The Ad that will destroy McCain and any hopes he has

[Spider]

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[BroncoBuff]

Wow.

It's gonna be a landslide anyway ...

[Spider]

LOL , I was waiting for right wingers to come here and shout flip floppin waffling waffler ........

[TexanBob]

A fair hard-hitting ad. McCain has defended Bush on the War in Iraq for the most part and has been all over the map for/against Bush on just about everything else.

He has a really difficult job convincing Republicans that he is one of them while convincing non-Republicans that he is not. If Arnold Schwarzeneggar were able to run for president, he'd have pretty much the same tightrope act.

[Spider]

A fair hard-hitting ad. McCain has defended Bush on the War in Iraq for the most part and has been all over the map for/against Bush on just about everything else.

He has a really difficult job convincing Republicans that he is one of them while convincing non-Republicans that he is not. If Arnold Schwarzeneggar were able to run for president, he'd have pretty much the same tightrope act.

Yeah , though if he had went forward on drilling up section 181 , we would have won alot of moderates ( note the vote isnt called section 181) , it is called drilling off the continental shelf Not Covered by a Moratorium or some **** like that ......

[Tombstone RJ]

I think it's a pretty week ad. He's saying he's agreed more with Bush than he has not on stuff like foreign policy.

Big deal. He's also pissed the GOP off enough for them to blacklist him.

Not just "Bush" the entire ****ing GOP. It's the GOP political machine that he's been at odds with.

It's a political ad meant to twist things around. It's been edited. Cut and paste crap.

Again, he's walked the hardest line on Capital Hill and he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. The Left is gonna say he's another Bush, the Right is gonna say he's not conservative enough.

[Spider]

I think it's a pretty week ad. He's saying he's agreed more with Bush than he has not on stuff like foreign policy.

Big deal. He's also pissed the GOP off enough for them to blacklist him.

Not just "Bush" the entire ****ing GOP. It's the GOP political machine that he's been at odds with.

It's a political ad meant to twist things around. It's been edited. Cut and paste crap.

Again, he's walked the hardest line on Capital Hill and he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. The Left is gonna say he's another Bush, the Right is gonna say he's not conservative enough.
Plenty of people have seen McCain on TV say one thing then the other , this ad will hit home ........ Right now everyone sees GOP and see McCain and right away 4 more years of Bushism ......
The Dems will tie Budh to McCain like an anchor around the neck

[peacepipe]

McCain is no maverick,never was one. McCain is showing himself to be someone that sold himself out to the neo-cons of the republican party.

[Tombstone RJ]

Plenty of people have seen McCain on TV say one thing then the other , this ad will hit home ........ Right now everyone sees GOP and see McCain and right away 4 more years of Bushism ......
The Dems will tie Budh to McCain like an anchor around the neck

I know that's what the Dems will try to do, and it's the biggest irony in the world.

[Spider]

I know that's what the Dems will try to do, and it's the biggest irony in the world.

How so ?

[Tombstone RJ]

How so ?

Because McCain has proven time and time again that he can work with Democrats.

[Spider]

Because McCain has proven time and time again that he can work with Democrats.

On some Issues , not major ones , But McCain has said he will make the tax cuts for the top1% permanent , he has agreed with Bush more then he has disagreed .......those sound bites will be used against him

[peacepipe]

Because McCain has proven time and time again that he can work with Democrats.& how does that show he isn't a 3rd bush term in waiting? He isn't the only sen. to reach across party lines to get something passed.

[Tombstone RJ]

On some Issues , not major ones , But McCain has said he will make the tax cuts for the top1% permanent , he has agreed with Bush more then he has disagreed .......those sound bites will be used against him

If you know what issues McCain has agreed and disagreed with Bush on, please point those out because I think it's pretty important stuff.

As for tax cuts, yes, he's stated that he will lower corporate taxes in order to stimulate ecomonic growth. He will lower business taxes from 30% to 25% to encourage companies move to the US to start new businesses.

[Tombstone RJ]

& how does that show he isn't a 3rd bush term in waiting? He isn't the only sen. to reach across party lines to get something passed.

Lot's of ways. First he's an enviromentalist, unlike Bush, secondly he wants to rid the US of foreign oil dependency, unlike Bush, thirdly he wants to put alternative energies at the forefront of the economy, unlike Bush...

[TexanBob]

If he's president, the Democrats are going to make McCain their bitch. He's already been their bitch in the Senate, so that will be nothing new. McCain will get passed what the Democrats want and not get passed what the Democrats don't want. He caves to the Left like a little bitch every time CNN or the Washington Post or the New York Times has their panties in a wad over something. Why would he be different in the White House than he has been in the Senate?

McCain is the Democrats' useful idiot. They own him and he somehow thinks they really like him. No, they just really like using him because they get their way with him.

Decision '08: Clueless or Communist? What a great election this is shaping up to be!

[BroncoBuff]

The thing is this:

Barring a huge event/scandal ... McCain can't get any MORE popular, because he's already very well known.

Obama on the other hand, I cannot see how he can get LESS popular from here on. All of the anti-black and solid-red vote is already polling full throat, they won't get any louder. But those who poll "undecided" must be at least open to learning more about him. And based on the past year, those who learn more about him inevitably like what they see.

I really think, for a variety of reasons, that barring a sea change or scandal, The margin will only widen in Obama's favor.

[Tombstone RJ]

If he's president, the Democrats are going to make McCain their b****. He's already been their b**** in the Senate, so that will be nothing new. McCain will get passed what the Democrats want and not get passed what the Democrats don't want. He caves to the Left like a little b**** every time CNN or the Washington Post or the New York Times has their panties in a wad over something. Why would he be different in the White House than he has been in the Senate?

McCain is the Democrats' useful idiot. They own him and he somehow thinks they really like him. No, they just really like using him because they get their way with him.

Decision '08: Clueless or Communist? What a great election this is shaping up to be!

Your just reacting to the fact that the GOP has failed dramatically and the face of that failure is Bush Jr.

It's ok. Drink a beer, vote for McCain, and try to think more like an Independant instead of a Rush Limbaugh diciple.

[peacepipe]

If you know what issues McCain has agreed and disagreed with Bush on, please point those out because I think it's pretty important stuff.

As for tax cuts, yes, he's stated that he will lower corporate taxes in order to stimulate ecomonic growth. He will lower business taxes from 30% to 25% to encourage companies move to the US to start new businesses.
He's flip flopped on tax cuts. he was against them than he was for them(don't blame him,how else would he have gotten nominated)

[peacepipe]

Lot's of ways. First he's an enviromentalist, unlike Bush, secondly he wants to rid the US of foreign oil dependency, unlike Bush, thirdly he wants to put alternative energies at the forefront of the economy, unlike Bush...considering he has voted 89% of the time in favor of bush,don't hold hold against me if I let the facts dictate where he stands.

[Tombstone RJ]

considering he has voted 89% of the time in favor of bush,don't hold hold against me if I let the facts dictate where he stands.

Where did you get that number. Please reveal your scources.

[Spider]

If you know what issues McCain has agreed and disagreed with Bush on, please point those out because I think it's pretty important stuff.

As for tax cuts, yes, he's stated that he will lower corporate taxes in order to stimulate ecomonic growth. He will lower business taxes from 30% to 25% to encourage companies move to the US to start new businesses.

He has stood side by side with Bush on Farm veto Bill ,On Judges , Gitmo http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080614/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_detainees;_ylt=AtlbdKsK2tLEl3j4oPTGVROs0NUE
a few other things I dont want to look up right now

[Tombstone RJ]

He's flip flopped on tax cuts. he was against them than he was for them(don't blame him,how else would he have gotten nominated)

Please give me concrete examples.

[Tombstone RJ]

He has stood side by side with Bush on Farm veto Bill ,On Judges , Gitmo http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080614/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_detainees;_ylt=AtlbdKsK2tLEl3j4oPTGVROs0NUE
a few other things I dont want to look up right now

The link you provide is a story on McCain not liking the supreme courts decision on the terrorist detainees.

I love his stance on that issue.

As far as what you looked up, it ain't much Spide.

So, he was "side by side with bush on the Farm Veto Bill" Ok, that's one bill you've pulled up. There's about 500 more bills out there, where did he side on those, if you please? I'm willing to bet he voted pretty conservatively in some areas, like National Security and liberal in other areas, like the enviroment.

As far as judges, he wants conservative judges. So do I. Alot of people do, does that mean he's a Bush cronie, no. He sites John Roberts as a choice he would put forth. Great, at least I know where he stands.

[Spider]

The link you provide is a story on McCain not liking the supreme courts decision on the terrorist detainees.

I love his stance on that issue.

As far as what you looked up, it ain't much Spide.

So, he was "side by side with bush on the Farm Veto Bill" Ok, that's one bill you've pulled up. There's about 500 more bills out there, where did he side on those, if you please? I'm willing to bet he voted pretty conservatively in some areas, like National Security and liberal in other areas, like the enviroment.

As far as judges, he wants conservative judges. So do I. Alot of people do, does that mean he's a Bush cronie, no. He sites John Roberts as a choice he would put forth. Great, at least I know where he stands.
to be honest I am too damn tired to pull up everything , but Yeah McCain is good on enviro issues , but man we need the economy fixed .....
It is hard for me to be slamming on McCain , cause I like the old bastard , I really do , but this isnt about who I like or dislike , it is about running the country .... McCain would keep the loopholes Bush's team created back in 2000 for commodity trading ( aka Oil) ..dude I cant handle 4 more years of this **** ...... we should take care of the planet , I hate oil rigs with a passion , but until a viable alt fuel comes up , we need em , we can drill our way out of this .....

[Spider]

oh and I am totaly against the Judges Bush / McCain would support .... But yeah McCain would be Bush's cronie on the economy and energy

[spdirty]

oh and I am totaly against the Judges Bush / McCain would support .... But yeah McCain would be Bush's cronie on the economy and energy

well, McCain doesnt want to drill in ANWR and Bush does...the reason Mc doesnt want to is cuz its the same as drilling in the Grand Canyon.

[Spider]

well, McCain doesnt want to drill in ANWR and Bush does...the reason Mc doesnt want to is cuz its the same as drilling in the Grand Canyon.
yeah I would agree , but Mccain is also against Shale , section 181 .Obama is against shale also .......but is for gulf stream drilling

[spdirty]

yeah I would agree , but Mccain is also against Shale , section 181 .Obama is against shale also .......but is for gulf stream drilling

I thought McCain is for off shore drilling too.

[Rigs11]

Please give me concrete examples.

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/mccain_bush.cfm

[TexanBob]

Drink a beer, vote for McCain, and try to think more like an Independant.

I'm already thinking like an independant. I voted for Obama :afro: in the primaries because I can't stand McCain and a McCain-Clinton election would have been like watching the Iran-Iraq war from the 1980s.

In fact, I'll probably vote third party or not vote at all for President. How's THAT for independence?

Decision '08: Clueless or Communist?

[Spider]

I thought McCain is for off shore drilling.

he had NV he didnt vote on it ....

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Where did you get that number. Please reveal your scources.

McCAIN & BUSH: IS THERE REALLY A DIFFERENCE? (http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/mccain_bush.cfm)

Sen. John McCain has long promoted the idea that he is a “straight-talking maverick” who challenges his party and stands up to his president. However, despite the media misrepresentation, McCain has not strayed too far from President George Bush’s line, especially on issues important to working families. McCain is not running for a term of his own; he is running on an extension of the agenda laid out by Bush in his fi rst two terms: tax cuts for the rich, privatizing Social Security and outsourcing jobs.
McCAIN VOTES WITH BUSH

McCain Voted with the Bush Administration 89 Percent of the Time. Since President Bush took office, McCain has supported Bush’s positions 89 percent of the time. McCain’s support of Bush’s policies reached as high as 95 percent in 2007. [Congressional Quarterly Voting Study, 110th Congress]
SHARES BUSH’S ROSY VIEW OF THE ECONOMY

Bush: Economy Is Inherently Strong. “I believe we can find common ground to get something done that’s big enough, effective enough so that an economy that is inherently strong gets a boost to make sure that this uncertainty doesn’t translate into more economic woes for our workers and small business people,” Bush said in the Cabinet Room. [Associated Press, 1/23/08]
McCain: Underpinnings of Economy are Strong. “I still believe our fundamental underpinnings of our economy are strong, but it’s obvious that we are facing challenges which will require actions such as the Federal Reserve took today.” [“Lou Dobbs Tonight,” CNN, 1/22/08]

McCain Says Economy Is Strong (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/23/mccain-economy-strong/) (Video)
WANTS TO MAKE BUSH’S TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY PERMANENT

Bush: Make Tax Cuts Permanent. During his weekly radio address, Bush said, “To keep our economy growing, we need to ensure that you keep more of what you earn, and Congress needs to make the tax cuts permanent.” [Presidential Weekly Radio Address, 1/7/06]
McCain: Make Bush Tax Cuts Permanent. “I think it’s very important that we make the Bush tax cuts permanent. I voted to make them permanent twice already.… And if we don’t make the tax cuts permanent, then they will experience what amounts to a tax increase.” [Republican Presidential Debate, MSNBC, 1/24/08]

McCain Voted for Tax Cuts for the Wealthiest Americans at the Expense of Working Families. McCain voted for a $60 billion tax cut bill benefiting families with incomes $100,000 or higher. The tax cuts would follow equally drastic cuts in spending on programs vital to working families. [S. 2020, Vote #26, 11/18/05]

McCain Waffled on Tax Cuts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F1IuoR-o24). (Video)
McCAIN WANTS TO PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY

Bush: Fix Social Security Through Private Accounts. “As we fix Social Security, we also have the responsibility to make the system a better deal for younger workers, and the best way to reach that goal is through voluntary personal retirement accounts.” [President Bush’s State of the Union Address, 1/28/08]
McCain: Only Solution to Fix Social Security Is Private Accounts. “There is only one solution if Social Security commitments are to be honored without breaking the backs of the next generation: bold reform— genuine reform—that allows workers to invest some of their Social Security savings, privately, in higher-yielding accounts.” [Cato Institute]

McCain Voted for Bush’s Social Security Privatization Plan. In 2006, McCain voted for the Social Security Reserve Fund. The GOP proposal would shift Social Security’s annual surpluses into a reserve account that will be converted into risky private accounts. [SCR 83, Vote# 68, 3/16/06]
McCAIN SUPPORTS BUSH ON PRIVATIZING AND OUTSOURCING JOBS
Bush: Outsourcing Makes Sense. In 2004, the president’s economic report to Congress said, “When a good or service is produced more cheaply abroad, it makes more sense to import it than to make or provide it domestically.”
McCain: Global Economy Results in Outsourcing. “I’m not going to bring back a lot of these jobs. I can’t because with a global economy they’re headed the other way,” McCain said. [[I]Technology Daily, 12/4/07]

McCain Supported Bush Administration’s Plan to Privatize and Outsource Federal Jobs. McCain voted to support Bush’s efforts to privatize federal jobs. The Bush administration has led a major effort to outsource and privatize hundreds of thousands of federal jobs, including those of 350 workers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. [H.R. 5631, Vote# 234, 9/6/06]

[Play2win]

The onus is not on how McSAME is the same is as BUSH, or how he will continue to drown and smother our economy and wreck the greatest nation on Earth. That is the given. The burden of proof lies in showing how McSAME is any different than BUSH.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

...... Right now everyone sees GOP and see McCain and right away 4 more years of Bushism ......
The Dems will tie Budh to McCain like an anchor around the neck

The Dems shouldn't have to do this - McSame already did it to himself...

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/mccain%20bush%20hug%20twn.jpg

But you're right - people have short memories and sometimes repetition is the key to comprehension. ;)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Quotes

"I know he's trying to get traction by seeking to play to what he thinks is his strong suit of national security. The truth is that, in national security terms, he's largely untested and untried. He's never been responsible for policy formulation. He's never had leadership
in a crisis, or in anything larger than his own element on an aircraft carrier or (in managing) his own congressional staff. It's not clear that this is going to be the strong suit that he thinks it is."

-- Wes Clark, slapping McCain (http://rejectmccain.com/)'s arrogance, Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/gen-clark-mccain-is-untes_n_106457.html)

[Tombstone RJ]

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/mccain_bush.cfm

This is a left wing site, of course it's gonna support Obama and denounce McCain.

This is not an impartial site, and consequently, anyone who points it out and says "go here" to find out about McCain is automatically off my radar for any kind of political discourse, because your opinion is completely tainted.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'm already thinking like an independant. I voted for Obama :afro: in the primaries because I can't stand McCain and a McCain-Clinton election would have been like watching the Iran-Iraq war from the 1980s.

In fact, I'll probably vote third party or not vote at all for President. How's THAT for independence?

Decision '08: Clueless or Communist?

It sounds like your thinking for yourself, great.

[Tombstone RJ]

McCAIN & BUSH: IS THERE REALLY A DIFFERENCE? (http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/mccain_bush.cfm)

Sen. John McCain has long promoted the idea that he is a “straight-talking maverick” who challenges his party and stands up to his president. However, despite the media misrepresentation, McCain has not strayed too far from President George Bush’s line, especially on issues important to working families. McCain is not running for a term of his own; he is running on an extension of the agenda laid out by Bush in his fi rst two terms: tax cuts for the rich, privatizing Social Security and outsourcing jobs.
McCAIN VOTES WITH BUSH

McCain Voted with the Bush Administration 89 Percent of the Time. Since President Bush took office, McCain has supported Bush’s positions 89 percent of the time. McCain’s support of Bush’s policies reached as high as 95 percent in 2007. [Congressional Quarterly Voting Study, 110th Congress]
SHARES BUSH’S ROSY VIEW OF THE ECONOMY

Bush: Economy Is Inherently Strong. “I believe we can find common ground to get something done that’s big enough, effective enough so that an economy that is inherently strong gets a boost to make sure that this uncertainty doesn’t translate into more economic woes for our workers and small business people,” Bush said in the Cabinet Room. [Associated Press, 1/23/08]
McCain: Underpinnings of Economy are Strong. “I still believe our fundamental underpinnings of our economy are strong, but it’s obvious that we are facing challenges which will require actions such as the Federal Reserve took today.” [“Lou Dobbs Tonight,” CNN, 1/22/08]

McCain Says Economy Is Strong (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/23/mccain-economy-strong/) (Video)
WANTS TO MAKE BUSH’S TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY PERMANENT

Bush: Make Tax Cuts Permanent. During his weekly radio address, Bush said, “To keep our economy growing, we need to ensure that you keep more of what you earn, and Congress needs to make the tax cuts permanent.” [Presidential Weekly Radio Address, 1/7/06]
McCain: Make Bush Tax Cuts Permanent. “I think it’s very important that we make the Bush tax cuts permanent. I voted to make them permanent twice already.… And if we don’t make the tax cuts permanent, then they will experience what amounts to a tax increase.” [Republican Presidential Debate, MSNBC, 1/24/08]

McCain Voted for Tax Cuts for the Wealthiest Americans at the Expense of Working Families. McCain voted for a $60 billion tax cut bill benefiting families with incomes $100,000 or higher. The tax cuts would follow equally drastic cuts in spending on programs vital to working families. [S. 2020, Vote #26, 11/18/05]

McCain Waffled on Tax Cuts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F1IuoR-o24). (Video)
McCAIN WANTS TO PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY

Bush: Fix Social Security Through Private Accounts. “As we fix Social Security, we also have the responsibility to make the system a better deal for younger workers, and the best way to reach that goal is through voluntary personal retirement accounts.” [President Bush’s State of the Union Address, 1/28/08]
McCain: Only Solution to Fix Social Security Is Private Accounts. “There is only one solution if Social Security commitments are to be honored without breaking the backs of the next generation: bold reform— genuine reform—that allows workers to invest some of their Social Security savings, privately, in higher-yielding accounts.” [Cato Institute]

McCain Voted for Bush’s Social Security Privatization Plan. In 2006, McCain voted for the Social Security Reserve Fund. The GOP proposal would shift Social Security’s annual surpluses into a reserve account that will be converted into risky private accounts. [SCR 83, Vote# 68, 3/16/06]
McCAIN SUPPORTS BUSH ON PRIVATIZING AND OUTSOURCING JOBS
Bush: Outsourcing Makes Sense. In 2004, the president’s economic report to Congress said, “When a good or service is produced more cheaply abroad, it makes more sense to import it than to make or provide it domestically.”
McCain: Global Economy Results in Outsourcing. “I’m not going to bring back a lot of these jobs. I can’t because with a global economy they’re headed the other way,” McCain said. [[I]Technology Daily, 12/4/07]

McCain Supported Bush Administration’s Plan to Privatize and Outsource Federal Jobs. McCain voted to support Bush’s efforts to privatize federal jobs. The Bush administration has led a major effort to outsource and privatize hundreds of thousands of federal jobs, including those of 350 workers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. [H.R. 5631, Vote# 234, 9/6/06]


Nice try Beer.

Your information is coming from left wing sources. It's tainted all the way around.

Listen, I've said over and over and over that McCain is gonna be crucified by the left and the right because he's not Liberal enough and he's not conservative enough.

You are the perfect example of a person who'd rather go to a Left wing site and get your opinion, rather than going to the site I provided that lets you see his voting record, and the bills he was voting on.

Nah, that's too much work for you, isn't it.

It's all pretty basicic left wing propoganda that is preach doom and gloom. Look at some of McCains quotes above and just because he's not doom and gloom, doesn't mean he doesn't see the big picture.

[Tombstone RJ]

The Dems shouldn't have to do this - McSame already did it to himself...

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/mccain%20bush%20hug%20twn.jpg

But you're right - people have short memories and sometimes repetition is the key to comprehension. ;)

Again, the left (you) want to destroy McCain because he's had to make concessions to the GOP. He's hugging the president, big deal. It was a photo opportunity for the GOP to show how united it is.

Again, he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

[Tombstone RJ]

Quotes

"I know he's trying to get traction by seeking to play to what he thinks is his strong suit of national security. The truth is that, in national security terms, he's largely untested and untried. He's never been responsible for policy formulation. He's never had leadership
in a crisis, or in anything larger than his own element on an aircraft carrier or (in managing) his own congressional staff. It's not clear that this is going to be the strong suit that he thinks it is."

-- Wes Clark, slapping McCain (http://rejectmccain.com/)'s arrogance, Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/gen-clark-mccain-is-untes_n_106457.html)

I'll take McCain any day of the week and twice on Sundays over Obama's ability to lead this country when it comes to National Security

Nice try.

[Rigs11]

This is a left wing site, of course it's gonna support Obama and denounce McCain.

This is not an impartial site, and consequently, anyone who points it out and says "go here" to find out about McCain is automatically off my radar for any kind of political discourse, because your opinion is completely tainted.

If you don't like our left wing sources then why don't you come with some of your own that discredit them?Scared at what you will find?

[Rigs11]

Here tomstone have some fun.

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270

[Kaylore]

McCain is another Neo-con. The only thing he is good on is pork.

****By the way I didn't find the Ad that impressive. I don't support McCain, but I don't think that's what will do him in. I think his estranging of the right wing vote will kill him and the apathy in the red states will swing the tide over to O'Bama. If you can't convince your own party you should be President, why should anyone else believe you?

[Taco John]

Because McCain has proven time and time again that he can work with Democrats.


To get exactly what accomplished?

[gunns]

Because McCain has proven time and time again that he can work with Democrats.

I'd say it's more at one time he showed he could. It must have been at the time he decided to run for President and needed the backing of the GOP that he started going with the mainline with Bush. I liked McCain at one point because he seemed to speak his mind and not tow the line as so many other politicians. He stopped that a long time ago and has cut his throat doing it.

[gunns]

I'll take McCain any day of the week and twice on Sundays over Obama's ability to lead this country when it comes to National Security

Nice try.


Well, to say the least, I'm a little tired of them using my son for supposed National Security. Has nada to do with National Security, yet he supports it. Tells me he also doesn't have a clue about National Security.

[Odysseus]

I think it's a pretty week ad. He's saying he's agreed more with Bush than he has not on stuff like foreign policy.

Big deal. He's also pissed the GOP off enough for them to blacklist him.

Not just "Bush" the entire ****ing GOP. It's the GOP political machine that he's been at odds with.

It's a political ad meant to twist things around. It's been edited. Cut and paste crap.

Again, he's walked the hardest line on Capital Hill and he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. The Left is gonna say he's another Bush, the Right is gonna say he's not conservative enough.

O.K. What is he? No flames or games. I am curious.

McCain says that Iraq is perfectly safe. I would love to talk to you about four hours ago.

[gunns]

I think it's a pretty week ad. He's saying he's agreed more with Bush than he has not on stuff like foreign policy.

Big deal. He's also pissed the GOP off enough for them to blacklist him.

Not just "Bush" the entire ****ing GOP. It's the GOP political machine that he's been at odds with.

It's a political ad meant to twist things around. It's been edited. Cut and paste crap.

Again, he's walked the hardest line on Capital Hill and he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. The Left is gonna say he's another Bush, the Right is gonna say he's not conservative enough.

It is a big deal. People are looking at the election this year as a way of getting rid of Bush and what he's done to this country. Most of us know we are voting for yet another politician but we are also trying to vote for the one furthest from Bush's ideals.

McCain says that Iraq is perfectly safe. I would love to talk to you about four hours ago.

THANK YOU Quiettiger!

[Drek]

McCain used to be a reasonable moderate with republican leanings. But after losing the '00 nomination to Bush he started to change his tune too much.

I was a big fan but now he's spent the last few years schilling to the extreme conservatives and Bush, and thinks he can run a shell game, telling the liberals and moderates that he's still the same McCain form '00 while holding on to conservatives with his recent history of strong Bush support.

He's exposed himself so egregiously to the same kind of attack that sunk Kerry that its pretty hilarious how easily the Dems can run nearly the same attacking campaign with little effort. Better yet, they've got the majority of media favor now as well so they can sit back and let the media level hard line attacks while they play nice and talk policy.

I don't see how Obama can't win. Short of people who are deluding themselves into thinking this is 1950 where the nuclear family is in tact, the economy is doing just fine, and everyone's idea of morality is what you read out of a book written by guys dead over 2000 years ago, everyone else has come around to face the problems and paradigm shift our country needs to address if we'll see anything but a widening economic divide in our lifetime.

[BroncoBuff]

McCain used to be a reasonable moderate with republican leanings. But after losing the '00 nomination to Bush he started to change his tune too much.

I was a big fan but now he's spent the last few years schilling to the extreme conservatives and Bush, and thinks he can run a shell game, telling the liberals and moderates that he's still the same McCain form '00 while holding on to conservatives with his recent history of strong Bush support.

He's exposed himself so egregiously to the same kind of attack that sunk Kerry that its pretty hilarious how easily the Dems can run nearly the same attacking campaign with little effort. Better yet, they've got the majority of media favor now as well so they can sit back and let the media level hard line attacks while they play nice and talk policy.

I don't see how Obama can't win. Short of people who are deluding themselves into thinking this is 1950 where the nuclear family is in tact, the economy is doing just fine, and everyone's idea of morality is what you read out of a book written by guys dead over 2000 years ago, everyone else has come around to face the problems and paradigm shift our country needs to address if we'll see anything but a widening economic divide in our lifetime.
I agree with you despite your anti-Ben Hamilton agenda.

Khan is right that McCain would be great at cutting pork (that might be why he's so unpopular in the Senate), but he's not a "neo-con" per se ... the neo-cons are a discernable species, and hes not a member. He does support their wars though ... and that's the real scary part: McCain is a warmonger, no two ways about it. I recall in the 2000 primaries reading an LA Times piece by Robin Wright that detailed how McCain had enthusiastically supported every U.S military involvement since he was first elected to the House, and had advocating other military actions as well. The piece was not an attack piece actually, but in light of 9/11 and Iraq, and his support for Iraq and advocacy for attacking Iran, that alone should disqualify him in the minds of most voters.

[Kaylore]

I agree with you despite your anti-Ben Hamilton agenda.

Khan is right that McCain would be great at cutting pork (that might be why he's so unpopular in the Senate), but he's not a "neo-con" per se ... the neo-cons are a discernable species, and hes not a member. He does support their wars though ... and that's the real scary part: McCain is a warmonger, no two ways about it. I recall in the 2000 primaries reading an LA Times piece by Robin Wright that detailed how McCain had enthusiastically supported every U.S military involvement since he was first elected to the House, and had advocating other military actions as well. The piece was not an attack piece actually, but in light of 9/11 and Iraq, and his support for Iraq and advocacy for attacking Iran, that alone should disqualify him in the minds of most voters.
That's the defining attribute of Neo-cons: Aggressive foreign intervention to protect American interests. He's also for big government. I'm not sure what "isn't" neo-con about him. Bush grew government more in four years than Clinton did in eight. They are almost the same person except McCain has a bad temper and wants to be more "green" in all the wrong ways. They're both Neo-cons.

[Tombstone RJ]

That's the defining attribute of Neo-cons: Aggressive foreign intervention to protect American interests. He's also for big government. I'm not sure what "isn't" neo-con about him. Bush grew government more in four years than Clinton did in eight. They are almost the same person except McCain has a bad temper and wants to be more "green" in all the wrong ways. They're both Neo-cons.

I can't stand Bush, but in his defense, he had to grow the gov because of 9/11. Things like the Department of Homeland Security and such are a direct result of 9/11.

[BroncoBuff]

I won't argue the labels with you .... but McCain is in my view a dangerous warmonger.


LANDSLIDE COMING!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I can't stand Bush, but in his defense, he had to grow the gov because of 9/11. Things like the Department of Homeland Security and such are a direct result of 9/11.BS, Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9-11. Also, his Medicare Fraud Program is costing hundreds of billions of dollars a year.

[Tombstone RJ]

BS, Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9-11. Also, his Medicare Fraud Program is costing hundreds of billions of dollars a year.

I never said I liked Bush, so, what's your point again?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I never said I liked Bush, so, what's your point again?What, did you forget what you posted? Go back and read it, read my reply, then try and figure it out?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I never said I liked Bush, so, what's your point again?

You didn't vote for him?

Be honest.

[Tombstone RJ]

What, did you forget what you posted? Go back and read it, read my reply, then try and figure it out?

Ok, here goes: the post I was responding to said that Bush has grown the federal government more in 4 years than what the Clinton administration had done in 8 years. I simply pointed out that much of that had to do with the terrorist attack, and the establishment of new federal agencies like the Department of Homeland Security, which did not exist before 9/11. Then you chimed in and said "BS, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11...."

Yah, I know, I was just pointing out the fact that the terrorist attacks gave Bush the capabilities to grow the fed. gov. It was a reaction to an attack.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/mccain-hybrid.jpg
</center>

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Ok, here goes: the post I was responding to said that Bush has grown the federal government more in 4 years than what the Clinton administration had done in 8 years. I simply pointed out that much of that had to do with the terrorist attack, and the establishment of new federal agencies like the Department of Homeland Security, which did not exist before 9/11. Then you chimed in and said "BS, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11...."

Yah, I know, I was just pointing out the fact that the terrorist attacks gave Bush the capabilities to grow the fed. gov. It was a reaction to an attack.Well, when stated "he had to grow the government because of 9-11" it sounded like you were defending his out of control spending (on credit of course).

[Tombstone RJ]

You didn't vote for him?

Be honest.

Ok, I'm gonna be honest on how I've voted since I was in college. I voted for Perot (mistake, I know, but again, I'm so hate the GOP and the Dems, that I felt Perot was a good option), the I voted for Clinton during his second term, because I thought he was doing a decent job. Then in 2000, I voted for the Libertarian candidate, and I can't remember who that was, but I wanted McCain bad, and the GOP proped up Bush, which I knew was a big, big mistake.

Then, in 04, gulp, I admit I did vote for Bush, but only because we were/are in the middle of a war, and I did not think that changing presidents in the middle of a war, was a good idea.

Now, you can call me all the names you want, but if you look at my voting history, I've voted for a third party twice, the democratic party once, and the republican party once.

Both the Democratic and Republican leaders I voted for let me down tremendously.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'll take McCain any day of the week and twice on Sundays over Obama's ability to lead this country when it comes to National Security
Based on what?

[Tombstone RJ]

Based on what?

His age, 71, which I believe is an asset when it comes to seeing the bigger picture and truly wanting to better this country. He's been around a long time, and he has that experience under his belt to help him when times get tough.

I guess I have respect for my elders.

Also, I believe his 5 years as a POW gives him a truly unique aspect on life. Anyone who can survive that, and come out a sane, functioning adult (no jokes here please people) deserves my respect. And, his long tenure in the Senate, which can be debated ad nauseum here, but he does have alot of political experience on capital hill.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

His age, 71, which I believe is an asset when it comes to seeing the bigger picture and truly wanting to better this country. He's been around a long time, and he has that experience under his belt to help him when times get tough.

I guess I have respect for my elders.

Also, I believe his 5 years as a POW gives him a truly unique aspect on life. Anyone who can survive that, and come out a sane, functioning adult (no jokes here please people) deserves my respect. And, his long tenure in the Senate, which can be debated ad nauseum here, but he does have alot of political experience on capital hill.Yeah, sounds like maybe a little too long judging by all the 180s he's doing, he can't make up his mind about anything lately.

[TailgateNut]

His age, 71, which I believe is an asset when it comes to seeing the bigger picture and truly wanting to better this country. He's been around a long time, and he has that experience under his belt to help him when times get tough.

I guess I have respect for my elders.

Also, I believe his 5 years as a POW gives him a truly unique aspect on life. Anyone who can survive that, and come out a sane, functioning adult (no jokes here please people) deserves my respect. And, his long tenure in the Senate, which can be debated ad nauseum here, but he does have alot of political experience on capital hill.


Allow me to address a few of your misconceptions about the "positives" you listed.

1. I'd prefer to not have a "dinosaur" in the driving seat of our country. We need to revise our current policies, and he seems like the old dog who just can't change his ways.

2. The POW aspect is what scares me more than anything about the ol' geezer. I've met and still talk to a few guys who were not only in Vietnam, but some were incarcerated (POW's), and I wouldn't want the majority of them in control of the power the office of president. I respect them, and in fact all vets for their service, but those who have seen the ugly side of war are inevitably changed forever.
I think more insight into McCain's mental stability is needed to convince us that he should even be allowed to run for the presidency.
Jingle some keys and watch his reaction.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

His age, 71, which I believe is an asset when it comes to seeing the bigger picture and truly wanting to better this country. He's been around a long time, and he has that experience under his belt to help him when times get tough.

I guess I have respect for my elders.

Older doesn't necessarily = wiser.

Look past the filial piety impulse.

[Tombstone RJ]

Older doesn't necessarily = wiser.

Look past the filial piety impulse.

Ok, thanks for the advice, Dad.:sunshine:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ok, thanks for the advice, Dad.:sunshine:

Sure thing, son.

On the real, am I wrong?

Bush is your elder, but the man couldn't spell "cat" if you spotted him the 'c' and the 't.'

When asked to find Italy on a map, he asked "isn't that the one that looks like a boot?"

The guy can't even eat a pretzel without adult supervison, for cryin' out loud!

I rest my case. :wave:

[Tombstone RJ]

Sure thing, son.

On the real, am I wrong?

Bush is your elder, but the man couldn't spell "cat" if you spotted him the 'c' and the 't.'

When asked to find Italy on a map, he asked "isn't that the one that looks like a boot?"

The guy can't even eat a pretzel without adult supervison, for cryin' out loud!

I rest my case. :wave:

No, your not wrong to have a great disdain for Bush, he is a moron. But I don't think that hate should spew over onto anyone who doesn't support Obama.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No, your not wrong to have a great disdain for Bush, he is a moron. But I don't think that hate should spew over onto anyone who doesn't support Obama.

I just used Bush as an example to prove my point, viz., that older does not necessarily = wiser (and a man doesn't automatically deserve your respect simply because he is your elder.)

[Drek]

His age, 71, which I believe is an asset when it comes to seeing the bigger picture and truly wanting to better this country. He's been around a long time, and he has that experience under his belt to help him when times get tough.

I guess I have respect for my elders.

Also, I believe his 5 years as a POW gives him a truly unique aspect on life. Anyone who can survive that, and come out a sane, functioning adult (no jokes here please people) deserves my respect. And, his long tenure in the Senate, which can be debated ad nauseum here, but he does have alot of political experience on capital hill.

I'm sorry but I find that to be a weak argument as to why McCain is better on national security.

Is McCain older? Sure. Does he have military experience over Obama? Yes. But both work against him.

He sees foreign relations in the same terms as his father and grandfather, both admirals in the U.S. Navy and two men who's service to this country I'd never question. But this isn't their day anymore. We no longer fight wars across a tangible line of battle and the enemies aren't black and white.

McCain still sees it that way though and will set this country in opposition to every nation and group that is tied to the real enemies. That is exactly the mindset that caused the Vietnam war. We failed Vietnam following WWII and when the USSR was willing to step in to that void we attacked. Not the USSR mind you, but the Vietnamese. Probably the single biggest ally we had in the pacific front of WWII, gone because we were too busy molly coddling the french to take care of the allies who actually helped us.

With McCain as president every nation ran by anyone other than judaeo-christian democracies/representative republics (read: capitalists) will be a potential enemy simply on those grounds.

We can be strong on national security without being warmongers or bigots. We are the strongest country on the face of this planet and that alone has made us the last choice of terrorism in the industrial world. Nearly every country in Europe has been attacked more than us. That isn't Bush's policies at work because our own intelligence shows that he's only increased our potentiality for attack. Its the power that we hold as a nation and the fact that up until recently our neighbors to the north and south were fierce, unquestioned allies. You didn't step foot on this continent without someone who put America's interest fairly high on their priorities meeting you (unless it was on a door floating over from Cuba).

We need to rebuild and expand that level of international camaraderie, not continue to be the rich oppressors that we now look like throughout the middle east.

Obama will be able to restore our foreign relations and let our military power reside where it belongs, at home protecting this soil, not guarding sand dunes thousands of miles away. Our neighbors to the north and south as well as our European allies will come back to us and we'll be able to develop a true international intelligence network that identifies and deals with terrorists before their ambitions reach anything so grand as the 9/11 attacks. We can't do that alone, the world is too big for one nation to police at that level. United with countries who have long been our allies though we can begin to police the world on that level, and it only gets easier as we welcome other maturing countries (such as India and Brazil) into the fold.