Our leading rusher averaged 60.5 yards per game in games vs...

[lex]

playoff teams last year. And if you throw out Indy, its 44.13. Who here is looking forward to more of the same in 2008? Oh well, at least Jay will have 12 WRs to throw to. So do you think we did enough to improve our running game? Do you think we did anything to improve our running game?

[s0phr0syne]

I feel bad for you. Best thing you could do for yourself is start investing in hypertension medication.

[MileHighMagic]

What do you think the Clady pick was?

[lex]

I feel bad for you. Best thing you could do for yourself is start investing in hypertension medication.


Do you know of any? And to think Ive cut back on coffee recently.

[Dagmar]

You are a very tiresome poster who brings little, if anything, to this Broncos community.

[lex]

What do you think the Clady pick was?


Pass protection for Jay.

[Borks147]

firstly: 60 yards per game is still 1000 yard season.

secondly: we sucked last year, we got behind fast against playoff teams and had to resort to the pass fast, abandoning the run. Of course we're not going to have many rushing yards in those games!

thirdly, you forget that our O-line is going to be massively, massively improved next year with Clady and Nalen back, not to mention Kuper's maturation.

so yes, I think we did enough to improve our running game.

cheers!

[lex]

You are a very tiresome poster who brings little, if anything, to this Broncos community.
The stats speak for themselves. Sorry Im not enraptured by the euphoria like the rest of you but those are glaring numbers that Ive brought to you. You should be thanking me for bringing them to you.

[Northman]

firstly: 60 yards per game is still 1000 yard season.

secondly: we sucked last year, we got behind fast against playoff teams and had to resort to the pass fast, abandoning the run. Of course we're not going to have many rushing yards in those games!

thirdly, you forget that our O-line is going to be massively, massively improved next year with Clady and Nalen back, not to mention Kuper's maturation.

so yes, I think we did enough to improve our running game.

cheers!



Line? Who needs an Oline? If we had Mendenhall he would just roll over everyone. We dont need no line man! Are you insane? Ha! ROFL!

[lex]

firstly: 60 yards per game is still 1000 yard season.

secondly: we sucked last year, we got behind fast against playoff teams and had to resort to the pass fast, abandoning the run. Of course we're not going to have many rushing yards in those games!

thirdly, you forget that our O-line is going to be massively, massively improved next year with Clady and Nalen back, not to mention Kuper's maturation.

so yes, I think we did enough to improve our running game.

cheers!

Ill give you Kuper but no one knows if Harris can play when its live bullets. And there might actually be a year where Nalen's play severely drops off and Lichtensteiger's too inexperienced. And concussions are a bad problem to have...such is the case with Hamilton. Im glad you feel solid about the running game because I dont.

[DHallblows]

You're a fool.

Without an Oline, only a truly GREAT RB can thrive. One wasn't there at #12. Or at all this year. Our Oline over the past ten years have made a #22, a #26 and a #38 look amazing when they were alright at best. NOT the other way around. We need a good Oline, not a RB.

You're a fool.

[Bronco Jamus]

firstly: 60 yards per game is still 1000 yard season.

secondly: we sucked last year, we got behind fast against playoff teams and had to resort to the pass fast, abandoning the run. Of course we're not going to have many rushing yards in those games!

thirdly, you forget that our O-line is going to be massively, massively improved next year with Clady and Nalen back, not to mention Kuper's maturation.

so yes, I think we did enough to improve our running game.

cheers!

Absolutely.

[SureShot]

The stats speak for themselves. Sorry Im not enraptured by the euphoria like the rest of you but those are glaring numbers that Ive brought to you. You should be thanking me for bringing them to you.


You are an insufferable poster whose act has worn thin long ago. To not take into account the turmoil on the Oline is silly as are most of your takes.

[lex]

You're a fool.

Without an Oline, only a truly GREAT RB can thrive. One wasn't there at #12. Or at all this year. Our Oline over the past ten years have made a #22, a #26 and a #38 look amazing when they were alright at best. NOT the other way around. We need a good Oline, not a RB.

You're a fool.

What youre missing is that Im not saying we should have taken a RB at the expense of Oline? Ive always said that we should upgrade both. Nice try.

[Sassy]

toprol with lorazapam thrown in for anxiety ;D It will calm you.

[Kaylore]

Hi. My name is Lex and I'm a moron who thinks Running Backs should be taken in the first round. I don't understand blocking, or basic principles of football like how the game is decided at the LOS. I also believe that only the first round running backs will be any good and refuse to accept that later round ones can be any good. I have also decided to completely ignore that we are building the team around Cutler. There is nothing I can do about not taking Mendenhall or Stewart, but that won't stop from whining like it will change things in my tiny little world of rage.

Do you think we did anything to improve our running game?

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1210/ncf_i_clady_200.jpg

[Borks147]

Ill give you Kuper but no one knows if Harris can play when its live bullets. And there might actually be a year where Nalen's play severely drops off and Lichtensteiger's too inexperienced. And concussions are a bad problem to have...such is the case with Hamilton. Im glad you feel solid about the running game because I dont.

note in the original post I didn't mention anything about Hamiliton ( I have the same concern) or Harris.

I'll give you Nalen though, it sucks we let Meyers go. He wasn't a beast but he had a lot of experience in the interior and in center. And all we got in return was a 25 year old mormon with a jacked up knee. crap I'm starting to sound like you, nevermind.

[Northman]

What youre missing is that Im not saying we should have taken a RB at the expense of Oline? Ive always said that we should upgrade both. Nice try.

We did upgrade both or were you not paying attention to the draft? We just chose to put more quality in Oline instead of RB this time. Your a big boy, you'll get over it. You can come back on the bandwagon again when we start winning. See you then.

[24champ]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1210/ncf_i_clady_200.jpg

Look at Clady manhandling some future All-Pro from Weber State!!!!!



:P

[lex]

note in the original post I didn't mention anything about Hamiliton ( I have the same concern) or Harris.

I'll give you Nalen though, it sucks we let Meyers go. He wasn't a beast but he had a lot of experience in the interior and in center. And all we got in return was a 25 year old mormon with a jacked up knee. crap I'm starting to sound like you, nevermind.

Yeah, and I forgot to mention Harris' back. Along with not knowing how good he is, we dont know how bad his back is going to be. A bad back is not a good problem to have. Plus he fasts in the fall.

[Kaylore]

Look at Clady manhandling some future All-Pro from Weber State!!!!!



:P

Let it go: Running backs aren't worth it.

[SureShot]

Clady made this RB look pretty good.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y4s8vdzYwFU&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y4s8vdzYwFU&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Ill give you Kuper but no one knows if Harris can play when its live bullets. And there might actually be a year where Nalen's play severely drops off and Lichtensteiger's too inexperienced. And concussions are a bad problem to have...such is the case with Hamilton. Im glad you feel solid about the running game because I dont.

Yes, if everything goes wrong, we may be in some trouble..also, if Robertsons knee gives, Thomas doesnt improve, elvis breaks his ankle, ekuban blows his achilles, Champ gets a staph infection, DJ and Boss die in a car crash, Bly decides to give baseball a shot, Jay suddenly loses all his arm strength, and Henry gets caught for the ganj again....we might be in trouble too!

[lex]

Yes, if everything goes wrong, we may be in some trouble..also, if Robertsons knee gives, Thomas doesnt improve, elvis breaks his ankle, ekuban blows his achilles, Champ gets a staph infection, DJ and Boss die in a car crash, Bly decides to give baseball a shot, Jay suddenly loses all his arm strength, and Henry gets caught for the ganj again....we might be in trouble too!

No, knucklehead. Backs and concussions tend to recur and in the case of concussions, with greater frequency. And Nalens play is more likely to drop off than Champ is to get a staph infection...in fact, Id say its realistic chance his play will drop off.

[Punisher]

I'm not really happy on picking Clady but lets see what happends :)

[Taco John]

What youre missing is that Im not saying we should have taken a RB at the expense of Oline? Ive always said that we should upgrade both. Nice try.



Then what are you complaining about? Why do you refuse to recognize that the offensive line is a crucial aspect of our running game?

[Northman]

Yea, God forbid Mark Schlereth went to Idaho. I bet he manhandled some all-pro's there too. lmao

[lex]

Then what are you complaining about? Why do you refuse to recognize that the offensive line is a crucial aspect of our running game?

Because we havent done enough to improve the running game. We got a pass protectiing LT and a bargain basement running back.

[CBF1]

Clady was a great choice for the Broncos. The sky is the limit for him and I think he will start from day 1. There are only 2 players from the draft that I do not see being with the Broncos when the season starts.

[Florida_Bronco]

Lex, would you kindly take your rays of sunshine somewhere else? Clearly we are too depressed here for your warm, loving, optimistic posts.

[Taco John]

Because we havent done enough to improve the running game. We got a pass protectiing LT and a bargain basement running back.



How do you know we haven't done enough to improve the running game? For all you know, we just took a man out of the box and put him on his heels.

[Bronco Billy]

Our top rusher may have only averaged 60 yds/game, but as a team we averaged 111 yards per game against SD twice, Pitts, Jax, Indy, GB, and Tenn.

Luckily for us this isn't soccer, and we can bring players back into the game after taking them out. 111 yards per game isn't bad against these teams, especially considering the defense didn't give us much clock to work with and in three of the games we were down by 10 or more points at half. The average TOP for the opponent in these games was 33:51! Feel free to deduct the 10 seconds that Green Bay needed in OT to beat us.

Not to mention we were playing with a battered line.

[SureShot]

Am I wrong or did we not draft a LT, a C/G, and a fullback? How can this not benefit the running game?

[SureShot]

Our top rusher may have only averaged 60 yds/game, but as a team we averaged 111 yards per game against SD twice, Pitts, Jax, Indy, GB, and Tenn.

Luckily for us this isn't soccer, and we can bring players back into the game after taking them out. 111 yards per game isn't bad against these teams, especially considering the defense didn't give us much clock to work with and in three of the games we were down by 10 or more points at half. The average TOP for the opponent in these games was 33:51! Feel free to deduct the 10 seconds that Green Bay needed in OT to beat us.

Not to mention we were playing with a battered line.

Lex versus reality.....reality wins!!!!!

[Northman]

Am I wrong or did we not draft a LT, a C/G, and a fullback? How can this not benefit the running game?


Lex=OWNED

[lex]

How do you know we haven't done enough to improve the running game? For all you know, we just took a man out of the box and put him on his heels.

LOL, I had to read that last sentence twice. When I first read it I thought literally pull someone out of a box and put him in some heels...like a Ken Doll. Yeah, its getting late.
But regarding your first sentence, I can feel it in my bones. LOL

[Wes Mantooth]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1210/ncf_i_clady_200.jpg

You are my hero.

[BMF Bronco]

I think we improved our running game significantly with a true fullback and that monster named clady!

[lex]

I think we improved our running game significantly with a true fullback and that monster named clady!

Yeah but we're still relying on tha POS Henry and now we have another bargain basment running back thats causing euphoria but its faux improvment.

[NW Bolt Fan]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1210/ncf_i_clady_200.jpg

LOL HOLDING! He's way outside the numbers...:thanku:

[NW Bolt Fan]

And hands to the face!

Still think he's a good pick for you guys. And the center too.

[BMF Bronco]

Yeah but we're still relying on tha POS Henry and now we have another bargain basment running back thats causing euphoria but its faux improvment.

we also have Selvin young back there as well and with some experience, I think he now takes the #1 spot from babydaddy

[Bronco Billy]

LOL HOLDING! He's way outside the numbers...:thanku:

I don't see a hold. 8')

[Bronco Billy]

we also have Selvin young back there as well and with some experience, I think he now takes the #1 spot from babydaddy

Travis Henry did play like a beast when he was healthy last year, (which was basically the first half of the Bills' game.) It'll definitely be interesting to see how it shakes out.

[16slayer24]

seems that henry was leading the league in rushing last season then the legal problems and njuries hit I think he comes back this year and goes for 1500 and now we have a FB and a threat on returns me be happy

[Kaylore]

Yea, God forbid Mark Schlereth went to Idaho. I bet he manhandled some all-pro's there too. lmao

HOLY CRAP ANUBIS!!! Look at all these HOF tackles! They don't belong in the Hall though! OMG They played at small schools and are teh suxX0r!!!1!!!!!!!

Rayfield Wright - Fort Valley State
Gene Upshaw - Texas A&I
Bob St. Clair - San Francisco, Tulsa
Jackie Slater - Jackson State
Art Shell - Maryland St.-Eastern Shore
Larry Little -Bethune-Cookman
Jim Langer - South Dakota State
Forrest Gregg - Southern Methodis


And look at this list of pro bowlers!!! Look at the schools they played at!!!!! OMG they are tek sUk 2!!!!!!!!
Larry Allen - Sonoma State University
Brian Waters - North Texas
Mike Wahle - Navy
Matt Birk - Harvard
Willie Roaf - Louisiana Tech

ANub1$!!!! RYAN CLADY is teh sUk!!!!!!!

[NW Bolt Fan]

I don't see a hold. 8'):~ohyah!:

BMF, "babydaddy" Hilarious!

[Northman]

HOLY CRAP ANUBIS!!! Look at all these HOF tackles! They don't belong in the Hall though! OMG They played at small schools and are teh suxX0r!!!1!!!!!!!

Rayfield Wright - Fort Valley State
Gene Upshaw - Texas A&I
Bob St. Clair - San Francisco, Tulsa
Jackie Slater - Jackson State
Art Shell - Maryland St.-Eastern Shore
Larry Little -Bethune-Cookman
Jim Langer - South Dakota State
Forrest Gregg - Southern Methodis


And look at this list of pro bowlers!!! Look at the schools they played at!!!!! OMG they are tek sUk 2!!!!!!!!
Larry Allen - Sonoma State University
Brian Waters - North Texas
Mike Wahle - Navy
Matt Birk - Harvard
Willie Roaf - Louisiana Tech

ANub1$!!!! RYAN CLADY is teh sUk!!!!!!!


Yep. Hilarious! LOL

[BMF Bronco]

he wasn't a lineman but didn't we have a "decent" player come from Savannah state? Ü

[SureShot]

HOLY CRAP ANUBIS!!! Look at all these HOF tackles! They don't belong in the Hall though! OMG They played at small schools and are teh suxX0r!!!1!!!!!!!

Rayfield Wright - Fort Valley State
Gene Upshaw - Texas A&I
Bob St. Clair - San Francisco, Tulsa
Jackie Slater - Jackson State
Art Shell - Maryland St.-Eastern Shore
Larry Little -Bethune-Cookman
Jim Langer - South Dakota State
Forrest Gregg - Southern Methodis


And look at this list of pro bowlers!!! Look at the schools they played at!!!!! OMG they are tek sUk 2!!!!!!!!
Larry Allen - Sonoma State University
Brian Waters - North Texas
Mike Wahle - Navy
Matt Birk - Harvard
Willie Roaf - Louisiana Tech

ANub1$!!!! RYAN CLADY is teh sUk!!!!!!!


So you are saying those guys had great careers without going to a large school?

**** it we should have drafted Mendenhall! He's a top 10 pick!

[Wes Mantooth]

I beleive Bobby Turner has a say in who gets drafted at RB. Why of all positions are we questioning who is selected at this spot?

[SureShot]

I beleive Bobby Turner has a say in who gets drafted at RB. Why of all positions are we questioning who is selected at this spot?

But but but we never get any good RBs on the second day! Only mediocre RBs! Don't you remember when we drafted TD in the 1st round?

[Atlas]

playoff teams last year. And if you throw out Indy, its 44.13. Who here is looking forward to more of the same in 2008? Oh well, at least Jay will have 12 WRs to throw to. So do you think we did enough to improve our running game? Do you think we did anything to improve our running game?

Jesus Christ reading your posts makes my azzhole hurt.


Denver was 3rd in the NFL with an average of 4.6 yards per carry!!! 3RD!!!!! Denver as a team rushed for 1,957 yards!!!

Henry was leading the NFL in rushing after 4 weeks before his injury. Damn, Lex you're such a troll.

[REB]

Some people (usually those who don't know the game as well as they think) are never happy unless their team drafts a RB/QB/WR in the 1st rd. They want that "star" pick and don't seem to realize the game starts up front on the line. Both sides of the LOS. We have our QB. We have a stable of RB's and we should be fine at WR. Addressing the line was the smart way to go.

[Blueflame]

Jesus Christ reading your posts makes my azzhole hurt.


Denver was 3rd in the NFL with an average of 4.6 yards per carry!!! 3RD!!!!! Denver as a team rushed for 1,957 yards!!!

Henry was leading the NFL in rushing after 4 weeks before his injury. Damn, Lex you're such a troll.

...and this with two starters out on the O-line for a significant portion of the season....

I'm delighted that Clady was there at #12... and quite pleased that we drafted another O-lineman as well. Protect the QB and opposing teams won't dare put 8 in the box... this helps the running game.

[Bronco Billy]

I was a big Mendenhall homer before the draft. I think he'll still be good, but I'm very glad Clady was there at #12.

[Atlas]

I was a big Mendenhall homer before the draft. I think he'll still be good, but I'm very glad Clady was there at #12.

I would still rather have Mendenhall, but I have no doubts Clady will play for 10 years in Denver.

[Hulamau]

playoff teams last year. And if you throw out Indy, its 44.13. Who here is looking forward to more of the same in 2008? Oh well, at least Jay will have 12 WRs to throw to. So do you think we did enough to improve our running game? Do you think we did anything to improve our running game?

You seem confused looking in a myopic rear view mirror Lex. Our running game was limited last year more by the porous defense letting teams control the clock and jump out to big leads, as well as the decimation of our Oline ( and losing Nails and Hamilton the whole year and critically Graham the last 5 games). Not to mention the learn ing curve of the first year starters on the line like Kuper and Pears.

Henry was banged up too as well as having his ganja issue hanging over everyones head most of the season. with a little more luck there he should be more productive this year and may get bumped by mid season by Torain anyway!

We have already made a quantum leap in our Oline and our defense ... on the D side I don't see anymore 44-3 games at all ( Powell too is going to be a very solid run stuffer and backup for now for Dwayne R. & Thomas in the rotation).

The oline with Clady, Kuper, Nails, Hamilton, Harris and (and yes Harris can play, he was very good at ND at LT .. RT should work fine for him after a year learning under his belt), is solid now.

With Torain as a solid option now too, possibly even a true steal .... assuming Shanny and the medical staff is right and his toe is 100% by June, we will be fine at RB. Torain has the potential to be a real score if he stays healthy.

Anyway, you seem to be stuck looking at things in a static view of the past and don't seem to be able to adapt to the changes that are actually happening to this team. Things aren't nearly so bleak as you paint them Lex.

Go out and pat a puppy and smell a few roses or something. Get some fresh air ... :sunshine:

[eddie mac]

To quote the undisputed King of collegiate assessment.

"I think this is a great pick for Denver and in 5 years time we'll look back at this draft and say Clady was the best offensive lineman to come out of it"

[DTBLAS]

Why is it that everyone seems to think Clady is a horrible run blocker? All I have heard is that he is not quite as good at it as pass blocking. Considering he was probably the best pass blocker in the draft that doesn't sound that bad.

[TheReverend]

Recieving threats have a tendency to open the running game some...

[Atlas]

Why is it that everyone seems to think Clady is a horrible run blocker? All I have heard is that he is not quite as good at it as pass blocking. Considering he was probably the best pass blocker in the draft that doesn't sound that bad.

If Clady was a horrible run blocker there is no way he would be the 2nd OT off the board.

[DarkHorse]

thirdly, you forget that our O-line is going to be massively, massively improved next year with Clady and Nalen back, not to mention Kuper's maturation.


This is speculation and hope, at best.

[BoiseBluTurf]

Clady made this RB look pretty good.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y4s8vdzYwFU&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y4s8vdzYwFU&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

I can never see that enough! Just watched it three times in a row and every time I was grinning like a kid on christmas morning! Sad... isn't it!



That is all,


Michael

[dbfan4life]

I can never see that enough! Just watched it three times in a row and every time I was grinning like a kid on christmas morning! Sad... isn't it!



That is all,


Michael

Homer! Nnyah!

[OABB]

when we passed on mendenhall, I screeched like a little girl in the chatroom. I think I even mentioned killing myself at one point.

but, the dust has settled, and all I have to say is, thank god niether lex or myself work for the denver broncos. Clady is the right pick every single time.

[lex]

when we passed on mendenhall, I screeched like a little girl in the chatroom. I think I even mentioned killing myself at one point.

but, the dust has settled, and all I have to say is, thank god niether lex or myself work for the denver broncos. Clady is the right pick every single time.

Who said this was about Clady?

[kamakazi_kal]

playoff teams last year. And if you throw out Indy, its 44.13. Who here is looking forward to more of the same in 2008? Oh well, at least Jay will have 12 WRs to throw to. So do you think we did enough to improve our running game? Do you think we did anything to improve our running game?

I'm thinking you didn't get enough hugs as a child.

[Taco John]

You're fuzzy on whether you threatened suicide?

[DenverBrit]

LOL HOLDING! He's way outside the numbers...:thanku:

It wouldn't be outside the numbers if that material didn't stretch so easily. Damn Spandex! Ha!

[lex]

You're fuzzy on whether you threatened suicide?



Who threatened suicide?

[DHallblows]

What youre missing is that Im not saying we should have taken a RB at the expense of Oline? Ive always said that we should upgrade both. Nice try.

What YOU'RE missing is that we don't need to upgrade at RB. Our Oline is the first priority. Nice try.

[loborugger]

The stats speak for themselves. Sorry Im not enraptured by the euphoria like the rest of you but those are glaring numbers that Ive brought to you. You should be thanking me for bringing them to you.

Are you funnin us, Bob?

Seriously, thou, do you hang out at the Planet and post under the name GoChiefs? Cuz, that definitely sounds like one of his posts.

Whatever you do, dont predict that we are going to have a great defense this year.

[lex]

What YOU'RE missing is that we don't need to upgrade at RB. Our Oline is the first priority. Nice try.

Sure we do. This nonsense about not needing a good running back is just a vehicle that serves Shanahans ego...because when we get by with bargain basement running backs, people talk about how smart Shanahan is. The media spoon feeds people this all the time. But tell me, why is it when it comes to running the ball in Denver its all about the system and the running back doesnt matter but when it comes to QB in the WCO offense, Joe Montana is the greatest QB of all time and not a product of the system? Bunk. The running back matters.

[BoiseBluTurf]

Homer! Nnyah!

And proud of it!

[azbroncfan]

Pass protection for Jay.

So OT's only are good at pass protection? Or are you saying OL are either pass protectors or run blockers but can't be both?

[snowspot66]

It's better to have a great LT now than later. LT's last longer. What good is an all pro RB with a ****ty line. We'll just waste a couple years of his career trying to get somebody for him to run behind. A topflight RB in the modern game is a luxury pick. You need a good QB and a good line. You pick them whenever and wherever you can. Once you have them you get your sexy toys. A RB in the modern NFL can be expected to have 5 or 6 years TOPS of high quality pro bowl play while a LT can have up to 12 to 14 years of superb play why would we develop the RB first? The LT will take longer to develop and will last longer. Better to get the OL in place first and then get the RB.

I just don't understand why this is so difficult to grasp.

[DenverBrit]

Sure we do. This nonsense about not needing a good running back is just a vehicle that serves Shanahans ego...because when we get by with bargain basement running backs, people talk about how smart Shanahan is. The media spoon feeds people this all the time. But tell me, why is it when it comes to running the ball in Denver its all about the system and the running back doesnt matter but when it comes to QB in the WCO offense, Joe Montana is the greatest QB of all time and not a product of the system? Bunk. The running back matters.

That's Bobby Turner, and no one finds more talent in later rounds than he does. What has that to do with 'serving Shanny's ego'? It's just intelligent drafting and scheming. Get the O line right, everyone on the field blocking and Denver runs well against anyone. 1st round RB picks are very nice, except they are often over valued and have a very short shelf life. Fix the O line, and late round picks are a much better value and serve Denver well.
Go find Wolfbreath and Telluride, they'll happily cry and whine in the corner with you. :wave:

[OABB]

Who said this was about Clady?

I am guessing your problem is with the first pick, no? we drafted a rb, and a fb who can run, fa pick-up two years ago....so I'm guessing you wanted mendenhall, which using my logical analysis, means this has a lot to do with clady..

[OABB]

You're fuzzy on whether you threatened suicide?

yes, I forgot to mention that I was also really really drunk...

and who hasn't threatened suicide drunk before?

[Bronco Jamus]

An NFL running back has an average career of 4-5 seasons. Taking them early and paying them a bunch of money isn't the smartest thing to do. Can it work out? Absolutely. The odds however are not in your favor.

[theAPAOps5]

What I find funny is that all offseason after Lepsis retired people wanted a LT were clamoring for it. Lex might not have but I count him in the Madden generation anyways. Then all of a sudden people start throwing around names like Mendenhall and Stewart and people just jump on board.

I admit I was one saying if Denver does draft Stewart I wouldn't be mad and even thought it might be a good idea. But the minute we drafted Clady the pick made sense. He is going to start at LT and he is going to have the best blocking TE as his training wheel. As long as he continues to grow as a player I am excited.

[Northman]

What I find funny is that all offseason after Lepsis retired people wanted a LT were clamoring for it. Lex might not have but I count him in the Madden generation anyways. Then all of a sudden people start throwing around names like Mendenhall and Stewart and people just jump on board.

I admit I was one saying if Denver does draft Stewart I wouldn't be mad and even thought it might be a good idea. But the minute we drafted Clady the pick made sense. He is going to start at LT and he is going to have the best blocking TE as his training wheel. As long as he continues to grow as a player I am excited.


REP

Yea, thats exactly how this crap goes down. A few months ago Lex was clamoring on about how we should do anything to land McFadden but when it became obvious that it wasnt going to happen that way he folded up his tent. Then, when Mendenhall started climbing up the draft boards he again started his campaign to draft a running back and a lot of people bought into it. I never did. Like you, if we had drafted Stewart or Mendenhall i wouldnt have been heartbroken but our draft pretty much went down the way i thought it would with us taking OT first and a RB later on. It surprised me a little bit in the middle of the draft but i think a lot of that had to do with Robertson coming on board but i think we did everything right draft wise to help improve this team. If somehow Henry cant stay healthy or stay out of trouble off the field than it would be great to consider a Rb in the first round the next couple of years. But for now, fix the trenches with quality lineman and then go from there.

[chrisp]

If the running game struggles next season, we may well still be able to get a quality back wherever we're picking in the first round next year. However, a true franchise LT is a rare thing, so we had to take the chance when it came to us.

Ok, Clady could turn out to be a bust, but at this point so could Meadenhall, Stewart, or any other back. Players of the quality of Clady don't drop much further than #12, and unless you hadn't noticed the Denver Broncos organisation does NOT expect to be drafting this high again for quite some time......

Its reassuring that right now Lex seems to be the only one spouting this nonsense.....

[lex]

If the running game struggles next season, we may well still be able to get a quality back wherever we're picking in the first round next year. However, a true franchise LT is a rare thing, so we had to take the chance when it came to us.

Ok, Clady could turn out to be a bust, but at this point so could Meadenhall, Stewart, or any other back. Players of the quality of Clady don't drop much further than #12, and unless you hadn't noticed the Denver Broncos organisation does NOT expect to be drafting this high again for quite some time......

Its reassuring that right now Lex seems to be the only one spouting this nonsense.....

Its funny you speak of nonsense. Show me where Ive objected to taking a tackle at 12 since the daft? You dont even know what youre responding to. Nice try. Now go to the back of the line.

[lex]

What I find funny is that all offseason after Lepsis retired people wanted a LT were clamoring for it. Lex might not have but I count him in the Madden generation anyways. Then all of a sudden people start throwing around names like Mendenhall and Stewart and people just jump on board.

I admit I was one saying if Denver does draft Stewart I wouldn't be mad and even thought it might be a good idea. But the minute we drafted Clady the pick made sense. He is going to start at LT and he is going to have the best blocking TE as his training wheel. As long as he continues to grow as a player I am excited.

Yeah, ok. This was the first year in several where Ive been an advocate of taking a RB in the first couple of rounds.

Last year, I actually kind of wanted Kalil. I wanted Ed Reed over Lelie. But suddenly one year I advocate getting a RB and Im acting like Im playing Madden? LOL. Youre funny.

[OABB]

Yeah, ok. This was the first year in several where Ive been an advocate of taking a RB in the first couple of rounds.

Last year, I actually kind of wanted Kalil. I wanted Ed Reed over Lelie. But suddenly one year I advocate getting a RB and Im acting like Im playing Madden? LOL. Youre funny.

ed reed is the absolute madden pick... bad example.

and also....I believe you are wanted in another thread.

[lex]

ed reed is the absolute madden pick... bad example.

and also....I believe you are wanted in another thread.

How is a safety more Madden than a WR?

What thread?

[OABB]

How is a safety more Madden than a WR?

What thread?

kaylore's what would you have done differently thread....

also, safety over wr is not madden, but ed reed himself was. he has problems playing in the scheme and has been threatened that he will be benched if he doesn't shape up.

on paper he is a beast, but not nearly as good as some would suggest...which I interpret as maddenesque....

[socalorado]

REP

Yea, thats exactly how this crap goes down. A few months ago Lex was clamoring on about how we should do anything to land McFadden but when it became obvious that it wasnt going to happen that way he folded up his tent. Then, when Mendenhall started climbing up the draft boards he again started his campaign to draft a running back and a lot of people bought into it. I never did. Like you, if we had drafted Stewart or Mendenhall i wouldnt have been heartbroken but our draft pretty much went down the way i thought it would with us taking OT first and a RB later on. It surprised me a little bit in the middle of the draft but i think a lot of that had to do with Robertson coming on board but i think we did everything right draft wise to help improve this team. If somehow Henry cant stay healthy or stay out of trouble off the field than it would be great to consider a Rb in the first round the next couple of years. But for now, fix the trenches with quality lineman and then go from there.

Yeah. I remember him wanting McFadden, what a clown!!!
I think he had this crazy, "out of this world madden trade" with Champ Bailey to DAL for 2 1st rounders.
Man, that guys got alot of BALLS coming back around here and talking smack, and, and..............

[Northman]

Yeah. I remember him wanting McFadden, what a clown!!!
I think he had this crazy, "out of this world madden trade" with Champ Bailey to DAL for 2 1st rounders.
Man, that guys got alot of BALLS coming back around here and talking smack, and, and..............

Yea, i happen to recall that you were on his short bus too. :P

[socalorado]

Yea, i happen to recall that you were on his short bus too. :P

I'm glad you got the sarcasm!
Hey i wanted a RB too! Sure Mendenhall would have been gravy, but thats not what the FO thought was the most important player on their board, so who am i to go ballistic and question them?
Clady will be a mainstay for 10 years and Cutler now has time to throw rockets to all those WRs! Cool!
Torian was a sweet pick and DEN has another Mike Anderson clone. Again, Cool!
O-line was addressed as was Safety and FB. Check.
KR- Royal. Check.
I like the physical aspect of all Defensive players too. BIG guys who just flat out HIT and make plays.
DEN is going to have to face LT, LJ, and McFadden twice a year now, so getting big hitters to intimidate and dish out "snot bubblers" is what this team needed!
Even Hillis and Lictensteiger ( how do you spell it?) are mean, tough guys.

[Northman]

I'm glad you got the sarcasm!
Hey i wanted a RB too! Sure Mendenhall would have been gravy, but thats not what the FO thought was the most important player on their board, so who am i to go ballistic and question them?
Clady will be a mainstay for 10 years and Cutler now has time to throw rockets to all those WRs! Cool!
Torian was a sweet pick and DEN has another Mike Anderson clone. Again, Cool!
O-line was addressed as was Safety and FB. Check.
KR- Royal. Check.
I like the physical aspect of all Defensive players too. BIG guys who just flat out HIT and make plays.
DEN is going to have to face LT, LJ, and McFadden twice a year now, so getting big hitters to intimidate and dish out "snot bubblers" is what this team needed!
Even Hillis and Lictensteiger ( how do you spell it?) are mean, tough guys.


And thats why i like you and can actually discuss things with you. Your open minded about everything football related. Lex on the other hand....

[brncs_fan]

I always thought that the Mendenhall pick at 12 was bologna. I live in Illinois and saw this kid play a lot and knew what he could be and still thought we should have went Claddy or Williams at #12.

Lex, you say that you never advocated NOT taking a tackle at 12, but you come in here and give us some skewed stats and start 2 threads about how we should have taken Mendenhall at 12 because our ground game is so bad. Yet even when you are proven wrong you still rail on.

I am one for persistence but maybe you should let this one go.

[SureShot]

Lex on the other hand....

....is a TROLL!

[bpc]

Anybody hoping for a quality HB over a quality LT if both were available at 12, just doesn't understand football. It's sounding more and more like that is the case here.

You invest your future in a QB, you better bust your ass to put a line in front of him especially when we are one of the best running offenses in the NFL despite all else.

Opening up our passing game is only going to make our running game more potent.

[Finger Roll]

running back is the most over raded poistion in all of sports. It's all about the offensive line. I would of been pissed if they spent a high pick on a freaking running back. There are only 2 running backs in the nfl that are difference makers. Tomlinson and Peterson. Everybody else is blah

[lex]

I always thought that the Mendenhall pick at 12 was bologna. I live in Illinois and saw this kid play a lot and knew what he could be and still thought we should have went Claddy or Williams at #12.

Lex, you say that you never advocated NOT taking a tackle at 12, but you come in here and give us some skewed stats and start 2 threads about how we should have taken Mendenhall at 12 because our ground game is so bad. Yet even when you are proven wrong you still rail on.

I am one for persistence but maybe you should let this one go.

I was more for taking a running back at 12. Its true. But I was never really against taking a tackle at 12. Ive said numerous times that RB and OT is where the value is at 12. What I think gets distorted is that through the various discussions where we were talking about Mendenhall, I said justification existed for taking Mendenhall at 12 and OT later. One of the reasons being that with one pick, you can have a great RB but you cant have a great OLine with one pick. Additionally, when you look at the agility stats, Kuper looked very strong in that regard. But whatever. I think out of the discussion of taking a RB at 12, saying its justified is somehow interpreted as being against taking a tackle by some. Also consider there has been uncertainty about what the plans have been with Harris and Kuper...such uncertainty makes you entertain RB as a possibility.

But all along, I have been for improving the running game both at running back and on the offensive line, whether thats RB at 12 and OL later, or OL at 12 and RB at 42....but not in the 5th. Ive also said numerous times that a RB in the mid rounds is half pregnant. That if you think we can get away with anyone, and therefore not we should not draft a running back high, that you should draft one in the 7th or not at all. But Im of the school of thought that if any chump can run for 1000 yards, imagine what an elite RB can do and why not maximize a strength instead of minimizing it, which we are doing with these bargain basement running backs.

I used to think Shanahan was leveraging his acumen on offense by selling off parts of our offense to help the defense. But now I think he's just feeding his ego by taking these mid round guys because he knows they can get 1000 yards and if they do gain 1000 yards, people will talk about how smart he is. And after an embattled 7-9 season, I think he wants people to think he's smart again.

[Drek]

Lex, I respect your takes on football. You actually bring some good insight and make some good arguments 99% of the time.

But this is that 1% where you were too personally vested in several players that we didn't get and its keeping you from seeing the forest through the trees.

Our running problems were caused much more by the loss of Hamilton and Nalen, two young and untested players steping in there, an RT who wasn't very good and only had 9 games of experience (at LT), an RG new to our system, and an LT who didn't come back well from an significant injury.

It was basically the worst possible scenario an OL can face short of all five starters dieing in a plane crash.

Even with the excessive line turmoil we had Henry was still the leading rushing after our fourth game last year.

Running the ball is built first and foremost on consistency and continuity. Especially in the ZBS. Each OL knowing how his neighbor will react and the RB knowing how the OLs will set him up. Our OL wasn't able to have any of that last season. It was the biggest problem with our running game, not the talent we had on the field.

Now I agree fully that we could use to further address RB. I don't think we can trust Henry to be on the field for all of '08, let alone even be around in '09 or beyond. I don't think Young and Hall are capable of 25+ carries a game week after week combined, let alone together.

However, I think you're underselling on Torian. He isn't a stud like Mendenhall or Stewart could've been here. I think either one of them could've been dominant here. But Torian profiles very much like a former Broncos' RB, Mike Anderson. In his rookie season he put up 1500 yards and 15 touchdowns, winning offensive ROY. I don't think he'll even get the chance to do that, but he's a solid power back which was a need for us and we've now addressed it.

With Torian and Young on the roster we can see what we have and be prepared to go into next year's draft with a power and speed option already on the roster. So if we see a speedy back a la Portis that we want to add we can and still have a second back to offset with him. If we see a power back we like again, we have a speedster to offset him with. I don't think either one will be a stud, but it sets us up well.

I'd feel differently if we had our 3rd round pick, but I really like our 2nd rounder and we hit the early part of a big WR run there, so it was good value, and by the 4th round there wasn't good RB value left on the board, so taking someone then would have been an overpick (and probably would've been Ryan Torian).

If we could've had our 3rd rounder and a guy like Charles was there (he actually was selected with our 3rd, FYI) and we passed on him to take Torian later on I'd be more upset, but there just wasn't good RB value at any of our picks throughout the draft, and we needed too much depth to go trading half our second day to get back in the 3rd.

[lex]

Lex, I respect your takes on football. You actually bring some good insight and make some good arguments 99% of the time.

But this is that 1% where you were too personally vested in several players that we didn't get and its keeping you from seeing the forest through the trees.

Our running problems were caused much more by the loss of Hamilton and Nalen, two young and untested players steping in there, an RT who wasn't very good and only had 9 games of experience (at LT), an RG new to our system, and an LT who didn't come back well from an significant injury.

It was basically the worst possible scenario an OL can face short of all five starters dieing in a plane crash.

Even with the excessive line turmoil we had Henry was still the leading rushing after our fourth game last year.

Running the ball is built first and foremost on consistency and continuity. Especially in the ZBS. Each OL knowing how his neighbor will react and the RB knowing how the OLs will set him up. Our OL wasn't able to have any of that last season. It was the biggest problem with our running game, not the talent we had on the field.

Now I agree fully that we could use to further address RB. I don't think we can trust Henry to be on the field for all of '08, let alone even be around in '09 or beyond. I don't think Young and Hall are capable of 25+ carries a game week after week combined, let alone together.

However, I think you're underselling on Torian. He isn't a stud like Mendenhall or Stewart could've been here. I think either one of them could've been dominant here. But Torian profiles very much like a former Broncos' RB, Mike Anderson. In his rookie season he put up 1500 yards and 15 touchdowns, winning offensive ROY. I don't think he'll even get the chance to do that, but he's a solid power back which was a need for us and we've now addressed it.

With Torian and Young on the roster we can see what we have and be prepared to go into next year's draft with a power and speed option already on the roster. So if we see a speedy back a la Portis that we want to add we can and still have a second back to offset with him. If we see a power back we like again, we have a speedster to offset him with. I don't think either one will be a stud, but it sets us up well.

I'd feel differently if we had our 3rd round pick, but I really like our 2nd rounder and we hit the early part of a big WR run there, so it was good value, and by the 4th round there wasn't good RB value left on the board, so taking someone then would have been an overpick (and probably would've been Ryan Torian).

If we could've had our 3rd rounder and a guy like Charles was there (he actually was selected with our 3rd, FYI) and we passed on him to take Torian later on I'd be more upset, but there just wasn't good RB value at any of our picks throughout the draft, and we needed too much depth to go trading half our second day to get back in the 3rd.

Shanahans ego got in the way of doing the right thing. He was so fixated on wasting that pick on Walker and wanted to make that right, that he took Royal when he should have taken a running back. The reason he didnt take the running back is because of his Ahab like quest to find a Devin Hester and also because it feeds his ego to take bargain basement running backs like Torain because if they get 1000 yards, people talk about how smart he is. Whats bad is that the media has bought into the idea that who plays running back in Denver is irrelevant. And this feeds Shanahans ego because its a reflection on him...on his scheme. And after an embattled 7-9 season he's going to go back to making a bargain basement RB a 1000 yard rusher just so people will think he's smart. Like I said, I used to think he was leveraging his acumen on offense to help the defense (by trading our running backs for defensive players every 2 years since we were incapable of drafting good defensive players) but now I realize, its all about feeding his ego. His ego is holding us back.

[Eldorado]

Shanahans ego got in the way of doing the right thing. He was so fixated on wasting that pick on Walker and wanted to make that right, that he took Royal when he should have taken a running back. The reason he didnt take the running back is because of his Ahab like quest to find a Devin Hester and also because it feeds his ego to take bargain basement running backs like Torain because if they get 1000 yards, people talk about how smart he is. Whats bad is that the media has bought into the idea that who plays running back in Denver is irrelevant. And this feeds Shanahans ego because its a reflection on him...on his scheme. And after an embattled 7-9 season he's going to go back to making a bargain basement RB a 1000 yard rusher just so people will think he's smart. Like I said, I used to think he was leveraging his acumen on offense to help the defense (by trading our running backs for defensive players every 2 years since we were incapable of drafting good defensive players) but now I realize, its all about feeding his ego. His ego is holding us back.

whoa ... dude ... that's ... that's just awesome. I have no other word for it. I mean, you know......like in a bad way, of course. uuhhmm, I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, but...................Ted?!?!? Is that you??

[HEAV]

Some people need to put down the video game controller and look at how foot is played.

All the fan boy's on here wanted Menanhall. While others saw the gapping need at O-line that was needed!

Get over it. Become Raider fan and have fun watching your running back and multi-million dollar QB get there ass handed to them on a weekly basis.

Broncos needed a franchise LT more than they needed another running back.

There is a plus fan boy's! Shaun Alexander is still out there...


I wanted Clady as the number one and was so happy to hear his name called! He's going to 10+ year left tackle for this team.

[HEAV]

Lex's meltdown is nearing telluride status.

[theAPAOps5]

Lex actually does have some good takes on here. I call him Madden because of that trade proposal not because he wanted a RB.

Look after McFadden went there was no other RB worth the 12th we would have spent on him. Some would say fine then we should have traded down and got him then.

here is the deal though. Clady has amazing feet, reach, and size. Sure he has stuff to work on but who doesn't coming out of college. He was top 10 material in my mind and many draft gurus as well. So getting him at 12 is great value and not worth trading down at that point.

You have to go with what the draft gives you. Besides Long I think Clady was the next best option. Yeah whats his name from Vanderbilt was there but I rate Clady above him. But the draft set up with a D run and pushed Clady down. To skip Clady or another LT would have set this team back years. Still might if he doesn't pan out. But in the long run Mendenhall or Stewart would not have been the best pick for the long haul.

[Odysseus]

Anybody hoping for a quality HB over a quality LT if both were available at 12, just doesn't understand football. It's sounding more and more like that is the case here.

You invest your future in a QB, you better bust your ass to put a line in front of him especially when we are one of the best running offenses in the NFL despite all else.

Opening up our passing game is only going to make our running game more potent.

If you don't protect the franchise there won't be a franchise.

This draft was about creating a 30 point offense that controls the tempo of the game. We built it with solid citizens.

Broncos have some pretty strong running backs. We don't need a marquee running back.

Royal was a reach because we really needed to level the playing field on special teams and having a guy who like Dwill is actually a lot better than fans understand is really smart. The fans were livid with the Dwill pick.

The fans were wrong.

[theAPAOps5]

Royal was a reach because we really needed to level the playing field on special teams and having a guy who like Dwill is actually a lot better than fans understand is really smart. The fans were livid with the Dwill pick.

The fans were wrong.

Actually I now think Royal wasn't a reach at 42. Mediator said he was rated as a high 2nd rounder. But I don't think Shanny drafted him for just KR/PR. The dude might be small but he is one strong mofo. They drafted him for his ability to get off the line and blow down field.

Mediator first pointed that out then Armstrong pointed that out today on the Fan. Ashley Lelie was fast and a deep threat but his problem was he wasn't strong enough to get off the line and down field in time to be an option. Plummer would have to to either take a sack or just lob it up hoping he could get down there. Sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't.

Then look at last year. Many times the deep pass just didn't work and while I haven't looked at the replay of the games I bet it was because it took too long for a WR to get down field. Sure our line didn't do its best either. A lot of the long passing plays were Marshall breaking tackles and racking up the YAC. My hopes are that Royal finally provides that big deep threat. The more people talk about him and the more I read I think we got a diamond in the rough.

[Drek]

Shanahans ego got in the way of doing the right thing. He was so fixated on wasting that pick on Walker and wanted to make that right, that he took Royal when he should have taken a running back. The reason he didnt take the running back is because of his Ahab like quest to find a Devin Hester and also because it feeds his ego to take bargain basement running backs like Torain because if they get 1000 yards, people talk about how smart he is. Whats bad is that the media has bought into the idea that who plays running back in Denver is irrelevant. And this feeds Shanahans ego because its a reflection on him...on his scheme. And after an embattled 7-9 season he's going to go back to making a bargain basement RB a 1000 yard rusher just so people will think he's smart. Like I said, I used to think he was leveraging his acumen on offense to help the defense (by trading our running backs for defensive players every 2 years since we were incapable of drafting good defensive players) but now I realize, its all about feeding his ego. His ego is holding us back.

If it was Shanahan's ego he wouldn't have brought in Henry, or drafted Portis or Bell for that matter. Or been looking so hard at Stewart this year.

I think its clear he wants a legit feature back, but he's not going to pick a tulip and tell himself its a rose. The RBs available at #42 were all reaches. Johnson, Jones, McFadden, Mendenhall, and Stewart were all gone. It was really too early to take anyone else.

At the same time we have a huge need at returner and in a year or two will have that same big need at slot WR, giving Jay long term comfort in knowing he'll have a guy who can stretch the field. In the last few days leading up to the draft Royal was obviously a 2nd round guy. Pro Football Weekly, who sources employed NFL scouts, had him ranked as such. Med, our own board member who has legitimate sources called us taking him in the second. Mike Mayock, one of the best draft analysts out there really liked the pick. He wasn't a reach. The fact that we got him after St. Louis took Donnie Avery, a similar but entirely inferior player, a few picks earlier just proves his value. Slot WR/KR/PR carried abnormal value in this draft class because there were a handful of very good ones and now everyone wants one to copy Wes Welker, Steve Smith, etc..

The only thing I can really see doing differently would be taking Tashard Choice over Jack Williams and hoping Williams made it to our 5th round selection. But then Turner apparently liked Torain. I don't particularly question his RB choices since he hasn't missed very often and when he has its typically not related to the guy's ability to actually play but more his commitment and willingness to work.

Look at it this way, we improved a lot of need areas in this class. There is a good chance we'll be in position to spend a high pick on RB next year or the year after, whenever we see a guy we like. Maybe we'll pick up Chris Wells from Ohio State, he'd be as much a stud as Mendenhall or Stewart.

[lex]

If it was Shanahan's ego he wouldn't have brought in Henry, or drafted Portis or Bell for that matter. Or been looking so hard at Stewart this year.

I think its clear he wants a legit feature back, but he's not going to pick a tulip and tell himself its a rose. The RBs available at #42 were all reaches. Johnson, Jones, McFadden, Mendenhall, and Stewart were all gone. It was really too early to take anyone else.

At the same time we have a huge need at returner and in a year or two will have that same big need at slot WR, giving Jay long term comfort in knowing he'll have a guy who can stretch the field. In the last few days leading up to the draft Royal was obviously a 2nd round guy. Pro Football Weekly, who sources employed NFL scouts, had him ranked as such. Med, our own board member who has legitimate sources called us taking him in the second. Mike Mayock, one of the best draft analysts out there really liked the pick. He wasn't a reach. The fact that we got him after St. Louis took Donnie Avery, a similar but entirely inferior player, a few picks earlier just proves his value. Slot WR/KR/PR carried abnormal value in this draft class because there were a handful of very good ones and now everyone wants one to copy Wes Welker, Steve Smith, etc..

The only thing I can really see doing differently would be taking Tashard Choice over Jack Williams and hoping Williams made it to our 5th round selection. But then Turner apparently liked Torain. I don't particularly question his RB choices since he hasn't missed very often and when he has its typically not related to the guy's ability to actually play but more his commitment and willingness to work.

Look at it this way, we improved a lot of need areas in this class. There is a good chance we'll be in position to spend a high pick on RB next year or the year after, whenever we see a guy we like. Maybe we'll pick up Chris Wells from Ohio State, he'd be as much a stud as Mendenhall or Stewart.

Bleh, youre never going to sell me that a returner is a priority over a running back. Like I said, the reason we made that pick is an Ahab-like obsession from two years ago. I really like Royal as a player, which is why I gave the pick a B but I couldnt give it an A because as priorities go, it should have been a running back.

And we really need to pin down whether its the system or an eye for talent. To this point, Id have to say the system based on what guys do when they leave Denver in trades that occur because we cant draft or even sign free adequate free agents on defense.

And regarding next year, I really doubt the running back class next year is on par with what it is this year. On the other hand, you have guys like Jacoby Ford, who can return kicks that should be coming out next year. Its kind of dumb to make a returner a bigger priority than a running back. But it shouldnt be surprising since we're not really known for shrewed drafting. And besides, Shanahan will probably salvage his the reputation he's staked to Henry and Torain. Chances are he'll probably try to use Henry like disposable razors next year and the year after he'll be in love with Torain. Its disgusting really. Im just waiting until all this plays out and we get some new people in there but in the meantime it sucks watching us get posterized repeatedly by RBs like Tomlinson, Johnson, and now McFadden and we have bargain basement scrubs that were masterminded to stroke our coaches ego.

[theAPAOps5]

Its official Lex is and idiot. I would rather read stuff from Telluride and Wolf. Man this guy knows nothing about football.

[lex]

Its official Lex is and idiot. I would rather read stuff from Telluride and Wolf. Man this guy knows nothing about football.

Youre so full of ****. You accessed this thread precisely to see what I had posted. Busted.

[theAPAOps5]

Youre so full of ****. You accessed this thread precisely to see what I had posted. Busted.

Nope I accessed this thread to call you what you are and idiot troll. One who knows nothing of football and thinks a team should be run by a video game. One of the worst members to join recently I might add. A person who makes me appreciate Bob of all people.

[SureShot]

Youre so full of ****. You accessed this thread precisely to see what I had posted. Busted.

ApaOps busted for reading and responding to threads on a message board! Dude you gotta learn to cover your tracks.Uhh

[theAPAOps5]

ApaOps busted for reading and responding to threads on a message board! Dude you gotta learn to cover your tracks.Uhh

No, no he caught me red handed. I have been following this thread and since I posted in it I have set it to subscribed. I am so ashamed I am following around threads I post in.

[lex]

Nope I accessed this thread to call you what you are and idiot troll. One who knows nothing of football and thinks a team should be run by a video game. One of the worst members to join recently I might add. A person who makes me appreciate Bob of all people.


The fact remains that you claimed not to be interested in reading anything from me once you saw I was the one to most recently post in here. Besides, Drek and I were having a discussion. If theres anyone trolling its you. Youve provided nothing of substance, youve backed up nothing, nor can you. Have fun on ignore.

[SureShot]

The fact remains that you claimed not to be interested in reading anything from me once you saw I was the one to most recently post in here. Besides, Drek and I were having a discussion. If theres anyone trolling its you. Youve provided nothing of substance, youve backed up nothing, nor can you. Have fun on ignore.

Welcome to the club Apa!

[theAPAOps5]

So you can't read either. Judging by my rep on this thread alone I am confident that I am the one PROVIDING substance. While you sound like a troll who doesn't know when to shut up. You make yourself look dumb day in and day out lately. Its fun to call you out. But I shouldn't pick on the retarded its an unfair advantage. Go learn some substance Madden boy.

[theAPAOps5]

Welcome to the club Apa!

He won't put us on ignore. He needs people like us to give him knowledge in this sport. He thought he could sound all cool and astute by dropping his Madden education. He belongs on a board more suited to his kind.

[SureShot]

He won't put us on ignore. He needs people like us to give him knowledge in this sport. He thought he could sound all cool and astute by dropping his Madden education. He belongs on a board more suited to his kind.

The funny thing is he still hasn't told us how he would have gone about getting a RB or which one for that matter.

[theAPAOps5]

Well you see in Madden you can just trade. And if that doesn't work you make your own guy and then sign him. Thats his route. But that would be too embarrassing to post here. He already is the laughing stock.

[Northman]

So you can't read either. Judging by my rep on this thread alone I am confident that I am the one PROVIDING substance. While you sound like a troll who doesn't know when to shut up. You make yourself look dumb day in and day out lately. Its fun to call you out. But I shouldn't pick on the retarded its an unfair advantage. Go learn some substance Madden boy.

REP. Hilarious!

For the record, NONE of you are up to my status yet when you havent had Lex create a thread specifically FOR YOU. :thumbsup: :thanku:

[Old Dude]

It's not all about the running back.

Exhibit 1: Larry Johnson.

Behind great O-Lines in 2005 and 2006, Johnson gains 1,750 in just 9 starts in 2005, then 1,789 yards with a 4.3 avg. and 17 TDs in 2006.

Behind a crappy O-Line in 2007, welll ... let's just say he didn't do so well.

[Northman]

It's not all about the running back.

Exhibit 1: Larry Johnson.

Behind great O-Lines in 2005 and 2006, Johnson gains 1,750 in just 9 starts in 2005, then 1,789 yards with a 4.3 avg. and 17 TDs in 2006.

Behind a crappy O-Line in 2007, welll ... let's just say he didn't do so well.


End of Discussion. :thumbsup:

[lex]

It's not all about the running back.

Exhibit 1: Larry Johnson.

Behind great O-Lines in 2005 and 2006, Johnson gains 1,750 in just 9 starts in 2005, then 1,789 yards with a 4.3 avg. and 17 TDs in 2006.

Behind a crappy O-Line in 2007, welll ... let's just say he didn't do so well.

Try searching for one instance where someone has said that you need a running back and nothing else. Youre arguing against a point that was never made.

[fontaine]

I used to think Shanahan was leveraging his acumen on offense by selling off parts of our offense to help the defense. But now I think he's just feeding his ego by taking these mid round guys because he knows they can get 1000 yards and if they do gain 1000 yards, people will talk about how smart he is. And after an embattled 7-9 season, I think he wants people to think he's smart again.

This couldn't be more inaccurate.

Hours after the draft Shanahan and Goodman have come on record saying how pleased and surprised they were with their 2nd day picks because they had most of them rated as first day guys.

If Shanahan publicly states that Torain had a 1-3 round grade on him then your words above ring pretty hollow and desperate.

And do you honestly think people will say Shanahan is smart because he can find late round gems at RB and turn them into 1000 yard runners? Oh please, Shanahan could trot out Selvin Young and turn him into a 1000 yard back and no one would bat an eyelid because that's what's expected outta Denver.

[lex]

This couldn't be more inaccurate.

Hours after the draft Shanahan and Goodman have come on record saying how pleased and surprised they were with their 2nd day picks because they had most of them rated as first day guys.

If Shanahan publicly states that Torain had a 1-3 round grade on him then your words above ring pretty hollow and desperate.

And do you honestly think people will say Shanahan is smart because he can find late round gems at RB and turn them into 1000 yard runners? Oh please, Shanahan could trot out Selvin Young and turn him into a 1000 yard back and no one would bat an eyelid because that's what's expected outta Denver.

These points have been made many times and Ive responded to them many times over. And, yes, I do think that its about feeding Shanahans ego at this point. I used to be like you.

[fontaine]

These points have been made many times and Ive responded to them many times over. And, yes, I do think that its about feeding Shanahans ego at this point. I used to be like you.

I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive.

Ofcourse it's about ego as well and in this case Shanahan's ego is justified. He's done more with mid/late-round RBs than most teams have with first rounders.

If you can't recognize that he can do this and help the team out immensely with a solid first day (OT/Slot WR/KR/PR) then it's probably your own ego thats the real problem here and not Shanahan's.

[lex]

I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive.

Ofcourse it's about ego as well and in this case Shanahan's ego is justified. He's done more with mid/late-round RBs than most teams have with first rounders.

If you can't recognize that he can do this and help the team out immensely with a solid first day (OT/Slot WR/KR/PR) then it's probably your own ego thats the real problem here and not Shanahan's.


If he is so stellar with turning scrubs into productive backs, why draft one at all? If we need a running back, he should have the seeds to draft one high. If not, why take one before the 7th? Its likewise a waste fo a pick to take one in the middle rounds. And the its easy for Shanahan to say he thought highly of the dude when he thinks any scrub can do well in his system...thats a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one...but it doesnt mean the RB is that good and it doesnt mean it wasnt a waste of a draft pick. Im of the school of thought that if anyone can do well in our system, imagine what a real running back can do. But we dont get real running backs. We get scrubs because its all about Shanahan being able to say, "look at what I did with another scrub running back that wont do squat with another team."

Also, my ego's not at stake. Im not the one dwelling on wasting a 2nd round draft pick two years ago on an injured malcontent and forgoing Devin Hester in the process. Im not the one who is allowing that singe event to pre-empt our draft two years later.

[Eldorado]

If he is so stellar with turning scrubs into productive backs, why draft one at all? If we need a running back, he should have the seeds to draft one high. If not, why take one before the 7th? Its likewise a waste fo a pick to take one in the middle rounds. And the its easy for Shanahan to say he thought highly of the dude when he thinks any scrub can do well in his system...thats a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one...but it doesnt mean the RB is that good and it doesnt mean it wasnt a waste of a draft pick. Im of the school of thought that if anyone can do well in our system, imagine what a real running back can do. But we dont get real running backs. We get scrubs because its all about Shanahan being able to say, "look at what I did with another scrub running back that wont do squat with another team."

Also, my ego's not at stake. Im not the one dwelling on wasting a 2nd round draft pick two years ago on an injured malcontent and forgoing Devin Hester in the process. Im not the one who is allowing that singe event to pre-empt our draft two years later.

I think we should go for a real running back, but 2 factors keep that from being a wise choice this year. 1) Running backs take less time to acclimate to the pros than OL or WR (among others), so while we can plug and play a RB later, that would be less likely for the OL and WR, which we (hopefully) addressed this year. 2) the shortest career is a RB. So if you take a RB A season or two before a OL or a QB, by the time the OL or QB is playing well, the RB is done. I think there is a plan in place, and heres to a plan going off well!

[OABB]

lex, you have gone down the rabbit-hole haven't you? You are spinning in ire and lost at sea.

every once and awhile you squeak out a coherent thought only to have it poof into thin air with your incessant and biased rampages upon logic and reason.

please, recollect yourself and get ****ing over it already.

[lex]

I think we should go for a real running back, but 2 factors keep that from being a wise choice this year. 1) Running backs take less time to acclimate to the pros than OL or WR (among others), so while we can plug and play a RB later, that would be less likely for the OL and WR, which we (hopefully) addressed this year. 2) the shortest career is a RB. So if you take a RB A season or two before a OL or a QB, by the time the OL or QB is playing well, the RB is done. I think there is a plan in place, and heres to a plan going off well!


Im not as bent out of shape with the OT at 12 pick as you seem to think. My bigger grievance is letting Shanahans ahab-like quest to find Devin Hester to take over at 42...and then sit on his hands from 42 to our first pick in the 4th. You'll never convince me that a return man is more imporant than a RB.

[lex]

lex, you have gone down the rabbit-hole haven't you? You are spinning in ire and lost at sea.

every once and awhile you squeak out a coherent thought only to have it poof into thin air with your incessant and biased rampages upon logic and reason.

please, recollect yourself and get ****ing over it already.

Youre going to need to step up with your posts. All this posturing and, "I dont like what you said so youre a stupid head" comments dont really accomplish anything. Theyre a waste of my time. If you want some back and forth, your going to need to step up with more substance and less posturing. Otherwise, youre going on ignore like the other clowns who are a waste of my time.

[fontaine]

If he is so stellar with turning scrubs into productive backs, why draft one at all? If we need a running back, he should have the seeds to draft one high. If not, why take one before the 7th? Its likewise a waste fo a pick to take one in the middle rounds. And the its easy for Shanahan to say he thought highly of the dude when he thinks any scrub can do well in his system...thats a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one...but it doesnt mean the RB is that good and it doesnt mean it wasnt a waste of a draft pick. Im of the school of thought that if anyone can do well in our system, imagine what a real running back can do. But we dont get real running backs. We get scrubs because its all about Shanahan being able to say, "look at what I did with another scrub running back that wont do squat with another team."


1. I know we joke about it but there's no such thing as taking a scrub and turning him into a 1000 yard back. It's not just him but plenty of people think highly of Torain outside the FO. And it's not always about that. A lot of our picks at RB have been about depth and that's what Torrain is. Given our history with injuries at the RB position this is more to do with insurance than finding the next TD.

2. We've gotten plenty of "real" RBs for our system as well as high draft picks. Travis Henry, Clinton Portis, a Portis clone in the 2nd in Bell but overall it didn't net us the most important thing of all: Playoff wins. We can all imagine what a "real" RB can do and looking at Denver's history, it's not a whole lot different than what guys like Mike Anderson, etc could do.

Also, my ego's not at stake. Im not the one dwelling on wasting a 2nd round draft pick two years ago on an injured malcontent and forgoing Devin Hester in the process. Im not the one who is allowing that singe event to pre-empt our draft two years later.

Yes you are because you're the only one talking about Hester and two years ago. Shanahan tried to find a great returner before Hester ever came on the scene with D Will who was drafted in the 2nd more for his ST abilities than being CB so you're assumption about Shanahan somehow still being stuck on Hester is wrong.

You would be far more correct in saying Mike wanted to find another DWill as a returner than harping on about Hester.

[Eldorado]

Im not as bent out of shape with the OT at 12 pick as you seem to think. My bigger grievance is letting Shanahans ahab-like quest to find Devin Hester to take over at 42...and then sit on his hands from 42 to our first pick in the 4th. You'll never convince me that a return man is more imporant than a RB.

Cool. Personally, I think they are looking at him as the slot guy for the future with immediate returns on ST. Based on the fact that we just (hopefully) got our LT, I think that next year would be the earliest you would want to invest big rookie $ in a RB.

[OABB]

Im not as bent out of shape with the OT at 12 pick as you seem to think. My bigger grievance is letting Shanahans ahab-like quest to find Devin Hester to take over at 42...and then sit on his hands from 42 to our first pick in the 4th. You'll never convince me that a return man is more imporant than a RB.

again, what could have been a little coherent is all but lost now. I'm not going over the value of royal, or the value of slot/kr/pr with you. You started by being upset with mendenhall not being picked, and now you are moving on to royal?

here's the deal Lex, I wanted mendenhall too, not because I am a madden guy, but because I miss TD. He reminded me of him and I got delusional in my hope that he would somehow be the next TD.

that, my friend, is ahab country.

we have a proven runner in our backfield. 6 games into the season, there will be a travis henry love fest on this board that will be as equally disturbing as it it touching.

you won't even remember your post draft insanity, I guarantee it.



and p.s. it isn't me that should step up my posts... you are quickly becoming the but of a joke here.

[Eldorado]

again, what could have been a little coherent is all but lost now. I'm not going over the value of royal, or the value of slot/kr/pr with you. You started by being upset with mendenhall not being picked, and now you are moving on to royal?

here's the deal Lex, I wanted mendenhall too, not because I am a madden guy, but because I miss TD. He reminded me of him and I got delusional in my hope that he would somehow be the next TD.

that, my friend, is ahab country.

we have a proven runner in our backfield. 6 games into the season, there will be a travis henry love fest on this board that will be as equally disturbing as it it touching.

you won't even remember your post draft insanity, I guarantee it.

Not from me there wont.

[lex]

1. I know we joke about it but there's no such thing as taking a scrub and turning him into a 1000 yard back. It's not just him but plenty of people think highly of Torain outside the FO. And it's not always about that. A lot of our picks at RB have been about depth and that's what Torrain is. Given our history with injuries at the RB position this is more to do with insurance than finding the next TD.

Our running backs havent really done as well after going to other teams. That pretty much settles that discussion.

2. We've gotten plenty of "real" RBs for our system as well as high draft picks. Travis Henry, Clinton Portis, a Portis clone in the 2nd in Bell but overall it didn't net us the most important thing of all: Playoff wins. We can all imagine what a "real" RB can do and looking at Denver's history, it's not a whole lot different than what guys like Mike Anderson, etc could do.

And trading Portis netted us how many wins in how many years since trading him?



Yes you are because you're the only one talking about Hester and two years ago. Shanahan tried to find a great returner before Hester ever came on the scene with D Will who was drafted in the 2nd more for his ST abilities than being CB so you're assumption about Shanahan somehow still being stuck on Hester is wrong.

Not really, I cant even begin to tell you how many times Ive heard the comment, "we have too many needs to take this or that player". And then we go and draft a kick returner at 42. And actually, its not just Hester. We wasted a pick on Walker who is not on the team anymore and who we got nothing for. Plus, we wasted a pick on Hickson only to unceremoniously cut him in some knee-jerk reaction only to go watch him contribute to the Giants winning the SB...and in the same year watching Devin Hester rerturn two kicks against us. Face it. Shanahan has egg on his face and thats why he is obsessed with this ahab like quest.

[lex]

again, what could have been a little coherent is all but lost now. I'm not going over the value of royal, or the value of slot/kr/pr with you. You started by being upset with mendenhall not being picked, and now you are moving on to royal?

here's the deal Lex, I wanted mendenhall too, not because I am a madden guy, but because I miss TD. He reminded me of him and I got delusional in my hope that he would somehow be the next TD.

that, my friend, is ahab country.

we have a proven runner in our backfield. 6 games into the season, there will be a travis henry love fest on this board that will be as equally disturbing as it it touching.

you won't even remember your post draft insanity, I guarantee it.



and p.s. it isn't me that should step up my posts... you are quickly becoming the but of a joke here.

Again with the posturing. Have fun on ignore with the other clowns. Youre wasting my time.

[Eldorado]

And trading Portis netted us how many wins in how many years since trading him?

ur not serious, right? There was a NE game, I..I vaguely remember...Something about a pick 6...oh well, its lost to me now.

[OABB]

Again with the posturing. Have fun on ignore with the other clowns. Youre wasting my time.

please don't ignore me! please! I need you! come back!

teach me how to be rational and how not to post based on my ridiculous bias... master, oh, master

thanks for your vengeful love lexnextwolf.

[fontaine]

Not really, I cant even begin to tell you how many times Ive heard the comment, "we have too many needs to take this or that player". And then we go and draft a kick returner at 42. And actually, its not just Hester. We wasted a pick on Walker who is not on the team anymore and who we got nothing for. Plus, we wasted a pick on Hickson only to unceremoniously cut him in some knee-jerk reaction only to go watch him contribute to the Giants winning the SB...and in the same year watching Devin Hester rerturn two kicks against us. Face it. Shanahan has egg on his face and thats why he is obsessed with this ahab like quest.

We were wasting picks looooong before Hester and it had nothing to do with Shanahan being obsessed with some quest. You don't like the pick, fine.

I'll take a guy like Royal who could consistently get us good field position and develop into a good slot guy any day of the week.

[Northman]

ur not serious, right? There was a NE game, I..I vaguely remember...Something about a pick 6...oh well, its lost to me now.

I must of missed something that Lex didnt. Did Portis take us to the AFC Championship game in 05'? :P

[lex]

ur not serious, right? There was a NE game, I..I vaguely remember...Something about a pick 6...oh well, its lost to me now.


OK, but that was what, Champs 3rd year with the team? Are you telling me we couldnt have found a suitable solution at CB in 3 years? And let me remind you, against Pitt and NE in the 2005 playoffs, we werent exactly having success running the ball. If theres anything to be gleamed from the playoff loss to Indy its that its more about your worst CB and having a pass rush.

[DivineLegion]

Does anyone remember the name of the guy who was the leading rusher through the first five games and that other dude that is going into his sophmore season in the NFL who showed a TON of potential last season...

I guess its not important, and improving a desimated line dosent effect that at all. I mean hell its not like we drafted a guy whos a prime fit for the ZBS.

[lex]

Does anyone remember the name of the guy who was the leading rusher through the first five games and that other dude that is going into his sophmore season in the NFL who showed a TON of potential last season...

I guess its not important, and improving a desimated line dosent effect that at all. I mean hell its not like we drafted a guy whos a prime fit for the ZBS.

Im not trying to be a casually dismissive prick in saying this but that nail has been hit so many times.

[Eldorado]

We were wasting picks looooong before Hester and it had nothing to do with Shanahan being obsessed with some quest. You don't like the pick, fine.

I'll take a guy like Royal who could consistently get us good field position and develop into a good slot guy any day of the week.

hear hear.

[Eldorado]

OK, but that was what, Champs 3rd year with the team? Are you telling me we couldnt have found a suitable solution at CB in 3 years? And let me remind you, against Pitt and NE in the 2005 playoffs, we werent exactly having success running the ball. If theres anything to be gleamed from the playoff loss to Indy its that its more about your worst CB and having a pass rush.

Just to be clear, here. You would rather have kept Portis than champ?

[Inkana7]

lex is sounding more and more like crazyhorse with every post. It's eerie.

[lex]

Just to be clear, here. You would rather have kept Portis than champ?

I go back and forth. I mean, if keeping Portis would have meant neglecting the offensive line, id be less in favor of it. Probably for the most part I wish we would have kept Portis. In the first year we lost to Indy in the playoffs, we beat them in their own building to make the playoffs and we did it by running down their throats. Then when the playoff game rolled around, I thought some of our guys werent ready since we had just trounced them the week before. I think that game was a matter of who got out of the blocks first. If it had been us like the previous game, we would have won, but they got out of the blocks first. I think we could have won that game but since we didnt we over reacted and tore the whole thing down in order to get one great corner,...and the next time we played them in the playoffs I thought we were less euipped to beat the Colts. Again, its as much about a pass rush and your worst corner. But it kind of depends on other moves that would have built off holding on to Portis.

[theAPAOps5]

please don't ignore me! please! I need you! come back!

teach me how to be rational and how not to post based on my ridiculous bias... master, oh, master

thanks for your vengeful love lexnextwolf.

Its great being on ignore by lex. Everyone else can see us shut his ass down but him. Its the best thing he could have done. Then I don't have to read his nonsense and try to explain.

[Northman]

Its great being on ignore by lex. Everyone else can see us shut his ass down but him. Its the best thing he could have done. Then I don't have to read his nonsense and try to explain.


Yeeeeeeep. Hilarious!

[theAPAOps5]

Yeeeeeeep. Hilarious!

Best part is by the time he ignores all the people that make sense he will be left with Crazyhorse, Bob, Telluride, and Wolf.

[Northman]

Best part is by the time he ignores all the people that make sense he will be left with Crazyhorse, Bob, Telluride, and Wolf.

What a perfect little world that will be for him. :rofl:


What i dont get is why doesnt he bother the planet like Bob bothers us here? They are essentially the same guy anyway.

[Eldorado]

I go back and forth. I mean, if keeping Portis would have meant neglecting the offensive line, id be less in favor of it. Probably for the most part I wish we would have kept Portis. In the first year we lost to Indy in the playoffs, we beat them in their own building to make the playoffs and we did it by running down their throats. Then when the playoff game rolled around, I thought some of our guys werent ready since we had just trounced them the week before. I think that game was a matter of who got out of the blocks first. If it had been us like the previous game, we would have won, but they got out of the blocks first. I think we could have won that game but since we didnt we over reacted and tore the whole thing down in order to get one great corner,...and the next time we played them in the playoffs I thought we were less euipped to beat the Colts. Again, its as much about a pass rush and your worst corner. But it kind of depends on other moves that would have built off holding on to Portis.

ok...This is the point in the party where your good friends pull you aside, take the lamp shade off of your head, wipe the spittle and vomit from your chin and say, "Your done buddy. Its time to take you home."

[TheChamp24]

btw, look what I came up with, lets see lex spin this:
LaDainian Tomlinson averaged during the regular season 77 yards a game(rushing) against playoff teams, and if you take out his performance against the Titans, its 60.75 yards a game. Oh, and 3 TD's rushing in those games.
In the playoffs, he was nonexistent playing no role in the teams wins.

Oh, but we need a stud RB to win games right lex?

[Northman]

ok...This is the point in the party where your good friends pull you aside, take the lamp shade off of your head, wipe the spittle and vomit from your chin and say, "Your done buddy. Its time to take you home."

I love how he uses the regular season game against Indy as his basis for how that team would ultimately perform in the playoffs. Not only was it basically meaningless for Indy but we used Mighty Mouse to beat them. Talk about a moron who has just no clue at all. And then to try and use that cluelessness to try and validate his points is even more baffling.

[lex]

btw, look what I came up with, lets see lex spin this:
LaDainian Tomlinson averaged during the regular season 77 yards a game(rushing) against playoff teams, and if you take out his performance against the Titans, its 60.75 yards a game. Oh, and 3 TD's rushing in those games.
In the playoffs, he was nonexistent playing no role in the teams wins.

Oh, but we need a stud RB to win games right lex?

Yup. Moreso than the Chargers. We dont have the defense the Chargers have. So running the ball is more important to us...always has been going back to the 90s. Nice try.

[lex]

ok...This is the point in the party where your good friends pull you aside, take the lamp shade off of your head, wipe the spittle and vomit from your chin and say, "Your done buddy. Its time to take you home."

Basically, all that posturing is saying is that I said something which you disagree with but nothing of substance. Have fun with the rest of the clowns. If youre not going to say anything substantive, dont waste my time. Tschuss!

[Eldorado]

I love how he uses the regular season game against Indy as his basis for how that team would ultimately perform in the playoffs. Not only was it basically meaningless for Indy but we used Mighty Mouse to beat them. Talk about a moron who has just no clue at all. And then to try and use that cluelessness to try and validate his points is even more baffling.

Absolutely insane. We started out in a reasonable convo about a KR over a running back in the 2nd, who I think will get a solid look at the slot over the next few years (Re-read that sentence again and don't smile. I dare you.), and then we had blown the team up to get champ, who never really did anything for us and we probably should have kept Portis.

I tried. I really did. I thought you guys were being dicks so I reached out to the kid, and then he vomited all over himself. I just wish his friends would show up and take him the hell home.

[theAPAOps5]

I actually don't mind Naptownchief. He is maybe the most decent poster from the chorfs.

[Atlas]

This whole thread sucks. One guy's stupidass opinion and everyone flaming over it. Lex isn't going to change his mind it just goes back and forth with no end.

[lex]

This whole thread sucks. One guy's stupidass opinion and everyone flaming over it. Lex isn't going to change his mind it just goes back and forth with no end.

And the best part is that the guys who keep replying are on my ignore list. Theyre talking amongst themselves. Its awesome.

[Eldorado]

Basically, all that posturing is saying is that I said something which you disagree with but nothing of substance. Have fun with the rest of the clowns. If youre not going to say anything substantive, dont waste my time. Tschuss!

You didn't say something I disagree with. You said something that is factually wrong. You speak of substance, and then you make 5h!t up to support your position.

I shall enjoy my time with the clowns, thank you, I always have. And just so we're clear here:

Your time, is a waste.

[Eldorado]

This whole thread sucks. One guy's stupidass opinion and everyone flaming over it. Lex isn't going to change his mind it just goes back and forth with no end.

Hear hear. Your right, I was wrong. I was just trying to get a discussion going about it (see post 128), I thought....I don't know what I thought. But I am done now. You have my sincerest apologies.

[Northman]

I actually don't mind Naptownchief. He is maybe the most decent poster from the chorfs.

I agree. Ive talked to Nappy behind the scenes and he is a good guy. His one and only downfall is he roots for a sucky ass team. Ooh, jab, gotcha! :wave:

[DBroncos4life]

If you throw out 12th grade he didn't graduate high school either.

[Atlas]

And the best part is that the guys who keep replying are on my ignore list. Theyre talking amongst themselves. Its awesome.

That is pretty funny

[Northman]

This whole thread sucks. One guy's stupidass opinion and everyone flaming over it. Lex isn't going to change his mind it just goes back and forth with no end.

I disagree, this thread is awesome. Lex is cheap entertainment at best during the offseason.

[TheReverend]

This is incredibly reminiscent of the great O4Life Jay Cutler explosion a couple years ago, yet very different at the same time. Judging from that, Lex, it's over, you need to learn to drop the situation and claim you're just passionate about the Broncos running backs and that you're a huge bronco RB supporter no matter who it is lining up behind center... er, I mean behind the QB.

[Drek]

Bleh, youre never going to sell me that a returner is a priority over a running back. Like I said, the reason we made that pick is an Ahab-like obsession from two years ago. I really like Royal as a player, which is why I gave the pick a B but I couldnt give it an A because as priorities go, it should have been a running back.
What running back?

What's the likelihood that Royal is a quality returner? Not Hester, but an above average returner which is a substantial upgrade for us. Whats the chances he's an average or better slot WR?

I'd say in both cases the likelihood is pretty high.

Now consider the RBs we had to chose from. Ray Rice? Jamaal Charles? Both undersized faster backs that we'd have to bet on being able to gain weight without losing too much speed and agility. Charles, the more talented of the two, also needs significant fundamentals improvement because Texas is quite possibly the worst player development program in all of college football.

The chances that we get an every down back out of Ray Rice or Jamaal Charles is pretty rare, and Royal as a slot WR/KR/PR will get more impact touches than a scat back (what Rice and Charles can be reliably expected to be) can contribute.

In previous years we would've rolled the dice on an RB. I'm actually quite happy this year that we took the safe pick with a solid guy who fills two long term areas of need.

And we really need to pin down whether its the system or an eye for talent. To this point, Id have to say the system based on what guys do when they leave Denver in trades that occur because we cant draft or even sign free adequate free agents on defense.
Its an eye for talent, and its Turner's eye. There is no reason to expect our RBs coach to pick D talent, but he's shown the ability to pick out RBs who work well in the ZBS (one cut backs who can hit the hole with authority).

The thing is, he's picking out guys who run well in the ZBS, nothing else. You take most of them out of Denver, where they're asked to do something other than scan, find the lane, make one cut to it, and head down the field, and they struggle. He's picking system fits, just like how the Pats spent several years until '07 picking out scrubs and still getting good passing production out of Brady, or how the Colts recently have managed to run random guys out there at LB and still keep stopping the run this year and last.

Would it be better if we got our Moss/Welker level upgrade at RB? Sure, but we can still run the ball well if we don't, so its something we can sit back on and look for the perfect situation to fill it with an all-star.

And regarding next year, I really doubt the running back class next year is on par with what it is this year.
Its not, but we'll have the luxury of being able to afford more value being invested in the RB position now that we've filled the roster with some depth.

Im just waiting until all this plays out and we get some new people in there but in the meantime it sucks watching us get posterized repeatedly by RBs like Tomlinson, Johnson, and now McFadden and we have bargain basement scrubs that were masterminded to stroke our coaches ego.
No RBs posterized us until just the last year and a half. Lets see where this team is at when they get back to a more familiar defensive scheme with some new hard working talent on the field. Wouldn't surprise me if we lock down the run again pretty soon, its one of the main reasons to stick with a 4-3 over the 3-4 and has paid off for us until just recently.

We'll keep trotting different backs out and let them play until they're basically worthless until either A. one of them is a TD level home run or B. a young stud is in an ideal position for us to snag him.

Also, I really didn't like the Torian pick until I read up on the kid. Honestly, he sounds like a very good fit here. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he's a productive back here for several years (as long as you can expect any RB to last).

[Sassy]

I think Lex would rather the Broncos O keep on starting at the ten ;D

[Merlin]

This is incredibly reminiscent of the great O4Life Jay Cutler explosion a couple years ago, yet very different at the same time.
I was thinking the exact same thing...and at that time I thought would be a decade before we would see one of equivalent proportions, but I guess I underestimated some of the "fans" in this forum. The worst part with Lex is his diatribes were already old before the draft, when he suggested Denver trade the draft for McFadden.

[theAPAOps5]

That is pretty funny

Whats funny is that he pretends to have us on ignore. Knowing full and well he reads everything we post. Its his passive aggressive way of actually learning a thing or two about football.

[Atlas]

Whats funny is that he pretends to have us on ignore. Knowing full and well he reads everything we post. Its his passive aggressive way of actually learning a thing or two about football.

Oh I agree. It was still funny though.

[BroncoMan4ever]

what do you think the Clady pick was about add in HILLIS and the return of Nalen and Hamilton and we don't need to worry about the line. Plus now Jay has protection, at least 2 go to guys at receiver, an improved running game, a safety valve at FB and one of the best up and coming young TE in the league. This offense is capable of throwing up 30 a game, if injury doesn't tear the team apart.
Plus our defense is better, so expect an 11-5 or 12-4 season.

[lex]

What running back?

What's the likelihood that Royal is a quality returner? Not Hester, but an above average returner which is a substantial upgrade for us. Whats the chances he's an average or better slot WR?

I'd say in both cases the likelihood is pretty high.

Now consider the RBs we had to chose from. Ray Rice? Jamaal Charles? Both undersized faster backs that we'd have to bet on being able to gain weight without losing too much speed and agility. Charles, the more talented of the two, also needs significant fundamentals improvement because Texas is quite possibly the worst player development program in all of college football.

The chances that we get an every down back out of Ray Rice or Jamaal Charles is pretty rare, and Royal as a slot WR/KR/PR will get more impact touches than a scat back (what Rice and Charles can be reliably expected to be) can contribute.

Charles ran a 10.17 100 meters. Theres plenty of room to put on 10 lbs and he'll be plenty fast. And down the stretch last year he was actually carrying the load getting significant carries without wearing down. As a matter of fact, he would get stronger as the game wore on.

In previous years we would've rolled the dice on an RB. I'm actually quite happy this year that we took the safe pick with a solid guy who fills two long term areas of need.


Its an eye for talent, and its Turner's eye. There is no reason to expect our RBs coach to pick D talent, but he's shown the ability to pick out RBs who work well in the ZBS (one cut backs who can hit the hole with authority).

Put another way, this is bargain basement...its finding the next guy who does well because of the system...a guy who when he goes to another team, wont do much.

The thing is, he's picking out guys who run well in the ZBS, nothing else. You take most of them out of Denver, where they're asked to do something other than scan, find the lane, make one cut to it, and head down the field, and they struggle. He's picking system fits, just like how the Pats spent several years until '07 picking out scrubs and still getting good passing production out of Brady, or how the Colts recently have managed to run random guys out there at LB and still keep stopping the run this year and last.

Im glad you bring up the Pats because I think its appropriate. Notice how they went to relying on Randy Moss and look at the kind of season they had last year. They identified their strength, ie Tom Brady's quality at QB, and maximized it instead of trying to get by on bargain basement pieces, unlike what we're doing.

Would it be better if we got our Moss/Welker level upgrade at RB? Sure, but we can still run the ball well if we don't, so its something we can sit back on and look for the perfect situation to fill it with an all-star.

Simply put: yes. And in the second sentence all youre doing is describing what Ive described numerous times in pointing out that if we can truly get by with practically anyone, why even waste a mid round pick? And also if any scrub can do well in our system, imagine what an eliter runner can do. We're in a division with Larry Johnson, Darren McFadden, LaDainian Tomlinson, and now Jamaal Charles all of which are better than what we have...and two of those teams run ZBS. We're the only one who takes this approach and its out of the arrogance of our coaches.


Its not, but we'll have the luxury of being able to afford more value being invested in the RB position now that we've filled the roster with some depth.

Sorry, but this class was one where there was depth at RB, and again, it goes back to choosing between a returner in some Ahab-like quest or picking a quality RB who carries the ball 20 times a game as opposed to 5 like a punt returner. Not only that, but theres more to punt returns than a guy carrying the ball. Its amazing the level of contradiction by many in defending this choice.


No RBs posterized us until just the last year and a half. Lets see where this team is at when they get back to a more familiar defensive scheme with some new hard working talent on the field. Wouldn't surprise me if we lock down the run again pretty soon, its one of the main reasons to stick with a 4-3 over the 3-4 and has paid off for us until just recently.

Are you kidding. Theyve been doing it constantly. Look at the Thursday night game in Arrowhead two years ago. We totally gave it up to Larry Johnsons. Look at our game vs San Diego two years ago where we totally rolled over for Ladainian Tomlinson...you know the one where we were going to give him how ever many touch downs he needed to break the touch down record. And how do we answer that? With some bargain basement RB taken in the 5th round, when we could have had Dre Moore or Jon Goff. Last year we were posterized vs Green Bay. Whenever another team needed a big play, theyd dial one up because Dre Bly, who people seem to love, would always give it up...look at the Oakland game...look at the Green Bay game. It happens all the time. We answer that by struggling in the redzone, Selvin Young getting tackled after every run of 40 yards or more, and Brandon Marshall dodging 6 tacklers to gain 7 yards on a bubble screen.

We'll keep trotting different backs out and let them play until they're basically worthless until either A. one of them is a TD level home run or B. a young stud is in an ideal position for us to snag him.

And again, its out of arrogance. When we do that it calls attention to our system and people talk about Shanahans acumen as an offensive coach, so he feels smart.

Also, I really didn't like the Torian pick until I read up on the kid. Honestly, he sounds like a very good fit here. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he's a productive back here for several years (as long as you can expect any RB to last).

Good fit here. Thats the garbage we keep on hearing. I want to hear that we have someone of quality...someone that doesnt have to be here to do well. Otherwise, we're not maximizing our strength. We're just getting by.

[lex]

I think Lex would rather the Broncos O keep on starting at the ten ;D

Let me ask you, were you in favor of getting an Olinemen over a RB at 12?

[Beantown Bronco]

We're in a division with Larry Johnson, Darren McFadden, LaDainian Tomlinson, and now Jamaal Charles all of which are better than what we have...

False. When Henry was healthy last year, he was putting up better numbers than all of the above.

[socalorado]

Charles ran a 10.17 100 meters. Theres plenty of room to put on 10 lbs and he'll be plenty fast. And down the stretch last year he was actually carrying the load getting significant carries without wearing down. As a matter of fact, he would get stronger as the game wore on.



Put another way, this is bargain basement...its finding the next guy who does well because of the system...a guy who when he goes to another team, wont do much.



Im glad you bring up the Pats because I think its appropriate. Notice how they went to relying on Randy Moss and look at the kind of season they had last year. They identified their strength, ie Tom Brady's quality at QB, and maximized it instead of trying to get by on bargain basement pieces, unlike what we're doing.



Simply put: yes. And in the second sentence all youre doing is describing what Ive described numerous times in pointing out that if we can truly get by with practically anyone, why even waste a mid round pick? And also if any scrub can do well in our system, imagine what an eliter runner can do. We're in a division with Larry Johnson, Darren McFadden, LaDainian Tomlinson, and now Jamaal Charles all of which are better than what we have...and two of those teams run ZBS. We're the only one who takes this approach and its out of the arrogance of our coaches.




Sorry, but this class was one where there was depth at RB, and again, it goes back to choosing between a returner in some Ahab-like quest or picking a quality RB who carries the ball 20 times a game as opposed to 5 like a punt returner. Not only that, but theres more to punt returns than a guy carrying the ball. Its amazing the level of contradiction by many in defending this choice.




Are you kidding. Theyve been doing it constantly. Look at the Thursday night game in Arrowhead two years ago. We totally gave it up to Larry Johnsons. Look at our game vs San Diego two years ago where we totally rolled over for Ladainian Tomlinson...you know the one where we were going to give him how ever many touch downs he needed to break the touch down record. And how do we answer that? With some bargain basement RB taken in the 5th round, when we could have had Dre Moore or Jon Goff. Last year we were posterized vs Green Bay. Whenever another team needed a big play, theyd dial one up because Dre Bly, who people seem to love, would always give it up...look at the Oakland game...look at the Green Bay game. It happens all the time. We answer that by struggling in the redzone, Selvin Young getting tackled after every run of 40 yards or more, and Brandon Marshall dodging 6 tacklers to gain 7 yards on a bubble screen.



And again, its out of arrogance. When we do that it calls attention to our system and people talk about Shanahans acumen as an offensive coach, so he feels smart.



Good fit here. Thats the garbage we keep on hearing. I want to hear that we have someone of quality...someone that doesnt have to be here to do well. Otherwise, we're not maximizing our strength. We're just getting by.

Ok lex, well DEN didnt draft your guy, so lets just move on,
Check these guys out.

Chris Wells*, Ohio State
Height: 6-1. Weight: 225.
40 Time: 4.47.
Projected Round (2009): 1st round.
A 225-pound running back with 4.4 speed, Chris Wells averaged 5.5 yards per carry as a freshman, which was a higher mark than what Antonio Pittman maintained (5.1). Wells, who gained 576 yards, will be the feature back now that Pittman has moved on to the NFL.

Knowshon Moreno*, Georgia
Height: 5-11. Weight: 212.
40 Time: 4.47.
Projected Round (2009): 1st round.
A red-shirt freshman, Knowshon Moreno doesn't have the best size-40 combination in the world, but he's a talented runner who gained at least 100 yards in five consecutive games.

Javarris James*, Miami
Height: 6-0. Weight: 211.
40 Time: 4.47.
Projected Round (2009): 2.
The cousin of Edgerrin James, Javarris led the Hurricanes in rushing as a freshman, totaling 802 on the ground and 200 through the air. James has a nice 40 considering his size.

Lets move on and hope for one of these guys next year!

[lex]

False. When Henry was healthy last year, he was putting up better numbers than all of the above.

Youre sample size is 4 games and one of them was vs the Raiders. How did he do vs Jax? Once you see how he did against Jax, go back to the original post in this thread. Selvin Young ran circles around KC twice, but against playoff teams it was a different story.

[lex]

Ok lex, well DEN didnt draft your guy, so lets just move on,
Check these guys out.

Chris Wells*, Ohio State
Height: 6-1. Weight: 225.
40 Time: 4.47.
Projected Round (2009): 1st round.
A 225-pound running back with 4.4 speed, Chris Wells averaged 5.5 yards per carry as a freshman, which was a higher mark than what Antonio Pittman maintained (5.1). Wells, who gained 576 yards, will be the feature back now that Pittman has moved on to the NFL.

Knowshon Moreno*, Georgia
Height: 5-11. Weight: 212.
40 Time: 4.47.
Projected Round (2009): 1st round.
A red-shirt freshman, Knowshon Moreno doesn't have the best size-40 combination in the world, but he's a talented runner who gained at least 100 yards in five consecutive games.

Javarris James*, Miami
Height: 6-0. Weight: 211.
40 Time: 4.47.
Projected Round (2009): 2.
The cousin of Edgerrin James, Javarris led the Hurricanes in rushing as a freshman, totaling 802 on the ground and 200 through the air. James has a nice 40 considering his size.

Lets move on and hope for one of these guys next year!

I would say only one of those names really even belongs in the discussion. And besides, whats the point of throwing those names out there? The current regime is committed to taking a mid round "talent". This year proves it. People think we took care of a lot of needs but next year there will be other needs and we dont even know to what degree this draft took care of needs. But if youre going to defend this draft as taking care of needs, its kind of hard to defend the Torain pick.

[socalorado]

I was thinking the exact same thing...and at that time I thought would be a decade before we would see one of equivalent proportions, but I guess I underestimated some of the "fans" in this forum. The worst part with Lex is his diatribes were already old before the draft, when he suggested Denver trade the draft for McFadden.

He didnt suggest to trade away the draft for DMAC.
Lets get this straight, he wanted to trade Champ for 2 1st rounders and rebuild the team with high draft picks over the next 2 years.
Its not a totally crazy idea, just one that is dicey to an extent when considering that the players you do get are busts.

[Beantown Bronco]

Youre sample size is 4 games and one of them was vs the Raiders. How did he do vs Jax? Once you see how he did against Jax, go back to the original post in this thread. Selvin Young ran circles around KC twice, but against playoff teams it was a different story.

Are you really using the Jacksonville game to support your argument? Was it Henry's fault the offense only had the ball for 20 minutes and only handed him the ball 11 times? Even in those limited carries, he still managed to score a TD against a stingy run defense.

Two can play this game. If you want to use that game as a measuring stick for the whole year, then consider what his numbers would be for a full season if he scored a TD every 11 carries. He'd be breaking some serious records at that pace.

[lex]

Are you really using the Jacksonville game to support your argument? Was it Henry's fault the offense only had the ball for 20 minutes and only handed him the ball 11 times? Even in those limited carries, he still managed to score a TD against a stingy run defense.

Two can play this game. If you want to use that game as a measuring stick for the whole year, then consider what his numbers would be for a full season if he scored a TD every 11 carries. He'd be breaking some serious records at that pace.

OK, Selvin Young had a better APC and the bulk of Henry's season was concentrated in the first 4 games. Selvin Young had a sample size that was at least as large and a better APC...Selvin Young was an undrafted free agent. And Selvin Young did that behind a line that had novices at LG and C. You cant even definitively say Henry is the best running back on his own team....oh but let me guess, whatever Henry didnt do, your excuse will be because it was the OLine...well the Oline was in better shape for a majority of the time Henry was playing than it was for Young if you listen to most people.

How many TDs did Henry have? What was his longest run? Not only that, but let me remind you, your sample size was 25% of the season. Wow. Youre building your whole argument on that?

[oubronco]

Dude if you are in love with all the running backs in the AFC west then go root for them

[lex]

Dude if you are in love with all the running backs in the AFC west then go root for them

I might but only if you agree to move to Canada.

[OABB]

OK, Selvin Young had a better APC and the bulk of Henry's season was concentrated in the first 4 games. Selvin Young had a sample size that was at least as large and a better APC...Selvin Young was an undrafted free agent. And Selvin Young did that behind a line that had novices at LG and C. You cant even definitively say Henry is the best running back on his own team....oh but let me guess, whatever Henry didnt do, your excuse will be because it was the OLine...well the Oline was in better shape for a majority of the time Henry was playing than it was for Young if you listen to most people.

How many TDs did Henry have? What was his longest run? Not only that, but let me remind you, your sample size was 25% of the season. Wow. Youre building your whole argument on that?


It isn't fair to use anything from last year as an indication. our whole team was off because of our poor rush defense, our poor st, and our young o. Yards were not the problem, but rz scoring was. If you look back to last year, nobody could run it in. when we scored in the rz, it was usually a cannon throw from cutler.

my point:

Lex, if anyone is posturing, it is you. we are #1 in EVERY MAJOR RUSHING CATEGORY OVER THE PAST !5 YEARS with changeover, rebuilding and injuries.
perhaps health, maturation, and good TEAM play will improve our rushing stats, no?

I know you have me on ignore because I have tend to make sense, but hopefully this question will get to you.

[oubronco]

I might but only if you agree to move to Canada.

sorry I would rather live in Denver

[lex]

sorry I would rather live in Denver

I was just throwing it out there that your spewing the classic "love it or leave it" response.

[Northman]

Its interesting that Lex throws up Rhodes 115 yds vs Jax. Yea, good game for Dominick no doubt about it. But, Against Indy Rhodes had a mere 41 yds with Fargas having 89 yds. Why does this matter? Ill show you.

There were 3 common opponents who were playoff teams with K.C, Oak, and Den. San Diego i left out because its pretty obvious they are a much better team than the rest of the AFCW.

When Denver played against Indy:

Henry- 131 yds
Young- 81 yds

Against Jax:

Henry- 35 yds
Sapp- 12 yds

Against the Pack:

Young- 71 yds
Hall- 10 yds

Oakland

You already saw the Indy numbers. But against the Packers:

Fargas- 57 yds
Jordon- 21 yds

Now, for K.C who evidently according to Lex has a much better back in Johnson correct?

Against Jax:

Johnson- 12 yds
Bennett- -2 yds

Against Indy:

Johnson- 55 yds
Smith- 17 yds

Against the Pack:

Johnson- 53 yds
Holmes- 8 yds

So aside from Rhodes outstanding day with Jax Oakland and K.C did worse than the Denver backs with a "supposed" better RB at the helm. Of course he is already claiming guys like McFadden, Charles, etc being better than what we have when they havent even taken the field on the pro level yet but we all know how ridiculous that is by itself. But thus far he has major holes in his arguement regarding how much better Oakland and K.C are to Denver's Rb's.