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KCStud
05-25-2008, 10:12 PM
Anybody wanna take a shot at the AFC West Standings at the end of the season?

BroncoMan4ever
05-25-2008, 10:23 PM
San Diego 12-4
Denver 12-4
Oakland 7-9
KC 5-11

i will say san diego will win the division after splitting the season series with Denver, simply because they will beat Denver by a bigger margin than Denver beats San Diego by.

theAPAOps5
05-25-2008, 10:29 PM
San Diego 13-3
Denver 10-6
Oakland 8-8
KC 2-14

400HZ
05-25-2008, 10:30 PM
San Diego 13-3
Denver 8-8
Oakland 6-10
Kansas City 6-10

KCStud
05-25-2008, 10:45 PM
hhmmm..I don't see KC in last place behind the Faiders. I think we all agree SD is the favorite.

SD 12-4
DEN10-6
KC 6-10
OAK 5-11

theAPAOps5
05-25-2008, 10:47 PM
It all depends on how the players Al Davis over spent for pan out. They have arguably the best DB tandem in the NFL and a pretty good defense. I could see KC finishing above Oakland.

KC does have a bright future though if this last draft pans out.

KCStud
05-25-2008, 11:04 PM
It all depends on how the players Al Davis over spent for pan out. They have arguably the best DB tandem in the NFL and a pretty good defense. I could see KC finishing above Oakland.

KC does have a bright future though if this last draft pans out.

To be honest, I see teams running all over the Faiders this season. They lost Warren Sapp to retirement and that's really gonna hurt them.
I think them drafting McFadden over Dorsey was a huge mistake. Dorsey would have made their defense top 5 no doubt. The Faiders were also 6th in the NFL in rush offense and 31st in rush defense. They have an impressive Justin Fargas and highly rated Michael Bush.

I think KC has so many question marks, but I do believe that this could be KC's best draft class ever. I think Albert should have few problems playing LT and Dorsey is a gem. Flowers and Charles are steals where they were picked IMO. Also players like Will Franklin, Barry Richardson or Brian Johnston could be steals.

KC has quite a bit of talent, but it's raw talen that's gonna take a year or two to gel together. I like the direction KC is going tho

theAPAOps5
05-25-2008, 11:12 PM
To be honest, I see teams running all over the Faiders this season. They lost Warren Sapp to retirement and that's really gonna hurt them.
I think them drafting McFadden over Dorsey was a huge mistake. Dorsey would have made their defense top 5 no doubt. The Faiders were also 6th in the NFL in rush offense and 31st in rush defense. They have an impressive Justin Fargas and highly rated Michael Bush.

I think KC has so many question marks, but I do believe that this could be KC's best draft class ever. I think Albert should have few problems playing LT and Dorsey is a gem. Flowers and Charles are steals where they were picked IMO. Also players like Will Franklin, Barry Richardson or Brian Johnston could be steals.

KC has quite a bit of talent, but it's raw talen that's gonna take a year or two to gel together. I like the direction KC is going tho

KC actually did good with this past draft. I thought Peterson would screw up with all the picks they had. But it looks like the trade of Allen was really good for you guys. You really have reason to be optimistic with that draft class.

Inkana7
05-25-2008, 11:17 PM
To think Albert won't have any problems playing LT is naive at best. All Rookie LTs will struggle, and Albert isn't even a Tackle.

SoCalBronco
05-25-2008, 11:27 PM
hhmmm..I don't see KC in last place behind the Faiders. I think we all agree SD is the favorite.

SD 12-4
DEN10-6
KC 6-10
OAK 5-11

KC should be able to do better than 6 wins. I think the Chiefs will win about 9 this year.

tsiguy96
05-25-2008, 11:31 PM
To think Albert won't have any problems playing LT is naive at best. All Rookie LTs will struggle, and Albert isn't even a Tackle.

MOST rookie LTs struggle. tony ugoh and joe thomas dont apply :D

Kaylore
05-26-2008, 12:23 AM
KC should be able to do better than 6 wins. I think the Chiefs will win about 9 this year.

SoCal, every year you overestimate the Chiefs reality notwithstanding. I'm seriously going to go back and dig up all your Chief predictions. Every year you not only have them at least competitive but you often say they'll be better than us. What's the deal? What's with your constant fear of one of the most hapless franchises in all of football?

SoCalBronco
05-26-2008, 12:27 AM
SoCal, every year you overestimate the Chiefs reality notwithstanding. I'm seriously going to go back and dig up all your Chief predictions. Every year you not only have them at least competitive but you often say they'll be better than us. What's the deal? What's with your constant fear of one of the most hapless franchises in all of football?

Haha...I KNEW you were going to say that dude, you have told me that every offseason. A few times I have overreated the Chiefs, but I do think this draft class will really help them out, even in the short term. Actually, the Chiefs have been doing rather well in the draft the last few years, especially at the top. Bowe was a super pick last year and Derrick Johnson is the best strongside linebacker in the division. They've still got major problems in a couple areas, but I think they'll be alright. I don't think Croyle is as bad as everyone says, he had to deal with alot of **** around him last year. I think he'll end up being somewhere between an average NFL QB to Drew Brees (that's his ceiling, not a bad ceiling to have).

TheChamp24
05-26-2008, 12:27 AM
It'll be interesting to see who stinks more, the Chiefs or the Raiders. Thats all I'm going to say.

watermock
05-26-2008, 12:39 AM
The Hornheads messed up again, they are worse at trades than Wash.

Why dont we get a gift too?

Oakland passing on Dorsey was a huge blunder.

Kaylore
05-26-2008, 12:44 AM
Haha...I KNEW you were going to say that dude, you have told me that every offseason. A few times I have overreated the Chiefs, but I do think this draft class will really help them out, even in the short term. Actually, the Chiefs have been doing rather well in the draft the last few years, especially at the top. Bowe was a super pick last year and Derrick Johnson is the best strongside linebacker in the division. They've still got major problems in a couple areas, but I think they'll be alright. I don't think Croyle is as bad as everyone says, he had to deal with alot of **** around him last year. I think he'll end up being somewhere between an average NFL QB to Drew Brees (that's his ceiling, not a bad ceiling to have).

You said they'd be good last year too! I'm going to spare you the old quotes of yours I've found and was going to post. I'll just say that your faith in them rarely jives with reality. It's so weird! I remember at camp the past years you'd look at me with this concerned gaze and say "the Chiefs scare me this year." They have had some decent years, but as long as Germ is their coach they'll never go anywhere.

True. Their draft at the top was awesome. Couple that with the fact that Carl seems to hit on his first round picks, and it's hard to say they're not headed in a positive direction. That said, even the best rookies take at least a year get going and right now they are just too young to look very good.

They have no running back either. I know that Albert will help, but he is not a LT and he's only one guy after they got rid of several and don't have much else. I really believe LJ is done too. Croyle is learning way to slowly and gets hurt to much and relapses into mistakes too often for me to ever think he could stand in the same room as Drew Brees' jock. Bowe is good. Tony G has some left in the tank. Derrick Johnson is solid. Then...what? No center, no kicker, no LT, one receiver, no safeties, no running game, an offense that makes the power I look like Air Coryell; I'm sorry man, but while I agree they will surprise some people, they will not win more than 7 games this year.

SoCalBronco
05-26-2008, 12:55 AM
You said they'd be good last year too! I'm going to spare you the old quotes of yours I've found and was going to post. I'll just say that your faith in them rarely jives with reality. It's so weird! I remember at camp the past years you'd look at me with this concerned gaze and say "the Chiefs scare me this year." They have had some decent years, but as long as Germ is their coach they'll never go anywhere.

True. Their draft at the top was awesome. Couple that with the fact that Carl seems to hit on his first round picks, and it's hard to say they're not headed in a positive direction. That said, even the best rookies take at least a year get going and right now they are just too young to look very good.

They have no running back either. I know that Albert will help, but he is not a LT and he's only one guy after they got rid of several and don't have much else. I really believe LJ is done too. Croyle is learning way to slowly and gets hurt to much and relapses into mistakes too often for me to ever think he could stand in the same room as Drew Brees' jock. Bowe is good. Tony G has some left in the tank. Derrick Johnson is solid. Then...what? No center, no kicker, no LT, one receiver, no safeties, no running game, an offense that makes the power I look like Air Coryell; I'm sorry man, but while I agree they will surprise some people, they will not win more than 7 games this year.

Chiefs | Team adds all-pro safety
Sat, 24 May 2008 17:49:04 -0700

Nick Athan, of Warpaint Illustrated, reports that the Kansas City Chiefs have added five time all pro safety Aaron Francisco to their roster.


Lock it up. Championship.

Kaylore
05-26-2008, 01:00 AM
Chiefs | Team adds all-pro safety
Sat, 24 May 2008 17:49:04 -0700

Nick Athan, of Warpaint Illustrated, reports that the Kansas City Chiefs have added five time all pro safety Aaron Francisco to their roster.


Lock it up. Championship.

I changed my mind. Chiefs are undefeated.

For the record:

Chargers: 11-5
Broncos: 11-5
Oakland: 7-9
Kansas City: 6-10

boltaneer
05-26-2008, 07:39 AM
San Diego 12 - 4
Denver 6-10
Oakland 6-10
KC 3-13

theAPAOps5
05-26-2008, 09:01 AM
Boltaneer come on you are a logical and good Chargers fan. Putting Denver at 6-10 is ludacrous. First of all Shanahan rarely has back to back losing seasons and doesn't regress.

I am not going to be all homer and say 13-3 but 10-6 to 8-8 is more realistic.

JLesSPE
05-26-2008, 09:08 AM
San Diego 11-5
Denver 11-5
Oakland 6-10
Kansas City 5-11

Tombstone RJ
05-26-2008, 09:22 AM
Chargers 12-4
Broncos 10-6
Chiefs 7-9
Raiders 4-12

rbackfactory80
05-26-2008, 09:38 AM
San Diego 11-5
Oakland 9-7
Denver 8-8
K.C. 7-9

NFLBRONCO
05-26-2008, 10:08 AM
Only sure thing in division is SD expect them to win afc west again. Denver I have no idea what to expect in 08 easy schedule or not. Oak can be a major mover in 08 if Russell plays good and I think McFadden will be good if he lives up to hype. KC will struggle still imo. One thing for sure we will get an idea of 08 Denver team the first 7 games of 08. I can see us going 2-5 thru 4-3. If we go 4-3 I think we should make playoffs if we avoid losses to teams we should beat. I syill have visions of Elam kicking a game winning FG against us :(.

SD 13-3
Oak 10-6
Den 8-8
KC 6-10

KCStud
05-26-2008, 10:20 AM
You said they'd be good last year too! I'm going to spare you the old quotes of yours I've found and was going to post. I'll just say that your faith in them rarely jives with reality. It's so weird! I remember at camp the past years you'd look at me with this concerned gaze and say "the Chiefs scare me this year." They have had some decent years, but as long as Germ is their coach they'll never go anywhere.

True. Their draft at the top was awesome. Couple that with the fact that Carl seems to hit on his first round picks, and it's hard to say they're not headed in a positive direction. That said, even the best rookies take at least a year get going and right now they are just too young to look very good.

They have no running back either. I know that Albert will help, but he is not a LT and he's only one guy after they got rid of several and don't have much else. I really believe LJ is done too. Croyle is learning way to slowly and gets hurt to much and relapses into mistakes too often for me to ever think he could stand in the same room as Drew Brees' jock. Bowe is good. Tony G has some left in the tank. Derrick Johnson is solid. Then...what? No center, no kicker, no LT, one receiver, no safeties, no running game, an offense that makes the power I look like Air Coryell; I'm sorry man, but while I agree they will surprise some people, they will not win more than 7 games this year.

I think this is the year Croyle finally has a chance to show what he has. Last season he was sacked again and again and again. Our RT Chris Terry was so horrible that we cut him before the season was even over. He gave up 14.5 sacks in 11 games. I think Albert, or anybody, is better than Terry.
Not sure why you think KC is weak at RB. I think they are deeper then they have been in a long time. LJ is starting. Then you have the speed back in Jamaal Charles who was at least IMO the best RB in the Big 12 last season. Then you have Kolby Smith, who had a few good games but was average. We also have Savage from OSU. He was very productive there.
As for the question marks, KC has been grooming Niswanger to play C for 2 seasons. He looked good when he got playing time last year before his knee was shredded. LT is obviously going to Albert who has all the measurables to play LT but just needs some experience.
KC drafted Will Franklin as the #2 or #3 WR. He was productive at Mizzou and was a good #2 WR for them. I think the Safety position is also deep too. Wesley is leaving thank god and Page is solid. Pollard still has some learning to do and we got a good value by drafting Dejaun Morgan in round 3.
It's basically just like I said. KC has talent on paper, but it needs to be proven and gelled together.

There were 2 big problems with KC last season.

1. We couldn't run the ball-28th in the NFL
2.We couldn't stop the run-30th in the NFL

I think getting Dorsey and getting deeper at RB will help those problems

Tombstone RJ
05-26-2008, 10:23 AM
I really don't see the faiders doing well. At least the chefs have a plan and stability in the front office and coaching staff. That goes a long way in trying to build a winner. The faid is throwing money around trying to win the Dan Snyder way (which is never lasting, nor does it work with such instability in the front office and the coaching carousel).

Russell is a complete unknown, McFadden is a complete unkown, their offensive line is not very good, the WRs are mediocre at best. All in all their offense is very suspect.

As for the faid's defense, it's a mystery too. FA acquisitions aside, it all still has to gel and with Kiffen and Davis not seeing eye-to-eye, I really see more chaos than anything.

Dukes
05-26-2008, 10:23 AM
San Diego 11-5
Denver 10-6
Oakland 6-10
Kansas City 5-11

TheChamp24
05-26-2008, 10:53 AM
I think this is the year Croyle finally has a chance to show what he has. Last season he was sacked again and again and again. Our RT Chris Terry was so horrible that we cut him before the season was even over. He gave up 14.5 sacks in 11 games. I think Albert, or anybody, is better than Terry.
Not sure why you think KC is weak at RB. I think they are deeper then they have been in a long time. LJ is starting. Then you have the speed back in Jamaal Charles who was at least IMO the best RB in the Big 12 last season. Then you have Kolby Smith, who had a few good games but was average. We also have Savage from OSU. He was very productive there.
As for the question marks, KC has been grooming Niswanger to play C for 2 seasons. He looked good when he got playing time last year before his knee was shredded. LT is obviously going to Albert who has all the measurables to play LT but just needs some experience.
KC drafted Will Franklin as the #2 or #3 WR. He was productive at Mizzou and was a good #2 WR for them. I think the Safety position is also deep too. Wesley is leaving thank god and Page is solid. Pollard still has some learning to do and we got a good value by drafting Dejaun Morgan in round 3.
It's basically just like I said. KC has talent on paper, but it needs to be proven and gelled together.

There were 2 big problems with KC last season.

1. We couldn't run the ball-28th in the NFL
2.We couldn't stop the run-30th in the NFL

I think getting Dorsey and getting deeper at RB will help those problems

You say you have talent on paper, I say you don't because you are assuming the guys the Chiefs drafted will be good players. A ton of "ifs" there. I just don't see the Chiefs being anything but marginally better than they were this past year. I mean, you guys lost your best defensive player. What did you add? A rookie who has yet to play a snap. You think he's going to become an All Pro right away? Keep dreaming. A lot of backtracking to college careers too, and that doesn't mean it will translate to the NFL. I wouldn't start talking about how deep a position is now when you think guys who have none or little experience will be big factors in your game.

Cmac821
05-26-2008, 11:25 AM
san diego is a sinking ship don't expect much.

Kaylore
05-26-2008, 11:28 AM
I think this is the year Croyle finally has a chance to show what he has. Last season he was sacked again and again and again. Our RT Chris Terry was so horrible that we cut him before the season was even over. He gave up 14.5 sacks in 11 games. I think Albert, or anybody, is better than Terry.... LT is obviously going to Albert who has all the measurables to play LT but just needs some experience.
Albert doesn't have the measurables to play left tackle. He isn't quick enough. You're talking about a guy who played guard in college and you want to put him on the blind side of your QB to completely re-learn a position? I hope you guys try that against us. If they really want to play him at tackle, I suspect they try him at RT first and see how he does outside. Even if Clady works out, that still leaves one side of your line that isn't any good and a hole filled interior.
Not sure why you think KC is weak at RB. I think they are deeper then they have been in a long time. LJ is starting.
That won't last long. He'll play have some marginal success and then be out football in a couple of years. He's following the same process every other power back has that goes over 400 carries. First they go 400 carries, then they get hurt the following year. Then they come back for one marginal year. Then they are benched and out of football. I watched LJ run last year and even before his injury he wasn't the same player and you know it. Then you have the speed back in Jamaal Charles who was at least IMO the best RB in the Big 12 last season. Then you have Kolby Smith, who had a few good games but was average. We also have Savage from OSU. He was very productive there.
Basically Charles has to break out because you have one average guy. Are you really expecting your undrafted free agent to contribute? You're not the Broncos. While on paper your depth looks good, no one there scares me.
As for the question marks, KC has been grooming Niswanger to play C for 2 seasons. He looked good when he got playing time last year before his knee was shredded.
So a guy with limited playing time coming of a torn up knee is the answer?
KC drafted Will Franklin as the #2 or #3 WR. He was productive at Mizzou and was a good #2 WR for them.
Will Franklin isn't very smart. He also doesn't have great hands. He's also kind of raw. You are telling me that you honestly believe that he's going win the the number two receiver spot on your team?
I think the Safety position is also deep too.
Yes it is deep. However the quality of that depth isn't very good. Wesley was better than Pollard. A rookie corner on the other side isn't going to help a now very aged Pat Surtain.
It's basically just like I said. KC has talent on paper, but it needs to be proven and gelled together.
They also have just as many holes. It will take another draft like this one before you guys can start being competitive again.



1. We couldn't run the ball-28th in the NFL
2.We couldn't stop the run-30th in the NFL

I think getting Dorsey and getting deeper at RB will help those problems
Dorsey will help your interior, but you lost Allen which will show. Hali isn't going to do well. He already had a major threat on the other side and even with more one-on-one situations he only managed 7 sacks. Now he's the guy and it will be very easy to shut him down.

As for your line, it is now a bunch of unproven's and unknowns. Albert is a great prospect - at RT or Guard. That has more to do with running the ball than getting a new RB. It's a good thing Croyle is mobile, but it's not good that he's so injury prone.

And what about your special teams? Your kicker is and return game is terrible.

I just don't see it. You guys would have to have everyone you brought in work out for your team to get 8 wins. For a pretty unlucky franchise that's expecting a lot. If I were a Chiefs fan I would just trust the plan. Expect a bad season on paper next year with the understanding that we were building toward something better in the long term and in two or three years we could be a good team.

Bronco Billy
05-26-2008, 11:42 AM
Denver 11-5
San Diego 10-6
Kansas City 4-11-1
Oakland 3-13

Spider
05-26-2008, 11:45 AM
1. Denver 11-5 .... Selvin young comes into his own , Clady , Big Year from D.J.Williams
2. K.C. 10-6 .. problems on Offense , but I suspect the KC Defense will be around this year ...
3. Chargers 9-7 , I got faith in Norv to screw up ;D Seriously though they have a pretty rough schedule this year
4. Raiders 6-10 ..... J. Russel isnt the Answer ...

400HZ
05-26-2008, 11:45 AM
Boltaneer come on you are a logical and good Chargers fan. Putting Denver at 6-10 is ludacrous. First of all Shanahan rarely has back to back losing seasons and doesn't regress.

I am not going to be all homer and say 13-3 but 10-6 to 8-8 is more realistic.

6-10 is only one win less than Denver posted last year. What's so ludicrous about that?

Inkana7
05-26-2008, 11:47 AM
6-10 is only one win less than Denver posted last year. What's so ludicrous about that?

Pretty much everything.

Spider
05-26-2008, 11:51 AM
6-10 is only one win less than Denver posted last year. What's so ludicrous about that?

you see us at 6-10 ....... why is that ?

400HZ
05-26-2008, 12:14 PM
you see us at 6-10 ....... why is that ?

I put down 8-8, but if the Broncos get some bad breaks this year, 6-10 isn't unfeasible at all. I think your offense is going to be a mess if Brandon Marshall can't overcome his nerve damage quickly enough. Without him, all you really have is a slew of players better suited for #3 roles and a pretty good pass catching tight en...oops, he's got health issues again, too. I think you can appreciate the concern there. Defensively, we'll see. Slowik? He does not have a good track record. Robertson might be a good addition, but how often do these first round bust injury concern guys pan out for you guys? I don't think 6 wins is unreasonable. On the flip side, if the sticks fall your way 9 or maybe even 10 isn't unreasonable, either. Right now though, there is no way that I'd be putting money down on the Broncos.

theAPAOps5
05-26-2008, 12:33 PM
I put down 8-8, but if the Broncos get some bad breaks this year, 6-10 isn't unfeasible at all. I think your offense is going to be a mess if Brandon Marshall can't overcome his nerve damage quickly enough. Without him, all you really have is a slew of players better suited for #3 roles and a pretty good pass catching tight en...oops, he's got health issues again, too. I think you can appreciate the concern there. Defensively, we'll see. Slowik? He does not have a good track record. Robertson might be a good addition, but how often do these first round bust injury concern guys pan out for you guys? I don't think 6 wins is unreasonable. On the flip side, if the sticks fall your way 9 or maybe even 10 isn't unreasonable, either. Right now though, there is no way that I'd be putting money down on the Broncos.

Any team with bad breaks can go 6-10. I make my choices based on a normal scenario. There is no way I see Denver regressing. They improve albeit maybe not as fast as some of the ADD fans would like.

Here is why:

The O-line while still a big question mark gets its gusto back with Hamilton fully recovered, Nalen back leading, and a young LT with great ability.

The Defense is definitely going to be improved. Bates defense was not bought into by all the players. That and they abandoned it and had to learn on the fly. Now with slowik running his real D they should be better. Foxy on the radio said its a much better defense for the guys. But its blitz heavy so the line has to get a push so the QB can't pick and chose.

WR is where things could spell doom. Marshall absolutely has to come back and be effective. My worries about him aren't that won't heal but that he won't come back mentally. Just a year ago Shanny had to force him out to practice after his hamstring injury. If he starts thinking about the hand the ability goes away.

So I say 10-6 based an easier schedule and Cutler being healthy and in his 3rd year of the program.

But it could slide to say 9-7 or 8-8 and worse.

But for that not to happen Robertson and the line have to make an impact for once. The rookies from last year have to make that next step. The LB has to be better period. DJ back to Will is great. Boss at Sam we will have to see. I think Koutivedes will be a pleasant surprise at the Mike slot. He apprenticed under the best and the biggest compliment I have heard is he is a beast on special teams. Meaning he goes balls to the wall all the time. Gold well we all know about that he wasn't balls out very much in the end and he earned his cut. There is also a pretty decent rookie MLB laying in wait who some say might be the next starter. Corners are going to play their style which I think will cause Bailey to be resurgent in his numbers again. The Safety position thats still lacking. Lynch is older and Hamzah Abulla still has work to do. We might see the rookie a lot sooner.

So there are a lot of what ifs. But the team hopefully fixed their draft debacles and are building a competitive team that will peak in the next year or two. But we aren't going 12-4 or 11-5 this year unless it just all clicks at once and we get some breaks.


One big problem is we lost Elam to Atlanta and their spending spree. Its absolutely vital the line gets push in the red zone and come away with 7 because with such questions in the kicking game you do not want to rely on 4 game winners by an unknown.

Its a season of ifs and buts. Which is probably why ESPN has us at 23. But I gurantee we will rise well above that number.

Spider
05-26-2008, 12:38 PM
I put down 8-8, but if the Broncos get some bad breaks this year, 6-10 isn't unfeasible at all. I think your offense is going to be a mess if Brandon Marshall can't overcome his nerve damage quickly enough. Without him, all you really have is a slew of players better suited for #3 roles and a pretty good pass catching tight en...oops, he's got health issues again, too. I think you can appreciate the concern there. Defensively, we'll see. Slowik? He does not have a good track record. Robertson might be a good addition, but how often do these first round bust injury concern guys pan out for you guys? I don't think 6 wins is unreasonable. On the flip side, if the sticks fall your way 9 or maybe even 10 isn't unreasonable, either. Right now though, there is no way that I'd be putting money down on the Broncos. I see , well you have your reasons , when I judge a team WR is the last thing I look at , but we are all different , Me I start with the Tight End , work my way to Full Back ,then HB , to Left Tackle on down , then I take a look at the defense , it all begins in the middle even in your 3-4 scheme , losing Al Wilson was a huge blow for us last year , I have seen D.J. Williams mature and grow, but adding Boss Bailey will help , we wont have a shut down defense , but we will hold our own .... That leaves me with Cutler ...Now that he is on treatment for his Diabetes , I do expect a huge difference in his game ,specially late in the year ..any hoo like I said we all judge teams different

400HZ
05-26-2008, 01:24 PM
Any team with bad breaks can go 6-10. I make my choices based on a normal scenario. There is no way I see Denver regressing. They improve albeit maybe not as fast as some of the ADD fans would like.

I don't mean random-type bad breaks, I mean categorically there are a lot of significant issues hanging in the balance.
a) Coaching - Bob Slowik has a pretty dismal record as a coordinator. At least Bates had some street cred as a game planner, even if his scheme was a failure in Denver.

b) Offense - Nalen and Hamilton are back, yes, but one guy is 37 years old and the other is coming off an injury that some people never recover from. Even if they come back strong, they don't fit in all that well with the new, bigger line that Shanahan seems to be building. With Clady getting acclimated, it might well be another transition year for your front five. Kudos to Shanahan for heavily investing in this unit, though... it definitely needed to be done. Elsewhere, Cutler shouldn't be affected by his diabetes on the field, but with a disease that scary, there is always potential trouble. At Wideout, we talked about Marshall. He's a game changer. Who's going to be #1 if he can't get back on the field. Heck, who's going to be #2 even if Marshall does make it back? Jackson and Colbert are probably the best options, but they haven't been real impressive lately.

c) Defense - Transition in the front 7. Transition at safety. Recent changes might work out favorably, they might not. I think there are a lot of question marks here. Can Dumervil be effective against the run? Can Marcus Thomas improve? Can Robertson stay healthy? Can Moss make an impact? Can Ekuban make a full recovery at his age? Will Boss Bailey play better in Denver than he did in Detroit? Is Koutovides any good? How will DJ Williams respond to another position change? Who's going to start at safety?

d) Special Teams - Shanahan obviously likes Eddie Royal as a returner, but your kicking game appears to be in shambles right now. Getting issues resolved here is huge. I remember watching Paul Ernster whack 14 yard punts last year and saying to myself, "Are these guys for real?"

By the law of averages, some of these issues will resolve themselves favorably and some will not. Depending on which way it leans, I think anywhere from 6 to 10 wins is possible.

Kaylore
05-26-2008, 01:31 PM
Wow. Ok Boltaneer and 400HZ I'll make sig bets right now that the Broncos win more than 6 games.

400HZ
05-26-2008, 01:39 PM
Wow. Ok Boltaneer and 400HZ I'll make sig bets right now that the Broncos win more than 6 games.

Well like I said, my money would be on 6-10 wins right now. I'd make a bet on 9 or fewer. Maybe Boltaneer will take you up on 6. :sunshine:

Kaylore
05-26-2008, 01:47 PM
Well like I said, my money would be on 6-10 wins right now. I'd make a bet on 9 or fewer. Maybe Boltaneer will take you up on 6. :sunshine:

You would put money on 6 wins and you won't make a sig bet with me on 6? Come on. Let's do it right now.

Los Broncos
05-26-2008, 01:51 PM
SD 12-4

Denver 8-8

KC 6-10

Oakland 4-12

400HZ
05-26-2008, 01:54 PM
You would put money on 6 wins and you won't make a sig bet with me on 6? Come on. Let's do it right now.

I said I would put money on between 6 and 10. :angel:

400HZ
05-26-2008, 01:55 PM
You would put money on 6 wins and you won't make a sig bet with me on 6? Come on. Let's do it right now.

I would love to see you with a Phillip Rivers special on the bottom of all your posts, though. :~ohyah!:

Kaylore
05-26-2008, 02:05 PM
I would love to see you with a Phillip Rivers special on the bottom of all your posts, though. :~ohyah!:

Then let's do 7 wins. If you would put money on 6-10, 7 is hardly a big bet with no money involved. If the Broncos win 8+ games I get rights to your sig for a month. If not, you own my sig for a month.

Kaylore
05-26-2008, 02:05 PM
Come on...

http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/birds/images/de_blue_hen_chicken.jpg

boltaneer
05-26-2008, 02:13 PM
I agree with 400 in that Denver could be a 6-10 win depending on how many times the ball bounces their way, especially when they can have four easy wins against KC and Oakland this year but I haven't been impressed with any additions to the team outside of Clady and Casey Wiegman for depth. Marlon McCree is a decent pickup but he appears to be a stop gap type of player until you can upgrade him.

As bad as Denver's linebackers were last year I don't think they guys you picked up are an improvement. Throw in the fact that your stud WR might not do anything this season, you're probably going to be playing a rookie kicker in place of your hall of fame kicker, Scheffler continues to be plagued with injuries (no surprise there), your QB is going to be battling a terrible disease and you brought in a busted DT as the answer to your D-line problems, I have no problem projecting six wins for them.

400HZ
05-26-2008, 02:18 PM
Then let's do 7 wins. If you would put money on 6-10, 7 is hardly a big bet with no money involved. If the Broncos win 8+ games I get rights to your sig for a month. If not, you own my sig for a month.

Well hell, you predicated 11. Let's do 8, my original guess. 8 or less.

Pat Bowlen
05-26-2008, 02:45 PM
your QB is going to be battling a terrible disease
I hate to admit it, but this is an extremely good argument. Jay didn't catch the diabetes until after last season, and I'm personally very worried about how he'll cope.

Inkana7
05-26-2008, 02:46 PM
Denver 8-8
San Diego 7-9
Oakland 6-10
Kansas City 6-10

I have San Diego going 7-9 based on the ball bouncing the other way against them all season. You know, they have a lot of injury concerns.

See how ludicrous that sounds?

Boltaneer, your explanation, simply, is retarded. You make it sound like Cutler will be taking snaps while battling Parkinson's Disease.

oubronco
05-26-2008, 02:49 PM
san diego 11-5
denver 10-6
oakland 6-10
kansas city 4-12

KCStud
05-26-2008, 02:54 PM
Albert doesn't have the measurables to play left tackle. He isn't quick enough. You're talking about a guy who played guard in college and you want to put him on the blind side of your QB to completely re-learn a position? I hope you guys try that against us. If they really want to play him at tackle, I suspect they try him at RT first and see how he does outside. Even if Clady works out, that still leaves one side of your line that isn't any good and a hole filled interior.

That won't last long. He'll play have some marginal success and then be out football in a couple of years. He's following the same process every other power back has that goes over 400 carries. First they go 400 carries, then they get hurt the following year. Then they come back for one marginal year. Then they are benched and out of football. I watched LJ run last year and even before his injury he wasn't the same player and you know it.
Basically Charles has to break out because you have one average guy. Are you really expecting your undrafted free agent to contribute? You're not the Broncos. While on paper your depth looks good, no one there scares me.

So a guy with limited playing time coming of a torn up knee is the answer?

Will Franklin isn't very smart. He also doesn't have great hands. He's also kind of raw. You are telling me that you honestly believe that he's going win the the number two receiver spot on your team?

Yes it is deep. However the quality of that depth isn't very good. Wesley was better than Pollard. A rookie corner on the other side isn't going to help a now very aged Pat Surtain.

They also have just as many holes. It will take another draft like this one before you guys can start being competitive again.




Dorsey will help your interior, but you lost Allen which will show. Hali isn't going to do well. He already had a major threat on the other side and even with more one-on-one situations he only managed 7 sacks. Now he's the guy and it will be very easy to shut him down.

As for your line, it is now a bunch of unproven's and unknowns. Albert is a great prospect - at RT or Guard. That has more to do with running the ball than getting a new RB. It's a good thing Croyle is mobile, but it's not good that he's so injury prone.

And what about your special teams? Your kicker is and return game is terrible.

I just don't see it. You guys would have to have everyone you brought in work out for your team to get 8 wins. For a pretty unlucky franchise that's expecting a lot. If I were a Chiefs fan I would just trust the plan. Expect a bad season on paper next year with the understanding that we were building toward something better in the long term and in two or three years we could be a good team.

Actually scouts raved over Albert. He has the mean streak and his best quality is his feet. He moves well in space. I think he has the measurables but lacks experience. The reason he didn't play LT in college was because Virginia's coach wanted the 5 best OL on the field at the same time. They have a real talent at LT who could only play LT. Albert played G because he is very flexible. We'll have to see how he does in preseason. As of right now he's lining up at LT.
I know LJ looked bad last season, but not all of that was his fault. It didn't help when our horrible RT and RG didn't get any push. I think that Charles is gonna be underrated and could take over if LJ doesn't perform.

The OL has 3 solid starters IMO. Waters, McIntosh and Albert. RG scares the hell out of me. We'll have to see about Rudy though. He looked better than Weigmann out there last season.

And I don't think you know just how much KC hates Greg Wesley. He bites at everything. The TD pass that Cutler threw to Graham off the bootleg at Arrowhead was a perfect example. Always biting and out of position. I would like to take my chances with younger players who could get better instead of dealing with Wesley who never will.

KC has a few good kickers competing for the job. Novak and Barth. K is a problem for both KC and DEN right now.

As for Franklin, he had somewhat questionable hands, but so did Bowe. He has to prove himself.

The return game doesn't worry me at all. We picked up BJ Sams to compete and we drafted Kevin Robinson. He's returned 8 kicks for TD's. He returned one in the shrine all star game too. I like what he's capable of. Robinson, like Royal, will have to prove themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tch6O29kbaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhuadMZdEfM&feature=related

One last thing is Hali. I think you are seriously understimating what he can do. He was hurt all of last season and still put up good numbers. Now he is going to be right next to Dorsey and on the right side where he doesn't have to deal with blocking TE's. I'm predicting that he gets at least 10 sacks this season.

Overall I think KC is heading in the right direction. It will take another year maybe two to get the team gelled together. I'm not expecting a good year, but going 6-10 or 7-9 would go a long way

Pat Bowlen
05-26-2008, 02:55 PM
I tried to talk Jay into retiring the other day, so he'd have a couple years to spend with his family before tragically expiring. He refused, thankfully.

Inkana7
05-26-2008, 02:57 PM
Tamba Hali sucks.

Greybeard
05-26-2008, 03:04 PM
I agree with 400 in that Denver could be a 6-10 win depending on how many times the ball bounces their way, especially when they can have four easy wins against KC and Oakland this year but I haven't been impressed with any additions to the team outside of Clady and Casey Wiegman for depth. Marlon McCree is a decent pickup but he appears to be a stop gap type of player until you can upgrade him.

As bad as Denver's linebackers were last year I don't think they guys you picked up are an improvement. Throw in the fact that your stud WR might not do anything this season, you're probably going to be playing a rookie kicker in place of your hall of fame kicker, Scheffler continues to be plagued with injuries (no surprise there), your QB is going to be battling a terrible disease and you brought in a busted DT as the answer to your D-line problems, I have no problem projecting six wins for them.

I agree with you to a point. I have a higher regard than you for the players
that the Broncos have brought in, but it is going to take some time to gel, IMO.

Where I take issue the most with you is your implication that Cutler's play
will deteriorate because he is "battling a terrible disease." This is not the case.
I see no problem with that whatsoever, provided Cutler responsibly regulates
his blood sugar, and he has given all signs that he will.

Type I diabetes has never held an athlete down if the athlete has decided it
will not. Billie Jean King played with it and became the #1 women's tennis
player in the world. Wade Wilson played QB in the NFL for 15 years with it.

Moreover, Type I diabetes has run in both sides of my family (why I don't
have it is a mystery), so I am familiar with it. Provided it is regulated, the
patient can live a long, happy, successful, "normal" life.

Anyway, Cutler's disease is not a factor, and he is headed to stardom, much
to the chagrin of dolts fans, I'm sure.

Regarding the Chargers, I don't see a leader there in the proper places. Their
choking last year is going to take a toll on them . . . SD has never been able
to stomach being on top for long.

The Raiders flashed the cash on their way toward their fall. You would have
thought the corpse would have learned by watching how the Broncos brought
in all those has-beens for big money, but, much to my glee, he didn't.

The Chiefs made out like a bandit in the draft, and the talent level is much
higher than it has been for a couple years. They will give some teams trouble
here and there, but many of their players have to mature, and the team has
to gel.

For the Broncos, see the previous paragraph on the Chiefs. The Broncos do
have more talent than the Chiefs . . . not to mention a quarterback . . . but
they have some gelling problems to go through.

So here is how it looks to me (although I haven't studied the teams'
respective opponents very closely, so this is just for kicks):

Denver 10-6
SD 10-6
KC 7-9
Oak 6-10

Denver will win the tie-breaker since SD will come in overconfident, and
Denver will have a chip on their shoulders from last year. The first game will
be a shock to SD. In the second game, SD will know more what to expect,
but will win only by a close margin because Denver will be gelling by then.

(I hear crow tastes better with a little Spike seasoning on it.)

-----

theAPAOps5
05-26-2008, 03:20 PM
I tried to talk Jay into retiring the other day, so he'd have a couple years to spend with his family before tragically expiring. He refused, thankfully.

The betes is just horrible to have. I am shortening Diabetes because the betes makes it sound more like one of those ailments from 1723 that boltaneer thinks Cutler has.

Atwater His Ass
05-26-2008, 03:58 PM
there's a big difference between 6 and 10 wins. it's hardly a prediciton, giving yourself a 5 game spread over a 16 game season.

rovolution
05-26-2008, 04:04 PM
400 and boltaneer, i respect your opinions but lets take a look at the Chargers.

I noticed Jamal Williams, who i considered the best player on your defense for many years and the man who makes your 3-4 go, really had a down year in my mind. Hes missed some time last season and Father Time is catching up to him, yet you have no viable replacement for him if he goes down IMO.

Even Chargers fans will admit Marcus McNeil regressed last season after his outstanding rookie year. Kyle Vanden Bosh destroyed him last season in the regular season matchup. I dont know whats wrong with him, but he needs to get back that mental edge he had in 2006 when he had the broken hands, because the talent is there without a doubt.

And I still dont see a solution to your glaring RT problem.

Plus i dont believe Phillip is the answer at QB.


Again, i believe you will probably go 6-0 or 5-1 against the AFC West, but your competition is not us.

Its the Patriots, Colts, Jags, and Browns and when i compare your team those 4, especially the Jags, who i feel will be the AFC representative in the SB this season,
I feel the road to the SB will be a difficult one for you.

skpac1001
05-26-2008, 04:16 PM
there's a big difference between 6 and 10 wins. it's hardly a prediciton, giving yourself a 5 game spread over a 16 game season.

Not only that, its in the meaty part of the bell curve.

Rausch 2.0
05-26-2008, 04:43 PM
San Diego 13-3
Denver 8-8
Oakland 6-10
Kansas City 6-10

I'd put SD at 11-12 wins but completely agree outside of that.

I don't think anyone outside of SD will be consistent enough to sweep a div. rival...

Rausch 2.0
05-26-2008, 04:46 PM
Tamba Hali sucks.

I don't think he sucks but he's clearly not worth the 1st round pick.

He's played with about 3rd round talent so far. Average starter, nothing special...

400HZ
05-26-2008, 04:56 PM
400 and boltaneer, i respect your opinions but lets take a look at the Chargers.

I noticed Jamal Williams, who i considered the best player on your defense for many years and the man who makes your 3-4 go, really had a down year in my mind. Hes missed some time last season and Father Time is catching up to him, yet you have no viable replacement for him if he goes down IMO.

Even Chargers fans will admit Marcus McNeil regressed last season after his outstanding rookie year. Kyle Vanden Bosh destroyed him last season in the regular season matchup. I dont know whats wrong with him, but he needs to get back that mental edge he had in 2006 when he had the broken hands, because the talent is there without a doubt.

And I still dont see a solution to your glaring RT problem.

Plus i dont believe Phillip is the answer at QB.


Again, i believe you will probably go 6-0 or 5-1 against the AFC West, but your competition is not us.

Its the Patriots, Colts, Jags, and Browns and when i compare your team those 4, especially the Jags, who i feel will be the AFC representative in the SB this season,
I feel the road to the SB will be a difficult one for you.

Those are fair concerns. Jamal Williams played in top form the first few games of the season, but battled a series of injuries (hyper-extended elbow, high ankle sprain, and a double knee scoping) down the stretch. He's 32. I don't know if his skills have really eroded, but it's going to be harder for him to stay healthy. The Chargers need some luck there for sure.

McNeill got off to a rough start, but after that game where Vandenbosch smoked him he really stepped his game back up. During the last 6 games of the year he gave up 0.5 sacks. At the Pro Bowl he acknowledged that he was very dissatisfied with the way he began the season. I think he hit the classic sophmore slump.

At right tackle, Jeromey Clary is ok. His run blocking isn't great, but his pass protection is above average and he's a developmental type guy with upside. L.J. Shelton added some decent depth.

My biggest concern this season is our run defense, which wore down at times last year. Jamal Williams staying healthy would be a huge boost, and I think Anthony Waters will unseat one of our MLBs for a starting position and add a more physical presence on the field. Maybe we'll get a full season out of Luis Castillo, too. If we have problems, I've heard a little bit about a situational 46 defense. Our corner play has been phenomenal lately, so I think that could be a legit solution if we have trouble. It bugged the hell out of me last year when Cottrell refused to load the box when we were getting run on. Eric Weddle's versatility will pay off huge if this actually gets implemented.

there's a big difference between 6 and 10 wins. it's hardly a prediciton, giving yourself a 5 game spread over a 16 game season.

Eight wins for Denver. I think they have more potential upside or downside than anybody else in the division, though.

Tombstone RJ
05-26-2008, 05:14 PM
I don't see Cutler's health as a issue at all for the Broncos. Diabetes is a very controllable disease and he's going to be monitored all the time. It's a none issue.

As for the Charger's weaknesses, there aren't many. Fact is, they are the most talented team in the NFL man for man.

(I hate to toot my own horn but I told everyone on this board three year's ago, when Marty was still coaching, that the Charger's are sick with talent).

But, the argument can also be made that the Charger's window of opportunity is rapidly closing. One or two injuries, and the wheels can fall of the wagon. Norv Turner is not a good HC, period.

Let's take a scenario: LT goes down with an injury leaving River's as the de facto offensive leader. Well, he starts tossing INT's and the team starts struggling. Next thing you know, they go on a 4 game losing streak and ole Norv can't seem to right the ship because he is not a leader....

Very possible. Unlikely, but possible.

Inkana7
05-26-2008, 05:18 PM
Also, LT can't be in top form forever. 400+ touches a year every year have to catch up to him sometime. The Chargers can't seem to stay healthy all year, and they're lucky that this hasn't hurt them as much as it would other teams, like Denver.

Doggcow
05-26-2008, 05:57 PM
Den 19-0
SD 11-5
Oak 7-9
KC 5-11

400HZ
05-26-2008, 06:16 PM
Let's take a scenario: LT goes down with an injury leaving River's as the de facto offensive leader.

Ask Peyton Manning about that.

Inkana7
05-26-2008, 06:20 PM
Ask Peyton Manning about that.

He'd probably ask Kenton Keith about that.

Besides, I didn't know Peyton Manning actually faced Rivers one on one.

KCStud
05-26-2008, 06:22 PM
I don't think he sucks but he's clearly not worth the 1st round pick.

He's played with about 3rd round talent so far. Average starter, nothing special...

He's been pretty decent, but remember he was hurt all of last year and he had more sacks than Jared Allen in 2006. I still think he gets double digit sacks

broncofan2438
05-26-2008, 07:34 PM
Wow, do I have to be the first one to do it.........

Denver 11-5
San Diego 10-6
Faiders 7-9
Qweefs 5-11

Tombstone RJ
05-26-2008, 08:17 PM
Ask Peyton Manning about that.

Why? Rivers is no Peyton Manning.

Broncos4Life
05-26-2008, 09:05 PM
Denver 11-5
San Diego 8-8
Oakland 7-9
Kansas 6-10

I know a lot of people don't like this but I don't give a ****.

Bronco Billy
05-26-2008, 09:16 PM
Wow, do I have to be the first one to do it.........

Denver 11-5
San Diego 10-6
Faiders 7-9
Qweefs 5-11

You were the first one to put "Faiders" and "Qweefs"! ^5

Ugly Duck
05-26-2008, 09:28 PM
To be honest, I see teams running all over the Faiders this season. The Faiders were... 31st in rush defense. Dorsey would have made their defense top 5 no doubt.

Wow... Dorsey must be the greatest NFL player of all time. Apparently, there is "no doubt" he singlehandedly would have made the worst run defense into a Top 5. Is it within the rules to elect him to the NFL Hall of Fame before he's ever played a down?

Kaylore
05-26-2008, 09:35 PM
Well hell, you predicated 11. Let's do 8, my original guess. 8 or less.

So you're betting the Broncos don't win more than 8 games?

Cito Pelon
05-26-2008, 10:03 PM
san diego 11-5
denver 10-6
oakland 6-10
kansas city 4-12

That sounds pretty good right now.

boltaneer
05-26-2008, 10:15 PM
Denver 8-8
San Diego 7-9
Oakland 6-10
Kansas City 6-10

I have San Diego going 7-9 based on the ball bouncing the other way against them all season. You know, they have a lot of injury concerns.

See how ludicrous that sounds?

Boltaneer, your explanation, simply, is retarded. You make it sound like Cutler will be taking snaps while battling Parkinson's Disease.

Wow, I threw in the Cutler thing in my overall assessment for the Broncos but you guys are blowing it all out of proportion and it certainly wasn't the number on issue on my list. Actually, I don't think it will be a big deal for him. He's still a young guy and he'll have availability to a top notch medical staff. But it's still something to factor in, more mental than anything else I would think. I hope he does handle it well. I don't wish anything like that on him. Anyway, I think he has enough problems as it is without worrying about that.

I'm just looking at the overall picture and I don't see upgrades in most of the spots where changes was made. That's all. We can only judge teams on how they look on paper at this point in time until September comes.

kmartin575
05-26-2008, 11:07 PM
KC should be able to do better than 6 wins. I think the Chiefs will win about 9 this year.

Are you serious? I'm not even close to that optimistic about this team. But it's not about the wins for me this year. It's about seeing our young player progress. If we lose 10 games but see Brodie Croyle make alot of progress the it was a good season to me.

kmartin575
05-26-2008, 11:18 PM
You said they'd be good last year too! I'm going to spare you the old quotes of yours I've found and was going to post. I'll just say that your faith in them rarely jives with reality. It's so weird! I remember at camp the past years you'd look at me with this concerned gaze and say "the Chiefs scare me this year." They have had some decent years, but as long as Germ is their coach they'll never go anywhere.

True. Their draft at the top was awesome. Couple that with the fact that Carl seems to hit on his first round picks, and it's hard to say they're not headed in a positive direction. That said, even the best rookies take at least a year get going and right now they are just too young to look very good.

They have no running back either. I know that Albert will help, but he is not a LT and he's only one guy after they got rid of several and don't have much else. I really believe LJ is done too. Croyle is learning way to slowly and gets hurt to much and relapses into mistakes too often for me to ever think he could stand in the same room as Drew Brees' jock. Bowe is good. Tony G has some left in the tank. Derrick Johnson is solid. Then...what? No center, no kicker, no LT, one receiver, no safeties, no running game, an offense that makes the power I look like Air Coryell; I'm sorry man, but while I agree they will surprise some people, they will not win more than 7 games this year.

Just because you have no knowledge of some of our players doesn't mean they are all crap.

Albert is not a LT? Well, we'll see. He is already lining up at left tackle in OTA's.

We have no runningbacks? And LJ is done? Wishful thinking. He isn't anywhere close to done. His injury last year had absolutely nothing to do with his heavy load the previous season. And even if he was done, we did just draft a runningback in the 3rd round this year. A guy by the name of Jamaal Charles. 4.38 speed, put up better stats than Darren McFadden this year, still has alot of room to grow, yadda yadda yadda. And then there is still Kolby Smith who showed some promise last year. It's funny how you guys talk about all the injuries Selvin Young had being the reason for him not being drafted but when LJ has his first major injury throughout college or the NFL and you proclaim he is done? He does happen to be younger than Travis Henry. I see absolutely NO reason to believe he is done.

No center? Well, again we will see. Rudy Niswanger showed promise at right guard last year and should be even better at center. Just because you have no knowledge of him does not mean we have no center.

No kicker? I guess you could say the same for your team. Same goes for punter for you guys.

No left tackle? That's Branden Albert.

1 receiver? We'll see. Jeff Webb still has some promise and speedster Will Franklin has been impressive in OTA's. He has looked better than Dwayne Bowe did a year ago, who at this point was dropping balls left and right in OTA's.

No safeties? I'll take our safeties over the crap you have in Denver. John Lynch is done, Hamza Abdullah is crap (teams wouldn't even give up a 7th round pick for him as an RFA), Marquand Manuel sucks, and Marlon McCree is average at best. I'll take Jarrad Page and Bernard Pollard over that junk. And some considered 3rd round pick Dajuan Morgan to be the best free safety in the draft.

KCStud
05-26-2008, 11:20 PM
Wow... Dorsey must be the greatest NFL player of all time. Apparently, there is "no doubt" he singlehandedly would have made the worst run defense into a Top 5. Is it within the rules to elect him to the NFL Hall of Fame before he's ever played a down?

Read the post again. Never did I say Dorsey would make your run defense top 5. I said he would help make your defense as a whole top 5.

kmartin575
05-26-2008, 11:22 PM
You say you have talent on paper, I say you don't because you are assuming the guys the Chiefs drafted will be good players. A ton of "ifs" there. I just don't see the Chiefs being anything but marginally better than they were this past year. I mean, you guys lost your best defensive player. What did you add? A rookie who has yet to play a snap. You think he's going to become an All Pro right away? Keep dreaming. A lot of backtracking to college careers too, and that doesn't mean it will translate to the NFL. I wouldn't start talking about how deep a position is now when you think guys who have none or little experience will be big factors in your game.

So likewise I could say your offensive line will suck because the most important position on the line, left tackle, will be manned by a rookie.

KCStud
05-26-2008, 11:24 PM
Your an idiot, just have to put that out there. Just because you have no knowledge of some of our players doesn't mean they are all crap.

Albert is not a LT? Well, we'll see. He is already lining up at left tackle in OTA's.

We have no runningbacks? And LJ is done? Wishful thinking. He isn't anywhere close to done. His injury last year had absolutely nothing to do with his heavy load the previous season. And even if he was done, we did just draft a runningback in the 3rd round this year. A guy by the name of Jamaal Charles. 4.38 speed, put up better stats than Darren McFadden this year, still has alot of room to grow, yadda yadda yadda. And then there is still Kolby Smith who showed some promise last year. It's funny how you guys talk about all the injuries Selvin Young had being the reason for him not being drafted but when LJ has his first major injury throughout college or the NFL and you proclaim he is done? He does happen to be younger than Travis Henry. I see absolutely NO reason to believe he is done.

No center? Well, again we will see. Rudy Niswanger showed promise at right guard last year and should be even better at center. Just because you have no knowledge of him does not mean we have no center.

No kicker? I guess you could say the same for your team. Same goes for punter for you guys.

No left tackle? That's Branden Albert.

1 receiver? We'll see. Jeff Webb still has some promise and speedster Will Franklin has been impressive in OTA's. He has looked better than Dwayne Bowe did a year ago, who at this point was dropping balls left and right in OTA's.

No safeties? I'll take our safeties over the crap you have in Denver. John Lynch is done, Hamza Abdullah is crap (teams wouldn't even give up a 7th round pick for him as an RFA), Marquand Manuel sucks, and Marlon McCree is average at best. I'll take Jarrad Page and Bernard Pollard over that junk. And some considered 3rd round pick Dajuan Morgan to be the best free safety in the draft.

All too true KMartin. But our Chiefs have a lot of questions to answer. It's like I said before. KC has young talent. They just need to gain experience and grow together.

colonelbeef
05-26-2008, 11:30 PM
SD 11-5 (I still have no faith in Turner, and see this team regressing)
DEN 10-6 (WC berth, a team nobody wants to play come January)
KC 6-10 (still no answer at QB, Herm will have the D ready to play though)
OAK 4-12 (Russell is the new huge bust at QB)


I could see DEN and SD flip flopping if Robertson is healthy, Niko fills the MLB gap decently, the OL improves as it should with Nalen back and Clady at T, and Cutler------------->Marshall takes the next step

Ugly Duck
05-26-2008, 11:41 PM
hhmmm..I don't see KC in last place behind the Faiders. I think we all agree SD is the favorite.

SD 12-4
DEN10-6
KC 6-10
OAK 5-11

Oakland has too many new players on the team for people to estimate how they'll do. Gotta wait for the dust to settle before anyone knows whats there. However, I don't buy in to the assumption that spending a lot of money on offseason acquisitions neccesarily makes a team worse (hard to get worse than we were last season). Bad as the Raiders were, they still beat KC & Denver last time they played 'em. Also, Oakland had a tough Stength of Schedule (.516) last year. This time, they play a .395 strength of schedule up until December. Don't know enough yet to predict, but I gotta feeling that they'll improve by more than the one (1) game that you give them.

Too many unknowns:
Jamarcus Russell 1st-round pick at QB
Darren McFadden 1st-round pick running & receiving
DeAngelo Hall 1st-round pick from Atlanta at CB
Javon Walker 1st-round pick from Denver at WR
William Joseph 1st-round pick from the Giants at DT
Kwame Harris 1st-round pick from SF somewhere on the O-line
Michael Bush running & receiving
John Wade from the Bucs at Center
Drew Carter from Carolina at WR
Kalimba Edwards from the Lions at DE
Greg Spires from the Bucs at DE
Edgerton Hartwell long-time backup to Ray Lewis at LB
Gibril Wilson from the Giants at SS allowing Michael Huff to move to FS
Michael Huff at FS

theAPAOps5
05-27-2008, 12:01 AM
Your an idiot, just have to put that out there. Just because you have no knowledge of some of our players doesn't mean they are all crap.

Albert is not a LT? Well, we'll see. He is already lining up at left tackle in OTA's.

We have no runningbacks? And LJ is done? Wishful thinking. He isn't anywhere close to done. His injury last year had absolutely nothing to do with his heavy load the previous season. And even if he was done, we did just draft a runningback in the 3rd round this year. A guy by the name of Jamaal Charles. 4.38 speed, put up better stats than Darren McFadden this year, still has alot of room to grow, yadda yadda yadda. And then there is still Kolby Smith who showed some promise last year. It's funny how you guys talk about all the injuries Selvin Young had being the reason for him not being drafted but when LJ has his first major injury throughout college or the NFL and you proclaim he is done? He does happen to be younger than Travis Henry. I see absolutely NO reason to believe he is done.

No center? Well, again we will see. Rudy Niswanger showed promise at right guard last year and should be even better at center. Just because you have no knowledge of him does not mean we have no center.

No kicker? I guess you could say the same for your team. Same goes for punter for you guys.

No left tackle? That's Branden Albert.

1 receiver? We'll see. Jeff Webb still has some promise and speedster Will Franklin has been impressive in OTA's. He has looked better than Dwayne Bowe did a year ago, who at this point was dropping balls left and right in OTA's.

No safeties? I'll take our safeties over the crap you have in Denver. John Lynch is done, Hamza Abdullah is crap (teams wouldn't even give up a 7th round pick for him as an RFA), Marquand Manuel sucks, and Marlon McCree is average at best. I'll take Jarrad Page and Bernard Pollard over that junk. And some considered 3rd round pick Dajuan Morgan to be the best free safety in the draft.

I think there is an idiot posting on this thread but its not Kaylor, its not KCStud. Nope its your kiddie ass. Seems like nothing has changed for you.

Greybeard
05-27-2008, 12:06 AM
Your an idiot, just have to put that out there. Just because you have no knowledge of some of our players doesn't mean they are all crap.

Albert is not a LT? Well, we'll see. He is already lining up at left tackle in OTA's.

We have no runningbacks? And LJ is done? Wishful thinking. He isn't anywhere close to done. His injury last year had absolutely nothing to do with his heavy load the previous season. And even if he was done, we did just draft a runningback in the 3rd round this year. A guy by the name of Jamaal Charles. 4.38 speed, put up better stats than Darren McFadden this year, still has alot of room to grow, yadda yadda yadda. And then there is still Kolby Smith who showed some promise last year. It's funny how you guys talk about all the injuries Selvin Young had being the reason for him not being drafted but when LJ has his first major injury throughout college or the NFL and you proclaim he is done? He does happen to be younger than Travis Henry. I see absolutely NO reason to believe he is done.

No center? Well, again we will see. Rudy Niswanger showed promise at right guard last year and should be even better at center. Just because you have no knowledge of him does not mean we have no center.

No kicker? I guess you could say the same for your team. Same goes for punter for you guys.

No left tackle? That's Branden Albert.

1 receiver? We'll see. Jeff Webb still has some promise and speedster Will Franklin has been impressive in OTA's. He has looked better than Dwayne Bowe did a year ago, who at this point was dropping balls left and right in OTA's.

No safeties? I'll take our safeties over the crap you have in Denver. John Lynch is done, Hamza Abdullah is crap (teams wouldn't even give up a 7th round pick for him as an RFA), Marquand Manuel sucks, and Marlon McCree is average at best. I'll take Jarrad Page and Bernard Pollard over that junk. And some considered 3rd round pick Dajuan Morgan to be the best free safety in the draft.

:laugh: Haunting the environs again, KMart?

You going to defend your Chiefs all the way through another 4 -12 season? :laugh:

-----

Ugly Duck
05-27-2008, 12:17 AM
Oakland passing on Dorsey was a huge blunder.

Maybe not so much in light of the fact that, in spite of how bad our run defense was, our offense was even worse. We had zero playmakers. Zip. Nada. Zilch. For a team as bad as this, getting a playmaker was equally as important as getting a run-stuffer:

Detroit L-21-36 Oakland did not score in the first half.

At Denver L- 20-23 Scored three points in the first half.

Kansas City L 10-12 Shut out in the first half.

At Tennessee L 9-13 Shut out in the second half.

Texans L- 17-24 Shut out in the first half.

Bears L- 6-17 Just two field goals.

KCStud
05-27-2008, 12:28 AM
Maybe not so much in light of the fact that, in spite of how bad our run defense was, our offense was even worse. We had zero playmakers. Zip. Nada. Zilch. For a team as bad as this, getting a playmaker was equally as important as getting a run-stuffer:

Detroit L-21-36 Oakland did not score in the first half.

At Denver L- 20-23 Scored three points in the first half.

Kansas City L 10-12 Shut out in the first half.

At Tennessee L 9-13 Shut out in the second half.

Texans L- 17-24 Shut out in the first half.

Bears L- 6-17 Just two field goals.

I wouldn't be bragging about beating KC last season. That game was with no LJ. I believe Kolby Smith had a great outing against you guys. 150 yards and 2 TD's if I remember correctly

Pat Bowlen
05-27-2008, 12:45 AM
Oakland and KC fans trying to give each other a hard time about bragging about beating each other's teams? I've been told that there's always further to fall in life, but never thought I'd find the bottom here.

400HZ
05-27-2008, 12:46 AM
So you're betting the Broncos don't win more than 8 games?

Sure Kaylore. I'll bet a one month sig that Denver wins 8 games or less this year.

Ugly Duck
05-27-2008, 01:05 AM
I wouldn't be bragging about beating KC last season.

I was talking about the game where we pathetically failed to score in the first half. You beat us. Nothing for me to brag about in that game.

broncocalijohn
05-27-2008, 01:49 AM
Chargers 12-4
Denver 9 -7
Faiders 6-10
Chiefs 5-11

I want to swing Denver to 10 and 6 but too early for me to tell. KC had what it looks like a good draft but losing all those games in a row last season cannot improve that much. Faiders have players to be a 7 to 8 win team but come on, we are talking about the faiders.

kmartin575
05-27-2008, 02:20 AM
:laugh: Haunting the environs again, KMart?

You going to defend your Chiefs all the way through another 4 -12 season? :laugh:

-----

Never said we were going to be a good team. But Kaylore is a complete tool who believes we have absolutely no talent. I find it hysterical when he bashes our safeties and kicker particularly. Uhh, have you seen your own situation at those positions? I wouldn't brag about them.

kmartin575
05-27-2008, 02:39 AM
Albert doesn't have the measurables to play left tackle. He isn't quick enough. You're talking about a guy who played guard in college and you want to put him on the blind side of your QB to completely re-learn a position? I hope you guys try that against us. If they really want to play him at tackle, I suspect they try him at RT first and see how he does outside. Even if Clady works out, that still leaves one side of your line that isn't any good and a hole filled interior.

That won't last long. He'll play have some marginal success and then be out football in a couple of years. He's following the same process every other power back has that goes over 400 carries. First they go 400 carries, then they get hurt the following year. Then they come back for one marginal year. Then they are benched and out of football. I watched LJ run last year and even before his injury he wasn't the same player and you know it.
Basically Charles has to break out because you have one average guy. Are you really expecting your undrafted free agent to contribute? You're not the Broncos. While on paper your depth looks good, no one there scares me.

So a guy with limited playing time coming of a torn up knee is the answer?

Will Franklin isn't very smart. He also doesn't have great hands. He's also kind of raw. You are telling me that you honestly believe that he's going win the the number two receiver spot on your team?

Yes it is deep. However the quality of that depth isn't very good. Wesley was better than Pollard. A rookie corner on the other side isn't going to help a now very aged Pat Surtain.

They also have just as many holes. It will take another draft like this one before you guys can start being competitive again.




Dorsey will help your interior, but you lost Allen which will show. Hali isn't going to do well. He already had a major threat on the other side and even with more one-on-one situations he only managed 7 sacks. Now he's the guy and it will be very easy to shut him down.

As for your line, it is now a bunch of unproven's and unknowns. Albert is a great prospect - at RT or Guard. That has more to do with running the ball than getting a new RB. It's a good thing Croyle is mobile, but it's not good that he's so injury prone.

And what about your special teams? Your kicker is and return game is terrible.

I just don't see it. You guys would have to have everyone you brought in work out for your team to get 8 wins. For a pretty unlucky franchise that's expecting a lot. If I were a Chiefs fan I would just trust the plan. Expect a bad season on paper next year with the understanding that we were building toward something better in the long term and in two or three years we could be a good team.

The Chiefs drafted him to play tackle. Albert is already lining up at left tackle in OTA's. But I suppose some armchair quarterback knows more than our coaches and front office.

Go ahead, keep doubting LJ. It's getting old. The "400+ carry then a runningback is trash theory" is trash itself. It doesn't take into account runningbacks who have run in the playoffs and put up over 400 carries. Emmitt Smith put up 400+ carries when you count the playoffs 3 or 4 times in his career and he came close several other times. Don't worry though. LJ will be back to running all over your defense this year.

Yes, Rudy Niswanger is the answer. And he has already been cleared to practice. Thanks for asking though.

I'll still take our safeties over the old trash you have on your roster. And no, Wesley was not better than Pollard.

Hali will be very easy to shutdown? I really hope you believe that. Hali has played injured these past two years and he still put up more sacks in 2006 than the wonderful Jared Allen. It's amazing how guys like Aaron Kampman and Kyle Vanden Bosch can put up 3 or 4 sacks over their first 3 or 4 years in the NFL combined and then all of a sudden become pro bowlers but you already know after two fairly productive years that Tamba Hali has reached his peak. Sure thing buddy. I suppose he won't benefit at all by switching to the quarterbacks blind side and by not having to go up against the tight end as well as the right tackle. Go ahead and keep telling yourself that.

Nope, again, Branden Albert is a left tackle. He has all of the attributes you want out of a left tackle except for the experience. The only reason he didn't play left tackle in college was because D'Brickashaw Ferguson was there early on and then one of the nations top recruits was brought in, Eugene Monroe. Instead of making 2 players learn 2 new positions they left Albert at guard and put Monroe at left tackle.

Our special teams suck? Have you looked at your kicker and punter, or lackthereof? Our punter blows whatever trash you have out of the water and our kicker situation isn't any worse off than yours is. And our return game sucked? Yes, it did. So that is why we signed B.J. Sams as a free agent and drafted WR Kevin Robinson, a player who had 8 returns for touchdowns in college. Jamaal Charles and his 4.38 speed can also return kicks as well.




Go ahead and assume Ryan Clady is going to be a good tackle. In has last 2 games ever in college Clady gave up 3 sacks against the likes of Hawaii and East Carolina, not exactly supremely talented teams. Can't wait to go against him. And what a wonderful pick that career special teamer Eddie Royal was. Will never be productive as a wide receiver. He sure as hell wasn't in college.

kmartin575
05-27-2008, 02:43 AM
I don't think he sucks but he's clearly not worth the 1st round pick.

He's played with about 3rd round talent so far. Average starter, nothing special...

Neither is Jarvis Moss. At least Hali can stay on the field.

Greybeard
05-27-2008, 03:14 AM
Never said we were going to be a good team. But Kaylore is a complete tool who believes we have absolutely no talent. I find it hysterical when he bashes our safeties and kicker particularly. Uhh, have you seen your own situation at those positions? I wouldn't brag about them.


Well yes, we are pretty deep at safety, actually. One of them went to the Pro
Bowl. McCree comes over from the Chargers, and their defensive numbers
actually improved when he assumed the starting role there. Manuel also has
has starting experience, as has Abdullah. And even though Josh Barrett was a
7th round draft choice, Jay Goldberg (http://www.900footballlinks.net/broncosframe.htm) had him rated as the top strong safety in
the draft.

Regarding kicker, from all I have read about Matt Prater (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=8274), we may have scored
a Bingo with him. He has a leg that consistently produces touchbacks on
kickoffs, and he has been working his butt off this offseason on accuracy.

Although many around here seem worried about punter, we have Danny
Baugher (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=8626), whom I saw go through college right here in Tucson, where he had
a 47.5 yard average on his punts. His jaw-dropping moonshots were routine
here. He was stymied in the pros by a leg injury, but he seems back 100%
now.

There's a rundown on our kicking and safety situations. Not quite what you
thought, were they?

Regarding your team, I see so many holes that trying to win will be like trying
to hold water in a colander. I know you have added quite a few people, but
we have, too, and where you have added in many of the positions, we already
were stocked.

But hang in there. I'm sure your team will again go to the playoffs before you
are on Medicare. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/coffee.gif

-----

Kaylore
05-27-2008, 09:48 AM
BLAH BLAH BLAH I'm a giant mangina

How is saying we don't have a punter or kicker either make it ok that you don't? The different is we will have an offense. And contrary to your insisting otherwise, Albert is not a LT and moving him out of position into the pros and having him start is about the stupidest thing ever. But if bagging the Broncos problems makes it feel like your problems is ok, it only proves that Chief fans are obsessed with the Broncos and only care about their team in the context of how they compare to us.;)

Kaylore
05-27-2008, 09:49 AM
Sure Kaylore. I'll bet a one month sig that Denver wins 8 games or less this year.

Popsicle! I'll take that bet. I still think it's funny that you would "put money on 6 to 10" and then when I'm betting you nothing real you start back-peddling up to 8. Ok then. Denver wins 9 games and I win. They don't, and you win.

400HZ
05-27-2008, 09:57 AM
I'll take that bet. I still think it's funny that you would "put money on 6 to 10" and then when I'm betting you nothing real you start back-peddling up to 8. Ok then. Denver wins 9 games and I win. They don't, and you win.

Hey, if you're predicting 11 wins then taking 9+ should be easy for you. My initial guess was 8, so your estimate is padded alot better than mine is.

Ugly Duck
05-27-2008, 10:13 AM
Chargers 12-4
Denver 9 -7
Faiders 6-10
Chiefs 5-11

Faiders have players to be a 7 to 8 win team but come on, we are talking about the faiders.

A terrible team that damn near swept the Broncos last season.

Inkana7
05-27-2008, 12:28 PM
A terrible team that damn near swept the Broncos last season.

It took a damn near 2nd half collapse to make the first game that close. If's and but's are fun but facts are better!

TheChamp24
05-27-2008, 12:44 PM
I think its hilarious we have a couple Chief fans trying to turn a turn into a salisbury steak. Face it, your team has high question marks and you guys are banking on some young players to turn into solid players. Can't you guys just maybe think that Albert can't play LT?

Merlin
05-27-2008, 01:02 PM
SD 11-5 I still have no faith in Norv. This team should win the SB...but for its coaching (I'll even admit the quality despite my poor opinion of Rivers).

Denver 10-6 A lot of things have to go Denver's way, but I think this yr they do. Easier schedule, better offence, better defence, and better ST. Some like to point out Denver could have lost another 3 last yr...well, they could have just as easily won another 3. That would have made them 10-6 with a lousy team and difficult schedule. This yr it is better all around. Denver kool-aid, I'll have a glass. At least 10 wins.

Raiders 5-11. This team is going to regress. The FO is a shambles. The O will actually get worse despite all the dreaming going on in Faiderland (you have a rookie QB that in the best of times would give you a losing season, forget with this team and its lousy D [their good D was two seasons ago, that is why they fired the D coordinator]).

KC 4-12. Far too many wholes in this team. And to suggest just because a team wants to move a guard to LT it makes him good is LUDICROUS!. He was not good enough to be a LT in college, but in his first yr in the NFL he is going to be at least avg? He will stink at LT in his first yr, the question is if there is good enough talent to become a decent one (NOT A GREAT ONE), and not having ever done it at COLLEGE would indicate this is a long term project. Your D just got worse short term (but it may get better in a couple of yrs because of the trade, the jury is still out). You have absolutely no offence because you can't protect a QB that has some talent, but has yet to prove he can do anything long term but get hurt. ST, well, lets just say you have done little to try an improve it, and although Denver has many questions, it has a FAR BETTER offence and it made many moves to improve its STs.

no-pseudo-fan
05-27-2008, 01:48 PM
I see at least 10 wins. We had the worst luck last year. Top WR out, 2 starting OL out, 1 OT whose skills were not up to par. Starting RB in and out, 2nd string RB in and out, injuries on the DL, guys playing out of position at LB, a defensive system that didn't fit our personnel.

This lead to inconsistant play, we beat Pitt, Tenn last year, and gave GB all they could handle and should've one.

bronco militia
05-27-2008, 02:09 PM
Denver 9-7
San Diego 8-8
KC 7-9
Oakland 6-10

KCStud
05-27-2008, 02:13 PM
I think Albert should be fine at LT. He works very well in space. I know people are going here are going to blast me for this, but I did not like Ryan Clady very well as a prospect. For awhile there I thought KC might take him, especially since our very own Will Shields was working with him.

Clady did not look good at the end of his season at Boise State. He got utterly dominated by DE's from Hawaii. He gave up 2 sacks and multiple QB pressures. Then when he did the bench press he gets to the 20's and suddenly gets hurt. Scouts wanted him to do the bench again after time to recover and he apparently refuses. I think his strength could be a problem.
From what I saw of Clady, he is quick and his wingspan is incredible, but he gets pushed back often and can't finish often. His technique was said to be a problem, but I think he got better while working with Will Shields over the offseason. Honestly I liked Long, Albert and Williams as better prospects.

We'll see how both do. I don't see Albert being a failure at LT, but even if he is, we plug him in at G and he becomes a dominant G

rovolution
05-27-2008, 02:15 PM
I hate to admit it, but this is an extremely good argument. Jay didn't catch the diabetes until after last season, and I'm personally very worried about how he'll cope.

I was under the impression he caught it during last season. He said he was feeling the effects in November.

Said everytime he got back to the huddle, he felt like passing out, yet he still played pretty well (his undiagnosed diabetes sure didnt look like it hampered him when he was tossing 4 TDs against the Chorfs in 3 quarters).

boltaneer
05-27-2008, 02:40 PM
I think Albert should be fine at LT. He works very well in space. I know people are going here are going to blast me for this, but I did not like Ryan Clady very well as a prospect. For awhile there I thought KC might take him, especially since our very own Will Shields was working with him.

Clady did not look good at the end of his season at Boise State. He got utterly dominated by DE's from Hawaii. He gave up 2 sacks and multiple QB pressures. Then when he did the bench press he gets to the 20's and suddenly gets hurt. Scouts wanted him to do the bench again after time to recover and he apparently refuses. I think his strength could be a problem.
From what I saw of Clady, he is quick and his wingspan is incredible, but he gets pushed back often and can't finish often. His technique was said to be a problem, but I think he got better while working with Will Shields over the offseason. Honestly I liked Long, Albert and Williams as better prospects.

We'll see how both do. I don't see Albert being a failure at LT, but even if he is, we plug him in at G and he becomes a dominant G

While he has the skill set to play it, Albert has very limited experience at tackle. I could definitely see him being put at guard for now and be switched there later on if he can handle it. Throwing him immediately out there at LT may not be the smartest move.

KCStud
05-27-2008, 02:49 PM
While he has the skill set to play it, Albert has very limited experience at tackle. I could definitely see him being put at guard for now and be switched there later on if he can handle it. Throwing him immediately out there at LT may not be the smartest move.

Right now he's playing LT in OTA's and he probably will be there quite a bit in training camp and preseason, but I'm willing to bet that during the season he will start at RT and switch after a few weeks

Kaylore
05-27-2008, 02:58 PM
Right now he's playing LT in OTA's and he probably will be there quite a bit in training camp and preseason, but I'm willing to bet that during the season he will start at RT and switch after a few weeks

:rofl: Oh ok. Just a few snaps during OTA's, a few games and he'll be able to start at left tackle! No problem at all! Easy as pie!:tinfoilha

sixtimeseight
05-27-2008, 06:59 PM
I was under the impression he caught it during last season. He said he was feeling the effects in November.

Said everytime he got back to the huddle, he felt like passing out, yet he still played pretty well (his undiagnosed diabetes sure didnt look like it hampered him when he was tossing 4 TDs against the Chorfs in 3 quarters).

You don't "catch" diabetes. It's not the ****ing common cold.

rovolution
05-27-2008, 07:10 PM
You don't "catch" diabetes. It's not the ****ing common cold.

ok. sorry. ill rephrase. I thought he began to show symptoms of diabetes in November. Didnt mean to offend anyone

KCStud
05-27-2008, 08:34 PM
:rofl: Oh ok. Just a few snaps during OTA's, a few games and he'll be able to start at left tackle! No problem at all! Easy as pie!:tinfoilha

Not sure I think Herm wants him there to take the snaps so he can be familiar with the position. I think we are going to have to put him at LT because McIntosh is not a LT. He is a RT IMO. He can cover but he is a below average run blocker.

I'm sure he'll go through a few struggles like Clady, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he started at LT in week 1

KCStud
05-27-2008, 10:36 PM
KC 4-12. Far too many wholes in this team. And to suggest just because a team wants to move a guard to LT it makes him good is LUDICROUS!. He was not good enough to be a LT in college, but in his first yr in the NFL he is going to be at least avg? He will stink at LT in his first yr, the question is if there is good enough talent to become a decent one (NOT A GREAT ONE), and not having ever done it at COLLEGE would indicate this is a long term project. Your D just got worse short term (but it may get better in a couple of yrs because of the trade, the jury is still out). You have absolutely no offence because you can't protect a QB that has some talent, but has yet to prove he can do anything long term but get hurt. ST, well, lets just say you have done little to try an improve it, and although Denver has many questions, it has a FAR BETTER offence and it made many moves to improve its STs.

Albert was good enough to play LT. He actually played a few games at LT and did well. He played G because Virginia got an outstanding LT prospect from high school who could only play LT. Virginia's coach wanted the 5 best OL out on the field and Albert was flexible so he played G. I forgot the kids name. Eugene something. But he is first round material and I think he is a projected first rounder

Kaylore
05-27-2008, 10:51 PM
I'm sure he'll go through a few struggles like Clady, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he started at LT in week 1
If he does your season will look exactly like it did last year. Croyle will not have time.

Ugly Duck
05-27-2008, 11:33 PM
It took a damn near 2nd half collapse to make the first game that close. If's and but's are fun but facts are better!

Last Game Facts: Oak 34, Den 20
Fact: Cutler passing 0 TDs, 2 INTs
Fact: Raider passing 3 TDs, 0 INTs
Fact: Denver rushing 86 yards, Raiders 175

Fact: You didn't just lose the last game, the lowly & pathetic, horrid & horrific Raiders beat you.

Atwater His Ass
05-27-2008, 11:38 PM
I like how the KC fans like to draw a parallel to Denver with every argument they make. Why can't they look at their team without making a Denver comparasion? It's comical.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-28-2008, 12:06 AM
Chargers 11-5
Broncos 8-8
Chiefs 7-9
Raiders 6-10

KCStud
05-28-2008, 01:30 AM
If he does your season will look exactly like it did last year. Croyle will not have time.

One could say the same for Denver, Houston, Chicago and Miami as they have 1st round LT's. It happened last year for Joe Staley in SF. Even Joe Thomas had struggles at the beginning of the season. Jared Allen tore him up in his first real action in the preseason.

The system that our new OC is going to implement will be the 2 TE set which I'm willing to bet that we put Cottam, who excels at blocking, on the outside to help Albert.

Another blocker that will help the team is FB Mike Cox. He played under Gailey at GT last season, so he knows the system. He has excellent size for a FB and is an outstanding blocker. KC hasnt' had a true FB since T-Rich. We put a poor TE and a LB at FB.

KC also drafted Barry Richardson who was an All-American RT who was known for being a good in pass protection.

Kaylore
05-28-2008, 09:21 AM
You're not going to be going 2 tight ends every down, and even when you do, assuming you keep both in to block, that leaves Bowe and some nobody's to throw to. And again, comparing Albert to Staley, D'Brick and Thomas is ridiculous because they played LT in college. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Position changes are hard especially when going from a hard one to a harder one. The game speed alone will give Albert problems. Asking him to also play one of the most difficult positions on the line is going to make things harder, not easier.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-28-2008, 10:22 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about Albert. Worry more about your tiny defensive ends getting creamed by him.

KCStud
05-28-2008, 12:31 PM
You're not going to be going 2 tight ends every down, and even when you do, assuming you keep both in to block, that leaves Bowe and some nobody's to throw to. And again, comparing Albert to Staley, D'Brick and Thomas is ridiculous because they played LT in college. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Position changes are hard especially when going from a hard one to a harder one. The game speed alone will give Albert problems. Asking him to also play one of the most difficult positions on the line is going to make things harder, not easier.

Nobody's? I would read this. I think Franklin will be decent WR at the least. He was very underrated at Mizzou and was overshadowed by Maclin and Rucker.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/636751.html

As for Albert, yes I agree with you. He is going to struggle sometimes. But simply because he didn't play LT doesn't mean that he will never be able to. We won't be running 2 TE sets every play. My point was that we are going to do everything to help him. I believe that he does have the feet, strength and smarts to be a LT and so does everybody else. His technique is what people worry about because he is not a "polished" LT.

Oh I also took your quote about KC's RB's and put it on my sig just in case :approve:

400HZ
05-28-2008, 12:46 PM
Nobody's? I would read this. I think Franklin will be decent WR at the least. He was very underrated at Mizzou and was overshadowed by Maclin and Rucker.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/636751.html

As for Albert, yes I agree with you. He is going to struggle sometimes. But simply because he didn't play LT doesn't mean that he will never be able to. We won't be running 2 TE sets every play. My point was that we are going to do everything to help him. I believe that he does have the feet, strength and smarts to be a LT and so does everybody else. His technique is what people worry about because he is not a "polished" LT.

Oh I also took your quote about KC's RB's and put it on my sig just in case :approve:

I think Albert is going to be really good. Kaylore has a point that it might be better to play him at LG or RT for a while, but he has all the physical tools to eventually be a very good left tackle. If the coaches want him to take some early knocks moving to left tackle right away, then who really cares? The Chiefs aren't going anywhere this season and for some strange reason KC and Edwards seem to have the best job security in the NFL. Albert isn't a perfect prospect, but neither are Long or Clady.

Kaylore
05-28-2008, 12:53 PM
The Chiefs aren't going anywhere this season

That's the point I'm making. I gave a list of why they will suck this year and he got all whiny that I was disrespecting them. I don't think the Chiefs get that they expect to suck this year. They knew they would when they blew the team up and started over. Yet for some reason right around this time Chief fans convince themselves that they're going to be awesome this year. They plan on all their draft picks starting and all their veterans improving. By July they have talked themselves into being playoff contenders. Then the season starts and its downhill from there.

I say again, Chief fans: Just be patient and hope for more drafts like this last year's and in a few years you will be competitive again.

KCStud
05-28-2008, 01:05 PM
That's the point I'm making. I gave a list of why they will suck this year and he got all whiny that I was disrespecting them. I don't think the Chiefs get that they expect to suck this year. They knew they would when they blew the team up and started over. Yet for some reason right around this time Chief fans convince themselves that they're going to be awesome this year. They plan on all their draft picks starting and all their veterans improving. By July they have talked themselves into being playoff contenders. Then the season starts and its downhill from there.

I say again, Chief fans: Just be patient and hope for more drafts like this last year's and in a few years you will be competitive again.

Chiefs fans know the team isn't going to the playoffs. I haven't seen any Chiefs fan say they will. I do think that the team will be better then last years team. I stick by my guns. 6-10

400HZ
05-28-2008, 01:10 PM
That's the point I'm making. I gave a list of why they will suck this year and he got all whiny that I was disrespecting them. I don't think the Chiefs get that they expect to suck this year. They knew they would when they blew the team up and started over. Yet for some reason right around this time Chief fans convince themselves that they're going to be awesome this year. They plan on all their draft picks starting and all their veterans improving. By July they have talked themselves into being playoff contenders. Then the season starts and its downhill from there.

I say again, Chief fans: Just be patient and hope for more drafts like this last year's and in a few years you will be competitive again.

A lot of fans manage to do this. You probably feel that way about the Broncos. Football isn't any fun if you can't summon up some optimism for your team. You know that Chef fans are deluding themselves just like I know that Bronco fans are deluding themselves. ;D

Kaylore
05-28-2008, 01:17 PM
A lot of fans manage to do this. You probably feel that way about the Broncos. Football isn't any fun if you can't summon up some optimism for your team. You know that Chef fans are deluding themselves just like I know that Bronco fans are deluding themselves. ;D

Enjoy your sig while you can.

boltaneer
05-28-2008, 01:29 PM
A lot of these KC draft picks probably will be starting because Herm doesn't really have any other choice but to do so.

I don't really see it as a good thing.

Kaylore
05-28-2008, 02:30 PM
A lot of these KC draft picks probably will be starting because Herm doesn't really have any other choice but to do so.

I don't really see it as a good thing.

In the short term its not, but in the long term they will be ready sooner.

KCStud
05-28-2008, 03:14 PM
A lot of these KC draft picks probably will be starting because Herm doesn't really have any other choice but to do so.

I don't really see it as a good thing.

Depends on who you are talking about. I see Albert, Dorsey and Flowers are starters. If they were drafted by any other team then they would be starting too. FB Mike Cox will start too. He already knows the system and was very productive as a lead blocker for Tashard Choice at GT.
The rest of the players like Richardson, Johnston, Cottam, Charles, Morgan and Franklin are guys who probably won't start, but will play a lot.

I see 6 starters right now from the draft. Dorsey at DT, Albert at OT, Flowers at CB, Cox at FB, Robinson as the KR/PR and Barth at K

Inkana7
05-28-2008, 09:19 PM
Flowers would not start with any other team than one with dire CB needs.

KCStud
05-28-2008, 10:37 PM
Flowers would not start with any other team than one with dire CB needs.

I agree. Should have emphasized. I think he would have started for a team like GB or SD who were teams projected to take a CB in round 1

broncocalijohn
05-29-2008, 01:40 AM
A terrible team that damn near swept the Broncos last season.

what the hell does this prove? Did that "almost" sweep get you to 10 wins? 2nd place? It got you top, elite draft status. You will need to do more than "Almost" sweep the Broncos. I gave you 6 wins with the potential to win 7 or 8 but Faiders will find a way to screw that opportunity up. What can you possibly be questioning me on my 6 wins and 3rd place prediction for the Faiders? Maybe you think I gave too many wins for 2008. That could be true.

400HZ
05-29-2008, 06:16 AM
I agree. Should have emphasized. I think he would have started for a team like GB or SD who were teams projected to take a CB in round 1

He wouldn't start for either of those teams. Not even close. He'd be competing for the nickle spot on both.

Inkana7
05-29-2008, 08:00 AM
He wouldn't start for either of those teams. Not even close. He'd be competing for the nickle spot on both.

If that.

Raider Bill
05-30-2008, 09:20 AM
Raiders 5-11. This team is going to regress. The FO is a shambles. The O will actually get worse despite all the dreaming going on in Faiderland (you have a rookie QB that in the best of times would give you a losing season, forget with this team and its lousy D [their good D was two seasons ago, that is why they fired the D coordinator]).

Huh? Rob Ryan is still our DC and has been since 2004

Raider Bill
05-30-2008, 09:33 AM
To be honest, I see teams running all over the Faiders this season. They lost Warren Sapp to retirement and that's really gonna hurt them.

Warren Sapp was a terrible run defender.


I think them drafting McFadden over Dorsey was a huge mistake. Dorsey would have made their defense top 5 no doubt.

No he wouldn't have.


Raiders' opponents' running backs' gains:

Negative: 33 for -71
0-2 yards: 142 for 181 (.8 YPC)
3-4 yards: 88 for 303 (3.4)
5-9 yards: 85 for 572 (6.7)
10+ yards: 59 for 1107 (18.76)

Half of the Raiders rushing yards were allowed on plays not involving the DT, but rather involving Schweigert dryhumping a running back who broke into the secondary. If we cut that nearly 20 YPC on long runs in half and the S actually tackles the guy after 9 or 10 yards, that would result in 25% fewer yards allowed overall.




The Faiders were also 6th in the NFL in rush offense and 31st in rush defense. They have an impressive Justin Fargas and highly rated Michael Bush.


Fargas has never gone a season without getting hurt and Bush has never played and has injury concerns of his own.

Tombstone RJ
05-30-2008, 10:00 AM
Faiders are gonna flat out stink this coming season. Faid fans can sugar coat it all they want but J. Russell is a fat slob, the offensive line is questionable at best, the running game has depth and was, perhaps, the best part of the offense, so what does Davis do? He drafts McFadden.

The defense has overspent on a head case at CB, Huff is good and Ed. Hart is a nice pick up but the defensive line is nothing special. The LBs, aside from Hartwell, are mediocre at best. The secondary is has two good players.

Kiffen is in a bad situation and Al is too cheap to fire him. Right there you've got a front office at odds with the HC. Also, you've got the perennial azz kisser, Rob Ryan, sucking Al's unit (probably behind Kiffen's back) so he can take over the team once Kiffen get's canned.

It's a schit hole franchise that will not win more than 6 games.

Kaylore
05-30-2008, 10:04 AM
Half of the Raiders rushing yards were allowed on plays not involving the DT, but rather involving Schweigert dryhumping a running back who broke into the secondary.

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7493/facepalmcq5.jpg

sixtimeseight
05-30-2008, 10:12 AM
Warren Sapp was a terrible run defender.

Ah, gotta love Raiders revisionist history.

Hint: You don't get to be one of the top 5 DTs of all time and a sure fire first ballot hall of famer by being a "terrible run defender."

bfoflcommish
05-30-2008, 11:06 AM
here I go

SD 11-5
Denver 10-6
Raiders 7-9
Kc 5-11

Raider Bill
05-30-2008, 11:25 AM
Ah, gotta love Raiders revisionist history.

Hint: You don't get to be one of the top 5 DTs of all time and a sure fire first ballot hall of famer by being a "terrible run defender."

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/10/31/ramblings/every-play-counts/5682/

Kaylore
05-30-2008, 11:32 AM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/10/31/ramblings/every-play-counts/5682/

So just to recap:


You guys did the right thing drafting a running back because the other two really suck.
Your run defense sucked because Sapp, a defensive tackle, wasn't good at defending the run.
Wait, actually it wasn't the defensive tackles at all, but was in fact your safeties not tackling - even though you just said your D-tackles sucked and those same defensive tackles that "had nothing to do with run defense sucking" were allowing the running backs get to the secondary that was the "real problem."


Whatever you say, dude! :thumbsup:

Tombstone RJ
05-30-2008, 01:06 PM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/10/31/ramblings/every-play-counts/5682/

Wow, your brilliant. Did you read the entire story? Here's the last two paragraphs which pretty much sum up the entire faider's defense:

Sapp plays, basically, like the Raiders’ defense as a whole. Oakland ranks fifth in the NFL in DVOA against the pass, but dead last — by an enormous margin — against the run. I have always been a fan of the way Raiders defensive coordinator Rob Ryan’s players get after the quarterback, but that was because they were able to apply pressure while still being fundamentally sound against the run. That’s not the case anymore. Sapp is the most obvious culprit, but in addition to Sapp, the Raiders’ defensive backs have become one-dimensional. Last year the Raiders’ secondary would play aggressively against the run and make big plays, often with a safety in the box. Now they’ll line up with eight in the box and get run over. Safety Stuart Schweigert had a particularly bad effort trying to stop White Sunday.

In his Monday Morning Quarterback column this week, Peter King called White his offensive player of the week. But as Football Outsiders commenter Yaguar pointed out, you could almost always give the offensive player of the week award to a running back who plays against the Raiders. Sapp isn’t the only reason for that, but he’s such a liability against the run that he’s hardly worth having on the field at all, except in obvious passing situations. That the Raiders are using Sapp as an every-down player explains why they are the worst run defense in the league.

Raider Bill
05-30-2008, 05:17 PM
So just to recap:


You guys did the right thing drafting a running back because the other two really suck.
Your run defense sucked because Sapp, a defensive tackle, wasn't good at defending the run.
Wait, actually it wasn't the defensive tackles at all, but was in fact your safeties not tackling - even though you just said your D-tackles sucked and those same defensive tackles that "had nothing to do with run defense sucking" were allowing the running backs get to the secondary that was the "real problem."


Whatever you say, dude! :thumbsup:

Sapp was terrible. Since he's only a 3 technique guy he forced us to play Tom Kelly out of position at DE.

Schweigert as the 8th guy in an 8 man front defense is a recipe for disaster since he can't tackle. On the 12.5% of running plays that the DB's had to make the tackle, the opposition gained nearly 50% of their yards. I really don't feel like breaking down other teams, but imagine sticking Schweigert on the Colts and removing Bob Sanders, and you'd see the same result.

Gibril Wilson was the 2nd leading tackler on the Giants last season. Their defense was pretty good, no?

rovolution
05-30-2008, 05:25 PM
Huh? Rob Ryan is still our DC and has been since 2004

Too bad Lane wanted to give him the axe and Rob wanted to get out of his contract and go to the NY Jets to join his old buddy Mangini.

I love the FO and Coaching tensions in Jokeland!!!

rovolution
05-30-2008, 05:27 PM
Their defense was pretty good, no?

They have guys like Tuck, Strahan, and Osi on the front 4.

You have Burgess and a pile of overpaid crap.

Kaylore
05-30-2008, 05:54 PM
Sapp was terrible. Since he's only a 3 technique guy he forced us to play Tom Kelly out of position at DE.

Schweigert as the 8th guy in an 8 man front defense is a recipe for disaster since he can't tackle. On the 12.5% of running plays that the DB's had to make the tackle, the opposition gained nearly 50% of their yards. I really don't feel like breaking down other teams, but imagine sticking Schweigert on the Colts and removing Bob Sanders, and you'd see the same result.

Gibril Wilson was the 2nd leading tackler on the Giants last season. Their defense was pretty good, no?

Except you don't run a Tampa Cover 2.

KCStud
05-30-2008, 09:07 PM
Wait...Kaylore let me get this straight because I don't want to put words in your mouth. Do you think the Broncos will be 11-5 this season?

Ugly Duck
05-30-2008, 11:39 PM
J. Russell is a fat slob

One picture is worth a thousand words of bullshiet:

http://www.sbreport.net/OTA/JaMarcus_Russell.jpg

Tombstone RJ
05-31-2008, 09:54 AM
One picture is worth a thousand words of bullshiet:

http://www.sbreport.net/OTA/JaMarcus_Russell.jpg

So, how many games are the faid gonna win this year, with the slim Russell?

sixtimeseight
05-31-2008, 11:58 AM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/10/31/ramblings/every-play-counts/5682/

At least you freely admit that you don't have an original thought in your head and require other people to think for you. SOP for Raider's fans I suppose.

maher_tyler
05-31-2008, 12:17 PM
Not gonna make any predictions but you have to take into account that JC played last season with dibeties. We've improved both lines, i'd say at a minimum we have average lines on both sides, compaired to last year it's an improvement, so to say 6-10 is flat out dumb unless we have another injury pleagued season...if i had to take a guess i'd say 10-6...MAYBE 11-5, no better though.

Ugly Duck
05-31-2008, 08:39 PM
Oakland ranks fifth in the NFL in DVOA against the pass, but dead last — by an enormous margin — against the run. [/I]

DVOA? Huh? In real stats like they list at NFL.com, Miami was last in run defense. Oakland was last in rush yards per play at 4.8. Thats only like 7 inches worse than the Broncos (2nd worst in the league). Thats the Denver Broncos who gave up 4.6 yards per rush.... just inches better than the lowly Raiders. No way is that an "enormous margin." You guys were wallowing in the worst-against-the-rush cellar right there with Oakland.

Ugly Duck
05-31-2008, 08:43 PM
So, how many games are the faid gonna win this year, with the slim Russell?

As I said earlier, Oakland has too many new players on the team for people to estimate how they'll do. Gotta wait for the dust to settle before anyone knows whats there. However, I don't buy in to the assumption that spending a lot of money on offseason acquisitions neccesarily makes a team worse (hard to get worse than we were last season). Bad as the Raiders were, they still beat KC & Denver last time they played 'em. Also, Oakland had a tough Stength of Schedule (.516) last year. This time, they play a .395 strength of schedule up until December. Don't know enough yet to predict.

Too many unknowns:
Jamarcus Russell 1st-round pick at QB
Darren McFadden 1st-round pick running & receiving
DeAngelo Hall 1st-round pick from Atlanta at CB
Javon Walker 1st-round pick from Denver at WR
William Joseph 1st-round pick from the Giants at DT
Kwame Harris 1st-round pick from SF somewhere on the O-line
Michael Bush running & receiving
John Wade from the Bucs at Center
Drew Carter from Carolina at WR
Kalimba Edwards from the Lions at DE
Greg Spires from the Bucs at DE
Edgerton Hartwell long-time backup to Ray Lewis at LB
Gibril Wilson from the Giants at SS allowing Michael Huff to move to FS
Michael Huff at FS

Inkana7
05-31-2008, 08:44 PM
DVOA? Huh? In real stats like they list at NFL.com, Miami was last in run defense. Oakland was last in rush yards per play at 4.8. Thats only like 7 inches worse than the Broncos (2nd worst in the league). Thats the Denver Broncos who gave up 4.6 yards per rush.... just inches better than the lowly Raiders. No way is that an "enormous margin." You guys were wallowing in the worst-against-the-rush cellar right there with Oakland.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~wagnerr/DeflectionCard.jpg

Tombstone RJ
05-31-2008, 08:56 PM
DVOA? Huh? In real stats like they list at NFL.com, Miami was last in run defense. Oakland was last in rush yards per play at 4.8. Thats only like 7 inches worse than the Broncos (2nd worst in the league). Thats the Denver Broncos who gave up 4.6 yards per rush.... just inches better than the lowly Raiders. No way is that an "enormous margin." You guys were wallowing in the worst-against-the-rush cellar right there with Oakland.

We're not talking about the Broncos run defense, we're talking about the faiders lousy defense. The faid had the chance to draft Dorsey to improve the crappy defense, and took McFadden, when the running game was the only bright spot on the team.

Even if the faiders offense is better this year, the defense still stinks.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-31-2008, 09:37 PM
lol...someone pimped Kwame Harris?

Paladin
05-31-2008, 10:07 PM
Only the trolls are keeping this dumb thread going. Strange they need something from the Broncos fans, huh? Wonder what it could be???

spdirty
05-31-2008, 10:34 PM
Denver 16-0
SD 0-12-4
Oak 0-12-4
KC 0-12-4

Ugly Duck
05-31-2008, 11:16 PM
Even if the faiders offense is better this year, the defense still stinks.

Heck... with all the additions and changes - we don't really know that yet. Which was the point of my post. We don't know how much DeAngelo Hall will improve the secondary. We don't know if William Joseph will improve the defensive tackle play. We don't know how much Kalimba Edwards and Greg Spires will help Derrick Burgess at defensive end. We don't know how much Edgerton Hartwell will help at linebacker. We don't know how much Gibril Wilson will improve the stong safety position. We don't know how much Michael Huff moving back to his natural position at free safety will help out. That is hella changes... nobody knows if we'll still stink.

broncocalijohn
06-01-2008, 02:16 AM
Too bad Lane wanted to give him the axe and Rob wanted to get out of his contract and go to the NY Jets to join his old buddy Mangini.

I love the FO and Coaching tensions in Jokeland!!!

Have you seen our DC joke the last 4 years? Yes, Faiders have problems, but I am concerned if our D is going to be much better to get over the hump and make the playoffs. Faiders just want to be .500 . Regardless of where our goals are for the season, we have to wonder what Defense will work in Denver.

alanm
06-01-2008, 02:30 AM
Are you serious? I'm not even close to that optimistic about this team. But it's not about the wins for me this year. It's about seeing our young player progress. If we lose 10 games but see Brodie Croyle make alot of progress the it was a good season to me.

The Chiefs have a lot of young talent on paper but it won't manifest itself this year. They'll have good games and others look like total sh!t They'll be defense heavy most likely Top 10 with mediocre play on offense. One thing for certain is that I wouldn't overlook them on the schedule. Too young to contend for the division. This year. :wiggle:
6-10 to 8-8 at best.

alanm
06-01-2008, 02:54 AM
One picture is worth a thousand words of bullshiet:

http://www.sbreport.net/OTA/JaMarcus_Russell.jpg

UD, You're forgetting that he'll have a month off before TC starts. I hope the Raiders have assigned a guy to knock the Cheeto's out of his hand during vacation. ;D

Killericon
06-01-2008, 03:33 AM
My highly uninformed predictions:

SD: 11-5

Their tough schedule will slow them down. However, their defense is still top 3 in the NFL. Their O-Line is great, they still have LT, and their receiving corps is superb. The only(and I do mean only) thing that I take issue with here is Norv, but if he can keep up what he did last year, they should keep up the status quo.

DEN: 10-6

I'll be the first to admit that we need to have some luck to get here. Clady needs to be at least decent. Either Colbert or Jackson need to step up. Scheffler needs to be healthy. We NEED a solution at MLB, be it someone on the roster, a training camp cut, or having DJ move back to MLB. Robertson needs to be healthy, and we need to turn thins around on special teams. Having said all that, I have faith. Cutler is the real mother****ing deal. We are deep at RB and across the O-Line. Having Dewayne should help the run defense, which allows Champ to keep his eyes on the QB and not the RB, which should mask some of our weakness at S. Not to mention that our entire O-Line is returning with the exception of Lepsis, who was flat out bad last year. I think Clady can do better than he did. I think the biggest question for us, however, is if Niko and DeWayne can improve our Run D enough. That's what it'll come down to.

KC: 6-10

Ultimately, I don't think Croyle is a starting QB. This is a young team with some real strengths, but there are major, MAJOR concerns here. I think LJ is done. Maybe not in terms of him actually playing, but he is not the LJ of old. He'll be average to good this year. While I think that Albert will be a good LT, I don't think it will happen this year. LT is a position that rookies don't usually succeed at, even when they've been playing it their entire collegiate careers. RG and C are big questions, and I'm still not a buyer of the Damien McIntosh brand. I think your D-Line won't be a problem, and will grow into a strength. CB is a HUGE question mark. Surtain wasn't exactly shutting anyone down last year, and I have no faith in anyone else who will be back there. I think the Chiefs are essentially the antithesis of the Broncos...Passing Game and Pass Defense are the big question marks here...Why don't I think you'll do better, though? For almost every problem on the Broncos roster, we have a solution. Some of the solutions aren't great, but they're there, and have a decent shot at working. The Chiefs have problems with no solution. A team in rebuilding(I must say, they're doing a bang-up job on the rebuilding effort, but they need a QB).

OAK: 5-11

Should have taken Dorsey. The running game in Oakland was fine(at least, in terms of backs), and they spend a 4th overall pick on McFadden. Oy-vey. I don't quite know what to think of JaMarcus, but I do know that wherever it is that he's going with his career...He isn't going to be there this season. Maybe he will be a great QB, but I doubt very much that he'll be one this season. The Oakland O-Line has taken steps, but it's still a big-time weakness. I think that DeAngelo Hall is overrated, but he should do fine as a #2 CB. I think that Huff and Wilson will make for a very average safety tandem. In the defensive trenches, though, lies more problems. Huge, gargantuan problems. Burgess was rumoured to be getting cut at one point this offseason, and I suppose it could still happen. Warren and Howard are basically the only competent players here. I don't really think I need to justify my lack of faith in the Oakland Raiders.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-01-2008, 05:10 AM
For almost every problem on the Broncos roster, we have a solution. Some of the solutions aren't great, but they're there, and have a decent shot at working. The Chiefs have problems with no solution.

Yeah, that's garbage.

The Chiefs and the Broncos both have problems in run defense.

Our solution is Glenn Dorsey and Tank Tyler maturing into dominant starters at defensive tackle. It might not work out, but it has a better chance of working than say...hoping your pothead DT works out and praying for a miracle with Dewayne Robertson.

The Chiefs and the Broncos both have problems at safety. The Chiefs hoped to address it by drafting three young talented safeties. It might not work out, but it has a better chance of working than depending on Hamza Abdullah.

I don't really see any problems on our roster with potential "solutions" that are any worse off than yours. Can you give me an example? We also have the advantage of having a head coach who actually knows talent, an obvious weakness of Mike Shanahan at this point.

I don't really like your point about left tackle, either. Can you give me an example of a left tackle that had to grow into the position? Usually guys come out and are either good or suck. Case in point - Marcus McNeill/Robert Gallery.

Anyway, I see the Broncos and Chiefs as being in the same boat. Both clubs are young with one side of the ball currently sitting in the trash heap (Den -defense. KC - offense). The Broncos have the advantage of having already found their quarterback, but now he has diabeetus. OH ****!

By the way, I do agree with you on Larry Johnson. I hope he's back to form, but no one knows what he'll look like. Guess we'll find out.

400HZ
06-01-2008, 09:08 AM
Yeah, that's garbage.

The Chiefs and the Broncos both have problems in run defense.

Our solution is Glenn Dorsey and Tank Tyler maturing into dominant starters at defensive tackle. It might not work out, but it has a better chance of working than say...hoping your pothead DT works out and praying for a miracle with Dewayne Robertson.

The Chiefs and the Broncos both have problems at safety. The Chiefs hoped to address it by drafting three young talented safeties. It might not work out, but it has a better chance of working than depending on Hamza Abdullah.

I don't really see any problems on our roster with potential "solutions" that are any worse off than yours. Can you give me an example? We also have the advantage of having a head coach who actually knows talent, an obvious weakness of Mike Shanahan at this point.

I don't really like your point about left tackle, either. Can you give me an example of a left tackle that had to grow into the position? Usually guys come out and are either good or suck. Case in point - Marcus McNeill/Robert Gallery.

Anyway, I see the Broncos and Chiefs as being in the same boat. Both clubs are young with one side of the ball currently sitting in the trash heap (Den -defense. KC - offense). The Broncos have the advantage of having already found their quarterback, but now he has diabeetus. OH ****!

By the way, I do agree with you on Larry Johnson. I hope he's back to form, but no one knows what he'll look like. Guess we'll find out.

I was going to rep this until I read who posted it.

KC got a lot of quality, long term solutions this offseason. They had to have a laughable 2007 season and then dump their best player to do it, but they did address many areas with high quality rookies. You have to be drooling over that draft class. Saying that your team addressed needs better than KC because of another haul of dubious free agents and trades is pretty ignorant in today's NFL.

That One Guy
06-01-2008, 09:30 AM
Is the fact that KC has no competent QB on the roster not a problem without a solution? I think I saw one game where Croyle played well for a stretch... more often though, he showed backup material.

I see Shaun Alexander all over again in LJ. Must be carrying around all that bags of money but those contracts sure do take their toll on the body. I don't care who you have that you THINK will rise to the challenge, giving someone LJ's contract and then getting no production for it is definitely a problem.

I'd say both DT corps are about the same talent but Denver's has more concerns staying on the field. Getting rid of Jared Allen wont help anyone on your Dline perform better next year though.

I'll take Denver's secondary as a whole over KC's secondary as a whole. Good DBs don't need quite as much S support as bad DBs do. It always helps, but a good DB shouldn't have to rely on it. All you really need at S is competency.

KC, at this point, essentially only has a promising receiver in Bowe and the ageless wonder Tony G. Eventually, Tony's age will catch up to him. He's going to start slowing down and be more succeptible to injury - it's a fact.

Without skill players, you just can't score points. KC may be able to stay in a bunch of boring games but when it comes down to it, you have to be able to outscore your opponents. Even being that generous to their potential though also assumes that all players will pan out. Call me crazy if I'm skeptical about Albert being handed the LT job and expecting him to move from college guard to pro left tackle without some major hiccups.

If you're trying to argue that Denver's concerns are THAT bad, you're insane. To put Denver on par with KC you'd have to assume that everything goes right for KC (injury and rookies) and everything goes wrong with Denver in the same areas.

Ugly Duck
06-01-2008, 11:29 AM
Only the trolls are keeping this dumb thread going. Strange they need something from the Broncos fans, huh? Wonder what it could be???

Wow... AFCW fans posting on the AFCW thread - who wudda thunk it!

Bob's your Information Minister
06-01-2008, 12:44 PM
KC got a lot of quality, long term solutions this offseason. .

I hope so.

But the fact that Herm's second and third round picks from the first two years aren't inspiring much confidence at the moment - Tank Tyler, Turk McBride, Bernard Pollard, Brodie Croyle - makes me wonder if his drafting ability is all it's cracked up to be.

If those guys don't show improvement while Brandon Flowers, Jamaal Charles, Brad Cottam and DeJuan Morgan get lumped in with them (this year's 2nd and 3rd rounders), we're going to be in a world of hurt. Hopefully it means a new head coach.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-01-2008, 12:46 PM
I'd say both DT corps are about the same talent

In what dream world?

Inkana7
06-01-2008, 12:49 PM
Because Tank Tyler is SOOO good.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-01-2008, 12:55 PM
Because Tank Tyler is SOOO good.

Are you really this dense? You could trade your entire defensive line for Glenn Dorsey and it'd be a fair deal.

Bronco Yoda
06-01-2008, 01:33 PM
This is a QB driven league. KC has no QB. end of discussion

rovolution
06-01-2008, 01:47 PM
Have you seen our DC joke the last 4 years? Yes, Faiders have problems, but I am concerned if our D is going to be much better to get over the hump and make the playoffs. Faiders just want to be .500 . Regardless of where our goals are for the season, we have to wonder what Defense will work in Denver.

Its not just the DC situation.

Atleast we know Mike Shanahan is the man with the pants, unlike in Jokeland where Al promises one thing to Lane (get to pick who is on the coaching staff) and then preaches another.

Boltergeist
06-01-2008, 02:51 PM
I'll throw in my two cents:

SD- 11-5- Clearly the most established team in the division across the board. Team is in much better shape going into 08 as opposed to 07. Rivers looked really good in the playoffs and I think the team is a tough matchup right now for the rest of the division. The biggest difference with the Chargers and the rest of the AFCW is depth across the board.
Den- 10-6- Maybe a darkhorse WC team. For that to happen, Cutler has to take it to another level, and the defense has to start slowing down the run. To me, clearly the biggest threat to the Chargers in the division.
KC- 7-9- They will miss Jared Allen...but a healthy LJ and some new blood will do them good. Their QB's can't play worse.
Oak - 5-11- Russell is going to go through growing pains. They did nothing to beef up that run defense...Kiffin doesn't look nearly as motivated as last year. I've also never been a fan of DeAngelo Hall.

KCStud
06-01-2008, 03:28 PM
I think the Broncos OL is not reliable this year. Nalen is on his last leg and is way past his prime. I'm surprised he's still playing at age 37.
And Ryan Clady has just as much to prove as Branden Albert. Clady looked good against OU in the Fiesta Bowl and he looked good in his conference, though it was the WAC we are talking about.
I also watched him play against Hawaii and he was NOT impressive. He gave up 2 sacks and quite a few QB pressures too.
Then in the offseason he tries to do the bench for scouts and gets hurt after doing fewer then most of the other OT's. So they want him to do it again weeks later and apparently refuses. Scouts questioned his strength and his overall toughness. He got drove back a lot last against bad teams.
He does a great job of dealing with speed rushers, but struggles against powerful players.

KCStud
06-01-2008, 03:46 PM
I also think a lot of people who are bashing Croyle don't understand just what he had to go through last season. KC's offensive line gave up 55 sacks. That's the most in the NFL last season.
Croyle alone played 6 games last year and played a minimal amount in 3 others. That's about 6 and 3 quarters of a total playing time. That's almost 3 sacks a game if you look at it.
He also had no consistent WR other than rookie Dwayne Bowe. Gonzo was a threat and Croyle had most of his INT's come from passing it to Gonzo.
Basically Croyle had very little protection and no LJ. Add that with probably the worst offensive coordinator in the NFL and you have the results that you saw last season.

I think this year will tell if Croyle can be an NFL QB. The team got a LT who I and many believe will be reliable. The blocking on the team will be so much better. No more Kyle Turley or Chris Terry. KC added one of the best blocking TE's in college football last season. They also added one of most underrated FB's in college football too who was known as an outstanding blocker.
KC added a few big pieces to the mix like Will Franklin who was a good #2 WR at Mizzou and Jamaal Charles who was the best RB in the Big 12 last season.
Add that with an offensive coordinator that has led an offense to a SB and made Kordell Stewart look like an actual QB and see what you've got. I think the offense will be much better this season. No I'm not saying top 10 or anything like that, but I think it's reasonable to say that KC can have an offense that will rank somewhere in the high teens.

Inkana7
06-01-2008, 04:11 PM
Are you really this dense? You could trade your entire defensive line for Glenn Dorsey and it'd be a fair deal.

Glenn Dorsey has yet to play an NFL snap, has an injury record and is a ROOKIE DT. Even the great Warren Sapp managed 22 tackles and 4 sacks his rookie year.

KCStud
06-01-2008, 04:14 PM
Glenn Dorsey has yet to play an NFL snap, has an injury record and is a ROOKIE DT. Even the great Warren Sapp managed 22 tackles and 4 sacks his rookie year.

I agree with Inkana here, but Dorsey played through his injury and managed to put up outstanding numbers. I think he's gonna be one of the best DT's in the NFL in a year or two.

kmartin575
06-01-2008, 05:20 PM
This is a QB driven league. KC has no QB. end of discussion

That is a big assumption after only 6 starts for Brodie Croyle. Let's not forget the fact that Troy Aikman lost all 11 of his starts as a rookie. Not saying that Croyle will turn out like Aikman, just pointing out that doing horribly when you have very little talent around you means little. If Croyle struggles this year then it can finally be concluded that he doesn't have what it takes but it is absolutely ridiculous to make too big of an assumption off of last years play. He was playing without LJ, one of the league's worst offensive lines, and with a horrible offensive coordinator. We have seemingly improved all of those problems as well as several others on offense.

Paladin
06-01-2008, 06:08 PM
I will say it. The Broncos can upset the sparkies this year and the Broncos win the division. Denver 12-4. Sparkies 10-6, mullets 8-8, Faids 4-10...






Same to ya.....

broncocalijohn
06-01-2008, 06:15 PM
I will say it. The Broncos can upset the sparkies this year and the Broncos win the division. Denver 12-4. Sparkies 10-6, mullets 8-8, Faids 4-10...






Same to ya.....

put this one in your sig because i think you are way off. No way we are 12 and 4 and still have KC go .500 unless SD and our losses have come to the CHiefs. I want to wish it is true, but even with Royal making a big difference on ST, we have a lot to accomplish and improve over OTHER TEAMS to be even a ten win team.

Paladin
06-01-2008, 07:36 PM
Hater......

That One Guy
06-01-2008, 08:55 PM
Are you really this dense? You could trade your entire defensive line for Glenn Dorsey and it'd be a fair deal.

Yep.. stupid me, I forgot KC was pre-slated to be the team that'd buck the trend on high draft DTs that busted. Lucky Chefs, you get to pick the only lock to succeed in the whole draft.

And KCSTUD, I'll give the better chances for success to the guy who played LT over the guy that's only really been mentioned there for a few months before the draft. There's a reason the guy was very late 1st, early 2nd until very late in the draft process. Then people saw MEASUREABLES and decided he could play LT - and the Chefs felt like handing the position to someone so it was a match made in heaven. That's the very definition of a risk/reward pick, aint it?

KCStud
06-01-2008, 09:50 PM
Yep.. stupid me, I forgot KC was pre-slated to be the team that'd buck the trend on high draft DTs that busted. Lucky Chefs, you get to pick the only lock to succeed in the whole draft.

And KCSTUD, I'll give the better chances for success to the guy who played LT over the guy that's only really been mentioned there for a few months before the draft. There's a reason the guy was very late 1st, early 2nd until very late in the draft process. Then people saw MEASUREABLES and decided he could play LT - and the Chefs felt like handing the position to someone so it was a match made in heaven. That's the very definition of a risk/reward pick, aint it?

Albert did play LT for 2 games at Virginia. This is nothing against the Broncos. KC was said to have been interested in him in late February.
I think Clady was the 4th best OL in the draft behing Long, Williams and Albert. Both have a lot to prove

Inkana7
06-01-2008, 10:11 PM
Albert did play LT for 2 games at Virginia. This is nothing against the Broncos. KC was said to have been interested in him in late February.
I think Clady was the 4th best OL in the draft behing Long, Williams and Albert. Both have a lot to prove

None more than Albert.

kmartin575
06-01-2008, 10:57 PM
Yep.. stupid me, I forgot KC was pre-slated to be the team that'd buck the trend on high draft DTs that busted. Lucky Chefs, you get to pick the only lock to succeed in the whole draft.

And KCSTUD, I'll give the better chances for success to the guy who played LT over the guy that's only really been mentioned there for a few months before the draft. There's a reason the guy was very late 1st, early 2nd until very late in the draft process. Then people saw MEASUREABLES and decided he could play LT - and the Chefs felt like handing the position to someone so it was a match made in heaven. That's the very definition of a risk/reward pick, aint it?

Yes, it is very risky. I don't think there is any question that he has the ability to play left tackle, but he still has to go out there and do it. So yes, it is risky. Of course, it is assumed by most that if he fails at tackle he can still be a very good guard. So I think there is very little chance of him being a failure of a pick.

Bronco Yoda
06-02-2008, 12:35 AM
That is a big assumption after only 6 starts for Brodie Croyle. Let's not forget the fact that Troy Aikman lost all 11 of his starts as a rookie. Not saying that Croyle will turn out like Aikman, just pointing out that doing horribly when you have very little talent around you means little. If Croyle struggles this year then it can finally be concluded that he doesn't have what it takes but it is absolutely ridiculous to make too big of an assumption off of last years play. He was playing without LJ, one of the league's worst offensive lines, and with a horrible offensive coordinator. We have seemingly improved all of those problems as well as several others on offense.

It's a bigger assumption to think Croyle is going to turn into something. What exactly has you so impressed, so hopeful, so... brainwashed. His arm strength? lol.... His escapability? I think thats already been answered. His size and durability? yah right. His improvisational skills?

Seriously.... what?

The best you can hope for with this guy is a game manager. Is this really what you want? You will be looking for a real QB next year. You know it, I know it... we all know it.

kmartin575
06-02-2008, 01:54 AM
It's a bigger assumption to think Croyle is going to turn into something. What exactly has you so impressed, so hopeful, so... brainwashed. His arm strength? lol.... His escapability? I think thats already been answered. His size and durability? yah right. His improvisational skills?

Seriously.... what?

The best you can hope for with this guy is a game manager. Is this really what you want? You will be looking for a real QB next year. You know it, I know it... we all know it.

No, that really isn't the best we can hope for from the guy. Again, how exactly can you judge him off of last years playing time? He had absolutely no help. You are knocking his escapeability? Who would escape from that porous offensive line?

Again, Troy Aikman went 0-11 as a rookie. If you based his future off of that season, do you really think anybody would have said he would be a hall of famer? But surround him with solid talent and what do you know, he all of a sudden looks good. A coincidence? I think not.

I will concede that Croyle has ALOT of questions but I will not agree that his peak is as a game manager. Despite his small size his physical talent is simply too great to believe his peak is merely as a game manager.

Killericon
06-02-2008, 02:33 AM
No, that really isn't the best we can hope for from the guy. Again, how exactly can you judge him off of last years playing time? He had absolutely no help. You are knocking his escapeability? Who would escape from that porous offensive line?

Again, Troy Aikman went 0-11 as a rookie. If you based his future off of that season, do you really think anybody would have said he would be a hall of famer? But surround him with solid talent and what do you know, he all of a sudden looks good. A coincidence? I think not.

I will concede that Croyle has ALOT of questions but I will not agree that his peak is as a game manager. Despite his small size his physical talent is simply too great to believe his peak is merely as a game manager.

Then your statement is that there is absolutely nothing off which we can judge him except our gut?

My gut, and my feeling after watching him tells me that he will be a failure. I don't really need any more proof than that since apparently any and all arguments that I could make can be tossed aside with a blanket statement like "He was hit a lot" or "His supporting cast sucked" or by simply mentioning Elway or Aikman.

Bronco Yoda
06-02-2008, 04:22 AM
No, that really isn't the best we can hope for from the guy. Again, how exactly can you judge him off of last years playing time? He had absolutely no help. You are knocking his escapeability? Who would escape from that porous offensive line?

Again, Troy Aikman went 0-11 as a rookie. If you based his future off of that season, do you really think anybody would have said he would be a hall of famer? But surround him with solid talent and what do you know, he all of a sudden looks good. A coincidence? I think not.

I will concede that Croyle has ALOT of questions but I will not agree that his peak is as a game manager. Despite his small size his physical talent is simply too great to believe his peak is merely as a game manager.

Troy Aikman had more than solid talent to work with... and the Chiefs don't qualify under this scenario anyway so whats the point anyway.

The world is full of insurance salesmen who could throw an accurate pass in High school and college.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's not even the starter past game 5. He's not even guaranteed to be the starter at the start of the season. He hasn't even won a single game yet. The very definition of not haveing a QB.

Until he proves himself or even shows a glimmer of hope.... you don't have a QB..... only some pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking.er

Even if he did play with a group of HOF'ers in their prime (which he won't) and played in a winning system (which he won't) and possessed that 'it' intangible (which he hasn't shown any of yet)..... his bird like frame will never take the rigors of the NFL. Maybe he can kick the ball?

This whole wishful thinking on Croyle reminds me of that scene in boogie nights where Dirk and his sidekick are in the record studio arguing for the master tapes. "our stuff is really that good man.... have you heard our stuff" and our completely baffled by the catch-22 phrase.

To steal the line from the record studio boss...."I know you want this to happen but it's not going to happen".

Rausch 2.0
06-02-2008, 05:28 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if he's not even the starter past game 5. He's not even guaranteed to be the starter at the start of the season.

Yeah.

You can toss out your thinking that he sucks and won't develop but saying he won't start is...dumb.

He might suck. He might not get any better. Might need to replace him. But as long as he's healthy he's starting. They're not going back to Huard even if we go 0-8 and he looks like $#it. We don't have anyone on the roster who's better.

That simple...

Rausch 2.0
06-02-2008, 05:32 AM
I will say it. The Broncos can upset the sparkies this year and the Broncos win the division. Denver 12-4. Sparkies 10-6, mullets 8-8, Faids 4-10...



Did you come down with the Raccoon brainworms or something? If you were to add KC and Denver's wins at the end of the year we'd be lucky to equal 12...

sixtimeseight
06-02-2008, 08:25 AM
KCs only going to get 2 or 3 wins this year? If you say so...

TheReverend
06-02-2008, 09:15 AM
No, that really isn't the best we can hope for from the guy. Again, how exactly can you judge him off of last years playing time? He had absolutely no help. You are knocking his escapeability? Who would escape from that porous offensive line?

Again, Troy Aikman went 0-11 as a rookie. If you based his future off of that season, do you really think anybody would have said he would be a hall of famer? But surround him with solid talent and what do you know, he all of a sudden looks good. A coincidence? I think not.
I will concede that Croyle has ALOT of questions but I will not agree that his peak is as a game manager. Despite his small size his physical talent is simply too great to believe his peak is merely as a game manager.

Hold the phone... are you really comparing the nucleus of Bowe, Albert and Dorsey to one of the, if not THE, most talented teams of all time...?

Paladin
06-02-2008, 09:49 AM
Did you come down with the Raccoon brainworms or something? If you were to add KC and Denver's wins at the end of the year we'd be lucky to equal 12...

Oh, sure. Attack the messenger. !Booya!

Your views of Team Mullets is as skewed as anyone else's' is about their team, including the sparkie fans. I was merely pointing out that these "predictions" are merely hypothetically possible deductions based on the same substance as flatulence from a mullet fan.....

Hot air is the KC mullet fans' basic repertoire. So, shove it up your sluice box, Homer, my opinions are just as valid as yours, and you really should get a life or a sense of humor.....

TheReverend
06-02-2008, 10:02 AM
Oh, sure. Attack the messenger. !Booya!

Your views of Team Mullets is as skewed as anyone else's' is about their team, including the sparkie fans. I was merely pointing out that these "predictions" are merely hypothetically possible deductions based on the same substance as flatulence from a mullet fan.....

Hot air is the KC mullet fans' basic repertoire. So, shove it up your sluice box, Homer, my opinions are just as valid as yours, and you really should get a life or a sense of humor.....

At least the only sparkie delusion pertains to the QB and has arguable aspects to it. This garbage encompasses their entire "team" (and it turns my stomach to refer to it as a real NFL football team), that only contains a handful of legitimate football players.

Kaylore
06-02-2008, 10:15 AM
Chief fans that want to throw out all of Croyle's mistakes last year because his team wasn't good, aren't being honest with themselves or the people here. The fact is that Croyle made a lot of high and behind throws - especially over the middle, and he made some bad reads that were not a result of pressure. He isn't that accurate. That won't stop Chief fans from blaming every mistake he's made on the other guys, though. He's actually Joe Montana with a stronger arm and just needs some help and it will all look great!:mullet1: ROFL!

Paladin
06-02-2008, 12:51 PM
What is stupifying is that the mullets' FO had a chance to draft a QB with decent bona fides this year, and passed on a decent one last year. Croyle is a backup QB looking for a team to support him during team practices. Right now, I'd say the best weapon the faids - or any team for that matter - have agaisnt the mullets is Croyle.

KCStud
06-02-2008, 05:26 PM
Chief fans that want to throw out all of Croyle's mistakes last year because his team wasn't good, aren't being honest with themselves or the people here. The fact is that Croyle made a lot of high and behind throws - especially over the middle, and he made some bad reads that were not a result of pressure. He isn't that accurate. That won't stop Chief fans from blaming every mistake he's made on the other guys, though. He's actually Joe Montana with a stronger arm and just needs some help and it will all look great!:mullet1: ROFL!

Considering the horrible circumstances that Croyle was put in yes I do think it was very difficult for him to have success. I thought he did well for the situation he was in.

I saw Cutler make a few bad throws himself last year and in 06 when he first started. It happens with most young QB's. A lot of young QB's make bad reads because they force throws. Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, Eli Manning, Brodie Croyle, Vince Young, Phillip Rivers. I've seen all of these young QB's make the same mistake.

And Croyle apparently being injury prone was not as big of a question mark as his OL. Huard was hurt so many times last season and he weighed 220.
Croyle was interviewed by 38sports and he said he has put on 10 pounds in the offseason and is now in the 217-220 area

All aside I expect much better results from him this season just like everybody else

Bronco Yoda
09-25-2008, 01:33 AM
bump

Vladimir
09-25-2008, 01:39 AM
I saw Cutler make a few bad throws himself last year and in 06 when he first started.


Did I miss the breaking news that Brodie Croyle played a season of NFL football with diabetes?

When Lightning Strikes
09-25-2008, 09:00 AM
Lets lay it down like this....

Broncos 15-1 (one loss is to the Chargers)
Chargers 12-4
Raiders 7-9
Chiefs 4-12


Broncos lose in AFC championship to Tennessee Titans

Super bowl
Titans 14
Cowboys 31

Br0nc0Buster
09-25-2008, 09:07 AM
The Chargers are still the best team in the division.

And unless we turn this defense around we might end up coming in second in the division again

Flex Gunmetal
09-25-2008, 09:08 AM
Nice bumps today, yoda!

Bronco Yoda
09-25-2008, 09:09 AM
I said it before... we win it all this year. First time a team wins recording only 9 sacks in the season no less.

Broncos 52
Cowboys 48

hehe

sixtimeseight
09-25-2008, 09:27 AM
KC should be able to do better than 6 wins. I think the Chiefs will win about 9 this year.

Ouch.

Kaylore
09-25-2008, 09:29 AM
Sure Kaylore. I'll bet a one month sig that Denver wins 8 games or less this year.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4039/11fl1.png
UH-OH!
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/750/andrewssh0.jpg

400HZ
09-25-2008, 09:48 AM
>:'(

I haven't lost hope, yet. One dimensional teams are prone to slippages.

The Joker
09-25-2008, 09:51 AM
It's not all that inconceivable that Denver can be 12-1 or 11-2 after 13 games this season.

We should be able to beat Kansas, and then after that we have 3 games that are going to be tough but at the same time very winnable. I'd not expect us to win all 3, but we should win 1 or 2 of them. These 3 games could be key to our season.

So I'd guess we're either 6-1 or 5-2 going into the bye.

6 games after the bye are home to Miami, Kansas and Oakland, with road games against Atlanta, The Jets and Cleveland. No reason whatsoever we shouldn't be beating all those teams, particularly if our D can show some sort of improvement and get comfortable in the scheme. Obviously upsets happen and we can't play well every week, but anything less than 5 wins from those 6 games would be a disappointment.

After that, things toughen up with a tough 3 game stretch to finish the season, and my concern is that we'll sort of stumble into the playoffs and not be in good form and go out early.

Anyway, point is that if we can get to the bye with no more than one defeat then I can see us leading the AFC for periods of the season, even though I don't think we're ready and will be found out in the playoffs.

Although momentum can be a wonderful thing, get to Week 15 with a 12-1 record under our belts and this team could be buzzing with confidence and you never know...

Though I just hope we can beat the Chiefs, for now.

Kaylore
09-25-2008, 10:17 AM
>:'(

I haven't lost hope, yet. One dimensional teams are prone to slippages.

You should have looked at our schedule before you made the bet. ;) How's our "crappy offense" look now?

Greybeard
09-25-2008, 10:33 AM
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4039/11fl1.png
UH-OH!
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/750/andrewssh0.jpg

Maybe that ought to be his sig. Maybe along with "Phyllis sucks." !Booya!

-----

Atlas
09-25-2008, 10:47 AM
KC should be able to do better than 6 wins. I think the Chiefs will win about 9 this year.

ooops

Merlin
09-25-2008, 10:50 AM
ooops
That's not fair...SoCal seems to have been traumatized by a Chief fan at some point in his life and he ALWAYS seems to over rate them. There are two things I always expect from him, to be unhappy about the low number of draft choices we have accumulated, and concerned about the power that are the chefs

Atlas
09-25-2008, 10:51 AM
Considering the horrible circumstances that Croyle was put in yes I do think it was very difficult for him to have success. I thought he did well for the situation he was in.

I saw Cutler make a few bad throws himself last year and in 06 when he first started. It happens with most young QB's. A lot of young QB's make bad reads because they force throws. Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, Eli Manning, Brodie Croyle, Vince Young, Phillip Rivers. I've seen all of these young QB's make the same mistake.

And Croyle apparently being injury prone was not as big of a question mark as his OL. Huard was hurt so many times last season and he weighed 220.
Croyle was interviewed by 38sports and he said he has put on 10 pounds in the offseason and is now in the 217-220 area

All aside I expect much better results from him this season just like everybody else


Congratualtions. You made about 100 posts in this thread and for the first time ever. You were 100% wrong on all of them!!

400HZ
09-25-2008, 11:00 AM
You should have looked at our schedule before you made the bet. ;) How's our "crappy offense" look now?

I think it's fundamentally a mistake to look at a teams schedule and predict their W/L based on that. Teams come out of nowhere every year in the NFL and teams fall off. The constant on a team is its talent level. Denver got some instant impact rookies, which are a fairly rare commodity, and the talent upgrade has had a ripple effect on the whole offense.

We'll have to wait and see if your offense can continue to carry the team. Plus, Hochuli and Gramatica won't be there every week. :flower:

ZONA
09-25-2008, 11:25 AM
I think it's fundamentally a mistake to look at a teams schedule and predict their W/L based on that. Teams come out of nowhere every year in the NFL and teams fall off. The constant on a team is its talent level. Denver got some instant impact rookies, which are a fairly rare commodity, and the talent upgrade has had a ripple effect on the whole offense.

We'll have to wait and see if your offense can continue to carry the team. Plus, Hochuli and Gramatica won't be there every week. :flower:

Neither will the Jets....................ROFL!

Greybeard
09-25-2008, 01:17 PM
I think it's fundamentally a mistake to look at a teams schedule and predict their W/L based on that. Teams come out of nowhere every year in the NFL and teams fall off. The constant on a team is its talent level. Denver got some instant impact rookies, which are a fairly rare commodity, and the talent upgrade has had a ripple effect on the whole offense.

We'll have to wait and see if your offense can continue to carry the team. Plus, Hochuli and Gramatica won't be there every week. :flower:

Ha! Typical dolts fan. Which one of your girls caused Cutler to drop the ball,
as Graham was waiting all by himself in the end zone? What did Hochuli have
to do with the failure of your girls to stop the Broncos from getting into the
end zone after that . . . twice?

And Gramatica? I guess you missed the part where the Broncos collapsed the
left side of the Saints' line during the FG kick, which likely helped Gramatica
to push the ball.

I'll be interested in hearing what excuses you dolts will have after your loss
in December. Merry Xmas!! :welcome:

-----

Kaylore
09-25-2008, 01:34 PM
I think it's fundamentally a mistake to look at a teams schedule and predict their W/L based on that. Teams come out of nowhere every year in the NFL and teams fall off. The constant on a team is its talent level. Denver got some instant impact rookies, which are a fairly rare commodity, and the talent upgrade has had a ripple effect on the whole offense.
It must be hard knowing you're not the only team that learned how to draft in the AFC West.

sixtimeseight
09-25-2008, 01:35 PM
>:'(

I haven't lost hope, yet. One dimensional teams are prone to slippages.

If the Broncos are one dimensional, what does that make the Chargers, who are currently 2 games + a tiebreaker back in the standings?

rovolution
09-25-2008, 01:48 PM
>:'(

I haven't lost hope, yet. One dimensional teams are prone to slippages.

says a fan whose defense has been atrocious as well throughout the first three weeks.

Favre threw 3 scores, Cutler threw 4 scores, Delhome threw a game winner and Jonathan Stewart ripped up your run d....


Chugger D looks no better than the Broncos does at the moment.

without Steroids Boy your pass rushers look mortal. think AJ is kicking himself for wasting millions on Jyles and not saving some cash for Steroidmen?

cutthemdown
09-25-2008, 01:51 PM
If the Broncos are one dimensional, what does that make the Chargers, who are currently 2 games + a tiebreaker back in the standings?

Chargers have a way better all around roster. Most of SD front 7 would start on Broncos. The safety's for sure would start on Denver. Also either CB on SD is better then BLY. The have better RB, better TE.

Make no mistake about it Chargers a talented team and anyone who thinks this is even close to be over with is naive.

So what are chargers? Probably the most talented team in the AFC.

TomServo
09-25-2008, 01:56 PM
Gramatica won't be there every week.

we would have got the ball back with @ 1:50 left on the clock. like cutler wouldnt have marched the ball right down the field again. a bigger problem would have been scoring too soon. letting the saints drive 40 yards in 20 seconds on our D for the game winner.

TomServo
09-25-2008, 01:59 PM
So what are chargers? Probably the most talented team in the AFC.

and they have been for years. cashing it in is a totally different thing.

rovolution
09-25-2008, 02:00 PM
and they have been for years. cashing it in is a totally different thing.

2005 Chuggers..


the best 10-6 team to never make the playoffs EVER!!!!!!


:rofl:

Greybeard
09-25-2008, 02:16 PM
Considering the horrible circumstances that Croyle was put in yes I do think it was very difficult for him to have success. I thought he did well for the situation he was in.

I saw Cutler make a few bad throws himself last year and in 06 when he first started. It happens with most young QB's. A lot of young QB's make bad reads because they force throws. Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, Eli Manning, Brodie Croyle, Vince Young, Phillip Rivers. I've seen all of these young QB's make the same mistake.

And Croyle apparently being injury prone was not as big of a question mark as his OL. Huard was hurt so many times last season and he weighed 220.
Croyle was interviewed by 38sports and he said he has put on 10 pounds in the offseason and is now in the 217-220 area

All aside I expect much better results from him this season just like everybody else

Croyle throws a nice ball. I expect him to develop into a pretty good QB. Not
a superstar, but pretty good.

I was impressed that Cutler said he and Croyle talk every week. They must be
pretty good friends.

Anyway, with Gonzalez at 32 years old, what weapons does Croyle have to
look forward to in the near future, besides Dwayne Bowe, whom ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=week4wrranks) has
rated as the 12th best receiver? This is an honest question, not smack.

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Kaylore
09-25-2008, 02:21 PM
Croyle throws a nice ball. I expect him to develop into a pretty good QB. Not
a superstar, but pretty good.


:nono: Croyle has been injured three times in seven starts for multiple games. I don't care if he's the next Joe Montana; If you can't stay healthy you aren't starting material.

DHallblows
09-25-2008, 02:44 PM
San Diego 13-3
Denver 8-8
Oakland 6-10
Kansas City 6-10

:( Sooooooooo. Basically winning the rest of your games this year are we? ROFL!

boltaneer's predictions are even more of a joke...

sixtimeseight
09-25-2008, 03:15 PM
Chargers have a way better all around roster. Most of SD front 7 would start on Broncos. The safety's for sure would start on Denver. Also either CB on SD is better then BLY. The have better RB, better TE.

Make no mistake about it Chargers a talented team and anyone who thinks this is even close to be over with is naive.

So what are chargers? Probably the most talented team in the AFC.

And they're 1-2. Talent isn't everything.

boltaneer
09-25-2008, 03:36 PM
I have no problem admitting my W-L prediction was too low. And I underestimated Cutler's ability to overcome his medical problems, mentally.

But if you read my posts, most of my criticism went towards the defense which I think holds true.

Greybeard
09-25-2008, 04:04 PM
I have no problem admitting my W-L prediction was too low. And I underestimated Cutler's ability to overcome his medical problems, mentally.

But if you read my posts, most of my criticism went towards the defense which I think holds true.

Yes, seeing as how your defense gave up 26, 39, and 29 points on successive
weekends, the first two, of course, in losing efforts, I guess you can empathize
in that . . .

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boltaneer
09-25-2008, 04:16 PM
Yes, seeing as how your defense gave up 26, 39, and 29 points on successive
weekends, the first two, of course, in losing efforts, I guess you can empathize
in that . . .

-----

Yeah, fat Teddy is off to another conservative start for some inexplicable reason.

The good news is that the defense played with more aggression this week than the past two weeks combined, easily.

I thought the defense played great this week. They constantly were in horrible field position because of the pick six by the Jets in the first quarter and the poor special teams play with one drive started first and goal.

Why it takes embarrassing defensive performances for Teddy to shy away form his conservative style, I'll never understand.

Greybeard
09-25-2008, 04:26 PM
Yeah, fat Teddy is off to another conservative start for some inexplicable reason.

The good news is that the defense played with more aggression this week than the past two weeks combined, easily.

I thought the defense played great this week. They constantly were in horrible field position because of the pick six by the Jets in the first quarter and the poor special teams play with one drive started first and goal.

Why it takes embarrassing defensive performances for Teddy to shy away form his conservative style, I'll never understand.

Conservative? He's got Gates, Jackson, Chambers, LT, and a defense that has
been getting schooled, and he wants to play conservative?

Makes me glad we have Bates . . .

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boltaneer
09-25-2008, 04:55 PM
Conservative? He's got Gates, Jackson, Chambers, LT, and a defense that has
been getting schooled, and he wants to play conservative?

Makes me glad we have Bates . . .

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Conservative is Teddy's style. I think he was reluctant to play aggressive without Merriman because he was afraid of getting burnt and giving up huge plays. So instead the defense was just getting slowly picked apart to death.

It was nice to see him finally turn the defense loose last week and play to their strengths.

DB-Freak
09-25-2008, 05:16 PM
Conservative? He's got Gates, Jackson, Chambers, LT, and a defense that has
been getting schooled, and he wants to play conservative?

Makes me glad we have Bates . . .

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Ted is the DC...

Greybeard
09-26-2008, 12:13 AM
Ted is the DC...

Guess I need more sleep . . .

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Kaylore
09-26-2008, 08:53 AM
Conservative is Teddy's style. I think he was reluctant to play aggressive without Merriman because he was afraid of getting burnt and giving up huge plays. So instead the defense was just getting slowly picked apart to death.

But I thought Jyles Tucker was going to step in and not miss a beat! :poke: :stirstir:

TheReverend
09-26-2008, 08:58 AM
But I thought Jyles Tucker was going to step in and not miss a beat! :poke: :stirstir:

As laughable as that reaction was, many here would be saying the same things about Winborn/Woodyard if DJ went down.

Kaylore
09-26-2008, 09:00 AM
As laughable as that reaction was, many here would be saying the same things about Winborn/Woodyard if DJ went down.

Are you serious? I must have missed that.

boltaneer
09-26-2008, 09:16 AM
But I thought Jyles Tucker was going to step in and not miss a beat! :poke: :stirstir:

Who said that?

Though he did do pretty well on Monday night with the defense playing more aggressive... :flower:

Odysseus
09-26-2008, 09:34 AM
If the Broncos are one dimensional, what does that make the Chargers, who are currently 2 games + a tiebreaker back in the standings?

You mean that muffled voice at the top of the cellar doesn't bother you?

gyldenlove
09-26-2008, 09:54 AM
Croyle throws a nice ball. I expect him to develop into a pretty good QB. Not
a superstar, but pretty good.

I was impressed that Cutler said he and Croyle talk every week. They must be
pretty good friends.

Anyway, with Gonzalez at 32 years old, what weapons does Croyle have to
look forward to in the near future, besides Dwayne Bowe, whom ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=week4wrranks) has
rated as the 12th best receiver? This is an honest question, not smack.

-----

There are several things with Croyle that would worry me if I am a Chiefs fan, not least among which is his glass jaw.

What I have seen from Croyle so far (and I haven't seen him much), is that he has average accuracy but lacks top power. I don't like his progression, he is in his 3rd year in the league and still looks slow to make his reads and find the open guy.

Croyle could become Chad Pennington if he develops a faster release and better progression in making his throws. The problem is that his top level of talent is somewhere in the Chad Pennington, Jake Delhomme region on the universal chart of quarterbacks. They are adequate with a really good team, but not enough to win 10 games with a mediocre team.

Another worry is that he only has 5 starts through 2+ seasons, when he enters his 4th year he will not yet have started 16 games in total. I think that is a problem because if he needs about 25 games before he develops he will be in the end of his 4th year or beginning of his 5th more likely before we know if he actually panned out. That is a long time to wait, because effectively the Chiefs can't get another young top QB in that time without creating a QB controversy.

Kaylore
09-26-2008, 10:24 AM
Who said that?

Though he did do pretty well on Monday night with the defense playing more aggressive... :flower:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2045057&postcount=39
Jyles Tucker will be a household name by the end of the season. The dude can play. Should be very little dropoff if Merriman is out.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2044988&postcount=26
(BTW, I'm really liking Jyles Tucker, Merriman's backup. 400, I'm curious if you and the other Bolt fans are high on him as well.)

Greybeard
09-26-2008, 10:28 AM
There are several things with Croyle that would worry me if I am a Chiefs fan, not least among which is his glass jaw.

What I have seen from Croyle so far (and I haven't seen him much), is that he has average accuracy but lacks top power. I don't like his progression, he is in his 3rd year in the league and still looks slow to make his reads and find the open guy.

Croyle could become Chad Pennington if he develops a faster release and better progression in making his throws. The problem is that his top level of talent is somewhere in the Chad Pennington, Jake Delhomme region on the universal chart of quarterbacks. They are adequate with a really good team, but not enough to win 10 games with a mediocre team.

Another worry is that he only has 5 starts through 2+ seasons, when he enters his 4th year he will not yet have started 16 games in total. I think that is a problem because if he needs about 25 games before he develops he will be in the end of his 4th year or beginning of his 5th more likely before we know if he actually panned out. That is a long time to wait, because effectively the Chiefs can't get another young top QB in that time without creating a QB controversy.

Reasonable analysis. Thank you.

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boltaneer
09-26-2008, 10:45 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2045057&postcount=39

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2044988&postcount=26

I said that I like Tucker but that doesn't equate to him playing at the same level as Merriman.

I've never said there won't be a drop off. And I've said that he has a long way to go in another thread.

JJJ is much more confident in Tucker than I am at this point. But we'll see how he develops throughout the season.

Greybeard
09-26-2008, 11:05 AM
I said that I like Tucker but that doesn't equate to him playing at the same level as Merriman.

I've never said there won't be a drop off. And I've said that he has a long way to go in another thread.

JJJ is much more confident in Tucker than I am at this point. But we'll see how he develops throughout the season.

Tucker has a very good supporting cast around him. While the team surely is
not the same without Merriman, it would seem all Tucker has to to is fill the
gaps he's supposed to fill and make the tackle. He'll probably never rush the
passer as Merriman could, but that defense will still settle down to be a fine
one even without Merriman.

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JJJ
09-26-2008, 11:10 AM
I said that I like Tucker but that doesn't equate to him playing at the same level as Merriman.

I've never said there won't be a drop off. And I've said that he has a long way to go in another thread.

JJJ is much more confident in Tucker than I am at this point. But we'll see how he develops throughout the season.

Jyles Tucker had two sacks on Monday folks. Or in other words half as many as your entire team in 3 games.

sixtimeseight
09-26-2008, 11:45 AM
Jyles Tucker had two sacks on Monday folks. Or in other words half as many as your entire team in 3 games.

http://www.afunnystuff.com/forumpics/you_win_the_prize.jpg

Greybeard
09-26-2008, 11:56 AM
Jyles Tucker had two sacks on Monday folks. Or in other words half as many as your entire team in 3 games.

He didn't make much difference a couple weeks ago . . .

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