, 10.5-mile-per-gallon Ford Excursion is on fire sale with few takers and is soon to be replaced by a less greedy minivan.

Killed by insanely high gas prices and a general cultural embarrassment, the SUV leaves lots of survivors but fewer and fewer friends.

"We're kind of in a pickle. We need a large car, but it's killing us," Erin Thielke, mother of eight, said of the family's $100-plus weekly gas bill. "It stinks. It's just like throwing money away."

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0630/20080630__cd30suv~p1.jpg

And thus begins the requiem for the possession that defined America for nearly two decades: the box on wheels with more cup holders than seats, the gas-sucking, soccer- team-hauling, rollover-prone vehicle that was cooler than a minivan but more reviled than a coal-fired power plant. It's only decent to hold services here in the West, as Colorado and Wyoming ranked at the top of per-capita SUV purchases.

Peter Brown of Automotive News in Detroit is already referring to the SUV as a dinosaur plodding through some distant, inexplicable past.

"The cultural phenomenon of the early 1990s is almost certainly dead forever," he said.

Official SUV sales were off more than 25 percent in the first part of 2008, and unofficial reports have them "falling off a cliff" since then. The Big Three U.S. automakers are idling the plants that produced giant vehicles that until recently were synonymous with American freedom and bounty — the Liberty, the Excursion, the Tahoe.

Permanent changes

Economists and auto experts say that changes in consumer habits are permanent as gasoline settles into a $3-to-$4 price range. The federal Department of Transportation reported total vehicle miles driven in the Western region dropped nearly 3 percent in April from the year before, a lifestyle change economists call shocking when the U.S. populations of people and vehicles continue to rise.

"You can say we're definitely in a different realm today than we were a year ago, in terms of the breadth of responses we see consumers making," said James Hamilton, a professor of economics at the University of California at San Diego.

A Kelley Blue Book study for June shows high gas prices have altered the choices of 72 percent of people looking for a new car. Some have dropped out of the market entirely while more than half are checking out fuel-efficient, small hybrids.

New homes in far-flung exurbs — the terminus for so many of those SUV trips — are going unsold or going into foreclosure. Hamilton reports that 15 percent of the homes in Temecula, Calif., a distant bedroom community for San Diego, are now in foreclosure. People can afford neither the house payments nor the gas payments to get them there.

Denver-area real-estate agent Mark Hodge agrees, saying central homes and apartments are holding value, while suburban homes can't sell. For himself, he likes having an SUV, but not two — the extra one in his driveway is for sale online.

Hodge's 2001 Eddie Bauer Ford Expedition is posted at $2,000 under blue-book value, and he's had no phone calls so far.

"It's panic selling," he said of the severe price reductions in used SUVs.

Travis Stahle saw an era pass with three swipes of his credit card — on the same trip to the gas station.

His Ford Excursion sported a 44-gallon gas tank, so here's the math: Many gas stations have a $75 credit-card limit. If he needed 40 gallons, the $160 bill would take three separate transactions.
Shift in vehicles

The cultural shift is getting Scott Carter reacquainted with his motorcycle. His Highlands Ranch family's 2006 Toyota Sequoia is on the market while they look for a Honda Accord or Civic. Having three competitive hockey players in the family means long drives to practice and tournaments, and a 16-year-old son needs to learn to drive in something less than a street yacht.

"If you don't really need it, you have to question if you really have to have it," Carter said. "It's getting away from the 'want' side of things a little bit."

The Carters' shift echoes another factor in the flight from SUVs: the maturing children of the primary SUV buyers. The modern SUV era began in 1990 with the introduction of the populist Ford Explorer and peaked in 2005 when SUVs and light pickups reached 55 percent of the new-car market.

A generation of kids grew up surrounded by a dozen cup holders and overhead DVD players, and now they're leaving for college in Toyota Priuses.

Along the way came the square-house-on-wheels Hummer, designer models like the Eddie Bauer and endless ridicule from environmentalists and foreigners. A Frenchman who analyzed American SUV mania likened us to reptiles seeking the most armor for instinctive combat.

Filling the supertankers was cheap; buying oil took up only 3.5 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product in 2005, while it will hit 6.9 percent this year if gas prices stay high.

Parents bought the SUVs because they were slightly cooler than minivans, Brown of Automotive News said. They claimed to need the extra space to haul kids and friends and camping equipment, but more often, like the Clockner family of Parker, they used massive trucks like the Excursion to commute 2 miles to work.

"Eleven miles to the gallon doesn't do anybody any good," said John Clockner, among those now trying to sell a used SUV at swallow-hard prices. "An Accord gets 28 or 29, plus you can find a place to park it."

Eighteen years after the first Explorer, a nation of SUV lovers is now talking like a bunch of binge drinkers ready to sober up.

"Gas prices are just too high," Thielke said. "People are getting slammed in the pocketbook."

Still, Thielke is evidence that while the SUV might get buried, it will not go entirely unmourned.

"The kids are having a fit," she said, looking out at the Expedition she planned to chalk a "For Sale" sign on that very afternoon. "I have tall children. And the big cars have lots of comfort."

[Atlas]

These are the comments after the story. They are pretty good.

Switch comment order to newest-to-oldest

Good riddance.

Good article too... goodness abounds.

McGill
Joined: May 30
Points: 2826 McGill (aka JasperJohns) | 12:21 AM on Monday Jun 30
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I was born in 1988 to a family with a Jeep Thing. That's the closest my family ever came to owning an SUV. Sure, I was jealous of the kids whose parents had the ginormus SUVs, but now I'm kinda proud of my family's penchant for actual cars. I don't have to mourn the loss of 28 cup holders, lol.

A M
Joined: Apr 18
Points: 560 A M (aka AmaranthArticia) | 12:49 AM on Monday Jun 30
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There's a flip side to this article, however.

There has never been a better time to buy a used SUV. You can get a year old, factory warrantied, $40,000 sticker for about $15K today. Why would you do that in the time of $4 gas? If you don't drive many miles per year and need to haul a lot of kids or cargo, your cost per mile could still be reasonable. You can buy a lot of $4 gas for the price you saved over a lot of other new cars (crossovers, etc.) that are designed to fit 6+ people. By buying used, you are not incurring the "carbon debt" required and the additional resources to build another new vehicle. There are still a ton of small vehicles out there that don't get much better mileage than a Suburban etc (I'm looking at you luxury cars and "crossover" SUVs), so it might still make sense to wait a couple of years until a truly transformative technology becomes available.

A Walters
Joined: Oct 11
Points: 500 A Walters (aka awal) | 1:05 AM on Monday Jun 30
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hehehehe. What bothers me most, is that she will sell this vehicle, and it will remain in the economy. IOW, SOMEBODY will continue to get 11 mpg for another 10 years. The next president will need to offer incentives to move us to electric cars, but also for conversion kits. Vehicles like this should be converted to electric, if we are going to make a real change in America's imports of oil.
g.r. r.
Joined: May 15
Points: 10453 g.r. r. (aka windbourne) | 2:06 AM on Monday Jun 30
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I would like to know A M where you can buy a year old, factory warrantied $40,000 sticker for about $15K today? That is not realistic and is quite the stretch....

E H
Joined: Jun 30
Points: 0 E H (aka Eric from WY) | 2:15 AM on Monday Jun 30
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Bigger isn't better or safer and most definitely not necessary. My sympathy for gas guzzling SUV owners is short lived. On multiple occasions I was almost run-over by an cell phone talking, SUV drivers who quite literally acted as if they owned the road and the rest of us just had to deal. SUV's owners fondness for buying, owning and using them a child like tantrum screaming "but I want that". There is a difference between want and need (what a concept!). That its taken sustained $3.00+ a gallon gas prices to get SUV owners to stop pitching a preverbial fit shows thier arrogance and immaturity.

I give credit to the owner's who are selling and planning to buy more mileage friendly cars. Thier switch will help force car manufacturers to produce reliable, safe and economical cars that aren't at the bottom of the car manufacturing food chain in appearance or value.

When you've got millions of people demanding it, America's Big 3 car manufacturers will have to do more than pretend deafness to car buyers demands with only a few, unattractive and so-so reliability. Thier economic survival will depend heavily on hearing and responding to those demands.

This is an incredible opportunity for Detroit's big 3, but only if they recognize and act on it. I'm praying Detroit's big 3 can prove they're not only as good but better than the imports. Wouldn't that be wonderful!

Colette, Denver, CO

Colette Duranleau
Joined: Jun 13
Points: 952 Colette Duranleau (aka ColetteDD2) | 2:38 AM on Monday Jun 30
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car in many Indonesian people is just a dream, including me.

t h
Joined: Jun 30
Points: 0 t h (aka torasham) | 3:19 AM on Monday Jun 30
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[b]Hey Michael: Has anyone crunched the political numbers yet? Like are those folks out there in the “far-flung” exurbs filled with mostly republicans? I know that gas prices are an equal opportunity oppressor, but it would seem logical that in the Red territory were the dinosaurs roam would be taking a bigger hit. If they are willing to throw their SUVs under the bus, how about their political gods?

W S
Joined: May 3
Points: 250 W S (aka LakewoodACIC) | 4:05 AM on Monday Jun 30
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"We're kind of in a pickle. We need a large car, but it's killing us," Erin Thielke, mother of eight..."

Kinda says it all, huh?

She isn't smart enough to understand it. She's probably not smart enough to be embarrassed, either.

She is a huge part of the problem. She is a breeder who lives in the suburbs, has WAY too many kids, drives everywhere in a big Stupid Ugly Vehicle, and doesn't have enough money to pay for at all.

She got whacked hard with the stupid stick! At least now, with higher gas, electricity, and food costs, the free ride is over for the dumber, more self-centered folks among us.

Hey, Erin! You know what they say: When life hands you a pickle, make pickleade! :)

H i
Joined: May 20
Points: 1210 H i (aka Hatless in Denver) | 4:53 AM on Monday Jun 30
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It doesn't seem like there's any shortage of Mexican immigrants with HUGE SUVs. I gues if you don't pay taxes or for insurance, you can afford a Navigator, Hummer, or Excursion.

Denver Wing
Joined: Jul 24
Points: 4102 Denver Wing (aka DenverWing) | 4:53 AM on Monday Jun 30
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This time next year, these beasts will be in great demand. As our economy collapses, the possibilities for shelter are much better in a Suburban than in one of the little rice burners that were initially responsible for us abandoning American products for the cheap **** from Asia.

g b
Joined: May 16
Points: 580 g b (aka homerhater) | 5:15 AM on Monday Jun 30
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Six of eight kids? What's she complaining about? Her federal tax liability is probably ZERO!

r r
Joined: Jun 18
Points: 340 r r (aka walden1) | 5:27 AM on Monday Jun 30
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What's sad is people will read this piece and believe it. It belongs on the opinion page, not the front page. These vehicles are not going away. They're not being crushed. They'll still be on the road.

What should fall from favor is large families. Talk about bad for sustainability of the planet.

And, if you've got a paid off SUV, what's sustainable about trading it for a new hybrid? Constantly churning out new cars is certainly not environmentally friendly, regardless of the gas mileage.

Ownership cost per mile is much lower on a paid off SUV than on a new hybrid with monthly payments.

Best for the environment? Drive whatever you have until it literally falls apart, and don't have more than 2 kids.

Dale
Joined: May 21
Points: 767 Dale (aka doktorbombay) | 5:40 AM on Monday Jun 30
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Well, I knew I'd find a post here by Ted Kazinski, er I mean Hatless (H i). I'm wondering how he or she gets the internet in a cabin with no electricity.

Anyways about the article,
sell your SUV for less than what it's worth.
Buy an economy car priced higher than what it's worth.
Good luck fitting your baseball team in the economy car.
In 10-12 years, you'll have broken even in gas savings.

M R
Joined: Dec 11
Points: 702 M R (aka redfive) | 5:41 AM on Monday Jun 30
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So, Ms. Thielke did her part by contributing to the overpopulation of the planet, global warming, and soaring oil prices by having eight children and buying a 10.5 mpg land yacht. She must be so proud of herself.

brian andersen

[Kaylore]

I love the people ripping on her for having a large family. What a joke that guy is. We're not overpopulated in the least.

[socalorado]

New SUV term- land yacht!

Man, thats great!

[Atlas]

I love the people ripping on her for having a large family. What a joke that guy is. We're not overpopulated in the least.

Having a large family today is not practical. No crops to plow no cattle to tend to. This lady now just figuring it out. No sense in ripping her but nobody should feel sorry for her either.

[broncosteven]

Having a large family today is not practical. No crops to plow no cattle to tend to. This lady now just figuring it out. No sense in ripping her but nobody should feel sorry for her either.

I am with you. My sister can barely get by supporting their 3 kids. We are stopping at 2, I want to be able to retire.

Screw gas prices just wait until they try to get all (or even 1) those kids a college education.

[sisterhellfyre]

New SUV term- land yacht!

Man, thats great!

"New"? I've been using it for years, starting with the old '70s Cadillacs & Lincolns that got about 8 MPG.

Regards,
m.

[rugbythug]

I get sick of people thinking they know what is best for everyone else. She shouldn't drive car x because. Shut up and drive the car you want and worry about it. Let's assume for a second that eveyone makes the decision that is best for them. Wow what a concept.

[Kaylore]

I get sick of people thinking they know what is best for everyone else. She shouldn't drive car x because. Shut up and drive the car you want and worry about it. Let's assume for a second that eveyone makes the decision that is best for them. Wow what a concept.

That's where I'm coming from. If they have the means to support a large family then they should do it. Having a large family is a good thing if you can do it. It makes things more fun and it keeps us from turning into China and Europe where they have three retirees to one working person.:flush:

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

$2.50 gas, $3 gas, $10 gas...thing gets 10mpg either way and they've always been pissing away money.

My 02 Sentra may look like a piece of ****, but I can go 3 weeks without having to fill up. And then when I do, it's only (I say 'only') around $40.

Kias aren't looking so bad anymore.

[Crushaholic]

Such hatred I sense in this person for SUVs. I may not need it for this time of year, but I very much thank my lucky stars I have an SUV in the dead of winter getting through the snow and ice. If that makes me greedy, so be it. I'm going to be safe on the road. In return, I'll do everything I can to make my driving safe for everyone else on the road.

[Meck77]

That's where I'm coming from. If they have the means to support a large family then they should do it. Having a large family is a good thing if you can do it. It makes things more fun and it keeps us from turning into China and Europe where they have three retirees to one working person.:flush:

Doesn't bother me that people have large families either but I admit it confuses me when they complain about how much their kids cost, how much college will cost, how they can't afford to vacation anymore etc.

Maybe more people will actually use birth control now.

[Atlas]

That's where I'm coming from. If they have the means to support a large family then they should do it. Having a large family is a good thing if you can do it. It makes things more fun and it keeps us from turning into China and Europe where they have three retirees to one working person.:flush:

I agree but she is complaining. Obviously she can't support her family. She is complaining about how her SUV is getting 10 MPG and she can't afford it, but she also can't get a car because she has 8 children, and we are supossed to feel sorry for her?

WOW, cry me a river. Maybe she should sell the house move out of the suburbs and into town where her baseball tea...... ererrr I mean her kids can walk where they need to go...

That's my George Carlin rant!! ^5

[orangeatheist]

I remember my dad hurting during the gas crisis in the 1970s. My brother's first car was a Mustang which he sold when he started commuting to work in 1977. He went out and bought a VW Rabbit. My dad gasped at the great gas milage. He'd always purchased Fords before. So, he goes out and buys a small, fuel efficient car (I think it was a Monza).

At any rate, I remember all of this and so, when I got old enough to buy a car, my first was a Honda Civic hatchback. I've owned exactly two Civics in the last 20 years. The second one (a four door sedan) is still in my garage. Need I say more?

When my family started to grow, I wanted a bigger car to haul them and the groceries. Growing up in the 70s taught me that fuel efficiency was a must so SUVs weren't even on my radar. But I wanted something similar. So, I went shopping and bought a Toyota Matrix.

I've NEVER understood America's 1980's and 1990s love affair with the gas pump. I used to get pissed if I had to spend more than $10 bucks to fill up my cars. Now, I can drive the Civic around for about three weeks before needing to fill up. Yesterday it cost me $34 at the Safeway (with my 3 cent discount!). Turns my stomach. But, when I drive up and see the previous guy spent $94, I try not to feel so bad.

Hate them freakin' SUVs.

[Kaylore]

I agree but she is complaining. Obviously she can't support her family. She is complaining about how her SUV is getting 10 MPG and she can't afford it, but she also can't get a car because she has 8 children, and we are supossed to feel sorry for her?

WOW, cry me a river. Maybe she should sell the house move out of the suburbs and into town where her baseball tea...... ererrr I mean her kids can walk where they need to go...

That's my George Carlin rant!! ^5

I see your point. I was speaking more to the people in the comments you posted that said she was doing a disservice by having a lot of kids. There is more than one type of car that you can use to haul kids around in. At least she legitimately needs a big car! How about all those people that have an SUV and don't have a reason for owning it? She can switch to a van or some such thing.

[Atlas]

I see your point. I was speaking more to the people in the comments you posted that said she was doing a disservice by having a lot of kids. There is more than one type of car that you can use to haul kids around in. At least she legitimately needs a big car! How about all those people that have an SUV and don't have a reason for owning it? She can switch to a van or some such thing.

Maybe she could get a little pickup with a U-trailer. Hilarious!

Hey my Dad had 7 brothers and a sister and it was survival of the fittest. One time my grandma left one of the kids at the bus station just because she couldn't keep track of them all.

[SureShot]

I can't wait to get a new truck!

[Atlas]

I can't wait to get a new truck!

Price wise there has never been a bette time!!

[NW Bolt Fan]

It's about time. Utility is one thing, image is another. Figured this site is applicable here:

http://www.fuh2.com/

[BroncoBuff]

I don't get it .... the amount of money you save with 10 more MPG is kinda minimal. Unless you drive 400 miles a week ???

[BigPlayShay]

Wow, I bet there are a lot of couples that can't have children that would like to stomp this whiner in the head. Don't make the choice to have 8 ****ing kids and then complain about the ramifications of that choice. Buy the kids a bus pass.

[BigPlayShay]

I love the people ripping on her for having a large family. What a joke that guy is. We're not overpopulated in the least.

Not now... What about when the food and natural resources shortage hits the overpopulated and third world countries? Mass migrations. The US may not be overpopulated, but the world certainly is.

[scttgrd]

My Wagoneer is paid for, so I don't care that it only gets 12mpg. We only drive maybe 5000 miles a year so it make no sense to spend $20,000 on a new more fuel friendly car. We have owned Jeeps for a long time and use it as a vacation and weekend getaway ride. I guess it depends on how you use you car.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Not now... What about when the food and natural resources shortage hits the overpopulated and third world countries? Mass migrations. The US may not be overpopulated, but the world certainly is.When? Isn't that already happening? Mass starvation ain't a new thing...

[Killericon]

When winter rolls around in Canada, considering where I live, I'm gonna be driving a truck. Of course, I'm selling my car, and won't be owning one for the next 4 years cause I'm moving away for school, but when I get back, I'm getting a 4x4.

[BigPlayShay]

When? Isn't that already happening? Mass starvation ain't a new thing...

It is, and will only get worse.

[NW Bolt Fan]

I don't get it .... the amount of money you save with 10 more MPG is kinda minimal. Unless you drive 400 miles a week ???If their gas bill is $100/week, and they get a vehicle with double the efficiency (3x or 4x wouldnt be that hard) it translates to a savings of around $200/month. 2.4k/year, compound interest... you could see a result pretty quick I'd imagine.

[Bronco Jamus]

I have an SUV and I will always keep it. I can work on it, haul with it, and I am an outdoors in the mountains where I need transport that will handle the terrain. I don't see myself buying another one though.

[montrose]

*Bad Citizen Alert* I drive an SUV as a 23 year old single male. I get about 13 miles to the gallon and have no reason to own that vehicle other than the extra get-up-and-go it gives me driving over Monarch (the locals know how fun that is). I realize I'm sh**ing all over the environment driving it, but my parents gave it to me after it was paid off and I just don't have funds to go out and buy a new car right now. I try to take the light rail and walk to stuff when it's close by, and the fact I'm a freelancer working from home definitely lessens my gas usage - but there are still times I feel like a creep driving around by myself in that thing.

[Atlas]

I don't get it .... the amount of money you save with 10 more MPG is kinda minimal. Unless you drive 400 miles a week ???

Not really. If she was getting 10 MPG and then got a mini van that got 20 MPG that is cutting your fuelk costs in half. Going from $100 a week to $50 a week. I imagine she is doing 250-400 miles a week. She lives in the suburbs and she has 8 ****ing kids!!! That's a lot of running around.

[Bronco Jamus]

Not now... What about when the food and natural resources shortage hits the overpopulated and third world countries? Mass migrations. The US may not be overpopulated, but the world certainly is.

Then natural selection will take it's course. You tell people not to feel sorry for this woman, but inadvertently condone people expanding their populations where they can't sustain themselves. Go figure.

[Bronco Jamus]

My Wagoneer is paid for, so I don't care that it only gets 12mpg. We only drive maybe 5000 miles a year so it make no sense to spend $20,000 on a new more fuel friendly car. We have owned Jeeps for a long time and use it as a vacation and weekend getaway ride. I guess it depends on how you use you car.

Exactly, it doesn't make sense to get upside-down on a new vehicle to escape 10-15 bucks a tank

[NW Bolt Fan]

*Bad Citizen Alert* I drive an SUV as a 23 year old single male. I get about 13 miles to the gallon and have no reason to own that vehicle other than the extra get-up-and-go it gives me driving over Monarch (the locals know how fun that is). I realize I'm sh**ing all over the environment driving it, but my parents gave it to me after it was paid off and I just don't have funds to go out and buy a new car right now. I try to take the light rail and walk to stuff when it's close by, and the fact I'm a freelancer working from home definitely lessens my gas usage - but there are still times I feel like a creep driving around by myself in that thing.It's too bad more people don't have your "guilt". Or, what's worse, is that it's taken $4+/gallon gas prices for many to change their views... We are a stubborn bunch in this country.

I'd say, if you're conscientious, as it seems, you're not the person people need to be worrying about. GOOD CITIZEN driving a questionable car.

[DomCasual]

I have a Nissan Armada and a Ford F150. Combined, we put a little over 10,000 miles on our cars last year. My wife is a SAHM. I work from home. We have every kind of store you could imagine within five miles of us, so we don't drive that much.

When we trade in the Armada, we'll probably get a hybrid of some sort. But it will still probably be big - a Tahoe, or something similar.

It's a bummer spending over $100 to fill the tank. But, I do it every three weeks, or so. The trade-off for having something that's A) safer for my family, and B) good in snow is well worth the extra expense.

As for how many kids a person has - well, if you can support them, and you want them, then you should be able to have them. I have two, and would love to have at least a few more. We're done having our own, unfortunately. But we're willing to go the adoption route. I love having kids - easily, the best part of my life. And I like to think my kids will be a net positive in the world.

[Beantown Bronco]

Not really. If she was getting 10 MPG and then got a mini van that got 20 MPG that is cutting your fuelk costs in half. Going from $100 a week to $50 a week. I imagine she is doing 250-400 miles a week. She lives in the suburbs and she has 8 ****ing kids!!! That's a lot of running around.

If their gas bill is $100/week, and they get a vehicle with double the efficiency (3x or 4x wouldnt be that hard) it translates to a savings of around $200/month. 2.4k/year, compound interest... you could see a result pretty quick I'd imagine.

You're both ignoring the fact that by purchasing that new "fuel efficient" ride, they are most likely going to spend more money per month on car payments that they didn't have before and increased monthly insurance costs to insure the new ride. I've read numerous expert reports on this lately and not a single financial guru would recommend trading in a car to save even 20 mpg unless your current car was on its last legs.

[BigPlayShay]

Then natural selection will take it's course. You tell people not to feel sorry for this woman, but inadvertently condone people expanding their populations where they can't sustain themselves. Go figure.

Uh, I didn't condone anything in regard to expanding any population. The world is overpopulated. Whether this country is or not does not change the fact that many other parts of the world are. I would hope that people across the world would realize 8 kids at the current worlds population for any family is way too much.

What if droves of people "naturally select" a country that is not overpopulated and has plenty of land to migrate to *cough* US.

[NW Bolt Fan]

You're both ignoring the fact that by purchasing that new "fuel efficient" ride, they are most likely going to spend more money per month on car payments that they didn't have before and increased monthly insurance costs to insure the new ride. I've read numerous expert reports on this lately and not a single financial guru would recommend trading in a car to save even 20 mpg unless your current car was on its last legs.I'm not ignoring a thing. Take a moment to consider this: 1. Gas prices are by no means done moving. 2. $2400/year savings was based on doubling fuel efficiency, it'd be pretty simple to boost that number to 4k/year or more... Now compare trade in value with how much more you'd pay, and it's likley that any losses are recovered rather quickly.

If someone, such as montrose, impulsively traded in a perfectly working SUV for a hybrid, but didn't drive much, sure, it wouldn't necessarily make sense. But buying a car is an expenditure to begin with- not an investment. If someone looks at the bigger picture of savings, i.e. years down the road making the switch sounds a little better. On top of all that, it's not just about money.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Uh, I didn't condone anything in regard to expanding any population. The world is overpopulated. Whether this country is or not does not change the fact that many other parts of the world are. I would hope that people across the world would realize 8 kids at the current worlds population for any family is way too much.

What if droves of people "naturally select" a country that is not overpopulated and has plenty of land to migrate to *cough* US.That's what fences are for. ;D

[Beantown Bronco]

I'm not ignoring a thing. Take a moment to consider this: 1. Gas prices are by no means done moving.

Depends upon who you believe. Most aren't going to rush out and make the second largest purchase of their life without a little more to go on than the ramblings of folks like baja. It MAY go up to $5 per gallon. But by the time it goes up any higher, it's just as likely that gas only cars will be history anyway, so the discussion will be moot.

2. $2400/year savings was based on doubling fuel efficiency, it'd be pretty simple to boost that number to 4k/year or more... Now compare trade in value with how much more you'd pay, and it's likley that any losses are recovered rather quickly.

Sorry, still in the black. Trade ins on gas guzzlers right now is at an all time low. You are simply not going to do well, even trading privately. You are looking at a 20% hit on Kelly Blue Book value at an absolute minimum. Now is the absolute worst time to trade in a guzzler. Combine that with the fact that hybrids and even non-hybrid compact cars are going for MSRP or at least closer to MSRP than ever in history and you have the worst time to purchase a new fuel efficient ride.

There is almost no way to make the math work....unless you are single and drive a ton of miles every year. Large families have no choice but to hold on to their bigger rides.

[Kaylore]

Uh, I didn't condone anything in regard to expanding any population. The world is overpopulated. Whether this country is or not does not change the fact that many other parts of the world are. I would hope that people across the world would realize 8 kids at the current worlds population for any family is way too much.

What if droves of people "naturally select" a country that is not overpopulated and has plenty of land to migrate to *cough* US.

What a bunch of total crap. Everything you posted is wrong.

[BigPlayShay]

What a bunch of total crap. Everything you posted is wrong.

Betcha I have as much proof as you do...

[NW Bolt Fan]

Depends upon who you believe. Most aren't going to rush out and make the second largest purchase of their life without a little more to go on than the ramblings of folks like baja. It MAY go up to $5 per gallon. But by the time it goes up any higher, it's just as likely that gas only cars will be history anyway, so the discussion will be moot.



Sorry, still in the black. Trade ins on gas guzzlers right now is at an all time low. You are simply not going to do well, even trading privately. You are looking at a 20% hit on Kelly Blue Book value at an absolute minimum. Now is the absolute worst time to trade in a guzzler. Combine that with the fact that hybrids and even non-hybrid compact cars are going for MSRP or at least closer to MSRP than ever in history and you have the worst time to purchase a new fuel efficient ride.

There is almost no way to make the math work....unless you are single and drive a ton of miles every year. Large families have no choice but to hold on to their bigger rides.Like I said, cars are an expenditure anyhow, but yeah, you're right, people have to make an intelligent choice based on what the numbers say. If the SUV a family bought for $40k drops 20% because of driving it off the lot, then another %20 because of gas devaluation, but the new car they're buying costs $30k, then it pays off in less than 2 years based on the gas bill from the lady in the article.

As for the price of gas, it's all supply and demand. I'll guranantee you this: there wasn't a flood of financial "gurus" chirping 3 years ago about gas prices inevitably reaching and staying above a $4/gallon national average. Foresight isn't always in line with economists. Too many tend to base everything on limited projections.

[Kaylore]

Betcha I have as much proof as you do...

Yeah probably.:) The only problem is over-populationists (fake word, I know) have never been right. They've been predicting over-population problems since the 1700's and it's never a problem. They also never factor in the development of new technologies, which is silly.

Unplanned growth is bad and can lead to crowding, but there's a difference between over-crowding and over-population. All you have to do is go to one Asian country and see how tightly they are crammed in, how they are all eating, and how they still have room to grow and it's clear this isn't a problem. We're developing new ways to grow food, build structures and create energy. When you consider we're still paying people not to grow food and that if our country alone allocated all it's resources just to food that we could feed the entire world, it's pretty clear population overall isn't the problem. It's infrastructure, supply lines, poor education, poverty, etc.

[DomCasual]

Betcha I have as much proof as you do...

Well, it depends on who you're talking about. The world does not need more children born to parents who are starving/living on the system.

But, if kids are:

1) cared for;
2) in a loving home;
3) given a sound moral foundation; and
4) taught the importance of being educated,

then those kids are going to do more good than harm for the world. To just say "we need less people" is ridiculously simplifying the issue. What we need is better, smarter people.

[Steve Sewell]

My Wagoneer is paid for, so I don't care that it only gets 12mpg. We only drive maybe 5000 miles a year so it make no sense to spend $20,000 on a new more fuel friendly car. We have owned Jeeps for a long time and use it as a vacation and weekend getaway ride. I guess it depends on how you use you car.

I travel weekly and they're all parked at the airport...LOL.

I have 2 kids and don't feel in the least bit sorry for this family. It was their choice to have 8 kids, no on elses. When people make choices like this, they should expect to face the uncertainty and risks that come along with them. No complaining allowed.

[Fedaykin]

Make a hybrid that my 6'7" 250lb frame can fit into comfortably for a 4-6 hour drive and I'd be all over that.

The last time I sat in a Prius I had to hunch over like an old man to see properly out of the windshield.

[Steve Sewell]

Make a hybrid that my 6'7" 250lb frame can fit into comfortably for a 4-6 hour drive and I'd be all over that.

The last time I sat in a Prius I had to hunch over like an old man to see properly out of the windshield.

There are plenty of Hybrid SUV's out there today.

[montrose]

It's too bad more people don't have your "guilt". Or, what's worse, is that it's taken $4+/gallon gas prices for many to change their views... We are a stubborn bunch in this country.

I'd say, if you're conscientious, as it seems, you're not the person people need to be worrying about. GOOD CITIZEN driving a questionable car.

The funny thing is my family's been in the gas business my whole life, and I still recognize as a nation we use too much gasoline. In all honesty, the prices haven't effected me too much personally (although professionally they're close to driving my family out of business but that's a story for another day). I've been more concerned about the environment and unnecessary usage of natural resources. Because I don't drive too much, I'm not burning up much fuel compared to others - but again I still feel like a jerk at times in my Explorer.

While I know higher gas prices are squeezing everyone's wallet, not to mention bumping up the costs of other goods; we as Americans have been relatively spoiled that until the last 5 years or so - gas prices haven't inflated at the same rate as other goods and services (Go check your cable bill from 10 years ago if you want to get mad). Regardless, these prices are very likely here to stay but IMO (and keep in mind my family works in the gas business) I think the price increase has been a good thing as its forced many people to begin taking steps to minimize their fuel usage. I know, I know - big talk coming from the guy with the Explorer...

But in all seriousness, what bugs me the most is that people in this country are only (or at least mostly) concerned about this thing because of the price increase - not the energy issues. If gas prices dropped to 99 cents a gallon tomorrow, with a guarantee of never going back up again, you'd see people go right back to their excessive usage. The people today who cry about the extra cost and throw in a concern about the environment at the end of their sound bite would be right back at the pump and no longer carpooling, taking public transit and walking when available. Unfortunately the only way to get people to change in this country is to effect their wallet. Hopefully if prices do drop (which I doubt they will), people will continue to be considerate to mother nature.

[SureShot]

Price wise there has never been a bette time!!

When I go in I'm sure I will be able to name my terms thats for sure.

[Bronco Jamus]

Uh, I didn't condone anything in regard to expanding any population. The world is overpopulated. Whether this country is or not does not change the fact that many other parts of the world are. I would hope that people across the world would realize 8 kids at the current worlds population for any family is way too much.


The world isn't over-populated yet.

[Beantown Bronco]

The world isn't over-populated yet.

Spider's only one man....

[Popps]

I don't get it .... the amount of money you save with 10 more MPG is kinda minimal. Unless you drive 400 miles a week ???

Exactly. I'm all for using as little oil-based fuel as possible, but the financial side of trading down from SUVs is sort of silly unless you're putting GOBS of miles on your vehicle.

People need to remember that they're doing calculations on the difference between the car and the SUV, not between the SUV and a bicycle.

We love our SUV. It gets about 6 miles a gallon less than our mid-sized, 5 cyl Volvo sedan.

We put VERY minimal mileage on our cars per year, though... so the whole gas crunch thing doesn't mean much to us other than the way oil effects the price of everything else.

[Taco John]

*Bad Citizen Alert* I drive an SUV as a 23 year old single male. I get about 13 miles to the gallon and have no reason to own that vehicle other than the extra get-up-and-go it gives me driving over Monarch (the locals know how fun that is). I realize I'm sh**ing all over the environment driving it, but my parents gave it to me after it was paid off and I just don't have funds to go out and buy a new car right now. I try to take the light rail and walk to stuff when it's close by, and the fact I'm a freelancer working from home definitely lessens my gas usage - but there are still times I feel like a creep driving around by myself in that thing.



Don't sweat it. There's no reason to feel guilty.

[rugbythug]

My wife loves here Murano only gets 20 MPH but she drives it a-lot. I drive a truck even though I don't have to. I like it. Screw the haters.

[Atlas]

You're both ignoring the fact that by purchasing that new "fuel efficient" ride, they are most likely going to spend more money per month on car payments that they didn't have before and increased monthly insurance costs to insure the new ride. I've read numerous expert reports on this lately and not a single financial guru would recommend trading in a car to save even 20 mpg unless your current car was on its last legs.

Who said anything about a "new efficiency ride"? She is driving a ford expedition!! She could get a pretty nice used Minivan for $3,500. That would double her mileage.

[Atlas]

My wife loves here Murano only gets 20 MPH but she drives it a-lot. I drive a truck even though I don't have to. I like it. Screw the haters.

That is fine. You're not in the Denver Post whining about not being able to drive your family.

[Beantown Bronco]

Who said anything about a "new efficiency ride"? She is driving a ford expedition!! She could get a pretty nice used Minivan for $3,500. That would double her mileage.

Two things:

1. $3,500 for a minivan? No thanks. It would be in the shop every day.


2. People grossly overestimate the real world mileage that minivans get. Go to edmunds.com or a similar site and you will see that most folks get high teens to low 20s (if they're lucky, and it's empty) in minivans. Certainly not double what one would get in a large SUV.

[Atlas]

*Bad Citizen Alert* I drive an SUV as a 23 year old single male. I get about 13 miles to the gallon and have no reason to own that vehicle other than the extra get-up-and-go it gives me driving over Monarch (the locals know how fun that is). I realize I'm sh**ing all over the environment driving it, but my parents gave it to me after it was paid off and I just don't have funds to go out and buy a new car right now. I try to take the light rail and walk to stuff when it's close by, and the fact I'm a freelancer working from home definitely lessens my gas usage - but there are still times I feel like a creep driving around by myself in that thing.

Again no one cares about what you are doing. You aren't crying about fuel costs in the Denver Post looking for sympathy. I could care less what any of you drive just don't look to me for sympathy when you're fueling up. This lady and her 8 kids want us to feel sorry for them. I say buy a bus pass.

[Atlas]

Two things:

1. $3,500 for a minivan? No thanks. It would be in the shop every day.


2. People grossly overestimate the real world mileage that minivans get. Go to edmunds.com or a similar site and you will see that most folks get high teens to low 20s (if they're lucky, and it's empty) in minivans. Certainly not double what one would get in a large SUV.

Did you read the article? The lady is whining and complaining saying she can't afford the gas and has to sell her SUV. Her buying a cheap minivan is a way to help relieve her problem. It has nothing to do with you. The article also said she was getting 10 MPG. She isn't driving a normal SUV she is driving the beast of all SUVs a Ford Excursion. Yes they get 10 MPG. So getting a van would double her mileage.

This is what happens when a thread becomes more than a page... people don't read it.

[Dudeskey]

Two things:

1. $3,500 for a minivan? No thanks. It would be in the shop every day.


2. People grossly overestimate the real world mileage that minivans get. Go to edmunds.com or a similar site and you will see that most folks get high teens to low 20s (if they're lucky, and it's empty) in minivans. Certainly not double what one would get in a large SUV.

I agree on the second point from firsthand experience... Had a Ford Windstar (yes a POS and I'll never buy Ford again until they can figure out how to build a transmission, but I digress) that didn't do much better on mileage than what my wife currently drives- A 2001 Dodge Durango w/ the 4.7 liter V8 in it...

Coincidentally the Windstar cost about $3200

[Beantown Bronco]

Did you read the article? The lady is whining and complaining saying she can't afford the gas and has to sell her SUV. Her buying a cheap minivan is a way to help relieve her problem. It has nothing to do with you. The article also said she was getting 10 MPG. She isn't driving a normal SUV she is driving the beast of all SUVs a Ford Excursion. Yes they get 10 MPG. So getting a van would double her mileage.

This is what happens when a thread becomes more than a page... people don't read it.

Wrong. I've read every post here and have been commenting both about the original article and responding to other folks here that are personalizing her article into their daily lives. It's called multi-tasking.

There's not a single minivan on the planet that can seat 2 parents and 8 kids. The Excursion on the other hand can. And she won't be doubling her mileage in an average used minivan. Sorry. A new one MAY get 20 mpg if it's completely empty.....which it wouldn't be.....an old one if anythin will do worse mileage-wise because of the older technology and less efficient engine, etc.

[watermock]

This time next year, these beasts will be in great demand. As our economy collapses, the possibilities for shelter are much better in a Suburban than in one of the little rice burners that were initially responsible for us abandoning American products for the cheap **** from Asia.

[cutthemdown]

I guess I just think different then other people. IMO now is the time to grab a great deal on a big SUV or full size truck.

[Cito Pelon]

Big roomy vehicles sure are nice to have. Very impractical, but nice to have. As soon as an Expedition can be made that is fuel-efficient they'll be popular again.

If Ford put a supercharged 4-cyl in an Expedition, maybe that would satisfy everybody. Back in the 70's the Army APC's, about a 20-ton tracked vehicle, had supercharged 283CI V8's as the power plant.

It's all about technology. Also, look at an Expedition's gearing. Gear it down to where going through 5-6 gears results in only a top speed of say 80-85MPH and the fuel economy goes way, way up.

[Atlas]

Big roomy vehicles sure are nice to have. Very impractical, but nice to have. As soon as an Expedition can be made that is fuel-efficient they'll be popular again.

If Ford put a supercharged 4-cyl in an Expedition, maybe that would satisfy everybody. Back in the 70's the Army APC's, about a 20-ton tracked vehicle, had supercharged 283CI V8's as the power plant.

It's all about technology. Also, look at an Expedition's gearing. Gear it down to where going through 5-6 gears results in only a top speed of say 80-85MPH and the fuel economy goes way, way up.

We ordered a Smart Car. Should be here in 30 days.

[Beantown Bronco]

We ordered a Smart Car. Should be here in 30 days.

....and you say soccer is gay!

[Atlas]

....and you say soccer is gay!

LOL. Hey my wife wanted it. Were going top of the line convertible!!!! I'm still driving the Caddy until I can trade it in for a Honda.

[Tombstone RJ]

You're both ignoring the fact that by purchasing that new "fuel efficient" ride, they are most likely going to spend more money per month on car payments that they didn't have before and increased monthly insurance costs to insure the new ride. I've read numerous expert reports on this lately and not a single financial guru would recommend trading in a car to save even 20 mpg unless your current car was on its last legs.

Exactly. Getting into a car payment to save on gas is well, backwards thinking. Don't assume more debt in order to save money at the gas pump. Any savings at the pump will be nullified, or consumed by your car payment. And guess what, you still have to pay for gas...

Stay out of a car payment it at all possible.

[Cito Pelon]

We ordered a Smart Car. Should be here in 30 days.

I'm a sedan guy out of practicality, although we had a 4-cyl Camry wagon for many a year til it wore out. Nice car that wagon was, but you can't belt people in that rode in the back, a problem for many people.

FWITW, I think one of the dumbest design features of sedans is bucket seats and a console up front. That's just plain impractical use of space. I'd love to have a bench seat up front in my sedan, it's just plain stupid to waste that space on a console.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Exactly. Getting into a car payment to save on gas is well, backwards thinking. Don't assume more debt in order to save money at the gas pump. Any savings at the pump will be nullified, or consumed by your car payment. And guess what, you still have to pay for gas...

Stay out of a car payment it at all possible.From a financial standpoint- this is kinda key right here. Nothing like paying a % to take it in the ...

[manchambo]

nevermind--my point is already discussed above

[SureShot]

I guess I just think different then other people. IMO now is the time to grab a great deal on a big SUV or full size truck.

I'm with you. I'm looking as we speak.

[enjolras]

I get sick of people thinking they know what is best for everyone else. She shouldn't drive car x because. Shut up and drive the car you want and worry about it. Let's assume for a second that eveyone makes the decision that is best for them. Wow what a concept.

What about when your decision affects everybody? There is VERY little you can do in life that doesn't have an effect on everyone around you. When people choose to drive a tank they consume gas driving the price up for everyone. They cause unnecessary traffic deaths by running said tank into others. Hell, its hard to park in my building cause whoever has the spot next to me drives a fricking excursion. The point is, your choices DO affect me and asking me to just ignore that fact is short sighted and wrong.

In many ways turning the other cheek and letting folks 'live and let live' got us into this mess.

And for those that insist that they need a big SUV for snow:

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop-460x339/07_Outback_2.5XT2-1_0w.jpg

I have family just outside of Durango who managed to make it through the enormous snowfall they had this year in their Outback, I encourage you to do the same.

[Tombstone RJ]

Yah, I'm not buying the whole "gotta have an SUV with 4 wheel drive to get through the snow..." argument. I grew up in Colorado and got by just fine with a front wheel drive car that had two good tires... I didn't even need 4 good tires, just two good tires on the front.

Much of it is just knowing how to drive on snow and ice...

[ak1971]

I need my giant SUV to haul my giant gas guzzling boat!

[DomCasual]

Anyone notice a lot of scooters on the roads lately?

I wish they would either drive the speed limit, or get off to the side of the road like a bicycle.

[SureShot]

I need my giant SUV to haul my giant gas guzzling boat!

Amen!

[cutthemdown]

I need my giant SUV to haul my giant gas guzzling boat!

Exactly trucks and suvs will go back to what they are supposed to be for. Pulling a trailer, pulling a boat etc. They have there uses just not good for going to the market for a six pack or sitting in city traffic commuting. People will still need vehicles with power and tonnage but it had gotten ridiculous so many people had SUVS that didn't have anything to pull with it.

The good news for people with boats, trailers is that there is a glut of vehicles available and that makes it a good time to get that work truck or hauling vehicle you need.

[cutthemdown]

the perfect trio would be a commuting car and then also a luxury car, or if you need to haul something a truck or suv. Or just a sportscar that is fun and economical gas wise.

Even at 2.50 a gallon its stupid to commute in anything over a small 6 cyl.

[Alkazar]

Yah, I'm not buying the whole "gotta have an SUV with 4 wheel drive to get through the snow..." argument. I grew up in Colorado and got by just fine with a front wheel drive car that had two good tires... I didn't even need 4 good tires, just two good tires on the front.

Much of it is just knowing how to drive on snow and ice...

I remember one winter in Colorado Springs when the snow was so deep even the 4X4s were getting stuck, but my Dad was able to zip right over to school to pick us up in his little VW bug....hehehe, sucker was so light it just drove on top of the snow...

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yeah probably.:) The only problem is over-populationists (fake word, I know) have never been right. They've been predicting over-population problems since the 1700's and it's never a problem. They also never factor in the development of new technologies, which is silly.
That's complete BS, especially right here in the U.S. Try to go to a popular National Park in the country now-a-days. Waiting lines are literally days long at some now. Just about every city suffers from poor air, clogged highways and strained city services (serving the public). Denver area air is so bad now that the front range corridor from the Springs to Ft. Collins to almost the Nebraska line to Denver is rated as one of the worst in the country.

Another 140 million people (49% population increase during the next 50 years) are predicted to be in the country between 2000 and 2050.

[Spider]

Man it was 95 degrees out today , I finally was able to stop and get a ice cold 64 oz diet mountain dew , got 2 drinks out of it and this fat bitch in a SUV pulled right out in front of me , I mean right in front , I locked up the breaks , my drink went everywhere ........ talk about road rage ....... but it seems everyone has a Pick up or a SUV and use them as every day transportation ...... completely worthless .....

[Spider]

Yah, I'm not buying the whole "gotta have an SUV with 4 wheel drive to get through the snow..." argument. I grew up in Colorado and got by just fine with a front wheel drive car that had two good tires... I didn't even need 4 good tires, just two good tires on the front.

Much of it is just knowing how to drive on snow and ice...

Best driver I ever seen , had a 2 wheel drive Chevy pick up in Montana , worked the oil patch , he never got stuck , went everywhere those 4x4 went ....... That dude has mad driving skills ...... I wish I could have got a few pointers from him

[Spider]

Hey ****ers I have a big family , I am able to support them , but you damn right I will b**** about fuel prices and all of you that dont like me b****ing can kiss my ass ....... 4.5 -5 mpg , in a truck I use to make my living , you guys with SUV's and pick ups think you have power ? you got tinker toys , they should stamp Fisher price or Matel on the side of them ........they dont have power , Get behind the wheel with a red headed cummins , or a 3406 E model cat , 500 60 series detroit , then we can talk power ........I could take your silly ass 4x4 or SUV and drag it up and down the highway and not even notice it was there ......

[PaintballCLE]

Man it was 95 degrees out today , I finally was able to stop and get a ice cold 64 oz diet mountain dew , got 2 drinks out of it and this fat b**** in a SUV pulled right out in front of me , I mean right in front , I locked up the breaks , my drink went everywhere ........ talk about road rage ....... but it seems everyone has a Pick up or a SUV and use them as every day transportation ...... completely worthless .....

lol spider......you may have had the worst string of recent luck ever. :pity:

[Spider]

right now I am driving a 1986 359 Pete and a 1996 Kenworth ( depending on the Job ) the pete has a 3406 B model with a 13 speed tranny , and the KW has a N14 ( 430 Cummins) with a 18 speed tranny ....... empty I get 6 mpg out of either truck , loaded 3.5 ...... but man I can haul some serious payloads .... Just got done pulling B trains grossing 145 K ......... yeah your pick up with hauling a boat is impressive BWAAAAAAAAAAAa

[Spider]

lol spider......you may have had the worst string of recent luck ever. :pity:

LOL I know damn well she pissed her pants when she looked over and saw smoke off of my breaks and a peterbilt emblem ........

[Man-Goblin]

Those rigs really only get 5 miles/gal. of diesel? That's like a dollar/mile. Sheet.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Hey ****ers I have a big family , I am able to support them , but you damn right I will b**** about fuel prices and all of you that dont like me b****ing can kiss my ass ....... 4.5 -5 mpg , in a truck I use to make my living , you guys with SUV's and pick ups think you have power ? you got tinker toys , they should stamp Fisher price or Matel on the side of them ........they dont have power , Get behind the wheel with a red headed cummins , or a 3406 E model cat , 500 60 series detroit , then we can talk power ........I could take your silly ass 4x4 or SUV and drag it up and down the highway and not even notice it was there ......
Does this BIG talk mean you have a small.....................................never mind. :wave:

[Spider]

Those rigs really only get 5 miles/gal. of diesel? That's like a dollar/mile. Sheet.

yes they do , and it drops with more weight you put on , or wind , hills etc . then you have the cowboy gear jammer types , the ones that just finished up with a trainer and think know how to drive ..... they cowboy them rigs and they get even less mpg .........

[Spider]

Does this BIG talk mean you have a small.....................................never mind. :wave:

I am redneck enough to let you know that asking about my pecker size bothers me :D

[DBroncos4life]

Back in my day we didn't have these fancy birth control methods like today.
You mean like condoms?
No like pulling out.

[ZONA]

$4 gallon gas is here to stay, that's the way it is. Sucks to pay the extra money but this is a major wake up call to this country and all the people who just take energy and fuel for granted. Car companies have only themselves to blame. The reaped the benefits for a long time and had record profits over the past 30 years. Did they care about making cars that would use less gas, not enough I say. Did our government do enough? Hell no, most of the higher ranking politicians had oil lobby mongers to please for campaign paybacks so setting miles per gallon standards higher were barely increased year to year. If our government would have demanded higher standards, auto companies would have delivered. They would have spent the money on research years ago. We should have had 40MPG standards 10 years ago. The problem has always been the richest of the auto CEO's cared mostly about how much they put into their own pockets rather then spending money on research for more efficient vehicles.

Oil isn't going to last forever. We will eventually exhuast the worlds supply. This has been known for years. Enter the dawn of the new age where we finally find more environmentally safe, cleaner and affordable fuels.

We should have learned from Brazil years ago on how to do this. They import no oil. They use sugarcane for ethenol, which produces 40 times that of corn. Wake up American politicians.........WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!!

[Atlas]

$

We should have learned from Brazil years ago on how to do this. They import no oil. They use sugarcane for ethenol, which produces 40 times that of corn. Wake up American politicians.........WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!!

That isn't the answer either. You can't use valuable farmland to fuel our vehicles. That is going down the wrong path,.

Batteries or Electricity is probably the best option.

[LordHelmchen]

You will get used to the prices. Here we still pay double of what you pay. If we would have your gas prices, everybody would want to buy a SUV because gas is so cheap ;D

[Atlas]

You will get used to the prices. Here we still pay double of what you pay. If we would have your gas prices, everybody would want to buy a SUV because gas is so cheap ;D

That is true but we have to drive a lot farther. My commute to work is 60 miles round trip everyday. With no mass transportation available. I think within the next couple of years we will be looking to move and I'll definatley find a place closer to where I work.

[LordHelmchen]

Many people here have a similar commute. Though in general of course you have longer distances to travel.
I heard that about mass transportation a few times now. I wasn't aware that there seems to be lack of public and mass transportation available. Is that a regional thing ?
I'm really lucky because I don't need a car at all. I can walk to work in 10 minutes, though I work in my home office most of the time anyway. And when I need to travel I'm in 20 min at the airport and in 10 min at the main station.
Apart from the money it saves me, I value the time saved much more.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"We're kind of in a pickle," said Erin Thielke, shown with six of her eight kids and their Ford Excursion at their Aurora home.

Eight kids?

Holy crap! Yikes!

Forget fuel economy - somebody get these people some basic information about birth control and/or planned parenthood!

[rugbythug]

That isn't the answer either. You can't use valuable farmland to fuel our vehicles. That is going down the wrong path,.

Batteries or Electricity is probably the best option.

Personal Nuclear Reactors. Everybody needs one. Make it like the Interenet with no base to be broken.

[Los Broncos]

I see a lot of people trying to sell their SUV, don't know why.

[Bronco Jamus]

What about when your decision affects everybody? There is VERY little you can do in life that doesn't have an effect on everyone around you. When people choose to drive a tank they consume gas driving the price up for everyone. They cause unnecessary traffic deaths by running said tank into others. Hell, its hard to park in my building cause whoever has the spot next to me drives a fricking excursion. The point is, your choices DO affect me and asking me to just ignore that fact is short sighted and wrong.

In many ways turning the other cheek and letting folks 'live and let live' got us into this mess.

And for those that insist that they need a big SUV for snow:

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop-460x339/07_Outback_2.5XT2-1_0w.jpg

I have family just outside of Durango who managed to make it through the enormous snowfall they had this year in their Outback, I encourage you to do the same.



It's none of your business what other people drive provided it's lawful. It only bothers you because you let it.

I support people's choices to drive what they want. So if someone says they need whatever for whatever then it's perfectly fine for them to own and operate it.

The outback is a nice vehicle out here and does well on the snow. You can't really haul with it, but you can get from A to B.

I four wheel, haul trailers, sea-doos, quads and other stuff with my SUV, but I don't drive a "Big SUV". I need the vehicle I have to do what I want to do in my free time in any season.

[Tombstone RJ]

I remember one winter in Colorado Springs when the snow was so deep even the 4X4s were getting stuck, but my Dad was able to zip right over to school to pick us up in his little VW bug....hehehe, sucker was so light it just drove on top of the snow...

Wow, your post brought back memories. When I was little, growing up in the springs, we had an old VW Bug. The great thing about those cars is the weight of the engine is over the rear wheels, so if you had good tires, the trackion was excellent, and with a 4 on the floor, you could drive it anywhere. My dad too took us zipping around the neighborhood when no one was driving, pulling the e-brake, to zip around corners and then giving the car gas to get traction and just keep on going... good times.:thumbsup:

[Beantown Bronco]

AP Auto Writers / July 1, 2008

DETROIT—Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday its U.S. sales tumbled 27.9 percent in June as high gas prices and a weak economy continued to cause trouble for Ford and the rest of the auto industry.

For the first half of the year, Ford's sales were down 14 percent compared with the year-ago period.

The company blamed the decline on high gas prices and low consumer confidence, which sent buyers to the sidelines. Ford reported steep drops in June sales of pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles, including a 41 percent year-over-year decline for the F-Series pickup, a perennial best-seller, and a 52 percent drop for the Ford Explorer SUV.

Analysts had predicted June auto sales could drop by double-digits to their lowest monthly rate in 16 years. Already, sales had fallen for seven straight months as of May, the longest period of consecutive monthly drops in eight years, according to the auto information Web site Edmunds.com.

When customers do buy, they're picking smaller cars, crossovers and hybrids. The demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles has been a boon to Japanese automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co., which rely less heavily on trucks and sport utility vehicles than the Detroit Three.

Ford said sales of its smallest car, the Ford Focus, rose 28 percent in the first six months of the year, although Focus sales fell in June. The Dearborn-based automaker said last month it plans to increase production of the Focus as well as the Mercury Mariner and Ford Escape small SUVs.

Ford was the first automaker to report sales data Tuesday.

Ford shares tumbled to a new 52-week low of $4.45 in midday trading, dropping 36 cents, or 7.5 percent. They have traded in a 52-week range of $4.46 to $9.64.

[Meck77]

AP Auto Writers / July 1, 2008

DETROIT—Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday its U.S. sales tumbled 27.9 percent in June as high gas prices and a weak economy continued to cause trouble for Ford and the rest of the auto industry.

For the first half of the year, Ford's sales were down 14 percent compared with the year-ago period.

The company blamed the decline on high gas prices and low consumer confidence, which sent buyers to the sidelines. Ford reported steep drops in June sales of pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles, including a 41 percent year-over-year decline for the F-Series pickup, a perennial best-seller, and a 52 percent drop for the Ford Explorer SUV.

Analysts had predicted June auto sales could drop by double-digits to their lowest monthly rate in 16 years. Already, sales had fallen for seven straight months as of May, the longest period of consecutive monthly drops in eight years, according to the auto information Web site Edmunds.com.

When customers do buy, they're picking smaller cars, crossovers and hybrids. The demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles has been a boon to Japanese automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co., which rely less heavily on trucks and sport utility vehicles than the Detroit Three.

Ford said sales of its smallest car, the Ford Focus, rose 28 percent in the first six months of the year, although Focus sales fell in June. The Dearborn-based automaker said last month it plans to increase production of the Focus as well as the Mercury Mariner and Ford Escape small SUVs.

Ford was the first automaker to report sales data Tuesday.

Ford shares tumbled to a new 52-week low of $4.45 in midday trading, dropping 36 cents, or 7.5 percent. They have traded in a 52-week range of $4.46 to $9.64.

I say good. Maybe the American auto makers will finally get their **** together now.

[PLOWHORSE]

Amen Meck...these clowns just dont get it. It will take time, and many more years of Toyota dominance to get them to provide fruitful change.

[bronco militia]

It's none of your business what other people drive provided it's lawful. It only bothers you because you let it.

I support people's choices to drive what they want. So if someone says they need whatever for whatever then it's perfectly fine for them to own and operate it.

.

no friggen doubt..

[BroncosinDC]

I haven't drove in 3 weeks. I walk to work, the grocery store is a half a block away I go in and grab a few things a couple times a week. I also got a bike for $20 from a buddy who works in the bike shop next to my bar so I can leave 5 mins later for work.

In the meantime I park my truck in the ghetto but am pretty sure the thugs that live there are like, "shoot I can't afford to steal that truck"

Live in the City, its a hundred times better than the Burbs.

[Spider]

I have changed my mind , raise fuel prices so damn high , you need a morgage to fill up .....Here is why


I got attacked tonight by a crazy woman , seriously one of our Drivers got into a fight with her and her boyfriend on outer drive , they followed the other driver on the work site , Our driver said enough is enough , he went ot go pull the boyfriend out of the car , I stopped our Driver from killing this guy , meanwhile this crazy drunk woman ( who was driving ) jumps out and stabs our Driver with a pen , I stop him again from killing her and her boyfriend , then she starts slapping me ........ Moral of the story ..... Raise fuel Prices ****ing high that people can either buy gas or Drink booze , but not at the same time ......

[PaintballCLE]

I have changed my mind , raise fuel prices so damn high , you need a morgage to fill up .....Here is why


I got attacked tonight by a crazy woman , seriously one of our Drivers got into a fight with her and her boyfriend on outer drive , they followed the other driver on the work site , Our driver said enough is enough , he went ot go pull the boyfriend out of the car , I stopped our Driver from killing this guy , meanwhile this crazy drunk woman ( who was driving ) jumps out and stabs our Driver with a pen , I stop him again from killing her and her boyfriend , then she starts slapping me ........ Moral of the story ..... Raise fuel Prices ****ing high that people can either buy gas or Drink booze , but not at the same time ......

Ok by no means am i questioning your credibility.....but if all these things are happening to you over the last few weeks........you really need to play the lotto if you dont already.....things always have a way of evening out....so when they do.....you gotta win the lotto to make up for all this.......(but if you do remember who told you to play :wiggle:

[NW Bolt Fan]

I haven't drove in 3 weeks. I walk to work, the grocery store is a half a block away I go in and grab a few things a couple times a week. I also got a bike for $20 from a buddy who works in the bike shop next to my bar so I can leave 5 mins later for work.

In the meantime I park my truck in the ghetto but am pretty sure the thugs that live there are like, "shoot I can't afford to steal that truck"

Live in the City, its a hundred times better than the Burbs.The first sentence alone is worthy of praise. And you're right. Live close, walk, bike, and actually have to make eye contact with the people that live around you- it might just change a few people's perspectives on life.

[ak1971]

Live in the City, its a hundred times better than the Burbs.

Why so I can get caught up in the gunfire which errupted last week in LoDo? I can do the same things here in the burbs (and I do.) I was just commenting to someone at the local bar (in the evil burbs) how everyone is staying close to home and hanging...oh by the way I just bought a Denali. :wave:

[Spider]

Ok by no means am i questioning your credibility.....but if all these things are happening to you over the last few weeks........you really need to play the lotto if you dont already.....things always have a way of evening out....so when they do.....you gotta win the lotto to make up for all this.......(but if you do remember who told you to play :wiggle:

last thing we need is cops at a job site .....I Just should have let Mike take them both apart , and I stay the hell out of it , but I butted in knowing if Mike goes to jail , I have to pull his share of the workload ...... This had nothing to do with me ... ;D for change .she was screaming he cut her off , he was yelling she cut him off , I told them both I dont give **** who cut who off , no one was hurt , Mike back off , and you you crazy bitch you are Drunk , trespassing and committed assault on 2 people , you best be hitting the road before we all come uncorked here and people go the hospital ......

[Spider]

If this happened off the Job site , I would have enjoyed watching a good ass kicking ;D But man you cant be ****ting in your work space

[wolf754life]

this thread should be Titled: Mike Shannahan Broncos on the Road to Nowhere!!!

[Meck77]

Spider do you have a digital camera that takes video? You should youtube all your trucker chaos.

Along the same line of what you are saying AK I think more Coloradoans are exploring the mountains this summer instead of flying elsewhere. My neck of the woods is packed with front range people which I think is a good thing. The Texans can stay in their humid hell this summer!

[ak1971]

Along the same line of what you are saying AK I think more Coloradoans are exploring the mountains this summer instead of flying elsewhere. My neck of the woods is packed with front range people which I think is a good thing. The Texans can stay in their humid hell this summer!

I would agree Meck ..I've seen many more block parties, juicy home games :yayaya:, than before..so $4 gal gas aint all that bad.

[Spider]

Spider do you have a digital camera that takes video? You should youtube all your trucker chaos.


LOL , no but I have thought about it ...... someone would probably sue me ......there is this one woman , that shows up at 6:15 every morning across the street from our job site ..........naw nevermind

[BroncosinDC]

Why so I can get caught up in the gunfire which errupted last week in LoDo? I can do the same things here in the burbs (and I do.) I was just commenting to someone at the local bar (in the evil burbs) how everyone is staying close to home and hanging...oh by the way I just bought a Denali. :wave:

I live in DC, you want crime come out here. I also live with projects 1 block North and 1 block South, and the Capitol 13 blocks West. But I feel safe, I know crime happens around me but if you are friendly and nice to people you get left alone. I walk home all the time drunk with over $400 bucks in cash on me and unlike Javon get home safe...so far *knock on wood* I have been jumped before at my old house walking home, I got hit in the head with a liquor bottle which shattered on my skull so details of the fight are fuzzy but it ended with me being covered in someone elses blood and keeping my money phone and smokes...the cops later returned my blood covered lighter to me as well.

The burbs aren't evil just not a place for someone who is 23. I could avoid all problems with a cab and sometimes the $5 is worth it. But when you are young single and work in a bar...nothing beats it. They just put in a grocery store about a 1/4 cigarette away and a Subway. I wouldn't live anywhere else. No need to drive, everything I want within a 10 minute walk, and never risk a DUI. Its awesome love the city, grew up in the burbs and don't miss them or really enjoy them when I go home.