Attention Gearheads! Do performance chips really work?

[Hogan11]

The question is self-explanitory. You see them all over ebay...as someone who has to commute to work 80 miles roundtrip, I'm lookin' for anything to help save on the old Celica's MPG. (currently about 34 HWY). So, without taking the chance on screwing up my engine, do these things really work or am I looking at some bullshat like the infamous Rust Evader here?

Don't be a dicknose and give me some smartass answer, save the comedy for other threads, serious relpies only please. Thanks in advance.

[Cito Pelon]

I don't know, but I'm also curious. I watch these gearhead programs on the Spike channel, and they shill those programmable chips, but I don't know anybody that has replaced the factory chip. I'd love to get more HP and get more MPG at the same time, but like you until I know the reliability aspect I figure if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

[Florida_Bronco]

Short answer - Yes.

It really depends on your car, the factory computer tuning, and the company that offers the chip, but for most applications the answer would be yes.

I'm a Mustang guy, so I'm not sure what the situation for a Celica would be, but I know there is a performance aftermarket out there for them. Try looking into SCT, Superchips, Diablo and Hypertech as they all have good reps in the Mustang arena and should have some offerings for the Toyota guys.

Personally I'd avoid mail order chips. You might check out some Toyota/Celica forums and see what they recommend. There might be a tuner local to you who can personally evaluate your car.

Edit - It's virtually impossible to damage your engine with a chip. The only thing I can think of off hand would be leaning out the air/fuel ratio too much, but you would likely hear the pinging before any real damage occured. As long as you stay with a reputable company you should be OK.

[Cito Pelon]

Short answer - Yes.

It really depends on your car, the factory computer tuning, and the company that offers the chip, but for most applications the answer would be yes.

I'm a Mustang guy, so I'm not sure what the situation for a Celica would be, but I know there is a performance aftermarket out there for them. Try looking into SCT, Superchips, Diablo and Hypertech as they all have good reps in the Mustang arena and should have some offerings for the Toyota guys.

Personally I'd avoid mail order chips. You might check out some Toyota/Celica forums and see what they recommend. There might be a tuner local to you who can personally evaluate your car.

Edit - It's virtually impossible to damage your engine with a chip. The only thing I can think of off hand would be leaning out the air/fuel ratio too much, but you would likely hear the pinging before any real damage occured. As long as you stay with a reputable company you should be OK.

Mustangs, eh? You're a coupe guy apparently, I'm a sedan guy. Lexus GS300 is my latest fast sedan. I like the fast sedans, but it has to be RWD. I don't like the understeer FWD has, the FWD sedans feel too heavy braking into corners, you can't point the car where you want to go, the car points you. I'll check out the names you mentioned, thanks for the info.

[Florida_Bronco]

Mustangs, eh? You're a coupe guy apparently, I'm a sedan guy. Lexus GS300 is my latest fast sedan. I like the fast sedans, but it has to be RWD. I don't like the understeer FWD has, the FWD sedans feel too heavy braking into corners, you can't point the car where you want to go, the car points you. I'll check out the names you mentioned, thanks for the info.

Yeah I'm definetly a coupe guy, and I hate FWD as well.

[Goobzilla]

I just bought the wife a Charger Daytona and that car is sweet, 1st 4 door car I've ever owned and I'm almost 40. One day when she's not looking I'll add a CAI and a Diablo Predator.

[Cito Pelon]

Yeah I'm definetly a coupe guy, and I hate FWD as well.

I don't get you coupe guys. Fast luxury RWD sedans are available that can accelerate, brake, corner superbly. Mercedes E's and S's, BMW 5's, Lexus GS's, those are kickass machines. You get luxury and kickass performance at the same time.

[tsiguy96]

I don't get you coupe guys. Fast luxury RWD sedans are available that can accelerate, brake, corner superbly. Mercedes E's and S's, BMW 5's, Lexus GS's, those are kickass machines. You get luxury and kickass performance at the same time.

i own an 03 mustang gt. i dont think you "get it"

id rather have my mustang over a bmw or lexus.

[Cito Pelon]

i own an 03 mustang gt. i dont think you "get it"

id rather have my mustang over a bmw or lexus.

I get it. You're 'get it' and my 'get it' are two different things. To me there is no way on this earth I'd trade my GS300 for a 2003 Mustang GT. I could smoke that GT of yours in a road race easy.

[watermock]

Chips work, we put some in our john Deere tractors w/o voiding warr. Auth part.

[Jason7730]

Yep, the chip works real good in my Chevy Silverado. (hypertec). I do like Mustangs, however, my BMW 540I w/ the six speed M-sport package really does kick some serious ass.

[Dukes]

Mustangs, eh? You're a coupe guy apparently, I'm a sedan guy. Lexus GS300 is my latest fast sedan. I like the fast sedans, but it has to be RWD. I don't like the understeer FWD has, the FWD sedans feel too heavy braking into corners, you can't point the car where you want to go, the car points you. I'll check out the names you mentioned, thanks for the info.

Props for the GS300, those are awesome. I'd die for a IS350. But, I'm a mustang guy as well. Sorry to hijack the thread hogan, I don't know enough about chips to give accurate advice.

[tsiguy96]

I get it. You're 'get it' and my 'get it' are two different things. To me there is no way on this earth I'd trade my GS300 for a 2003 Mustang GT. I could smoke that GT of yours in a road race easy.

thats great, and my 96 eagle talon would smoke anything you will ever own, but thats not the argument, is it? besides, my mustang sounds better :strong:

[Cito Pelon]

Yep, the chip works real good in my Chevy Silverado. (hypertec). I do like Mustangs, however, my BMW 540I w/ the six speed M-sport package really does kick some serious ass.

BMW 5's are badass machines. That's one of the finest machines made on this planet. When I hit the road with my GS300 I know there's only a few mass-production machines that can whoop it, and the BMW 5's are one of them. My GS300 has the 17-inch wheels, so that car can race with BMW's.

[Cito Pelon]

Props for the GS300, those are awesome. I'd die for a IS350. But, I'm a mustang guy as well. Sorry to hijack the thread hogan, I don't know enough about chips to give accurate advice.

IS350 is too small. No good rear seat, not enough trunk space. I like a big sedan with kickass acceleration, braking, reliability. That criteria narrows it down a lot. Then you add in RWD, and that narrows it down further. Then you add in I like straight-sixes, that narrows it down to BMW and pre-2006 Lexus GS300's. So I found a nice reliability-king used Lexus GS300. The BMW 5's scared me from the reliability standpoint since I waas buying used.

The GS with the 17-inch wheels is badass. The stock 16-incher setup I think would make it a marginal as a competitor with BMW and Mercedes.

[Cito Pelon]

thats great, and my 96 eagle talon would smoke anything you will ever own, but thats not the argument, is it? besides, my mustang sounds better :strong:

Those Mustang V8's have a distinctive note. I can tell one from out of sight, same with the Ducati twins, distinctive note.

[hades]

i own an 03 mustang gt. i dont think you "get it"

id rather have my mustang over a bmw or lexus.

I use to say that, until I got a BMW.

I had an 01 GT vert, with a built motor and twin turbo's. I have not regreted it once since I got rid of it and went with the BMW 325 vert.

Sure the power isn't even close, but the BMW handles 10 million times better, corners like it is on rails, brakes stop like a MoFo, and it gets twice the gas mileage.

of course now the car is in the shop. Some stuipid 15 year old girl was joyriding her Grandma's car and turned left in front of me. iI I was in the Stang, I really doubt I would have walked away from it with no injuries. I was going 35 and barley hit the brakes when we met. My front headlight hit dead center of her Camry. I think the old Stang would not have faired as well as the BMW did.

Sad thing for me is, I just got it a couple months ago, just made the second payment on it.


Dangit, back to the original post. Yes chips can help, but if you get more HP, you will not get better MPG cuz you will not be able to keep your foot out of it!

[Florida_Bronco]

I don't get you coupe guys. Fast luxury RWD sedans are available that can accelerate, brake, corner superbly. Mercedes E's and S's, BMW 5's, Lexus GS's, those are kickass machines.

True, but at what cost? I paid $2700 for my 1994 GT back in 2004 and other than the paint starting to show it's age, the car was dang near perfect. Over 220,000 miles on the original engine and she still runs great. Not to mention the aftermarket and affordable mods for the Mustang.

You get luxury and kickass performance at the same time.

I guess I'm just not a luxury guy. The Mustang, with it's leather interior and Mach 460 stereo is plenty nice for me. Plus, I don't have any kids or anything so no need for a 4 door.

[Florida_Bronco]

I could smoke that GT of yours in a road race easy.

A couple grand in suspension mods and that Mustang will handle as well as 99% of cars on the road. Companies like Griggs, Maximum Motorsports, Steeda, Saleen and BMR have all come out with excellent suspension kits for the Mustangs.

[loborugger]

Comparing a Lexus GS 300 - what about 50 grand when it was new - to a Mustang GT (what, about 25 grand, depending on options) is not going to be very flattering for the Stang. The Lexus is a luxury sedan designed to attract a more mature, all around performance crowd while the Stang is for the younger crowd. All they really want is something in their price range that makes more than just noise when they push down on the throttle. Mustang owners are also much more likely to be turn-wrenches that actually enjoy modifying their cars and getting more outta them.

Different cars for different markets.

[Florida_Bronco]

Comparing a Lexus GS 300 - what about 50 grand when it was new - to a Mustang GT (what, about 25 grand, depending on options) is not going to be very flattering for the Stang. The Lexus is a luxury sedan designed to attract a more mature, all around performance crowd while the Stang is for the younger crowd. All they really want is something in their price range that makes more than just noise when they push down on the throttle. Mustang owners are also much more likely to be turn-wrenches that actually enjoy modifying their cars and getting more outta them.

Different cars for different markets.

Excellent points. I'm sure that Lexus is a great machine, but the Mustang is a better fit for me and what I want to do.

[MOCRUSH]

Just go with a little grocery getter from Honda like mine. 25 mpg if you can avoid sticking your foot in it. Did somebody mention road race? NSX baby!

[crazyhorse]

Generally performance gains you get from a chip will give you better performance on one end, and you may lose performance on the other. Not always. Most of the time though, you wont notice much. Because the increase in horse power can only be felt when you have the car wound out riding it hard. Becaue of that, you will lose dependability.

I'm not saying not to get one. Just dont expect a completelt different car. It will still be pretty much the same.

[crazyhorse]

Luxury peformance?

Baaaaa hahahaha.

I would rather turn a wrench on a mustang than drive any luxury car on the market.

There is nothing luxurious about a true performance automobile. You cant get a ride like a lexus with handling like a true road racer. A race car rides like a friggen log truck. It has to. Just because you think your BMW is fast doen't mean it's fast by someone elses standards.

I'll take a 50,000 dollar Shelby over any luxury performance car you want to park next to it, I will guarantee your car will not measure up favorably.

Here's a little project of mine. No seat warmers. But it has a racing suspension. One that will hang with a BMW and then some. No GPS. But it has a 4 wheel disc brake system that will rival any car on the road. No power seats, but it has better acceleration than your lexus.

I still have quite a bit of work to do. But then....that's the fun of being a true car enthusiast. I could have easily just taken my money down to the dealership and bought myself an "out of the box racer". But what fun is that?

I will get more satisfaction driving this car than anyone could ever get from soimething they bought at the dealership. It may not have all the bells and whistles. But I designed and built every part of this car. It's all me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZT_L8FRsgo

[Cito Pelon]

I use to say that, until I got a BMW.

I had an 01 GT vert, with a built motor and twin turbo's. I have not regreted it once since I got rid of it and went with the BMW 325 vert.

Sure the power isn't even close, but the BMW handles 10 million times better, corners like it is on rails, brakes stop like a MoFo, and it gets twice the gas mileage.

of course now the car is in the shop. Some stuipid 15 year old girl was joyriding her Grandma's car and turned left in front of me. iI I was in the Stang, I really doubt I would have walked away from it with no injuries. I was going 35 and barley hit the brakes when we met. My front headlight hit dead center of her Camry. I think the old Stang would not have faired as well as the BMW did.

Sad thing for me is, I just got it a couple months ago, just made the second payment on it.


Dangit, back to the original post. Yes chips can help, but if you get more HP, you will not get better MPG cuz you will not be able to keep your foot out of it!

Braking is a big deal. Braking power is one of the biggest deals I look for in a car. Acceleration I love it, braking I love it. You can't attack a corner properly if you don't have tremendous braking, IMO.

[Cito Pelon]

True, but at what cost? I paid $2700 for my 1994 GT back in 2004 and other than the paint starting to show it's age, the car was dang near perfect. Over 220,000 miles on the original engine and she still runs great. Not to mention the aftermarket and affordable mods for the Mustang.



I guess I'm just not a luxury guy. The Mustang, with it's leather interior and Mach 460 stereo is plenty nice for me. Plus, I don't have any kids or anything so no need for a 4 door.

The cost is a problem. But, a sport luxury sedan, one of the finest handling, braking, accelerating cars on the road, you pay the premium. Plus you get the best of luxury. They put the finest materials in a sport luxury sedan, that's the top of the line for every manufacturer.

Yeah, you gotta buy 'em used.

[Florida_Bronco]

The cost is a problem. But, a sport luxury sedan, one of the finest handling, braking, accelerating cars on the road, you pay the premium. Plus you get the best of luxury. They put the finest materials in a sport luxury sedan, that's the top of the line for every manufacturer.

Yeah, you gotta buy 'em used.

I myself would rather have the Mustang, throw a few grand in mods at it and be happy with the results.

[crazyhorse]

Cito,

With respect, you are grossly underestimating todays mustangs. As well as grossly overstating todays "luxury" cars.

Dont assume no one here knows anything about suspension and braking because they dont drive a BMW or a lexus.

Personally, those cars dont offer enough performance for the money to peak my interest. I can certainly appreciate thier offering. But they are not the pinnacle of performance by any means.

[Cito Pelon]

I myself would rather have the Mustang, throw a few grand in mods at it and be happy with the results.

You're a coupe guy, I'm a sedan guy. No doubt we both love acceleration and competition. Enjoy yourself, youngster. You'll be remembering us sedan guys when you end up buying one. You're welcome in advance. :)

[Hogan11]

Thanks to everyone who stayed with the topic.

What's the general opinion on this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REAL-PERFORMANCE-CHIP-TOYOTA-CELICA-90-05-FUEL-SAVER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33597QQihZ008QQit emZ180244816292QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[hades]

Luxury peformance?

Baaaaa hahahaha.

I would rather turn a wrench on a mustang than drive any luxury car on the market.

There is nothing luxurious about a true performance automobile. You cant get a ride like a lexus with handling like a true road racer. A race car rides like a friggen log truck. It has to. Just because you think your BMW is fast doen't mean it's fast by someone elses standards.

I'll take a 50,000 dollar Shelby over any luxury performance car you want to park next to it, I will guarantee your car will not measure up favorably.

Here's a little project of mine. No seat warmers. But it has a racing suspension. One that will hang with a BMW and then some. No GPS. But it has a 4 wheel disc brake system that will rival any car on the road. No power seats, but it has better acceleration than your lexus.

I still have quite a bit of work to do. But then....that's the fun of being a true car enthusiast. I could have easily just taken my money down to the dealership and bought myself an "out of the box racer". But what fun is that?

I will get more satisfaction driving this car than anyone could ever get from soimething they bought at the dealership. It may not have all the bells and whistles. But I designed and built every part of this car. It's all me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZT_L8FRsgo

I'm a huge Mustang fan, but the Shelby is a pig of a car. It weighs waaaay to much.

You can take any car, throw money into it and make it fast. I saw a video of a Saturn with a turbo that was blasting away all sorts of sports cars. There was a guy with a Dodge minivan and a turbo that was running 10 second 1/4 miles.

I'd take an M6 over a Stang any day, but then again, they cost a bit more.

Stang sounds good BTW! :notworthy

[Cito Pelon]

Comparing a Lexus GS 300 - what about 50 grand when it was new - to a Mustang GT (what, about 25 grand, depending on options) is not going to be very flattering for the Stang. The Lexus is a luxury sedan designed to attract a more mature, all around performance crowd while the Stang is for the younger crowd. All they really want is something in their price range that makes more than just noise when they push down on the throttle. Mustang owners are also much more likely to be turn-wrenches that actually enjoy modifying their cars and getting more outta them.

Different cars for different markets.

Hell, I paid $18k for the GS300. It's a 2001.

Hogan, I don't know. With all due respect, you buy it and tell me. I'd love to enhance my engine performance. Hey you're a cold weather man, do you run synthetic oil?

[Cito Pelon]

I'm a huge Mustang fan, but the Shelby is a pig of a car. It weighs waaaay to much.

You can take any car, throw money into it and make it fast. I saw a video of a Saturn with a turbo that was blasting away all sorts of sports cars. There was a guy with a Dodge minivan and a turbo that was running 10 second 1/4 miles.

I'd take an M6 over a Stang any day, but then again, they cost a bit more.

Stang sounds good BTW! :notworthy

I have crazyhorse on ignore, so I'm glad you posted that. I'll take crazy off ignore and see what he has had to say since he knows a little something about vehicles apparently. Yeah, M6 and all those offshore brands cost some, but those are your kickass cars. I like badass machines, and my money is in a sophisticated machine like a Lexus. I had a hell of a time replacing the shocks on it, since it's struts all 4 wheels, but that's the price you pay for a sophisticated car.

[Dudeskey]

I've considered one for the Accord and they're generally pretty safe. Two things to keep in mind though: 1) with most manufacturers, you risk voiding the warranty. my father is waiting for the warranty to expire on his '06 Audi A4 before installing one. 2) Most require you to run Premium unleaded. Your Engine's more likely to 'ping' if you don't.

[Florida_Bronco]

Thanks to everyone who stayed with the topic.

What's the general opinion on this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REAL-PERFORMANCE-CHIP-TOYOTA-CELICA-90-05-FUEL-SAVER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33597QQihZ008QQit emZ180244816292QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I dunno Hogan, their claims sound pretty outlandish, and I've never heard of that company.

[Hogan11]

Well, a couple of people I work with are gonna try them, so I think they'll be my Guinea pigs....I was just wondering if anyone had any prior experience with them. Thanks for the replies.

[bronco610]

Hey Hogan, Crazy was about the closest on this issue. any time you add to one aspect of an engine you take away from another. The smaller more efficient japanese models are pretty close to the maximum fuel efficiency when they role off the assembly line. The only real way to change any engine significantly is to re-engineer it. ie. different heads, bored cylinders ect. Most of the chips developed over time for factory engines were created to make the car perform more like a sport car and less like a production model.
Because of the mechanical components in an engine are tied in with the electronic components there is only so much a chip can do. For instance a chip cannot change valve timing only spark timing. Also because of epa issues the computer will only allow a certain amount of adjustment to the fuel/air mixture. You will note that the advertising is mostly concerned with trucks and RVs when it comes to the increases in power. If you lean out an engine it is definetly doing somethin internally to another part of the engine such as heating the valves over factory spec. My suggestion is to contact a local dealership and speak to one of their techs. In my area they have been very helpful.

[El Guapo]

I don't get you coupe guys. Fast luxury RWD sedans are available that can accelerate, brake, corner superbly. Mercedes E's and S's, BMW 5's, Lexus GS's, those are kickass machines. You get luxury and kickass performance at the same time.

Dont forget the new G8 that is getting rave reviews:

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/08.pontiac.g8.gt/08.pontiac.g8.burnout.500.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=124876


And so we're smitten. Won over. The Australian-built 2008 Pontiac G8 GT is the best Pontiac since John Z. invented the GTO. No, not that GTO. The first GTO in 1964. You know, the one Ronny and the Daytonas immortalized in song. The one that started the whole muscle car thing. The Tiger.

No, we're not kidding.

The G8 GT is better than the 6000 STE, the Bonneville SSEi, the Grand Prix GTP, the G6 GXP and the Aztek UGLY. It even makes the Solstice feel like a half-ass effort. When it hits dealers in early March, the 40,000 examples of the G8 being shipped in from Down Under will reinvent Pontiac along the way.

Pontiac needs a win and the G8 is it.

[COBronco 69]

More HP equals better economy if you drive it right.

Other things that help tremendously:

tire pressure
tire size
FEED THE ENGINE: more air, better exhaust
keep it tuned up and check it regularly

[DarkHorse]

The question is self-explanitory. You see them all over ebay...as someone who has to commute to work 80 miles roundtrip, I'm lookin' for anything to help save on the old Celica's MPG. (currently about 34 HWY). So, without taking the chance on screwing up my engine, do these things really work or am I looking at some bullshat like the infamous Rust Evader here?

Don't be a dicknose and give me some smartass answer, save the comedy for other threads, serious relpies only please. Thanks in advance.

All the chips are doing is reprogramming the timing tables and air/fuel ratios. To be honest I would think that they're cutting timing back (also cuts performance) and would be leaning the car out to get better gas mileage. The downside to leaner the car out is that it's now running on the ragged edge of detonation BUT - it's using less fuel LOL.

The short answer is that NO the 'off the shelf' chips are garbage, throwing money down the drain. A proper dyno tune would be the way to go albeit it's much more expensive.

My dyno tune on my race car was $500, of course it didn't cost me a dime because the shop sponsors the car. At any rate, having it on the rollers and tuned is the only way to go - safe and reliable.

My old Z28 I used to tune myself with a laptop, Tunercat and the dyno.

[DarkHorse]

BTW for what it's worth - Crazyhorse and I are the only 2 true gearheads on this site that I know of. I'm not sure if he races his car but I know he's into the musclecar/performance cars.....

I race mine, have been racing since I was 16 (35 now) and i'm an ASE certified tech (expired) - I do all of my own work except trans rebuilds.


My single turbo T67mm 306cid Mustang runs in the mid 10's and gets around 22mpg highway with the OD trans and meager 3.55 gearing on 28" tires. Just a tad over 10k invested in the car and it gets better gas mileage than my daily driven Explorer - yet puts roughly 450 more horsepower to the ground :notworthy

[edgemyster]

Personally, those cars dont offer enough performance for the money to peak my interest. I can certainly appreciate thier offering. But they are not the pinnacle of performance by any means.

Define what "enough performance" is... a 2005+ BMW M5/M6 will yield you 500hp stock.

A 2001 BMW M5 with 400hp stock can be bought in the mid-$20's.

[DarkHorse]

Define what "enough performance" is... a 2005+ BMW M5/M6 will yield you 500hp stock.

A 2001 BMW M5 with 400hp stock can be bought in the mid-$20's.

2005 BMW M5 makes 380 lb ft of torque - which is what gets a car moving. As attractive as horsepower is, it's only a factor after 5252rpm - up until that point TORQUE is what gets the car moving. Where do you spend most of your driving? Above 5252rpm or below it?

A car that weighs 4000lbs and puts 380tq (flywheel, maybe 330 to the tire) isn't performing that well IMO - but, that's a racers opinion.

For a luxury vehicle they're certainly impressive.

[jayman_37]

has anyone ever heard of those cars that you can put a water pack in?

I guess it is supposed to use HHO gas in your car and use the hydrogen to double your gas mileage. It is a kit that turns your car into a hybrid with water and gas. Has anyone heard anything about this?

I think it would be awesome if true. What do you people think that are smarter than me?

[Flex Gunmetal]

2005 BMW M5 makes 380 lb ft of torque - which is what gets a car moving. As attractive as horsepower is, it's only a factor after 5252rpm - up until that point TORQUE is what gets the car moving. Where do you spend most of your driving? Above 5252rpm or below it?

A car that weighs 4000lbs and puts 380tq (flywheel, maybe 330 to the tire) isn't performing that well IMO - but, that's a racers opinion.

For a luxury vehicle they're certainly impressive.

Drive one, they are still fantastic cars by todays standards. We have a number of customers who own them and have difficulties upgrading.
They are AMAZING cars for how far they have depreciated.
We primarily deal in BMW Audi and Mercedes service, but we have built a number of race 911s and tuned some single turbo 930 3.3s to 530+ hp.
http://www.poudresportscar.com/
We'll have the SC'd 996 up soon, 420hp.

[Hogan11]

I appreciate all the feedback on this....I've decided against it for the moment. Others I work with are gonna try it out, so I'll sit back and see what happens with them.

Thanks again all :thumbs: