Vikings Chefs make the trade for Mr. DUI

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

on NFL network right now on the ticker

[rovolution]

Cutler will put up huge #'s on this team.



I have already proclaimed Cutler the Kansas City Killer and this name will endure for many more years to come.

[BroncoMan4ever]

what did they trade for him

[spdirty]

Long Live King Carl!!!!!!!

[no-pseudo-fan]

What did they get?

[brncs_fan]

Sweet! ^5

The Chiefs _efense returns

[CBF1]

LMAO, atleast they have a great offensive line left........... errrrr wait, that is long gone as well :)

[CHANGSTER]

Hey chef fans, whats the word on what they got for him?

[24champ]

Gotta love the 20-30 year plan King Carl has implemented in Krap City.

[ohiobronco2]

I don't think compensation has been announced yet.

[sixtimeseight]

Wow, their draft pick just went from #5 this year to #1 next year. I honestly can't see that team winning more than 2 games.

Looks like they're on the San Diego plan for assembling a winning team, pick in the top ten five years in a row.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

what did they trade for him

ticker hasn't updated yet. if carl is as smart as bob it'll be for a 2nd and a case of jd.

[bpc]

God i'm hoping for another couple Ryan Simms type picks. :)

[montrose]

what did they trade for him

The compensation they had been rumoring in recent days was the Vikings 1st and either their 3rd this year or a 2nd next year. Not sure what package KC went for.

As for laughing at the Chiefs, I hate to say it but they made the right move guys. They, like the Broncos, won't be making a Super Bowl run during the next 1-2 years as the gap between NE, Indy and SD (let alone Pit and Jax) is too great to make up in that time. Two years from now, Jared Allen is highly unlikely to be putting up the same production he is now and will be counting much more against the cap. Instead of getting the guy back on a 1 year tender and watching him walk, bringing him back on a 1 year tender and giving him a big deal next year or giving him a big deal now, the Chiefs get some valuable assets for him that they hope will be coming into their prime in a few seasons when the teams currently at the top of the AFC would be coming down.

[SoCalBronco]

It's a 1st and two 3rds per NFLN.

Very good deal for the Chiefs.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

updated 1st and 2x3rd this year. thats all.

[jayman_37]

I agree with Montrose I think that this is actually good for the chiefs. They are beginning to try and build around a young core that they can assemble through the draft now. This also helps them save the money that you have to pay a top notch DE in the league.

They could draft two linemen in the first round or if Ryan falls to them they can take him and still get a good OT in the first round and possibly early in the second. Then in the second round they could look at Hardy if he is still around. That would significantly upgrade their offense with one or maybe two OL in the first and another WR in the second to go with Bowe. They would be pretty good in a year or two.

[ohiobronco2]

The compensation they had been rumoring in recent days was the Vikings 1st and either their 3rd this year or a 2nd next year. Not sure what package KC went for.

As for laughing at the Chiefs, I hate to say it but they made the right move guys. They, like the Broncos, won't be making a Super Bowl run during the next 1-2 years as the gap between NE, Indy and SD (let alone Pit and Jax) is too great to make up in that time. Two years from now, Jared Allen is highly unlikely to be putting up the same production he is now and will be counting much more against the cap. Instead of getting the guy back on a 1 year tender and watching him walk, bringing him back on a 1 year tender and giving him a big deal next year or giving him a big deal now, the Chiefs get some valuable assets for him that they hope will be coming into their prime in a few seasons when the teams currently at the top of the AFC would be coming down.

Exactly. They did make the right move. Is Allen an amazing player, sure, but he is one DUI away from a year long suspension and Carl pretty much ensured that Allen would never play for the Chiefs because he most likely was giving him a low ball offer. I would worry if it was anybody other than Carl making the draft selections, but the Chiefs made the right move and with some luck could get a pretty solid core out of this draft.

[SoDak Bronco]

they get one of our 3rd rounders from the marcus thomas trade

[SoDak Bronco]

we will see in a few years but the chefs have a lot of pressure on this years rookie class...

[TheDave]

I respect the opinion of my fellow draftniks here...BUT... I don't care what they get in return. The cheifs will spend the next 10 years trying to replace him. You do not give up one of the better pass rushers in the game for a #1 and 2 #3's. There are certian positions on the field you do not give up on. Pro-Bowl DE's in their prime are close to the top of that list.

Just as we laughed at the people suggesting that we trade Champ this is just as laughable.

[cutthemdown]

It's a 1st and two 3rds per NFLN.

Very good deal for the Chiefs.

As long as you find a really good player with at least one of the picks.

[SoCalBronco]

I respect the opinion of my fellow draftniks here...BUT... I don't care what they get in return. The cheifs will spend the next 10 years trying to replace him. You do not give up one of the better pass rushers in the game for a #1 and 2 #3's. There are certian positions on the field you do not give up on. Pro-Bowl DE's in their prime are close to the top of that list.

Just as we laughed at the people suggesting that we trade Champ this is just as laughable.

Would you still hold this position if they got Bea Arthur with the Vikings first rounder? In that case, the two extra 3rds would just be gravy.

[jayman_37]

I respect the opinion of my fellow draftniks here...BUT... I don't care what they get in return. The cheifs will spend the next 10 years trying to replace him. You do not give up one of the better pass rushers in the game for a #1 and 2 #3's. There are certian positions on the field you do not give up on. Pro-Bowl DE's in their prime are close to the top of that list.

Just as we laughed at the people suggesting that we trade Champ this is just as laughable.

What money would they be spending on a guy that has a couple strikes against him already with the dui's?

Didn't Freeney get over 10 mil a year? Thats a lotta change on a guy with questionable character.

[TheDave]

Would you still hold this position if they got Bea Arthur with the Vikings first rounder? In that case, the two extra 3rds would just be gravy.

Now if the vikes were really throwing Bea into the mix then this trade beats out the Herschel Walker deal as the greatest rape job in NFL history. :thumbsup:

[Popcorn Sutton]

I guess I don't understand why they pay LJ the big bucks last year and let one of the best pass rushers in the NFL go. Runningbacks aren't a dime a dozen but they are certainly easier to find than pass rushers like Jared Allen.... I don't know. I think it's smart to load up on young talent but if they don't hit on the draft picks they received from Minny then they lost out big. Jared Allen is a STUD, even on the sauce. He also fit in so well with his mullet.

[watermock]

they don't call 'em Hornheads for nuttin'...A 1st and 2 3rds...UGH

[rovolution]

The compensation they had been rumoring in recent days was the Vikings 1st and either their 3rd this year or a 2nd next year. Not sure what package KC went for.

As for laughing at the Chiefs, I hate to say it but they made the right move guys. They, like the Broncos, won't be making a Super Bowl run during the next 1-2 years as the gap between NE, Indy and SD (let alone Pit and Jax) is too great to make up in that time. Two years from now, Jared Allen is highly unlikely to be putting up the same production he is now and will be counting much more against the cap. Instead of getting the guy back on a 1 year tender and watching him walk, bringing him back on a 1 year tender and giving him a big deal next year or giving him a big deal now, the Chiefs get some valuable assets for him that they hope will be coming into their prime in a few seasons when the teams currently at the top of the AFC would be coming down.

But the GM must make the right picks for a Dynasty to be created.

Jimmy Johnson made the right moves from the Hershel Walker trade and it worked incredibly well.


Charlie Casserly, however, with the bounty of selections he got from the Ricky Williams trade in 1999, did absolutely nothing for the Redskins because the players chosen were either terrible or left(ie Champ to us).

[TheDave]

What money would they be spending on a guy that has a couple strikes against him already with the dui's?

Didn't Freeney get over 10 mil a year? Thats a lotta change on a guy with questionable character.

From what i have seen he seems to have cleaned uop his act... The vikings sure think so.

[Broncojef]

At least Chef fans can be excited at all the young talent they will be stockpiling and IMO they are now headed in the right direction. They were going nowhere fast with Allen and it was the right move, whether hes a Pro-Bowler or not. I think the Chefs saw the error in their ways after the LJ fiasco this last year, that coupled with their lack of talent and ominous outlook to the pending season most likely lead to this trade. As a Bronco fan sure we can smile for a year or two when we play them but this was simply the right move, kudos to them for pulling the trigger.

[400HZ]

they don't call 'em Hornheads for nuttin'...A 1st and 2 3rds...UGH

I'd be pretty stoked if I was a Vikings fan. Instead of Phillip Merling, they get Jared Allen and have to give up a couple 3rds. Big whoop. Their D is going to be nasty next year.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

This is the best thing Carl has ever done. We have 13 picks this year and six in the first three rounds.

Either the Chiefs build a monster team with all this talent or Herm and Carl get run out of town for blowing this draft.

[400HZ]

This is the best thing Carl has ever done. We have 13 picks this year and six in the first three rounds.

Either the Chiefs build a monster team with all this talent or Herm and Carl get run out of town for blowing this draft.

http://www.geocities.com/mattiene/SEESAW.jpg

[theAPAOps5]

13 picks is a lot. But I expect the Chorfs to **** it up.

[ohiobronco2]

This is the best thing Carl has ever done. We have 13 picks this year and six in the first three rounds.

Either the Chiefs build a monster team with all this talent or Herm and Carl get run out of town for blowing this draft.

If your ownership had any sense, they would both have been gone a long time ago.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

.

Either the Chiefs build a monster team with all this talent or Herm and Carl get run out of town for blowing this draft.

I hope that never happens.

[TheDave]

I'd be pretty stoked if I was a Vikings fan. Instead of Phillip Merling, they get Jared Allen and have to give up a couple 3rds. Big whoop. Their D is going to be nasty next year.


I'm absolutely shocked that people can't see that. If the vikings had a QB they would be the odds on favorite in the NFC

[CHANGSTER]

All Mock drafts are now obsolete

[worm]

I'm absolutely shocked that people can't see that. If the vikings had a QB they would be the odds on favorite in the NFC

We will see how many game 'All Broke' plays next year.

[SoDak Bronco]

i hope kc picks matt ryan at 5...muahuauhauhuahuaha

[TheDave]

i hope kc picks matt ryan at 5...muahuauhauhuahuaha

There is no reason they shouldn't... As of right now they are one of the front runners for the #1 pick next year.

[rugbythug]

Now they can use those picks on players that are not as good as Jared Allen.

[broncos-rock]

This is the best thing Carl has ever done. We have 13 picks this year and six in the first three rounds.

Either the Chiefs build a monster team with all this talent or Herm and Carl get run out of town for blowing this draft.

You give up on a known talent for the unknown?????

[SoDak Bronco]

You give up on a known talent for the unknown?????

allen wouldn't have resigned, so they turned that into a 1st and 2 3rds. This is a great deal for the chefs, now lets see what herm and carl manage to screw up. I hope they go Matt Ryan at #5 and then at #17 how about phillip merling.

[Kaylore]

Allen is a known commodity and a young one. I don't agree with this move since a pick isn't a sure thing. The point of picks is to get good players and then sign them to long term deals. We must therefore assume that Carl was never going to keep Allen on the team. If Allen wasn't going to stay, then that redeems it a bit. C-

That said, if what they acquired for Allen is true, then I agree that they got pretty good value for him. A+

However given that this first round draft class is incredibly weak, I must dock them points. Overall score B-.

Now they have to hit on their picks or this will become one of the worst moves in Franchise history. Here's to hoping it is! ;) :chefstink

[Kaylore]

they don't call 'em Hornheads for nuttin'...A 1st and 2 3rds...UGH

The Chiefs pwnt that one. Congratulation to the Mullets for trading one Mullet for three more!.

[boltaneer]

Good deal for the Chiefs since they've thrown in the towel for the next 3-4 years anyway.

Good deal for the Vikings as well. Allen is most likely better than the DEs in this year's draft and they essentially only give up a couple of third round picks to get a player better than any of those rookies.

And great news for all the QBs in the AFC West (aside from Croyle).

Everybody wins!





(But the Chiefs will be the losers next week when Carl and Herm screw up the draft.)

[worm]

So the G-men show us how important it is to be able to rush the passer.....and the Chief promptly trade away their one player capable of doing that.

Brilliant!

Cutler should have Carl on his Xmas card list.

[tsiguy96]

chiefs made out like bandits on this one. allen was NOT going to re-sign there next year.

[kmartin575]

So the G-men show us how important it is to be able to rush the passer.....and the Chief promptly trade away their one player capable of doing that.

Brilliant!

Cutler should have Carl on his Xmas card list.

The Chiefs are going to suck the next couple of years anyways. Why should we sign a player to a $70 million contracts when the other holes on the team outweigh the benefit of having Allen?

[broncofan2438]

Well, we don't have to deal with him anymore

[Zanders76]

Woah. I was worried Marshal was traded.
Great deal for the Chiefs. They are rebuilding and they couldn't absorb that much contract in such a short amount of time. Good draft to do it in as well. This will affect who they take w/ their first pick as well.

[kmartin575]

Woah. I was worried Marshal was traded.
Great deal for the Chiefs. They are rebuilding and they couldn't absorb that much contract in such a short amount of time. Good draft to do it in as well. This will affect who they take w/ their first pick as well.

It shouldn't affect who we take with our first pick IMO. We have so many holes that it would be stupid to reach for a defensive end at the #5 pick and ignore a better player. I would be fine with taking Chris Long if he fell (that would piss off Raider fans SOOOO much, I would love it) but I think Vernon Gholston is too raw and I would not like that pick.

We should really be concentrating on taking the BPA for most of the draft.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Darkhorse prediction: The Chiefs wanted to acquire the 17th pick to trade to Cleveland for QB Derek Anderson.

[boltaneer]

As long as the Chiefs pass on Matt Ryan and Brohm and stick with Croyle, I'll be pleased.

I bet Donnie Edwards is loving the decision he made to go back to KC...

[boltaneer]

Darkhorse prediction: The Chiefs wanted to acquire the 17th pick to trade to Cleveland for QB Derek Anderson.

There's no way the Browns are trading Anderson after giving him $13.5 million guaranteed. They would be taking an incredible cap hit. If they really wanted to get rid of him they could have made him sign his one year tender a while back and then work out a trade.

[SouthStndJunkie]

There's no way the Browns are trading Anderson after giving him $13.5 million guaranteed. They would be taking an incredible cap hit. If they really wanted to get rid of him they could have made him sign his one year tender a while back and then work out a trade.

I thought they delayed the actual payment of the bonus until after the draft in case they made a trade....I could be wrong, but I thought I read something about that.

Actually....think I am wrong on that. They made a large portion of it a 2009 roster bonus.

[boltaneer]

I thought they delayed the actual payment of the bonus until after the draft in case they made a trade....I could be wrong, but I thought I read something about that.

Whether the payment has actually already been made or not, Anderson has already signed the contract so there's no getting out of it now.

I get the feeling they're going after a quarterback with one of thier two 1st round picks now but hopefully King Carl decides to go with Brodie.

[Rausch 2.0]

Woah. I was worried Marshal was traded.
Great deal for the Chiefs. They are rebuilding and they couldn't absorb that much contract in such a short amount of time. Good draft to do it in as well. This will affect who they take w/ their first pick as well.

If the conditions were right KC could finish round one with three picks. I doubt Carl has the balls for it, but the picks are there to move up.

That's friggen Madden VG territory...

[Rausch 2.0]

Darkhorse prediction: The Chiefs wanted to acquire the 17th pick to trade to Cleveland for QB Derek Anderson.

Anderson doesn't play for San Fran or the Lambs and he isn't a b/u.

Nice try though...

[SouthStndJunkie]

There's no way the Browns are trading Anderson after giving him $13.5 million guaranteed. They would be taking an incredible cap hit. If they really wanted to get rid of him they could have made him sign his one year tender a while back and then work out a trade.

I think the signing bonus is 7 million with a 5 million roster bonus for 2009.

[KCStud]

KC got the better end of this deal. If this was any other team, the terms would have been a 1st and only one 3rd. The Vikings are desperate for a DE tho and we raped them for another 3rd.

If KC gets a dominant defensive lineman like Dorsey, Long, Ellis, Harvey(yes I think he's gonna be good) or Gholston I will be happy.

I could see KC taking an OT like Gosder Cherilous or Jeff Otah at 17, then a good CB like Cason or Flowers at 35.

KC basically has 3 first round picks.

[Rausch 2.0]

I think the signing bonus is 7 million with a 5 million roster bonus for 2009.

Making him easily tradable after this year...

[Kaylore]

KC basically has 3 first round picks.
No. Pick 35 is a second round pick.

[cutthemdown]

KC got the better end of this deal. If this was any other team, the terms would have been a 1st and only one 3rd. The Vikings are desperate for a DE tho and we raped them for another 3rd.

If KC gets a dominant defensive lineman like Dorsey, Long, Ellis, Harvey(yes I think he's gonna be good) or Gholston I will be happy.

I could see KC taking an OT like Gosder Cherilous or Jeff Otah at 17, then a good CB like Cason or Flowers at 35.

KC basically has 3 first round picks.

I guess it's good but aren't you trying to find players that are good. Why trade young good ones for even 3 picks. I guess it's good until you take the 3 players one gets hurt, one is avg, and the next one if good wants to be paid just like the one you traded.

Why not just pay and keep the ones who get 15.5 sacks?

[TheReverend]

It shouldn't affect who we take with our first pick IMO. We have so many holes that it would be stupid to reach for a defensive end at the #5 pick and ignore a better player. I would be fine with taking Chris Long if he fell (that would piss off Raider fans SOOOO much, I would love it) but I think Vernon Gholston is too raw and I would not like that pick.

We should really be concentrating on taking the BPA for most of the draft.

Isn't it pretty obvious that this is just ammo to move ahead of Atlanta so Matt Ryan can be a Chief?

Oh glorious day!

A ****ty team unloads their only player AND Champ and Elvis get a new toy to play with!!!!!!! Ha! Ha! Ha!

[chickennob2]

So, now to replace him, they pick Gholston at number 5. How is this a good deal? You have on one hand Jared Allen, #5 overall vs Gholston, #17, and 2 3rds. I like the look of that first group a lot better. The number 5 pick will still get a huge contract, so that can't be the issue. And you cna only hope, if everything goes perfectly, that Gholston becomes the kind of player that Allen is. Your best case secnario is that they are the same caliber of player. Worst case, you crippled your franchise.

Any day of the week I would take Allen, #5 over Allen's Rookie Replacement, #17, and 2 3rds.

[kmartin575]

No. Pick 35 is a second round pick.

Well no ****. But it is pretty damn close to the 1st round.

[kmartin575]

Isn't it pretty obvious that this is just ammo to move ahead of Atlanta so Matt Ryan can be a Chief?

Oh glorious day!

A ****ty team unloads their only player AND Champ and Elvis get a new toy to play with!!!!!!! Ha! Ha! Ha!

I doubt Atlanta even takes Matt Ryan. Chiefs aren't trading up for anybody. If anything we will trade down for even more picks.

[TheReverend]

I doubt Atlanta even takes Matt Ryan. Chiefs aren't trading up for anybody. If anything we will trade down for even more picks.

Color me unconvinced.

Pick #2= 2600 pts
Pick #5= 1700 pts
Pick #17= 950 pts

2650 to 2600.

Goodell: "With the #2 pick, the Kansas City Chiefs, Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards continues to destroy a once potent offense."

[boltaneer]

I don't understand why Chief fans don't want to draft a quarterback. I know Ryan and Brohm aren't really regarded very highly by a lot of pundits but why go through a complete rebuilding phase with a journeyman and a guy who looks like he'll never amount to anything? Why not try to get a franchise type QB?

And it's way early to be looking at future drafts but I've heard the pundits say that the QB class doesn't look good for the next couple of years as well.

[kmartin575]

I don't understand why Chief fans don't want to draft a quarterback. I know Ryan and Brohm aren't really regarded very highly by a lot of pundits but why go through a complete rebuilding phase with a journeyman and a guy who looks like he'll never amount to anything? Why not try to get a franchise type QB?

And it's way early to be looking at future drafts but I've heard the pundits say that the QB class doesn't look good for the next couple of years as well.

Don't group me in with that group. I would love to take Ryan. The Chiefs have so many holes that there are very few players I would be unhappy with. As long as we don't make a big reach and as long as we don't take Darren McFadden I am probably happy with whoever we take.

[kmartin575]

Color me unconvinced.

Pick #2= 2600 pts
Pick #5= 1700 pts
Pick #17= 950 pts

2650 to 2600.

Goodell: "With the #2 pick, the Kansas City Chiefs, Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards continues to destroy a once potent offense."

Whatever. I guarantee the Chiefs are not trading up.

[KCStud]

No. Pick 35 is a second round pick.

usually 32 picks minus 1 is with a deep draft means that there is going to be 1st round quality players there.

It's happened lots of times. Teams getting players early in round 2 that are first round caliber. See Demeco Ryans and Aaron Sears

[KCStud]

I don't understand why Chief fans don't want to draft a quarterback. I know Ryan and Brohm aren't really regarded very highly by a lot of pundits but why go through a complete rebuilding phase with a journeyman and a guy who looks like he'll never amount to anything? Why not try to get a franchise type QB?

And it's way early to be looking at future drafts but I've heard the pundits say that the QB class doesn't look good for the next couple of years as well.

Because Brodie never got a decent chance. He was sacked 17 times in 7 whole games and few action in others. That's more than 2 sacks a game and that's with a mobile QB.

Drafting Ryan would be pointless IMO. He would be the next punching bag back there. Croyle's size is concerning, but when you see a veteran QB that wieghs about 15 more lbs than Croyle getting hurt out there you know it's your OL.

Ryan is also an overrated QB. I would take Brodie's arm and accuracy anyday. Ryan is an INT machine and he has a weak arm. He is a similar prospect to Kyle Boller IMO

[KCStud]

wow Jared Allen is going to get 31,000,069 in guaranteed money from the Vikings. They are using a huge chunk of their cap on a player who could be suspended for a season with only one slip

KC looks to have got the better end of this deal, especailly if they get a DE from the draft that can get 9-12 sacks

[eddie mac]

Isn't amazing how all these Chief fans love the deal now Jared has actually been dealt and King Carl is this Super Genius who's managed to get 13 draft picks in 2008 yet when it was rumoured throughout the offseason including a swap with the Vikes with McKinnie involved and their 1st rounder, then a 1st and 2nd rounder the Sky was falling and Carl was an idiot.

Then we hear all this stuff about Allen wouldn't re-sign and that he's one mistake away from a 1 year ban etc, etc.

The Chorfs just dealt the best DE in football not because Allen didn't want to stay in KC but because that dickhead Peterson didn't want to pay him. Sad really.

[elsid13]

Isn't amazing how all these Chief fans love the deal now Jared has actually been dealt and King Carl is this Super Genius who's managed to get 13 draft picks in 2008 yet when it was rumoured throughout the offseason including a swap with the Vikes with McKinnie involved and their 1st rounder, then a 1st and 2nd rounder the Sky was falling and Carl was an idiot.

Then we hear all this stuff about Allen wouldn't re-sign and that he's one mistake away from a 1 year ban etc, etc.

The Chorfs just dealt the best DE in football not because Allen didn't want to stay in KC but because that dickhead Peterson didn't want to pay him. Sad really.

That truth of it. And I still thinking the Viking overpaid.

[TheReverend]

usually 32 picks minus 1 is with a deep draft means that there is going to be 1st round quality players there.

It's happened lots of times. Teams getting players early in round 2 that are first round caliber. See Demeco Ryans and Aaron Sears

In that case we can extend our first round into the fourth round and have 4 first round picks without trading down! See Brandon Marshall and Elvis Dumervil.

[cutthemdown]

It's just so hard to find pass rushers. Cheifs got a really good deal though i do agree with that. You can't expect more then a 1st and 2 3rds for Allen. I just don't like trading great players for only draft picks. I like getting a good player and a pick, something like that. Rookies you just don't know about. You might draft 2-3 DE in the first round before you find one as good as Allen.

[eddie mac]

Isn't amazing how all these Chief fans love the deal now Jared has actually been dealt and King Carl is this Super Genius who's managed to get 13 draft picks in 2008 yet when it was rumoured throughout the offseason including a swap with the Vikes with McKinnie involved and their 1st rounder, then a 1st and 2nd rounder the Sky was falling and Carl was an idiot.

Then we hear all this stuff about Allen wouldn't re-sign and that he's one mistake away from a 1 year ban etc, etc.

The Chorfs just dealt the best DE in football not because Allen didn't want to stay in KC but because that dickhead Peterson didn't want to pay him. Sad really.

That truth of it. And I still thinking the Viking overpaid.

Personally I dont think they overpaid. When you add that 17th pick and the two 3rd rounders that wont even guarantee a selection of the 3rd best DE in this draft (Harvey). Sure you can say that they may well land C Long or Gholston at 5 but if they hadn't traded Allen that 5th pick would've been used on a far bigger need (OT/QB/DT). Allen IMHO was and is the best all around DE in this league, forget your overpaid one dimensional DE's like Freeney or Mr Nowhere near the same production Peppers.

[eddie mac]

wow Jared Allen is going to get 31,000,069 in guaranteed money from the Vikings. They are using a huge chunk of their cap on a player who could be suspended for a season with only one slip

KC looks to have got the better end of this deal, especailly if they get a DE from the draft that can get 9-12 sacks

Another thing KC Fans need to bear in mind is regardless of what your twat for a GM think's he's saved his team in money by not giving Allen that same deal he still has to spend 90% of this year's cap on some other bums in the same uniforms with 1/4 of the talent.:D

[Beantown Bronco]

The Chiefs are going to suck the next couple of years anyways. Why should we sign a player to a $70 million contracts when the other holes on the team outweigh the benefit of having Allen?

They should've asked themselves that last year when the same scenario presented itself with Larry Johnson.

[Killericon]

Vikings now have the best D-Line in Football. Look out(Oh no! Tavaris Jackson is coming for us!).

[Beantown Bronco]

wow Jared Allen is going to get 31,000,069 in guaranteed money from the Vikings. They are using a huge chunk of their cap on a player who could be suspended for a season with only one slip

As if they are not going to protect themselves from just that in the terms of the contract.

[Beantown Bronco]

Because Brodie never got a decent chance. He was sacked 17 times in 7 whole games and few action in others. That's more than 2 sacks a game and that's with a mobile QB.

And what exactly have the Chefs done to correct this problem this off season? NOTHING. And nothing they do in the draft will correct it this season either, because the only OLineman with a chance of stepping in from day one and improving a unit is already signed to Miami.

Enjoy another year of Brodie eating turf.

Ryan is also an overrated QB. I would take Brodie's arm and accuracy anyday. Ryan is an INT machine and he has a weak arm. He is a similar prospect to Kyle Boller IMO

You couldn't be more wrong. Ryan and Boller have very different scouting reports. Weak arm? Boller's #1 strength coming out according to every scout I read was his arm strength. In one of his workouts leading up to the draft, he got down on one knee from the 50 yard line and threw the ball through the goal posts to demonstrate it.

[Kaylore]

usually 32 picks minus 1 is with a deep draft means that there is going to be 1st round quality players there.

It's happened lots of times. Teams getting players early in round 2 that are first round caliber. See Demeco Ryans and Aaron Sears

This isn't a deep draft especially in the first round. This is widely considered one of the crappiest first rounds in some time. Basically you have a middle of the road first round pick and two second rounds picks if you want to argue the quality angle of it.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

This isn't a deep draft especially in the first round.

It's one of the deepest drafts overall in quite some time. 47 juniors came out.

[eddie mac]

This isn't a deep draft especially in the first round. This is widely considered one of the crappiest first rounds in some time. Basically you have a middle of the road first round pick and two second rounds picks if you want to argue the quality angle of it.

From what I've read from most experts in the lead up to this draft is that there isn't a lot of difference between the 2nd part of the first round and the whole second round. So if you look at it that way pick 17 is just a 2nd rounder.:D

[Bronco Jamus]

It's one of the deepest drafts overall in quite some time. 47 juniors came out.

The 05 draft was the deepest in years and this one doesn't even come close.

[eddie mac]

It's one of the deepest drafts overall in quite some time. 47 juniors came out.
Deep as in terms of numbers, woeful as in terms of blue chippers. Not one receiver or CB has a true first round grade. They have to be graded there due to team needs.

I actually wouldn't put one CB or WR in the top 15 players in this draft.

They are

QB: Ryan (Brohm/Henne huge drop-off)

RB: McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart ( Jones huge drop off)

WR: None (Sweed, Kelly, Hardy, Jackson, Thomas, all no better than 2nd rd talent)

TE: None (Davis, Keller, 2nd rounders)

OL: J Long, Albert, Clady, Williams, Otah(Borderline), (Cherilus, Baker-huge drop off)

DL: Dorsey, C Long, Ellis, Gholston, Harvey (Balmer-Merling, huge drop off)

LB: Rivers(borderline)-Connors/Mayo-huge drop-off

CB: None, (Jenkins, McKelvin, Rodgers-Cromartie, Talib all 2nd rd talent at best)

S: None, (T Johnson, Phillips, see CB's)

[TheReverend]

Deep as in terms of numbers, woeful as in terms of blue chippers. Not one receiver or CB has a true first round grade. They have to be graded there due to team needs.

I actually wouldn't put one CB or WR in the top 15 players in this draft.

They are

QB: Ryan (Brohm/Henne huge drop-off)

RB: McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart ( Jones huge drop off)

WR: None (Sweed, Kelly, Hardy, Jackson, Thomas, all no better than 2nd rd talent)

TE: None (Davis, Keller, 2nd rounders)

OL: J Long, Albert, Clady, Williams, Otah(Borderline), (Cherilus, Baker-huge drop off)

DL: Dorsey, C Long, Ellis, Gholston, Harvey (Balmer-Merling, huge drop off)

LB: Rivers(borderline)-Connors/Mayo-huge drop-off

CB: None, (Jenkins, McKelvin, Rodgers-Cromartie, Talib all 2nd rd talent at best)

S: None, (T Johnson, Phillips, see CB's)

I agree with most of this but McKelvin and Jenkins are genuine first round and very good players.

On a personal note, Rivers is a massive douche who has never taken over a game, and please god trade back or let connor fall to 42.

Edit: "Huge dropoff" is more than a little misleading... the talent level between most of these guys is either minute or by circumstance and being drafted early means more about a player getting more opportunities than being significantly better on the field.

[footstepsfrom#27]

This is the best thing Carl has ever done. We have 13 picks this year and six in the first three rounds.

Either the Chiefs build a monster team with all this talent or Herm and Carl get run out of town for blowing this draft.
At least one of 'em ought to be a quarterback.

[Northman]

Both teams made out but Allen was a legit DE so whether or not K.C can replace will remain to be seen.

[Kaylore]

wow Jared Allen is going to get 31,000,069 in guaranteed money from the Vikings. They are using a huge chunk of their cap on a player who could be suspended for a season with only one slip

:spit: My you really have turned a corner haven't you?

Shall we go back and review what you used to think before he was traded?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1691893&postcount=63
Allen has 27 sacks the last 3 years combined including 11 in 2005.

Dumerville is a good pass rusher, but from what I have seen the dude doesn't help much with the run.

Jared Allen is the complete package. He helps with run support and pass rushing. Tamba is the same way and it showed last year.

Hali had 6 Forced Fumbles and 5.5 tackles for loss which are just as good as sacks proving he is very disruptive in the backfield.
Allen is too. 11 tackles for loss and 3 Forced fumbles. Not to mention both had and INT as well.

Dumerville had 18 tackles in 13 games played. Not impressive at all.

I'll take the more complete DE

You'll probably go Redskin on him and start talking about how much he sucks now that he's traded.

[NW Bolt Fan]

2 ways to look at this deal:

1. (through KC shades) Allen was what, a 4th round pick, and nets a 1st, 3rd, 3rd... Pretty good deal.

2. (through everyone else's shades) Allen is one of the 3 best DE's in the game. He's in his prime. He played everydown, and played the run and the pass equally well. He COMPLETELY disrupted what other teams wanted to do. And don't think for a second his presence didn't make players like Tamba Hali look better. He must be replaced. Chris Long, Vernon Gholston? Is he as good as Allen is?

It could be a good move for the chefs. But only if BOTH their 1st rounders turn out to be very good, AND at least ONE of the 3rd rounders is solid at worst... Time will tell. They did get the potential for good return.

[NaptownChief]

I don't understand why Chief fans don't want to draft a quarterback.


I like Ryan a lot but wouldn't give the #5 pick and the big money that would come with it for him. I would sit tight and take Brohm or Flacco at the top of the second round. I would also try to work a deal with the Browns to get Brady Quinn with that second round pick. I would be willing to give that 2nd and a 3rd for Quinn if needed before I would take Ryan with the #5 pick. I like Quinn as much as Ryan and could probably be had cheaper and already a little more seasoned with a year of NFL clip board holding under his belt.

[NaptownChief]

BTW Henne is the one first day QB I wouldn't want any part of and hence he will likely be Peterson's guy. Being a Big Ten fan I have watched him a lot and he was solid but given the OLine protection he got and the weapons he had around him he was not that impressive. If you can't dominate when all the cards are stacked in your favor like they are at Michigan then I don't want to see how it would play out for him if he had to line up behind the mess that is currently the Chiefs franchise.

[NW Bolt Fan]

I like Ryan a lot but wouldn't give the #5 pick and the big money that would come with it for him. I would sit tight and take Brohm or Flacco at the top of the second round. I would also try to work a deal with the Browns to get Brady Quinn with that second round pick. I would be willing to give that 2nd and a 3rd for Quinn if needed before I would take Ryan with the #5 pick. I like Quinn as much as Ryan and could probably be had cheaper and already a little more seasoned with a year of NFL clip board holding under his belt.NO WAY the Browns deal Quinn for a 2nd. Pass the dutchie, brah.

[NaptownChief]

NO WAY the Browns deal Quinn for a 2nd. Pass the dutchie, brah.



Don't be so certain...There is no way they would have spent the 22nd pick on him last year if they would have known Anderson was going to workout. So I am quite sure they would like to reverse that decision for reasonable value.

And I did say possible 2nd and 3rd. Which given the draft pick value chart the Chiefs could give (the 35th pick = 550 points and the 66th pick = 260 points which is 810 points compared to the 780 points for the 22nd pick that Cleveland spent on him)

Hence the 2nd and 3rd would actually be more value than they spent and considering they would probably like a do over they would probably be estatic to get fair market value like that "brah"...


So how about you pass the dutchie?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

At least one of 'em ought to be a quarterback.

I think the Chiefs are going to give Croyle a year to see if he can stay healthy. If he can, he's got everything you want in an NFL QB. Arm strength, accuracy, mobility, smarts.

If he can't stay healthy they'll grab a QB next year.

[rugbythug]

I think the Chiefs are going to give Croyle a year to see if he can stay healthy. If he can, he's got everything you want in an NFL QB. Arm strength, accuracy, mobility, smarts.

If he can't stay healthy they'll grab a QB next year.

With the first pick in next years draft you will get whichever one you want.

[azbroncfan]

It's a 1st and two 3rds per NFLN.

Very good deal for the Chiefs.

Only if they take some real impact players. You don't trade a top player at his postion for potential. Chances are real good they won't take a player near as good as Allen. I see Chefs drafting the DE out of OSU now who will be lucky to be as good as Allen. Who knows what the thirds will turn into.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Don't be so certain...There is no way they would have spent the 22nd pick on him last year if they would have known Anderson was going to workout. So I am quite sure they would like to reverse that decision for reasonable value.

And I did say possible 2nd and 3rd. Which given the draft pick value chart the Chiefs could give (the 35th pick = 550 points and the 66th pick = 260 points which is 810 points compared to the 780 points for the 22nd pick that Cleveland spent on him)

Hence the 2nd and 3rd would actually be more value than they spent and considering they would probably like a do over they would probably be estatic to get fair market value like that "brah"...


So how about you pass the dutchie?Anderson signed a cap/team friendly deal with Cleve, based on a one year wonder performance. They already traded a viable back-up, if Quinn is gone what're they left with? I still say the ONLY way they move Quinn is for a 1st rounder- and even then they may balk. Aside from the fact that sitting in the NFL, learning a system, etc. doesn't detract from Quinn's value- it adds. Sure he doesn't have much game experience, but he did get all the practices, some pre-season, etc.

It's a nice pipe dream, but it's still derived from the maui wowi.

[NaptownChief]

You don't trade a top player at his postion for potential.


Ideally no...but when the relationship is damaged by your GM then you have to try and get the best value possible out of the player and I think the Chiefs did quite well.

[NaptownChief]

They already traded a viable back-up, if Quinn is gone what're they left with?


It is called the NFL Draft and it happens this weekend on ESPN in case you want to tune in.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Ideally no...but when the relationship is damaged by your GM then you have to try and get the best value possible out of the player and I think the Chiefs did quite well.Relationships are meant to be repaired... Except with an Ex. ;D I will say this, despite giving up a hell of a player, KC didn't get completely hosed in the deal, i.e. Washington with Bailey.

[NaptownChief]

I will say this, despite giving up a hell of a player, KC didn't get completely hosed in the deal.


Which is rare with Carl Peterson running the show.

[NW Bolt Fan]

It is called the NFL Draft and it happens this weekend on ESPN in case you want to tune in.So, dump a ton of money into a player, possibly a franchise player, then trade him a year later, blow your cap, only to pick another one... You and Carl have like philosophies.

[NaptownChief]

So, dump a ton of money into a player, possibly a franchise player, then trade him a year later, blow your cap, only to pick another one...


As opposed to dump a ton of money into a player, dump a ton more into another player and promise him the position while previous said player sits on the bench collecting ton of money and not contributing to the team winning.

Unlike your Bolts the Browns might roll with the proven vet rather than toss him aside to go with the unproven side armed throwing wasted pick. Oh wait a minute Quinn actually throws a nice ball.

But I see that you like following the Chargers mode of being too proud to admit you were wrong in drafting a QB in the first round and rather than correct the mistake you just try to live with it.

[Crushaholic]

The Wheel of Ineptitude continues to turn in KC. The only thing that could POSSIBLY make this better for them is if they were going to package some of their picks to get a veteran player.

[Spider]

the only chance the Chiefs have is lure Shanny from Denver ....other then that they are pretty much ****ed

[Spider]

LOL Crush those letters from Juan Epstein's Mom were classics

[kamakazi_kal]

I kinda feel bad for Tony Gonzales. Sorry dude, looks like it's time to go on dancing with the stars.

[Drek]

KC fans should be happy that the Vikes didn't just poison pill him.

'08 1st and 2 3rds is better than '09 and '10 1sts, especially when the Vikes are probably now going to be pretty good.

Bad move for the Vikes only because they could've given less if they poison pilled. Bad move for KC because this is going to buy Peterson another 3+ years while everyone "waits for the '08 class to pan out". In the end though one team overpaid to become highly competitive, the other is at the whim of a penny pinching, off-putting GM.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

The Wheel of Ineptitude continues to turn in KC. The only thing that could POSSIBLY make this better for them is if they were going to package some of their picks to get a veteran player.

In two years we will kick yo ass!

[NW Bolt Fan]

As opposed to dump a ton of money into a player, dump a ton more into another player and promise him the position while previous said player sits on the bench collecting ton of money and not contributing to the team winning.

Unlike your Bolts the Browns might roll with the proven vet rather than toss him aside to go with the unproven side armed throwing wasted pick. Oh wait a minute Quinn actually throws a nice ball.

But I see that you like following the Chargers mode of being too proud to admit you were wrong in drafting a QB in the first round and rather than correct the mistake you just try to live with it.Surely you see the irony in your post here considering this entire thread is devoted to Jared Allen being shipped. Hilarious! At least the Bolts had the player replacing Brees on their roster- for 2 years in fact, and had a plenty good idea of his superiority to the QB we let go... Lemme guess, you figure Brees is better than Rivers too. Right. If Cleveland knows Quinn is a bust, sure, by all means, fleece some team and move on. I don't believe he is, and I don't believe they think he is. If he's dealt, it's likely he didn't have the talent.

Too proud eh? Rivers has sorely disappointed. Gosh how I wish we'd kept the "proven" vet. Rivers, unlike Brees, doesn't need LT behind him to be successful. Even when Brees DID have LT, he coudlnt' manage the game.

[NaptownChief]

In two years we will kick yo ass!


It isn't like the Donks are a barn burner at the moment...might happen this year. For that matter it might be a head to head battle to settle who gets a top 5 pick in next years draft.

Both franchises are pretty poor at the moment only difference is one is in denile.

[snowtrx]

I think the Chiefs are going to give Croyle a year to see if he can stay healthy. If he can, he's got everything you want in an NFL QB. Arm strength, accuracy, mobility, smarts.

If he can't stay healthy they'll grab a QB next year.

At least you know the chiefs will be in position to take the best QB out of next years draft.....and the draft after that.........and the draft after that.

[NaptownChief]

Rivers, unlike Brees, doesn't need LT behind him to be successful.



We should check with your star RB to see if he considers Rivers "successful"....It sure doesn't look to be the case.

[Spider]

In two years we will kick yo ass!

If I was you , I would be focusing on getting laid in the next 2 years..........

[Kaylore]

It isn't like the Donks are a barn burner at the moment...might happen this year. For that matter it might be a head to head battle to settle who gets a top 5 pick in next years draft.

Both franchises are pretty poor at the moment only difference is one is in denile.

7-9 Vs. 4-12? And we kept our pro-bowl Defensive end and have a Quarterback that doesn't suck. You guys effectively hit the reset button. We're better and have youth on the team already. So, no I don't believe we're in the same state.

Silly Chief turds: Always obsessed with being as good as the Broncos.

[boltaneer]

It's one of the deepest drafts overall in quite some time. 47 juniors came out.

According to most people, this is not a deep draft. Supposedly teams are wanting to trade out of the latter third of the first round because there aren't enough players who warrant a first round grade. They would rather use second and third round picks on players with second and third round grades.

Carl has stockpiled 13 picks though so due to the boatload of picks that he has, odds are that he'll manage to find at least one good player with all those picks. :clown:

[Spider]

It isn't like the Donks are a barn burner at the moment...might happen this year. For that matter it might be a head to head battle to settle who gets a top 5 pick in next years draft.

Both franchises are pretty poor at the moment only difference is one is in denile.

Medication ?

[NW Bolt Fan]

We should check with your star RB to see if he considers Rivers "successful"....It sure doesn't look to be the case.I gather you "caught" the irony then. It's no secret LT is pals with Brees. I don't think Rivers' personality is probably real in line with the relatively soft spoken Tomlinson- however, there is no denying Rivers' success. The mere fact that they won a playoff game took them further than Brees ever did. In addition, they won, in large part because of Rivers' play- NOT Tomlinson's. The shining star in SD has to share some spotlight with the leadership position. With the exodus of Brees, we no longer live and die by LT's success. There's a QB who can, will, and does make teams pay that play the run too heavy.

It's part of the reason Philip is so hated here. He's good. Good enough to embarrass teams.

[BMF Bronco]

I think the Chiefs are going to give Croyle a year to see if he can stay healthy. If he can, he's got everything you want in an NFL QB. Arm strength, accuracy, mobility, smarts.

If he can't stay healthy they'll grab a QB next year.

You forgot to add wins in there, err, wait...

[Bob's your Information Minister]

We're better and have youth on the team already.

We have plenty of youth. Last I checked you still had a **** defense and an O-line sitting in tatters.

I say the Chiefs win a playoff game before the Broncos.

[NW Bolt Fan]

We have plenty of youth. Last I checked you still had a **** defense and an O-line sitting in tatters.

I say the Chiefs win a playoff game before the Broncos.Were you gonna bet that... ROFL!

[Atlas]

The Chiefs got a pretty fair price in the trade but Allen was the only playmaker on their defense. It's really going to be a long season for them.

[BMF Bronco]

We have plenty of youth. Last I checked you still had a **** defense and an O-line sitting in tatters.

I say the Chiefs win a playoff game before the Broncos.

I would make a bet with you on that, however we all know you track record for sticking to bets.

[Requiem]

Seriously, Christ. The Chiefs have a better set up than Atlanta almost. God damn I'd give anything for that.


Round 1, Pick 5 (5)
Round 1, Pick 17 (17) (From Vikings)
Round 2, Pick 4 (35)
Round 3, Pick 3 (66)
Round 3, Pick 10 (73) (From Broncos through Vikings)
Round 3, Pick 19 (82) (From Vikings)
Round 4, Pick 6 (105)
Round 5, Pick 1 (136) (From Dolphins)
Round 5, Pick 5 (140)
Round 6, Pick 4 (170)
Round 6, Pick 16 (182) (From Vikings)
Round 7, Pick 3 (210)
Round 7, Pick 32 (239) (From Giants)


Then here is our haul. . .


Round 1, Pick 12 (12)
Round 2, Pick 11 (42)
Round 4, Pick 9 (108)
Round 4, Pick 20 (119) (From Redskins)
Round 5, Pick 4 (139) (From Raiders)
Round 5, Pick 13 (148)
Round 6, Pick 17 (183) (From Texans)
Round 7, Pick 13 (220)
Round 7, Pick 20 (227) (From Buccaneers)


Get another third, and I'll be fine -- but dammit BOBO -- your team is gonna get hot.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

The Chiefs got a pretty fair price in the trade but Allen was the only playmaker on their defense.

Depends on your definition of playmaker I suppose. Tamba Hali had a good season and Derrick Johnson led the NFL in tackles for loss.

[no-pseudo-fan]

It all depends on drafting now for the Chiefs. Sometimes you have to go back to go forward.

[snowtrx]

Final verdict? Good job by the Chiefs getting a lot for a guy they where only going to have for one more year. Fortunatly (for us), they painted themselves into that corner by continuing to be a complete failure of an organization. :strong:

[KCStud]

:spit: My you really have turned a corner haven't you?

Shall we go back and review what you used to think before he was traded?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1691893&postcount=63


You'll probably go Redskin on him and start talking about how much he sucks now that he's traded.

Never said Allen was a bad player, but at that much money, I would take the pics. When teams can get good DE's like Dumerville and Mark Anderson later in the draft and have them put up good #'s, they look smart.

Like I said. If KC gets a DE out of this draft that can put up 9-12 sacks, then I think KC got the better end of the deal by far

[Atwater His Ass]

Highest paid defensive player in leauge history. 6 years, $74 million, $31 mil guarenteed.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8061676/Vikes,-Chiefs-make-blockbuster-deal-for-DE-Allen

[Bronx33]

they don't call 'em Hornheads for nuttin'...A 1st and 2 3rds...UGH


If anybody can f*** up a 1st and 2 3rds carl peterson can hes the right man for the job.

[Spider]

Never said Allen was a bad player, but at that much money, I would take the pics. When teams can get good DE's like Dumerville and Mark Anderson later in the draft and have them put up good #'s, they look smart.

Like I said. If KC gets a DE out of this draft that can put up 9-12 sacks, then I think KC got the better end of the deal by far

LOL . you come back ? thought after that double talk you laid out about measuring QB's you would have slunk off into the same hole you crawled out of

[Bronx33]

Depends on your definition of playmaker I suppose. Tamba Hali had a good season and Derrick Johnson led the NFL in tackles for loss.


Well sunshine defenses don't have to worry about allen anymore so iam sure adjustments will be made to take care of those two.

[KCStud]

7-9 Vs. 4-12? And we kept our pro-bowl Defensive end and have a Quarterback that doesn't suck. You guys effectively hit the reset button. We're better and have youth on the team already. So, no I don't believe we're in the same state.

Silly Chief turds: Always obsessed with being as good as the Broncos.

Broncos aren't that good of a team right now either. No real LT, old C that is past his prime, one real threat on the DL, average LB corps with only 1 good player and average safeties.

Denver hasn't done anything to try and fix the DL from being gashed by RB's. Dorsey and Ellis are about the only real DT's who could stop that problem but they will be gone

[NW Bolt Fan]

Depends on your definition of playmaker I suppose. Tamba Hali had a good season and Derrick Johnson led the NFL in tackles for loss.
Both a bi-product of Allen's play. If you dont' think so now, you'll get the proof following this season.

Edit*whoops. Point already made by Bronx.

[ScotchTanShan]

Yeah, it sucks to lose Allen.

Can't change the fact that we couldn't sign him long term, and so if you look at what they go, it's a pretty good deal for the Chiefs. Allen probably has a few more years as the elite DE- years that the Chiefs were more than likely not going to be contending for anything. If you can, presuming you do pick up good draft picks, getting younger and turning over the roster is better for the Chiefs longterm.

Like I said, didn't want to lose the guy, but I think they got pretty good value. Now, if the Chiefs end up grabbing a couple of great players with those picks it'll look like a great move, but you can't truly determine that for a few years. Kinda like speculating by saying that the Chiefs would know that a 4th round choice of theirs would net them a #1 and 2 #3 picks...

[NaptownChief]

7-9 Vs. 4-12? And we kept our pro-bowl Defensive end and have a Quarterback that doesn't suck. You guys effectively hit the reset button. We're better and have youth on the team already. So, no I don't believe we're in the same state.




You had the 21st rated scoring offense and the 28th rated scoring defense....You should have hit the reset button also.

Your OL is one of the few hurting about as bad as the Chiefs, your Dline is complete garbage after they tried to build it with a bunch of Browns and a bad character guy in Thomas that will probably get the Pac Man 1 year timeout in the next couple seasons.

Your best chance for winning games will be to pull out close ones late and this season you will probably have to try and do that with a make **** journeyman kicker.

You guys needed to hit the reset button but Shanny is too proud and foolish to do so. He thinks he can fix it by gambling on bad character guys and cast away WR's with rotten hands. Good luck.

[sixtimeseight]

Lemme guess, you figure Brees is better than Rivers too. Right.

Ummm... Brees is way better than Rivers. I thought that was pretty much common knowledge.

Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2007 New Orleans Saints 16 652 440 67.5 40.8 4,423 6.8 276.4 28 4.3 18 2.8 58 47 8 16 109 89.4
2006 New Orleans Saints 16 554 356 64.3 34.6 4,418 8.0 276.1 26 4.7 11 2.0 86T 61 18 18 105 96.2

>>>>>>>

Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2007 San Diego Chargers 16 460 277 60.2 28.8 3,152 6.9 197.0 21 4.6 15 3.3 49T 44 4 22 163 82.4
2006 San Diego Chargers 16 460 284 61.7 28.8 3,388 7.4 211.8 22 4.8 9 2.0 57T 41 5 27 144 92.0


Especially considering SD talent >>>> NO talent

[Beantown Bronco]

Denver hasn't done anything to try and fix the DL from being gashed by RB's.

Apparently, you missed the memo. Bates is gone. That alone is an improvement.

[Bronx33]

You had the 21st rated scoring offense and the 28th rated scoring defense....You should have hit the reset button also.

Your OL is one of the few hurting about as bad as the Chiefs, your Dline is complete garbage after they tried to build it with a bunch of Browns and a bad character guy in Thomas that will probably get the Pac Man 1 year timeout in the next couple seasons.

Your best chance for winning games will be to pull out close ones late and this season you will probably have to try and do that with a make **** journeyman kicker.

You guys needed to hit the reset button but Shanny is too proud and foolish to do so. He thinks he can fix it by gambling on bad character guys and cast away WR's with rotten hands. Good luck.


Even raiders fans will be making fun of your team (for 2 years) enjoy.

[Beantown Bronco]

Your OL is one of the few hurting about as bad as the Chiefs

That's true ONLY if Hamilton and Nalen don't come back 100%, but since Nalen has already gone on record to say that both are already there, I'm not too worried about that scenario panning out this year. Not to mention the fact that the LT, whoever it is, can't possibly be any worse than Lepsis last year. I'm a realist and I just can't see any way the Broncos OLine is worse this year than last even if they don't draft anyone.......unless, of course, unforeseen injuries strike.

[NaptownChief]

Ummm... Brees is way better than Rivers. I thought that was pretty much common knowledge.

Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2007 New Orleans Saints 16 652 440 67.5 40.8 4,423 6.8 276.4 28 4.3 18 2.8 58 47 8 16 109 89.4
2006 New Orleans Saints 16 554 356 64.3 34.6 4,418 8.0 276.1 26 4.7 11 2.0 86T 61 18 18 105 96.2

>>>>>>>

Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2007 San Diego Chargers 16 460 277 60.2 28.8 3,152 6.9 197.0 21 4.6 15 3.3 49T 44 4 22 163 82.4
2006 San Diego Chargers 16 460 284 61.7 28.8 3,388 7.4 211.8 22 4.8 9 2.0 57T 41 5 27 144 92.0


Especially considering SD talent >>>> NO talent


After reading that comment I decided I was pretty much done discussing with the Bolt....Sometimes some folks are so distorted that you can't even argue that 2 plus 2 equals 4 with them. Clearly I ran into that person today.

[NaptownChief]

Even raiders fans will be making fun of your team (for 2 years) enjoy.


Trust me, I'm not arguing that...The Chiefs aren't very good. They have a below average coach, a rotten GM and a lot of holes.

I'm in tune with reality here. I'm just pointing out that I think a lot of Donkey fans are more distorted than even usual this offseason. Your defense was bad. Your offense has holes on the OL, your RB situation is a bit messy with Henry and his troubles, your top WR may have a lobster claw for a hand and your QB is still learning.

With a little luck the Donks could muster a solid 8-8 season out of that but they wouldn't need many bad breaks to toss up a 5-11 stinker either.

[Bronx33]

So in two years time brodie should be the man right? i just don't see this as a two year plan to be a legit team are these unknown drafts picks going to produce from day one? will (carl pick good ones) or logically they are going to need a year or two to settle in. (an i thought this thread was about the cheaps?)

[NaptownChief]

So in two years time brodie should be the man right? i just don't see this as a two year plan to be a legit team are these unknown drafts picks going to produce from day one? will (carl pick good ones) or logically they are going to need a year or two to settle in.


I think Bob is one of the very few still holding out hope for Croyle. I think the team makes a move on Ryan, Brohm or Flacco in this draft....I just hope it isn't Henne.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Ummm... Brees is way better than Rivers. I thought that was pretty much common knowledge.

Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2007 New Orleans Saints 16 652 440 67.5 40.8 4,423 6.8 276.4 28 4.3 18 2.8 58 47 8 16 109 89.4
2006 New Orleans Saints 16 554 356 64.3 34.6 4,418 8.0 276.1 26 4.7 11 2.0 86T 61 18 18 105 96.2

>>>>>>>

Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2007 San Diego Chargers 16 460 277 60.2 28.8 3,152 6.9 197.0 21 4.6 15 3.3 49T 44 4 22 163 82.4
2006 San Diego Chargers 16 460 284 61.7 28.8 3,388 7.4 211.8 22 4.8 9 2.0 57T 41 5 27 144 92.0


Especially considering SD talent >>>> NO talent
YOu posted their stats... is that your argument? Brees' play was stellar last year... Um, yeah. Hey, I like the guy, but he's not as good a QB as Rivers- no two ways around it.

[NaptownChief]

YOu posted their stats... is that your argument? Brees' play was stellar last year... Um, yeah. Hey, I like the guy, but he's not as good a QB as Rivers- no two ways around it.


So says the incredibly biased Bolt homer...

[Bronx33]

I think Bob is one of the very few still holding out hope for Croyle. I think the team makes a move on Ryan, Brohm or Flacco in this draft....I just hope it isn't Henne.


That would be wise i don't see croyle as the future but has he been giving the proper chance in your opinion and does he have the necessary weapons to prove himself? it may be his window may pass with the chiefs.

[NW Bolt Fan]

After reading that comment I decided I was pretty much done discussing with the Bolt....Sometimes some folks are so distorted that you can't even argue that 2 plus 2 equals 4 with them. Clearly I ran into that person today.
Really I shot a hole in your parade about giving up a PROVEN TALENT in Allen for a bunch of prospectives... Potato, tomato.

[NW Bolt Fan]

So says the incredibly biased Bolt homer...Brees 7-9, missed the playoffs. Rivers 11-5, postseason. Umm, call it bias, I call it common sense. They both fielded the same teams as the previous year. If you still think Brees is better, C'est la vie.

[Bronx33]

Brees 7-9, missed the playoffs. Rivers 11-5, postseason. Umm, call it bias, I call it common sense. They both fielded the same teams as the previous year. If you still think Brees is better, C'est la vie.


Lets be fair brees didn't lose all those game by himself (he had help)

[NaptownChief]

That would be wise i don't see croyle as the future but has he been giving the proper chance in your opinion and does he have the necessary weapons to prove himself? it may be his window may pass with the chiefs.

He hasn't been given a big chance yet but didn't prove anything when he was given a shot. They did everything they could to give him the starting job last year and he couldn't even beat out a journeyman in Huard. The smart thing to do would be to get a QB by the 2nd round and if Croyle works out then great but I sure wouldn't be wasting anymore time without developing a good talent in the mean time.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Yes but that still doesn't make him a good QB.Keep your fantasies private perv boy.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Lets be fair brees didn't lose all those game by himself (he had help)Sure, no QB wins or loses the game alone. I wanted Brees gone long before he was... He most definitely redeemed himself after Rivers was drafted. But he's still not the better QB. He makes due with less, and is "gritty," but if they'd have dumped Rivers and kept Brees I'd still say it was a mistake.

Rivers is stronger, better pocket presence, better vision, better arm, quicker release... Brees is a better scrambler, but also had a tendency to lose "it" at the most inopportune moments- like when the game was on the line. He didn't close close games out. But he's a likeable guy, and plays hard.

Like I said, I like the guy, great person, but just not as good a QB as Rivers.

[TheChamp24]

haha, I went over to Crapsplanet.com and saw a topic where someone over there is proclaiming the Chiefs got 2 1st round picks for Allen.
The 1st this year, and he says the 2 thirds this year equal a 1st next year, and then goes on about how you trade those 2 thirds for a 2nd rounder, then trade that 2nd rounder for a 1st next year. lol, whateve floats your boat

[NW Bolt Fan]

Just exposing yours....Run along Rivers lover.Wasnt' me that thought of it. Obviously your latent homosexualism is peeking into your waking life. If your'e not okay with it you probably oughta get counseling. But, as a chef fan you're likely already there, just add another issue to the docket.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I still think Brees is a better quarterback than Rivers. He certainly doesn't act like a child, and his release isn't a piece of crap either.

[sixtimeseight]

Everybody thinks Brees is a better QB than Rivers. Except one delusional, idiot Chargers homer.

Oh, and how predictable was the "well at least he's a winner!!1" argument coming out as soon as the stats were posted? It's like the last lonely piece of driftwood that drowning Rivers' homers cling on to when you point out what a crappy QB he is.

[Requiem]

Hey Bobo, I hear the Chiefs are really high on Heath Benedict. I hear he has great value anywhere from #5 to #17. I hope you select him!

[boltaneer]

It's not necessarily which QB is better because I think at this point in time you should rank Brees slightly ahead of Rivers in whatever scale people use to rank quarterbacks however Rivers still has the higher ceiling IMO. And both are in optimal situations right now. Brees is in a much better system with Sean Payton and New Orleans than he was here. It's like a perfect match.

But yet, believe it or not Rivers has been an upgrade in San Diego. He just performs better in the clutch here for some reason. Rivers already led more comebacks in his first season starting then Brees did in his entire career here. They both put up good numbers here but the real difference is with the clutch play. And you can take this as a compliment but one of the major obstacles that San Diego had during Brees' time here was the inability to beat Denver because you have to beat your division first before you can go anywhere else.

Both New Orleans and San Diego have great offensive talent. The only thing New Orleans is missing is a legitimate TE which they might fill the void if they work out the trade for Shockey.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Hey Bobo, I hear the Chiefs are really high on Heath Benedict. I hear he has great value anywhere from #5 to #17. I hope you select him!

You're a piece of crap for cracking on a dead man.

[FantomForce]

Bob your boy Naptown is turning on you and Croyle you guys have become the democrats of the NFL

[NW Bolt Fan]

It's not necessarily which QB is better because I think at this point in time you should rank Brees slightly ahead of Rivers in whatever scale people use to rank quarterbacks however Rivers still has the higher ceiling IMO. And both are in optimal situations right now. Brees is in a much better system with Sean Payton and New Orleans than he was here. It's like a perfect match.

But yet, believe it or not Rivers has been an upgrade in San Diego. He just performs better in the clutch here for some reason. Rivers already led more comebacks in his first season starting then Brees did in his entire career here. They both put up good numbers here but the real difference is with the clutch play. And you can take this as a compliment but one of the major obstacles that San Diego had during Brees' time here was the inability to beat Denver because you have to beat your division first before you can go anywhere else.

Both New Orleans and San Diego have great offensive talent. The only thing New Orleans is missing is a legitimate TE which they might fill the void if they work out the trade for Shockey.Which is it? Is Rivers an upgrade, or is Brees the better QB? You can't have it both ways. IMO, there is NO WAY Brees comes back and beast Cincy, then Denver, then Seattle... his first year starting. NO WAY Brees leads the team to victory in the playoffs. The fascination with Brees here is that Denver managed to OWN him, despite us having LT, blah, blah, blah... The two are incomparable.

[boltaneer]

Which is it? Is Rivers an upgrade, or is Brees the better QB? You can't have it both ways. IMO, there is NO WAY Brees comes back and beast Cincy, then Denver, then Seattle... his first year starting. NO WAY Brees leads the team to victory in the playoffs. The fascination with Brees here is that Denver managed to OWN him, despite us having LT, blah, blah, blah... The two are incomparable.

It's what I said.

Rivers is the better quarterback for San Diego.

Brees seems to fare better in a more spread out system and with the little gadget plays Sean Payton likes to run than one of a more conventional running game to set up the pass type offense that San Diego runs. Not that he can't do both because he proved that he can. It's just that he had his limitations here and some teams knew how to expose them. Denver, Philly, Pittsburgh to name a few were great at bringing a lot of pressure up the middle when Brees was here. This is something Brees continues to have problems with even in New Orleans. It's mainly his height. This is why spreading the field and not having everyone bunched in the middle helps him so much. But Payton's three and four wide receiver formations often neutralizes those types of defenses.

Rivers on the other hand deals with that kind of pressure better than Brees and on the other hand he struggles more with the outside pass rush because he isn't as mobile as Brees is. It's all about the fit. That's why I would still rank Brees slightly higher with New Orleans. But if you want to compare them in San Diego, Rivers is the better quarterback.

[boltaneer]

Which is it? Is Rivers an upgrade, or is Brees the better QB? You can't have it both ways. IMO, there is NO WAY Brees comes back and beast Cincy, then Denver, then Seattle... his first year starting. NO WAY Brees leads the team to victory in the playoffs. The fascination with Brees here is that Denver managed to OWN him, despite us having LT, blah, blah, blah... The two are incomparable.

I just wanted to add though that I agree with you about Brees not being able to lead comebacks that Rivers already has here. Like I said earlier, Rivers already led more comebacks in his first season than Brees did his entire time here.

The knock on Brees here was that he beat up on the little sisters of the league with ease but struggled against the upper echelon teams.

Anyway, I'll stop joining in with the hijacking of this thread. It should be about the Jared Allen trade.

[400HZ]

I don't think you can argue that Drew Brees has been a damn good quarterback since 2004, and it's flattering to Phillip Rivers that he can be favorably compared in many circumstances. Comparisons are actually pretty easy to draw. Brees in 2005 had all but one of the same starters on offense in 2005 as did Rivers in 2006. Brees was in his 4th year as a starter, Rivers in his first, but overall their passing numbers were VERY similar. I like Brees, but I think he has some limitations that are never going to be overcome, such as vulnerability to pressure up the middle due to his height, which leads to an inability to produce against top defenses. Comparing Brees in New Orleans to Rivers in San Diego is kind of stupid since Brees is in an offense where he gets to throw the ball 40 times a game.

[Atwater His Ass]

So I wonder how much this deal was affected by the Giants and their superb line play in the Super Bowl. Both on the monetary end in regards to the contract and in the compensation KC got in return.

[NW Bolt Fan]

So I wonder how much this deal was affected by the Giants and their superb line play in the Super Bowl. Both on the monetary end in regards to the contract and in the compensation KC got in return.Even with Allen and their great tackles, they're nowhere near what NY had on the D-line. Vikes now have one stellar DE. NY has 2 possibly 3. Tuck, Strahan, Umenyiora...

[NW Bolt Fan]

It's what I said.

Rivers is the better quarterback for San Diego.

Brees seems to fare better in a more spread out system and with the little gadget plays Sean Payton likes to run than one of a more conventional running game to set up the pass type offense that San Diego runs. Not that he can't do both because he proved that he can. It's just that he had his limitations here and some teams knew how to expose them. Denver, Philly, Pittsburgh to name a few were great at bringing a lot of pressure up the middle when Brees was here. This is something Brees continues to have problems with even in New Orleans. It's mainly his height. This is why spreading the field and not having everyone bunched in the middle helps him so much. But Payton's three and four wide receiver formations often neutralizes those types of defenses.

Rivers on the other hand deals with that kind of pressure better than Brees and on the other hand he struggles more with the outside pass rush because he isn't as mobile as Brees is. It's all about the fit. That's why I would still rank Brees slightly higher with New Orleans. But if you want to compare them in San Diego, Rivers is the better quarterback.Hypothetical then: You're starting a new franchise and you must take either Rivers, or Brees, who do you take?

And although this is "off topic" in this thread, I'm sure the above scenario will provide plenty of entertainment from moronic chirps responding to this...

[TheReverend]

Which is it? Is Rivers an upgrade, or is Brees the better QB? You can't have it both ways. IMO, there is NO WAY Brees comes back and beast Cincy, then Denver, then Seattle... his first year starting. NO WAY Brees leads the team to victory in the playoffs. The fascination with Brees here is that Denver managed to OWN him, despite us having LT, blah, blah, blah... The two are incomparable.

Brees is the better quarterback, bar none.

The fascination with Brees isn't one of ownership with Denver fans. It's actually somewhat of an admiration for a respectable and fierce competitor. If Rivers finishes a 2nd contract and he's NOT a journeyman QB somewhere, I'll seriously be shocked.

It's hardly Rivers that owns Denver the past two years. It's a frame of mind after veteran professional football players quit on the Broncos when Plummer got sat that owned Denver. It seems Mike came to that same conclusion and cleaned up some.

[TheReverend]

I just wanted to add though that I agree with you about Brees not being able to lead comebacks that Rivers already has here. Like I said earlier, Rivers already led more comebacks in his first season than Brees did his entire time here.

The knock on Brees here was that he beat up on the little sisters of the league with ease but struggled against the upper echelon teams.

Anyway, I'll stop joining in with the hijacking of this thread. It should be about the Jared Allen trade.

Like those shocking wins over Indy and NE? Ahhh the little sisters of the AFC, lol.

[kmonty]

It's hardly Rivers that owns Denver the past two years. It's a frame of mind after veteran professional football players quit on the Broncos when Plummer got sat that owned Denver. It seems Mike came to that same conclusion and cleaned up some.

I've thought the same thing for a while too.

[TheReverend]

I've thought the same thing for a while too.

Really? I thought you said it was all because Chris Williams isn't on the roster? :rofl: :rofl:

[NW Bolt Fan]

Brees is the better quarterback, bar none.

The fascination with Brees isn't one of ownership with Denver fans. It's actually somewhat of an admiration for a respectable and fierce competitor. If Rivers finishes a 2nd contract and he's NOT a journeyman QB somewhere, I'll seriously be shocked.

It's hardly Rivers that owns Denver the past two years. It's a frame of mind after veteran professional football players quit on the Broncos when Plummer got sat that owned Denver. It seems Mike came to that same conclusion and cleaned up some.
So the outcome will be different this year? The year we're "supposed" to reign, we go to Invesco early in the year... We're killing you guys. Up 14-0 at halftime. 1st play of 2nd half, Brees throws a TD... to Champ. That's just a shining example you probably remember. There were others. Brees was the single worst QB we'd had in decades during his '03 season. Absolutely AWFUL!!! Dude routinely missed guys WIDE OPEN STREAKING DOWN THE SIDELINE. You right ahead and annoint Brees the better QB. I'm ecstatic we kept the one we did.

[rovolution]

Brees was the single worst QB we'd had in decades during his '03 season.

I find this hard to believe considering this is the team that featured Ryan Leaf once upon a time.


But it shows when you became a Chargers fan.

[NW Bolt Fan]

I find this hard to believe considering this is the team that featured Ryan Leaf once upon a time.


But it shows when you became a Chargers fan.As bad as Leaf was, he didn't play as badly as Brees did in '03. Wasn't entirely Leaf's fault. No supporting cast, Kevin Gilbride as a head coach, etc. Leaf's first problem was being an A-hole. No one on the team liked him. No one. And then they quit on him. His first showing @ KC was probably the most pathetic single performance I can recall by a Charger QB, but Brees had multiple rivaling that. And it was the culmination of his '03 season.

[TheReverend]

So the outcome will be different this year? The year we're "supposed" to reign, we go to Invesco early in the year... We're killing you guys. Up 14-0 at halftime. 1st play of 2nd half, Brees throws a TD... to Champ. That's just a shining example you probably remember. There were others. Brees was the single worst QB we'd had in decades during his '03 season. Absolutely AWFUL!!! Dude routinely missed guys WIDE OPEN STREAKING DOWN THE SIDELINE. You right ahead and annoint Brees the better QB. I'm ecstatic we kept the one we did.

Champ did that exact same thing to MANY great QBs that season... I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

You can knock Drew Brees all you want for 2003, but Shawn Merriman, Luis Castillo and Cromartie have done more for Phillip Rivers career than Phillip Rivers.

[TheReverend]

As bad as Leaf was, he didn't play as badly as Brees did in '03. Wasn't entirely Leaf's fault. No supporting cast, Kevin Gilbride as a head coach, etc. Leaf's first problem was being an A-hole. No one on the team liked him. No one. And then they quit on him. His first showing @ KC was probably the most pathetic single performance I can recall by a Charger QB, but Brees had multiple rivaling that. And it was the culmination of his '03 season.

HOLY ****ING **** DID YOU TYPE THAT WITH A STRAIGHT FACE?!?!

You sound familiar...

You like baiting fans into absurd arguments and name calling...

You love Phillip Rivers...

Why... you ARE Phillip Rivers...

Congratulations PR, you just raised the douche ratio on this board.

[Requiem]

How much alcohol does 70 million get you?

[TheReverend]

How much alcohol does 70 million get you?

140 million 40's.

[boltaneer]

Hypothetical then: You're starting a new franchise and you must take either Rivers, or Brees, who do you take?

And although this is "off topic" in this thread, I'm sure the above scenario will provide plenty of entertainment from moronic chirps responding to this...

That's a hard decision but gun to my head, I would take Rivers due to the fact that he has a higher ceiling than Brees does. Brees has just about maxed out while Rivers is still growing and learning. Both have their faults but I think Rivers' faults are easier to work with than Brees'.

I don't think you could go wrong with either one though as both have proven that they are capable of playing at a high level.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

wow

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Cutler scares me a lot more than Rivers...Mr. System QB...

[boltaneer]

Neither Cutler nor Croyle scares me. :)

[TheReverend]

That's a hard decision but gun to my head, I would take Rivers due to the fact that he has a higher ceiling than Brees does. Brees has just about maxed out while Rivers is still growing and learning. Both have their faults but I think Rivers' faults are easier to work with than Brees'.

I don't think you could go wrong with either one though as both have proven that they are capable of playing at a high level.

I disagree.

And if Rivers' faults were so easily correctable, why the **** couldn't the coaches manage to when they had 2 years to work with the retard before he ever touched the field?

Brees growth got stunted quite a bit by starting off on a godawful Charger team, while Rivers got coddled into his starting roll several years later onto a media hyped talent juggernaut.

I'll admit that AJ's done a fine job getting talent, but it doesn't last forever with any franchise. I'll take the guy who can make something out of nothing and that's Brees.

[TheReverend]

Neither Cutler nor Croyle scares me. :)

Then you're only half retarded. ;)

[boltaneer]

I disagree.

And if Rivers' faults were so easily correctable, why the **** couldn't the coaches manage to when they had 2 years to work with the retard before he ever touched the field?

Brees growth got stunted quite a bit by starting off on a godawful Charger team, while Rivers got coddled into his starting roll several years later onto a media hyped talent juggernaut.

I'll admit that AJ's done a fine job getting talent, but it doesn't last forever with any franchise. I'll take the guy who can make something out of nothing and that's Brees.

Rivers' big flaw is that he's not mobile at all. You can't do anything about that but try to put a good o-line in front of him. He's a pure drop back passer.

A lot of people like to criticize his arm strength. No one is going to confuse his arm for Brett Favre but his arm is good enough to make all the passes you need to as an NFL quarterback. And Brees' arm is weaker IMO. Though oddly enough, it did seem to get stronger after having his shoulder surgery.

[Atlas]

As bad as Leaf was, he didn't play as badly as Brees did in '03. Wasn't entirely Leaf's fault. No supporting cast, Kevin Gilbride as a head coach, etc. Leaf's first problem was being an A-hole. No one on the team liked him. No one. And then they quit on him. His first showing @ KC was probably the most pathetic single performance I can recall by a Charger QB, but Brees had multiple rivaling that. And it was the culmination of his '03 season.

Wilihan, McMahon, Malone, Tolliver, Humphries, Leaf are just some of the great QBs S.D. has had over the last 20 years since Fouts. Brees is one of the best on the list. Shows how much you know about your team.

[kmonty]

Then you're only half retarded. ;)

LOL

[TheReverend]

Rivers' big flaw is that he's not mobile at all. You can't do anything about that but try to put a good o-line in front of him. He's a pure drop back passer.

A lot of people like to criticize his arm strength. No one is going to confuse his arm for Brett Favre but his arm is good enough to make all the passes you need to as an NFL quarterback. And Brees' arm is weaker IMO. Though oddly enough, it did seem to get stronger after having his shoulder surgery.

Throwing side arm as a pocket passer with no mobility is certainly a recipe for success...

[boltaneer]

Throwing side arm as a pocket passer with no mobility is certainly a recipe for success...

Yep! It's worked so far for him. :flower:

[TheReverend]

Yep! It's worked so far for him. :flower:

I really don't see it...

The day San Diego has to stand on his passes to carry them is another day they lose.

Feel free to slog through hours of my post history and you'll see I've never said a bad word about Brees... this isn't some SD Charger hate... he's genuinely a poor QB and he's lucky the team didn't implode on him when LT was nearly ready to knock his ass out on the sidelines.

The AFCW was weak last year... really weak. Counting on Norv and PR to be the big upgrade to Marty and Brees is only setting your expectations for a HUGE fall when reality hits.

[boltaneer]

I really don't see it...

The day San Diego has to stand on his passes to carry them is another day they lose.

I guess you didn't catch the Titans and Colts playoff games last year.

[TheReverend]

I guess you didn't catch the Titans and Colts playoff games last year.

I'm not so convinced I'd credit holding the Titans to 6 points to Phillip Rivers quarterback ability...

and when you run the ball 30 times and only trust PR to pass 19... I mean understand gameplan and there's plenty of situations where that's appropriate... but this wasn't fourth quarter running with a lead... this was a tight game that I really don't think the Colts took seriously.

PS. Thanks for blowing my Manning bowl, ****os.

[boltaneer]

I'm not so convinced I'd credit holding the Titans to 6 points to Phillip Rivers quarterback ability...

Rivers' stats weren't off the charts in the Titans game. (To use the Cutler crutch that's always being thrown around here) His o-line was getting owned for most of the game by Haynesworth, Vanden Bosh, Odom, et al. But he made two absolutely beautiful and big time clutch throws in that game. In fact, the TD pass to Chambers was probably the prettiest pass I saw all of last year.


and when you run the ball 30 times and only trust PR to pass 19... I mean understand gameplan and there's plenty of situations where that's appropriate... but this wasn't fourth quarter running with a lead...

Okay, let's actually analyze this closer instead of throwing out some generalized stats.

LT had seven carries in that game. Turner had seventeen carries. Sproles had one.

I'm going to disregard the two rushing attempts by Rivers because obviously those weren't designed runs. And I'm going to throw out the three rushes by Volek as well. So, we're left with twenty-five actual rushing attempts. Nine of those carries took place after Rivers left the game. So now we're left with sixteen carries while Rivers was playing. And Rivers had nineteen pass attempts (twenty pass plays were called if you include the play where he wound up scrambling). So we end up with a grand total of sixteen rushing plays called versus twenty pass plays called while Rivers was in the game.

14/19 for 264 yards, 3 TDs with a completion percentage of nearly 74% and a QB rating of 133.2 in only three quarters of play.

I don't know how in the world you can bash a quarterback for putting up those numbers in a playoff game, especially in Indy's dome, against the #2 ranked pass defense.

this was a tight game that I really don't think the Colts took seriously.

And this is the early nomination for stupidest statement of the year.

[TheReverend]

Rivers' stats weren't off the charts in the Titans game. (To use the Cutler crutch that's always being thrown around here) His o-line was getting owned for most of the game by Haynesworth, Vanden Bosh, Odom, et al. But he made two absolutely beautiful and big time clutch throws in that game. In fact, the TD pass to Chambers was probably the prettiest pass I saw all of last year.




Okay, let's actually analyze this closer instead of throwing out some generalized stats.

LT had seven carries in that game. Turner had seventeen carries. Sproles had one.

I'm going to disregard the two rushing attempts by Rivers because obviously those weren't designed runs. And I'm going to throw out the three rushes by Volek as well. So, we're left with twenty-five actual rushing attempts. Nine of those carries took place after Rivers left the game. So now we're left with sixteen carries while Rivers was playing. And Rivers had nineteen pass attempts (twenty pass plays were called if you include the play where he wound up scrambling). So we end up with a grand total of sixteen rushing plays called versus twenty pass plays called while Rivers was in the game.

14/19 for 264 yards, 3 TDs with a completion percentage of nearly 74% and a QB rating of 133.2 in only three quarters of play.

I don't know how in the world you can bash a quarterback for putting up those numbers in a playoff game, especially in Indy's dome, against the #2 ranked pass defense.



And this is the early nomination for stupidest statement of the year.

As for the titans game, had he not made the throws SD still wins. I'm talking about a game where he singlehandedly carried them to victory, not a dominating defensive performance.

The Colts you do make good points and I don't want to cling to anything loose and blame it on the Colts not showing up to play... but I do feel they may have bought a little too much into the NE vs Colts AFCCG that was hyped all year long.

I give credit where its due and SD is a good football team. I just don't see how in the world anyone can claim PR is better than Brees. I put Brees in my top 5. I'm not certain Rivers cracks my top half.

I'm looking forward to the West being much more competitive this year.

[boltaneer]

I give credit where its due and SD is a good football team. I just don't see how in the world anyone can claim PR is better than Brees. I put Brees in my top 5. I'm not certain Rivers cracks my top half.

Just FYI, I'm not the one claiming Rivers is better than Brees (yet), though it's getting really difficult for me to hold back on that statement after the way Rivers played in the post-season. But I do think Rivers is already a better quarterback than Brees was here with the offensive system San Diego uses.

Brees however is in a perfect fit in New Orleans IMO. I think it's a win-win situation for both QBs.

[TheReverend]

Just FYI, I'm not the one claiming Rivers is better than Brees (yet), though it's getting really difficult for me to hold back on that statement after the way Rivers played in the post-season. But I do think Rivers is already a better quarterback than Brees was here with the offensive system San Diego uses.

Brees however is in a perfect fit in New Orleans IMO. I think it's a win-win situation for both QBs.

Spending a #4 draft pick to make imo at best a lateral move at the QB position is hardly win/win in my eyes... and gaining no compensation for Brees.

Luckily, SD spent a decade in the cellar and made many smart decisions involving those high picks and personnel and the impact of that has been minimized to say the least.

Rivers gets entirely too much credit for W/L record and bringing in a pair of post season wins. If Kaeding weren't retarded who knows how heavily the chargers may have shocked the world coming off 3-13 way back when.

As a Bronco fan, nothing makes me happier that Brees is a Saint and Rivers is under center for a rival. Along with being (once again imo) merely a serviceable starter he's a hell of a villain to despise. I hope Marcus Thomas becomes extremely friendly with that knee of his.

[400HZ]

14/19 for 264 yards, 3 TDs with a completion percentage of nearly 74% and a QB rating of 133.2 in only three quarters of play.

I don't know how in the world you can bash a quarterback for putting up those numbers in a playoff game, especially in Indy's dome, against the #2 ranked pass defense.



And this is the early nomination for stupidest statement of the year.

Durrr...

You guys know good and well that there would still be hot man love raining down from the sky if Cutler had pulled that off.

[400HZ]

Spending a #4 draft pick to make imo at best a lateral move at the QB position is hardly win/win in my eyes... and gaining no compensation for Brees.


Did you miss 2002 and 2003? Why do you think Phillip ended up in San Diego? And San Diego got a 3rd round pick for Brees.

[TheReverend]

Did you miss 2002 and 2003? Why do you think Phillip ended up in San Diego? And San Diego got a 3rd round pick for Brees.

As far as bottom of the round compensatory picks? Not being a smart ass I'm just certain he went to NO as a FA.

I caught 2002 and 2003. I remember Flutie. I also remember Brees' entire career as a Boilermaker which was little short of phenomenal. You draft a guy you know how has the talent. You see him working his ass off after hours and in the off-season, you know he loves the city and the organization, and you give him that little time with such a ****ty team? It's not like the championship pieces were in place yet.

Eh, your franchise not mine. Enjoy the limelight while it lasts.

[400HZ]

As far as bottom of the round compensatory picks? Not being a smart ass I'm just certain he went to NO as a FA.

I caught 2002 and 2003. I remember Flutie. I also remember Brees' entire career as a Boilermaker which was little short of phenomenal. You draft a guy you know how has the talent. You see him working his ass off after hours and in the off-season, you know he loves the city and the organization, and you give him that little time with such a ****ty team? It's not like the championship pieces were in place yet.

Eh, your franchise not mine. Enjoy the limelight while it lasts.

The Chargers weren't going to get much more than a 3rd for him anyways considering the severity of his arm injury, and it was dumb to risk a messy contract offer/trade scenario when a 3rd was sitting right there.

If you want to talk about college careers, then Brees' really doesn't hold a candle to Rivers'. College careers are irrelevent anyways once you start playing in the NFL. The Chargers drafted Brees, let him sit for a year, and then gave him two years to show that he had something, and he showed jack squat. Bad team or not, he showed almost nothing that would justify not taking a quarterback in the incredibly deep 2004 class. That's just how it was, and there wasn't much dispute. Once Rivers was drafted, it was only a matter of time. Don't try and act like Brees was throwing for 4400 yards in 2003, because he was stinking Qualcomm up.

[TheReverend]

The Chargers weren't going to get much more than a 3rd for him anyways considering the severity of his arm injury, and it was dumb to risk a messy contract offer/trade scenario when a 3rd was sitting right there.

If you want to talk about college careers, then Brees' really doesn't hold a candle to Rivers'. College careers are irrelevent anyways once you start playing in the NFL. The Chargers drafted Brees, let him sit for a year, and then gave him two years to show that he had something, and he showed jack squat. Bad team or not, he showed almost nothing that would justify not taking a quarterback in the incredibly deep 2004 class. That's just how it was, and there wasn't much dispute. Once Rivers was drafted, it was only a matter of time. Don't try and act like Brees was throwing for 4400 yards in 2003, because he was stinking Qualcomm up.

You act like the other 50 players on the team were setting the league on fire...

[400HZ]

You act like the other 50 players on the team were setting the league on fire...

You're making a dead end argument. Is Brodie Croyle going to explode next year? I guess we can't judge him since he's not surrounded by top shelf talent. If the Vikings draft an impact receiver, is Tavaris Jackson going to set the world on fire?

I think you know well enough that there are ways to judge talent without a perfect control group of surrounding players. There were plays were Brees had good protection and open receivers and failed to deliver. Phillip Rivers faced plenty where protection broke down and nobody was open. Every quarterback faces pretty much every situation multiple times every year. When AJ Smith was evaluating Brees vs Rivers, do you think he watched a bit of tape on Brees were Damion McIntosh left the back door wide open and Brees got clobbered from behind in 1.5 seconds and then watched a play of Rivers from NC State when Phillip had 3 seconds to throw and then got up and said "Hmm, well Phillip definitely handles the pass rush better." OF COURSE NOT!!!

You aren't going to paint me into a corner where I have to attack Brees' skills today, but the fact remains that he performed terribly in 2003 and that lead directly to Phillip Rivers coming to SD. AJ didn't just get a wild hair up his ass one morning and decide to go in a different direction at quarterback.

[TheReverend]

You're making a dead end argument. Is Brodie Croyle going to explode next year? I guess we can't judge him since he's not surrounded by top shelf talent. If the Vikings draft an impact receiver, is Tavaris Jackson going to set the world on fire?

I think you know well enough that there are ways to judge talent without a perfect control group of surrounding players. There were plays were Brees had good protection and open receivers and failed to deliver. Phillip Rivers faced plenty where protection broke down and nobody was open. Every quarterback faces pretty much every situation multiple times every year. When AJ Smith was evaluating Brees vs Rivers, do you think he watched a bit of tape on Brees were Damion McIntosh left the back door wide open and Brees got clobbered from behind in 1.5 seconds and then watched a play of Rivers from NC State when Phillip had 3 seconds to throw and then got up and said "Hmm, well Phillip definitely handles the pass rush better." OF COURSE NOT!!!

You aren't going to paint me into a corner where I have to attack Brees' skills today, but the fact remains that he performed terribly in 2003 and that lead directly to Phillip Rivers coming to SD. AJ didn't just get a wild hair up his ass one morning and decide to go in a different direction at quarterback.

Really dude, I'm not trying to paint you or anything involving the chargers into anything.

Because I really, really, really don't ****ing care. If I did, I'd be on a Chargers message board... but I'm not. You're here. So shut the **** up.

If you douche bags can't see like the rest of the NFL that Brees is great and Rivers is mediocre... then I DONT ****ING CARE. In a year or two, I still won't care!

I

DO

NOT

GIVE

A

FLYING

****

ABOUT

THE

CHARGERS

[alkemical]

Really dude, I'm not trying to paint you or anything involving the chargers into anything.

Because I really, really, really don't ****ing care. If I did, I'd be on a Chargers message board... but I'm not. You're here. So shut the **** up.

If you douche bags can't see like the rest of the NFL that Brees is great and Rivers is mediocre... then I DONT ****ING CARE. In a year or two, I still won't care!

I

DO

NOT

GIVE

A

FLYING

****

ABOUT

THE

CHARGERS


PEACE!

[400HZ]

Really dude, I'm not trying to paint you or anything involving the chargers into anything.

Because I really, really, really don't ****ing care. If I did, I'd be on a Chargers message board... but I'm not. You're here. So shut the **** up.

If you douche bags can't see like the rest of the NFL that Brees is great and Rivers is mediocre... then I DONT ****ING CARE. In a year or two, I still won't care!

I

DO

NOT

GIVE

A

FLYING

****

ABOUT

THE

CHARGERS


For someone who doesn't give a flying **** about it, you sure seem interested in debating it.

I'm done talking about it, anyways.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Really dude, I'm not trying to paint you or anything involving the chargers into anything.

Because I really, really, really don't ****ing care. If I did, I'd be on a Chargers message board... but I'm not. You're here. So shut the **** up.

If you douche bags can't see like the rest of the NFL that Brees is great and Rivers is mediocre... then I DONT ****ING CARE. In a year or two, I still won't care!

I

DO

NOT

GIVE

A

FLYING

****

ABOUT

THE

CHARGERS
LOL LOL LOL Classic. You get flamed out in a "debate" and the resort to name calling and saying, "I don't care about Chargers." You sure give a **** about them kicking your ass the last 2 years in a row. Get ready for 3. It's soon to happen.

And before you spout off about **** you don't have any knowledge of, go back and take a look at the team that surrounded Leaf, and the one that surrounded Brees in '03. Perhaps you forget that it was Brees' play that netted us the 1st overall pick in the draft to take PR (Eli). Despite playing for a crappier overall team, Leaf never played down to Brees' '03 level. I watched every game in '98, and '03. I'm a little more familiar. You're a ****ing joke of knowledge about the NFL period. Not just the donks. Not just the Bolts. But all football. :wave:

[sixtimeseight]

The really funny thing is that if the Chargers wouldn't have reached for a QB who most projected as a 2nd round pick and gone BPA, selecting Roy Williams, they would have at least one Super Bowl by now.

Guess San Diego really isn't that good at drafting after all. It's easy to fool people into thinking otherwise when you have 5 straight top ten picks though.

[NW Bolt Fan]

The really funny thing is that if the Chargers wouldn't have reached for a QB who most projected as a 2nd round pick and gone BPA, selecting Roy Williams, they would have at least one Super Bowl by now.

Guess San Diego really isn't that good at drafting after all. It's easy to fool people into thinking otherwise when you have 5 straight top ten picks though.A donk fan (incorrectly) criticizing SD's drafts....:giggle: PRICELESS.

[sixtimeseight]

Way to not address my post at all, going for some kind of strawman defense instead. Well done.

P.S. The Broncos drafted a QB at 13 who is 10x better than your rag armed ****face of a QB who the Chargers drafted at #4. lolololololololol

[400HZ]

Way to not address my post at all, going for some kind of strawman defense instead. Well done.

P.S. The Broncos drafted a QB at 13 who is 10x better than your rag armed ****face of a QB who the Chargers drafted at #4. lolololololololol

Not even your own hometown newspaper agrees with that.

[sixtimeseight]

I really don't give a **** what my "hometown newspaper" thinks about anything. Super try though.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Pretty soon you won't really give a **** about cutlet because he'll have fallen by the wayside and will be the latest in a long line of saviors post Elway.

[sixtimeseight]

http://z.about.com/d/jewelry/1/0/u/4/denver_xxxIII.jpg x 2

Next.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Ah the trump card. I'm surprised it took you so long. However, if you're not old enough to remember them getting the rings, it shouldn't mean much to you.

[sixtimeseight]

NW Bolt Fan (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=1439) This message is hidden because NW Bolt Fan is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=editlist).

Hmmm? Did you say something?

Didn't think so.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Hmmm? Did you say something?

Didn't think so.Nice, you ignore me, but you still have to talk... ****ing pre-pubescents these days. All talk, no listen.

[sixtimeseight]

NW Bolt Fan (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=1439) This message is hidden because NW Bolt Fan is on your ignore list (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/profile.php?do=editlist).
Still chirpin' huh? Like a little petulant child, I'll just let you wear yourself out.

EDIT: P.S. http://z.about.com/d/jewelry/1/0/u/4/denver_xxxIII.jpg x 2


Next!

[alkemical]

wow, if spider wouldn't have found out what a glory hole was - today would have been total ****.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Still chirpin' huh? Like a little petulant child, I'll just let you wear yourself out.

EDIT: P.S. http://z.about.com/d/jewelry/1/0/u/4/denver_xxxIII.jpg x 2


Next!You're an intransigent puss. And you'll probably respond to this one too, even though you have no idea what I'm saying. Wow. I'd be embarrassed if you were a Bolt fan. :giggle:

[alkemical]

You're an intransigent puss. And you'll probably respond to this one too, even though you have no idea what I'm saying. Wow. I'd be embarrassed if you were a Bolt fan. :giggle:

I'd be embarrassed to be a bolt fan too.

[boltaneer]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm still a huge Brees fan and I continue to root for him even in New Orleans. But the bottom line is that he struggled against the better teams and he couldn't beat the Broncos who has been the main competition in the division in the time he was here.

Here's the bottom line on why Denver fans hate Rivers so much:


Rivers:

Opp Result Comp Att Pct Yds TD Int Rate

@ DEN W 35-27 19 26 73.1 222 2 2 92.1

DEN W 48-20 15 23 65.2 279 2 0 136.0

@ DEN W 41-3 13 18 72.2 270 2 0 151.4

DEN W 23-3 17 25 68.0 189 1 0 103.6



Brees:

Opp Result Comp Att Pct Yds TD Int Rate

@ DEN L 9-26 26 42 61.9 235 1 2 65.1

DEN W 30-27 27 41 65.9 217 0 0 79.0

DEN L 13-37 20 41 48.8 182 1 1 59.2

@ DEN L 13-23 14 29 48.3 121 0 0 59.7

DEN W 20-17 14 27 51.9 106 0 1 46.2

@ DEN L 17-20 15 23 65.2 175 0 1 70.0

DEN L 7-23 8 14 57.1 68 0 0 69.9



If you guys still had Brees to kick around, you'd be happy.