Ouch! Anti-McCain ad packs a whollop!

[Taco John]

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[Taco John]

Ads like this make me realize just how badly I want to see McCain embarassed in November -- not just a loss -- I mean complete and utter embarassment. No way in hell do I want to have to send my son to die for the Bush/McCain mistake.

[Spider]

that was a shot below the belt ........ But damn effective

[BroncoBuff]

It is below the belt, McCain didn't mean that at all. Plus, it's an all-volunteer army, so the ad is silly. But I love it anyway!



LANDSLIDE COMING!!

[Hogan11]

Plus, it's an all-volunteer army...

For now anyways....

[Hogan11]

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What an unpatriotic, selfish biatch!

::)

[gunns]

It is below the belt, McCain didn't mean that at all. Plus, it's an all-volunteer army, so the ad is silly. But I love it anyway!



LANDSLIDE COMING!!

But a lot of those volunteers volunteered after 9-11 to defend our country. They don't feel that's what they're doing. And after several more years of running in circles in this war, will it be all volunteer?

[cutthemdown]

Wait until the Republicans start there attacks. It's going to be a good one.

[cutthemdown]

For now anyways....

The Army took more recruits without h/s diplomas and a few more criminal waivers but they have been meeting the recruiting goals.

[cutthemdown]

But a lot of those volunteers volunteered after 9-11 to defend our country. They don't feel that's what they're doing. And after several more years of running in circles in this war, will it be all volunteer?

9-11 was a long time ago. Anyone who signed up after 9-11 would have already had to re-enlist genius. By the way you don't know what the troops are feeling.

By the way the surge worked and Iraq is getting better and better.

[TexanBob]

While I thought the other anti-McCain ad posted here was solid, this one I just see as childish - typical of MoveOn, the same folks who gave us the Betray-us ad. Everyone who has no political ax to grind understood that McCain meant 100 years - if that's what it takes.

By the way, when are we going to get out of Kosovo, speaking of places our military had no business going to and no reason to stay there? Oh, sorry. That was Clinton's war. So how long will American soldiers die there before we pull out?

Can Obama have this child so he can defend our non-interests in Kosovo? How about it, chicky? Is it okay for your son to die in a Democrat war? Just asking.

[Taco John]

Everyone who has no political ax to grind understood that McCain meant 100 years - if that's what it takes.


Don't speak for me. I saw it as McCain saying that Americans are going to put a permanent military base of operations in Iraq. I am firmly against it. It's their country. Not ours.

By the way, when are we going to get out of Kosovo, speaking of places our military had no business going to and no reason to stay there? Oh, sorry. That was Clinton's war. So how long will American soldiers die there before we pull out?

Let's get out of them all, and start paying down the debt. Americans are taxed to provide national defense for Japan, Germany, France... the list goes on and on. Why? Why should we be taxed to provide national defense for these nations? Why can't they provide their own armies for their own defense?

[That One Guy]

Well there's a catch in leaving all those countries like Germany and Japan. A common recruiting tool for the military is "see the world". Now, that's been relaxed as the places you'll see in the world right now aren't very happy places... but that is a big recruitment tool in peacetime. They allow us maneuverability, presence around the world, and many soldiers actually like going those places.

I'm curious though, which is better in the eyes of voters... Mccain talking about staying or Obama making empty pledges to get all the troops out practically overnight? We're staying for quite a while no matter who wins... isn't it better to be honest about the potential situation?

[kappys]

I'm curious though, which is better in the eyes of voters... Mccain talking about staying or Obama making empty pledges to get all the troops out practically overnight? We're staying for quite a while no matter who wins... isn't it better to be honest about the potential situation?

QFT

[Pseudofool]

How does a McCain presidency resolve not only Iraq, but Iran peacefully? I just don't see it. It doesn't matter that he didn't mean a one hundred year war, what matters is that he's willing to occupy a country as long as it takes to make American permanent presence a nonviolent situation--which will never happen with Iran's current politics.

I don't know whether McCain would go to war with Iran, but it's something we should all worry about. At the very least, we'll need surge-level troops for a long, long time, to keep this surreal status quo in Iraq.

[Pseudofool]

I'm curious though, which is better in the eyes of voters... Mccain talking about staying or Obama making empty pledges to get all the troops out practically overnight? We're staying for quite a while no matter who wins... isn't it better to be honest about the potential situation?It takes a rare sort of stupid to contrue SIXTEEN MONTHS as overnight. Obama's plan for withdraw (as voters will learn for themselves) is over a very long duration. I'm sure that duration will be extended. What's important isn't so much how long it takes to withdraw, but to start moving in that direction no matter how long it takes.

Stop spreading misinformation, and other stop affirming it; you're not Patriots, you're just liars.

[Pseudofool]

Don't speak for me. I saw it as McCain saying that Americans are going to put a permanent military base of operations in Iraq. I am firmly against it. It's their country. Not ours.



Let's get out of them all, and start paying down the debt. Americans are taxed to provide national defense for Japan, Germany, France... the list goes on and on. Why? Why should we be taxed to provide national defense for these nations? Why can't they provide their own armies for their own defense?I completely agree, what's even more is there's no "cold war" presence to justify keeping bases in Iraq. That's why Iran is such a concern.

TJ, you seem pretty thoughtful, but I've gathered you are McCain support, is it just the taxes or a distaste for liberal policy.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

9-11 was a long time ago. Anyone who signed up after 9-11 would have already had to re-enlist genius. By the way you don't know what the troops are feeling.

By the way the surge worked and Iraq is getting better and better.Ignorant. It's you that doesn't know what hell he's talking about. Try reading an enlistment contract, come back here explain why you called someone an "idiot" because you don't understand what reserve time and stop loss means.

By the way the surge worked and Iraq is getting better and better.Sadr calling a cease fire is the main reason for reduction in attacks. And a little history for you (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=68700)...
Bagdad Bombing kills 63 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080618/wl_nm/iraq_dc_14).

The Army took more recruits without h/s diplomas and a few more criminal waivers but they have been meeting the recruiting goals.Yeah, like (13%) 10,000 more. And how long have they met recruitment goals and how long haven't they met them?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Well there's a catch in leaving all those countries like Germany and Japan. A common recruiting tool for the military is "see the world". Now, that's been relaxed as the places you'll see in the world right now aren't very happy places... but that is a big recruitment tool in peacetime. They allow us maneuverability, presence around the world, and many soldiers actually like going those places.

I'm curious though, which is better in the eyes of voters... Mccain talking about staying or Obama making empty pledges to get all the troops out practically overnight? We're staying for quite a while no matter who wins... isn't it better to be honest about the potential situation?Removing our military presence from all foreign countries. Not needed strategically or for any other reason. It's a huge financial burden to the country.

[TailgateNut]

9-11 was a long time ago. Anyone who signed up after 9-11 would have already had to re-enlist genius. By the way you don't know what the troops are feeling.

By the way the surge worked and Iraq is getting better and better.


Tell that to the 51 who died yesterday. F-in kool aid drinking idiot!

You know what the troops are thinking? "Get me the **** out of this ****-hole"!

[Bronco Jamus]

Tasteless ad on one hand and a very real concern on the other. Of course John McCain, as well as others here, have made the sacrifice of military service in times of war. God bless them.

[BroncoInferno]

By the way, when are we going to get out of Kosovo, speaking of places our military had no business going to and no reason to stay there? Oh, sorry. That was Clinton's war. So how long will American soldiers die there before we pull out?

The next soldier to die in Kosovo--a very brief war that had a non-lied into humanitarian mission--will be the first.

[Bronco Jamus]

The next soldier to die in Kosovo--a very brief war that had a non-lied into humanitarian mission--will be the first.

And yet there is still civil war going on there.

[TailgateNut]

And yet there is still civil war going on there.


...and?

[Bronco Jamus]

...and?

Meaning that mission didn't solve anything. One could argue it made things worse.

Back to the ad. It reminds me of the fear mongering used by the current administration to push various laws through Congress. I would also add that Congress would have to re-instate the draft, not John McCain, which is what this ad is getting at. It comes off a little ignorant.

[ElwayMD]

Meaning that mission didn't solve anything. One could argue it made things worse.

Back to the ad. It reminds me of the fear mongering used by the current administration to push various laws through Congress. I would also add that Congress would have to re-instate the draft, not John McCain, which is what this ad is getting at. It comes off a little ignorant.

Well like all political messages it's filled with "half" truths to convince the ignorant. The informed (on both sides) already have their mind made up.

[TailgateNut]

Meaning that mission didn't solve anything. One could argue it made things worse.

.


...are you talking about Iraq?:wiggle:

[Bronco Jamus]

...are you talking about Iraq?:wiggle:

And Somlia(sp?). It's not that we can't accomplish these goals. We just don't have the commitment and stomach to finish the job. Of course we should have left Iraq the heck alone also.

[cutthemdown]

Tell that to the 51 who died yesterday. F-in kool aid drinking idiot!

You know what the troops are thinking? "Get me the **** out of this ****-hole"!

just because there are still attacks and death in Iraq for you to list doesn't mean the surge has not worked Liberals just were hoping for the surge to mean more American dead and it hasn't so they are bummed out. If the surge had not worked then Obama would be a shoe in.

Troops are not thinking get me the **** out. I don't know what troops you know but all the ones I know are gung ho and have been that way since they day they joined.

[cutthemdown]

Ignorant. It's you that doesn't know what hell he's talking about. Try reading an enlistment contract, come back here explain why you called someone an "idiot" because you don't understand what reserve time and stop loss means.
Sadr calling a cease fire is the main reason for reduction in attacks. And a little history for you (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=68700)...
Bagdad Bombing kills 63 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080618/wl_nm/iraq_dc_14).

Yeah, like (13%) 10,000 more. And how long have they met recruitment goals and how long haven't they met them?

Maybe I don't know but I thought enlistment was 6 yrs for regular service. Reservists I know have an 8 yr commitment but they knew that going in.

Anyone who joined the regular Marines, Army that joined because of 9-11 would have already had the choice to not re enlist right? can someone in the military enlighten us?

Regardless though every single man and woman in the military volunteered so its a non issue. Not one person was forced.

[TailgateNut]

Not one person was forced.


Just forced to "re-up" due to the stop loss policies. Tell me those guys had a choice.

You are on of the few on this board who seems to think all these soldiers are celebrating their time in Iraq.

Join them and then continue your rants.

[TailgateNut]

Liberals just were hoping for the surge to mean more American dead and it hasn't so they are bummed out.


Someone needs to kick you in the mouth!

[Tombstone RJ]

Don't speak for me. I saw it as McCain saying that Americans are going to put a permanent military base of operations in Iraq. I am firmly against it. It's their country. Not ours.



Let's get out of them all, and start paying down the debt. Americans are taxed to provide national defense for Japan, Germany, France... the list goes on and on. Why? Why should we be taxed to provide national defense for these nations? Why can't they provide their own armies for their own defense?

TJ, Japan does not want a large military force, what are you gonna do, force them to re-arm? That could lead to many regional arms battles (Japan starts re-arming, then China feels it's gotta have more weapons, the North Korea starts to need more weapons, then South Korea starts to get paranoid and starts to spend more money on arms, then other nations like Vietnam, Thailand, the Phillipines, etc., all start to spend money on arms).

Yah, good idea TJ.

[Spider]

just because there are still attacks and death in Iraq for you to list doesn't mean the surge has not worked Liberals just were hoping for the surge to mean more American dead and it hasn't so they are bummed out. If the surge had not worked then Obama would be a shoe in.

.

you need to be backhanded into the middle of next week

[Tombstone RJ]

Someone needs to kick you in the mouth!

He must have hit a nerve.

[Tombstone RJ]

you need to be backhanded into the middle of next week

If there is one political sect of this country that can be considered anti-American, its the far left.

The same far left that put up this ad about McCain.

[Spider]

If there is one political sect of this country that can be considered anti-American, its the far left.

The same far left that put up this ad about McCain.

Define anti American .........

[Bronco Jamus]

The violence in Iraq has gone down, but there are people still dying.

[Spider]

Most far Left Libs I know don't want death or for our troops to die ...... they dont want anyone to die , Including Iraqis , they just want us the **** out of Iraq ...... They dont want America to be an imperialistic country , is imperialism now considered an American Value ?
I think we have over 700 bases world wide ......

[Tombstone RJ]

Define anti American .........

Jane Fonda when she was sleeping with the North Vietnamese, examples like that.

[Tombstone RJ]

Most far Left Libs I know don't want death or for our troops to die ...... they dont want anyone to die , Including Iraqis , they just want us the **** out of Iraq ...... They dont want America to be an imperialistic country , is imperialism now considered an American Value ?
I think we have over 700 bases world wide ......

Define "imperialistic."

[Spider]

Jane Fonda when she was sleeping with the North Vietnamese, examples like that.
that was anti American ? what American Beliefs did she trample on ?

[Spider]

Define "imperialistic."

700 Basis world wide . that I had already posted that .......

[MplsBronco]

There's Tombstone raising the level of stupidity. Thoughtless twerp. Got any other catchphrases for the simple-minded?

[Tombstone RJ]

:flower: that was anti American ? what American Beliefs did she trample on ?

It's gleams of anti-American when American soldiers are dying fighting a war, and Jane Fonda is riding on an enemy tank and marching with enemy soldiers.

Also, Jane Fonda passed secrets onto the NVA after she spent time with POWs.

To me, thats anti-American.

[Spider]

:flower:

It's gleams of anti-American when American soldiers are dying fighting a war, and Jane Fonda is riding on an enemy tank and marching with enemy soldiers.

Also, Jane Fonda passed secrets onto the NVA after she spent time with POWs.

To me, thats anti-American.we got into that war on a lie . and partly cause of the french ..... she didnt ride on enemy tank , she sat on a anti aircraft gun , the secrets are flat out bull**** , that was a lie , the guys in the line said that . my Dad was in Nam

[Tombstone RJ]

700 Basis world wide . that I had already posted that .......

If those countries want US bases there, then that is not impire building.

You need to look at what the British did back between the 16th and early 20th century to understand imperialism.

The US is not an impire. It advocates free elections and building democracy, that that is a far cry from building an impire.

[Tombstone RJ]

we got into that war on a lie . and partly cause of the french ..... she didnt ride on enemy tank , she sat on a anti aircraft gun , the secrets are flat out bull**** , that was a lie , the guys in the line said that . my Dad was in Nam

Oops, sorry, she sat on an anti-aircraft gun... does that make you feel better about what she did?

Most of us know someone who served in Nam, the people I know say something different.

[cutthemdown]

Jane Fonda was outright treacherous to have done what she did. You don't help the enemy in any way period!

[Spider]

If those countries want US bases there, then that is not impire building.

You need to look at what the British did back between the 16th and early 20th century to understand imperialism.

The US is not an impire. It advocates free elections and building democracy, that that is a far cry from building an impire.

free elections as long we agree with the outcome , we meddle in the election you are wrong about everyone wanting us in their country , the middle east for example , Cuba , us being in over 700 places is setting up colonies , military conquest , or economical conquest ..... thats imperialism

[Spider]

Oops, sorry, she sat on an anti-aircraft gun... does that make you feel better about what she did?

Most of us know someone who served in Nam, the people I know say something different.

Huge difference in a anti aircraft gun and a tank .... and you still believed she passed on secrets .......but yo ustill didnt answer the question ...... What American beliefs did she trample on

[cutthemdown]

Just having bases isn't imperialism. Go tell Germans and Italians you are part of the American empire and see what they say. Having bases in those countries is good it gives us a larger sphere in which to train etc and launch operations from.

Imperialism in the neo-lib sphere is any larger country exerting influence over a smaller country. That isn't imperialism.

[Spider]

Jane Fonda was outright treacherous to have done what she did. You don't help the enemy in any way period!

this topic is over your head , this isnt about if she was right or wrong , this is about what beliefs aka anti American she trampled on ........

[cutthemdown]

If S Korea was part of our empire we wouldn't have let them ban our beef. If Germany and Italy were then we wouldn't care about the EU having a better economy. When your an empire all the money comes to you.

You people should study how Rome and Greece worked to understand what an Empire is. USA ain't crap compared to them. We are just a powerfull country nothing more.

[cutthemdown]

this topic is over your head , this isnt about if she was right or wrong , this is about what beliefs aka anti American she trampled on ........

When you go against your country it's unpatriotic. Patriotism is a cornerstone of American value.

[Spider]

Just having bases isn't imperialism. Go tell Germans and Italians you are part of the American empire and see what they say. Having bases in those countries is good it gives us a larger sphere in which to train etc and launch operations from.

Imperialism in the neo-lib sphere is any larger country exerting influence over a smaller country. That isn't imperialism.

you simple **** I pointed out countries that didnt want us there and we are there ...... thats imperialism , has nothing to do with countries that want us ....good grief you are in over your head , find another topic and I will go play a game with you

[Spider]

When you go against your country it's unpatriotic. Patriotism is a cornerstone of American value.

again you are pretty simple , did she go against the country or the war ...... a war that was started on a lie ...... go think for awhile

[cutthemdown]

Spider you need to go see the Wizard...................Tin Man.

[Spider]

If S Korea was part of our empire we wouldn't have let them ban our beef. If Germany and Italy were then we wouldn't care about the EU having a better economy. When your an empire all the money comes to you.

You people should study how Rome and Greece worked to understand what an Empire is. USA ain't crap compared to them. We are just a powerfull country nothing more.

dont believe everything you read ...... we are a very imperialistic country I didnt say we was an empire genius

[Spider]

Spider you need to go see the Wizard...................Tin Man.

Yeah . ok

[cutthemdown]

you simple **** I pointed out countries that didnt want us there and we are there ...... thats imperialism , has nothing to do with countries that want us ....good grief you are in over your head , find another topic and I will go play a game with you

most communities want the bases because they bring in money. If they didn't want them they would ask us to leave. Out of the 700 bases you speak of which ones are the people from those countries asking us to leave. Or are you just making that up because you are a great trucker.

I know we have problems in Okinawa and Iraq but go ask Kuwaitis if they would like us to leave?

[Traveler]

Jane Fonda when she was sleeping with the North Vietnamese, examples like that.

Damn! You really pulled one out your a$$ on this one. If Fonda's your example, then name one American citizen that has publically sided with Al-Queda in the same manner that she supposedly did.

This ought to be interesting.

[Spider]

most communities want the bases because they bring in money. If they didn't want them they would ask us to leave. Out of the 700 bases you speak of which ones are the people from those countries asking us to leave. Or are you just making that up because you are a great trucker.

I know we have problems in Okinawa and Iraq but go ask Kuwaitis if they would like us to leave?
you are too simple , why not ask Cuba ? why not ask the Saudi citizen ? Philipienes ? Samolia ?

[Rigs11]

When you go against your country it's unpatriotic. Patriotism is a cornerstone of American value.

What a crock.making sure that your government does not ruin your country is the biggest form of patriotism. Following along blindly is not patriotism, it's ignorance.

[Tombstone RJ]

Huge difference in a anti aircraft gun and a tank .... and you still believed she passed on secrets .......but yo ustill didnt answer the question ...... What American beliefs did she trample on

Anti-aicraft guns are used to shoot down American pilots Spide. If anything, it's worse than a tank because the NVA never got chance to use their tanks against American forces, at least I don't know of any "tank" battles in Nam, I could be wrong.

It's her actions that I interpret as anti-American. Her actions IMO negatively effected moral over in Vietnam.

[Spider]

Anti-aicraft guns are used to shoot down American pilots Spide. well that explains where the gun gots it name . now that is covered ........ If anything, it's worse than a tank because the NVA never got chance to use their tanks against American forces, at least I don't know of any "tank" battles in Nam, I could be wrong.I dont know ......

It's her actions that I interpret as anti-American. Her actions IMO negatively effected moral over in Vietnam.
Here is my theory , if we are in war for the right reasons doesnt matter what someone like Jane Fonda or Sean Penn says or does ......... If 1 person can affect morale , then you have other issues with your war to be dealt with

[TexanBob]

Americans are taxed to provide national defense for Japan, Germany, France... the list goes on and on. Why? Why should we be taxed to provide national defense for these nations? Why can't they provide their own armies for their own defense?

Because the last time Japan and Germany had their own armies, it cost us more guys than about 100 Iraq wars.

[Spider]

Because the last time Japan and Germany had their own armies, it cost us more guys than about 100 Iraq wars.

;D I knew sooner or later you would post something that makes sense ......

[Tombstone RJ]

Damn! You really pulled one out your a$$ on this one. If Fonda's your example, then name one American citizen that has publically sided with Al-Queda in the same manner that she supposedly did.

This ought to be interesting.

I used it as a metaphore and as an example.

[Spider]

see what Cuthtemdown cant grasp is countries that want us there we should be there , I think we should build a huge base in Taiwan , but those countries that dont want us there we are still there that makes us imperialistic .......

[Tombstone RJ]

free elections as long we agree with the outcome , we meddle in the election you are wrong about everyone wanting us in their country , the middle east for example , Cuba , us being in over 700 places is setting up colonies , military conquest , or economical conquest ..... thats imperialism

Please provide concrete examples instead of broad sweeping accusations.

[Spider]

Please provide concrete examples instead of broad sweeping accusations.

I just did ...... in 3 or 4 different post , I really shouldnt have to post Cuba , Philipeenes , the middle east ....again should I

[Tombstone RJ]

see what Cuthtemdown cant grasp is countries that want us there we should be there , I think we should build a huge base in Taiwan , but those countries that dont want us there we are still there that makes us imperialistic .......

I think your confused on who wants what. For example, South Korea. There are many younger people in South Korea that don't want US forces there, that is true, however, the goverment, which is freely elected by the people, does want the US forces there.

There is a difference.

[TexanBob]

The next soldier to die in Kosovo--a very brief war that had a non-lied into humanitarian mission--will be the first.

There have been 14 U.S. deaths in Bosnia-Kosovo.

Let me see if I have this right:

Freeing Kosovars from the tyranny of Milosovic = humanitarian.
Freeing Iraqis from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein = non humanitarian.

[Tombstone RJ]

I just did ...... in 3 or 4 different post , I really shouldnt have to post Cuba , Philipeenes , the middle east ....again should I

Cuba is a weak example, that is a military base in a hostile, sworn enemy of the US. Are you really siding with Castro?

The Phillipines government wants the US there.

The Saudi government wants US bases there.

The Kuwaiti government wants US bases there.

Now, when those governments (aside from Cuba) request the US military to leave, that is a different story.

[Spider]

I think your confused on who wants what. For example, South Korea. There are many younger people in South Korea that don't want US forces there, that is true, however, the goverment, which is freely elected by the people, does want the US forces there.

There is a difference.

No I am not confused , I just dont have the attitude of **** the people Government knows whats best ........ Isnt it funny those on the right have that attitude that government knows best ........

[Spider]

Cuba is a weak example, that is a military base in a hostile, sworn enemy of the US. Are you really siding with Castro?

The Phillipines government wants the US there.

The Saudi government wants US bases there.

The Kuwaiti government wants US bases there.

Now, when those governments (aside from Cuba) request the US military to leave, that is a different story.

And since when has someone on the right Argued Governments know best ......

[TexanBob]

Someone needs to kick you in the mouth!

you need to be backhanded into the middle of next week

Amazing how quickly these peaceful, anti-war liberals want to resort to violence...

[Tombstone RJ]

And since when has someone on the right Argued Governments know best ......

That is just weak Spide, ya know? That's just some weak azz schit.

[Spider]

Amazing how quickly these peaceful, anti-war liberals want to resort to violence...

first off dumb ass who said I was anti war ?
I was very much for the war in Afghanistan , posting stupid **** like this just ruins your credibility , and I am anything but peace lover you twerp , I just dont believe in invading countries just because you can ....... But your dumb ass in check you texican

[Spider]

That is just weak Spide, ya know? That's just some weak azz schit.

But true ...... so now tell me again how governments know best ......

[Tombstone RJ]

No I am not confused , I just dont have the attitude of **** the people Government knows whats best ........ Isnt it funny those on the right have that attitude that government knows best ........

Dude, I'm and Independent, like I've stated.

Your the one preaching for more government, no?

Weak.

[Tombstone RJ]

But true ...... so now tell me again how governments know best ......

No my good man, you tell me, after all you like Obama.

[TailgateNut]

Amazing how quickly these peaceful, anti-war liberals want to resort to violence...


Go **** off! When someone claims that a group is "anti american", I tend to have an issue, especially if that someone supports policies which are responsible for thousands of american deaths.

[TexanBob]

Damn! You really pulled one out your a$$ on this one. If Fonda's your example, then name one American citizen that has publically sided with Al-Queda in the same manner that she supposedly did.

This ought to be interesting.

John Walker Lindh.

[Bronco Jamus]

How does a McCain presidency resolve not only Iraq, but Iran peacefully? I just don't see it. It doesn't matter that he didn't mean a one hundred year war, what matters is that he's willing to occupy a country as long as it takes to make American permanent presence a nonviolent situation--which will never happen with Iran's current politics.

I don't know whether McCain would go to war with Iran, but it's something we should all worry about. At the very least, we'll need surge-level troops for a long, long time, to keep this surreal status quo in Iraq.


Because there isn't a policitical solution to Iraq. Iran? Gosh I hope so. Do you think Iran can be trusted with nuclear arms. Especially when their President has openly discussed wiping Isreal from the map? What would that do to global trade? McCain is better equiped to deal with these issues than Obama.

I have said it before, Obama would be great from a domestic perspective. foreign policy? Not so much.

[Spider]

Dude, I'm and Independent, like I've stated.

Your the one preaching for more government, no?

Weak.
Not as much government as Bush built up ........ and the only government programs I endorse is the ones we had in place before Bush ( well except for oil ) ........you might be an Independent , but you lean so far right , you dont have any idea of what the left side of your body looks like

[Bronco Jamus]

Go **** off! When someone claims that a group is "anti american", I tend to have an issue, especially if that someone supports policies which are responsible for thousands of american deaths.

It's still no reason to threaten people with violence.

[Spider]

No my good man, you tell me, after all you like Obama.

No no no . you stated clearly that the people may not want us in their country , but the governments do ........ you lean right , I want you to explain to me how governments know whats best

[TailgateNut]

Go cry on someone elses' shoulder.

[Tombstone RJ]

Not as much government as Bush built up ........ and the only government programs I endorse is the ones we had in place before Bush ( well except for oil ) ........you might be an Independent , but you lean so far right , you dont have any idea of what the left side of your body looks like

Thank God For That!ROFL!

[Bronco Jamus]

Go cry on someone elses' shoulder.

Just don't threaten people and I am sure no one will have a problem with your posts.

[Spider]

Thank God For That!ROFL!

LOL well seeing how I am ambidextrous , I need bothsides ;D

[Tombstone RJ]

Not as much government as Bush built up ........ and the only government programs I endorse is the ones we had in place before Bush ( well except for oil ) ........you might be an Independent , but you lean so far right , you dont have any idea of what the left side of your body looks like

Just because I want lower taxes and less government, doesn't mean I don't straddle the fence, and lean left on many issues.

Alternative energy is one place I side with the left. The environment is another place I tend to lean left. Many domestic policies, I tend to lean left.

Here's one--GAY MARRIAGE! I don't care if gays want to get married, go right ahead!

Let gays screw their lives up, what do I care? Seriously, it's a non-issue with me.

[Spider]

Just because I want lower taxes and less government, doesn't mean I don't straddle the fence, and lean left on many issues.

Alternative energy is one place I side with the left. The environment is another place I tend to lean left. Many domestic policies, I tend to lean left.

Here's one--GAY MARRIAGE! I don't care if gays want to get married, go right ahead!

Let gays screw their lives up, what do I care? Seriously, it's a non-issue with me.

Now see I am a dem , I say we can drill our way out of trouble , I want more nuclear plants , I want clean coal , I could care less about ANWAR except for the cost of shipping oil down here ,when we got plenty right here .....
Alt energy is great aslong as it is practical ........

[Bronco Jamus]

We should import oil until it's gone and then we have the oil here.

[Spider]

We should import oil until it's gone and then we have the oil here.

Please dont think .......

[Tombstone RJ]

Now see I am a dem , I say we can drill our way out of trouble , I want more nuclear plants , I want clean coal , I could care less about ANWAR except for the cost of shipping oil down here ,when we got plenty right here .....
Alt energy is great aslong as it is practical ........

I think less dependency on fossil fuels, long term, is just better for the planet. As for nuclear power plants, I'm all for it. As long as they are safe, it's great, build away!

Practicallity has everything to do with alternative energy, I agree 100%. But we need a real concerted effort to get it going, and neither the dems nor the reps want to walk that line...

[Spider]

I think less dependency on fossil fuels, long term, is just better for the planet. As for nuclear power plants, I'm all for it. As long as they are safe, it's great, build away!

Practicallity has everything to do with alternative energy, I agree 100%. But we need a real concerted effort to get it going, and neither the dems nor the reps want to walk that line...

yeah over time getting off of fossil fuel is a good Idea ....... Dems and reps dont want alt energy , 1 major reason is job loss .....

[cutthemdown]

you are too simple , why not ask Cuba ? why not ask the Saudi citizen ? Philipienes ? Samolia ?

so you say we have 700 imperialist bases and list 4 countries one of which I don't think we have bases in Somalia.

I would think if we have 700 bases you would need to show a majority of the countries don't want us there.

True a handful of countries citizens may feel the way you say they do. But that doesn't make us imperialistic.

[Spider]

so you say we have 700 imperialist bases and list 4 countries one of which I don't think we have bases in Somalia.

I would think if we have 700 bases you would need to show a majority of the countries don't want us there.

True a handful of countries citizens may feel the way you say they do. But that doesn't make us imperialistic.

Oh shut up Tombstone already covered it .......

[cutthemdown]

What a crock.making sure that your government does not ruin your country is the biggest form of patriotism. Following along blindly is not patriotism, it's ignorance.

Just because someone is patriotic doesn't mean they are blind. That isn't a logical formula you are using there.

[cutthemdown]

Go cry on someone elses' shoulder.

The left cries way more then the right you little baby.

[TailgateNut]

The left cries way more then the right you little baby.


You've obviously have done studies, or have sources which can confirm your claim.

I could also "blurt out" that the righties are cowards who love to send others to do their fighting for them.

[Traveler]

John Walker Lindh.

You might wanna do a little research on the kid. Strike one!

[bronco militia]

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what a gigantic piece of horse crap...


and lmao at this annual orangemane thread since 9/11. 7 years later and I'm still waiting for a draft

[TailgateNut]

what a gigantic piece of horse crap...

7 years later and I'm still waiting for a draft



Don't wait, ENLIST now, GWB needs you for HIS war!

[Spider]

what a gigantic piece of horse crap...


and lmao at this annual orangemane thread since 9/11. 7 years later and I'm still waiting for a draft

So am I to assume you ill be heading over as well as your children ? or is that someone elses problem ?

[TailgateNut]

So am I to assume you ill be heading over as well as your children ? or is that someone elses problem ?


No he wont, but he is currently busy looking in the "RRRH" (Religious Republican Right Handbook) for an acceptable excuse!

[snowspot66]

Cuba (Spanish American War AND Bay of Pigs), Hati, Panama, Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan (the 80's and present day), Iran, Iraq.

Just a few of the countries we've ****ed with in one way or another. The only one that can be remotely considered a success is South Korea and it's minor little flaw is the most heavily armed border in the world and a war that is technically still going over 50 years later.

Take Africa for an example. It's a complete ****ing hell hole but it's in the process of turning around in a lot of regions. Why? The colonial powers left. They just picked up and left. The armed and corrupt filled the power vacuum. The people put up with it for a while and then they got sick of it. THEY decided they wanted change and made it. Sometimes they made it several times. But now the dictators are aging and falling by the side of the road. In 50 years Africa will be the new Asia. In 100 years they might even be second world countries. Cost to us? Negligible.

We shouldn't be in Iraq. We shouldn't be anywhere. When are we going to learn that the worst way to make positive change in another country is to involve our own government? Nothing ever works out. We destabilize **** in the attempt to improve our situation and end up turning friends into enemies. The country goes even further into ****, we get ****ed, and a lot of people die. Oh yeah, when **** is finally sorted out to some extent they all end up hating our guts.

The only real chance we had with any of those countries was Afghanistan this latest go around. After the Taliban they would accept anybody to help. We need to learn that the only way a country can change is if the people who live there make it happen. We have to accept that not all people want democracy. Not all people care about democracy. They simply want to have land of their own and a chance to prosper and raise a family. What a strange notion eh? They don't care what type of government or rules they have as long as they can have those things.

As Americans we get all caught up in our own Constitution and material possessions. We forget that our country is one of the largest in the world, has massive resources, and is founded upon over 200 years of precident and stable government. We're spoiled. We need to realize that what we have is rare, not common, and that not all people want what we want.

Free speech? America is the only western country without laws banning some form of hate speech. Even Canada doesn't protect speech to the extent that we do. Every other western country has banned it in some way or form. They've seen how we do it, evaluated it, and decided it was not for them. Our country was forged in the era of The Enlightenment and it was a miracle that it worked out. Other western countries tried and failed where we succeeded. We need to realize it's something about the people HERE that make it work. It won't magically transfer over to the rest of the world. Different cultures different rules. We can't go parading around flexing our muscles and make it all how we think it should be. We need to accept it as it is and learn to leave **** be.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Maybe I don't know but I thought enlistment was 6 yrs for regular service. Reservists I know have an 8 yr commitment but they knew that going in.

Anyone who joined the regular Marines, Army that joined because of 9-11 would have already had the choice to not re enlist right? can someone in the military enlighten us?

Regardless though every single man and woman in the military volunteered so its a non issue. Not one person was forced.This is why I told you to research those terms. Most troops have indeed been assigned to duty over and over in Iraq and some have been stopped loss. Some have finished their enlistment terms and been recalled because the military can't get enough troops.

This is no war, this is an invasion an occupation suffered by the same relatively few troops, not the American people.

[Dukes]

Just forced to "re-up" due to the stop loss policies. Tell me those guys had a choice.

You are on of the few on this board who seems to think all these soldiers are celebrating their time in Iraq.

Join them and then continue your rants.

Give me a break. You don't speak for the troops or veterans. My entire 5 years in the Marines there were only a handfull that were stop lossed, and that was in '03 during the invation. EVERY serviceman I know was proud to go to Iraq and would go again. And YES, I did enjoy my tour in Iraq. Quit talking out of your ***

[Rohirrim]

Give me a break. You don't speak for the troops or veterans.

To belabor the obvious, neither do you.

[gunns]

9-11 was a long time ago. Anyone who signed up after 9-11 would have already had to re-enlist genius. By the way you don't know what the troops are feeling.

By the way the surge worked and Iraq is getting better and better.


Let's see who the genius is....enlist for 6 years, war started in 2003, a DOH! :homer: And because of the surge, they've had more than one deployment. AND yes I think I do know what quite a few of them are thinking. They are over there for their buddies now, they know they aren't fighting for our freedoms. What freedoms would they be fighting for genius?

Talk to quiettiger about the surge. I'm SURE he knows more about it than you do.

BTW, my son was in college also when he enlisted. Had just started his masters in architecture.

[gunns]

Give me a break. You don't speak for the troops or veterans. My entire 5 years in the Marines there were only a handfull that were stop lossed, and that was in '03 during the invation. EVERY serviceman I know was proud to go to Iraq and would go again. And YES, I did enjoy my tour in Iraq. Quit talking out of your ***

I'd check your own ass before talking again. You're full of it.

[Bronco Jamus]

I'd check your own ass before talking again. You're full of it.

He was talking about his own experience where the other poster was not. It's very clear in his post.

[gunns]

He was talking about his own experience where the other poster was not. It's very clear in his post.

It must have been isolated then. Just taking care packages and cooking meals for my sons different troops I found the majority not agreeing with the reason they enlisted and what the war represents. They are proud of their duty, because it is their duty, and the fact they protect one another, but they do not feel this is a war fighting for our freedoms. None of us can speak for ALL the troops so I sincerely doubt EVERY one felt proud of fighting in this war.

[Bronco Jamus]

It must have been isolated then. Just taking care packages and cooking meals for my sons different troops I found the majority not agreeing with the reason they enlisted and what the war represents. They are proud of their duty, because it is their duty, and the fact they protect one another, but they do not feel this is a war fighting for our freedoms.

It's not about our freedoms. It's about theirs. And while I certainly think one can lead a horse to water it doesn't mean they'll drink. We've made a mess and now we have to clean it up. If we can help the people there clean up the fundamentalists, everybody will be better for it.

I can't speak for the soldiers, all I can do is thank them and show them the respect they so richly deserve.

[Dukes]

It must have been isolated then. Just taking care packages and cooking meals for my sons different troops I found the majority not agreeing with the reason they enlisted and what the war represents. They are proud of their duty, because it is their duty, and the fact they protect one another, but they do not feel this is a war fighting for our freedoms. None of us can speak for ALL the troops so I sincerely doubt EVERY one felt proud of fighting in this war.

And what were the reasons for their enlistments? Anyone who enlisted after March '03 or even 9/11 has no room to complain. If they thought they wouldn't go to war they were duped, and aren't very smart to begin with.

[gunns]

And what were the reasons for their enlistments? Anyone who enlisted after March '03 or even 9/11 has no room to complain. If they thought they wouldn't go to war they were duped, and aren't very smart to begin with.

In March 03, after 9-11, most thought they were enlisting to fight against those that attempted to take our freedoms, the ones who had masterminded 9-11 and launched an attack on our country, they thought they were defending their country. Like all of us they bought the BS Bush dished out. They knew they were going to war, they thought it was America's war against terrorism, not just Bush's war.

[Rohirrim]

And what were the reasons for their enlistments? Anyone who enlisted after March '03 or even 9/11 has no room to complain. If they thought they wouldn't go to war they were duped, and aren't very smart to begin with.

They were laboring under the misconception that their president would lead them against the actual perpetrators of the crime rather than abuse their patriotic sacrifice at the altar of his warped personal interests. They joined to serve country and were tricked into serving Halliburton. The average American still cannot comprehend the true extent of Bush and Cheney's arrogance.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

When you go against your country it's unpatriotic. Patriotism is a cornerstone of American value.

http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/images/BB/blindpat2-3.jpg

It's hard to believe there are still right-wing knuckle draggers out there who deliberately try to confuse 'country' with 'government' or 'policy.'

[bronco militia]

So am I to assume you ill be heading over as well as your children ? or is that someone elses problem ?

I've already been over there....what about yoo guys?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/mccain-vs-mccain.jpg
</center>

[Spider]

I've already been over there....what about yoo guys?

I dont support the war , so why should I go again ?

[bronco militia]

I dont support the war , so why should I go again ?

well by golly , that's not fair! there should be a draft! Ha!

[Spider]

well by golly , that's not fair! there should be a draft! Ha!

I did volunteer to go to Afghanistan though , but they was more selective back then , told me I was too old , But i refuse to go Iraq , ****ing with people that never did anything to us , just aint right