Your 08 Prediction

[JCMElway]

OK, we've had the "Who do you want to win" thread, now here is the prediction.

Who is the President-Elect for 08?

[Spider]

Obama

[Crushaholic]

Obama's lack of campaign experience is going to doom him. The 2008 election goes to the old fossil...

[JCMElway]

Crush, I think you're wrong. Obama at times during this campaign will make McCain look silly and foolish.

I think Obama walks away with this by picking up the following states that were carried by Bush in '04: Colorado, Iowa, Missouri, New Mexico, Ohio, and Virginia. He may even put Mississippi, South Carolina and North Carolina in play if he chooses Jim Webb as his VP.

[Rohirrim]

I expect a wholesale repudiation of conservative philosophy by the American people. The conservatives have had their chance. For the last thirty years, since Reagan, in every nook and cranny of our government, their hand has left its imprint. The result has been a dismal failure. Trickle down is dead. Unregulated markets are a disaster. The so-called morality and "values" of the GOP have been obliterated by a stance too wide, and numerous other human failings. The concept of imposing morality through government is proved idiotic.

One dollar of every four you pay for a gallon of gas is the result of an unregulated oil market and its out of control speculation and trading designed for no other purpose than to artificially jack up the price. 73,000 foreclosures are the result of unregulated speculation in real estate financing. Over four thousand Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died for a bankrupt foreign policy full of arrogance, hubris, ignorance and an almost treasonous lack of respect for the Constitution of the United States.

The American people will finally raise their heads and see through all the bloated, high-flown, self-serving rhetoric of the conservatives. They will realize that they have been sold a ****load of snake oil. The only improvement the conservative revolution has made to the United States has been an improvement to the pocketbooks of the top one percent of Americans, to the detriment of the rest of us. They will realize that men like Cheney, who manipulated this country into a war that has perhaps irreparably damaged our country, but filled his pockets (and the pockets of his cronies) with wealth, epitomizes conservative reality.

For the first time in thirty years, the American people will take a good, hard look around them and finally say to themselves, "Greed is not good."

If Obama is smart enough to just ride the wave and not do anything overtly stupid, he should be able to ride it like a tsunami right into the WH.

[Tombstone RJ]

OK, we've had the "Who do you want to win" thread, now here is the prediction.

Who is the President-Elect for 08?

IMO, I'd really like to know who the VPs are gonna be for both candidates before I make a prediction. With that said, there's still a long time to go before the election and lot's of opportunities for either candidate to put the proverbial foot-in-the-mouth.

[Tombstone RJ]

I expect a wholesale repudiation of conservative philosophy by the American people. The conservatives have had their chance. For the last thirty years, since Reagan, in every nook and cranny of our government, their hand has left its imprint. The result has been a dismal failure. Trickle down is dead. Unregulated markets are a disaster. The so-called morality and "values" of the GOP have been obliterated by a stance too wide, and numerous other human failings. The concept of imposing morality through government is proved idiotic.

One dollar of every four you pay for a gallon of gas is the result of an unregulated oil market and its out of control speculation and trading designed for no other purpose than to artificially jack up the price. 73,000 foreclosures are the result of unregulated speculation in real estate financing. Over four thousand Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died for a bankrupt foreign policy full of arrogance, hubris, ignorance and an almost treasonous lack of respect for the Constitution of the United States.

The American people will finally raise their heads and see through all the bloated, high-flown, self-serving rhetoric of the conservatives. They will realize that they have been sold a ****load of snake oil. The only improvement the conservative revolution has made to the United States has been an improvement to the pocketbooks of the top one percent of Americans, to the detriment of the rest of us. They will realize that men like Cheney, who manipulated this country into a war that has perhaps irreparably damaged our country, but filled his pockets (and the pockets of his cronies) with wealth, epitomizes conservative reality.

For the first time in thirty years, the American people will take a good, hard look around them and finally say to themselves, "Greed is not good."

If Obama is smart enough to just ride the wave and not do anything overtly stupid, he should be able to ride it like a tsunami right into the WH.

My contentions with you post is that Clinton had 8 years in the WH too, and nothing much changed in the good ole US aside from the collapse of all the Dot.coms that sprouted up during his tenure. However, the very system which you are now railing against did great under the Clinton administration.

Also, the free market economy, by it's very nature is a beast of ups and downs, Bulls and Bears. To say that the last 28 years of economic growth has been a complete failure is a gross exageration. Problems, yes (health care), but not a "dismal failure."

With that said I am 100% with you on your utter disdain for the Bush platform of the last 8 years. Bush is, was, and always will be the worst kind of politician in that he's too stupid to understand how foreign policy works and how a free market economy should work, and he's too greedy to really give a crap about the middle class.

[Spider]

My contentions with you post is that Clinton had 8 years in the WH too, and nothing much changed in the good ole US aside from the collapse of all the Dot.coms that sprouted up during his tenure. However, the very system which you are now railing against did great under the Clinton administration.

Also, the free market economy, by it's very nature is a beast of ups and downs, Bulls and Bears. To say that the last 28 years of economic growth has been a complete failure is a gross exageration. Problems, yes (health care), but not a "dismal failure."

With that said I am 100% with you on your utter disdain for the Bush platform of the last 8 years. Bush is, was, and always will be the worst kind of politician in that he's too stupid to understand how foreign policy works and how a free market economy should work, and he's too greedy to really give a crap about the middle class.

8 years under Clinton was pretty damn good for the working man , could have been better , but wasnt that bad , I remember turning 5 K miles a week and making well over 4 K per week after Fuel , repairs etc ...... Last week I turned in 3,600 made a little over 1,800 , 1,106.25 after taxes .......

[TexanBob]

As I've said before, if the Dems can't win this time around something is really wrong with them.

They've successfully blamed Republicans for
a) an unpopular war - never mind the success of it.
b) a bad economy - never mind that it really tanked in the last two years when Congress was run by Democrats.

And history is on their side. Since WWII, the White House changes parties after 4-8 years of Democrat rule or after 8-12 years of Republican rule. Also, since WWII, the public turns to a handsome young Democrat promising "hope" and "change" every 16 years (Kennedy in '60, Carter in '76, Clinton in '92, Obama in '08). Plus, in the Chinese calendar, 2008 is the Year Of The Rat.

So, all the planets are aligned for Obama. If he screws this up, it will be a major, major lost opportunity for the Democrats. They'll never have a better chance to return to the unchallenged rule they had in the 1960s and under Jimmy Carter.

[BroncoBuff]

TexanBob, it's interesting you think Jimmy Carter is ... handsome.

[Hogan11]

McCain....the 527's will ramp up and, sorry to say, the vast majority of Americans deep down love the "fighting spirit" of attack and smear politics despite claims to the contrary.

[spdirty]

As I've said before, if the Dems can't win this time around something is really wrong with them.

They've successfully blamed Republicans for
a) an unpopular war - never mind the success of it.
b) a bad economy - never mind that it really tanked in the last two years when Congress was run by Democrats.

And history is on their side. Since WWII, the White House changes parties after 4-8 years of Democrat rule or after 8-12 years of Republican rule. Also, since WWII, the public turns to a handsome young Democrat promising "hope" and "change" every 16 years (Kennedy in '60, Carter in '76, Clinton in '92, Obama in '08). Plus, in the Chinese calendar, 2008 is the Year Of The Rat.

So, all the planets are aligned for Obama. If he screws this up, it will be a major, major lost opportunity for the Democrats. They'll never have a better chance to return to the unchallenged rule they had in the 1960s and under Jimmy Carter.

Your forgetting that the Republicans are also running the weakest candidate since Ford.

[spdirty]

McCain....the 527's will ramp up and, sorry to say, the vast majority of Americans deep down love the "fighting spirit" of attack and smear politics despite claims to the contrary.

So your saying Obama's handlers, surrogates, supporters, and the big money that is behind him won't go after McCain?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Hogan11]

So your saying Obama's handlers, surrogates, supporters, and the big money that is behind him won't go after McCain?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Oh sure they will....but , as the past couple of elections have shown us, the supporters of the GOP are far better and much more effective at "bringing the hate" and making it work with the public than those of the DNC.

I really don't think that point can be argued

[Play2win]

Oh sure they will....but , as the past couple of elections have shown us, the supporters of the GOP are far better and much more effective at "bringing the hate" and making it work with the public than those of the DNC.

I really don't think that point can be argued

Is there really a difference between Reality TV and Presidential Campaign Ads?

[TexanBob]

TexanBob, it's interesting you think Jimmy Carter is ... handsome.

By 1976 standards...

http://www.cah.utexas.edu/photojournalism/graphics/presidents/carter/bigpics/Carter_01.jpg

A young outsider promising change. With Kennedy, it was generational change. With Carter, it was moral change. With Clinton, it was get-rid-of-Bush change. With Obama, it appears to be more get-rid-of-Bush change.

[TexanBob]

Oh sure they will....but , as the past couple of elections have shown us, the supporters of the GOP are far better and much more effective at "bringing the hate" and making it work with the public than those of the DNC.

I really don't think that point can be argued

OMG! How can you exist around here and not see the 24/7 hate campaign against Bush that has been in full campaign mode ever since January, 2001? Republicans are rank amatuers when it comes to hate compared to Democrats. Their whole message is hate and, as you can see on this board, a lot of small minds have drank the Kool-Aid.

That's why the Obama/Clinton campaign was fun for an outsider to watch because you got to see Democrats treating *each other* the way they treat Republicans - with non-stop personal attacks, bile, smear campaigns, race-baiting, sexism, dirty innuendos, vote fraud, disenfranchisement and just full-out rage. You got to see the media expose themselves yet again for the partisan whores that they are. It was a great civics lesson for anyone that was paying attention.

[TexanBob]

Your forgetting that the Republicans are also running the weakest candidate since Ford.

I would have said Dole but...point taken.

[Tombstone RJ]

As I've said before, if the Dems can't win this time around something is really wrong with them.

They've successfully blamed Republicans for
a) an unpopular war - never mind the success of it.
b) a bad economy - never mind that it really tanked in the last two years when Congress was run by Democrats.

And history is on their side. Since WWII, the White House changes parties after 4-8 years of Democrat rule or after 8-12 years of Republican rule. Also, since WWII, the public turns to a handsome young Democrat promising "hope" and "change" every 16 years (Kennedy in '60, Carter in '76, Clinton in '92, Obama in '08). Plus, in the Chinese calendar, 2008 is the Year Of The Rat.

So, all the planets are aligned for Obama. If he screws this up, it will be a major, major lost opportunity for the Democrats. They'll never have a better chance to return to the unchallenged rule they had in the 1960s and under Jimmy Carter.

Those are some telling stats. My only beef with your post is that what got Clinton elected was his centrist platform, that is, he was not a screaming liberal, he was way more moderate.

[Tombstone RJ]

OMG! How can you exist around here and not see the 24/7 hate campaign against Bush that has been in full campaign mode ever since January, 2001? Republicans are rank amatuers when it comes to hate compared to Democrats. Their whole message is hate and, as you can see on this board, a lot of small minds have drank the Kool-Aid.

That's why the Obama/Clinton campaign was fun for an outsider to watch because you got to see Democrats treating *each other* the way they treat Republicans - with non-stop personal attacks, bile, smear campaigns, race-baiting, sexism, dirty innuendos, vote fraud, disenfranchisement and just full-out rage. You got to see the media expose themselves yet again for the partisan whores that they are. It was a great civics lesson for anyone that was paying attention.

I'm an independent, I refuse to join either party because both are really messed up, so let me just get that out there for ya.

As for bashing Bush, he's kinda set himself up for the bashes. Let's face it, he sounds like Cousin Eddie everytime he opens his mouth.

Really, its the GOPs fault for putting him in the WH to begin with.

[Rohirrim]

My contentions with you post is that Clinton had 8 years in the WH too, and nothing much changed in the good ole US aside from the collapse of all the Dot.coms that sprouted up during his tenure. However, the very system which you are now railing against did great under the Clinton administration.

Also, the free market economy, by it's very nature is a beast of ups and downs, Bulls and Bears. To say that the last 28 years of economic growth has been a complete failure is a gross exageration. Problems, yes (health care), but not a "dismal failure."

With that said I am 100% with you on your utter disdain for the Bush platform of the last 8 years. Bush is, was, and always will be the worst kind of politician in that he's too stupid to understand how foreign policy works and how a free market economy should work, and he's too greedy to really give a crap about the middle class.

You should check out exactly who has benefitted from this economy for the last thirty years. Worker productivity has skyrocketed for three decades. Paychecks have remained stagnant. The American people are working harder than ever while getting less and less for their work. The top 1% has raked in the overwhelming majority of the wealth this economy has produced for decades. That's what the Reagan Revolution was all about. It's a grossly unfair playing field. That playing field has been created and maintained by the Right. To continue those policies, as McCain wants, is to continue to believe in the idiotic philosophy of trickle down economics, or as Bush Sr. referred to it (rightly) all those years ago, "voodoo economics."

I'm surprised at any American who still drinks this koolaid of broad economic growth. The American people have been getting systematically robbed by the policies of government for thirty years and they're too stupid to realize it. For thirty years, every law, every regulation, every alteration of the tax code has been specifically designed to funnel wealth to the top one percent. People need to wake up and realize a class war is under way, and they're getting their asses kicked. Hell, the American people are such suckers, they're not even fighting back. If we were French, we would freeze this rip-off economy in its tracks. We would be converging on Washington DC in the millions and locking this government down. Instead, we just go "Baaaaaaaa!"

[BroncoBuff]

Back to Predictions ... I actually think Obama in a landslide.

John McCain is ripe for mega-gaffes, and he shows little capacity to learn from his mistakes (he made the same Sunni-Shia mistake three times over about a month), or rein in his combative temper. He is one angry bastard, and I guarantee he'll go sideways at a town hall or a debate, and that'll be that.

Obama will win virtually every state that's not solid-red or Arizona.

[JCMElway]

75 to 80%, that's about what I expected.

[spdirty]

Those are some telling stats. My only beef with your post is that what got Clinton elected was his centrist platform, that is, he was not a screaming liberal, he was way more moderate.

No. Ross Perot got Clinton elected.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

OMG! How can you exist around here and not see the 24/7 hate campaign against Bush that has been in full campaign mode ever since January, 2001? Republicans are rank amatuers when it comes to hate compared to Democrats. Their whole message is hate and, as you can see on this board, a lot of small minds have drank the Kool-Aid.

That's why the Obama/Clinton campaign was fun for an outsider to watch because you got to see Democrats treating *each other* the way they treat Republicans - with non-stop personal attacks, bile, smear campaigns, race-baiting, sexism, dirty innuendos, vote fraud, disenfranchisement and just full-out rage. You got to see the media expose themselves yet again for the partisan whores that they are. It was a great civics lesson for anyone that was paying attention.How stupid is this statement? Republicans absolutely know more about hate (in the guise of religion and their core beliefs) than any group in history of American politics, bar none.

[W*GS]

If we were French, we would freeze this rip-off economy in its tracks. We would be converging on Washington DC in the millions and locking this government down. Instead, we just go "Baaaaaaaa!"

Would you trade the American economy for France's?

[Tombstone RJ]

You should check out exactly who has benefitted from this economy for the last thirty years. Worker productivity has skyrocketed for three decades. Paychecks have remained stagnant. The American people are working harder than ever while getting less and less for their work. The top 1% has raked in the overwhelming majority of the wealth this economy has produced for decades. That's what the Reagan Revolution was all about. It's a grossly unfair playing field. That playing field has been created and maintained by the Right. To continue those policies, as McCain wants, is to continue to believe in the idiotic philosophy of trickle down economics, or as Bush Sr. referred to it (rightly) all those years ago, "voodoo economics."

I'm surprised at any American who still drinks this koolaid of broad economic growth. The American people have been getting systematically robbed by the policies of government for thirty years and they're too stupid to realize it. For thirty years, every law, every regulation, every alteration of the tax code has been specifically designed to funnel wealth to the top one percent. People need to wake up and realize a class war is under way, and they're getting their asses kicked. Hell, the American people are such suckers, they're not even fighting back. If we were French, we would freeze this rip-off economy in its tracks. We would be converging on Washington DC in the millions and locking this government down. Instead, we just go "Baaaaaaaa!"

I'm not gonna deny the system has failed the middle class in alot of ways, and if that is what you are trying to say, I agree with you. However, you are making pretty sweeping generalizations that, in essence, is saying "blow everything up in order to save it!"

C'mon dude, quit looking to the French for leadership, that is just weak.

Hey, I've never said McCain is perfect, what I have said is that he has rocked the boat enough to piss off mainstream GOP pundits time and time again. Plus, he's demonstrated an ability to work across party lines. He's pissed off so many people on capital hill, I'd think most voters who hate the status quo, would be excited to vote for him, or at least listen to him.

Weather you vote for McCain or Obama or a third party candidate, the long and the short of it is that this country needs, and has needed for a long time, is a viable third party to go against the GOP and Democrats.

[Hogan11]

How stupid is this statement? Republicans absolutely know more about hate (in the guise of religion and their core beliefs) than any group in history of American politics, bar none.

It was the most idiotic statement I've seen in quite awhile.....it was like Karl Rove never existed and John Kerry won in 2004 or something. Really, there was no way to respond to that kind of stupidity, so I didn't.....it was hilarious enough just by itself.

[Rohirrim]

Would you trade the American economy for France's?

Talk about missing the point. The point is that the French still carry the revolutionary spirit. The government is afraid of the people, instead of the other way around. Wave the red, white and blue at an American and he lock steps like an automaton.

[Crushaholic]

Crush, I think you're wrong. Obama at times during this campaign will make McCain look silly and foolish.

I think Obama walks away with this by picking up the following states that were carried by Bush in '04: Colorado, Iowa, Missouri, New Mexico, Ohio, and Virginia. He may even put Mississippi, South Carolina and North Carolina in play if he chooses Jim Webb as his VP.

Maybe so. However, McCain can tout his cooperation with the Democrats on issues such as campaign finance reform to get the independent Democrats vote. If he's ALSO successful at portraying Obama as a liberal, then McCain will win. That's where his experience could shine. Clinton won because he convinced the American people his views were centrist. We'll see what happens...:thumbs:

[Hogan11]

Maybe so. However, McCain can tout his cooperation with the Democrats on issues such as campaign finance reform to get the independent Democrats vote. If he's ALSO successful at portraying Obama as a liberal, then McCain will win. That's where his experience could shine. Clinton won because he convinced the American people his views were centrist. We'll see what happens...:thumbs:

..or the 527's can just trot out Gay Marriage again

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I expect a wholesale repudiation of conservative philosophy by the American people. The conservatives have had their chance. For the last thirty years, since Reagan, in every nook and cranny of our government, their hand has left its imprint. The result has been a dismal failure. Trickle down is dead. Unregulated markets are a disaster. The so-called morality and "values" of the GOP have been obliterated by a stance too wide, and numerous other human failings. The concept of imposing morality through government is proved idiotic.

One dollar of every four you pay for a gallon of gas is the result of an unregulated oil market and its out of control speculation and trading designed for no other purpose than to artificially jack up the price. 73,000 foreclosures are the result of unregulated speculation in real estate financing. Over four thousand Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died for a bankrupt foreign policy full of arrogance, hubris, ignorance and an almost treasonous lack of respect for the Constitution of the United States.

The American people will finally raise their heads and see through all the bloated, high-flown, self-serving rhetoric of the conservatives. They will realize that they have been sold a ****load of snake oil. The only improvement the conservative revolution has made to the United States has been an improvement to the pocketbooks of the top one percent of Americans, to the detriment of the rest of us. They will realize that men like Cheney, who manipulated this country into a war that has perhaps irreparably damaged our country, but filled his pockets (and the pockets of his cronies) with wealth, epitomizes conservative reality.

For the first time in thirty years, the American people will take a good, hard look around them and finally say to themselves, "Greed is not good."

If Obama is smart enough to just ride the wave and not do anything overtly stupid, he should be able to ride it like a tsunami right into the WH.

Wow - outstanding post. :thumbsup:

Knocked it clean out of the park.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

As for predictions, I, for one, suspect it's no accident that the GOP chose a weak candidate like Gramps.

They want to ride off into the sunset with their ill-gotten spoils and leave a Democrat holding the bag so that when Bush's chickens (e.g., Iraq, the economy, etc.) come home to roost they can blame the Democrats for the whole train wreck.

They probably figure this will be a successful strategy to take back the WH and perhaps even score another trifecta in four years.

They're hoping Obama will be the second coming of Jimmy Carter.

[W*GS]

Talk about missing the point. The point is that the French still carry the revolutionary spirit. The government is afraid of the people, instead of the other way around.

I think the French government is too often unable to articulate what it believes needs to be done to make France better, and so a portion of the populace (truck drivers, students, doctors...) manages to bring the whole society to a halt until its special needs are being met.

I wouldn't call that better, or "the revolutionary spirit". That's mere special-interest group whining, and it's hurt France far more than helped. It's sorta like caving the first time your kid cries because you won't buy him a toy she wants - she learns pretty quickly that you're easily manipulated, and you've lost a lot of cred as a parent, earning lots more unpleasantness just to avoid one small bit.

I wouldn't trade France's economy, government, or anything else for ours.

[Rohirrim]

I think the French government is too often unable to articulate what it believes needs to be done to make France better, and so a portion of the populace (truck drivers, students, doctors...) manages to bring the whole society to a halt until its special needs are being met.

I wouldn't call that better, or "the revolutionary spirit". That's mere special-interest group whining, and it's hurt France far more than helped. It's sorta like caving the first time your kid cries because you won't buy him a toy she wants - she learns pretty quickly that you're easily manipulated, and you've lost a lot of cred as a parent, earning lots more unpleasantness just to avoid one small bit.

I wouldn't trade France's economy, government, or anything else for ours.

So you would continue policies that only funnel the wealth that the workers in this economy create into the pockets of the already ridiculously wealthy? And here I thought you were opposed to the concept of "spread the wealth." But I guess, like most conservatives, you only oppose it when it means the wealth goes into the pockets of those who earn it.

What the French fight for is a "quality" of life. They want to stay on the family farm and hold on to their way of life instead of allowing corporate forces to take over, hand the entire system over to agribusiness and make the farm-owners into sharecroppers. They refuse to allow developers to bulldoze their land and turn it into strip malls. They refuse to allow chain store giants to obliterate the landscape with their big box consumerism. So, they fight to maintain the coherence of their communities, like the local baker (who's family has been there for three hundred years) instead of just selling out to the faceless consumerism of unregulated capitalism which has taken American communities and turned them into vast wastelands of autos and anonymity.

What's our next step on the road to anonymous consumerism? We won't even want the big boxes or the strip malls. We'll shop at home. Online. Everything will be shipped to us. There will be no more market where we actually bump into our neighbors. There will be no more need for the community.

I don't blame the French.

[Spider]

I think the French government is too often unable to articulate what it believes needs to be done to make France better, and so a portion of the populace (truck drivers, students, doctors...) manages to bring the whole society to a halt until its special needs are being met.

I wouldn't call that better, or "the revolutionary spirit". That's mere special-interest group whining, and it's hurt France far more than helped. It's sorta like caving the first time your kid cries because you won't buy him a toy she wants - she learns pretty quickly that you're easily manipulated, and you've lost a lot of cred as a parent, earning lots more unpleasantness just to avoid one small bit.

I wouldn't trade France's economy, government, or anything else for ours.
you are a walking ****ing contradiction , you yell and scream about our government having too much power etc , then France where the people have the power , you bitch ........you are a ****ing clown that cant even keep his own point of view strait

[W*GS]

So you would continue policies that only funnel the wealth that the workers in this economy create into the pockets of the already ridiculously wealthy? And here I thought you were opposed to the concept of "spread the wealth." But I guess, like most conservatives, you only oppose it when it means the wealth goes into the pockets of those who earn it.

I'm not a conservative, asshole.

What the French fight for is a "quality" of life. They want to stay on the family farm and hold on to their way of life instead of allowing corporate forces to take over, hand the entire system over to agribusiness and make the farm-owners into sharecroppers. They refuse to allow developers to bulldoze their land and turn it into strip malls. They refuse to allow chain store giants to obliterate the landscape with their big box consumerism. So, they fight to maintain the coherence of their communities, like the local baker (who's family has been there for three hundred years) instead of just selling out to the faceless consumerism of unregulated capitalism which has taken American communities and turned them into vast wastelands of autos and anonymity.

So be like Johnny Depp and move to France.

Yes, their system protects producers at the expense of consumers. Their farmers can stay in business only with billions and billions in EU subsidy - which comes from EU taxpayers. They have lots of little mom-n-pop stores - at the expense of selection and the prices buyers pay. They've also done a lousy job assimilating their dark-skinned and Muslim immigrants - remember the riots in the poor banlieues a couple summers back?

Interestingly, almost all their elite comes from the same small set of people that have run France since the 5th Republic began in 1958.

What's our next step on the road to anonymous consumerism? We won't even want the big boxes or the strip malls. We'll shop at home. Online. Everything will be shipped to us. There will be no more market where we actually bump into our neighbors. There will be no more need for the community.

Now you're just being silly, a victim of rhetorical excess.

Communities aren't just defined by geographic proximity any more. That's not a priori good or bad, it just is.

[W*GS]

you are a walking ****ing contradiction , you yell and scream about our government having too much power etc , then France where the people have the power , you b**** ........you are a ****ing clown that cant even keep his own point of view strait

Ro had something somewhat intelligent to say; what you say above is ****.

[Rohirrim]

I'm not a conservative, a-hole.




Back to iggy for you. Come back someday when you're sober.

[Spider]

Ro had something somewhat intelligent to say; what you say above is ****.

Yeah ,yeah ,yeah you neo con

[W*GS]

Back to iggy for you. Come back someday when you're sober.

I don't drink; quit calling me names.

[Traveler]

Check the sig!

[Spider]

Check the sig!

very JFK like

[Traveler]

very JFK like

True, but a little too early for those comparisons.^5

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Icons/evmap.png (http://www.electoral-vote.com/)