What's your feeling about Marcus?

[cmhargrove]

This was a pretty good video from the local CBS affiliate about Marcus Thomas. You can watch it first, then vote.

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=42985@kcnc.dayport.com

So, what kind of player do you think Marcus will be for us? Will he just be an average contributor over the next few years, or will he thrive in our new/old "gap attacking" style of defense. I didn't watch much Florida football, but that (gap attacking style) is where it seems he was able to dominate.

So, watch the video and cast your vote on Marcus in 2008.

[no-pseudo-fan]

It is up to Marcus. He has everything that it takes to be great. I think with Robertson on the other side and improvement at DE he might have a huge year. Teams are going to fear Elvis early, and I think Moss will get a lot of numbers. Then teams will focus on the ends and that is when Thomas and Robertson will make them pay.

[illbroncsfn]

Huge upside to Marcus- but I can't remember the last time that any of these boom or bust supremely talented but character question mark guys worked out for us- and I don't consider Gerard Warren as a success story in 2005-06.....

[Drek]

Your choices suck. Thomas' game lends itself more to rushing the passer, and only a handful of true DTs (not NTs) get 60+ tackles in a season (no defensive lineman period had more than 56 solos either).

I'm expecting about 45 tackles, 35-40 solo, and 6 or 7 sacks. Robertson will lead the DTs in tackles with around 55-60, 45 or so solo and a sack or two.

[colonelbeef]

Your choices suck. Thomas' game lends itself more to rushing the passer, and only a handful of true DTs (not NTs) get 60+ tackles in a season (no defensive lineman period had more than 56 solos either).

I'm expecting about 45 tackles, 35-40 solo, and 6 or 7 sacks. Robertson will lead the DTs in tackles with around 55-60, 45 or so solo and a sack or two.


Agree 100%

[cmhargrove]

Your choices suck. Thomas' game lends itself more to rushing the passer, and only a handful of true DTs (not NTs) get 60+ tackles in a season (no defensive lineman period had more than 56 solos either).

I'm expecting about 45 tackles, 35-40 solo, and 6 or 7 sacks. Robertson will lead the DTs in tackles with around 55-60, 45 or so solo and a sack or two.

Just a question all Bronco fans must face here after reading reports from offseason activities. Aren't you a little worried about Robertson by now? I mean I am a huge homer, but he hasn't even been able to make it through a four day practice week.

I love the "precautionary" talk, but honestly it isn't looking like he will be our d-line anchor. I could be wrong and hope I am.

Don't get me wrong, I think our d-line will significantly improve this year, but Robertson has me officially worried.

[NaptownChief]

Just a question all Bronco fans must face here after reading reports from offseason activities. Aren't you a little worried about Robertson by now? I mean I am a huge homer, but he hasn't even been able to make it through a four day practice week.

I love the "precautionary" talk, but honestly it isn't looking like he will be our d-line anchor. I could be wrong and hope I am.

Don't get me wrong, I think our d-line will significantly improve this year, but Robertson has me officially worried.



The Jets made a huge investment in him and were struggling to get rid of him for much more than a couple used jock straps and a ham sandwich. That being the case I can't imagine the odds being in your favor to get a lot out of him. Anything is possible but we have seen these stories many times before and can't remember hardly any of them working out too well.

[Kaylore]

Robertson will be fine. They are resting him.

As for Thomas, I think he could be good in the scheme that Slowik runs. He didn't fit Bates' scheme, but penetrating DT's are more in line with what Slowik does and Shanahan has used in the past. Thomas put in 100% of his time in the weight room this offseason. His conditioning and greater experience should make much more explosive than he was last year.

[Bronco Jamus]

We got Robertson for almost nothing. Given his history and the fact that he has played, I can't help but think he'll contribute on the field.

[no-pseudo-fan]

Robertson will be fine. They are resting him.

As for Thomas, I think he could be good in the scheme that Slowik runs. He didn't fit Bates' scheme, but penetrating DT's are more in line with what Slowik does and Shanahan has used in the past. Thomas put in 100% of his time in the weight room this offseason. His conditioning and greater experience should make much more explosive than he was last year.

With Robertson's knee, there is no reason to push him in OTA's. Make sure he is in shape, and ready for the grind of the season. Khan is right he will be fine. Thomas is going to be a tough to block this year.^5

[fontaine]

The Jets made a huge investment in him and were struggling to get rid of him for much more than a couple used jock straps and a ham sandwich. That being the case I can't imagine the odds being in your favor to get a lot out of him. Anything is possible but we have seen these stories many times before and can't remember hardly any of them working out too well.

The first line in your post is key here.

The Broncos made very little investment in Robertson. A conditional draft pick that the Jets won't get because he will be played in rotation and $3million each year if he makes it past cuts. If he plays like he has before then that would be a great return on the relatively small investment in him.

In other words, the FO didn't "Tommy Kelly" themselves.

[PRBronco]

The Jets made a huge investment in him and were struggling to get rid of him for much more than a couple used jock straps and a ham sandwich. That being the case I can't imagine the odds being in your favor to get a lot out of him. Anything is possible but we have seen these stories many times before and can't remember hardly any of them working out too well.

The Jets couldn't unload him because his contract was an abomination, not for lack of people intersted in him. His trade was always pending a restructure of his contract.

[Drek]

Just a question all Bronco fans must face here after reading reports from offseason activities. Aren't you a little worried about Robertson by now? I mean I am a huge homer, but he hasn't even been able to make it through a four day practice week.

I love the "precautionary" talk, but honestly it isn't looking like he will be our d-line anchor. I could be wrong and hope I am.

Don't get me wrong, I think our d-line will significantly improve this year, but Robertson has me officially worried.
I don't see any reason to think that Robertson isn't legitimately just being rested in these early camps. Its status quo for veterans to sit out at least a day or two a week during our camps and even into preseason.

So unless you think the health of half our starters is equally in question your skepticism in regards to Robertson is unfounded.

He's got a bone on bone in one knee. Its been that way since basically college and it never stopped him then. Randy Johnson had the same condition and had two of the best years of his career after the fact, and that is for a guy who plants and pushes off that leg with all the aggression he can muster 100+ times a start, plus side sessions and warm ups, when he was near 40.

Its a whole lot of nothing. Robertson might miss time with the knee issue, but he also is almost as likely to miss time from any other possible injury under the sun.


The Jets made a huge investment in him and were struggling to get rid of him for much more than a couple used jock straps and a ham sandwich. That being the case I can't imagine the odds being in your favor to get a lot out of him. Anything is possible but we have seen these stories many times before and can't remember hardly any of them working out too well.

Robertson was available for basically nothing because Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers, and Marcus Stroud all changed addresses in the same off-season, an off-season where the going rate for a pro-bowl DT was only a 3rd and 5th round pick. Robertson also had more money on his deal than any of those three, making the renegotiation of said deal more difficult.

He's in no way guaranteed to be a stud, but he's proven himself a solid run stopper and I'd expect him to do the same for us like he has the last several years, without missing a game, for the Jets.

[PRBronco]

Ewww I saw Amon Gordon in that video.

[BroncoBuff]

I still think we got 1st round talent in the 4th round, but we didn't really get him in the 4th round. Remember we gave up our THIRD rounder THIS year for him, plus the 6th and 7th last year. And after this draft where we snagged Spencer Larsen, Josh Barrett and Peyton Hillis, somehow 6th and 7th rounders seem far more valuable.

DTs Marcus Harrison and Pat Sims were both still available couppla months ago with the 3rd round pick we gave up for Marcus (not to mention Andre Fluellen, Dre Moore and Red Bryant), so Marcus Thomas better turn out better than those five AND THEN SOME, or it was not such a great deal after all. And I WILL BE WATCHING chefs RB Jamaal Charles from Texas - he was the player eventually chosen with the 3rd rounder we gave up.

[BroncoBuff]

Ewww I saw Amon Gordon in that video.
ROFL! Get busy gettin' clean, son ...
http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/post-lava.jpg

[Gcver2ver3]

i have absolutely no idea how marcus will do this upcoming season...

i couldn't vote at this point...

all i can do is hope he'll do well...which of course i do...

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Marcus is a million dollar talent with a 5 cent head. Name one instance where this has worked out in our favor.

[theAPAOps5]

Dr. Bronc sure is begninning to sound like Wolf and Telluride.

[Kaylore]

Marcus is a million dollar talent with a 5 cent head. Name one instance where this has worked out in our favor.

Gerrard Warren and Romo. Thomas is one I'm not worried about. I really think he's done (messing around).

[TheReverend]

The poll options are rough... I think he'll have a few sacks but think 60-70 tackles is absurd...

[cmhargrove]

The poll options are rough... I think he'll have a few sacks but think 60-70 tackles is absurd...

That's why you have several choices.

Instead of being "absurd," maybe you could just say option two with more sacks. Maybe i'm just a glass half full guy...

[TheReverend]

That's why you have several choices.

Instead of being "absurd," maybe you could just say option two with more sacks. Maybe i'm just a glass half full guy...

But "absurd" is a very accurate word for it. I can't remember a Broncos DT within the past several years even cracking 30 tackles.

Gerard Warrens contract year (not the bad toes year) where he earned a big pay-day extension saw 19 tackles...

[cmhargrove]

I still think we got 1st round talent in the 4th round, but we didn't really get him in the 4th round. Remember we gave up our THIRD rounder THIS year for him, plus the 6th and 7th last year. And after this draft where we snagged Spencer Larsen, Josh Barrett and Peyton Hillis, somehow 6th and 7th rounders seem far more valuable.

DTs Marcus Harrison and Pat Sims were both still available couppla months ago with the 3rd round pick we gave up for Marcus (not to mention Andre Fluellen, Dre Moore and Red Bryant), so Marcus Thomas better turn out better than those five AND THEN SOME, or it was not such a great deal after all. And I WILL BE WATCHING chefs RB Jamaal Charles from Texas - he was the player eventually chosen with the 3rd rounder we gave up.

You might double check this, I thought Charles went to the Chiefs, and we traded with Minnesota last year for the Marcus Thomas pick. I think...

[BroncoBuff]

You might double check this, I thought Charles went to the Chiefs, and we traded with Minnesota last year for the Marcus Thomas pick. I think...

I dunno, I'll check that out. I thought the pick ended up with KC.

[TheReverend]

I dunno, I'll check that out. I thought the pick ended up with KC.

As part of the Jared Allen trade, I believe you are correct, sir.

[cmhargrove]

But "absurd" is a very accurate word for it. I can't remember a Broncos DT within the past several years even cracking 30 tackles.

Gerard Warrens contract year (not the bad toes year) where he earned a big pay-day extension saw 19 tackles...

I threw it up there as a top end "breakout" choice - it is a poll with choices, you see.

Kelley Gregg, NT for the Ravens got 80 tackles last year.
There were four or five other DT's that got 60-70 tackles. It's within the realm of possibility, that's why i included it in a poll.

I think things that are within the realm of standard practice as maybe "far-fetched" or "unlikely," but that doesn't make them "absurd."

[cmhargrove]

As part of the Jared Allen trade, I believe you are correct, sir.

I get it. That's pretty cool actually. It went from the Vikings, to the Cheifs for Allen.

So, the Marcus Thomas deal helped get Jared Allen out of the division - priceless.

[BroncoBuff]

So, the Marcus Thomas deal helped get Jared Allen out of the division - priceless.
Whoa! So as long as Jamaal Charles svcks then, that's another big plus for Marcus Thomas! ROFL!

[TheReverend]

I threw it up there as a top end "breakout" choice - it is a poll with choices, you see.

Kelley Gregg, NT for the Ravens got 80 tackles last year.
There were four or five other DT's that got 60-70 tackles. It's within the realm of possibility, that's why i included it in a poll.

I think things that are within the realm of standard practice as maybe "far-fetched" or "unlikely," but that doesn't make them "absurd."

That's not quite my point... I don't consider tackles from that spot breaking out. I consider disrupting a play breaking out.

For example, here's our leading DT stats for the past 4 years:


2007
Marcus 19 tackles
McKinley 15 tackles

2006
Myers 57 tackles
Warren 30 tackles

2005
Myers 31 tackles
Veal 25 tackles
Warren 19 tackles

2004
Pope 24 tackles
Fatafehi 20 tackles

Warren earned the big contract while being #3 at his "position" (even thought its not the same position) behind Myers and Veal.

2005 we had an amazing run defense but if you look at the DL tackle numbers, you'd never know, but jog the mental rollodex and you can remember how disruptive the DL was and how the entire defense could flow to the ball within 2 yards.

It's nothing against you, I just don't like your poll options.

[Greybeard]

Did anybody notice the guns on Jarvis Moss in the video? zowie!

Looks as if Thomas isn't the only one to have frequented the weight room . . .

-----

[Inkana7]

Mike Myers led DTs in tackles two years in a row? I don't think I ever noticed him make any sort of play, ever.

[TheReverend]

Mike Myers led DTs in tackles two years in a row? I don't think I ever noticed him make any sort of play, ever.

Exactly! In fact that 57 tackle season is dramatically higher than every other DT on the list, and what did his "break-out" earn him?

A one-way ticket to Cincinnati.

[Inkana7]

I used to refer to Myers as the "Human Blocking Dummy".

[TheReverend]

Albert Haynesworth had a legitimate shot at being DPOY last season... he broke out with a whopping 32 tackles...

[Inkana7]

Haynesworth WOULD have won it if he hadn't been hurt for as long as he was. Bob Sanders was hurt too, but not as long as Haynesworth was.

[TheReverend]

Correction, that's 32 solo but 40 total, so we'll give him 40. He also missed 3.5 games with injury, so projecting the numbers for a full season, still under 50 tackles from the most dominant DT performance in years.

[azbroncfan]

My feeling on Thomas is at any moment he will do something stupid and end up in prison or jail and won't be a bronco.

[cmhargrove]

That's not quite my point... I don't consider tackles from that spot breaking out. I consider disrupting a play breaking out.

For example, here's our leading DT stats for the past 4 years:


2007
Marcus 19 tackles
McKinley 15 tackles

2006
Myers 57 tackles
Warren 30 tackles

2005
Myers 31 tackles
Veal 25 tackles
Warren 19 tackles

2004
Pope 24 tackles
Fatafehi 20 tackles

Warren earned the big contract while being #3 at his "position" (even thought its not the same position) behind Myers and Veal.

2005 we had an amazing run defense but if you look at the DL tackle numbers, you'd never know, but jog the mental rollodex and you can remember how disruptive the DL was and how the entire defense could flow to the ball within 2 yards.

It's nothing against you, I just don't like your poll options.


Ok, i get it.

So, maybe you would say 30 tackles and 4 sacks would still make him a pretty valuable part of the line?

[Inkana7]

30 and 4 from a DT would be Pro Bowl-caliber.

[TheReverend]

Ok, i get it.

So, maybe you would say 30 tackles and 4 sacks would still make him a pretty valuable part of the line?

If he's 3 tech? I'd still consider 0 tackles and 0 sacks a valuable part of the line if he can even semi-consistently make a QB roll out of the pocket or into Jarvis/Elvis, and if he can semi-consistently make a RB bounce the play to the outside where he can get blind-sided by DJ/Boss.

I don't care what his stats are as long he brings a touch of chaos with him.

[bowtown]

I used to refer to Myers as the "Human Blocking Dummy".

Yet he still would have been the DT on our roster last year had we kept him. :oyvey:

I'm pulling for Marcus and Robertson as hard as a guy can cause if neither of them step up this year, it's going to be another long one.

[TheReverend]

Yet he still would have been the DT on our roster last year had we kept him. :oyvey:

That's usually how that works... :wiggle:

I'm pulling for Marcus and Robertson as hard as a guy can cause if neither of them step up this year, it's going to be another long one.

.

[bowtown]

Yet he still would have been the DT on our roster last year had we kept him.

That's usually how that works...

I'm pulling for Marcus and Robertson as hard as a guy can cause if neither of them step up this year, it's going to be another long one.

LOL. I don't really like to pin myself down to just one side of a statement or issue. I tend to leave the qualifiers out so that people can fill them in as they see fit. That way, I'm _____ right in _______ eyes.

[Northman]

Option 2.

[Kaylore]

Did anybody notice the guns on Jarvis Moss in the video? zowie!

Looks as if Thomas isn't the only one to have frequented the weight room . . .

-----

Yeah. His wing span is huge too. I haven't seen him in awhile. I'm telling you guys, the only stopping Moss from being awesome is his durability.

[kmonty]

This year's entire defensive line is just so boom or bust. All we need is two of the new young guys to excel. They'll improve the play of the guys around them in the process. Then we're talking about a dominant defensive line. BOOM.

If we get hit too hard with injuries, we're counting on young guys with limited experience to take the reigns again. While I think they'll be better than last year, it still won't be good enough. BUST.

[ICON]

Marcus also has to be able to think very quickly and react to anything as if it is instinct. My feeling is he will be better at his job this year witch i feel is not to block or get tied up in a block, but rather to be athletic and get himself into the offensive backfield and disrupt their plans.

[Drek]

I threw it up there as a top end "breakout" choice - it is a poll with choices, you see.

Kelley Gregg, NT for the Ravens got 80 tackles last year.
There were four or five other DT's that got 60-70 tackles. It's within the realm of possibility, that's why i included it in a poll.

I think things that are within the realm of standard practice as maybe "far-fetched" or "unlikely," but that doesn't make them "absurd."

NT in a 3-4 is entirely different than either DT role in a 4-3. Check the tackle numbers, every interior DL that has a lot of tackles is a nose in a 3-4 system, or someone like Haloti Ngata who plays in a 3-4 and 4-3 hybrid D.

My feeling on Thomas is at any moment he will do something stupid and end up in prison or jail and won't be a bronco.
What gives you that impression?

Marcus Thomas smoked a bunch of weed in college. Over 50% of all college students do it. The only difference is that he failed a piss test and rubbed Urban Meyer the wrong way. Last time I checked those weren't grounds for a felony indictment.

And he's obviously been pissing clean since joining the league, the NFL does drug screen FYI, and he passed a drug test in the off-season, when 75% of the league is stoned off their asses anyways.

[DenverBrit]

Marcus also has to be able to think very quickly and react to anything as if it is instinct. My feeling is he will be better at his job this year witch i feel is not to block or get tied up in a block, but rather to be athletic and get himself into the offensive backfield and disrupt their plans.

Exactly!
Slowic will design a scheme to suit the talent.
As opposed to creating last year's scheme that didn't work and no one understood anyway.
D line will be a big improvement this year.

[Greybeard]

My feeling on Thomas is at any moment he will do something stupid and end up in prison or jail and won't be a bronco.

Goodness, AZ. I hate coming back on a fellow Arizona bud, but taking a toke or
two is not the equivalent of hijacking cars out of supermarket parking lots.

I'm not worried.

-----

[Crushaholic]

Dr. Bronc sure is begninning to sound like Wolf and Telluride.

He never said it was Shanahan's fault...

Anyway, I think Marcus Thomas is going to be exactly who I thought he was going to be when we drafted him...a good situational player.

[azbroncfan]

Goodness, AZ. I hate coming back on a fellow Arizona bud, but taking a toke or
two is not the equivalent of hijacking cars out of supermarket parking lots.

I'm not worried.

-----

What about the cocaine charges that were dropped because his buddy took the heat? It's obvious he is hanging around the same crowd he got in trouble with in college.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

NT in a 3-4 is entirely different than either DT role in a 4-3. Check the tackle numbers, every interior DL that has a lot of tackles is a nose in a 3-4 system, or someone like Haloti Ngata who plays in a 3-4 and 4-3 hybrid D.


What gives you that impression?

Marcus Thomas smoked a bunch of weed in college. Over 50% of all college students do it. The only difference is that he failed a piss test and rubbed Urban Meyer the wrong way. Last time I checked those weren't grounds for a felony indictment.

And he's obviously been pissing clean since joining the league, the NFL does drug screen FYI, and he passed a drug test in the off-season, when 75% of the league is stoned off their asses anyways.

Where do you get these statistics?

Regarding the general pesimissm toward's Marcus Thomas expressed by myself and other posters: it is a combination of problems. He is on an admitidly short leash... both in the eyes of Broncos management and the rest of NFL that passed on him in the draft... and he continues to run with the wrong crowd. I really don't care if he or "75%" of the league smokes weed... that is an entirely different argument. Every time we take a flyer on some guy with a troubled history, dissapointment seems to follow. I will admit, the risk is not great with a 4th rounder... but I will be very suprised if Marcus makes a long term contribution to the team.

[Inkana7]

What about the cocaine charges that were dropped because his buddy took the heat? It's obvious he is hanging around the same crowd he got in trouble with in college.

What's forgotten is that the drugs were found in his friends car, because his friend was taking him home because Marcus thought he had drank too much to drive.

That bastard!

[azbroncfan]

What gives you that impression?

Marcus Thomas smoked a bunch of weed in college. Over 50% of all college students do it. The only difference is that he failed a piss test and rubbed Urban Meyer the wrong way. Last time I checked those weren't grounds for a felony indictment.

And he's obviously been pissing clean since joining the league, the NFL does drug screen FYI, and he passed a drug test in the off-season, when 75% of the league is stoned off their asses anyways.

You can make all the excuses you want, justify it with whatever reason, but he hasn't shown me yet that he is out of the clear because he is still running with wrong crowd. All I said is it was my feelings on him and I hope he cleans up his act but I'm not confident in him.

[Drek]

What about the cocaine charges that were dropped because his buddy took the heat? It's obvious he is hanging around the same crowd he got in trouble with in college.

He got a ride home from a party, and passed a drug test only hours after the arrest.

So how exactly did his buddy "take the heat"? He was just toting the coke around, stored in another person's car, without actually using it? That makes a ton of sense.

You are simply hating on a guy because you heard he had a bad rep coming out of college.


Regarding the general pesimissm toward's Marcus Thomas expressed by myself and other posters: it is a combination of problems. He is on an admitidly short leash... both in the eyes of Broncos management and the rest of NFL that passed on him in the draft...

So I guess we should all be expecting Josh Barrett and Peyton Hillis to be problems and be off the team in short order as well right? They both slid further in the draft than Thomas, thanks to their college coaches poisoning the waters.

A lot of guys get blackballed when their collegiate program changes coaching regimes or when a player buts heads with a coach from time to time. I don't see anything regarding Marcus Thomas' record that would make me say he's a future felon. And as for his ability to contribute to this team, well, he was a 4th round pick, the percentage of 4th rounders who pan out is pretty small. Thomas was a risk pick but it has more to do with his lack of football experience and time off between college and getting drafted than any off field incidences.

He isn't part of the league's substance abuse policy, he's never been suspended, and he's never been under review to be suspended. Until one of those events happens why not just simply reserve judgment.

[Greybeard]

What about the cocaine charges that were dropped because his buddy took the heat? It's obvious he is hanging around the same crowd he got in trouble with in college.

Seems to me you're assuming a lot. Had this happened in Marcus' vehicle, I
would be less inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that his buddy "took
the heat." Marcus needed to learn to stop hanging around with those people,
yes, (and I hope he has), but all that did was to put him in a situation where
he could be implicated, but it did not connote any guilt.

If you are caught in a vehicle that has drugs in it, the odds are overwhelming
that you will be busted. That the charges were dropped speaks volumes to me.

-----

[broncosteven]

Marcus is a million dollar talent with a 5 cent head. Name one instance where this has worked out in our favor.

Dale Carter



Oh, I see your point...

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Did anybody notice the guns on Jarvis Moss in the video? zowie!

Looks as if Thomas isn't the only one to have frequented the weight room . . .

-----

Agreed, looks like he glued on an extra pair of shoulders. I think we may be surprised just how much the D-Line improves this season.

[broncosteven]

Agreed, looks like he glued on an extra pair of shoulders. I think we may be surprised just how much the D-Line improves this season.

At least Last years D line draft won't be any worse than the year Shanny picked that Nick Eason guy and some other scrub only to have Eason flee camp, come back then never make the team...

[azbroncfan]

He got a ride home from a party, and passed a drug test only hours after the arrest.

So how exactly did his buddy "take the heat"? He was just toting the coke around, stored in another person's car, without actually using it? That makes a ton of sense.

You are simply hating on a guy because you heard he had a bad rep coming out of college.



So I guess we should all be expecting Josh Barrett and Peyton Hillis to be problems and be off the team in short order as well right? .

Did I say anything about Barrett or Hillis? All I'm saying is Marcus still was hanging with the shady crowd and it will catch up to him. Spin or defend however you like.

[Los Broncos]

Good video, I really hope he can stick to his guns.

He should play pretty well this year if that's the case.

[Atwater His Ass]

I belive Marcus is in a unique situation that he can be as good as he wants to be. The question is, how bad does he want it?

I voted not based on the stats, but that he will improve and be a strong contributer to the team. I still think he needs one more year at this level before he can start to become an elite player. This kid is in a transition and I can only hope he has or can soon get someone in his life to help him and guide him through this period in his life so he doesn't waste his ability.

God knows how naive I was at his age, and I obvisoulsy didn't have to deal with the pressure of being an NFL player.

[DBroncos4life]

LOL when is the last time a tackle had more then 50 tackles for the Broncos? If anyone will do it it will be D Rob. Thomas will get 5 plus sacks for us.

[Drek]

Did I say anything about Barrett or Hillis? All I'm saying is Marcus still was hanging with the shady crowd and it will catch up to him. Spin or defend however you like.

Try and understand how the system of quote > response, quote > response on a message board works.

The good doctor made a strong inference that Marcus Thomas' draft slide was an indicator of bad character. Barrett and Hillis also both slid significantly further than expected, which reportedly was caused by poor character references by their coaches. Urban Meyer pretty obviously did the same for Thomas, so that alone is not a good way to judge a player's character.

[Orange_Beard]

He will get better as a player, if he pulls his head out.

However, every time I see his name, my first thought is what did he do this time.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Try and understand how the system of quote > response, quote > response on a message board works.

The good doctor made a strong inference that Marcus Thomas' draft slide was an indicator of bad character. Barrett and Hillis also both slid significantly further than expected, which reportedly was caused by poor character references by their coaches. Urban Meyer pretty obviously did the same for Thomas, so that alone is not a good way to judge a player's character.

Apples and oranges comparison. Neither Hillis or Barrett were kicked off their respective teams for drug related problems. Neither was considered top 5 draft talent either. If it was only a matter of Thomas having a personality conflict with his coach, it would have been sorted out before the draft. Look at Darrent Williams... did his stock slide significantly because he had a problem with his coach?

Thomas was arguably the most talented DT in the nation, and he slid to the 4th round. There were real skeletons in his closet... probably more than we'll ever know about... that scared off the entire NFL from drafting this guy. And right after the draft, Shanny basically said its Marcus' one and only shot. Yet he winds up in a car where someone is busted for cocaine.

I'm not saying he's a bad guy... he just isn't very smart. His previous actions in college cost him millions of dollars... and he is on an admitidly short leash... yet he continued to run with the wrong crowd. I hope he does well. I just don't expect it.

[Drek]

I don't think anyone would confuse Marcus Thomas with a member of MENSA, but the biggest problem is his lack of maturity.

Personally I think that is what ultimately caused his slide. Meyer could grind the axe by pointing to him failing a drug test, being warned, and doing the exact same thing again.

As my grandmother used to say, "monkey learn the first time". To make the same mistake shows a glaring lake of maturity, which Meyer used as motivation to kick him off the team and blackball him throughout the league.

Its a more extreme case than what happened to Hillis, Barrett, or even DWill (whom I think was every bit as talented as 6th overall pick Adam Jones, yet bad coach rep made him slide further than a known douche bag who didn't have a bad coach experience). But ultimately its the same kind of scenario. A college coach can do a lot to hurt or help a kid's draft stock, and Meyer certainly did nothing to help Thomas'.

He does need to grow up and cut ties with his roots. Same with Marshall. But these are young guys who their whole lives have been reminded to "keep it real" when they make it and not to "forget where they came from". That mesage is given the wrong way. They should keep it real and not forget their rough upbringings by giving back to the community, not hangnig with the same crew of thugs, no matter how much you feel you owe them.

They both obviously aren't bad guys. Thomas has nothing remotely close to a violent crime on his record and Marshall has yet to have anything proven from dozens of accusations his ex has thrown out while dedicating a good amount of his time to youth programs. They clearly don't have a broken moral compass, just not the maturity to always listen to it.

That might come with time, it might not. But I'm more worried about them actually being the kind of talent worth this much discussion than I am them getting ran out of the league. If a thug like Travis Henry can have as long and effective a career as he's seen despite being a POS with injury problems I don't have too much concerns about the league cracking down on us in the immediate future.

[BroncoBuff]

I don't think anyone would confuse Marcus Thomas with a member of MENSA, but the biggest problem is his lack of maturity.
There's a clue in that story why this is correct ... they use several sond bites from Jarvis Moss, but just one or two from Thomas. That's a dead giveaway they didn't have too many decent bites to string together in the story, not much to go on.

[NaptownChief]

Robertson was available for basically nothing because Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers, and Marcus Stroud all changed addresses in the same off-season, an off-season where the going rate for a pro-bowl DT was only a 3rd and 5th round pick. Robertson also had more money on his deal than any of those three, making the renegotiation of said deal more difficult.




Maybe but my point is not what other teams were willing to give for him but rather the fact the Jets wanted to get rid of him for virtually nothing after already making a big investment. Teams that make a big investment in a player obviously for pride and financial reasons desparately want to get a good return on the investment. The fact the Jets were more than wiling to give up on him is the red flag in this picture as they have all the inside scoop.

[enjolras]

We've gotten through a year and Thomas has by and large been a model citizen from what I can tell. The drug thing, in my mind, was absolutely nothing. Hell I played golf the other day with a guy who had a bag of weed in the cart we where sharing... I guess that makes me a future felon?

To be honest, the lack of news about Thomas has been a pleasant surprise for me. He seems to be on the right track, he is definitely saying the right things, and I fully expect a really good year out of him.

[Drek]

Maybe but my point is not what other teams were willing to give for him but rather the fact the Jets wanted to get rid of him for virtually nothing after already making a big investment. Teams that make a big investment in a player obviously for pride and financial reasons desparately want to get a good return on the investment. The fact the Jets were more than wiling to give up on him is the red flag in this picture as they have all the inside scoop.

He's a prototypical 4-3 DT who lacks the size to be a real NT anchor.

They got Kris Jenkins for a reasonable price in a trade, who does have the size and strength to be an NT anchor.

Robertson was due about $11M.

I wouldn't say they gave up on him, but realized that paying a guy $11 million for a season of football in which he wasn't really going to fit your scheme, well that's just not how a smart football team is ran.

I'm from the northeast and have talked with many Jet fans who think Robertson is a very good player, just wasted as a 3-4 NT. Lot of them think we got a steal, and are just hoping he gets enough snaps for them to get a real payoff instead of a late 2nd day pick.

[azbroncfan]

Try and understand how the system of quote > response, quote > response on a message board works.

The good doctor made a strong inference that Marcus Thomas' draft slide was an indicator of bad character. Barrett and Hillis also both slid significantly further than expected, which reportedly was caused by poor character references by their coaches. Urban Meyer pretty obviously did the same for Thomas, so that alone is not a good way to judge a player's character.


What do Barrett and Hillis have to do with Thomas other than they weren't near the talent and slid farther? The title of the thread is What's your feeling about Marcus? and I responded by saying I think he will get in trouble at some point and not be a bronco. TO ME he hasn't proved anything about staying on the wagon.

[NaptownChief]

I'm from the northeast and have talked with many Jet fans who think Robertson is a very good player,


I knew several Chief fans that thought Ryan Simms was a good player also. ;D

[Atlas]

It is up to Marcus. He has everything that it takes to be great. I think with Robertson on the other side and improvement at DE he might have a huge year. Teams are going to fear Elvis early, and I think Moss will get a lot of numbers. Then teams will focus on the ends and that is when Thomas and Robertson will make them pay.

Don't forget about McKinnley. He will now be a very good rotational 3rd DT. I love this team. I just hope they all stay out of trouble.

[sixtimeseight]

Maybe but my point is not what other teams were willing to give for him but rather the fact the Jets wanted to get rid of him for virtually nothing after already making a big investment. Teams that make a big investment in a player obviously for pride and financial reasons desparately want to get a good return on the investment. The fact the Jets were more than wiling to give up on him is the red flag in this picture as they have all the inside scoop.

Learn it, love it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy)