View Full Version : Keith Rivers: This year's Vernon Davis
Kaylore
04-23-2008, 01:59 PM
He put up insane numbers at his pro day. He looks like a god in shorts. However when you look at his numbers, concerns are raised.
He is not a playmaker. For all his ability he fails to accomplish very much. An overwhelming majority of his tackles were beyond the line of scrimmage. He only had five tackles behind the LOS. He also has a whopping total of 2 interceptions for his career - none in the last two years. What about forced fumbles? Well he has one.
Ok, so maybe he isn't a big playmaker. However that doesn't mean he's not a lunch-pail type, right? Wrong. Watch the games. The guy plays soft. He doesn't shed blocks, he doesn't bowl people over. He has 2 sacks in the last two years and none in the last year. This doesn't mean he wasn't blized, just that he wasn't effective.
So how did he get all those tackles? He had one of the top defensive tackles playing in front of him. Those tackles were nothing special.
Here's to Keith Rivers: The athlete with no skill.
http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-16777031.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BCF62570B-781B-4D52-A512-017A917EE470%7D
Beantown Bronco
04-23-2008, 02:03 PM
Damn. I'm not sure I like the idea of starting a thread like this here. I agree with your opinion of this guy completely, but I've got a really bad feeling that the Broncos might draft him if he makes it past New Orleans. And this will be a bad, bad thread to have floating around on Saturday. Just gives the trolls more ammo.
SureShot
04-23-2008, 02:03 PM
He played four years and had 240 tackles. I don't understand the hype either.
I agree absolutely and completely. Not only am I not impressed with how he played, I suspect he might actually look worse when he doesn have Mualuga, Sedrick Ellis, and Lawrence Jackson playing along side of him. I cringe at how unimpressive he will be when theres a greater burden at his feet. I can still remember Mendenhalls 79 yard TD vs USC where the door was left open by Rivers completely taking himself out of position. Yikes. If Denver touches this guy, Ill probably start breaking stuff.
Kaylore
04-23-2008, 02:10 PM
Damn. I'm not sure I like the idea of starting a thread like this here. I agree with your opinion of this guy completely, but I've got a really bad feeling that the Broncos might draft him if he makes it past New Orleans. And this will be a bad, bad thread to have floating around on Saturday. Just gives the trolls more ammo.
If we draft him, the FO deserves the scorn it will get.
oubronco
04-23-2008, 02:11 PM
I'd prefer Curtis Lofton
SonOfLe-loLang
04-23-2008, 02:13 PM
I'd prefer Mayo...especially if they'd use him on the inside
SureShot
04-23-2008, 02:14 PM
Hell I would rather have Jordon Dizon. 463 career tackles!
no-pseudo-fan
04-23-2008, 02:56 PM
I prefer that KC drafts him
Gcver2ver3
04-23-2008, 02:59 PM
just say no to keith rivers...
Gcver2ver3
04-23-2008, 02:59 PM
friends don't let friends draft keith rivers...
Gcver2ver3
04-23-2008, 03:00 PM
this is your brain on keith rivers...any questions?
SureShot
04-23-2008, 03:02 PM
Easy there gcver34nbfr677! You just went Mock with three straight posts!
footstepsfrom#27
04-23-2008, 03:06 PM
Don't compare him to Vernon Davis. Davis got hurt his rookie year and was held back some but he had 52 catches last year. He's going to be a very good NFL tight end. Keith Rivers will be a journeyman linebacker and I will vomit profusely if we pick him at 12. I have an impending sense of fear that is exactly what we will do.
cmhargrove
04-23-2008, 03:09 PM
I'd prefer Curtis Lofton
CURTIS! CURTIS! CURTIS!
Gcver2ver3
04-23-2008, 03:10 PM
Easy there gcver34nbfr677! You just went Mock with three straight posts!
i hear ya Surshweartyc3m...
i'll try and be more careful next time...:D
The one player that will make me turn off the draft and drink. Heavily.
Requiem
04-23-2008, 03:47 PM
I actually like Rivers, but then again Kaylore can not like him and we can still be friends.
Kaylore
04-23-2008, 03:59 PM
I actually like Rivers, but then again Kaylore can not like him and we can still be friends.
Wrong! thwack
boltaneer
04-23-2008, 04:01 PM
Way too early to pass judgment on Vernon Davis IMO.
Kaylore
04-23-2008, 04:04 PM
Way too early to pass judgment on Vernon Davis IMO.
Way too early? Not at all. True, you could argue the Kellen Winslow argument that his results are more linked to his circumstances than anything else. However after two years he looks pretty average at best. You can say more time might help and that writing him off is a bit premature - "way too early" after two years doesn't work, though.
footstepsfrom#27
04-23-2008, 05:11 PM
Way too early? Not at all. True, you could argue the Kellen Winslow argument that his results are more linked to his circumstances than anything else. However after two years he looks pretty average at best. You can say more time might help and that writing him off is a bit premature - "way too early" after two years doesn't work, though.
He missed half the season his rookie year. Shannon Sharpe didn't catch 53 passes till his 3rd season.
boltaneer
04-23-2008, 05:16 PM
Way too early? Not at all. True, you could argue the Kellen Winslow argument that his results are more linked to his circumstances than anything else. However after two years he looks pretty average at best. You can say more time might help and that writing him off is a bit premature - "way too early" after two years doesn't work, though.
Have you watched any 49er games recently? Their offense is well, offensive. Alex Smith looks to be a bust.
I had Davis on my fantasy team last season so I was mainly watching him during the games and he would get open but Smith wouldn't even look in his direction. I think the frustration got to him and that's why he went to have a meeting with Mike Nolan last season about it.
Davis' production went up once Shaun Hill replaced Smith (and Dilfer).
27atwater
04-23-2008, 05:30 PM
I don't disagree w/ the overall assessment, but why the comparison to Vernon Davis. Davis put up very good numbers at Maryland...especially when you consider the fact that he was the ONLY weapon on offense. Dude was a beast. I had season seats there. He was the only player on O worth watching. And before ya start, I'm no Terp fan. The seats were due to convenience and location only. He has no QB and suffered an injury his rookie year. He'll be a stud still. Just wait.
elsid13
04-23-2008, 05:33 PM
The one player that will make me turn off the draft and drink. Heavily.
Instead of just drinking heavily while watching it ???
BroncoMan4ever
04-24-2008, 12:12 AM
On the subject of LB's in the draft. I truly think if we want a good hard nosed LB with good instincts, good character and goes all out every play we should take a look at Dizon in the 4th round.
Sure he is undersized but he has that complex similar to Dumervil. If he was 30pounds heavier and 3 inches taller he would no doubt be a 1st day pick, but he could definitely be a really good reliable backup as a WLB that comes in and gives our starter a rest from time to time and also a special teams standout.
Along with kicker and punter we need some guys who play hard on special teams who can tackle, i think he would be a great investment in the 4th round.
DB_champ24
04-24-2008, 12:24 AM
This thread is dumb...There is nothing wrong with Vernon Davis...He was hurt and plays with a terrible offense and QB..Give him a decent team and he'd look ALOT better.
kmonty
04-24-2008, 12:53 AM
Instead of just drinking heavily while watching it ???
LOL Hilarious!
This thread is dumb...There is nothing wrong with Vernon Davis...He was hurt and plays with a terrible offense and QB..Give him a decent team and he'd look ALOT better.
Dude... I don't think you get the point of this thread.
Thanks for shedding some light Kaylore. I hadn't scouted Rivers all that well yet. Now I'm even more hoping they stay away.
DB_champ24
04-24-2008, 01:09 AM
Dude... I don't think you get the point of this thread.
Maybe I don't but from what I got out of it is Rivers had crazy pro day numbers as did Vernon but they dont show it on their game film or stats. I thought Vernon had some very nice plays in his college game film and It seems like hes putting down Vernon when thats not a fair assesment in my opinion... Even though I am a big USC fan I also really hope we dont draft Rivers... I do agree with what he says about Rivers but I dont understand how it can be compared to Vernon Davis.
kmonty
04-24-2008, 01:12 AM
Maybe I don't but from what I got out of it is Rivers had crazy pro day numbers as did Vernon but they dont show it on their game film or stats. I thought Vernon had some very nice plays in his college game film and It seems like hes putting down Vernon when thats not a fair assesment in my opinion... Even though I am a big USC fan I also really hope we dont draft Rivers... I do agree with what he says about Rivers but I dont understand how it can be compared to Vernon Davis.
OK, maybe you do get it :thumbs: It's more about hopefully avoiding Rivers in the draft than debating whether Vernon Davis will pan out, that's all I was trying to say.
DB_champ24
04-24-2008, 01:15 AM
OK, maybe you do get it :thumbs: It's more about hopefully avoiding Rivers in the draft than debating whether Vernon Davis will pan out, that's all I was trying to say.
Haha okay good then
The one player that will make me turn off the draft and drink. Heavily.
I wager that the Broncos have at least one other guy rated highly that none of us suspect who would have exactly the same effect.
footstepsfrom#27
04-24-2008, 08:20 AM
I wager that the Broncos have at least one other guy rated highly that none of us suspect who would have exactly the same effect.
Maybe that BC tackle, Cherliwhatshisname? He's not a LT...I don't want him, certainly not at 12.
Killericon
04-24-2008, 08:30 AM
There is ONE difference...People(Myself included) around here wanted Vernon. Noone wants Rivers.
broncofan7
04-24-2008, 08:31 AM
If we pass on Mendenahll and Stewart for Rivers ala passing on Steven Jackson for DJ--I will be very upset. I feel as though LB is actually a position where we have some depth--if we were to draft OL instead of RB--now that can be rationalized---WLB? not so much.....
footstepsfrom#27
04-24-2008, 08:37 AM
If we pass on Mendenahll and Stewart for Rivers ala passing on Steven Jackson for DJ--I will be very upset. I feel as though LB is actually a position where we have some depth--if we were to draft OL instead of RB--now that can be rationalized---WLB? not so much.....
Depth? We don't even have starters, let alone depth...unless you're sure Boss Bailey will sudenly become what he was supposed to be AND Koutawhatever suddenly becomes a legit starter instead of a backup castoff...and even if both those things happen...a two-fer that's unlikely...where's the depth you speak of behind them? That said, Rivers is not the answer. I'd be happy with Mayo or the PSU kid either in the late 1st if we could get up that high by trading our 2nd or if one of them fell to us at 42. But drafting an undersized speed LB at a position where we already have a guy we know has performed there...that's just idiotic. The other possibility might be D. Jackson...that would be a major mistake too.
BroncoInferno
04-24-2008, 08:38 AM
I don't want Rivers, but Vernon is going to be a good TE. He had 52 grabs last season playing on an awful offense with an awful QB. Someone has to get him the ball.
Beantown Bronco
04-24-2008, 08:42 AM
Depth? We don't even have starters, let alone depth...unless you're sure Boss Bailey will sudenly become what he was supposed to be AND Koutawhatever suddenly becomes a legit starter instead of a backup castoff...and even if both those things happen...a two-fer that's unlikely...where's the depth you speak of behind them?
To answer for him, I'd say Winborn and Webster are two pretty damn good guys to have as depth. Both have solid knowledge of the system and significant starting experience. They aren't top 10 in the league, but what team does have a top 10 player as a backup? Hence the term "backup".
footstepsfrom#27
04-24-2008, 08:48 AM
To answer for him, I'd say Winborn and Webster are two pretty damn good guys to have as depth. Both have solid knowledge of the system and significant starting experience. They aren't top 10 in the league, but what team does have a top 10 player as a backup? Hence the term "backup".
Our LB's stunk last year and the only change is DJ moving back to where he belongs and Ian Gold going bye bye...addition by subtraction I guess...but Webster and Winborn don't really impress me. We need at least one, maybe two more talented guys in this unit depending on how Bailey does. That has to take a backseat to fixing the O-line IMO but if we could snag a sleeper somewhere in this draft on the second day it would be nice. Short of taking two O-line guys for our first two picks, taking a LB in the 2nd would be nice...
Beantown Bronco
04-24-2008, 08:54 AM
Our LB's stunk last year and the only change is DJ moving back to where he belongs and Ian Gold going bye bye....
The "only" change? Considering at least 2 out of the 3 starting LBs will be new to the team, this statement couldn't be more inaccurate.
BroncoInferno
04-24-2008, 09:30 AM
Our LB's stunk last year and the only change is DJ moving back to where he belongs and Ian Gold going bye bye...addition by subtraction I guess...but Webster and Winborn don't really impress me. We need at least one, maybe two more talented guys in this unit depending on how Bailey does. That has to take a backseat to fixing the O-line IMO but if we could snag a sleeper somewhere in this draft on the second day it would be nice. Short of taking two O-line guys for our first two picks, taking a LB in the 2nd would be nice...
Boss isn't anything special, but he's OK and got a 5 year contract, so he is the starting SSLB like it or not and we won't be drafting for that position. There is a chance we might go MLB in the 2nd, but it looks like they are going to role the dice with Niko and have Webster as plan B. Whether or not you like it is immaterial. I'm sure we'll pick a LB at some point--for special teams if nothing else--but probably not until the second day.
kamakazi_kal
04-24-2008, 12:30 PM
Way too early? Not at all. True, you could argue the Kellen Winslow argument that his results are more linked to his circumstances than anything else. However after two years he looks pretty average at best. You can say more time might help and that writing him off is a bit premature - "way too early" after two years doesn't work, though.
a decent qb would help him out alot.
Kaylore
04-24-2008, 12:47 PM
Since everyone has got their panties in a bunch about me ripping on VD, I'll just say this: I think the guy is a workout warrior but I have yet to see that be translated into field production. I totally agree his Utarded QB is a big reason he hasn't had many chances. However Tony G put up great numbers coming in with marginal QB's. Vernon needs to start producing or he's a bust.
DivineLegion
04-24-2008, 12:50 PM
best Linebacker in the draft is going in the second round...Ezra Butler
Old Dude
04-24-2008, 02:13 PM
I don't think we need any linebackers in this draft.
Nate Webster has looked pretty good as a backup, so I say we move DJ to the middle, where his natural athleticism can be used to its full extent. And we should re-sign Ian Gold for the other side. Just imagine all that speed and hustle on the field.
True, we might be a little undersized in the middle, but we should be able to find a big plug-ugly like Adams, maybe, to stuff that stuff completely up. Plus whatever other big fat body we can find.
That would allow us to spread our DEs wide, where they'd have an improved angle on the pass rush, and that would force opposing QBs to throw right into the strength of our defense, where Champ and Bly would be intercepting passes left and right.
Old Dude
04-24-2008, 02:14 PM
Okay, wait a minute. Never mind.
Kaylore
04-24-2008, 02:57 PM
Okay, wait a minute. Never mind.
Ha!
DB_champ24
04-24-2008, 04:02 PM
best Linebacker in the draft is going in the second round...Ezra Butler
Haha thats crazy you say that because I saw him last weekened in Newberry Park at a training facility. My friend knows him from football(We all went to the same HS) and we were talking about him getting drafted...Hes really fast for how big he is but he told us that the scouts wanted him down to 240 (hes like 245)..I like him too but I doubt he goes in the 2nd round, I'd say the 3rd round because of his hamstring injury over Combine weekened, even though its healed now.
Kaylore
04-25-2008, 01:23 AM
I thought Ezra Butler was a defensive end...
elsid13
04-25-2008, 04:18 AM
I don't think we need any linebackers in this draft.
Nate Webster has looked pretty good as a backup, so I say we move DJ to the middle, where his natural athleticism can be used to its full extent. And we should re-sign Ian Gold for the other side. Just imagine all that speed and hustle on the field.
True, we might be a little undersized in the middle, but we should be able to find a big plug-ugly like Adams, maybe, to stuff that stuff completely up. Plus whatever other big fat body we can find.
That would allow us to spread our DEs wide, where they'd have an improved angle on the pass rush, and that would force opposing QBs to throw right into the strength of our defense, where Champ and Bly would be intercepting passes left and right.
I think grandpa wander out of the retirement home again. :approve: