Shannon Sharpe on NFL top tight ends...

[tsiguy96]

hes #4...and if you were to ask NFL network, he was a raven almost all his career. without exaggeration, half of the highlights they showed, if not more, were from his one year with the ravens. it should be on NFL.com now

[montrose]

I was just about to post about that. It will probably help Shannon get into the Hall since Baltimore is on the East Coast, but watching that package you'd think Shannon spent 12 years in Baltimore and 2 in Denver.

[Kaylore]

Yeah I saw that too. It's hard to disagree with their list though. Gonzo at 8 and Gates at 10 had me laughing.Ha!

[broncofan7]

It was ridiculous---and did Kellen Winslow SR. have better stats than Shannon? I could not believe that he was ranked #2.

Sharpe: <TABLE class=infobox style="WIDTH: 20em"><TBODY><TR><TD align=right>Receptions </TD><TD align=left> 815</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>Receiving yards </TD><TD align=left> 10,060</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>Touchdowns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchdown) </TD><TD align=left> 62

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Winslow: <TABLE class=infobox style="WIDTH: 20em"><TBODY><TR><TD align=right>Receptions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reception_%28American_football%29) </TD><TD align=left> 541</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>Receiving Yards </TD><TD align=left> 6,741</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>Touchdowns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchdowns) </TD><TD align=left> 45</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[TheReverend]

It was ridiculous---and did Kellen Winslow SR. have better stats than Shannon? I could not believe that he was ranked #2.

No, but seasons were also shorter and he's kinda the guy that changed the position, so........

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Gonzalez should be in the top five at least, if not the top three. That's horrible.

[broncofan7]

Seeing those John Mackey highlights--that guy was a beast----but honestly---here is my top 5

1) Sharpe
2) Mackey
3) Gonzo
4) Ditka
5) Kellen Winslow

[dbfan21]

No, but seasons were also shorter and he's kinda the guy that changed the position, so........

I agree with you, but Shannon's dual threat of speed and size also changed the position as well.

[TheReverend]

I agree with you, but Shannon's dual threat of speed and size also changed the position as well.

Hey, Shannon is, and probably will be, my favorite TE of all time, I just can't really argue with Winslow being higher is all.

[Hotrod]

nothing on Mustard what a crock of ****

[Bronco Jamus]

nothing on Mustard what a crock of ****

LOL

[Bronco Jamus]

So what was the full list.

I bet Newsome was on there too.

[Bronco Jamus]

Hey, Shannon is, and probably will be, my favorite TE of all time, I just can't really argue with Winslow being higher is all.

I could from a Championship perspective. Shannon Sharpe was KEY to gaining both the ones we have.

[Bronco Jamus]

Gonzalez should be in the top five at least, if not the top three. That's horrible.

Top 5 maybe, absolutely top 10. He's got the stats to be number 1

[epicSocialism4tw]

Any TE list without Shannon at the very top is a crock and not worthy of any other comment.

[BigPlayShay]

I could from a Championship perspective. Shannon Sharpe was KEY to gaining both the ones we have.

Not to mention "blocking" for a 2,000 yard rusher in 98.

[Kaylore]

All you have to do is see what the other tight ends did. Ditka, Mackey those guys caught passes with great ability, but they broke tackles like running backs, and they blocked like linemen. Sharpe was one of the greatest, but the top spots should go to the tight ends with the most complete game.

[Bronco Jamus]

All you have to do is see what the other tight ends did. Ditka, Mackey those guys caught passes with great ability, but they broke tackles like running backs, and they blocked like linemen. Sharpe was one of the greatest, but the top spots should go to the tight ends with the most complete game.

That is a good point.

I still haven't seen the list, but Mark Bravro should be up there as well. At least top 12.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

All you have to do is see what the other tight ends did. Ditka, Mackey those guys caught passes with great ability, but they broke tackles like running backs, and they blocked like linemen. Sharpe was one of the greatest, but the top spots should go to the tight ends with the most complete game.

Agreed. Shannon was never really known for his blocking, though its something he improved upon. He ushered in that modern tight end thats essentially a very large receiver, so his place in history is noted as he revolutionized the position.

Claiming that his championships or the fact that he blocked for a 2,000 rusher shouldnt really enter the equation. For one, the "champion to reflect career success" argument, while probably silly to begin with, is usually reserved for QB's. As for the 2,000 yards? I think Jones, Schlereth, Nalen, Neil, Swayne, Carswell, Griffith (god i hope im getting those right) had more to do with it than Sharpe.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

You want broken tackles?

http://i29.tinypic.com/6p3rrs.gif

[alkemical]

Agreed. Shannon was never really known for his blocking, though its something he improved upon. He ushered in that modern tight end thats essentially a very large receiver, so his place in history is noted as he revolutionized the position.

Claiming that his championships or the fact that he blocked for a 2,000 rusher shouldnt really enter the equation. For one, the "champion to reflect career success" argument, while probably silly to begin with, is usually reserved for QB's. As for the 2,000 yards? I think Jones, Schlereth, Nalen, Neil, Swayne, Carswell, Griffith (god i hope im getting those right) had more to do with it than Sharpe.

No offense man - but not counting the downfield blocking of the WR's & the TE to seal off the edge is horrible man...horrible...

[TheReverend]

You want broken tackles?

http://i29.tinypic.com/6p3rrs.gif

Wow, an entire careers worth and the best you find is another 6 whole yards!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Wow, an entire careers worth and the best you find is another 6 whole yards!

Let's see you disparage this one, then:

http://i28.tinypic.com/5oz6hf.gif

[kmonty]

Let's see you disparage this one, then:

http://i28.tinypic.com/5oz6hf.gif

What, he can't even outrun the guy?

[tsiguy96]

wow bob is pathetic. the broncos managed to feed sharpe the ball when they had smith and eddiemac catching. what other good WR have teh chiefs had...ever?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

wow bob is pathetic. the broncos managed to feed sharpe the ball when they had smith and eddiemac catching. what other good WR have teh chiefs had...ever?

Quarterbacks routinely attempt 500 passes a year. Your argument really doesn't have a leg to stand on.

However, it's worth noting Gonzalez never had John Elway.

[BroncoBuff]

wow bob is pathetic. the broncos managed to feed sharpe the ball when they had smith and eddiemac catching. what good WR have the chiefs had...ever?

It's been awhile ...

http://www.conigliofamily.com/images/OtisTaylorFrontSmall_small.jpg

[tsiguy96]

its also worth noting that this thread is about how nfl network ****ed the broncos again, not how much better sharpe was then gonzalez.

[epicSocialism4tw]

All you have to do is see what the other tight ends did. Ditka, Mackey those guys caught passes with great ability, but they broke tackles like running backs, and they blocked like linemen. Sharpe was one of the greatest, but the top spots should go to the tight ends with the most complete game.

Sharpe was the most dominant offensive weapon ever to line up at the position. He was also an effective blocker. Not to mention that his mere presence on the field altered coverage to move a blitzer out of the box.

Picking a guy because of style of play doesnt make alot of sense. It changes from era to era and no one knows how a player would translate.

So, you have to look at them juxtaposed in their era, where Sharpe was clearly the best by a landslide and showed that he is in the pantheon of greats.

Sharpe has the statistics to prove his worth. Not to mention the immeasureables that you seem to value more than production. Those other guys' reputations remain mythologically inflated because of good ol' days syndrome.

Until you can come up with a detailed statistical analysis of "tough guy plays" and blocking statistics, this argument is kind of silly.

Shannon's the greatest. Period.

[Florida_Bronco]

I don't think anyone will ever say (with a straight face) that Gonzalez was better than Sharpe.

[Kaylore]

Sharpe was the most dominant offensive weapon ever to line up at the position. He was also an effective blocker.

Picking a guy because of style of play doesnt make alot of sense. It changes from era to era and no one knows how a player would translate.

So, you have to look at them juxtaposed in their era, where Sharpe was clearly the best by a landslide and showed that he is in the pantheon of greats.

Sharpe has the statistics to prove his worth. Not to mention the immeasureables that you seem to value more than production. Those other guys' reputations remain mythologically inflated because of good ol' days syndrome.

Sharpe's blocking was marginal compared to the others and using your own argument, that we need to factor in the era, then the numbers guys like Ditka and Mackey put up in simplified, run first offenses would probably be much higher on teams that were designed to pass more. When you look at tight ends, you need to say who is the best at doing everything that a tight end has to do. Sharpe is not the best at doing everything. While he was a good blocker, he wasn't dominant. I would put him in my top five - maybe top three. But he's not the best tight end to play the game. That's pretty obvious.

[Broncomutt]

My favorite Sharpe moment will always be him getting under Derrick Thomas' skin in a MNF rout (30-0 I think) in Arrowhead.

Made Thomas look like a punk beyatch! Think it was 3 personal fouls on 1 drive.

Love it, love it, love it!

Doubt they considered "smacktalk" in the rankings.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Sharpe's blocking was marginal compared to the others and using your own argument, that we need to factor in the era, then the numbers guys like Ditka and Mackey put up in simplified, run first offenses would probably be much higher on teams that were designed to pass more. When you look at tight ends, you need to say who is the best at doing everything that a tight end has to do. Sharpe is not the best at doing everything. While he was a good blocker, he wasn't dominant. I would put him in my top five - maybe top three. But he's not the best tight end to play the game. That's pretty obvious.

It's silly to argue one's proficiency in their own era when you dont have the numbers to support your argument.

We have enough to know that Shannon is the best. Ever. Period.

[KCStud]

I don't think anyone will ever say (with a straight face) that Gonzalez was better than Sharpe.

Nobody in Denver...let's not forget people. Gonzo didn't have one of the best QB's throwing him the ball. Gonzo has always been KC's best target since we never had a legit WR and defense's knew that for years and he STILL puts up the numbers every single year despite being triple teamed. The best QB Gonzo had was Green who went to one pro bowl. That's it.
Gonzo also didn't have the luxury of Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey taking pressure off of him.
Do you really think Sharpe could have put up anything close to what Gonzo has if he was in the same situation doing everything by himself year after year of being triple teamed?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I don't think anyone will ever say (with a straight face) that Gonzalez was better than Sharpe.

Gonzalez will go down as the greatest tight end in NFL history. He will shatter all of Shannon's records. It won't even be close. Gonzalez is a first-ballot lock for the Hall of Fame.

Gonzalez is a better receiver, blocker and person than Shannon Sharpe could have ever hoped to be.

And his wife is hotter, too.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5614/oct6no7.jpg

[Kaylore]

It's silly to argue one's proficiency in their own era when you dont have the numbers to support your argument.

We have enough to know that Shannon is the best. Ever. Period.

What's silly is trying to argue that the most prolific player in one aspect of a position somehow makes him the best ever. Let's just throw out how the other two thirds of the game is played! By your logic the best ever will be Gonzo and then Gates. By your logic Favre > Marino > Elway. ::) I mean clearly the numbers back that up. Favre is the best. Ever. Period. Wait...

Tight ends do more than catch passes, Llama. Good blocking is more important to the team than catching passes in football, I'm sorry to inform you. The greatest at some position should be a complete tight end meaning they are the best at all facets of the game. No one would say a power back could be the greatest running back ever. No one would argue a left tackle that was amazing in pass pro, but average at run blocking would be the best at his position ever.

[Inkana7]

Nobody in Denver...let's not forget people. Gonzo didn't have one of the best QB's throwing him the ball. Gonzo has always been KC's best target since we never had a legit WR and defense's knew that for years and he STILL puts up the numbers every single year despite being triple teamed. The best QB Gonzo had was Green who went to one pro bowl. That's it.
Gonzo also didn't have the luxury of Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey taking pressure off of him.
Do you really think Sharpe could have put up anything close to what Gonzo has if he was in the same situation doing everything by himself year after year of being triple teamed?

Yes. He was more talented. Period.

And what exactly is a "triple team" in football?

[Florida_Bronco]

Nobody in Denver...let's not forget people. Gonzo didn't have one of the best QB's throwing him the ball. Gonzo has always been KC's best target since we never had a legit WR and defense's knew that for years and he STILL puts up the numbers every single year despite being triple teamed. The best QB Gonzo had was Green who went to one pro bowl. That's it.
Gonzo also didn't have the luxury of Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey taking pressure off of him.
Do you really think Sharpe could have put up anything close to what Gonzo has if he was in the same situation doing everything by himself year after year of being triple teamed?

On the flip side, his numbers suffered because of having to share the ball with Mac and Rod. Plus look at his performance before those two came around and his performance in Baltimore with Trent friggin Dilfer throwing him passes.

Gonzo is most certainly a great TE, and the gap between him and Sharpe is not eons, but Gonzo was never the "gamebreaker" that Sharpe was.

As for Bobo, well we have long established he knows nothing about football so his opinion is, as always, irrelevant.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Hi bob this is a broncos forum try someplace like www.cheifsplanet.com k thx.

[Florida_Bronco]

Hi bob this is a broncos forum try someplace like www.cheifsplanet.com k thx.

He's hated there more than he is here.

[c_lazy_r]

Nobody in Denver...let's not forget people. Gonzo didn't have one of the best QB's throwing him the ball. Gonzo has always been KC's best target since we never had a legit WR and defense's knew that for years and he STILL puts up the numbers every single year despite being triple teamed. The best QB Gonzo had was Green who went to one pro bowl. That's it.
Gonzo also didn't have the luxury of Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey taking pressure off of him.
Do you really think Sharpe could have put up anything close to what Gonzo has if he was in the same situation doing everything by himself year after year of being triple teamed?

Wasn't the mighty Trent Dilfer throwing to Sharpe for a few seasons?

Triple team?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

On the flip side, his numbers suffered because of having to share the ball with Mac and Rod.

That is the stupidest ****ing argument ever.

[Flex Gunmetal]

He's hated there more than he is here.

Perhaps suicide is the next logical step.

[Inkana7]

That is the stupidest ****ing argument ever.

If you believe so, then you're the stupidest ****ing football fan ever.

[Atwater His Ass]

Gonzo didn't have one of the best QB's throwing him the ball.


This is an even more moronic argument.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

No offense man - but not counting the downfield blocking of the WR's & the TE to seal off the edge is horrible man...horrible...

None taken because I didn't say that. I never once questioned the value of downfield blocking, i implied that when i think about terrell's 2,000 yard season, Shannon Sharpe's blocking doesnt come to mind and it's stupid to add that to the best TE ever argument.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

If you believe so, then you're the stupidest ****ing football fan ever.

No, seriously. It's dumb. Amazingly dumb. It's a complete cop-out argument.

You can use it for Rod Smith, too. Hey man, Rod had to share the ball with Ed and Sharpe!

Do you know what kind of numbers Tony Gonzalez would have put up with John Elway, Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery playing around him? He would have OBLITERATED EVERY TIGHT END RECORD FIVE YEARS AGO.

The Chiefs had no offensive line, no running game, and played musical chairs at quarterback last year. Gonzalez had one of his best seasons EVER.

[Atwater His Ass]

How many rings does gonzo have?

it's so predictable how this disscusion always goes

[Inkana7]

No, seriously. It's dumb. Amazingly dumb. It's a complete cop-out argument.

You can use it for Rod Smith, too. Hey man, Rod had to share the ball with Ed and Sharpe!

Do you know what kind of numbers Tony Gonzalez would have put up with John Elway, Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery playing around him? He would have OBLITERATED EVERY TIGHT END RECORD FIVE YEARS AGO.

It's a double edged argument. Sharpe had to share the ball, but wasn't the only target on the field. Gonzo NEVER had to share the ball, but because of this, was often game planned for exclusively. Even you can figure this out, big guy.

Either way, Sharpe has 3 rings. End of discussion.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Your hypothetical arguments are useless against us, robert.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Gonzo....was often game planned for exclusively.

Advantage Gonzalez.

The sharing the ball thing is total bull****. It's an argument in Gonzalez's FAVOR. You might have a point if Elway had been attempting 300 passes. As it was, he was attempting 500. There were plenty of balls to go around.

[lex]

Nobody in Denver...let's not forget people. Gonzo didn't have one of the best QB's throwing him the ball. Gonzo has always been KC's best target since we never had a legit WR and defense's knew that for years and he STILL puts up the numbers every single year despite being triple teamed. The best QB Gonzo had was Green who went to one pro bowl. That's it.
Gonzo also didn't have the luxury of Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey taking pressure off of him.
Do you really think Sharpe could have put up anything close to what Gonzo has if he was in the same situation doing everything by himself year after year of being triple teamed?

Yes. Sharpe was more fluid than Gonzo.

[Inkana7]

Advantage Gonzalez.

The sharing the ball thing is total bull****. It's an argument in Gonzalez's FAVOR. You might have a point if Elway had been attempting 300 passes. As it was, he was attempting 500. There were plenty of balls to go around.

Hilarious!

Sure, Bobo, sure.

[tsiguy96]

lets put it this way. chiefs fans will never say sharpe was better, broncos fans will never say gonzalez was better, chargers fans will never say either are better then gates.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Can someone tell me why Sharpe wasn't putting up 100-catch seasons BEFORE Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery? What was the excuse then?

[tsiguy96]

now back to the subject, why the hell did nfl films act as if sharpe was a raven for life?

[Kaylore]

now back to the subject, why the hell did nfl films act as if sharpe was a raven for life?

I watched this yesterday and most of the sound clips were from the Broncos including the (in)famous "we are killing the Patriots" line. It was about half and half. I didn't notice too many clips from his days wearing the orange Jersey and those are some of his best moments. Anyway it was a good segment and hard to disagree with their overall ranking. I think Coates should have made the list, though.

[Play2win]

SHARPE is a CHAMPION...


Gonzo is a loser... just for the sad fact that he plays for the kc QWEEFS...

[Atwater His Ass]

I truely feel bad for gonzo having to play for that **** franchise his entire career. He deserved much better than to be a chef for life.

[BigPlayShay]

Do you know what kind of numbers Tony Gonzalez would have put up with John Elway, Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery playing around him?

Ironically, Sharpe's best statistical game was when he was 34 years old, in his 2nd to last season, with Griese throwing him the ball (12 catches, NFL record 214 yards, and 2 TDs) in your house against your Chiefs.

[TheReverend]

Can someone tell me why Sharpe wasn't putting up 100-catch seasons BEFORE Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery? What was the excuse then?

Reeves and Wade spring to mind...

[BigPlayShay]

Can someone tell me why Sharpe wasn't putting up 100-catch seasons BEFORE Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery? What was the excuse then?

He's never had a 100 catch season. However, he did have his 2 highest catch seasons (81 in 93, 87 in 94) under Wade Phillips, and he was surrounded by the likes Derek Russel, Vance Johnson, and Arthur Marshall.

Nice try though Bobby.

[KCStud]

Rings don't make a player better than another. It's a team effort. And KC had an elite offense for 4 years. The difference was that Sharpe actually had a defense to go with the teams high powered offense.
How is that Gonzo's fault?

I still think that Kellen Winslow of SD was the best TE of all time. I don't think Gonzo is the best, but he is certainly in the top 5 and a legit top 3 TE as well.

Both of them had great careers. When you hear people saying "that guy has changed the TE position" you know you deserve to be in the HOF.

[FADERPROOF]

All you have to do is see what the other tight ends did. Ditka, Mackey those guys caught passes with great ability, but they broke tackles like running backs, and they blocked like linemen. Sharpe was one of the greatest, but the top spots should go to the tight ends with the most complete game.

That has been my argument when "best current TE" conversations arise and I say Jason Witten.

Everyone says Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates or even now Kellen Winslow Jr. but if I had to pick any current TE then I'd go with Jason Witten.

[Inkana7]

That has been my argument when "best current TE" conversations arise and I say Jason Witten.

Everyone says Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates or even now Kellen Winslow Jr. but if I had to pick any current TE then I'd go with Jason Witten.

Agree. Witten is a beast. Heap is probably up there too. We tend to forget about him because he was hurt last year.

[Inkana7]

He's never had a 100 catch season. However, he did have his 2 highest catch seasons (81 in 93, 87 in 94) under Wade Phillips, and he was surrounded by the likes Derek Russel, Vance Johnson, and Arthur Marshall.

Nice try though Bobby.

Own'd. Hardcore.

[crazyhorse]

You guys will have a tough time actually generating a reasonable arguement of how Sharpe is better than Gonzo.

Especially arguing who was the better "all around" TE.

I remember Sharpe publicly whining about blocking. He just wanted to catch balls. Which is okay. But Gonzo has been a better TE. Sharpe had the luxury of a better QB for most of his carreer. He also had the luxury of having pro bowl WRs on the team to take the pressure off him. Gonzo has never enjoyed the luxuries Sharpe has. Yet he is generating better numbers in his carreer. Not to mention the fact that Gonzo is a better blocker.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Reeves and Wade spring to mind...

Tony G excelled despite his dumbass coaches. Try again.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

He's never had a 100 catch season. However, he did have his 2 highest catch seasons (81 in 93, 87 in 94) under Wade Phillips, and he was surrounded by the likes Derek Russel, Vance Johnson, and Arthur Marshall.


BZZZZZZZZZZZT. Try again. Tony G already wins the "surrounded by inferior talent" argument.

You guys are just homering off about your beloved "tight end." Gonzalez is more talented than Sharpe, will finish with more production than Sharpe, and was a better all-around player than Sharpe. He also wasn't a loudmouth jackass. Did I mention he made a lot more money and looked better in his uniform? And he didn't have a horse face.

[Blueflame]

Why are we allowing Chefs fans to hijack a Shannon Sharpe thread to the extent that it actually needs to be renamed "Tony Gonzalez discussion thread"? ???

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Why are we allowing Chefs fans to hijack a Shannon Sharpe thread to the extent that it actually needs to be renamed "Tony Gonzalez discussion thread"? ???

Evil will always triumph because good is dumb!

[Flex Gunmetal]

Why are we allowing Chefs fans to hijack a Shannon Sharpe thread to the extent that it actually needs to be renamed "Tony Gonzalez discussion thread"? ???

We need a Cheeps discussion section for these bozos to troll around in.

[Blueflame]

Back on topic. tsk tsk

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/Blueflame91315/p1_shannon_sharpe_getty.jpg

[Sassy]

Back on topic. tsk tsk

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/Blueflame91315/p1_shannon_sharpe_getty.jpg

Nice butt shot Blue! Hilarious!

[Blueflame]

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/05F.jpg

[Blueflame]

Nice butt shot Blue! Hilarious!

It is, isn't it? ;)

[Punisher]

Yea Ive seen this so called count down,and i turn the Channel when I found out Sharpe was number 4 on the list.

[Blueflame]

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/2006-01-19-sharpe.jpg

[Blueflame]

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/SHANNONSHARPE.jpg

[Blueflame]

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/10620708.jpg

[Blueflame]

Now that's better. ;D

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/shannan-action.jpg

[Punisher]

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5653/newbroncovh8.png

[BigPlayShay]

BZZZZZZZZZZZT. Try again. Tony G already wins the "surrounded by inferior talent" argument.

You guys are just homering off about your beloved "tight end." Gonzalez is more talented than Sharpe, will finish with more production than Sharpe, and was a better all-around player than Sharpe. He also wasn't a loudmouth jackass. Did I mention he made a lot more money and looked better in his uniform? And he didn't have a horse face.

You asked the question ****head. When did Sharpe produce without superior talent, and I let you know when he did. You can't diminish Sharpe's accomplishments because he may have had better talent. You can blame your ****ty GM for not surrounding Tony G with more though.

Also, you mention Ed and Rod, two guys that were castoffs or projects. Something that Sharpe was as well. And they all succeeded despite their draft status or lack thereof in Rod's case. Tony was drafted in the 1st round and was expected to be where he is today. Sharpe was not picked until round 7 and was almost cut if it weren't for an injury to a Tight End on the roster that year. Sharpe became dominant and succeeded despite all that.

[FADERPROOF]

BZZZZZZZZZZZT. Try again. Tony G already wins the "surrounded by inferior talent" argument.

You guys are just homering off about your beloved "tight end." Gonzalez is more talented than Sharpe, will finish with more production than Sharpe, and was a better all-around player than Sharpe. He also wasn't a loudmouth jackass. Did I mention he made a lot more money and looked better in his uniform? And he didn't have a horse face.

Were you listening to "It's raining men" while making this comment?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

You asked the question ****head. When did Sharpe produce without superior talent, and I let you know when he did. .

No, I posed the question when did he have an epic, 100-catch season?

He didn't. He didn't live up to the future standard Gonzalez would set while surrounded by castoffs like Derrick Alexander and Kevin Lockett, while catching passes from Elvis ****ing Grbac.

Gonzalez > Sharpe. I win.

[FADERPROOF]

No, I posed the question when did he have an epic, 100-catch season?

He didn't. He didn't live up to the future standard Gonzalez would set while surrounded by castoffs like Derrick Alexander and Kevin Lockett, while catching passes from Elvis ****ing Grbac.

Gonzalez > Sharpe. I win.

This argument could go on forever actually, it's all become matter of opinion because of the stats that both have put up.

[Los Broncos]

Gonzo is good, we get it Bob.

[FADERPROOF]

Gonzo is good, we get it Bob.

Problem with Bob is that he thinks that how good he looks in his uniform and how hot his wife is are quality arguments in this debate.

[Los Broncos]

Problem with Bob is that he thinks that how good he looks in his uniform and how hot his wife is are quality arguments in this debate.

I don't doubt it.

[Killericon]

Right. The best people to objectively discern who the better tight end is between Tony Gonzalez and Shannon Sharpe are Chiefs fans and Broncos fans. That makes perfect sense. This is a fantastic argument.

[Florida_Bronco]

Chiefs fans are the only ones who will ever consider Gonzo better than Sharpe.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Chiefs fans are the only ones who will ever consider Gonzo better than Sharpe.


Bronco fans are the only ones who will ever consider Sharpe better than Gonzo.

Right. The best people to objectively discern who the better tight end is between Tony Gonzalez and Shannon Sharpe are Chiefs fans and Broncos fans. That makes perfect sense. This is a fantastic argument.

Well step on up Chugger and Fade fans.

[Florida_Bronco]

Bronco fans are the only ones who will ever consider Sharpe better than Gonzo.

Did Sharpe not rank higher on NFL Networks list?

That's right fat boy.

[Blueflame]

Here's the standard by which NFL success is normally measured.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/Sharpes_SB_rings.jpg

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Did Sharpe not rank higher on NFL Networks list?

That's right fat boy.

Lord knows that seals the deal. Holy ****!

[Florida_Bronco]

It proves you were wrong....yet again.

[rovolution]

Lord knows that seals the deal. Holy ****!


Shannons got these bad boys too
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/Sharpes_SB_rings.jpg

Tony G is the Cris Carter of TEs, all stats, but his team never won a lot of meaningful games.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

It proves you were wrong....yet again.

No, it proves some idiots at NFL Network don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Gonzalez redefined the tight end position while Sharpe choked on his dust.

[rovolution]

Claiming that his championships or the fact that he blocked for a 2,000 rusher shouldnt really enter the equation.

Disagree.

This is the exact reason why Cris Carter is not a HOFer and will struggle to get into Canton for atleast some time.

[Florida_Bronco]

Yeah Bob. If NFLN put Gonzo ahead you'd be here blowing your load all over the place.

[Blueflame]

Disagree.

This is the exact reason why Cris Carter is not a HOFer and will struggle to get into Canton for atleast some time.

Shannon will be there next year.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Yeah Bob. If NFLN put Gonzo ahead you'd be here blowing your load all over the place.

I don't even watch NFLN. It's become quite boring.

[Florida_Bronco]

That's right, you have that excellent publication known as WarPaint Illustrated. Talk about the pinnacle of sports journalism there.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

That's right, you have that excellent publication known as WarPaint Illustrated. Talk about the pinnacle of sports journalism there.

#1 NFL site on Scout.com.

People love our product.

[Florida_Bronco]

Some people love National Enquirer too.

[FADERPROOF]

No, it proves some idiots at NFL Network don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Gonzalez redefined the tight end position while Sharpe choked on his dust.

It does prove your statement that "only Bronco fans would put Shannon Sharpe ahead of Gonzo" is not true, unless you would like to start up a conspiracy that all of the NFLN are Bronco fans.

And that would be tough to prove considering that 75% of NFLN's highlights on Sharpe had him in a Ravens uniform, including the circus juggle catch he made against Denver in the playoffs back in 2001.

[Wes Mantooth]

Not to mention "blocking" for a 2,000 yard rusher in 98.

I don't remember Shannon really blocking ever.

[TheReverend]

I don't remember Shannon really blocking ever.

Much as I love him, it's comparable to Deion's tackling.

[Jetmeck]

Gonzalez should be in the top five at least, if not the top three. That's horrible.


Hi you little weasel. Just as NFL NETWORK said try winning a SB once or twice or even three times as Shannon did. Right or wrong that will usually move you up the list. Course as long as Gonzo stays in KC that's not likely is it ?

[XXXshogunXXX]

heh..funny how alot of you hated us chugger fans, and were embracing bob in the Rivers thread. Suddenly, he was a knowledgable poster with more football insight because of his jay cutler sucking..... now that you offended his gonzo, you guys are reminding him about chiefsplanet.

[DHallblows]

heh..funny how alot of you hated us chugger fans, and were embracing bob in the Rivers thread. Suddenly, he was a knowledgable poster with more football insight because of his jay cutler sucking..... now that you offended his gonzo, you guys are reminding him about chiefsplanet.

...duh? You're both trolls...

[alkemical]

None taken because I didn't say that. I never once questioned the value of downfield blocking, i implied that when i think about terrell's 2,000 yard season, Shannon Sharpe's blocking doesnt come to mind and it's stupid to add that to the best TE ever argument.


I just disagree man. While Shannon's blocking wasn't dominant, he was effective at blocking enough for the play to be successful.

[SoonerBronco]

No, I posed the question when did he have an epic, 100-catch season?

He didn't. He didn't live up to the future standard Gonzalez would set while surrounded by castoffs like Derrick Alexander and Kevin Lockett, while catching passes from Elvis ****ing Grbac.

Gonzalez > Sharpe. I win.

Alexander was a first rounder in '97(29th pic) and you turds picked Lockett in the second round of that same draft (47th). Alexander had two 65 catch seasons before coming to the Chiefs. Not as much of a cast off as you would like them to be.

Sharpe > Gonzo = I win

[lex]

You guys will have a tough time actually generating a reasonable arguement of how Sharpe is better than Gonzo.

Especially arguing who was the better "all around" TE.

I remember Sharpe publicly whining about blocking. He just wanted to catch balls. Which is okay. But Gonzo has been a better TE. Sharpe had the luxury of a better QB for most of his carreer. He also had the luxury of having pro bowl WRs on the team to take the pressure off him. Gonzo has never enjoyed the luxuries Sharpe has. Yet he is generating better numbers in his carreer. Not to mention the fact that Gonzo is a better blocker.

Like I said earlier, I think Sharpe was more fluid than Gonzalez. And for that reason, I think there is/was more you could do to Gonzalez than Sharpe. I Gonzalez gets a lot out of body position because of his basketball background, but Sharpe utilized that and plus there was more ease of movement with Sharpe.

[Gcver2ver3]

You're crazy if you don't realize Sharpe is the best ever...

No one has the resume Shannon Sharpe does...

He clearly has the receiving numbers...he put up numbers WRs could only dream of...he blows every other TEs numbers out of the water with the exception of Gonzo...

Now add in Sharpe's impact...this is what separartes him from Gonzo and the rest of the field...to go with Sharpe's gaudy numbers is the fact that he was a big part of winning 3 championships...he CARRIED the Ravens offense in the playoffs...

Now Sharpe wasn't a great blocker but with all his other accomplishments his blocking is just good enough to have him certainly at the top spot for all-time TE status...

Dikta, Winslow, & Mackey had big impacts, while Gonzo has the numbers, but only Sharpe has both...

Sharpe has the numbers, Pro Bowls, leadership, and maybe most importantly...3 rings...

Sharpe is clearly the best TE ever...anyone to think otherwise is misinformed...

[lex]

You're crazy if you don't realize Sharpe is the best ever...

No one has the resume Shannon Sharpe does...

He clearly has the receiving numbers...he put up numbers WRs could only dream of...he blows every other TEs numbers out of the water with the exception of Gonzo...

Now add in Sharpe's impact...this is what separartes him from Gonzo and the rest of the field...to go with Sharpe's gaudy numbers is the fact that he was a big part of winning 3 championships...he CARRIED the Ravens offense in the playoffs...

Now Sharpe wasn't a great blocker but with all his other accomplishments his blocking is just good enough to have him certainly at the top spot for all-time TE status...

Dikta, Winslow, & Mackey had big impacts, while Gonzo has the numbers, but only Sharpe has both...

Sharpe has the numbers, Pro Bowls, leadership, and maybe most importantly...3 rings...

Sharpe is clearly the best TE ever...anyone to think otherwise is misinformed...

Say what you want about Sharpes blocking but he did block for one of the best rushing attacks in the history of the league. You can attribute it more to having WRs that were willing blockers or you can attribute that more to schematics , and that might be true but obviously its hard to fault a guy for his blocking when your RB is averaging 1900 yards during super bowl seasons. Not only that but Baltimore relied heavily on the run.

[Gcver2ver3]

Say what you want about Sharpes blocking but he did block for one of the best rushing attacks in the history of the league. You can attribute it more to having WRs that were willing blockers or you can attribute that more to schematics , and that might be true but obviously its hard to fault a guy for his blocking when your RB is averaging 1900 yards during super bowl seasons. Not only that but Baltimore relied heavily on the run.

okay...but my bigger point is Sharpe is the greatest all-time...

that's what really needs to stressed....

with that said, i didn't say Sharpe wasn't a good blocker...but he wasn't a great blocker by any means...he was a solid blocker...he worked hard at improving that aspect of his game and he did a good job of improving his blocking...

but like i said...Sharpe is the best ever....bar none...

[Flex Gunmetal]

okay...but my bigger point is Sharpe is the greatest all-time...

that's what really needs to stressed....

with that said, i didn't say Sharpe wasn't a good blocker...but he wasn't a great blocker by any means...he was a solid blocker...he worked hard at improving that aspect of his game and he did a good job of improving his blocking...

but like i said...Sharpe is the best ever....bar none...
:notworthy

[Flex Gunmetal]

BTW Shannon turns 40 a week from today. :olddude:

[Kaylore]

You're crazy if you don't realize Sharpe is the best ever...

No one has the resume Shannon Sharpe does...

He clearly has the receiving numbers...he put up numbers WRs could only dream of...he blows every other TEs numbers out of the water with the exception of Gonzo...

Now add in Sharpe's impact...this is what separartes him from Gonzo and the rest of the field...to go with Sharpe's gaudy numbers is the fact that he was a big part of winning 3 championships...he CARRIED the Ravens offense in the playoffs...

Now Sharpe wasn't a great blocker but with all his other accomplishments his blocking is just good enough to have him certainly at the top spot for all-time TE status...

Dikta, Winslow, & Mackey had big impacts, while Gonzo has the numbers, but only Sharpe has both...

Sharpe has the numbers, Pro Bowls, leadership, and maybe most importantly...3 rings...

Sharpe is clearly the best TE ever...anyone to think otherwise is misinformed...
Again, you would be right if the question was "Who is the greatest pass-catching tight end" and then the list would look like this:

1. Sharpe
2. Winslow
3. Gonzo
4. Gates
5. The Wizard of Oz
6. Casper
7. etc...

However it's not. It's the best TE overall and tight ends do more than catch patches. I know everyone here gets furious when a Bronco isn't rated number 1 ( like somehow that means they suck? I mean we're talking about HOF players here. They were all the best of their era and one in a life time players) but playing TE is more than catching passes. You definitely need to do that well, but if you're deficient in the other areas then you cannot be the best. The best TE with the most complete game, the one did everything well, was Mackey. Everyone and their mom will tell you this that doesn't wear a Broncos Jersey. He blocked like a tackle, he caught passes with the best and he broke tackles like Brandon Marshall. His game was complete unlike Sharpe's and his numbers receiving are more reflective of the offenses of the time than Sharpe being "better" than him.

[lex]

Again, you would be right if the question was "Who is the greatest pass-catching tight end" and then the list would look like this:

1. Sharpe
2. Winslow
3. Gonzo
4. Gates
5. The Wizard of Oz
6. Casper
7. etc...

However it's not. It's the best TE overall and tight ends do more than catch patches. I know everyone here gets furious when a Bronco isn't rated number 1 ( like somehow that means they suck? I mean we're talking about HOF players here. They were all the best of their era and one in a life time players) but playing TE is more than catching passes. You definitely need to do that well, but if you're deficient in the other areas then you cannot be the best. The best TE with the most complete game, the one did everything well, was Mackey. Everyone and their mom will tell you this that doesn't wear a Broncos Jersey. He blocked like a tackle, he caught passes with the best and he broke tackles like Brandon Marshall. His game was complete unlike Sharpe's and his numbers receiving are more reflective of the offenses of the time than Sharpe being "better" than him.

"Best" is an arbitrary exercise. In other words, people can weight it towards pass catching as much as they want. Blocking and pass catching doesnt have to be weighted evenly.

Wow. Some of the things that need to be explained to people.

[Kaylore]

"Best" is an arbitrary exercise. In other words, people can weight it towards pass catching as much as they want. Blocking and pass catching doesnt have to be weighted evenly.

Wow. Some of the things that need to be explained to people.

Ok cool. Then in that case Brett Favre is the greatest QB of all time because I've decided that stats are the only thing to measure a QB on because I feel like it.

[lex]

Ok cool. Then in that case Brett Favre is the greatest QB of all time because I've decided that stats are the only thing to measure a QB on because I feel like it.

Like I said, its an arbitrary exercise.

[Gcver2ver3]

Again, you would be right if the question was "Who is the greatest pass-catching tight end" and then the list would look like this:

1. Sharpe
2. Winslow
3. Gonzo
4. Gates
5. The Wizard of Oz
6. Casper
7. etc...

However it's not. It's the best TE overall and tight ends do more than catch patches. I know everyone here gets furious when a Bronco isn't rated number 1 ( like somehow that means they suck? I mean we're talking about HOF players here. They were all the best of their era and one in a life time players) but playing TE is more than catching passes. You definitely need to do that well, but if you're deficient in the other areas then you cannot be the best. The best TE with the most complete game, the one did everything well, was Mackey. Everyone and their mom will tell you this that doesn't wear a Broncos Jersey. He blocked like a tackle, he caught passes with the best and he broke tackles like Brandon Marshall. His game was complete unlike Sharpe's and his numbers receiving are more reflective of the offenses of the time than Sharpe being "better" than him.


I thought I clearly explained that Sharpe did do more than pas catch...

he was a leader...and an underrated blocker...

he won championships....

Sharpe was very effective after the catch and he was SUCH an outstanding receiving threat that it trumps any other aspect that other TEs may barely edge him out in...

There is Shannon Sharpe and then there's everybody else...

[Flex Gunmetal]

New sig...

[Kaylore]

I thought I clearly explained that Sharpe did do more than pas catch...

he was a leader...and an underrated blocker...

he won championships....

Sharpe was very effective after the catch and he was SUCH an outstanding receiving threat that it trumps any other aspect that other TEs may barely edge him out in...

There is Shannon Sharpe and then there's everybody else...

I'm not arguing against any of that except the final assessment as him being the greatest. Of course you can grade them how you want and Sharpe's rings and numbers together make him one of the all time greatest to play the position. Not disputing that and virtually everyone has him as a top five player at least. But if I'm building a team and someone says to me "show me the perfect tight end" then I show you a picture of Mackey. That's the kind of tight end that will do everything you need a TE to do perfectly.

[alkemical]

I'm not arguing against any of that except the final assessment as him being the greatest. Of course you can grade them how you want and Sharpe's rings and numbers together make him one of the all time greatest to play the position. Not disputing that and virtually everyone has him as a top five player at least. But if I'm building a team and someone says to me "show me the perfect tight end" then I show you a picture of Mackey. That's the kind of tight end that will do everything you need a TE to do perfectly.

Dude, turn in your broncos gear. ;)

[Kaylore]

Dude, turn in your broncos gear. ;)

I know, right? Seriously though I think you have to factor in all aspects of a position. It's the reason I think Elway was the greatest. He's the only one of the greats who had no deficiencies. Elway had the physical tools, he had the clutch ability, he had the MVP performances (Superbowl and League) and he had the rings.

Montana lacked the physical tools and durability.

Marino lacked mobility and the rings.

Elway had all of the above.

I use the same thing for Sharpe. He had everything but the blocking and I need someone more complete for me to say he's "the best ever". I think the best should be the best at everything and Sharpe wasn't. That's obviously just me, though.

[alkemical]

I know, right? Seriously though I think you have to factor in all aspects of a position. It's the reason I think Elway was the greatest. He's the only one of the greats who had no deficiencies. Elway had the physical tools, he had the clutch ability, he had the MVP performances (Superbowl and League) and he had the rings.

Montana lacked the physical tools and durability.

Marino lacked mobility and the rings.

Elway had all of the above.

I use the same thing for Sharpe. He had everything but the blocking and I need someone more complete for me to say he's "the best ever". I think the best should be the best at everything and Sharpe wasn't. That's obviously just me, though.


I get your point, i do...

[Gcver2ver3]

I'm not arguing against any of that except the final assessment as him being the greatest. Of course you can grade them how you want and Sharpe's rings and numbers together make him one of the all time greatest to play the position. Not disputing that and virtually everyone has him as a top five player at least. But if I'm building a team and someone says to me "show me the perfect tight end" then I show you a picture of Mackey. That's the kind of tight end that will do everything you need a TE to do perfectly.

fair enough....i disagree but i understand your point...

[kmartin575]

I don't think anyone will ever say (with a straight face) that Gonzalez was better than Sharpe.

I will. Gonzalez has already passed Sharpe in receptions and touchdowns, in less time than it took Sharpe. After 2 or 3 games this year he will have passed up Sharpe in yards as well. If Gonzalez plays at least 3 more years his stats will completely blow Sharpe out of the water.

Using the super bowl rings argument is bull****. You simply cannot blame Tony for never getting a ring. Except for possibly quarterbacks, super bowl rings should not be used to evaluate an individual player. I could easily say Ty Law was a better cornerback than Champ Bailey because of his rings. But I know better.

When it is all said and done Tony Gonzalez will be known as a better tight end than Shannon Sharpe.

[kmartin575]

On the flip side, his numbers suffered because of having to share the ball with Mac and Rod. Plus look at his performance before those two came around and his performance in Baltimore with Trent friggin Dilfer throwing him passes.

Gonzo is most certainly a great TE, and the gap between him and Sharpe is not eons, but Gonzo was never the "gamebreaker" that Sharpe was.

As for Bobo, well we have long established he knows nothing about football so his opinion is, as always, irrelevant.

Bullcrap. The stats completely prove otherwise.

[kmartin575]

Your hypothetical arguments are useless against us, robert.

These hypothetical arguments mean nothing. What does matter is that Gonzalez has already passed up Sharpe in receptions and touchdowns and will pass him up in yards after 2 or 3 games this year. It will also have taken him much less time to get those records than it did Sharpe. There is nothing hypothetical about the stats. The stats will prove Gonzalez was better.

[Blueflame]

I will. Gonzalez has already passed Sharpe in receptions and touchdowns, in less time than it took Sharpe. After 2 or 3 games this year he will have passed up Sharpe in yards as well. If Gonzalez plays at least 3 more years his stats will completely blow Sharpe out of the water.

Using the super bowl rings argument is bull****. You simply cannot blame Tony for never getting a ring. Except for possibly quarterbacks, super bowl rings should not be used to evaluate an individual player. I could easily say Ty Law was a better cornerback than Champ Bailey because of his rings. But I know better.

When it is all said and done Tony Gonzalez will be known as a better tight end than Shannon Sharpe.

Yes, but you have proven yourself over and over again to be a Chefs :homer: Hence, your biased opinion can safely be dismissed. Nyah!

[Blueflame]

These hypothetical arguments mean nothing. What does matter is that Gonzalez has already passed up Sharpe in receptions and touchdowns and will pass him up in yards after 2 or 3 games this year. It will also have taken him much less time to get those records than it did Sharpe. There is nothing hypothetical about the stats. The stats will prove Gonzalez was better.

Dan Marino has better stats in some categories than John Elway's.... but Elway has two championship rings while Marino has none. I ask you... is Marino generally viewed (today) as better than Elway? Most "Best QB of all time" lists have Elway significantly higher than Marino. So your answer there is "no".

[kmartin575]

Here's the standard by which NFL success is normally measured.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/Sharpes_SB_rings.jpg

Not for individual players, besides maybe quarterbacks.

Again, using your reasoning Ty Law is a better cornerback than Champ Bailey.

And Joseph Addai is a better runningback than Ladainian Tomlinson.

[kmartin575]

Dan Marino has better stats in some categories than John Elway's.... but Elway has two championship rings while Marino has none. I ask you... is Marino generally viewed (today) as better than Elway? Most "Best QB of all time" lists have Elway significantly higher than Marino. So your answer there is "no".

Did I not say quarterback was the only position that a championship can reflect upon an individual player? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I just said that.

[Blueflame]

Not for individual players, besides maybe quarterbacks.

Again, using your reasoning Ty Law is a better cornerback than Champ Bailey.

And Joseph Addai is a better runningback than Ladainian Tomlinson.

You really don't think those championship rings make any difference at all re: looking back at a retired player's career for the purpose of HOF consideration? I do.

[kmartin575]

Like I said earlier, I think Sharpe was more fluid than Gonzalez. And for that reason, I think there is/was more you could do to Gonzalez than Sharpe. I Gonzalez gets a lot out of body position because of his basketball background, but Sharpe utilized that and plus there was more ease of movement with Sharpe.

Yeah, Sharpe was more fluid than Gonzalez because he was a converted wide receiver. I sure hope a 6'2" 228 pound player is more fluid than a 6'5" 251 pound player. I don't even consider Sharpe a true tight end. Like Dallas Clark, he is nothing more than a big wide receiver. The tight end position also relies alot on good blocking and unfortunately for you guys Gonzalez wins that competition by a landslide.

Doesn't matter how fluid Sharpe is though, Gonzalez has already passed up Sharpe in touchdowns and receptions and is about to pass him up in yards. When Gonzalez's career is done in about 3 years his stats will blow Sharpe out of the water.

[Blueflame]

Did I not say quarterback was the only position that a championship can reflect upon an individual player? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I just said that.

I disagree. I think the rings reflect positively on any player who played a key role in winning a championship; not just on QBs.

[kmartin575]

You really don't think those championship rings make any difference at all re: looking back at a retired player's career for the purpose of HOF consideration? I do.

So then you would concede that Ty Law's 3 super bowl rings make him the superior player to Champ Bailey?

No, I don't think super bowl rings should be a considering factor when examining the career of a player, besides quarterbacks. An individual player has such little control over the fate of the entire team (except for quarterbacks of course) that it is unfair for those players that have been stuck on bad teams.

[Gcver2ver3]

I will. Gonzalez has already passed Sharpe in receptions and touchdowns, in less time than it took Sharpe. After 2 or 3 games this year he will have passed up Sharpe in yards as well. If Gonzalez plays at least 3 more years his stats will completely blow Sharpe out of the water.

Using the super bowl rings argument is bull****. You simply cannot blame Tony for never getting a ring. Except for possibly quarterbacks, super bowl rings should not be used to evaluate an individual player. I could easily say Ty Law was a better cornerback than Champ Bailey because of his rings. But I know better.

When it is all said and done Tony Gonzalez will be known as a better tight end than Shannon Sharpe.

your take is laughable...what a homer...

Gonzo is a great TE but he isn't near as good as Sharpe...

Sharpe has always been a big threat to worry about stopping even with other great weapons on the field (Davis, Smith, etc)...

If you don't think Sharpe should be given some credit for those SB championships then you simply haven't been paying attention...

the Ravens would not even have a ring if it weren't for sharpe's playoff performances...

Sharpe comes through when the chips are down much like his big grab to win the AFC title game against the Steelers...

Gonzo doesn't have that kind of mojo...Gonzo was just about stats...Sharpe is the complete package...a difference maker....and ask the Ravens and they'll tell you he's a franchise changer...plus his leadership spanks Gonzo's...teammates rally around Sharpe like he's the QB...

Gonzo may be in the top 5 but he's no Sharpe....

don't be ridiculous...lol

[lex]

These hypothetical arguments mean nothing. What does matter is that Gonzalez has already passed up Sharpe in receptions and touchdowns and will pass him up in yards after 2 or 3 games this year. It will also have taken him much less time to get those records than it did Sharpe. There is nothing hypothetical about the stats. The stats will prove Gonzalez was better.

Not really. You could look at Shannons numbers schematics or Elway having other options just as much as you can point to KC relying more heavily on Gonzalez. But relative to Sharpe, Gonzalez was kind of lumbering. Sharpe was more fluid. I remember the game where essentially Denver shut down KCs passing game by putting Champ on Gonzalez. Gonzalez was a non-factor that game. Things like this were harder to do vs Sharpe. One reason is because Denvers offense has been more balanced but also, and moreover, because Shannon was a little more fluid in his movement. He didnt rely exclusively on body position the way Gonzalez has during his career.

[Blueflame]

So then you would concede that Ty Law's 3 super bowl rings make him the superior player to Champ Bailey?

No, I don't think super bowl rings should be a considering factor when examining the career of a player, besides quarterbacks. An individual player has such little control over the fate of the entire team (except for quarterbacks of course) that it is unfair for those players that have been stuck on bad teams.

I would "concede" that if one's looking at similar stats from two players (say John Elway and Dan Marino) and one has multiple championship rings while the other does not, that it's not difficult to conclude that the one with the jewelry had a better (more successful) career.

[Atwater His Ass]

Oh look a chef homer that thinks gonzo is better than Sharpe. Stop the presses.

[kmartin575]

your take is laughable...what a homer...

Gonzo is a great TE but he isn't near as good as Sharpe...

Sharpe has always been a big threat to worry about stopping even with other great weapons on the field (Davis, Smith, etc)...

If you don't think Sharpe should be given some credit for those SB championships then you simply haven't been paying attention...

the Ravens would not even have a ring if it weren't for sharpe's playoff performances...

Sharpe comes through when the chips are down much like his big grab to win the AFC title game against the Steelers...

Gonzo doesn't have that kind of mojo...Gonzo was just about stats...Sharpe is the complete package...a difference maker....and ask the Ravens and they'll tell you he's a franchise changer...plus his leadership spanks Gonzo's...teammates rally around Sharpe like he's the QB...

Gonzo may be in the top 5 but he's no Sharpe....

don't be ridiculous...lol

Sure thing buddy. I think we all know who Sharpe's butt buddy is.

[kmartin575]

Oh look a chef homer that thinks gonzo is better than Sharpe. Stop the presses.

Oh look a Donkey homer who thinks that Champ Bailey is better than Ty Law.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Oh look a Donkey homer who thinks that Champ Bailey is better than Ty Law.

Well....duh.

[Gcver2ver3]

Oh look a Donkey homer who thinks that Champ Bailey is better than Ty Law.

he isn't?....

and let me guess....you're a queefs homer that thinks priest holmes was better than TD...

[Gcver2ver3]

Sure thing buddy. I think we all know who Sharpe's butt buddy is.

ha!

i figured you'd have nothing for my retort...

i mean when i'm right i'm right....right?...;)

that's a queef fan for ya...

[Inkana7]

Oh look a Donkey homer who thinks that Champ Bailey is better than Ty Law.

<_<

Is this kid serious?

[lex]

Yeah, Sharpe was more fluid than Gonzalez because he was a converted wide receiver. I sure hope a 6'2" 228 pound player is more fluid than a 6'5" 251 pound player. I don't even consider Sharpe a true tight end. Like Dallas Clark, he is nothing more than a big wide receiver. The tight end position also relies alot on good blocking and unfortunately for you guys Gonzalez wins that competition by a landslide.

I dont know if you can say that. First of all, I really dont think Sharpe weighed 228 on the back half of his career. Also, what makes youre argument silly is that you try to poke holes in Sharpes blocking, yet, he blocked for one of the most productive running games in a 5 year stretch in the history of the game. How bad can his blocking be if Davis is winning MVPs and rushing for 2000 yard seasons? How bad can it be if Denver is running the ball against good teams in the playoffs? Its obviously not too bad.

Doesn't matter how fluid Sharpe is though, Gonzalez has already passed up Sharpe in touchdowns and receptions and is about to pass him up in yards. When Gonzalez's career is done in about 3 years his stats will blow Sharpe out of the water.

Ive already pointed out the flaw with saying this. You can repeat it as many times as you want. A well trained parrot can do that.

[Greybeard]

Shannon Sharpe was a great, great TE for the Broncos.

However, I would have to do some thinking before I placed him as high as #4.
Not to say he isn't, but he's in pretty fast company.

I believe the top three spots are taken: John Mackey, Ozzie Newsome, and
Kellen Winslow, Sr. After them, come the likes of Jackie Smith, Dave Casper,
Charlie Sanders, and Mike Ditka (not necessarily in that order). Gonzales would
have to be in there somewhere, too. Gates hasn't been around long enough.

IMHO.

-----

[Greybeard]

Oh look a Donkey homer who thinks that Champ Bailey is better than Ty Law.

Kmart, you been smoking that funny stuff again? :P

Tell me, what eight (8) Pro Bowls and four (4) straight All-Pros has Ty Law
been in? Champ is universally considered the best CB playing today. Ty Law
would not even make the top ten.

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[sixtimeseight]

When Gonzalez's career is done in about 3 years his stats will blow Sharpe out of the water.

So Gonzo is going to win a ring every one of the next three years? Wow, that's quite a claim. Although that still wouldn't "blow Sharpe out of the water," it would merely bring him even. I'd say Gonzo would have to win about 6 rings to truly make your statement accurate.

[Atwater His Ass]

Oh look a Donkey homer who thinks that Champ Bailey is better than Ty Law.

Oh, a chef homer trolling a Bronco board. Wow, I'm shocked.

And no, he's not serious. He's just trying to negate Sharpe's SB rings anyway he can, no matter how retarded it makes him look. You all have to realize, this is ALL the chef fans have. Their team is horrible, we routinely own them, and now they just can't stand that their best player over the past decade is still only second fiddle to a better Bronco player. It really rubs them the wrong way, and even moreso that they are the only people across the country that will make that claim.

This thread I rate as A+. Would read again.

[Inkana7]

Shannon Sharpe was a great, great TE for the Broncos.

However, I would have to do some thinking before I placed him as high as #4.
Not to say he isn't, but he's in pretty fast company.

I believe the top three spots are taken: John Mackey, Ozzie Newsome, and
Kellen Winslow, Sr. After them, come the likes of Jackie Smith, Dave Casper,
Charlie Sanders, and Mike Ditka (not necessarily in that order). Gonzales would
have to be in there somewhere, too. Gates hasn't been around long enough.

IMHO.

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You'd rate Charlie Sanders over Shannon Sharpe? The others, maybe, but Charlie Sanders? No way.