Recount

[Rohirrim]

Tonight on HBO. Incredible cast. Could be very illuminating. Might even be funny.

Kevin Spacey and Tom Wilkinson lead an ensemble cast in a depiction of the controversy that enveloped the 2000 U.S. presidential election and the fight in Florida between representatives of Al Gore and George W. Bush. Denis Leary, Bob Balaban, Laura Dern, Ed Begley Jr., John Hurt. Directed by Jay Roach. Screenplay by Danny Strong. Sydney Pollack is an executive producer.

[Spider]

I saw a preview of that ....... Looks good

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It's amazing when you pause for a minute and remember how this POS in the WH stole two elections. Everything these handjobs have done they have done without the consent of the governed.

[Dudeskey]

It's amazing when you pause for a minute and remember how this POS in the WH stole two elections. Everything these handjobs have done they have done without the consent of the governed.

Oh thats sooo ancient history, get over it already.
http://www.thenewpolitics.com/images/bush_dictatorship.jpg

[Florida_Bronco]

I'm a big Kevin Spacey fan, so I will catch this the next time it is on TV.

[W*GS]

LABF will be watching this thing all lubed up and ready to stroke a couple off...

[W*GS]

It's amazing when you pause for a minute and remember how this POS in the WH stole two elections. Everything these handjobs have done they have done without the consent of the governed.

57% of voters didn't want Bill Clinton for President in 1992. How does that fact figure into your calculus?

[elsid13]

Not bad, it was well written, acted and directed. FL Sec of State came across as total moron, and Warren didn't get a lot of love either.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2715/georgesays8wm8.jpg

[W*GS]

Everything I write that doesn't follow LABF's Bush-hate-all-the-time gets called a "deflection" - it's merely LABF's way of trying to avoid uncomfortable realities.

Oh, and I've never bothered to take the time or effort to poorly manipulate a bitmap with LABF's handle in it. That's his particular obsession with me.

[Rohirrim]

I liked the part where the GOP flew in congressional aids on an Enron jet to disrupt the counting.

Kind of a microcosm of the two parties: The Dems just wanted all the votes counted while the GOP wanted to kill the count and at the same time pretend they held the higher moral ground. Same as it ever was.

[elsid13]

From the HBO site:
http://www.hbo.com/films/recount/epilogue/index.html

Finishing the Count
Following George W. Bush's inauguration in 2001, a group of the U.S.'s largest media outlets -- including the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, the Associated Press and CNN among others -- formed a consortium to count Florida's votes from the disputed 2000 presidential election. The National Opinion Research Center (http://www2.norc.org/fl/promiss.asp) examined 175,010 votes that had been rejected by machine counters, including those in which no vote was recorded (undervotes) and those in which more than one candidate was recorded (overvotes).

The results, according to the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12623-2001Nov11.html), showed that "if the two limited recounts had not been short-circuited -- the first by Florida county and state election officials and the second by the U.S. Supreme Court -- Bush would have held his lead over Gore, with margins ranging from 225 to 493 votes, depending on the standard. But the study also found that whether dimples are counted or amore restrictive standard is used, a statewide tally favored Gore by 60 to 171 votes."

Additionally, the news media reported, the investigation found statistical support for the claim that misleading ballot design, such as instructions to "Vote Every Page" even though presidential candidates were spread across two pages, cost Al Gore the White House (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/03/11/palmbeach.recount/). Of the more than 113,000 ballots that were marked for more than one candidate, 75,000 indicated Gore and a minor candidate; 29,000 were for Bush and a minor candidate.

The consortium released the results of its analysis in November of 2001, but much of its impact was lost in the media coverage following the terrorist attacks of September 11.

Both political parties claimed vindication.

Purging the Rolls
In the months after the 2000 election, media reports reported thousands of errors in the Florida Central Voter File (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A99749-2001May30), the list created by the Florida state government to purge ineligible voters from the rolls. In 2004, as Governor Jeb Bush and the state government planned to institute a new and "improved" purge list, several media sources, including CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/01/florida.elections/), sued to view it. Among the findings (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0DEEDC103BF933A25754C0A9629C8B 63): of the 48,000 people listed as felons, 22,000 identified themselves as African American and 61 as Hispanic. African Americans have historically skewed toward Democratic candidates in Florida, while Hispanic voters in the state tend toward Republicans.

The state eventually abandoned efforts to use the list (http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/11/State/Florida_scraps_felon_.shtml), and it was supplanted by aspects of the Federal Help America Vote Act in 2006.

Carter-Baker Commission
Former Secretary of State James Baker, who helped secure the White House for George W. Bush, joined with former President Jimmy Carter in 2005 to form a commission on election reform at American University (PDF) (http://www.american.edu/ia/cfer/report/CFER_summary.pdf).

The 21 member commission, which included former members of Congress, scholars, and non-partisan leaders, spent 6 months studying electoral problems in the U.S., and ultimately presented 87 reforms to the president and to Congress. The proposals included recommendations for voter identification cards and auditable trails for voting machines. The effort received extensive news coverage.

More recently, the commission has reported (http://www.american.edu/ia/cdem/usp/np/cbc_progress_2007_06_12.pdf) that there has been "significant" or "some" progress towards implementing or debating many of the reforms that the Carter-Baker Commission proposed, but that "the future trajectory of reform remains uncertain" as the 2008 election approaches

[Denver Crush]

I really enjoyed the portrayal of Katherine Harris. Stupid biyatch!

[W*GS]

Kind of a microcosm of the two parties: The Dems just wanted all the votes counted [...]

Hardly.

[TDmvp]

thx for the revisionist history propaganda HBO ... who would have thought the station that brings you such timeless trash as generation kill and real time with Bill Peta could do such great work...

[Spider]

thx for the revisionist history propaganda HBO ... who would have thought the station that brings you such timeless trash as generation kill and real time with Bill Peta could do such great work...

what part was wrong ?

[TDmvp]

it was just lame ... they made EVER person on the right look like a moron or a monster while the goodie goodie left was trien to save the world ... even in the crowd shots they showed everyone hold a bush banner they gave lines to make sure you knew that they was a moron cause they was for bush ... it was a political HIT JOB RELEASED ON MEMIORIAL DAY EVE for a reason ... nothing more ... lets also figure in that the Left is worried about losing FLor. in the general and since they just pi$$ed off the voters there by not counting their votes it was a good idea to remind them how the right stole it 8 years ago .... bush won get over it hbo


If you think either side wont steal you blind if you let then your as blind as hbo ... cause they are both equally evil ...

just look through the casting of this movie ... it is a whos who of the Left wing moveon.orgers this movie was nothing more than propaganda

Ed Begley Jr.
Laura Dern
Denis Leary
Kevin Spacey

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

thx for the revisionist history propaganda HBO ...

Hilarious!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61D0G5B4VBL._SS500_.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Recount proved Gore won under all scenarios <hr style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> "In the review of all the state's disputed ballots, Gore edged ahead under all six scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes statewide"

- Associated Press

It's time to refresh everyone's memory of the NORC recount of the Florida 2000 vote. This recount, the only one ever completed, proved a Gore victory under all scenarios for a state-wide recount.

Note that under this recount Gore won even if you include Republican fraud such as the late absentee votes (which were only accepted in Republican counties), the thousands of votes lost to illegal disenfranchisement when people were falsely accused of being felons, and the curious "Jews for Buchanan" phenomenon with the butterfly ballot. If you count the votes, Gore won. If you don't count the votes, Bush won. It's that simple.

What does this mean? It means Gore won both the electoral college and the popular vote. It means the man currently in the oval office is a not a legitimate president. It means democracy was defeated in the year 2000. It means Americans are now living under a coup. Never lose sight of these facts.

Here follows the results in full of the NORC recount. Six different standards for hanging chads and such were considered. All six scenarios resulted in a Gore victory.

-PREVAILING STANDARD: County election officials told Florida journalists how they would define votes if required to do a recount and in this scenario the majority standard was imposed statewide. In punch-card counties, ballots with at least one corner of a chad detached counted as votes. In optical scan counties, where voters are required to fill in blanks on a paper ballot -- like on a standardized test -- ballots with any affirmative marks counted. That means a vote counted even if the oval was not completely filled in or a candidate's name was circled or underlined; so did ballots on which a voter correctly filled in the oval and also wrote the same candidate's name in the space for write-ins.

Result: Gore ahead by 60 votes.

-TWO-CORNER STANDARD: At least two corners of a chad must be detached to count as a vote, a position that had been argued, at times, by Bush supporters. Same as prevailing standard for optical scan ballots.

Result: Gore ahead by 105 votes.

-MOST INCLUSIVE: Ballots with dimpled chads count as votes, an argument often made by Gore supporters. Same as prevailing standard for optical scan ballots.

Result: Gore ahead by 107 votes.

-LEAST INCLUSIVE: Only cleanly punched chads count as valid votes. For optical scan, only fully filled ovals and those ballots on which a voter filled in the oval and wrote in the candidate's name, too.

Result: Gore ahead by 115 votes.

-COUNTY-by-COUNTY: Drawn from the county election officials. It accepts results from Broward and Volusia counties because those counties completed hand counts that were included in state-certified election totals. For those counties that said they would not count overvotes, relies on prevailing standard.

Result: Gore ahead by 171 votes.

-PALM BEACH STANDARD: Based on a standard Palm Beach election officials briefly used, this counts dimpled chads as valid votes if a pattern of dimpled chads exists elsewhere on the same ballot. Same as prevailing standard for optical scan ballots.

Result: Gore ahead by 42 votes.

Media reaction

A close examination of the ballots suggests that more Floridians attempted to choose Gore over Bush. -- Chicago Tribune

Gore would have won most recount scenarios that included "overvotes," ballots that showed votes for more than one candidate. Democrats long have contended that a plurality of Florida voters intended to cast their ballots for Gore but that thousands spoiled their votes because of confusing instructions, badly designed ballots or other obstacles. The study adds evidence to bolster that case. -- LA Times

One of the most compelling questions since the election has been: Who would have won if all the uncounted ballots were hand-counted using the same standards? If that had happened using the counting methods most widely used in the state, the
study shows, Bush would have gotten an extra 3,607 votes, Gore an extra 4,204 -- giving Gore the state by a scant 60-vote margin. -- Orlando Sentinel

But if Gore had found a way to trigger a statewide recount of all disputed ballots,
or if the courts had required it, the result likely would have been different. An examination of uncounted ballots throughout Florida found enough where voter intent was clear to give Gore the narrowest of margins. -- Washington Post

Translation from Washington Post whorespeak to English: The study showed the majority of Floridians voted for Gore.

The consortium looked at what might have happened if a statewide recount had included these overvotes as well and found that Gore would have had a margin of fewer than 200 votes -- CNN

Translation from CNN whorespeak to English: The study showed the majority of Floridians voted for Gore.

The findings indicate that Mr. Gore might have eked out a victory if he had pursued in court a course like the one he publicly advocated when he called on the state to "count all the votes." -- NY Times

Translation from NY Times whorespeak to English: The study showed the majority of Floridians voted for Gore.

A vote-by-vote review of untallied ballots in the 2000 Florida presidential election commissioned by the nation's main media outlets shows Al Gore edged ahead of George W. Bush "under all the scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes statewide," the Drudge Report has learned. -- Matt Drudge

Don't ever let anyone tell you to "get over" this, folks. You don't get over the subversion of democracy in the most powerful nation on the planet. You don't get over an illegal coup. Don't let the Republicans get away with the most monumental theft in history. You owe a debt to your ancestors as well as your children to ensure that this crime is never forgotten.

[Spider]

it was just lame ... they made EVER person on the right look like a moron or a monster while the goodie goodie left was trien to save the world ...
So you dont like it cause it was true .......


even in the crowd shots they showed everyone hold a bush banner they gave lines to make sure you knew that they was a moron cause they was for bush well those that did vote for Bush ere morons.... Thats been established



... it was a political HIT JOB RELEASED ON MEMIORIAL DAY EVE for a reason ... nothing more ... So HBO is anti American pro terrorist ?


lets also figure in that the Left is worried about losing FLor. in the general and since they just pi$$ed off the voters there by not counting their votes it was a good idea to remind them how the right stole it 8 years ago .... bush won get over it hbo Thats just it , the dems didnt lose Fla , it was stolen .....


If you think either side wont steal you blind if you let then your as blind as hbo ... cause they are both equally evil ... I have lived through Taile end of Nixon ,Ford Carter , Reagan ,Poppy Bush , Clinton ..... I much rather have Dems in office

just look through the casting of this movie ... it is a whos who of the Left wing moveon.orgers this movie was nothing more than propaganda

Ed Begley Jr.
Laura Dern
Denis Leary
Kevin SpaceyAll great actors

[Spider]

I am watching Recount right now .......flood of memories

[Dudeskey]

thx for the revisionist history propaganda HBO ... who would have thought the station that brings you such timeless trash as generation kill and real time with Bill Peta could do such great work...
LOL
http://images.villagevoice.com/issues/0609/tmw-big.jpg

[Spider]

Lol

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

:laugh:

That's great!

[TDmvp]

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=YmI1NTk2ODFmYzcwN2Y3NzA1ZmVhMWViYThlMTE1NzA=

a little reading maybe you will find some substance in i found while reading some other board


Mark Goldblatt’s article is excellent. It’s the first one I have seen in which a journalist checked his facts before he chucked his integrity and objectivity.

There is one thing Goldblatt failed to note: Under Florida law, any recount of the votes in a statewide election must be a statewide recount – not a selective one as was demanded by the Gore camp. Gore tried to “gore” the constitutions of the State of Florida and of the United States itself by insisting that the recount by limited to only three counties: Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach, each of which is heavily Democratic.

The U.S. Supreme Court did NOT “give” the election to Bush for personal, political or any other reasons. It did not “give” the election to either candidate. The Court simply ruled that any recount must be conducted according to the applicable Florida statutes.

The “hanging” and “pregnant” chad issue was covered extensively by the media, as was the problem with the infamous “butterfly ballot” used in parts of Palm Beach County. That ballot may have caused some confusion among voters, but it was designed by a senior Democrat – not by Republicans.

Those who say Bush stole the 2000 election in Florida, or that it was stolen on his behalf by the Supreme Court, are ignorant at best and hypocritical at worst. Even today we hear from prominent Democrats who say the election was stolen from Gore. They surely know better, but that’s what Democrats do when they lose an election they felt they were “entitled” to win. Those same Democrats never say a word about the chicanery that has occurred in Cook County, Illinois, over the last several decades. In Cook County, of which Chicago is a part, dead people and dogs have had their “votes” counted.

I know some far left Democrats want to provide “cradle to grave” security for everyone, but let’s not get carried away: Voting rights should not extend the beyond the grave.

i mean come on there is 100's of studies , reviews , and articles on this from the leftish NewYork times to the A.P. and they all say Bush won ... but hey HBO would know something they don't cause they are hollywood ...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEEDB1338F931A25752C1A9679C8B 63

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

i mean come on there is 100's of studies , reviews , and articles on this from the leftish NewYork times to the A.P. and they all say Bush won ...

ROFL!

Would that be the same "leftish" NY Times that had to publish a formal apology for its role as unthinking/uncritical cheerleader for Bush's invasion of Iraq and whose star reporter did ~80 days in the slammer to protect Scooter and the rest of the team?

You crack me up. Ha!

BTW, have you ever heard of the lawsuit the NAACP filed (and won) against Kathy Harris, Jeb Bush, ChoicePoint, et al?

Take the tens of thousands of voters who were illegally purged from the rolls in Florida out of the equation and Gore wins easily (and that's just one of many republican frauds that occurred in 2000.)

[TDmvp]

If you think the New York Times is a Right Wing news paper your a bigger moron then i thought you was ... and like a give two $hit about anything the naacp does ... cause if there is a trustworthy group you know its the naacp , yea right ... i noticed in recount the Dems didn't even want Jessie Jackson around and who can blame them .

Don't let me down hymie town ....

along with the NY Times
i guess the A.P. , Purdue , PBS , USA Today, CNN , MSNBC are all in the tank for Bush cause they all wrote reports saying bush won ... some even said if there was a statewide recount bush gains votes and widens the margin ... try reading a little before you bitch and moan like a typical @$$hole

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/media_watch/jan-june01/recount_4-3.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-04-03-floridamain.htm


you know all the media in the country so loves Bush which is why i guess they would lie and say he won LOL ........ you kill me L.A you should change you sig to Rev. Wright cause your just like him ...

[TheDave]

Oddly, what i got out of this was that the GOP group was vastly smarter and more organized. Every time there was an obstacle they were the first ones to bottom line the problem and find the simple solution. While the Dem team was mirred in idealistic arguments about how this battle should be fought. The republican side identified this as a "street fight for the white house" and played it as such.

[TexanBob]

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=296780367336800

HBO Calls It For Gore
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Tuesday, May 27, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Media: We know the 2000 race is over and all the hanging chads fell long ago. Yet HBO tries to "Recount" the votes one more time and — guess what — George W. Bush is still president.

On Sunday, we were treated to HBO's retelling, the umpteenth retelling, of the Democratic Party talking points on how Bush "stole" the 2000 election in league with Florida's secretary of state and the U.S. Supreme Court. Yes, this is an election year.

Interestingly, the creators of "Recount" and its stars aren't bothering to hide the film's bias or agenda. Actor Kevin Spacey, who plays Ron Klain, former chief of staff for Al Gore, told MSNBC's Keith Olberman that "the movie is done from the Democratic point of view," which makes it the world's longest campaign commercial.

"Recount" writer Danny Strong says he "didn't understand why there wasn't a statewide hand recount of the ballots in an election this close, in which there were uncounted ballots." The Supreme Court ruling was a "shame," he says, and Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris a "fraud."

Harris, portrayed as a heavily made-up Cruella De Vil, is in fact to be applauded for courageously ignoring the political passions of the moment and adhering to the rule of law — in this case, Florida state election law.

In all its specific and unambiguous language, the law clearly stated in section 102.111: "If the county returns are not received by the Department of State by 5 p.m. of the seventh day following election, all missing counties shall be ignored, and the results shown by the returns on file shall be certified."

All the U.S. Supreme Court decided was to reaffirm that, according to the U.S. Constitution, the manner in which elections are conducted is up to each individual state and that the will of the people as expressed through the laws enacted by the popularly elected Florida legislature stood and could not be overturned by a Florida Supreme Court legislating from the bench.

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia says: "The principal issue in this case, whether the scheme that the Florida Supreme Court had put together violated the federal Constitution, that wasn't even close. The vote was 7 to 2." It was Al Gore, he adds, "who made it a judicial question. It was he who brought it into the federal courts."

All the votes were counted, and recounted, and counted again. And not a single recount, either by local boards or major news organizations, found a way for Gore to win. A comprehensive review of 64,248 ballots in all 67 Florida counties by the Miami Herald and its parent company, Knight Ridder, in partnership with USA Today, found that Bush's slender margin of 537 votes would have tripled to 1,665 votes even under the generous counting standards advocated by Gore.

Another review conducted by the National Opinion Research Center at the request of CNN, the New York Times and other news organizations found that Bush still would have won Florida even if the U.S. Supreme Court had not ended the nonsense.

In 2000, the election boards of Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade counties were all controlled by Democrats. The infamous butterfly ballot was designed by a Democrat. The attorney general of Florida at that time was Democrat Robert Butterworth.

Voters were instructed at the polling place: "After voting, check your ballot card to make sure your voting selections are clearly and cleanly punched and there are no chads left hanging on the back of the card."

The fact is, Gore himself requested recounts in only four counties where he thought he might gain votes, not lose them. Gore lost not because Florida was "stolen," but because he couldn't carry his home state of Tennessee, the people who knew him best.

Maybe the hanging chads were caused by global warming.

[TexanBob]

Actually, the above in bold is not true. The media did find a way for Gore to win and that was if they counted all the spoiled ballots. You know what a spoiled ballot is? That's one that, for whatever reason, was thrown out before it could be counted such as ones that tried to vote more than once for the same office or ones that or where the voter changed their mind and asked for a new ballot, etc.

In every other type of vote count, Bush got more votes in Florida than Gore.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

In every other type of vote count, Bush got more votes in Florida than Gore.

Once again, you have it bass-ackwards...


Recount proved Gore won under all scenarios <hr style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message --> "In the review of all the state's disputed ballots, Gore edged ahead under all six scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes statewide"

- Associated Press

It's time to refresh everyone's memory of the NORC recount of the Florida 2000 vote. This recount, the only one ever completed, proved a Gore victory under all scenarios for a state-wide recount.

Note that under this recount Gore won even if you include Republican fraud such as the late absentee votes (which were only accepted in Republican counties), the thousands of votes lost to illegal disenfranchisement when people were falsely accused of being felons, and the curious "Jews for Buchanan" phenomenon with the butterfly ballot. If you count the votes, Gore won. If you don't count the votes, Bush won. It's that simple.

What does this mean? It means Gore won both the electoral college and the popular vote. It means the man currently in the oval office is a not a legitimate president. It means democracy was defeated in the year 2000. It means Americans are now living under a coup. Never lose sight of these facts.

Here follows the results in full of the NORC recount. Six different standards for hanging chads and such were considered. All six scenarios resulted in a Gore victory.

-PREVAILING STANDARD: County election officials told Florida journalists how they would define votes if required to do a recount and in this scenario the majority standard was imposed statewide. In punch-card counties, ballots with at least one corner of a chad detached counted as votes. In optical scan counties, where voters are required to fill in blanks on a paper ballot -- like on a standardized test -- ballots with any affirmative marks counted. That means a vote counted even if the oval was not completely filled in or a candidate's name was circled or underlined; so did ballots on which a voter correctly filled in the oval and also wrote the same candidate's name in the space for write-ins.

Result: Gore ahead by 60 votes.

-TWO-CORNER STANDARD: At least two corners of a chad must be detached to count as a vote, a position that had been argued, at times, by Bush supporters. Same as prevailing standard for optical scan ballots.

Result: Gore ahead by 105 votes.

-MOST INCLUSIVE: Ballots with dimpled chads count as votes, an argument often made by Gore supporters. Same as prevailing standard for optical scan ballots.

Result: Gore ahead by 107 votes.

-LEAST INCLUSIVE: Only cleanly punched chads count as valid votes. For optical scan, only fully filled ovals and those ballots on which a voter filled in the oval and wrote in the candidate's name, too.

Result: Gore ahead by 115 votes.

-COUNTY-by-COUNTY: Drawn from the county election officials. It accepts results from Broward and Volusia counties because those counties completed hand counts that were included in state-certified election totals. For those counties that said they would not count overvotes, relies on prevailing standard.

Result: Gore ahead by 171 votes.

-PALM BEACH STANDARD: Based on a standard Palm Beach election officials briefly used, this counts dimpled chads as valid votes if a pattern of dimpled chads exists elsewhere on the same ballot. Same as prevailing standard for optical scan ballots.

Result: Gore ahead by 42 votes.

Media reaction

A close examination of the ballots suggests that more Floridians attempted to choose Gore over Bush. -- Chicago Tribune

Gore would have won most recount scenarios that included "overvotes," ballots that showed votes for more than one candidate. Democrats long have contended that a plurality of Florida voters intended to cast their ballots for Gore but that thousands spoiled their votes because of confusing instructions, badly designed ballots or other obstacles. The study adds evidence to bolster that case. -- LA Times

One of the most compelling questions since the election has been: Who would have won if all the uncounted ballots were hand-counted using the same standards? If that had happened using the counting methods most widely used in the state, the
study shows, Bush would have gotten an extra 3,607 votes, Gore an extra 4,204 -- giving Gore the state by a scant 60-vote margin. -- Orlando Sentinel

But if Gore had found a way to trigger a statewide recount of all disputed ballots,
or if the courts had required it, the result likely would have been different. An examination of uncounted ballots throughout Florida found enough where voter intent was clear to give Gore the narrowest of margins. -- Washington Post

Translation from Washington Post whorespeak to English: The study showed the majority of Floridians voted for Gore.

The consortium looked at what might have happened if a statewide recount had included these overvotes as well and found that Gore would have had a margin of fewer than 200 votes -- CNN

Translation from CNN whorespeak to English: The study showed the majority of Floridians voted for Gore.

The findings indicate that Mr. Gore might have eked out a victory if he had pursued in court a course like the one he publicly advocated when he called on the state to "count all the votes." -- NY Times

Translation from NY Times whorespeak to English: The study showed the majority of Floridians voted for Gore.

A vote-by-vote review of untallied ballots in the 2000 Florida presidential election commissioned by the nation's main media outlets shows Al Gore edged ahead of George W. Bush "under all the scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes statewide," the Drudge Report has learned. -- Matt Drudge

Don't ever let anyone tell you to "get over" this, folks. You don't get over the subversion of democracy in the most powerful nation on the planet. You don't get over an illegal coup. Don't let the Republicans get away with the most monumental theft in history. You owe a debt to your ancestors as well as your children to ensure that this crime is never forgotten.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If you think the New York Times is a Right Wing news paper your a bigger moron then i thought you was ... and like a give two $hit about anything the naacp does ... cause if there is a trustworthy group you know its the naacp , yea right ... i noticed in recount the Dems didn't even want Jessie Jackson around and who can blame them .

Don't let me down hymie town ....

along with the NY Times
i guess the A.P. , Purdue , PBS , USA Today, CNN , MSNBC are all in the tank for Bush cause they all wrote reports saying bush won ... some even said if there was a statewide recount bush gains votes and widens the margin ... try reading a little before you b**** and moan like a typical @$$hole

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/media_watch/jan-june01/recount_4-3.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-04-03-floridamain.htm


you know all the media in the country so loves Bush which is why i guess they would lie and say he won LOL ........ you kill me L.A you should change you sig to Rev. Wright cause your just like him ...

Holy crap! Yikes!

You are one clueless, uninformed, semi-literate half-wit.

Are you really denying that the NY Times did its utmost to help sell Bush's ill-advised and ill-fated invasion of Iraq to the American public?

(Did you miss the public apology the newspaper published after the fact?)

And were you absent when the Times' star reporter did ~80 days in jail protecting Scooter and the rest of Team Bush in the Plame investigation?

As for the NAACP suit I mentioned - you really have no clue what I'm talking about, do you?

The NAACP won a suit against FL Secretary of State K. Harris and ChoicePoint (the company Harris and Jeb Bush used to compile the list of voters who were illegally purged from the FL voter rolls in 2000.)

Harris and ChoicePoint admitted guilt in the case - they basically said "you got us - we're guilty as charged."

Hence, take away the ~40,000+ voters who were illegally purged and Gore wins easily.

You really ought to try picking up a newspaper once and awhile instead of getting all of your "news" from Rehab Rush, Sean Insannity, and Bill O'Liely.

[TDmvp]

All the votes were counted, and recounted, and counted again. And not a single recount, either by local boards or major news organizations, found a way for Gore to win. A comprehensive review of 64,248 ballots in all 67 Florida counties by the Miami Herald and its parent company, Knight Ridder, in partnership with USA Today, found that Bush's slender margin of 537 votes would have tripled to 1,665 votes even under the generous counting standards advocated by Gore. for like the 10th time you tool ...


and for the record i hate Rush , and Sean .... i will watch Bill every once and awhile depending on the guest , cause i hate Dick Morris and most the people he has on , i do like Dennis Miller ....


Hence, take away the ~40,000+ voters who were illegally purged and Gore wins easily.



http://www.tshirttrader.com/images/youlost200.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Did I say "semi-literate?"

It's now clear to me that you can't read at all.

Recount proved Gore won under all scenarios <hr style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message --> "In the review of all the state's disputed ballots, Gore edged ahead under all six scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes statewide"

- Associated Press

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1969599&postcount=31

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

America lost - not just Gore supporters.

If you haven't realized that by now then you are even more clueless and hopeless than I thought.

[TDmvp]

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Boston-Celtics-Photograph-C13109738.jpeg



;D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Nice pic of the next victims of the lake show. :thumbsup:

[spdirty]

Im about an hour and a half through it, I agree with The Dave. Dems seemed to bring a knife to a gunfight. And Baker was brilliant.

The bias of this movie is funny. All you have to listen to is the music that is played. When the Gore team gets momentum, happy upbeat music. When the Bush team gets momentum, sad, spooky music.

I don't know, its entertaining.

[Bronco Jamus]

Texan Bob said what your own article said LA BRONCO FAN. Gore needed overvotrs to win... Aka discarded ballots.

Gore lost.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Texan Bob said what your own article said LA BRONCO FAN. Gore needed overvotrs to win... Aka discarded ballots.

Gore lost.

Um, wrong.

Recount proved Gore won under all scenarios "In the review of all the state's disputed ballots, Gore edged ahead under all six scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes statewide"

- Associated Press

[Bronco Jamus]

Gore would have won most recount scenarios that included "overvotes," ballots that showed votes for more than one candidate. Democrats long have contended that a plurality of Florida voters intended to cast their ballots for Gore but that thousands spoiled their votes because of confusing instructions, badly designed ballots or other obstacles. The study adds evidence to bolster that case. -- LA Times


He need discarded ballots to win. He lost. Get over it. Sorry.

[TailgateNut]

He need discarded ballots to win. He lost. Get over it. Sorry.


No asswipe. The whole damn country got ****ed by Bush and his evil entourage.

..and NO, we wont get over it anytime soon. The damage done by this will take decades to reverse.

Sorry? Yes you are a sorry human being for celebrating a stolen election.

[Bronco Jamus]

No asswipe. The whole damn country got ****ed by Bush and his evil entourage.

..and NO, we wont get over it anytime soon. The damage done by this will take decades to reverse.

Sorry? Yes you are a sorry human being for celebrating a stolen election.

It's not stolen buddy, sorry.. It's right there in LA's own article. Gore needed ballots that had both candidates voted for to win. Get over it and move on. Now you get a choice between Obama and McCain.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It's not stolen buddy, sorry.. It's right there in LA's own article. Gore needed ballots that had both candidates voted for to win. Get over it and move on. Now you get a choice between Obama and McCain.

Holy sh*t - you have some serious reading comprehension troubles.

Here is what the article says:

Recount proved Gore won under all scenarios

"In the review of all the state's disputed ballots, Gore edged ahead under all six scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes statewide"

- Associated Press

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No asswipe. The whole damn country got ****ed by Bush and his evil entourage.

..and NO, we wont get over it anytime soon. The damage done by this will take decades to reverse.

Sorry? Yes you are a sorry human being for celebrating a stolen election.

QFT.

I'm not sure which is more morally reprehensible - his attempt to deny two stolen elections or his continued defense of this incredibly corrupt, incompetent administration.

[TailgateNut]

It's not stolen buddy, sorry.. It's right there in LA's own article. Gore needed ballots that had both candidates voted for to win. Get over it and move on. Now you get a choice between Obama and McCain.


No one ever "accused" you of being bright!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No one ever "accused" you of being bright!

:yep:

You can't help but get the impression that he's one of those people who voted for GeeDubya to strike a blow against those people with brains. ;)

[Bronco Jamus]

Holy sh*t - you have some serious reading comprehension troubles.

Here is what the article says:

Further down in your own article it says that Gore needed discarded ballots to win from the paper in your own town. Not to mention that the AP portion you presented is false. Gore lost and it's time you "bright" people got over the fact that he lost. If he was so sure he was President he would have ran in 04 when Kerry lost. The truth is and it's been mentioned before in this thread:

Had Gore won his own state he would have had the votes to win the election. Sorry guys.

[TexanBob]

You can't rewind the clock. If the officials make a bad call, you still continue the game. You aren't allowed to start over again from November 2000. Life must go on.

It's getting close to eight years ago now. For your own mental health, you deniers need to move on.

As far as I'm concerned, the Democrats and their allies tried to steal the 2000 election and came thisclose to getting away with it, doing everything from suppressing votes in the Florida panhandle to disallowing military votes to attempting to recount votes in secret to the fiasco that led to thousands of votes for Pat Buchanon in Palm Beach County to changing election law after the votes were cast.

That so many on the left believe Republicans stole the election is to turn a blind eye to the many documentable ways Democrats actually did attempt to steal that election.

But it's in the history books now and, like the Civil War, only fools continue to fight it.

I wonder if HBO would be interested in showing a movie that tells the 2000 election from the Republican perspective? I doubt it. "Recount" is propaganda, pure and simple. Just as the liberal media always does - giving you only one side of the story and telling you only what they want you to believe.

[Rohirrim]

I've moved on. I realize that Catherine Harris, at the behest of Jeb and George Bush, illegally struck thousands of African American voters from the polls and thereby stole an election for their candidate. They, and their cohorts, are a toilet smear on the pages of American history. Nothing can be done about it now. The dead are dead. The thousands of wounded Americans must live out their lives as best they can. The money is stuffed in Halliburton's offshore accounts. Cheney retires to his Halliburton millions and Dubya to $20 mil speaking tours. Condi is off to some Of Counsel millions at Standard Oil. We can only contemplate what might have been had Gore been allowed his rightful place in the Oval Office.

It does warm my heart that Katherine Harris got the shiv in the back from her Repug cronies. She should have known in advance; That's how they play the game.

[TexanBob]

We can only contemplate what might have been had Gore been allowed his rightful place in the Oval Office.


Oh, I can guess. Al Qaeda would have easily blown up more American planes and buildings making the death toll in Iraq look like child's play in comparison. That would be all the excuse Gore would need to declare Martial Law and force through all sorts of legislative mischief. Gore would have made it mandatory for all Americans to take classes to understand why Arabs hate us so much and what we can do to make ourselves more peaceful.

Gasoline would be $5.00/gal due to environmental regulations and compliance with Kyoto. Oh, and lights out because it's more eco-friendly to sit in the dark than it is to burn lightbulbs that look like curly-q fries. While the elites like Clinton and Gore drive around in the same gas-guzzlers, the average joe would be stuck riding bicycles everywhere like Gore's Chinese pals advised him. Who knows - Gore might also have passed a one-child-only policy like China has.

On top of receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, Gore would have been awarded North Korea's highest honor.

But, fear not. Our brave soldiers would all be safe at home since Gore would be too cowardly to ever put them in battle, afraid it might cost him poll numbers.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Further down in your own article it says that Gore needed discarded ballots to win from the paper in your own town. Not to mention that the AP portion you presented is false. Gore lost and it's time you "bright" people got over the fact that he lost. If he was so sure he was President he would have ran in 04 when Kerry lost. The truth is and it's been mentioned before in this thread:

Had Gore won his own state he would have had the votes to win the election. Sorry guys.

Reading comprehension just isn't your strong suit - we get it.

Slowly: There were six possible scenarios for counting the votes.

Gore won under all six.

Furthermore, you must not have heard about the suit the NAACP won vs. Harris and ChoicePoint. Take away the ~40,000 voters who were illegally purged from the rolls and Gore wins easily.

Bush stole the election. It's time you and those who are still enabling this crook 'fessed up to the fact.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Oh, I can guess. Al Qaeda would have easily blown up more American planes and buildings making the death toll in Iraq look like child's play in comparison. That would be all the excuse Gore would need to declare Martial Law and force through all sorts of legislative mischief. Gore would have made it mandatory for all Americans to take classes to understand why Arabs hate us so much and what we can do to make ourselves more peaceful.

Gasoline would be $5.00/gal due to environmental regulations and compliance with Kyoto. Oh, and lights out because it's more eco-friendly to sit in the dark than it is to burn lightbulbs that look like curly-q fries. While the elites like Clinton and Gore drive around in the same gas-guzzlers, the average joe would be stuck riding bicycles everywhere like Gore's Chinese pals advised him. Who knows - Gore might also have passed a one-child-only policy like China has.

On top of receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, Gore would have been awarded North Korea's highest honor.

But, fear not. Our brave soldiers would all be safe at home since Gore would be too cowardly to ever put them in battle, afraid it might cost him poll numbers.

You forgot to acknowledge your source...

http://www.bartcop.com/rush-oxycontin2.jpg

[Rohirrim]

Oh, I can guess. Al Qaeda would have easily blown up more American planes and buildings making the death toll in Iraq look like child's play in comparison. That would be all the excuse Gore would need to declare Martial Law and force through all sorts of legislative mischief. Gore would have made it mandatory for all Americans to take classes to understand why Arabs hate us so much and what we can do to make ourselves more peaceful.

Gasoline would be $5.00/gal due to environmental regulations and compliance with Kyoto. Oh, and lights out because it's more eco-friendly to sit in the dark than it is to burn lightbulbs that look like curly-q fries. While the elites like Clinton and Gore drive around in the same gas-guzzlers, the average joe would be stuck riding bicycles everywhere like Gore's Chinese pals advised him. Who knows - Gore might also have passed a one-child-only policy like China has.

On top of receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, Gore would have been awarded North Korea's highest honor.

But, fear not. Our brave soldiers would all be safe at home since Gore would be too cowardly to ever put them in battle, afraid it might cost him poll numbers.

God, what an ass. It's troglodytes like you that put human turds like Bush, the worst president in the history of America, in office.

[TailgateNut]

Oh, I can guess. Al Qaeda would have easily blown up more American planes and buildings making the death toll in Iraq look like child's play in comparison. That would be all the excuse Gore would need to declare Martial Law and force through all sorts of legislative mischief. Gore would have made it mandatory for all Americans to take classes to understand why Arabs hate us so much and what we can do to make ourselves more peaceful.

Gasoline would be $5.00/gal due to environmental regulations and compliance with Kyoto. Oh, and lights out because it's more eco-friendly to sit in the dark than it is to burn lightbulbs that look like curly-q fries. While the elites like Clinton and Gore drive around in the same gas-guzzlers, the average joe would be stuck riding bicycles everywhere like Gore's Chinese pals advised him. Who knows - Gore might also have passed a one-child-only policy like China has.

On top of receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, Gore would have been awarded North Korea's highest honor.

But, fear not. Our brave soldiers would all be safe at home since Gore would be too cowardly to ever put them in battle, afraid it might cost him poll numbers.


No wonder they call it Texass!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

God, what an ass. It's troglodytes like you that put human turds like Bush, the worst president in the history of America, in office.

QFT.

BaghdadTexasBob gets the blue ribbon for willful ignorance and for complete disregard for whether what he says correspond to facts in the physical world.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No wonder they call it Texass!

:yep:

What other state would elect a miserable failure and a con man like Bush as its governor and, after getting screwed six ways from Sunday, turn around and support the smirking sociopath's bid for the presidency?

[Bronco Jamus]

We can only contemplate what might have been had Gore been allowed his rightful place in the Oval Office.

.

Except Gore didn't win unless they counted votes that couldn't be read or votes with both candidates marked. And now because of the bitching we have electronic voting machines which are vulnerable targets for botched programming, bugs, and uncertain reliability

[Bronco Jamus]

Reading comprehension just isn't your strong suit - we get it.

Slowly: There were six possible scenarios for counting the votes.

Gore won under all six.

Furthermore, you must not have heard about the suit the NAACP won vs. Harris and ChoicePoint. Take away the ~40,000 voters who were illegally purged from the rolls and Gore wins easily.

Bush stole the election. It's time you and those who are still enabling this crook 'fessed up to the fact.

Won all six with under and overvotes, which are damaged ballots. It's in your own article. The election wasn't stolen. Gore lost. Get over it.

[Bronco Jamus]

But, fear not. Our brave soldiers would all be safe at home since Gore would be too cowardly to ever put them in battle, afraid it might cost him poll numbers.

I don't know about that. I think we would not have gone into Iraq, because it was obviously a grudge match. We would have gone into Afghanistan, and I think Gore could only have managed it better than GWB.

[Bronco Jamus]

God, what an ass. It's troglodytes like you that put human turds like Bush, the worst president in the history of America, in office.

Calm down.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I don't know about that. I think we would not have gone into Iraq, because it was obviously a grudge match. We would have gone into Afghanistan, and I think Gore could only have managed it better than GWB.

Gore would not have gone on vacation when he was told that al Qaeda was planning a major terrorist attack inside the U.S.

Nor would he have sh*t-canned Hart-Rudman and the rest of Clinton's CT program and ignored numerous warnings from multiple intel sources that an attack was imminent.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Won all six with under and overvotes, which are damaged ballots. It's in your own article. The election wasn't stolen. Gore lost. Get over it.

Still having those comprehension troubles I see.

1) Gore won under all scenarios for counting the votes. Period.

2) Take away the ~40,000 voters illegally purged by Harris/ChoicePoint (who admitted guilt in the suit against them) and that gives Gore the victory (and we're not even taking all the other Republican frauds into account.)

3) If "get over it" is your response to the subversion of the principles upon which this country was founded then you don't deserve to be an American.

[Bronco Jamus]

Still having those comprehension troubles I see.

1) Gore won under all scenarios for counting the votes. Period.



Using undervotes and overvotes, which are unreadable ballots. Gore lost bud, sorry. It's amusing you think that unreadable ballots should count. Everybody did what they were supposed to do, and the Supreme Counrt was right to put a stop to the garbage of trying to change election law in the middle of the election. Any which way you slice it, Gore lost. Unless you count unreadable ballots.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Using undervotes and overvotes, which are unreadable ballots. Gore lost bud, sorry.

Wrong.

What part of "all six standards for counting votes" don't you understand?

I can only conclude that you are simply ignoring the standards and making up your own.

[Bronco Jamus]

Wrong.

What part of "all six standards for counting votes" don't you understand?

I can only conclude that you are simply ignoring the standards and making up your own.

No. You are the one using your own misguided logic. It says all six senarios using under and over votes. Which are discarded ballots. They don't count. He lost. Sorry. Get over it.

[Bronco Jamus]

Recount proved Gore won under all scenarios

"In the review of all the state's disputed ballots, Gore edged ahead under all six scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes statewide"

- Associated Press

I think the kids would say you've been owned by your own post. LOL

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

They don't count.

According to whom?

Apparently you have decided to ignore the rules and make up your own.

I think the kids would say you've been owned by your own post.

And then you woke up. Hilarious!

[Rohirrim]

In the final determination of Florida officials (under the command of Bush's brother) Bush was given the presidency of the United States by 543 votes. Gore won the nation-wide popular vote.

The Florida Secretary of State’s Office hired a private firm known as Database Technologies, Inc. (now ChoicePoint Corporation) to identify convicted felons and remove them from Florida’s voting rolls. Prior to the election, 94,000 voters were removed (Kelly, 2002). This is legal if someone has been convicted of a felony, but as it turns out, 97 percent were innocent and should not have been removed. "The list was full of mistakes mainly because of the criteria [the database company] used. It compared its list of felons with the Florida voting rolls by looking for a rough match between the names and dates of birth. Thus a Christine Smith could have been disqualified if there had been a Christopher Smith of the same age with a felony record somewhere in the US. [the database company] also used race as a matching criterion, skewing the impact of the errors even more against black voters" (Borger & Palast, 2001). As The Nation magazine reported, "immediately after the November 7, 2000 election, minority voters who had never committed crimes complained of having had their names removed from voting rolls in a purge of ‘ex-felons,’ of being denied translation services required by law, … and of harassment by poll workers and law-enforcement officials." The list of voters denied the right to vote was overwhelmingly Democratic and half were minorities (Kelly, 2002). Al Gore neither protested the disenfranchisement nor supported these voters’ lawsuit to regain their vote.http://www.cagreens.org/alameda/city/0803myth/myth.html

Really all anyone needs to know about that "so called" election. The hanging chads argument is completely besides the point.

[gunns]

Oh, I can guess. Al Qaeda would have easily blown up more American planes and buildings making the death toll in Iraq look like child's play in comparison.

Why? Because Gore wouldn't have gone to Iraq? Bush didn't take care of Al Queda and I haven't seen nor heard of more American buildings being blown up. LOL

That would be all the excuse Gore would need to declare Martial Law and force through all sorts of legislative mischief.

You don't think Bush has force through all sorts of legislative mischief???

Gasoline would be $5.00/gal due to environmental regulations and compliance with Kyoto.

Pretty close to that now....and gee with no environmental regulations.

Our brave soldiers would all be safe at home since Gore would be too cowardly to ever put them in battle, afraid it might cost him poll numbers.


Now that would be a tragedy. What war exactly would you like Gore to go into, the BS one we're in now? And you would call that cowardly? Who knows, maybe Gore would have actually gone after Al Queda and Bin Laden. I sincerely doubt Gore would have been as mentally inept as Bush.

You'd think that those that voted for Bush would like this movie. At least it gave them a scape goat for him getting elected and takes some of the blame from them.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

In the final determination of Florida officials (under the command of Bush's brother) Bush was given the presidency of the United States by 543 votes. Gore won the nation-wide popular vote.

The Florida Secretary of State’s Office hired a private firm known as Database Technologies, Inc. (now ChoicePoint Corporation) to identify convicted felons and remove them from Florida’s voting rolls. Prior to the election, 94,000 voters were removed (Kelly, 2002). This is legal if someone has been convicted of a felony, but as it turns out, 97 percent were innocent and should not have been removed. "The list was full of mistakes mainly because of the criteria [the database company] used. It compared its list of felons with the Florida voting rolls by looking for a rough match between the names and dates of birth. Thus a Christine Smith could have been disqualified if there had been a Christopher Smith of the same age with a felony record somewhere in the US. [the database company] also used race as a matching criterion, skewing the impact of the errors even more against black voters" (Borger & Palast, 2001). As The Nation magazine reported, "immediately after the November 7, 2000 election, minority voters who had never committed crimes complained of having had their names removed from voting rolls in a purge of ‘ex-felons,’ of being denied translation services required by law, … and of harassment by poll workers and law-enforcement officials." The list of voters denied the right to vote was overwhelmingly Democratic and half were minorities (Kelly, 2002). Al Gore neither protested the disenfranchisement nor supported these voters’ lawsuit to regain their vote.http://www.cagreens.org/alameda/city/0803myth/myth.html

Really all anyone needs to know about that "so called" election. The hanging chads argument is completely besides the point.

Bingo.

Take away just this one Republican fraud, and Gore wins easily.

The right-wing ninnies who tell you to "get over it" are essentially admitting that they condone whatever measures are necessary to "win" - no matter how illegal or fraudulent.

[Rohirrim]

Bingo.

Take away just this one Republican fraud, and Gore wins easily.

The right-wing ninnies who tell you to "get over it" are essentially admitting that they condone whatever measures are necessary to "win" - no matter how illegal or fraudulent.

The MO of the Republican Party has always been to claim moral superiority while committing all manner of crimes against the American people in order to further enrich themselves. It's their basic schtick: They hold up the bible while sodomizing children, they ban gay marriage while giving BJs in airport men's rooms, they say the pledge of allegiance while killing your children in wars built on lies. No matter what crime is taking place you can always tell the Republican. He's the one using the distraction of his dying countrymen to stuff money in his pockets.

[Spider]

Oh, I can guess. Al Qaeda would have easily blown up more American planes and buildings making the death toll in Iraq look like child's play in comparison. That would be all the excuse Gore would need to declare Martial Law and force through all sorts of legislative mischief. Gore would have made it mandatory for all Americans to take classes to understand why Arabs hate us so much and what we can do to make ourselves more peaceful.

Gasoline would be $5.00/gal due to environmental regulations and compliance with Kyoto. Oh, and lights out because it's more eco-friendly to sit in the dark than it is to burn lightbulbs that look like curly-q fries. While the elites like Clinton and Gore drive around in the same gas-guzzlers, the average joe would be stuck riding bicycles everywhere like Gore's Chinese pals advised him. Who knows - Gore might also have passed a one-child-only policy like China has.

On top of receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, Gore would have been awarded North Korea's highest honor.

But, fear not. Our brave soldiers would all be safe at home since Gore would be too cowardly to ever put them in battle, afraid it might cost him poll numbers.

you need to learn how to masterbate ..Next time you have an Idea pop into your head that makes sense to you ......Masterbate ........ it will save you a lot of hassle

[Bronco Jamus]

In the final determination of Florida officials (under the command of Bush's brother) Bush was given the presidency of the United States by 543 votes. Gore won the nation-wide popular vote.

The Florida Secretary of State’s Office hired a private firm known as Database Technologies, Inc. (now ChoicePoint Corporation) to identify convicted felons and remove them from Florida’s voting rolls. Prior to the election, 94,000 voters were removed (Kelly, 2002). This is legal if someone has been convicted of a felony, but as it turns out, 97 percent were innocent and should not have been removed. "The list was full of mistakes mainly because of the criteria [the database company] used. It compared its list of felons with the Florida voting rolls by looking for a rough match between the names and dates of birth. Thus a Christine Smith could have been disqualified if there had been a Christopher Smith of the same age with a felony record somewhere in the US. [the database company] also used race as a matching criterion, skewing the impact of the errors even more against black voters" (Borger & Palast, 2001). As The Nation magazine reported, "immediately after the November 7, 2000 election, minority voters who had never committed crimes complained of having had their names removed from voting rolls in a purge of ‘ex-felons,’ of being denied translation services required by law, … and of harassment by poll workers and law-enforcement officials." The list of voters denied the right to vote was overwhelmingly Democratic and half were minorities (Kelly, 2002). Al Gore neither protested the disenfranchisement nor supported these voters’ lawsuit to regain their vote.http://www.cagreens.org/alameda/city/0803myth/myth.html

Really all anyone needs to know about that "so called" election. The hanging chads argument is completely besides the point.

Felons aren't allowed to vote. It's against the law. And I don't believe that minorites were excluded from their right to vote. This is a standard tactic to claim this employed in the DNC election handbook.
The removal of the felons was also done prior to the election according to the blurb.

He lost. Get over it.

[Rohirrim]

Felons aren't allowed to vote. It's against the law. And I don't believe that minorites were excluded from their right to vote. This is a standard tactic to claim this employed in the DNC election handbook.
The removal of the felons was also done prior to the election according to the blurb.

He lost. Get over it.

Do you really think that just because you believe something, it's true? You need to work on your maturity level, Jiminy Cricket.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Felons aren't allowed to vote. It's against the law.

Damn! :oyvey:

Do you ever comprehend even one word of what you read?

These people were NOT felons.

This was established in a court of law when Harris and ChoicePoint were found guilty of illegally purging these voters from the rolls.

You are like some kind of machine that keeps spewing out Rehab Rush disinfo even after it has already been debunked.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The MO of the Republican Party has always been to claim moral superiority while committing all manner of crimes against the American people in order to further enrich themselves. It's their basic schtick: They hold up the bible while sodomizing children, they ban gay marriage while giving BJs in airport men's rooms, they say the pledge of allegiance while killing your children in wars built on lies. No matter what crime is taking place you can always tell the Republican. He's the one using the distraction of his dying countrymen to stuff money in his pockets.

QFT. :yep:

[epicSocialism4tw]

Its unfortunate that there are so many Americans who lack critical thinking skills. We are darn near swamped by them.

When you are swayed to truth by propaganda without even realizing it, you purely illustrate the sad state of affairs with the general American intellect. Here's the problem: there is no intellect. There is more than enough blind backbiting by fools who are convinced that they, in fact, know something, to fill the world with mindless carrot-chasers for generations to come.

Emotive, reactionary rhetoric is celebrated while debate and discussion are discouraged.

Our country is far removed from the philosophical beacon that it was born as, and has become a sesspool for powermongering id-iots who infect the rest of the population with ideological cephalitis.

This country is done.

Frizzle-fried.

[Rohirrim]

Its unfortunate that there are so many Americans who lack critical thinking skills. We are darn near swamped by them.

When you are swayed to truth by propaganda without even realizing it, you purely illustrate the sad state of affairs with the general American intellect. Here's the problem: there is no intellect. There is more than enough blind backbiting by fools who are convinced that they, in fact, know something, to fill the world with mindless carrot-chasers for generations to come.

Emotive, reactionary rhetoric is celebrated while debate and discussion are discouraged.

Our country is far removed from the philosophical beacon that it was born as, and has become a sesspool for powermongering id-iots who infect the rest of the population with ideological cephalitis.

This country is done.

Frizzle-fried.

I just love you little Pollyannas who think we've suddenly stumbled into some kind of weird phase where political rhetoric has become so nasty. Here's a list of the top ten dirtiest campaigns in American history. Number one is 1800, run by Thomas Jefferson. http://www.reason.com/news/show/38381.html

Anyway, the concept that Repugs are slime bags is backed by mountains of empirical evidence, and if you want to know when the modern version of slimeball political rhetoric started in this country, you only need to go look up Raygun's political hatchet man, Lee Atwater. Rove was merely an Atwater devotee. He's the one who gave birth to the new "eat your own children" brand of political rhetoric.

Meanwhile, if you can't stand the heat, Pollyanna, get out of the kitchen. ;)

[Bronco Jamus]

Do you really think that just because you believe something, it's true? You need to work on your maturity level, Jiminy Cricket.

Whatever you say mature guy.

[Bronco Jamus]

Damn! :oyvey:

Do you ever comprehend even one word of what you read?

These people were NOT felons.

This was established in a court of law when Harris and ChoicePoint were found guilty of illegally purging these voters from the rolls.

You are like some kind of machine that keeps spewing out Rehab Rush disinfo even after it has already been debunked.

I did read that, but it's unclear to how those people would have voted.

[TDmvp]

I did read that, but it's unclear to how those people would have voted.

now now Jamus you know every uncast , unreadable , unallowed vote was for Gore , :poke:

!Booya!

[Bronco Jamus]

now now Jamus you know every uncast , unreadable , unallowed vote was for Gore , :poke:

!Booya!

It would appear that way based on some of the comments here. Had Gore only carried his own state he would have won.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I did read that, but it's unclear to how those people would have voted.

You read it, huh?

You must have missed this part:

The list of voters denied the right to vote was overwhelmingly Democratic and half were minorities

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It would appear that way based on some of the comments here. Had Gore only carried his own state he would have won.

He didn't need it - he won Florida when you take away the illegal voter purge for which Harris/ChoicePoint were found guilty.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

now now Jamus you know every uncast , unreadable , unallowed vote was for Gore , :poke:

!Booya!

He wasn't talking about the recount, nitwit - he was talking about the Harris/ChoicePoint suit. :wave:

[Bronco Jamus]

You read it, huh?

You must have missed this part:

That doesn't tell you how they would have voted.

[Bronco Jamus]

He didn't need it - he won Florida when you take away the illegal voter purge for which Harris/ChoicePoint were found guilty.

Maybe. And Maybe not. The mail votes were not counted either from overseas. But who knows how they would have voted either.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That doesn't tell you how they would have voted.

Um, yes it does: It says in plain English that they were overwhelmingly Democratic.

Why else do think Harris and the FL repugs would target them for an illegal voter purge operation?

Use that gray matter between your ears, son. :welcome:

[Bronco Jamus]

Um, yes it does: It says in plain English that they were overwhelmingly Democratic.

Why else do think Harris and the FL repugs would target them for an illegal voter purge operation?


That means they are registered as Democrats, but that doesn't mean they would have voted for Gore. I used to be a registered Democrat and voted the candidate I think is best for the job regardless of party affliation.

Checkpoint - obviously didn't give their program due diligence and error check their system. It's a mistake. There is no way they could have colluded to eliminate those people on purpose because they don't know how those people would have voted and the number of 90k is not enough to ensure victory. Half-baked cheating isn't a solid plan. If they were going to cheat they would need something fool-proof and eliminate at least a million voters. The lesson here is to get government from knowing our "party affliation". It's none of their business.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I just love you little Pollyannas who think we've suddenly stumbled into some kind of weird phase where political rhetoric has become so nasty. Here's a list of the top ten dirtiest campaigns in American history. Number one is 1800, run by Thomas Jefferson. http://www.reason.com/news/show/38381.html
Anyway, the concept that Repugs are slime bags is backed by mountains of empirical evidence, and if you want to know when the modern version of slimeball political rhetoric started in this country, you only need to go look up Raygun's political hatchet man, Lee Atwater. Rove was merely an Atwater devotee. He's the one who gave birth to the new "eat your own children" brand of political rhetoric.
Meanwhile, if you can't stand the heat, Pollyanna, get out of the kitchen. ;)

I think that you were mistaken in your interpretation of what I wrote.

I was complaining about the state of intellect of the populace, not of the purveyors of propaganda.

And yes, people are generally uneducated and unwilling to become educated. It is nothing new. It is also the means by which people are divided and conquered politically.

Here's the rub: the American media (led by power hungry idiots themselves) is committed to propaganda. This has always been true to some extent, but being historically consistent doesnt make it right or good.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That means they are registered as Democrats, but that doesn't mean they would have voted for Gore. I used to be a registered Democrat and voted the candidate I think is best for the job regardless of party affliation.

Get real!

We're talking about ~90,000 registered Democrats here (a large percentage of whom were African Americans.)

If you honestly believe some significant percentage of this group was planning to vote for Bush, then I have some ocean front property in Wyoming that might interest you.

Again: Why would Harris, Jeb Bush, and ChoicePoint target these people for an illegal voter purge unless they were expecting them to vote for Gore?


Checkpoint - obviously didn't give their program due diligence and error check their system. It's a mistake. There is no way they could have colluded to eliminate those people on purpose....

:bs:

They admitted guilt! They basically said "you got us."

It wasn't a "mistake" - they were found guilty in a court of law.

You haven't done your homework here.

...because they don't know how those people would have voted...

:bs:

They might not have exact numbers, but they could certainly come up with an estimate that would get them right in the ball park.

That's their area of expertise.

If they weren't certain that the purge would accomplish its goal, then they wouldn't go to the time, trouble, and expense - and they certainly wouldn't take such a risk.


and the number of 90k is not enough to ensure victory.

:bs:

Either you don't remember the margin of "victory" for Bush in FL or your grasp of simple arithmetic is extremely poor.

Half-baked cheating isn't a solid plan. If they were going to cheat they would need something fool-proof and eliminate at least a million voters.

Nothing "half-baked" about it.

They knew they would get the numbers they needed - even if a small number of registered Dems voted for Bush.

[Bronco Jamus]

"Get real!

We're talking about ~90,000 registered Democrats here (a large percentage of whom were African Americans.)

If you honestly believe some significant percentage of this group was planning to vote for Bush, then I have some ocean front property in Wyoming that might interest you.

Again: Why would Harris, Jeb Bush, and ChoicePoint target these people for an illegal voter purge unless they were expecting them to vote for Gore?"
:bs:

They admitted guilt! They basically said "you got us."

It wasn't a "mistake" - they were found guilty in a court of law.

You haven't done your homework here."

90k isn't enough. So this stupid President and administration somehow new exactly which state to cheat in and exactly how close the election would be to target on purpose 90k worth of people? The probablity of success is so low that it wouldn't make sense. I have almost 15 years of program and system design and worked with more than 50 companies from one degree to or another. These types of flaws in architecture and design happen all the time. They didn't error check their work and design. It's more likely a mistake than anything.







":bs:

They might not have exact numbers, but they could certainly come up with an estimate that would get them right in the ball park.

That's their area of expertise.

If they weren't certain that the purge would accomplish its goal, then they wouldn't go to the time, trouble, and expense - and they certainly wouldn't take such a risk. "

I agree, and in that same vien from a risk perspective:

They have no idea how whomever would have vote. Doesn't matter how they registered or their color of skin.



":bs:

Either you don't remember the margin of "victory" for Bush in FL or your grasp of simple arithmetic is extremely poor.



Nothing "half-baked" about it.

They knew they would get the numbers they needed - even if a small number of registered Dems voted for Bush."

They have no idea or assurance on how anyone would have voted.

[BroncoBuff]

The MO of the Republican Party has always been to claim moral superiority while committing all manner of crimes against the American people in order to further enrich themselves. It's their basic schtick: They hold up the bible while sodomizing children, they ban gay marriage while giving BJs in airport men's rooms, they say the pledge of allegiance while killing your children in wars built on lies. No matter what crime is taking place you can always tell the Republican. He's the one using the distraction of his dying countrymen to stuff money in his pockets.
Definitely ... the differences between the parties and their approaches to public discourse are immense in many ways, even more ways than you list. Example: If Gore had been president in 2000 - if you really think through what the political dynamc would be the past 7 years if the parties were switched: One year/18 months after after 9/11, the GOP would've called for Gore's impeachment because of the attacks and failure to capture OBL... they would've played up the PDBs a thousand times more than Democrats have. And called Dems weak, soft on defense. Later, as the 2004 election approached, GOPs would've howled for Gore's impeachment because OBL was still at large. That is ALL.THEY.WOULD.BE.TALKING.ABOUT as the 2008 elections approached. The commericals would start with video of the towers falling superimposed over a shot of OBL ... announcer: "Osama bin-Laden is out there somewhere tonight. Planning his next attack on the United States homeland," (shot of small children sleeping), "Don't you think we owe our children our best efforts to stop the next attack? Republicans won't appease terrorists who attack America ... Republicans will bring them to justice." And the GOP would win in a mega-landslide.

I become physically ill the way people joke ... "hey, bin-Laden has more videos out than Steven Spielberg! Hahahahaha Hahahahaha."

**** you Leno, where is the outrage? You bet your ass there would be some loud-ass freaking outrage if Gore was president. And Bushco doesn't even care. There's about 16,000 troops in the Afghani theater now, jeez, there were more people at the freaking Staples center for Lakers-Spurs last week. Where is the freaking outrage?

[Rohirrim]

If Gore was rightfully allowed to take office, I find it highly doubtful that 911 would have happened. In the first place, Gore had nothing against Richard Clarke, Clinton's terrorism czar. Since Gore was already in the loop about the USS Cole and the embassy attacks, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that Clarke would have had access to the Oval Office. In all likelihood, Gore would have made anti-terrorism a cabinet post. Clarke wouldn't have been begging after Condi's heels trying to get a royal audience. PDB 's would not have been ignored. The intelligence tree would have been shaken the way Clarke screamed at the Bush dolts to do for 8 months. And no doubt, the two hijackers taking flight lessons in San Diego would have come to the surface and the entire plot would have been uncovered.

Instead, we got Bush who spent the first 8 months in office ignoring the threat because he was too busy making sure his cronies in the oil and energy companies got to belly up to the government trough and wet their lips.

[Spider]

That doesn't tell you how they would have voted.

Knock it off ....... this is about the stupidest thing since the Ford Edsel .....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Knock it off ....... this is about the stupidest thing since the Ford Edsel .....

:yep:

Almost as stupid as his arithmetic, i.e., "90,000 (additional votes) wouldn't have been enough" to give Gore the win when Bush's margin of "victory" in Florida was 537 votes.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If Gore was rightfully allowed to take office, I find it highly doubtful that 911 would have happened. In the first place, Gore had nothing against Richard Clarke, Clinton's terrorism czar. Since Gore was already in the loop about the USS Cole and the embassy attacks, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that Clarke would have had access to the Oval Office. In all likelihood, Gore would have made anti-terrorism a cabinet post. Clarke wouldn't have been begging after Condi's heels trying to get a royal audience. PDB 's would not have been ignored. The intelligence tree would have been shaken the way Clarke screamed at the Bush dolts to do for 8 months. And no doubt, the two hijackers taking flight lessons in San Diego would have come to the surface and the entire plot would have been uncovered.

Instead, we got Bush who spent the first 8 months in office ignoring the threat because he was too busy making sure his cronies in the oil and energy companies got to belly up to the government trough and wet their lips.

QFT. :yep:

[BroncoBuff]

There's about 16,000 troops in the Afghani theater right now. Jeez, there were more people at the freaking Staples center for Lakers-Spurs last week. Where is the freaking outrage?
Quoting myself for truth.

More people at the freaking Staples Center than in all Afghanistan/Pakistan seaching for the perpetrator of the greatest crime in American history. This means one thing ... no doubt about, Bush is soft on terror.

[TailgateNut]

Quoting myself for truth.

More people at the freaking Staples Center than in all Afghanistan/Pakistan seaching for the perpetrator of the greatest crime in American history. This means one thing ... no doubt about, Bush is soft on terror.


He's been all talk, and no action for eight years. Unless it involves plots to line the pockets and employing "good ol' boys of questionable character and lack of credentials".

[Bronco Jamus]

:yep:

Almost as stupid as his arithmetic, i.e., "90,000 (additional votes) wouldn't have been enough" to give Gore the win when Bush's margin of "victory" in Florida was 537 votes.

You can't assume how any of those people would have voted. You just can't. Sorry. Gore lost. It's time you come to resolution on that fact.

[Rohirrim]

You can't assume how any of those people would have voted. You just can't. Sorry. Gore lost. It's time you come to resolution on that fact.

You're using the wrong wording. It's not "Gore lost and you need to deal with it." It's "The GOP stole the election through criminal means and got away with it and you need to come to a resolution on that fact." It's always best to be precise.

[TailgateNut]

You're using the wrong wording. It's not "Gore lost and you need to deal with it." It's "The GOP stole the election through criminal means and got away with it and you need to come to a resolution on that fact." It's always best to be precise.


Twisting the truth to defend criminal activity is a SOP for the family values party.;)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Twisting the truth to defend criminal activity is a SOP for the family values party.;)

True that.

They are textbook sociopaths defending one of their own.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You can't assume how any of those people would have voted.

Gee, it's too bad you didn't have an audience with Kathy Harris and Jeb Bush in 2000 - I'm sure you could have dissuaded them from going through with their illegal voter purge with your brilliant logic and superior grasp of voter forecasting.

ROFL!