Reasons why things like Unions arent bad ideas.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I have worked freelance for Fox (Newscorp) for over two years now. As a freelancer, I get no insurance, no holidays, no sick days, no perks. I'm fine with that, thats a choice I make.

Every friday before a 3 day weekend, we are dismissed early in a gesture of appreciation. I've always put a full day on my time card as told by my supervisors. So, when I did it for memorial day, I was paid as normal. Today, HR calls me and tells me that they refuse to pay me for the afternoon hours on friday since i'm not an official employee and i did not work those hours (when i was told to leave). So, in my next pay check, they are docking me three hours. Real classy. This is how corporations take care of their workers. But yeah, Unions are the problem...right.

[Rohirrim]

Meanwhile, on the radio this evening on the way home from work, one of the reporters pointed out that since Bush came into office, Big Oil has made IN PROFIT $600 billion dollars. Obviously, those corporations need to be protected from the ravages of labor.

[spdirty]

If you didn't work those 3 hoours you shouldnt get paid those 3 hours. I don't expect to get paid for signs I don't put up.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

If you didn't work those 3 hoours you shouldnt get paid those 3 hours. I don't expect to get paid for signs I don't put up.

Spare me. I was TOLD to leave by my superiors. The idea is that its a gift. I need that money more than they do. It's penny pinching off the little guy, which Newscorp has a history of. During the writers strike, they used it as an excuse to save money ...and the first thing to go? My overtime! Everyone else's salaries stayed the same other than people on my level.

It's called taking care of your own. And it's bull****. They can crap on us and we can't do a ****in thing about it. So spare me your bull****.

[spdirty]

Spare me. I was TOLD to leave by my superiors. The idea is that its a gift. I need that money more than they do. It's penny pinching off the little guy, which Newscorp has a history of. During the writers strike, they used it as an excuse to save money ...and the first thing to go? My overtime! Everyone else's salaries stayed the same other than people on my level.

It's called taking care of your own. And it's bull****. They can crap on us and we can't do a ****in thing about it. So spare me your bull****.

:Whaaaa!: Find an extra job then. Or a different one where you work in a union. Oh yeah then that extra money your making would be going to Union Dues.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

:Whaaaa!: Find an extra job then. Or a different one where you work in a union. Oh yeah then that extra money your making would be going to Union Dues.

I'd be fine with paying union dues. if i was in a union, id be much more protected in other ways. I honestly cant talk to people like you, we'll never agree and all i get is angry. You're a me first, pro big business, whats mine is mine personality and that's fine. Enjoy your life. We don't think alike, will never think alike. but save your condescending commentary for someone who cares.

[Spider]

If you didn't work those 3 hoours you shouldnt get paid those 3 hours. I don't expect to get paid for signs I don't put up.

Kinda, if they have you show up , then send you home , you still need to be reimbursed for fuel etc ....... Like Me , once we sign the confirmation sheet , if the company cant load me or delay me for over an hour , we get paid ......

[Spider]

:Whaaaa!: Find an extra job then. Or a different one where you work in a union. Oh yeah then that extra money your making would be going to Union Dues.

LOL , Union dues ..... peanuts compared to getting docked 3 hours for being sent home early

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Kinda, if they have you show up , then send you home , you still need to be reimbursed for fuel etc ....... Like Me , once we sign the confirmation sheet , if the company cant load me or delay me for over an hour , we get paid ......

Exactly!

[Spider]

If you didn't work those 3 hoours you shouldnt get paid those 3 hours. I don't expect to get paid for signs I don't put up.

But now if he asked for those 3 hours off ....... then no it is on him ........

[W*GS]

Why would a socialist be freelancing for Fox?

Work somewhere else.

[spdirty]

I'd be fine with paying union dues. if i was in a union, id be much more protected in other ways. I honestly cant talk to people like you, we'll never agree and all i get is angry. You're a me first, pro big business, whats mine is mine personality and that's fine. Enjoy your life. We don't think alike, will never think alike. but save your condescending commentary for someone who cares.

I use to think like you when I was 16-18 years old.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

:Whaaaa!: Find an extra job then. Or a different one where you work in a union. Oh yeah then that extra money your making would be going to Union Dues.Lets see, when I'm working out of the union hall, I get $30 an hour on check, $2 an hour vacation, $2 an hour annuity, $45 to $100 a day subsistence, $7 an hour company paid into pension, $9 an hour company paid into health and welfare, OT anything after 8hrs, time and a half Saturdays, double time on Sundays and holidays, strictest and most enforced safety regulations in the country. This is what we get for paying our union dues.

Saying all that, we are compensated for our labor fairly, certainly no more than that (our work is some of the most dangerous in the world).

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Why would a socialist be freelancing for Fox?

Work somewhere else.

HAHA point taken. But hey, i gotta pay the bills, ya know? Sometimes ya gotta tuck your pride away. It's just one of my incomes thankfully, but a needed one. Strangely enough, Fox has been very progressive on the environment front. All our paper is recycled, incentives for hybrids, they push push push using one water cooler instead of bottles (which i do despite the fact we found one with roaches in it). Rupert's politics are ass backwards (though he did give a lot to hillary, go figure), but well...gotta do what ya gotta do.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I use to think like you when I was 16-18 years old.

At the risk of getting a few days ban, go **** yourself.

[broncocalijohn]

Lets see, when I'm working out of the union hall, I get $30 an hour on check, $2 an hour vacation, $2 an hour annuity, $45 to $100 a day subsistence, $7 an hour company paid into pension, $9 an hour company paid into health and welfare, OT anything after 8hrs, time and a half Saturdays, double time on Sundays and holidays, strictest and most enforced safety regulations in the country. This is what we get for paying our union dues.

Saying all that, we are compensated for our labor fairly, certainly no more than that (our work is some of the most dangerous in the world).

Now i know why they add a couple of thousands of dollars to that brand new piece of crap car they shell out in Detroit. It is great for the personal worker but is it great for the others? If Detroit cant make it through this time, let us see what happens to those pensions and lifetime jobs. It can get ugly.

[TexanBob]

Unions are just like a lot of other things in the business world - they are useful in removing some of the exploitation that can happen from unscrupulous businessmen but they also become a danger themselves when they acquire too much power. Having worked under a union shop and free from a union shop, I can tell you two things:

1) The unions exist for the unions, not the employees. The decisions made by the union I worked in were always in the best interest of The Union even if it hurt the actual employees.

2) Most businesses can take a union contract and use the wording of the contract to screw the union. I saw many instances where businesses said they could not do something that would ultimately benefit workers because it would violate the union contract. And it would be right there in print. And the union would not agree to change it because they wanted it as a chip in the next bargaining agreement so they could tell their members management didn't want to give them this until the union forced them into it.

Bottom-line: Don't trust a corporation *nor* a union any further than you can throw it. Either one will stab you in the back and think nothing of it.

[Hogan11]

I've worked for both non Union and Union shops and I can tell you without hesitation which one was better.....I'll never work for a non Union shop ever again.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Now i know why they add a couple of thousands of dollars to that brand new piece of crap car they shell out in Detroit. It is great for the personal worker but is it great for the others? If Detroit cant make it through this time, let us see what happens to those pensions and lifetime jobs. It can get ugly.I'm not an automaker and don't know what their wages are though I know they have made major concessions (paid wages and benefit packages are now comparable across the industry) because of non-union workers at Honda and Toyota working for less benefits and wages.

And of course, any good benefits and good wages that anyone now enjoys across the country are a direct result of unions demanding fair wages and safe working conditions through the decades.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I use to think like you when I was 16-18 years old.

So you're telling us you did have a brain at one point?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

1) The unions exist for the unions, not the employees. The decisions made by the union I worked in were always in the best interest of The Union even if it hurt the actual employees.This is typical ignorant tripe. I could say having worked one non-union job all non-union jobs care nothing about their employees which would be equally as ignorant. And the employees are the unions.

2) Most businesses can take a union contract and use the wording of the contract to screw the union. I saw many instances where businesses said they could not do something that would ultimately benefit workers because it would violate the union contract. And it would be right there in print. And the union would not agree to change it because they wanted it as a chip in the next bargaining agreement so they could tell their members management didn't want to give them this until the union forced them into it.Just as ignorant as the first statement. Most unions strive for the best wages, working conditions and benefits for their members since the business managers are members and don't leave "chips" out there on a possible chance it may be used in future negotiations.

Bottom-line: Don't trust a corporation *nor* a union any further than you can throw it. Either one will stab you in the back and think nothing of it.One huge difference, working for a union you know exactly what your rights and working conditions are as an employee, where a company can sh*t can you anytime for any reason, renig on promised salary or promotions, demote you for any reason, transfer you out of area, etc...

Also, union pensions are protected and regulated by the federal government.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Meanwhile, on the radio this evening on the way home from work, one of the reporters pointed out that since Bush came into office, Big Oil has made IN PROFIT $600 billion dollars. Obviously, those corporations need to be protected from the ravages of labor.

Not to mention lavished with additional billions in tax breaks and government subsidies (read: handouts, corporate welfare, etc.)

Bushonomics = socialism for the super-rich/private enterprise for everybody else.

But hey - everybody knows this is the only way these poor, beleaguered oil companies can make a profit or compete, right? ;)

[TexanBob]

And the employees are the unions.


Talk about ignorant tripe, that ranks right up there.

The people at the top of the union who do the negotiating and run the union don't do anything else. They don't do the work of the people they represent. They couldn't do your job if they tried.

It is THEY who decide to strike and during the strike THEY still get paid as if nothing's different while YOU have to do without basic necessities for whatever principle THEY determined was worth striking over. Believe me, I have first-hand experience at this.

They have a great little shakedown act going where they pretend they are representing you but you are just the pawn in their little power grabs against management. It's all about them. When I was young and foolish and believed their little spiel, I got burned every time I needed them to fight for me. But they would fight for the cashier who was stealing money out of the register. They would fight for the employee that was stealing through women's purses on her break.

And I guess you've never heard of unions run by organized crime. Not all of them are, but some of them have historically been run by crime organizations.

Yes, the unions have done some good things over the course of history but they've also been hotbeds of crime and corruption. To be ignorant of that is to be ignorant of history.

[Spider]

Talk about ignorant tripe, that ranks right up there.

The people at the top of the union who do the negotiating and run the union don't do anything else. They don't do the work of the people they represent. They couldn't do your job if they tried.

It is THEY who decide to strike and during the strike THEY still get paid as if nothing's different while YOU have to do without basic necessities for whatever principle THEY determined was worth striking over. Believe me, I have first-hand experience at this.

They have a great little shakedown act going where they pretend they are representing you but you are just the pawn in their little power grabs against management. It's all about them. When I was young and foolish and believed their little spiel, I got burned every time I needed them to fight for me. But they would fight for the cashier who was stealing money out of the register. They would fight for the employee that was stealing through women's purses on her break.

And I guess you've never heard of unions run by organized crime. Not all of them are, but some of them have historically been run by crime organizations.

Yes, the unions have done some good things over the course of history but they've also been hotbeds of crime and corruption. To be ignorant of that is to be ignorant of history.

Thats was true way back , mainly the teamsters , but it all came to an end in 1992 ...

[Kaylore]

If you like the Mob, then Unions are for you! ;)

[Spider]

If you like the Mob, then Unions are for you! ;)

;D everybody loves goodfellas .....

[Hogan11]

;D everybody loves goodfellas .....

..and Hoffa :welcome:

[enjolras]

Your status as a contractor denies you pretty much any union protection anyways.

Disclaimer: I'm currently working for newscorp in one of their subsidiaries. I love the company (the subsidiary), but I LOATHE newscorp. From the employment agreement they force down your throat to trying to get them to actually pay an expense report... they suck.

However, I'm confused: You make the choice to be an hourly contractor. Having been in that position before there is no guarantee of a 40 hour week. Contractors, by definition, are under a non-standard agreement with the company. An agreement that enjoys absolutely no union protection. Even if there WAS a union, as a contractor it does you absolutely no good.

It does sound to me like your not operating as a contractor, but rather as an employee. Something the government really cracked down on several years ago (pre-Bush). Mainly because it is a way for companies to avoid employment taxes and unemployment insurance.

[Bronco Jamus]

I have worked freelance for Fox (Newscorp) for over two years now. As a freelancer, I get no insurance, no holidays, no sick days, no perks. I'm fine with that, thats a choice I make.

Every friday before a 3 day weekend, we are dismissed early in a gesture of appreciation. I've always put a full day on my time card as told by my supervisors. So, when I did it for memorial day, I was paid as normal. Today, HR calls me and tells me that they refuse to pay me for the afternoon hours on friday since i'm not an official employee and i did not work those hours (when i was told to leave). So, in my next pay check, they are docking me three hours. Real classy. This is how corporations take care of their workers. But yeah, Unions are the problem...right.

You get paid for the hours your work based on the agreement you decided to make. Not only is this what the business should do, you shouldn't expect to get paid. You are in essence a contractor.

[Spider]

..and Hoffa :welcome:

;D

[Spider]

You get paid for the hours your work based on the agreement you decided to make. Not only is this what the business should do, you shouldn't expect to get paid. You are in essence a contractor.
.as a contractor , if I am told to be somewhere , at a certain time , for a certain amount of time , and the company that contracted me lets me go early , they are getting charged for the full time we agreed upon ....
1st . I booked my time for that particular time frame , I dint take any other offers, nor could I look for any other offers ..
2nd ... It isnt my fault they cant manages their time , or over booked so why should I have ot pay for their screw up ? ...
lastly , you got a lot to learn about the business world

[Spider]

of course there are exceptions to the rules ....... If it is a repeat customer , they get breaks when it comes to the truck , for example Hemphil damn good contractor , the pay was always there , no hassles , top of the line pay , if they booked me for 130 hours , only worked me for a 100 , they dint get charged the other 30 . But now T.K. Stanley books me for 130 hours , only works me a 100 , they are getting charged 130 hours + anything I can find to charge them extra on ........

[SonOfLe-loLang]

.as a contractor , if I am told to be somewhere , at a certain time , for a certain amount of time , and the company that contracted me lets me go early , they are getting charged for the full time we agreed upon ....
1st . I booked my time for that particular time frame , I dint take any other offers, nor could I look for any other offers ..
2nd ... It isnt my fault they cant manages their time , or over booked so why should I have ot pay for their screw up ? ...
lastly , you got a lot to learn about the business world

This is exactly my point. On top of that, I'm not a new employee and there should be a level of loyalty within a company. These afternoons off are forced and given as gifts. To pay me for it, then only to take it away from me out of my next paycheck is both poor form and absurd. You want to keep happy employees, you don't give them the shaft to save a few dollars than I need a lot more than them. I don't think my 3 hours made Newscorp stock raise.

And for those people who think im being a bitch, if you are a boss, i hope you dont do this kindo f **** to your employees. It'll just create discontent.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

It does sound to me like your not operating as a contractor, but rather as an employee. Something the government really cracked down on several years ago (pre-Bush). Mainly because it is a way for companies to avoid employment taxes and unemployment insurance.

Yeah, thats exactly what they are doing.

[Bronco Jamus]

I have worked freelance for Fox (Newscorp) for over two years now. As a freelancer, I get no insurance, no holidays, no sick days, no perks. I'm fine with that, thats a choice I make.

Every friday before a 3 day weekend, we are dismissed early in a gesture of appreciation. I've always put a full day on my time card as told by my supervisors. So, when I did it for memorial day, I was paid as normal. Today, HR calls me and tells me that they refuse to pay me for the afternoon hours on friday since i'm not an official employee and i did not work those hours (when i was told to leave). So, in my next pay check, they are docking me three hours. Real classy. This is how corporations take care of their workers. But yeah, Unions are the problem...right.

I would also say that Unions aren't completely bad, but in several areas they are. Two of which are they drive up prices for the consumer, they allow poor employee performance to be maintained and paid. These are bad for business. I won't work for a company that is unionized, nor will I support anyone who does belong to a union.

[Bronco Jamus]

This is exactly my point. On top of that, I'm not a new employee and there should be a level of loyalty within a company. These afternoons off are forced and given as gifts. To pay me for it, then only to take it away from me out of my next paycheck is both poor form and absurd. You want to keep happy employees, you don't give them the shaft to save a few dollars than I need a lot more than them. I don't think my 3 hours made Newscorp stock raise.

And for those people who think im being a b****, if you are a boss, i hope you dont do this kindo f **** to your employees. It'll just create discontent.

If you don't have it in your contract you are an at will employee and they do not have to pay you and can terminate you at any time. Even if you are on a w-2. However, if you are on a w-2 and they terminate you without cause you can claim unemployment.

[Bronco Jamus]

On top of that, I'm not a new employee and there should be a level of loyalty within a company.

That's a fantasy. It would be rare to find loyalty from a company.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I would also say that Unions aren't completely bad, but in several areas they are. Two of which are they drive up prices for the consumer, they allow poor employee performance to be maintained and paid. These are bad for business. I won't work for a company that is unionized, nor will I support anyone who does belong to a union.

Well, i don't know what to tell you. Enjoy your lower wages while the bigwigs earn their inflated salaries and huge payouts. If youre fortunate to be one of them, great, if not, enjoy your lower middle class lifestyle.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

That's a fantasy. It would be rare to find loyalty from a company.

And this is why you have unions. Because people with money like to take advantage of people without it. Why people think a total free market will suddenly make everything fair is beyond me. All the money will go to the top, the middle class will fade into obscurity and you'll have civil unrest.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

If you don't have it in your contract you are an at will employee and they do not have to pay you and can terminate you at any time. Even if you are on a w-2. However, if you are on a w-2 and they terminate you without cause you can claim unemployment.

And i never said it wasn't illegal, i said it was incredibly poor form.

[Bronco Jamus]

And i never said it wasn't illegal, i said it was incredibly poor form.

It's not "poor form", it's how you are doing business with that business. All I am hearing is you want to get paid for hours you didn't work.

[Bronco Jamus]

And this is why you have unions. Because people with money like to take advantage of people without it. Why people think a total free market will suddenly make everything fair is beyond me. All the money will go to the top, the middle class will fade into obscurity and you'll have civil unrest.

You aren't promised a fair life. Entrophy proves that nothing can be considered static or in a constant state of equilibrium. A free market is better than a fixed market every time.

[Bronco Jamus]

Well, i don't know what to tell you. Enjoy your lower wages while the bigwigs earn their inflated salaries and huge payouts. If youre fortunate to be one of them, great, if not, enjoy your lower middle class lifestyle.

I make a fair wage for the work I do. If I don't like it I have two options:

1)Put my big girl britches on and deal with it

or

2)Better myself through education and go get another job that pays more.

It's really that simple.

[Dudeskey]

Now i know why they add a couple of thousands of dollars to that brand new piece of crap car they shell out in Detroit. It is great for the personal worker but is it great for the others? If Detroit cant make it through this time, let us see what happens to those pensions and lifetime jobs. It can get ugly.

Unions aren't the reason Detoilet can't build a car that can compete w/ the Hondas & Toyotas of the world.... Chalk it up to bloated management... or in a less politically correct expression: Too many chiefs and not enough indians- thats the problem with the big 3

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I make a fair wage for the work I do. If I don't like it I have two options:

1)Put my big girl britches on and deal with it

or

2)Better myself through education and go get another job that pays more.

It's really that simple.


For the one millionth time. If I'm asked to come in and work a 9 hour day and i'm TOLD by my superiors to leave early when I am perfectly willing to work the full time, THAT is on THEM. I was denied the oppurtunity to work the full day because I was told that the afternoon off was like a gift for hard work done. To then give me that, only to have them take it away 2 weeks later is poor form, no matter how you slice it.

No one said the world is fair, but to accept authority at all costs is dangerous. To not question your superiors and ass backwards practices are dangerous.

And a completely free market will only lead to chaos. There's a reason why its controlled.

Fall in line, sheep. Go be the happy company man you seem to be.

[TexanBob]

This thread is really split into two topics:

Son of's dispute with his employers and the value of unions.

IMO, unions were dragged into the discussion unnecessarily. It sounds to me like your immediate manager was creating his own policy that the payroll department wasn't willing to uphold. That has nothing to do with Rupert Murdoch or greedy millionaires. It has to do with two managers who have a disagreement. It happens.

I think part of Son of's reactions is because he thinks all corporations are greedy and will not give a pittance more to employees than they can get away with. If true, that's short-sighted.

Businesses do not exist in a vacuum. If you want the best employees, you have to recruit them. If you don't, your competitor will. Granted, you may never get the cushiest perks in a non-uniuon business but, then, not everyone can be a $200,000/yr union longshoreman.

[Bronco Jamus]

For the one millionth time. If I'm asked to come in and work a 9 hour day and i'm TOLD by my superiors to leave early when I am perfectly willing to work the full time, THAT is on THEM.

It is not. You are a contractor. You are an at will employee. You are not promised hours

[SonOfLe-loLang]

This thread is really split into two topics:

Son of's dispute with his employers and the value of unions.

IMO, unions were dragged into the discussion unnecessarily. It sounds to me like your immediate manager was creating his own policy that the payroll department wasn't willing to uphold. That has nothing to do with Rupert Murdoch or greedy millionaires. It has to do with two managers who have a disagreement. It happens.

I think part of Son of's reactions is because he thinks all corporations are greedy and will not give a pittance more to employees than they can get away with. If true, that's short-sighted.

Businesses do not exist in a vacuum. If you want the best employees, you have to recruit them. If you don't, your competitor will. Granted, you may never get the cushiest perks in a non-uniuon business but, then, not everyone can be a $200,000/yr union longshoreman.


I think your assumption of my thoughts is a little presumptious, but in my experience (and thats really all i can speak from), corporations have taken advantage of their employees. I'm sure there are not all like that (i know some friends who work for huge companies that treat their employee's very well.)

To wit:

The writers strike crippled the Hollywood industry for a few months. It was unfortunate for everyone, admittedly both side were a little greedy. Because of decreased revenue, some of the companies here actually docked THE UPPER MANAGEMENT SALARY a little bit so everyone could keep their job. Even down to the parking attendants. I really appreciated hearing those kinds of stories because it showed that these companies valued every employee and recognized that everyone pitches in. This to me is fair and certainly not an impossibility.

At Newscorp, only the bottom of the totem pole got their salaries reduced, which unfortunately lead to some layoffs of only the bottom rung. Upper management kept all their salaries, all their perks. This is a microcosm of the problem and this is what contributes to recessions. The middle class/lower clas loses their wages and therefore their spending power. Since they obviously make up the majority of the spending market, they spend less and all business suffers. It just makes sense to fortify this group of people to keep a constant positive flow of spending.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

It is not. You are a contractor. You are an at will employee. You are not promised hours

As i said, fall in line. I hope you enjoy the next time a bigwig is caught in some scandal and gets a multi million dollar pay out. After all, big business is only out for your best interests.

[Bronco Jamus]

As i said, fall in line. I hope you enjoy the next time a bigwig is caught in some scandal and gets a multi million dollar pay out. After all, big business is only out for your best interests.

You are being ridiculous, your quote has nothing to do with the fact that you think your should get paid as a contractor for not working . We get it. You think you should have your cake and eat it too. You think most things should be for free and you should always have a saftey net to catch your arse when you fall down. Come back to reality. If you don't like your job or the conditions of your employment, what are you doing to change that? It's up to you, and not everyone else.

By the way, I will be conducting a team meeting tomorrow and I'll be using your story here as an example of expectations.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

You are being ridiculous, your quote has nothing to do with the fact that you think your should get paid as a contractor for not working . We get it. You think you should have your cake and eat it too. You think most things should be for free and you should always have a saftey net to catch your arse when you fall down. Come back to reality. If you don't like your job or the conditions of your employment, what are you doing to change that? It's up to you, and not everyone else.

By the way, I will be conducting a team meeting tomorrow and I'll be using your story here as an example of expectations.

Glad i could help:) And i'm sure you'll tell the story exactly as it happened without slant. I'm sure you will. Expectations. Employee A was told he'd be paid for the entire day. Then as a gift, he was told to go home while being told he'd still be paid. Then two weeks later, after payment, Employee A's wages were garnished by a billion dollar corporation who desperately needed his 100 dollars. See how your "team" likes that. I bet they call you the "a-hole" boss behind your back.

And my point of this isnt that i need the money. I do well for myself, thank you. I unfortunately need to keep fluid because I have more than one job and am working towards a career that is difficult to establish yourself in, but im close. And hope to be doing it full time soon since i worked my ass off for it. And regardless of my success in it, I'm proud of my effort and my willingness to take a chance.

My point of this entire story was to show that large corporations often don't care about their employees. They don't see them as humans, but just as replaceable cogs. That, to me, is sad for society. This is why unions have formed. To protect people's rights and wages. Perhaps sometimes they can get out of hand, but their existence is good. It's like people who can't stand the ACLU. Here's a group whose sole purpose is to protect citizens first amendment rights. How awful! It baffles me that people loathe them.

I know you simply accept it, but that doesn't make it right. You live in a cold world where you don't really care about many people outside of your immediate family and you consistently pass judgment on others without knowing their story (im not basing this on this conversation, im basing it on past ones we've had.) And if you're happy with that kind of self-centered nature, then that's great. If youre happy with constantly accepting authority because "thats the way it is," Good for you. Go pull up your "big girl britches" and live like a sheep. And I feel bad for you. Because its that kind of thinking that creates our me-first society. And perhaps my optimism for humanity is unrealistic, but I refuse to accept it and will do what I can to make things even a little better..if not for me, then for the next person.

[Bronco Jamus]

My point of this entire story was to show that large corporations often don't care about their employees. They don't see them as humans, but just as replaceable cogs..

And they would be right. I don't even use the word contractor anymore. They are just resources.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

And they would be right. I don't even use the word contractor anymore. They are just resources.

I really really feel bad for you.

[Bronco Jamus]

This is why unions have formed. To protect people's rights and wages. Perhaps sometimes they can get out of hand, but their existence is good. It's like people who can't stand the ACLU. Here's a group whose sole purpose is to protect citizens first amendment rights. How awful! It baffles me that people loathe them.
.

Unions formed because of poor working conditions and unfair labor practices. Sweat shop conditons. I am all for that, but it's not like that anymore. It's not the early 1900's.

The ACLU also has a purpose, but much like PETA they go about ti the wrong way. Further more they will NOT take your case unless it changes laws, which is what they are interested in despite their motto.

[Bronco Jamus]

I really really feel bad for you.

They get paid and well. I've got one resource that make 115k/year on a 18 month contract to program one app and devlop MS Sharepoint.

[Bronco Jamus]

I know you simply accept it, but that doesn't make it right. You live in a cold world where you don't really care about many people outside of your immediate family and you consistently pass judgment on others without knowing their story (im not basing this on this conversation, im basing it on past ones we've had.) .


A)You just did what you accused me of, and
B)You have me confused with someone else. Don't get all self righteous.



And if you're happy with that kind of self-centered nature, then that's great. If youre happy with constantly accepting authority because "thats the way it is," Good for you. Go pull up your "big girl britches" and live like a sheep. And I feel bad for you. Because its that kind of thinking that creates our me-first society. And perhaps my optimism for humanity is unrealistic, but I refuse to accept it and will do what I can to make things even a little better..if not for me, then for the next person.

There is nothing self-centered about it. It's a contract. Signed by the resource. It's all up front. Their is nothing dishonest about it.

As far as authority and questioning, like most seasoned people, I pick and choose my battles. Complaining about getting paid for work I didn't perform isn't a battle I'd fight.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

They get paid and well. I've got one resource that make 115k/year on a 18 month contract to program one app and devlop MS Sharepoint.

I don't care how much they get paid, you're missing my point. I feel bad for you because you refuse to see them as human beings. Like they are some foot soldier from a video game that comes in and out of your life, has no past or future, no family or friends. It's sad.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

A)You just did what you accused me of, and
B)You have me confused with someone else. Don't get all self righteous.




There is nothing self-centered about it. It's a contract. Signed by the resource. It's all up front. Their is nothing dishonest about it.

As far as authority and questioning, like most seasoned people, I pick and choose my battles. Complaining about getting paid for work I didn't perform isn't a battle I'd fight.

I'm not confusing you with someone else. I got a 3 day ban for calling you a self-righteous a-hole a number of months ago. And it was completely worth it.

[Bronco Jamus]

I don't care how much they get paid, you're missing my point. I feel bad for you because you refuse to see them as human beings. Like they are some foot soldier from a video game that comes in and out of your life, has no past or future, no family or friends. It's sad.

You have professional and personal all muddled together. I wear both hats well. We play golf together and know all about each others families and spend time together outside of the office. However, I have responsibility to the share holders as well. I have to protect their investment. Meaing that if they don't work that week for any reason they only get paid for the hours worked.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Talk about ignorant tripe, that ranks right up there.

The people at the top of the union who do the negotiating and run the union don't do anything else. They don't do the work of the people they represent. They couldn't do your job if they tried.

It is THEY who decide to strike and during the strike THEY still get paid as if nothing's different while YOU have to do without basic necessities for whatever principle THEY determined was worth striking over. Believe me, I have first-hand experience at this.

They have a great little shakedown act going where they pretend they are representing you but you are just the pawn in their little power grabs against management. It's all about them. When I was young and foolish and believed their little spiel, I got burned every time I needed them to fight for me. But they would fight for the cashier who was stealing money out of the register. They would fight for the employee that was stealing through women's purses on her break.

And I guess you've never heard of unions run by organized crime. Not all of them are, but some of them have historically been run by crime organizations.

Yes, the unions have done some good things over the course of history but they've also been hotbeds of crime and corruption. To be ignorant of that is to be ignorant of history.This is why I said you don't know what the hell you are talking about by stereotyping all unions. How many have you worked for? Our local business managers, who are dues paying members, do negotiate our contracts. All union hall positions are voted on every three years so you could be the BA one term and back out in the field the next.

Your pathetic rambling painting union members as idiots and unions in general as criminal reeks of your obvious ignorance on the subject.