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View Full Version : McCain Tax Cuts... Smoke and Mirrors


Bronco_Beerslug
04-21-2008, 06:58 AM
Sounds pretty much like Bushspeak to me.

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McCain's $3.3 Trillion Tax Cut, Budget Pledge at Odds (http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080418/pl_bloomberg/a72l7_aj5p9c;_ylt=Alr2bI6ELb6Ckt5TOxSxOUMGw_IE)
Ryan J. Donmoyer and Indira Lakshmanan

April 18 (Bloomberg) -- John McCain's plan to cut taxes and balance the budget wins praise from fellow Republicans. Economists and nonpartisan analysts say his numbers don't add up.

McCain's proposal, outlined April 15, would extend President George W. Bush's tax cuts, reduce the top corporate rate, repeal the alternative minimum tax and double exemptions for dependents. Price: $3.3 trillion by the end of a President McCain's second term in 2017, according to figures from his campaign and the Treasury.

The Arizona senator said that would be offset by eliminating pork-barrel spending, freezing a portion of the budget, and saving from Medicare spending. He could cut the budget by $100 billion a year ``in a New York minute,'' he said in a Bloomberg Television interview yesterday.

Robert Bixby, executive director of the Washington-based Concord Coalition, a nonpartisan group that advocates budget restraint, said ``the huge imbalance'' in McCain's plan ``is that the tax cuts are specific and large and the spending cuts are small and vague.''

Once, McCain was a deficit hawk, Bixby said, but ``strange things happen when people run for president.''

Tax Cuts

Extending Bush's tax cuts would cost $1.5 trillion through the end of a hypothetical second McCain term, according to Treasury Department figures. His proposal to reduce the corporate tax rate to 25 percent would cost $100 billion a year, McCain's campaign estimates. Doubling the exemption for dependents to $7,000 a year would cost another $65 billion annually and the AMT repeal adds another $60 billion a year, his campaign said.

McCain released tax returns today that showed he paid $5,413 in AMT in 2007 and $6,979 in 2006.

McCain's spending cuts, combined with increased revenue from economic growth, total $1.5 trillion over eight years, leaving a $1.8 trillion net increase to the national debt.

``This is really a massive increase in the deficit,'' said Joel Slemrod, an economist specializing in tax policy at the University of Michigan.

Two Washington research groups said McCain's plan would cost more. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities estimated his tax cuts would total $5 trillion over a two-term presidency. The Tax Policy Center, run jointly by the Brookings Institution and Urban Institute, said they would cost at least $5.7 trillion.

McCain senior economic adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin dismissed such estimates as ``fantasy-land budgeting.'' McCain's proposals, Holtz-Eakin said, would balance tax and spending cuts to meet his balanced-budget goals.

Romney's Reaction

``The numbers add up,'' former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said in an interview.

In an interview today on Bloomberg Television's ``Political Capital with Al Hunt,'' McCain said budget slashing is essential because ``we Republicans presided over the largest increase in the size of government since the Great Society,'' referring to a series of government entitlements, including Medicare, that were enacted in the 1960s.

To help pay for the tax cuts, Holtz-Eakin said he would save $30 billion a year by eliminating so-called ``rifle shot'' provisions. Those include items such as tax breaks for small insurance companies.

A Treasury Department report Holtz-Eakin cited as the source of his estimate states $27 billion could be raised by eliminating narrowly used tax preferences spread over a decade, not a single year.

The Discrepancy

When asked about the discrepancy, Holtz-Eakin replied that McCain would start with those provisions and target others like them to recover $30 billion annually.

Len Burman, director of the Tax Policy Center and a former Clinton administration Treasury official, said that is unrealistic. ``We looked for loopholes when I was there and couldn't even come up with $10 billion a year,'' he said.

McCain, 71, said he would offset the costs of lower corporate tax rates by freezing spending growth for a year on items unrelated to defense, veterans or entitlement programs like Medicare. So-called discretionary spending, which includes programs such as medical research and space exploration, makes up 18 percent of the budget. McCain said the freeze would save $15 billion.

There's a precedent. Former President Jimmy Carter attempted to implement ``zero-based budgeting'' that would have forced each agency to undergo an annual review and start from scratch. The idea ``didn't really work,'' Bixby said.

CONT.

Bronco Jamus
04-21-2008, 10:18 AM
"repeal the alternative minimum tax "

Good work

broncofan7
04-21-2008, 10:39 AM
There's a precedent. Former President Jimmy Carter attempted to implement ``zero-based budgeting'' that would have forced each agency to undergo an annual review and start from scratch. The idea ``didn't really work,'' Bixby said.
From a practical perspective--this make an incredible amount of sense---but being the huge bureaucracy that it is---for each agency to take the time to sit down and decide what they could 'do without' is like asking a spoiled child to do without some of his toys--which will automatically illicit the response of "but that's my FAVORITE toy". It is going to take intervention from an independent body in my opinion---and who appoints that independent body is the billion dollar question. I believe that corporate taxes do need to be lowered to entice businesses to not just come to America, but to stay in the USA.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/22917.html


As with all 3 candidates, I agree with some of their proposed corrective tax actions and disagree with others--however, the Democrats plan will affect me more directly than the McCains's plan will. in addition , I sincerely hope that when McCain sites the fact that he wants to freeze spending on things unrelated to defense and veterans, i hope that he is focusing on the withdrawal costs of pulling out of Iraq and rebuilding the size and morale of our overly burdened militaryinstead of STAYING in IRAQ which would drain us of even more capital and young people.

Crushaholic
04-21-2008, 11:21 AM
It's one thing to SAY you're going to eliminate pork barrel spending. It's another thing to DO it. As a senator, he knows the joy of getting money for his state projects. If he tries to go down that path, he will fail.

TailgateNut
04-21-2008, 11:34 AM
The thought of McCain at the reigns was scary enough when he addressed the future in Iraq, but he erases any doubt that he must not be president when you read this horse****.
Do republicans ever balance their books?

Dudeskey
04-21-2008, 11:41 AM
It's one thing to SAY you're going to eliminate pork barrel spending. It's another thing to DO it. As a senator, he knows the joy of getting money for his state projects. If he tries to go down that path, he will fail.

Especially when people in Washington consider roads and bridges "Pork barrel spending"... Sure, let our infrastructure go to ****. On the bright side, the terrorists will have nothing left to attack.

Crushaholic
04-21-2008, 11:45 AM
Neither Obama nor Clinton would do no better for the debt, as they have expressed desire to bust the budget on free healthcare for everybody. We are screwed no matter who is sitting in the White House in January...

Meck77
04-21-2008, 11:49 AM
Obama or Hillary will take care of any tax cuts. No smoke or mirrors needed there. Get those wallets ready if they win as they know how to spend your money better than you!

TailgateNut
04-21-2008, 11:50 AM
Neither Obama nor Clinton would do no better for the debt, as they have expressed desire to bust the budget on free healthcare for everybody. We are screwed no matter who is sitting in the White House in January...


It's a question of how often, how hard and if lubricant will be used. LOL

Sounds like McCain wants to continue to **** everyone except the corporations and the rich.

Same ol' same ol'!

He so ****ing old ya can't even beat new ideas into his noggin.

TailgateNut
04-21-2008, 11:59 AM
Obama or Hillary will take care of any tax cuts. No smoke or mirrors needed there. Get those wallets ready if they win as they know how to spend your money better than you!


So in YO we should continue spending Gazillions in Iraq and not make any payments to reduce the debt. Just put it on the backs of our children and grandchildren. Right?
That's the republican version of fairness. Allow irresponsible spending without dealing with the issue.

Meck77
04-21-2008, 12:04 PM
?
Allow irresponsible spending without dealing with the issue.

On a local level you just described our legislature that is controlled by the democrats. The republican minority pleaded their case that we need to keep some money in the bank for a rainy day. Instead the democrats made sure our state will spend every dime we have in 2009.

It's a cluster **** on the federal level as well. I won't argue that but it's much easier to talk to the weasels on a local level and let me tell you there are plenty of them.

They need to be put in check but nobody does it.

A perfect example. I tried to explain to our representatives that the voters of Colorado already approved a tax increase to fund fast tracks and that the project has been mismanaged to the tune of $1.6 Billion dollars. Their response? They are about to pass legislation that could increase our public debt via bonds that don't need voter approval.

Basically they will have a blank check soon. Our children of Colorado will be proud of our generation. Meanwhile the federal government is just printing off more monopoly money.

It's a disaster in the making. A billion here...A billion there.....My point is we Americans are better off going to vegas with our money then letting our government piss it away for us.

TailgateNut
04-21-2008, 12:31 PM
On a local level you just described our legislature that is controlled by the democrats. The republican minority pleaded their case that we need to keep some money in the bank for a rainy day. Instead the democrats made sure our state will spend every dime we have in 2009.

It's a cluster **** on the federal level as well. I won't argue that but it's much easier to talk to the weasels on a local level and let me tell you there are plenty of them.

They need to be put in check but nobody does it.

A perfect example. I tried to explain to our representatives that the voters of Colorado already approved a tax increase to fund fast tracks and that the project has been mismanaged to the tune of $1.6 Billion dollars. Their response? They are about to pass legislation that could increase our public debt via bonds that don't need voter approval.

Basically they will have a blank check soon. Our children of Colorado will be proud of our generation. Meanwhile the federal government is just printing off more monopoly money.

It's a disaster in the making. A billion here...A billion there.....My point is we Americans are better off going to vegas with our money then letting our government piss it away for us.


Not attempting to side with RTD, but the costs of construction materials have risen and are rising so fast that some of our qoute are only guaranteed for one week. Especially when metals are used by the suppliers and subcontractors.

My Electrical contractor purchased the cable for the seconday to the plant I'm building on a monday for $27000.00. The following friday the same amount of cable had risen to $32000.00.
Rebar has doubled in price in the last three years from approx 440 p ton to a current high of 920 p. ton.

It's nuts.

Not that this explains their 1.6 billion $$$ increase, but it doesn't help that the chinese are buying all our metal, and we DUMBASSES are selling it to them to regurgitate back to us at inflated prices and ****ty quality products.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
04-21-2008, 04:19 PM
We are screwed no matter who is sitting in the White House in January...

How did we get here, you ask?

That's right - seven years of Bush/GOP misadministration.

Spider
04-21-2008, 05:19 PM
Obama or Hillary will take care of any tax cuts. No smoke or mirrors needed there. Get those wallets ready if they win as they know how to spend your money better than you!

LOL as compared to what we have now ?
you keep talking about tax cuts ........ Well guess what I am ****ing Middle class , Show me my mother ****ing tax cut , cause even the accountant cant find the son of a Bitch ....... oh yeah I just dumped 632.85 in fuel to go to Denver got a half tank of fuel left ........ the Middle Class pay more tax then ever ****ing before , and now yo uwant the rich to get even more of a break off the blood ,sweat , labor of the middle class ...........

Spider
04-21-2008, 05:23 PM
oh yeah 300.00 check a few years back ......... whew that sure did save my ass on fuel cost:bs: mother ****ing check didnt even pay my electric bill for a month and half ............ ****ing tax cut my ass .....

Spider
04-21-2008, 05:25 PM
Why in the **** should my Kids pay for the Iraqi war when it was you stupid bastards that elected Bush ?
why in the hell should my Kids have ot pay our bills ? Because you ****s want a tax break ? **** you ......... Just **** you

Spider
04-21-2008, 05:42 PM
I am just in a pissed off mood ......... got shafted out of 6 Grand , got promised another load tonight and it fell through ....... I need to run my ass off to get caught up ...... I blew out a break Maxi and took out a set of breaks 2 tires , wiring , mudflap ....... roughly 1,000 in parts and labor ... oh and I got an overweight ticket in Lamar Colorado .......

Spider
04-21-2008, 06:15 PM
No my **** you remarks were not aimed at a certain person , just in general ... Look we all are having hard times , but it is our own ****ing fault , Bush got us into Iraq , and instead of ****ing waking up in 2004 , he gets another term , now people want our Kids to pay for their **** ups ...... Maybe next time you will ****ing use your head and think for your ****ing selves instead of a Bumper sticker slogan .......

baja
04-21-2008, 06:27 PM
I hear ya Spider, in truth I wonder if all the votes Bush got really were legit, I really have a hard time believing there are that many stupid Americans .

Spider
04-21-2008, 06:44 PM
I hear ya Spider, in truth I wonder if all the votes Bush got really were legit, I really have a hard time believing there are that many stupid Americans .

Bush was to Stupid people what Al Davis is to Raider fans

ScottXray
04-21-2008, 07:14 PM
Bush was to Stupid people what Al Davis is to Raider fans


HAHAH! Now that's truly funny... Tragic, but funny!

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
04-21-2008, 07:16 PM
Bush was to Stupid people what Al Davis is to Raider fans

:giggle: :rofl: ^5 :thumbs:

Pseudofool
04-21-2008, 08:40 PM
McCain on This Week unequivocably said he would cut taxes even if he couldn't get Congress behind cutting spending. He did mention cutting unmitigated defense spending, but only referred to a single item about "a ship." I'll give McCain credit, he's hard to derail, Stephenopholophogus realy tried to hit him hard on his flip-flopping on the Bush tax cuts, but he wasn't having any of it. The whole interview can be seen here: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4689908&affil=wotv

footstepsfrom#27
04-21-2008, 09:53 PM
McCain's a champion of anti-pork barrel spending? That's a good one. LOL

Rigs11
04-21-2008, 10:21 PM
Don't you know we're at war with the terrorists? Come repubs pony up, or are you not patriots? Pay your taxes, you're either with us or against us!

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
04-22-2008, 12:52 AM
Don't you know we're at war with the terrorists? Come repubs pony up, or are you not patriots? Pay your taxes, you're either with us or against us!

http://bartblog.bartcop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/1040ez.jpg