Anyone wanna get depressed with me?

[Hotrod]

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming

1995 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 121 Jamie Brown T Florida A&M
4 124 Ken Brown LB Virginia Tech
5 146 Phil Yeboah-Kodie LB Penn State
6 182 Fritz Fequiere -- Iowa
6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 218 Steve Russ LB Air Force
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State (Neb.)

[cmhargrove]

Um, life didn't end after 2005.

Posting the last three years will make you a little less depressed.

BTW - it would be interesting to see how many guys drafted before 2002 are still in the league (percentage wise).

We are redeeming ourselves.

[Hotrod]

Um, life didn't end after 2005.

Posting the last three years will make you a little less depressed.

BTW - it would be interesting to see how many guys drafted before 2002 are still in the league (percentage wise).

We are redeeming ourselves.

Oh I agree with the quality of the recent drafts I was just looking back. Someone on another board posted this and I found it um well interesting I guess.

[Killericon]

Hahaha...Clarett is not worthy of a position.

[brncs_fan]

It is also note-worthy that we got multiple starters out of those drafts. Whether they are still with us or still in the league is a valid point. We should also remember what some of them gave us as well.

[cmhargrove]

How about making a list of free agent busts?

[Hotrod]

How about making a list of free agent busts?

Does Taco have enough room on the internets for that ;)

[RunSilentRunDeep]

I don't why people get so down on the 2005 draft. So they missed on Clarett, big deal. Williams could have been great with more time (RIP). Foxworth and Paymah are quality backups that could probably start elsewhere. Myers (even though not a fan) still became a starter in the league and got us some compensation. Ernster? Who cares?

[NYBronco]

Hmmm... how would the raiders compare?

[Smiling Assassin27]

Jeremy LeSeur...gimme a gun.

[orangeatheist]

If I wanna get depressed, all I need to do is go buy a gallon of either gas or milk. Yesh.

[Punisher]

............... >:(

[montrose]

Go through the NE Patriots draft history since 1995 and you'll see as many (or more) disappointing picks. Same goes for the Colts and even the Chargers. Contrary to popular belief, missing on picks isn't the reason for the Broncos current struggles. It's a contributing factor, as are the FA disappointments, but the #1 reason has been the Broncos failure to make a commitment to building a strong roster in the trenches.

[cutthemdown]

you couldn't draft any worst just letting a monkey pick.

[Popps]

Go through the NE Patriots draft history since 1995 and you'll see as many (or more) disappointing picks.s.

Yea, that's just flat-out wrong.

Add in free agents over the last decade, and it's twice as wrong.

Look at their roster, and then look at ours. I've loved our team for over three decades, but you've got to be absolutely blind to think that our front office does anywhere near the job NE's does. It's not even close.

Let me make it easy...

How many pro bowl defensive players have we drafted in the last decade?

How many pro bowl offensive players?

How many playoff games have we won?

How many players on the current rosters would people outside of this message board consider top-flight or star players? Of those (one, maybe two) players... how many did we draft?

You have to go back a long way to find any true impact players this team brought in. Yes, we have a few hopefuls in Cutler, Marshall, etc. But, to compare this team to the Patriots from a personnel perspective is complete insanity.

[montrose]

Yea, that's just flat-out wrong.

Add in free agents over the last decade, and it's twice as wrong.

Look at their roster, and then look at ours. I've loved our team for over three decades, but you've got to be absolutely blind to think that our front office does anywhere near the job NE's does. It's not even close.

Let me make it easy...

How many pro bowl defensive players have we drafted in the last decade?

How many pro bowl offensive players?

How many playoff games have we won?

How many players on the current rosters would people outside of this message board consider top-flight or star players? Of those (one, maybe two) players... how many did we draft?

You have to go back a long way to find any true impact players this team brought in. Yes, we have a few hopefuls in Cutler, Marshall, etc. But, to compare this team to the Patriots from a personnel perspective is complete insanity.

I never said our F.O. was as strong as NE's - it's not even close. I said that going back to 1995 you'd find just as many disappointing picks. I'll go back to 2000 because I'm lazy:

2000 - Only hit on Brady.

Adrian Klemm
J.R. Redmond
Greg Robinson-Randall
Dave Stachelski
Jeff Marriott
Antwan Harris
Tom Brady
David Nugent
Casey Tisdale
Patrick Pass

2001 - Only hit on Seymour and Light.

Richard Seymour
Matt Light
Brock Williams
Kenyatta Jones
Jabari Holloway
Hakim Akbar
Arther Love
Leonard Myers
Owen Pochman
T.J. Turner

2002 - Graham was their Ashley Lelie, a good contributor but not what they were hoping for. Branch and Givens were productive, but we're both let go.

Daniel Graham
Deion Branch
Rohan Davey
Jarvis Green
Antwoine Womack
David Givens

2003 - Their best draft but Wilson, Johnson and Banta-Cain were stop gap players any NE fan will tell you they were disappointed with.

Ty Warren
Eugene Wilson
Bethel Johnson
Dan Klecko
Asante Samuel
Dan Koppen
Kliff Kingsbury
Spencer Nead
Tully Banta-Cain
Ethan Kelley

2004 - Two hits, six misses.

Vince Wilfork
Benjamin Watson
Marquise Hill
Guss Scott
Dexter Reid
Cedric Cobbs
P.K. Sam
Christian Morton

2005 - Mankins is a hit. Hobbs and Kaczur are their respective unit's weak links, Sanders plays because Wilson was a bust, Cassel's stuck around but struggled in limited action.

Logan Mankins
Ellis Hobbs III
Nick Kaczur
James Sanders
Ryan Claridge
Matt Cassel
Andy Stokes

2006 - Maroney plays but isn't what they hoped for, Thomas is okay and Gostkowski was a solid pick - missed on all the rest.

Laurence Maroney
Chad Jackson
David Thomas
Garrett Mills
Stephen Gostkowski
Ryan O'Callaghan
Jeremy Mincey
Dan Stevenson
Le Kevin Smith
Willie Andrews

2007 - Obviously too early to tell much but the Broncos three-man '07 class contributed more than this group.

Brandon Meriweather
Kareem Brown
Clint Oldenburg
Justin Rogers
Mike Richardson
Justise Hairston
Corey Hilliard
Oscar Lua
Mike Elgin

My point wasn't to state how strong our F.O. is, but rather point out that many other teams - including the "team of the decade" has made tons of draft mistakes as well. My personal opinion, again, has simply been that N.E. and the other top teams have been wiser to build their OL and DL first. Take some of the good Broncos picks over the past since 2002: Portis, Brandon, Putzier, Williams, Foxworth, Marshall, Scheffler - if you had drafted an equal value hit (meaning an OT who played as well as Portis played RB, a DT who played as well as Foxworth played CB, etc.) INSTEAD of the afore mentioned players - you'd have a much better team, IMO. That's how important those positions are to winning, and that's why they need to be made such a high priority of. I've never been disappointed with the Broncos % of hits and misses vs. other teams (it's honestly not as bad as people make it out to be), I've been disappointed at the positions they continue to draft (CB, RB, WR) vs. the positions they continue to ignore (OT, G, DT).

[Hogan11]

Not the strongest club when it comes to the draft...I already knew that, thanks for the reminder.

[Popps]

I never said our F.O. was as strong as NE's - it's not even close. I said that going back to 1995 you'd find just as many disappointing picks. I'll go back to 2000 because I'm lazy:.

Dude, I'd trade our last five drafts for theirs in a New England minute.

It's not that all teams don't have misses. They certainly do. It's just that if you go through our drafts over the last 10 years, they're a ****ing joke.

The same can't be said for NE, which is why it's silly to use the "other teams have bad picks, too" defense.

Those other teams are MUCH more efficient in all areas than ours. Personally, I find that unacceptable and would rather that we address our problems instead of making excuses.

[tsiguy96]

Dude, I'd trade our last five drafts for theirs in a New England minute.

It's not that all teams don't have misses. They certainly do. It's just that if you go through our drafts over the last 10 years, they're a ****ing joke.

The same can't be said for NE, which is why it's silly to use the "other teams have bad picks, too" defense.

Those other teams are MUCH more efficient in all areas than ours. Personally, I find that unacceptable and would rather that we address our problems instead of making excuses.

if you would trade our last 5 drafts for theirs you are a total idiot. to say we outdrafted them in 06 and possibly 07 and likely 08 is an understatement

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Dude, I'd trade our last five drafts for theirs in a New England minute.

It's not that all teams don't have misses. They certainly do. It's just that if you go through our drafts over the last 10 years, they're a ****ing joke.

The same can't be said for NE, which is why it's silly to use the "other teams have bad picks, too" defense.

Those other teams are MUCH more efficient in all areas than ours. Personally, I find that unacceptable and would rather that we address our problems instead of making excuses.

I wouldn't trade our '06 draft for anyone else's draft class, just about any year. But otherwise, I'd have to go right along with you.

[bowtown]

2007 - Obviously too early to tell much but the Broncos three-man '07 class contributed more than this group.

Brandon Meriweather
Kareem Brown
Clint Oldenburg
Justin Rogers
Mike Richardson
Justise Hairston
Corey Hilliard
Oscar Lua
Mike Elgin


No it's not too early to tell. Meriweather is the only one still on the team. The others didn't even make it out of preseason.

LOL at Popps wanting to trade out last 5 drafts for theirs. :thumbsup:

[PaintballCLE]

hey if you really wanna get depressed.......just pretend your a raiders fan HAHAHA

[Los Broncos]

hey if you really wanna get depressed.......just pretend your a raiders fan HAHAHA

Yeah, that would work.

[Merlin]

if you would trade our last 5 drafts for theirs you are a total idiot. to say we outdrafted them in 06 and possibly 07 and likely 08 is an understatement
QFT. Anyone thinking that NE's last 3 drafts were decent has got to be a total tool. There is just no comparison between them in the last 5 yrs (Denvers last 4 range from good to Excellent). Some people should just lay-off the tea-bagging.

[colonelbeef]

2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland

1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State

2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)

3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota

2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah

1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest

1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas

1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia

6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State

Some good picks in there, some terrible picks. All teams have bad picks from year to year. You have to take into account that Denver was always drafting in the 2nd half of the rounds due to year in and year out success.

Funny how you didn't mention the 2006 and 2007 drafts either.

[colonelbeef]

Go through the NE Patriots draft history since 1995 and you'll see as many (or more) disappointing picks. Same goes for the Colts and even the Chargers. Contrary to popular belief, missing on picks isn't the reason for the Broncos current struggles. It's a contributing factor, as are the FA disappointments, but the #1 reason has been the Broncos failure to make a commitment to building a strong roster in the trenches.

I 2nd this post.

I have said this a number of times, and will continue to parrot this point:

The 2006, 2007, and 2008 drafts will go down as 3 of the best in franchise history, with 2006 being the single best class the Denver Broncos have ever had. The three drafts perfectly compliment each other, and will lead the way to a perenially contending team for the next 10 years.

[Popps]

if you would trade our last 5 drafts for theirs you are a total idiot. to say we outdrafted them in 06 and possibly 07 and likely 08 is an understatement

Excuse me, my bad. The last six.


Look, Mr. 100 post f#ck for brains... we don't have an offensive player as good as Tom Brady. We DEFINITELY haven't drafted a defensive player anywhere near as good as Seymore.

Argument over.

You can live in your fairy-tale land and wish all you want. Meanwhile, NE is winning multiple Superbowls and you're sitting here making excuses and talking out your ass because our team can't get out of its own way.

Again, you have reality... and then you have the Orange Mane message board Kool-Aid club.

Take your pick.

[Popps]

"Graham was their Ashley Lelie"

Sorry, just had to post this again in case anyone missed it.

Graham is the best blocking TE in the league. Lelie is almost out of football and can't couldn't even crack SF's roster.

But... they're the same.

Unreal.

[colonelbeef]

Actually, Popps, I would argue that Terrell Davis and Al Wilson compare to Brady and Seymour, since you brought it up

[Popps]

Actually, Popps, I would argue that Terrell Davis and Al Wilson compare to Brady and Seymour, since you brought it up

Yea, Terrell Davis was drafted in the last decade. Good point.


Good god this place has good to hell.

[tsiguy96]

Excuse me, my bad. The last six.


Look, Mr. 100 post f#ck for brains... we don't have an offensive player as good as Tom Brady. We DEFINITELY haven't drafted a defensive player anywhere near as good as Seymore.

Argument over.

You can live in your fairy-tale land and wish all you want. Meanwhile, NE is winning multiple Superbowls and you're sitting here making excuses and talking out your ass because our team can't get out of its own way.

Again, you have reality... and then you have the Orange Mane message board Kool-Aid club.

Take your pick.

ok mr. 13000 post **** for brains, neither were drafted in the last 6 drafts, were they? kinda hard to sound smart when you cant even ****ing count eh? keep telling yourself the last few patriot drafts have been amazing, while they have the oldest starting team in the league, many of whom they picked up as FAs.

[colonelbeef]

The original poster was comparing the draft records of the two franchises. I named two players drafted under Shanahan that compare to the two New England players you mentioned.


Originally Posted by tsiguy96 View Post
if you would trade our last 5 drafts for theirs you are a total idiot. to say we outdrafted them in 06 and possibly 07 and likely 08 is an understatement

Excuse me, my bad. The last six.


"Look, Mr. 100 post f#ck for brains... we don't have an offensive player as good as Tom Brady. We DEFINITELY haven't drafted a defensive player anywhere near as good as Seymore."


And by the way, since you have brought up the time frame, Tom Brady wasn't drafted in the past 5 years, or the past 6. So what exactly is your point? Are we now talking about the past 8 years so you don't look like a dumbass?

[colonelbeef]

ok mr. 13000 post **** for brains, neither were drafted in the last 6 drafts, were they? kinda hard to sound smart when you cant even ****ing count eh? keep telling yourself the last few patriot drafts have been amazing, while they have the oldest starting team in the league, many of whom they picked up as FAs.

No kidding.

[Popps]

ok mr. 13000 post **** for brains, neither were drafted in the last 6 drafts, were they? kinda hard to sound smart when you cant even ****ing count eh? keep telling yourself the last few patriot drafts have been amazing, while they have the oldest starting team in the league, many of whom they picked up as FAs.

Look boy, I went back as far as he did. Check his post. It included Brady's draft.

I also clearly stated that NE kicks our ass at signing free agents, or did you miss that part.

So, let me recap... they draft better than us and they sign FA's better than us. I'm not just talking about the past two drafts. That's your own little fantasy. (Which is yet to be proven.)

So, your point is that you THINK the past two drafts MIGHT be better than NE's? Great. Hang your hat on that. That's much better than going deep into the playoffs and/or winning Superbowls every year.

You keep drinking that Kool-Aid, son.

[Popps]

No kidding.

Hey dude, you forgot to include John Elway. We drafted him in the last decade... didn't we?

[colonelbeef]

Hey dude, you forgot to include John Elway. We drafted him in the last decade... didn't we?

After this year we can include Cutler, Dumervil and Marshall, the quality of which NE hasn't drafted in 7 years. Does Clinton (I turned into Champ Bailey) Portis count? How about Darrent Williams? DJ?

[Popps]

After this year we can include Cutler, Dumervil and Marshall, the quality of which NE hasn't drafted in 7 years. Does Clinton (I turned into Champ Bailey) Portis count? How about Darrent Williams? DJ?

CUTLER: Absolutely unproven, and a high first round pick. Let's hope he lives up to his potential and to his draft pick. But, to include him in any sort of "proven" category is silly.

DUMERVIL: A nice, situational player who his own teammates say should NOT be a starter. He's a situational player and a nice value in the second round.

CLINTON PORTIS: He didn't work out and Shanahan proved my theory that he's a much better trader than a drafter.

DARRENT WILLIAMS: Who knows. He had ups and downs. Again, he's not to be included in any sort of "proven" category.


Like I said, it's nice to enjoy some of your team's draft picks. It's an entirely different thing when you start comparing our franchise with those who have had success over the last decade, unless you consider winning one playoff game success.

[Popps]

Oh, forgot..

DJ: A decent athlete who's yet to have a stand-out season, and yes.. I know all of the excuses for him. Again, we'll see... but he's no star.

[colonelbeef]

CUTLER: Absolutely unproven, and a high first round pick. Let's hope he lives up to his potential and to his draft pick. But, to include him in any sort of "proven" category is silly.

DUMERVIL: A nice, situational player who his own teammates say should NOT be a starter. He's a situational player and a nice value in the second round.

CLINTON PORTIS: He didn't work out and Shanahan proved my theory that he's a much better trader than a drafter.

DARRENT WILLIAMS: Who knows. He had ups and downs. Again, he's not to be included in any sort of "proven" category.


Like I said, it's nice to enjoy some of your team's draft picks. It's an entirely different thing when you start comparing our franchise with those who have had success over the last decade, unless you consider winning one playoff game success.


Clinton Portis, a 2nd rounder, ran for 1500+ yards twice and 29 Td's before being traded to Washington for a future hall of famer. Hardly call that "not working out."

I could go on arguing this all night long, Dumervil is better than you are giving him credit for, DJ was an excellent pick playing out of position- 145 tackles last year good for 2nd in the entire NFL, which I would say puts him squarely into the star category. Darrent was on his way to being an excellent cover man with superior hands, and Cutler had an 89 QB rating last year, his first full year as a starter, to go with 20 Td's and 3500 yards. If he is so unproven, would you bet your life on cutler progressing further this year (progression will mean he has turned into a star obviously) or regressing from last year?

You are not wrong in saying that NE's success has largely come from solid drafts. I would argue however that Belichick and Pioli haven't had a good draft in 5 years, and certainly if you are comparing 2005-2007, Denver wins that contest hands down, with the jury being out on 2008 for obvious reasons.

[Taco John]

Oh, forgot..

DJ: A decent athlete who's yet to have a stand-out season, and yes.. I know all of the excuses for him. Again, we'll see... but he's no star.



His rookie year was a standout season when he was playing his natural position. He hasn't been over there since.

[Popps]

Clinton Portis, a 2nd rounder, ran for 1500+ yards twice and 29 Td's before being traded to Washington for a future hall of famer. Hardly call that "not working out.".

We found a suitor, or we'd all look much differently at the situation. Again, Portis worked out for us in the end thanks to Shanahan's ability to pull strings in trades, and yes... he certainly was productive in Denver.


You are not wrong in saying that NE's success has largely come from solid drafts. I would argue however that Belichick and Pioli haven't had a good draft in 5 years, and certainly if you are comparing 2005-2007, Denver wins that contest hands down

Again, how you figure we win hands-down is beyond me. You can't even count Cutler yet. The guy hasn't done ****. DJ is a legend on this board and decent player anywhere outside this board. Sheffler can't stay on the field.
Dumervil is a nice, productive situational player.

Where the **** do you guys get this "draft of the century" stuff? C'mon, we finally nabbed a few guys we didn't have to cut immediately, and we're comparing ourselves to the Patriots?

Let's get real, here.

[Popps]

His rookie year was a standout season when he was playing his natural position. He hasn't been over there since.

Like I said, Taco... I'm fully versed on the excuses for the guy and I buy it to an extent.

I also think he was largely helped by having Wilson pointing his ass in the right direction on every play.

He's fine if there's talent around him, but he's no stand-out, imo.. and probably never will be.

[colonelbeef]

You are way downplaying the 2006 draft, Popps. 3500 yards and 20 td's from the QB, 1325 yards and 7 Td's from the WR, 549 yards and 5 td's from the TE ( in only 12 games) and 12 sacks and 4 forced fumbles out of the DE, all from the same damn draft? How do you not find that to be a huge success?

[colonelbeef]

Eh, no matter. I am optimistic about this team, you are pessimistic. so it goes.

[yavoon]

its pretty telling when the best drafts are perpetually the most recent ones. potential for the win.

[Broncosfreak_56]

The only HORRIBLE drafts are were the 2004 and 1998 drafts. The ret of them have at least 2 solid contributers, even if they erent with the team anymore.

[Popps]

You are way downplaying the 2006 draft, Popps. 3500 yards and 20 td's from the QB, 1325 yards and 7 Td's from the WR, 549 yards and 5 td's from the TE ( in only 12 games) and 12 sacks and 4 forced fumbles out of the DE, all from the same damn draft? How do you not find that to be a huge success?

Cutler ranked out around 10th, overall. Not bad at all. 20 TDs 14 INTs. Solid.

But again, let's not mistake him for a Pro Bowl QB just yet.

Marshall looks to have Pro Bowl potential. I hope and expect he will. 6th in the league in yardage isn't too shabby.

I love Elvis for what he is, and I have pumped up Sheffler around here as one of the (potential) best receiving TEs in the league... if he could stay on the field.

There you have some promising players and certainly the makings of ONE nice draft, but I think we need a little more time for perspective.

Furthermore, to quote one nice draft as the base of an argument that says we're no different than NE is just silly. There's nothing wrong with being a hopeful fan, but let's leave being blind Kool-Aid drinkers to the dopes over on Chiefs Planet.

[Popps]

Eh, no matter. I am optimistic about this team, you are pessimistic. so it goes.

See, now you're back-tracking and mixing up arguments.

Are we talking about optimism or reality?

Those are two vastly different things. I'm optimistic it will rain next week here in LA. The reality is that it probably won't.

So, be optimistic. No one is telling you not to. Just don't compare our front office to the Patriots' on this board and not expect to be called out for it.

[colonelbeef]

See, now you're back-tracking and mixing up arguments.

Are we talking about optimism or reality?

Those are two vastly different things. I'm optimistic it will rain next week here in LA. The reality is that it probably won't.

So, be optimistic. No one is telling you not to. Just don't compare our front office to the Patriots' on this board and not expect to be called out for it.


We will have to wait until sometime next season to take this argument up again. I am optimistic that my point regarding the 2005-2008 drafts being clearly superior to that of the Pats will be fully borne out this year.

[Greybeard]

Everyone seems to think 2005 was a bad draft, and I can't figure why. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/hmmmm.gif

* D-Will was a starter.
* Foxy and Paymah are quality backups, important cogs on defense.
* Myers was a starter and was traded for value.

Yeah, there was Clarett . . . one fourth rounder out of all the selections.
And Ernster was a 7th.

Personally, I deem he not-so-good years through 2004 and the good years
beginning 2005.

But that's just me, I guess. *sigh*

-----

[Popps]

Everyone seems to think 2005 was a bad draft, and I can't figure why. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/hmmmm.gif

* D-Will was a starter.
* Foxy and Paymah are quality backups, important cogs on defense.
* Myers was a starter and was traded for value.

Yeah, there was Clarett . . . one fourth rounder out of all the selections.
And Ernster was a 7th.

Personally, I deem he not-so-good years through 2004 and the good years
beginning 2005.

But that's just me, I guess. *sigh*

-----


Everyone tends to focus on the busts, including sportswriters. But, the test is now how many missed, it's how many hit. At least half of all draft picks turn out to be pretty useless. The key is that the upper echelon teams seem to hit on a couple key draft picks every year, where as we really haven't, with the potential exception of the most recent drafts. Add to that a very sub-par free agency track record and it's easy to understand why we're where we are.

[Greybeard]

CUTLER: Absolutely unproven, and a high first round pick. Let's hope he lives up to his potential and to his draft pick. But, to include him in any sort of "proven" category is silly.

Unproven? Got better 2nd year stats than any other QB in their second year,
except Brady? Yeah, he needs another good year to nail it down, but more
knowledgeable people than you or I are singing Cutler's praises, and not just
in Broncos territory, either.

DUMERVIL: A nice, situational player who his own teammates say should NOT be a starter. He's a situational player and a nice value in the second round.

What teammates are saying Dumervil should not be the starter? I would
really like to know because I follow the Broncos closely. Am I missing
something?

CLINTON PORTIS: He didn't work out and Shanahan proved my theory that he's a much better trader than a drafter.

Didn't work out? Are you kidding? You have got to be kidding! Portis got more
than 1,500 yards in each of his starting seasons here, then he brought us
Champ. I remain in disbelief that you even said this.

DARRENT WILLIAMS: Who knows. He had ups and downs. Again, he's not to be included in any sort of "proven" category.

Of course he had ups and downs. He was a second-year CBs. Second-year
CBs have ups and downs. It's a fact of life. Another fact is that he was a
starter. That is a success for a 2nd round selection.

Like I said, it's nice to enjoy some of your team's draft picks. It's an entirely different thing when you start comparing our franchise with those who have had success over the last decade, unless you consider winning one playoff game success.

This thread is about the drafts, not W-L. I'm sure you can find one about
W-L somewhere in this forum. If not, you can start one.

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[Greybeard]

Everyone tends to focus on the busts, including sportswriters. But, the test is now how many missed, it's how many hit. At least half of all draft picks turn out to be pretty useless. The key is that the upper echelon teams seem to hit on a couple key draft picks every year, where as we really haven't, with the potential exception of the most recent drafts. Add to that a very sub-par free agency track record and it's easy to understand why we're where we are.

Okay, D-Will, Foxy, Paymah, and Myers hit.

Is that better. ;)

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[Popps]

Okay, D-Will, Foxy, Paymah, and Myers hit.

Is that better. ;)

-----

Besides Williams who made headlines because of a tragedy, your average NFL fan couldn't spot any of those guys in a line-up.

When I say "hit," Karl friggin' Paymah is not what I'm talking about.

[Popps]

Unproven? Got better 2nd year stats than any other QB in their second year

Yes. He's unproven. He's not done anything of note. He hasn't won anything. He hasn't cracked the top 3 in passing. He had a nice second year and has some things to work out. I expect he will, but to put this guy in Brady's class is just more silly Orangemane bull****.


Of course he had ups and downs. He was a second-year CBs. Second-year
CBs have ups and downs. It's a fact of life. Another fact is that he was a
starter. That is a success for a 2nd round selection.

-----

Lots of teams start lots of ****ty players they drafted in the 2nd round. What kind of ****ing logic is that?

"He started so he must be good."

Ummmm.... o.k.



This thread is about the drafts, not W-L. I'm sure you can find one about
W-L somewhere in this forum. If not, you can start one.

-----

Wow, look at junior doling out forum rules. Isn't that cute.

Look f#cko, winning has just a wee-bit to do with drafting. The two happen to be somewhat related. But, you "follow football closely," so I'd expect you'd know that.

[colonelbeef]

Last year's W-L record had jack **** to do with the last few drafts. It had to do with major injuries to veteran star leaders (Wilson, Nalen, Hamilton, Smith, Walker) and a moron in the backfield (Henry) and a tragic shooting death of an up and coming player the entire franchise liked (Williams)

Cutler, Sheffler, Crowder, Young, Kuper, Thomas all performed.

[Northman]

Oh I agree with the quality of the recent drafts I was just looking back. Someone on another board posted this and I found it um well interesting I guess.


No problem Hotrod, ill send you her and she will cheer you up. :thumbsup:


http://blog.spankreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/xoxoleah.jpg

[24champ]

Unproven? Got better 2nd year stats than any other QB in their second year,
except Brady? Yeah, he needs another good year to nail it down, but more
knowledgeable people than you or I are singing Cutler's praises, and not just
in Broncos territory, either.



What teammates are saying Dumervil should not be the starter? I would
really like to know because I follow the Broncos closely. Am I missing
something?



Didn't work out? Are you kidding? You have got to be kidding! Portis got more
than 1,500 yards in each of his starting seasons here, then he brought us
Champ. I remain in disbelief that you even said this.



Of course he had ups and downs. He was a second-year CBs. Second-year
CBs have ups and downs. It's a fact of life. Another fact is that he was a
starter. That is a success for a 2nd round selection.



This thread is about the drafts, not W-L. I'm sure you can find one about
W-L somewhere in this forum. If not, you can start one.

-----


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/24champbailey/GorillaPimpin.jpg

[Inkana7]

Those crafty Pats. They had the insight and superior draft knowledge to know that Brady would last until the 6th, then picked him up and laughed like Bandits.

[orinjkrush]

Shanny is a g*d when it comes to the first 15 plays of match ups.
other than that he is mortal. and with drafting...
sub prime.
retarded?
obnoxiously pig headed?
dumb and dumber?
Napoleonic?

[Pat Bowlen]

I didn't read much beyond the first post in this thread, but while you're at it you guys should also get depressed over every dropped ball, errant pass, missed field goal, missed tackle and poor call over the past 6-7 years.

[Greybeard]

Yes. He's unproven. He's not done anything of note. He hasn't won anything. He hasn't cracked the top 3 in passing. He had a nice second year and has some things to work out. I expect he will, but to put this guy in Brady's class is just more silly Orangemane bull****.



Lots of teams start lots of ****ty players they drafted in the 2nd round. What kind of ****ing logic is that?

"He started so he must be good."

Ummmm.... o.k.



Wow, look at junior doling out forum rules. Isn't that cute.

Look f#cko, winning has just a wee-bit to do with drafting. The two happen to be somewhat related. But, you "follow football closely," so I'd expect you'd know that.

So you don't want to conduct an intelligent discussion. I see.

I understand. Sorry about that.

I'll just back off and let you do your thing. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/coffee.gif

-----

[Popps]

So you don't want to conduct an intelligent discussion. I see.

I understand. Sorry about that.

I'll just back off and let you do your thing.

-----

If by "do your thing," you mean spewing out homeristic half-truths, knock yourself out.

[Greybeard]

If by "do your thing," you mean spewing out homeristic half-truths, knock yourself out.

Well actually, I was inviting you to do your thing. I thought I wrote it in simple enough English.

But anyway, you were making negative statements, and I disagreed, responding with positive ones.

Guess that makes me the bad guy . . . ???

-----

[CoopDawg]

2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland

1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State

2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)

3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota

2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah

1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest

1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas

1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia

6 196 Terrell Davis RB Georgia
7 222 Byron Chamberlain WR Wayne State

Some good picks in there, some terrible picks. All teams have bad picks from year to year. You have to take into account that Denver was always drafting in the 2nd half of the rounds due to year in and year out success.

Funny how you didn't mention the 2006 and 2007 drafts either.

Ok, so we did make some soild draft choices, at times in the later rounds. But we drafted horribly in the two areas that have caused our recent struggles. Last year we lost more games than we won because our offensive and defensive line play was horrid. Between 1995 and 2005 we succesfully drafted 3 CBs, 2 OLBs, 5 RBs, 1 DE, 1 MLB, 1 C, 1 S, 2 Gs, 1 DT, 1 TE and 2WRs.

But I wouldnt consider Patrick Jeffers a good pick just because he had one good season with Carolina, he had 3 cathces wearing the orange and blue. However, Ashley Lelie did pan out nicely for a short period of time. So 2 WRs is an accurate number.

Over a ten year span we drafted only 5 lineman worthy of being called a good pick (Carlisle, Hamilton, Hayward, Pryce & Nalen). Games are won in the trenches, we learned that the hard way this year. Our roster's potential will only be realized if we can draft lineman.

The last three years offer some hope. The Broncos selecting Kuper, Thomas, Harris, Crowder, Moss, Powell, Lichtensteiger and Clady at least signify that the front office is heading in the right direction. If we develop strong offensive and defensive lines the talents of Cutler, Bailey and Marshall can lead us back to the playoff victories.

[Popps]

Well actually, I was inviting you to do your thing. I thought I wrote it in simple enough English.

But anyway, you were making negative statements, and I disagreed, responding with positive ones.

Guess that makes me the bad guy . . . ???

-----

Look, you got sassy with me because the conversation evolved a bit. I've got no problem with a glass is half-full outlook. I think we're a few players away from being very competitive. That said, I'm also painfully aware of the reality of the last decade. We simply haven't made many good moves. Shanahan's system and game-day coaching has covered for us, but you have to have the horses. Right now, we've got some... but we're nowhere near teams like NE, Indy, Dallas, etc... and that's a direct result of a series of poor drafts and crumby FA periods. Even Mike Shanahan would be unlikely to argue that.

[Greybeard]

Look, you got sassy with me because the conversation evolved a bit. I've got no problem with a glass is half-full outlook. I think we're a few players away from being very competitive. That said, I'm also painfully aware of the reality of the last decade. We simply haven't made many good moves. Shanahan's system and game-day coaching has covered for us, but you have to have the horses. Right now, we've got some... but we're nowhere near teams like NE, Indy, Dallas, etc... and that's a direct result of a series of poor drafts and crumby FA periods. Even Mike Shanahan would be unlikely to argue that.

I got sassy? Look back and see who used profanities to describe whom.

I disagreed with you, and you became offended. So be it. Whatever. Let's just forget it now.

Moving right along . . .

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[Punisher]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/24champbailey/GorillaPimpin.jpg

The monkey is back from the deaps of hell :~ohyah!:

[Hotrod]

No problem Hotrod, ill send you her and she will cheer you up. :thumbsup:


http://blog.spankreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/xoxoleah.jpg

I feel better already :)

[TheReverend]

I feel better already :)

Do a utorrent search and you'll feel even better, bro.

[Rock Chalk]

Id take SDs last 5 drafts over any of Denvers best 5 drafts excluding the one where we snagged Elway via trade.

Quite frankly, those boys in SD have the best draft guru's on the planet in my opinion.

Denver does about average in drafting but the key here, which I think is what Popps was trying to make, is that the positions that he does well drafting in are limited. When Shanny has drafted linemen, particularly defensive linemen, he misses more than a blind man playing darts.

He is also VERY poor judge of FA talent and how a person's character will fit in with the team chemistry here. There have been a few OK FA pickups, and some pretty good ones but NONE Of the FA pick ups have EVER done so well that they can make up fro the monstrous busts we have picked up.

New England not so great at the draft either. Brady wasnt a great pickup, that was a lucky pickup much in the same vein as Terrell Davis was for Denver. When you are picked up in the 6th or 7th round and turn into a Probowler, thats just plain lucky by the team, not great scouting.

[Meck77]

We have 1 playoff win to show for the last 9 years no matter how you slice it. Our Win-loss record has been doing the wrong direction since then. Sorry just thought I'd mention a couple hard facts. Hopefully we turn this sinking ship around this season.

[Tombstone RJ]

Where the Pats have really excelled is bringing in the right FAs to fit their system. B.B. was very systematic in the players he brought it, and they've panned out beautifully. Add in some good hits in the draft, along with excellent game preparation and you've got a winner.

[Popps]

I disagreed with you, and you became offended. So be it. Whatever. Let's just forget it now.-

Nah. Better check again, sport. You were trying to play forum-cop and telling me what I could and couldn't post.

Just drop it.

[Popps]

Where the Pats have really excelled is bringing in the right FAs to fit their system. B.B. was very systematic in the players he brought it, and they've panned out beautifully. Add in some good hits in the draft, along with excellent game preparation and you've got a winner.

Bingo. Wish we could say the same. It's amazing what Shanahan has done with the little talent we've had here over the past decade.

[Greybeard]

Nah. Better check again, sport. You were trying to play forum-cop and telling me what I could and couldn't post.

Just drop it.

That's the way you read it. That is not the way I meant it. I wasn't trying to
tell you that you could or could not post anything. That was not the point I
was trying to make.

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