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Kaylore
05-29-2008, 12:11 AM
A good article on the positions no one around here cares about.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/may/27/experience-not-required-broncos-kicking-jobs/
Broncos shaving years off kickers
Job candidates to replace veterans are 24 or younger
By Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Originally published 05:43 p.m., May 27, 2008
Updated 11:53 p.m., May 27, 2008

They are baby boomers, these five punters and kickers who are competing for two open spots on the Broncos' roster.

None is older than 24.

None has more than three games of NFL experience.

Each is under the microscope.

"But there's a lot of talent, no doubt about it," said Sam Paulescu, who punted in last year's season finale after a stint in the Dallas Cowboys' camp. "We're probably the youngest group in the league, but I definitely feel we're one of the most talented."

And most anonymous, surely.

Only a year ago, Jason Elam and Todd Sauerbrun were unquestionably the Broncos' kicker and punter. And they had a combined six Pro Bowl selections.

But as the calendar turned, so did events.

Off-field issues sent Sauerbrun to the career coffin corner.

Contract structure led to Elam's departure from Denver in free agency and into an Atlanta Falcons uniform.

So off came the training wheels. The kiddie corps has arrived.

There are punters Brett Kern (age 22), Paulescu (24) and Danny Baugher (24) and kickers Matt Prater (23) and Garrett Hartley (22).

"I've got one year of experience and I'm considered the veteran," Prater, the front-runner to replace Elam, said sheepishly. "But it's a good situation for all of us."

It's primarily the job of special- teams coordinator Scott O'Brien to sort out everything.

"Somebody's going to come to the front," he said.

O'Brien is the same assistant who, last year, after one of many late-game close calls, opined his profession was the reason whiskey was invented.

One might suggest a fully stocked cabinet will be in order the next several months, given the task at hand.

But O'Brien appeared at ease Tuesday as the Broncos resumed their two-week quarterback camp after the holiday weekend.

His biggest task might be guiding all five specialists through the psychological land mines they'll face and ensuring they have the mental wherewithal to handle them, given all the assembled inexperience instead of any physical shortcomings.

"We feel we have a pretty good blend," O'Brien said. "We're young overall, no question about it. But they have to start somewhere, and so far, physically, they've all shown the ability to be able to do it at this level."

That said, in the first five days of workouts, there have been only two full punt-team drills with protection and live returns.

In the first, Paulescu and Baugher, who spent time on New England's practice squad in 2006 and competed for the Patriots job last summer, split practice snaps; in the second, rookie Kern went solo.

Hartley and Prater are on a twice-weekly kicking regimen, which will be increased to three, then four sessions by summer camp in late July.

They'll kick live field goals for the first time this week.

The shared approach will continue for the next eight weeks, when a pecking order will be established and, quite possibly, one of the combatants will be lopped off the roster given the new, stricter 80-man roster limits.

For now, Paulescu and Prater are the front-runners.

And while there's always a chance a veteran can be plucked off waivers deep into camp, the Broncos' thinking at this juncture is at least two of the baby boomers are here to stay.

"Time moves on. It really does," O'Brien said of the makeover at the two spots. "I can look at every situation that I've coached in, starting with Cleveland (in 1991) and picking out a kicker in Matt Stover, who's still with that organization, or picking up a punter off the street that people said was washed up in Brian Hansen, who punted another seven years after that, something like that, or moving on to Tom Tupa, who really didn't punt in this league (after initially playing quarterback and holding). . . .

"There's always options. You're always looking for the best one. And in the long run, it's, hopefully, a young guy who has the ability physically to do it and . . . he's your guy for a long time."

Leg strength doesn't appear to be an issue for any of the combatants. Still to be accomplished is working through drills enough that a screaming throng of 80,000 won't be a distraction. Elam and Sauerbrun had experienced every imaginable condition.

Kern, Paulescu, Prater, Baugher and Hartley have a combined five games of regular-season experience and none in the postseason.

"The skills, physically, you're looking for are there," O'Brien said. "When they hit the ball, they know it, I see it, I hear it, everybody else sees it. That part of the question, I think, has been answered. Now, can we do it on a consistent basis when it counts? So far, all indications are good. Until the preseason and all those situations come up and how we handle it or how they learn from either good or bad really determines how far they go and how far they last."

On the bright side, the team might be able to save a few bucks on shaving cream as well as a possible roster spot if a dual kickoff/field-goal threat emerged.

"We've got a lot of young, fresh legs and we're just going to go at it," Paulescu said. "You never know what (the Broncos will) do. Maybe they'll bring in a veteran. But we're just going to work our butts off and see what happens."

FULL HOUSE

The five combatants for the Broncos' punting and placekicking jobs.

Punters

Brett Kern, rookie free agent, Toledo

The skinny: Averaged 42.3 yards on 189 punts in 47 games, with 59 landing inside the 20-yard line. Finalist for Ray Guy Award as college football's top punter as a senior, when he ranked second in NCAA Division I-A in gross average (46.1).

Sam Paulescu, second-year pro, Oregon State

The skinny: Signed for final game of 2007 season after Todd Sauerbrun and Paul Ernster were released. Averaged 44.2 gross/40 net in finale against Minnesota. Spent time in Dallas' camp in 2007. Had 21 punts of more than 50 yards in college. Was out of football in 2006.

Danny Baugher, first-year pro, Arizona

The skinny: Joined Cincinnati as a college free agent in May 2006 but spent most of rookie year on New England's practice squad after the Patriots signed him that October. Averaged 43.4 yards in NFL Europa in 2007 with Rhein. Was a finalist for Ray Guy Award as a senior in 2005 after leading Division I-A with 47.5 average. Signed with the Broncos last month.

Placekickers

Garrett Hartley, rookie free agent, Oklahoma

The skinny: Ranked third in Oklahoma history in field goals made (47) and sixth in points (310). Converted 13-of-15 field-goal attempts as a senior. Best year was as a junior, when he went 19-for-20 on field goals with 31 touchbacks on 78 kickoffs.

Matt Prater, second-year pro, Central Florida

The skinny: Front-runner to replace Jason Elam with strong leg to handle kickoffs. Entered the NFL with Detroit in May 2006, then headed to Miami and Atlanta. Handled kickoffs for Falcons for first two games in 2007, with three touchbacks on four attempts, but was only 1-for-4 on field goals. Joined Broncos in December, with seven kickoffs for 67.3 average.

Kaylore
05-29-2008, 12:14 AM
I think it will be Prater and Kern. It will be interesting to see.

BroncosinDC
05-29-2008, 01:49 AM
Why not invest in more O linemen so all we really need is an ok place kicker and an awesome guy to kick off...preferably no where near anyone named Hester.

worm
05-29-2008, 03:30 AM
"...But there's a lot of talent, no doubt about it," said Sam Paulescu, who punted in last year's season finale after a stint in the Dallas Cowboys' camp. "We're probably the youngest group in the league, but I definitely feel we're one of the most talented...."[/QUOTE]

Who the hells cares that as a group they are 'one of the most talent'? Its not like Denver can play all five at once...and you won't see all five on the roster\PS.

This is your typical feel good piece about two positions that should be taken more seriously....if not by the reporters and fans then by the owner\coaches.

Course Beantown will tell you how it isn't important which kicker you trot out there. I hope he is right...Denver is not good enough right now to not have a pressure kicker.

K\P positions better not cost the Broncos a playoff spot in '08.

FireFly
05-29-2008, 03:58 AM
"
K\P positions better not cost the Broncos a playoff spot in '08.

But FG's can quickly add up and in the end they might do just that.

I have a feeling I could find myself quite annoyed this season not only if we miss the playoffs because of kickers but just losing the close ones

Beantown Bronco
05-29-2008, 08:16 AM
Course Beantown will tell you how it isn't important which kicker you trot out there. I hope he is right...Denver is not good enough right now to not have a pressure kicker.

:notworthy

That One Guy
05-29-2008, 08:32 AM
How is the Baugher guy a first year pro when he spent time on practice squads last year and went to NFL-E?

I didn't realize Prater was the kick everything guy from ATL last year... If I recall correctly, he generally sucked at everything too.

Dedhed
05-29-2008, 08:54 AM
At the very least this will make the 4th qtr of pre-season games a little more interesting.

Kaylore
05-29-2008, 09:14 AM
I believe we will lose at least one game this season to missed field goals. Hopefully I'm wrong. :(

Beantown Bronco
05-29-2008, 09:36 AM
People here really seem to be forgetting Elam's early years in which he had his share of struggles. In his first five years in the league he missed 40 field goals and his field goal percentage was under 80%. And he only averaged about 2 attempts per game in that time.......so I wonder how many games he may have cost the Broncos in those seasons? Yet they stuck with him and look at how his career is viewed now.

Ziggy
05-29-2008, 09:48 AM
I'm predicting Hartley will be the kicker when it's all said and done. Prater can't kick a ball in the ocean from a ship sitting in the middle of it. He's 1/4 in the NFL, and was 26/40 in college. Strong leg, absolutely no accuracy.

Beantown Bronco
05-29-2008, 09:57 AM
I'm predicting Hartley will be the kicker when it's all said and done. Prater can't kick a ball in the ocean from a ship sitting in the middle of it. He's 1/4 in the NFL, and was 26/40 in college. Strong leg, absolutely no accuracy.

He's never been coached on how to kick fgs by a real special teams guy. He's getting that coaching now and, judging by the comments in recent articles about him finally having a real approach, technique and form to his kicking, he seems to be benefitting. I wouldn't judge him by anything he did in Atlanta. That was just one game.

Ziggy
05-29-2008, 10:27 AM
He's never been coached on how to kick fgs by a real special teams guy. He's getting that coaching now and, judging by the comments in recent articles about him finally having a real approach, technique and form to his kicking, he seems to be benefitting. I wouldn't judge him by anything he did in Atlanta. That was just one game.

I'm judging him from his career as a kicker throughout college and the pros. He's obviously good in practice, or he wouldn't have stuck around with those numbers. Are you telling me that Atlanta didn't have a real special teams guy to coach him up?

Kaylore
05-29-2008, 10:30 AM
I wouldn't mind two rookies if they both really work hard and win the spot. Just put the best guy out there. I hope we have a lot of field goal opportunities in preseason to see how these guys test under fire.

Hogan11
05-29-2008, 10:32 AM
I'm so sick of people whining about Elam's departure.

Beantown Bronco
05-29-2008, 10:42 AM
I'm judging him from his career as a kicker throughout college and the pros. He's obviously good in practice, or he wouldn't have stuck around with those numbers. Are you telling me that Atlanta didn't have a real special teams guy to coach him up?

I discount his college years because he was primarily the teams punter for awhile. He actually led the NCAA in punting his sophomore year with a 47.9 yard average! Obviously, when you handle punts, kickoffs and field goals, it's going to be tough to perfect your kicking technique.

And sure....Atlanta had special teams coaches, but he was only on the team for about two weeks, so how much specialty coaching do you really think he got?

Ziggy
05-29-2008, 10:52 AM
I discount his college years because he was primarily the teams punter for awhile. He actually led the NCAA in punting his sophomore year with a 47.9 yard average! Obviously, when you handle punts, kickoffs and field goals, it's going to be tough to perfect your kicking technique.

And sure....Atlanta had special teams coaches, but he was only on the team for about two weeks, so how much specialty coaching do you really think he got?


He was picked up by the Lions as an UDFA on May 6, 2006. He was with them through training camp and preseason, and was released on August 27th. He was with the Miami Dolphins from 1/11/07 to 08/27 07. If you want to tell me that he sucked in college because he also handled punts and kickoffs that's fine. Just don't try to sell me on the whole , "Well he's never been coached on how to kicked FG's by a real special teams guy." It's simply not true.

Beantown Bronco
05-29-2008, 11:03 AM
He was picked up by the Lions as an UDFA on May 6, 2006. He was with them through training camp and preseason, and was released on August 27th. He was with the Miami Dolphins from 1/11/07 to 08/27 07. If you want to tell me that he sucked in college because he also handled punts and kickoffs that's fine. Just don't try to sell me on the whole , "Well he's never been coached on how to kicked FG's by a real special teams guy." It's simply not true.

So he bounced around with a few teams for a few months.....half of which were months with no contact between the coaches and the players. And who knows how much attention and coaching he even received as an undrafted guy who was brought in to possibly punt or just handle kickoffs? You can't presume that an undrafted kicker who was on a roster from mid-January through August got extensive coaching for 90+% of that. He said himself in a recent interview that this was the first time he's ever been taught field goal kicking technique. That tells me that these other teams didn't view him as a field goal kicker when they brought him in. They may or may not have had him compete for the spot, but I'm guessing he was primarily brought in to those places to kick off. Just as he was here. He was here for over 6 months before they began to coach him on how to kick field goals. Why do you just assume something else was going on in those other places?

SonOfLe-loLang
05-29-2008, 11:15 AM
How is the Baugher guy a first year pro when he spent time on practice squads last year and went to NFL-E?

I didn't realize Prater was the kick everything guy from ATL last year... If I recall correctly, he generally sucked at everything too.

He wasn't. Youre thinking of Koenen or whatever his name was.

Ziggy
05-29-2008, 11:51 AM
So he bounced around with a few teams for a few months.....half of which were months with no contact between the coaches and the players. And who knows how much attention and coaching he even received as an undrafted guy who was brought in to possibly punt or just handle kickoffs? You can't presume that an undrafted kicker who was on a roster from mid-January through August got extensive coaching for 90+% of that. He said himself in a recent interview that this was the first time he's ever been taught field goal kicking technique. That tells me that these other teams didn't view him as a field goal kicker when they brought him in. They may or may not have had him compete for the spot, but I'm guessing he was primarily brought in to those places to kick off. Just as he was here. He was here for over 6 months before they began to coach him on how to kick field goals. Why do you just assume something else was going on in those other places?



Professional career

[edit] 2006
Prater was signed by the Detroit Lions as an undrafted free agent on May 4, 2006. He made field goals of 22, 44 and 48 yards in a preseason game against the Cleveland Browns, but had little chance of beating out veteran incumbent Jason Hanson and subsequently released August 27. He spent the rest of the season as a free agent but did have workouts with the Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings.


[edit] 2007
Prater was signed to a future contract by the Miami Dolphins on January 11, 2007. He was released by the team on August 27, as fellow placekicker Jay Feely won the job. Shortly thereafter, Prater signed a contract with the Atlanta Falcons and beat out Billy Cundiff for the job. Including the Falcons' preseason finale, Prater missed at least one field goal in three games played with the Falcons. Prater missed two field goals against the Jacksonville Jaguars in week two and was cut on September 18th. The Falcons signed Morten Andersen as his replacement.


Looks to me like he got his shot at being a field goal kicker in those places, and just didn't pan out. He was kicking field goals in the preseason, and competing for that position. Why do you just assume otherwise?

smalltowngrll
05-29-2008, 11:57 AM
People here really seem to be forgetting Elam's early years in which he had his share of struggles. In his first five years in the league he missed 40 field goals and his field goal percentage was under 80%. And he only averaged about 2 attempts per game in that time.......so I wonder how many games he may have cost the Broncos in those seasons? Yet they stuck with him and look at how his career is viewed now.

I don't think that people have forgotten his first few years and struggles, it's that we've remembered them. We know what it's going to be like and we will miss the reliability he gave us last year and many years prior to that. And, I just wish we would have tried a little harder to keep him!

broncosteven
05-29-2008, 12:08 PM
I believe we will lose at least one game this season to missed field goals. Hopefully I'm wrong. :(

We will know how it felt to be a KFC fan last year when they saw their kicker come out on the field the 1st 4 games.

Beantown Bronco
05-29-2008, 12:12 PM
Looks to me like he got his shot at being a field goal kicker in those places, and just didn't pan out. He was kicking field goals in the preseason, and competing for that position. Why do you just assume otherwise?

Read your own write-ups.

He made field goals of 22, 44 and 48 yards in a preseason game against the Cleveland Browns, but had little chance of beating out veteran incumbent Jason Hanson

He was three for three with two field goals over 40 yards and was cut after one game. Didn't matter what he did. He had no shot at the spot from day one, so why do you think they spent any real time coaching him up? It would've been a waste of time.

And Miami? What a joke. Prater was signed early on to compete for the spot, but then they brought in Jay Feely early on in FA who was an established veteran coming off a year in which he hit 85% of his field goal attempts in New York (tough place to kick). It was no longer an open competition. No matter what Prater did....he was gone and they weren't going to invest any real time in him when they had an established guy like Feely making real money. His only chance was to stay on as a kickoff specialist and the team wasn't going to do that either.

Use common sense here. None of these teams invested real time or coaching in him. He has acknowledged as much already. What? You don't believe him?

broncosteven
05-29-2008, 12:47 PM
Anyone know where Jim Turner is?

Ziggy
05-29-2008, 02:18 PM
Read your own write-ups.

He made field goals of 22, 44 and 48 yards in a preseason game against the Cleveland Browns, but had little chance of beating out veteran incumbent Jason Hanson

He was three for three with two field goals over 40 yards and was cut after one game. Didn't matter what he did. He had no shot at the spot from day one, so why do you think they spent any real time coaching him up? It would've been a waste of time.

And Miami? What a joke. Prater was signed early on to compete for the spot, but then they brought in Jay Feely early on in FA who was an established veteran coming off a year in which he hit 85% of his field goal attempts in New York (tough place to kick). It was no longer an open competition. No matter what Prater did....he was gone and they weren't going to invest any real time in him when they had an established guy like Feely making real money. His only chance was to stay on as a kickoff specialist and the team wasn't going to do that either.

Use common sense here. None of these teams invested real time or coaching in him. He has acknowledged as much already. What? You don't believe him?


We could argue this all day. I have a hard time believing that a team's coaching staff is going to completely ignore one of the kickers in camp. If I was trying to make it as a kicker in the NFL, and kicked as poorly as he has both in the pros and college, I'd make excuses too. If he makes the team as our field goal kicker and does even an average job, I'll be surprised. Just my opinion.

hades
05-29-2008, 04:05 PM
Anyone know where Jim Turner is?

I liked his on side kick attempts, he had that "bounce" you want!

broncolife
05-30-2008, 02:15 AM
I am expecting to see some blocked punts this year especially if we see the punt team block like they did last year.

broncocalijohn
05-30-2008, 03:38 AM
I believe we will lose at least one game this season to missed field goals. Hopefully I'm wrong. :(

We are totally screwed! Mason now looks like a pick we could/should have made last year. Elam was clutch when it was needed last year. Let us start the prayer of actually scoring 6 points in the red zone and you better be able to count on any of those PK to make an Extra Point. THere are going to be some Po'd offensive players if we drive and cant make a 30 yard field goal.