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rovolution
04-20-2008, 12:11 PM
http://www2.gazette.com/broncos/display.php?id=1332869

ENGLEWOOD - Terry Pierce, at age 26, should be entering his prime as an NFL linebacker. Instead, the 2003 second-round pick of the Denver Broncos is a financial adviser in Kansas.

“I went ahead and moved on,” said Pierce, who also started a networking Web site for business owners who are Kansas State alumni. “I wouldn’t have done it had there been another chance in football.”

In 2003 and 2004, the Broncos drafted 20 players — including Pierce — and 19 are no longer with the team. The only holdover is linebacker D.J. Williams, whose career path has been slowed by multiple position changes. Only three others are in the NFL.

Most of the players were jettisoned so quickly their names are only vaguely familiar, if they’re remembered at all. Defensive linemen Aaron Hunt and running back Quentin Griffin are in the Canadian Football League. Center Josh Sewell just signed with the Grand Rapids Rampage of the Arena Football League, and receiver Darius Watts signed with the Philadelphia Soul. Quarterback Matt Mauck is in dentistry school.

Quarterback Bradlee Van Pelt is playing in a recreational adult soccer league in Santa Barbara, Calif., and is tied for third in the league with 11 goals, according to its Web site.

Denver is coming off a 7-9 season and the roster isn’t as deep as it was a few years ago. A 95 percent failure rate in the 2003 and 2004 drafts and some misses in free agency during that period are prominent reasons.

Pierce said he’s happy in the financial realm. Helping people gives him satisfaction that is different from his football career, a feeling he described as “squishy” with a laugh. But he also thinks about his draft class, which should be providing the depth of the Broncos roster, at very least.

“Most of the guys were good enough to play,” Pierce said. “I think the surprising thing is none of them stuck. It was very surprising.”

There isn’t one answer for why the Broncos didn’t do well in those drafts. Griffin had some good games but got hurt. Watts could get open but dropped too many passes. Pierce was drafted to be Al Wilson’s replacement, but Wilson resigned with the team after Pierce’s first year. Pierce was asked to lose weight to play out of position at outside linebacker but that didn’t work and he was cut after two seasons. Running back Tatum Bell and offensive tackle George Foster became starters, but never grew into stars, fell out of favor and were traded to Detroit.

“Those weren’t good drafts or free agency, obviously,” Denver coach Mike Shanahan said after last season. “That stands for itself.”

Many others either had brief success or none at all. Out of the 20 draftees, only Williams, Bell, Foster and Steelers defensive tackle Nick Eason are in the NFL.

“When they say the NFL is ‘Not For Long,’ you really see that,” Williams said. “There’s guys that I got drafted with, that actually went top four rounds, not necessarily on this team, that aren’t even in the league anymore. Who would think a guy would be a third-round pick and two years later not be in the NFL?”

Williams said he didn’t think those drafts set the franchise back because many teams have great turnover annually.

Shanahan acknowledged that those drafts didn’t help.

He said the Broncos had the talent to win 10 games last year, and the expectation might have been 13 wins had there not been two wasted drafts.

“If we had some of those drafts, it would be different,” Shanahan said.

CONTACT THE WRITER: 476-4891 or frank.schwab@gazette.com. Check out our Broncos blog at gazettebroncos.blogspot.com

BAD PICKS LEAVE BAD TASTE

QUARTERBACK

Picks: Matt Mauck (seventh round, 2004), Bradlee Van Pelt (seventh round, 2004)

Today’s effect: Mauck and Van Pelt weren’t the answer so Denver signed veteran quarterback Patrick Ramsey to be Jay Cutler’s backup before last season.

RUNNING BACK

Picks: Quentin Griffin (fourth round, 2003), Ahmaad Galloway (seventh round, 2003), Tatum Bell (second round, 2004)

Today’s effect: Bell was traded and Griffin was cut, so the Broncos signed Travis Henry to a multiyear deal before last season. Unless Henry avoids injuries and off-field controversy or Selvin Young proves he can be more durable, the Broncos’ running back situation is a bit shaky.

WIDE RECEIVER

Picks: Adrian Madise (fifth round, 2003), Darius Watts (second round, 2004), Triandos Luke (sixth round, 2004)

Today’s effect: Watts was the biggest bust, a second-round pick with poor hands. The Broncos traded for Javon Walker, let Walker go and signed free agents Keary Colbert, Darrell Jackson and Samie Parker this offseason because they had few options as a second receiver opposite Brandon Marshall.

OFFENSIVE LINE

Picks: George Foster (first round, 2003), Josh Sewell (sixth round, 2004)

Today’s effect: The Broncos are unsettled at offensive tackle, Foster’s position, after Matt Lepsis retired and might use a high draft pick on one this year. This offseason Denver signed 34-year-old Casey Wiegmann to be Tom Nalen’s backup at center, Sewell’s position.

DEFENSIVE LINE

Picks: Nick Eason (fourth round, 2003), Bryant McNeal (fourth round, 2003), Aaron Hunt (seventh round, 2003), Clint Mitchell (seventh round, 2003)

Today’s effect: All four picks missed, and the Broncos spent a lot of money on free agent defensive linemen that didn’t pan out, including Simeon Rice, Courtney Brown and Sam Adams. They drafted three defensive linemen last year and could select more this year.

LINEBACKER

Picks: Terry Pierce (second round, 2003), D.J. Williams (first round, 2004)

Today’s effect: Williams remains but last year played out of position at middle linebacker, Pierce’s position. The Broncos signed linebackers Niko Koutouvides and Boss Bailey after a poor season last year by the linebackers.

DEFENSIVE BACKS

Picks: Jeremy LeSueur (third round, 2004), Jeff Shoate (fifth round, 2004)

Today’s effect: LeSueur was supposed to be able to play either cornerback or safety. Shoate was a cornerback. Denver used its first three picks on cornerbacks in the 2005 draft and signed Marlon McCree and Marquand Manuel for much needed depth at safety this offseason.



Question for Frank?
Frank Schwab will answer your Broncos questions. Also check out our Broncos blog at gazettebroncos.blogspot.com Send an email!

theAPAOps5
04-20-2008, 12:24 PM
Man this article is going to be saved by Telluride and Wolf4life when they role play in the bedroom together.

Atwater His Ass
04-20-2008, 12:29 PM
I understand the reprecussions of drafting poorly, but I don't understan the infactuation with it. It's the past, move on. We've had better drafts recently and the only thing Denver can do is learn from the mistakes and look foward.

Dudeskey
04-20-2008, 12:39 PM
I understand the reprecussions of drafting poorly, but I don't understan the infactuation with it. It's the past, move on. We've had better drafts recently and the only thing Denver can do is learn from the mistakes and look foward.

because the majority of Shanny's time here, he's drafted poorly. So its not unreasonable to be a skeptic on his ability to draft.

bpc
04-20-2008, 12:40 PM
God damn, i hope this changes. It wouldn't be so bad but a lot of these pics came across as reaches to many on this board. If it was an obvious choice and we missed on it, then I wouldn't complain as much... it was just bad luck. However we pull draft pics out of our ass and then hype them up like they are world beaters...

two years later when they are out of the league our FO just kind of shrugs and says "we missed".

We are severely lacking in the FO. Hopefully Sundquists removal will help us get better at this.

lex
04-20-2008, 12:57 PM
The thing that those picks were so bad that people were first guessing they were mistakes.

montrose
04-20-2008, 01:05 PM
I love these articles that continue to bash the team's drafting using '03 and '04 as examples without referencing the team's vastly improved drafting since. Essentially, this article is about four years late. The Broncos had a problem drafting, and corrected it. Their not the best team drafting, but far from the worst.

kmonty
04-20-2008, 01:18 PM
When you really sit down and think about it, it's actually remarkable the Broncos have only had one really bad season in that time period, given the drafting. It really took a mountain of free agent flops on the DL (Rice, Adams, Kennedy) and a slew injuries on offense (Nalen, Hamilton, Henry, Walker) to derail last year's season.

Despite it all, we were still 7-9. Kinda gives me hope that maybe things aren't so bad after all.

montrose
04-20-2008, 01:34 PM
When you really sit down and think about it, it's actually remarkable the Broncos have only had one really bad season in that time period, given the drafting. It really took a mountain of free agent flops on the DL (Rice, Adams, Kennedy) and a slew injuries on offense (Nalen, Hamilton, Henry, Walker) to derail last year's season.

Despite it all, we were still 7-9. Kinda gives me hope that maybe things aren't so bad after all.

Good point. Measuring how bad things are is likely going to come down to the youngsters we've already drafted in the trenches. If the 2006 draft works out, and when I say works out - that means Jarvis Moss turns into the pass rushing terror we made our 1st round selection, Tim Crowder is a solid starter, Marcus Thomas lives up to his potential as the most talented interior tackle in that draft and Ryan Harris becomes a solid, pass-protecting OT for several years - we're in much better position that it may appear. If things don't work out that well, it's really up in the air. It would appear though, the best thing this team has done in recent years was moving up for Cutler as it has given the team, seemingly, stability at the league's most important position.

Northman
04-20-2008, 01:44 PM
I love these articles that continue to bash the team's drafting using '03 and '04 as examples without referencing the team's vastly improved drafting since. Essentially, this article is about four years late. The Broncos had a problem drafting, and corrected it. Their not the best team drafting, but far from the worst.


Well, to be fair the reason why its 3-4 years late is because that is generally the time the drafted players have shown what they have become. We will probably get another one of these 2 years down the road talking about how Jay and company have turned out. It will probably be a lot more positive but i dont blame them for bringing it up. Those poor drafts did set us back whether we want to agree with it or not.

bpc
04-20-2008, 01:49 PM
I love these articles that continue to bash the team's drafting using '03 and '04 as examples without referencing the team's vastly improved drafting since. Essentially, this article is about four years late. The Broncos had a problem drafting, and corrected it. Their not the best team drafting, but far from the worst.

It's not guaranteed that 07's draft was good yet. We've taken and oft-injured DE in the first round that we traded up to get giving up a 3rd rounder in the process. He got injured twice in practice last year.

Crowder showed solid flashes of being an decent starter vs. the run and pass.

Rumors are coming out about Marcus Thomas and our zero tolerance stance on him and drugs... it seems like it isn't working as he has had several run in's now that the coaches know about. We maybe left holding the bag on him and we traded a 2008 third rounder to reach for him and we may end up flaming on on that selection as well.

I have hope for these guys but i'm not quite sure we haven't learned the error of our ways yet with recent drafts. Like I said before, hopefully Sundquists departure helps solidify a conscience effort to pick up our draft day efforts. I've seen some different things that give me hope. We finally started invited top players to our facility instead of doing this incognito crap that we normally do with our interest in prospects and then select somebody from left field. We need to take advantage of the interview process now more than ever because what this team is entirely lacking is good character guys that have leadership capability. You can't pull that from game film.

Atwater His Ass
04-20-2008, 02:03 PM
because the majority of Shanny's time here, he's drafted poorly. So its not unreasonable to be a skeptic on his ability to draft.

So what? Time to move forward.

Kaylore
04-20-2008, 02:30 PM
That article was terrible. Mauk and Van Pelt were seventh round picks and they contributed to the Broncos and other teams for four seasons. That's more than anyone expects from late rounders.

NFLBRONCO
04-20-2008, 02:32 PM
I say no matter if we did great or bad in past drafts that was the past. The simple truth is if we don't draft really well early we will struggle to the next level. We really need to hit jackpot in six areas OT DT WR RB LB S these all need major upgrades in the next three drafts.

Atwater His Ass
04-20-2008, 02:57 PM
I say no matter if we did great or bad in past drafts that was the past. The simple truth is if we don't draft really well early we will struggle to the next level. We really need to hit jackpot in six areas OT DT WR RB LB S these all need major upgrades in the next three drafts.

Out of that group, only DT and S are what we need the most upgrades at, with DT a long way ahead of S. Second tier, we need OT and LB. Not even sure why you listed WR, we have plenty of depth there now with the recent signings.

OL is a little different. We have a good interior group, although we need replacements as Nalen and Hamiltion are near the end. I would like to see us draft OT to compete with Kuper, Harris, Pears, then try to get an inside guy we can groom later in the draft.

NFLBRONCO
04-20-2008, 03:05 PM
Out of that group, only DT and S are what we need the most upgrades at, with DT a long way ahead of S. Second tier, we need OT and LB. Not even sure why you listed WR, we have plenty of depth there now with the recent signings.

OL is a little different. We have a good interior group, although we need replacements as Nalen and Hamiltion are near the end. I would like to see us draft OT to compete with Kuper, Harris, Pears, then try to get an inside guy we can groom later in the draft.

Good points I was talking next 3 drafts though. OT DT RB WR/KR or ILB are biggest needs this year.

I only put RB because of talent in this draft Denver would be stupid not to draft one.

S- Yeah we need one bad but, we can wait another year.

dsmoot
04-20-2008, 03:08 PM
Out of that group, only DT and S are what we need the most upgrades at, with DT a long way ahead of S. Second tier, we need OT and LB. Not even sure why you listed WR, we have plenty of depth there now with the recent signings.

OL is a little different. We have a good interior group, although we need replacements as Nalen and Hamiltion are near the end. I would like to see us draft OT to compete with Kuper, Harris, Pears, then try to get an inside guy we can groom later in the draft.

If we have such a good interior group, why were they man-handled in the red zone so much. Why is our rushing offense in that area of the field so poor. The low point was certainly Detroit and it didn't get signficantly better. Why was our offense so inept against San Diego last year, it wasn't Cutler.

Dudeskey
04-20-2008, 03:47 PM
So what? Time to move forward.

And cross your fingers... :stirstir:

Atwater His Ass
04-20-2008, 03:52 PM
If we have such a good interior group, why were they man-handled in the red zone so much. Why is our rushing offense in that area of the field so poor. The low point was certainly Detroit and it didn't get signficantly better. Why was our offense so inept against San Diego last year, it wasn't Cutler.

You forgot that Nalen and Hamilton were injured most of last year? And that we had a sub-par Lepsis out there?

Spider
04-20-2008, 04:08 PM
That article was terrible. Mauk and Van Pelt were seventh round picks and they contributed to the Broncos and other teams for four seasons. That's more than anyone expects from late rounders.

Yeah ...... I almost went and looked up what this guy was saying , but you saved me the leg work ......... Thanks ;D

Spider
04-20-2008, 04:10 PM
If we have such a good interior group, why were they man-handled in the red zone so much. Why is our rushing offense in that area of the field so poor. The low point was certainly Detroit and it didn't get signficantly better. Why was our offense so inept against San Diego last year, it wasn't Cutler.

Just a shot in the dark here , but with pro bowlers out of the line up , I would say Depth ? now ask me how many Movies net flix has rented ...........

dsmoot
04-20-2008, 04:21 PM
Just a shot in the dark here , but with pro bowlers out of the line up , I would say Depth ? now ask me how many Movies net flix has rented ...........

As of 2007/08 I would not classify anyone on the Broncos as ProBowlers. Nalen is at the end of the line. Hamilton???. I hope all is well with him and also not a Pro Bowler.

Spider
04-20-2008, 04:27 PM
As of 2007/08 I would not classify anyone on the Broncos as ProBowlers. Nalen is at the end of the line. Hamilton???. I hope all is well with him and also not a Pro Bowler.

and you are ?
big time scout ?
a GM ?

elsid13
04-20-2008, 04:31 PM
People really are missing the best part of the story - "Quarterback Bradlee Van Pelt is playing in a recreational adult soccer league in Santa Barbara, Calif., and is tied for third in the league with 11 goals, according to its Web site."

Spider
04-20-2008, 04:37 PM
People really are missing the best part of the story - "Quarterback Bradlee Van Pelt is playing in a recreational adult soccer league in Santa Barbara, Calif., and is tied for third in the league with 11 goals, according to its Web site."

LOL ..... I liked BVP , if he had the skill to go with his heart ..........

DenverBrit
04-20-2008, 04:38 PM
As of 2007/08 I would not classify anyone on the Broncos as ProBowlers. Nalen is at the end of the line. Hamilton???. I hope all is well with him and also not a Pro Bowler.

Hopefully, Cutler and Marshall, performing up to their talent level, will prove otherwise.

Billy Clyde Puckett
04-20-2008, 04:57 PM
I love these articles that continue to bash the team's drafting using '03 and '04 as examples without referencing the team's vastly improved drafting since. Essentially, this article is about four years late. The Broncos had a problem drafting, and corrected it. Their not the best team drafting, but far from the worst.

No to mention they were two very down years for the draft overall. Several other teams had just as bad a record in those two years.

montrose
04-20-2008, 05:05 PM
Well, to be fair the reason why its 3-4 years late is because that is generally the time the drafted players have shown what they have become. We will probably get another one of these 2 years down the road talking about how Jay and company have turned out. It will probably be a lot more positive but i dont blame them for bringing it up. Those poor drafts did set us back whether we want to agree with it or not.

I understand it takes time to assess drafting. But all of these articles referencing '03 and'04 act as if the Broncos are this terrible drafting team every year, it's still a problem and here's the '03 and '04 drafts as proof. It's as if the Broncos were to completely bomb this year and next year's draft and in three years from now we get an article on the greatness of the Broncos current drafting because of Cutler, Marshall, etc. You want to say the '03 and '04 drafts were busts? Absolutely, everyone knows that - it's old news. But how about referencing, just referencing, that the Broncos have had numerous solid picks since.

It's not guaranteed that 07's draft was good yet. We've taken and oft-injured DE in the first round that we traded up to get giving up a 3rd rounder in the process. He got injured twice in practice last year.

Crowder showed solid flashes of being an decent starter vs. the run and pass.

Rumors are coming out about Marcus Thomas and our zero tolerance stance on him and drugs... it seems like it isn't working as he has had several run in's now that the coaches know about. We maybe left holding the bag on him and we traded a 2008 third rounder to reach for him and we may end up flaming on on that selection as well.

I have hope for these guys but i'm not quite sure we haven't learned the error of our ways yet with recent drafts. Like I said before, hopefully Sundquists departure helps solidify a conscience effort to pick up our draft day efforts. I've seen some different things that give me hope. We finally started invited top players to our facility instead of doing this incognito crap that we normally do with our interest in prospects and then select somebody from left field. We need to take advantage of the interview process now more than ever because what this team is entirely lacking is good character guys that have leadership capability. You can't pull that from game film.

I agree, we can't grade the '07 draft yet by a longshot. My comments were more in line with the '05 and '06 drafts.

Inkana7
04-20-2008, 05:08 PM
As pointless as the article was, the title is quite clever.

TheChamp24
04-20-2008, 06:00 PM
I thought it was funny they kept on mentioning the 6th and 7th rounders that were "busts". I'm sorrry, but when those guys don't pan out, its not the end of the world.

rovolution
04-20-2008, 06:02 PM
i just posted it cause i thought it was interesting Terry Pierce became an entreprenuer and wouldnt do it over again if he had the chance.

They had the picture of him too in the Paper this morning (not on the online version of the article)

Ziggy
04-20-2008, 06:31 PM
I think it's a fair article. The bottom line is that Shanahan has failed to produce consistent positive results in the draft. Because of it, we have fallen behind a lot of teams in core talent. For those of you who say Shanahan is not responsible for the picks, I say this. He either hired the people who drafted, or let the ones that were already there stay way too long. I love Shanahan the coach, but the only thing that Shanahan the FO guy has done is deplete the overall talent of this team.

Spider
04-20-2008, 06:39 PM
I realy thought Pierce would have became the new office linebacker .........
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Merlin
04-20-2008, 08:36 PM
“Those weren’t good drafts or free agency, obviously,” Denver coach Mike Shanahan said after last season. “That stands for itself.”...Shanahan acknowledged that those drafts didn’t help...He said the Broncos had the talent to win 10 games last year, and the expectation might have been 13 wins had there not been two wasted drafts...“If we had some of those drafts, it would be different,” Shanahan said.
Interesting how critical he is of the draft and FAs. Then Sundquist seems to get overridden on the draft, the draft gets better and then Sunquist is let go.

A lot of people blame Shanny for the drafts and FAs, but if the issue were truly him and not someone like...Sundquist...then you don't let the latter go. Just some food for thought. He certainly sounds critical of it, which might suggest he is pi$$ed at someone other than himself.

Yeah, yeah, to sound like you know your football is better to just lay all the blame on Shanny and call him an egomaniac bent on total control. Weird though, how he seems to listen to his coaches and pick players they like.

broncogary
04-20-2008, 09:00 PM
No to mention they were two very down years for the draft overall. Several other teams had just as bad a record in those two years.

Just for fun, I'd like to know which teams those were.

dsmoot
04-20-2008, 09:44 PM
and you are ?
big time scout ?
a GM ?

I never made that claim. I respect your opinion because mine certainly isn't any better than yours. I made an objective observation. Disagree without the intent of being disagreeable. I just don't see the Denver offensive line anywhere near Superbowl quality.

Spider
04-21-2008, 04:08 PM
I never made that claim. I respect your opinion because mine certainly isn't any better than yours. I made an objective observation. Disagree without the intent of being disagreeable. I just don't see the Denver offensive line anywhere near Superbowl quality.

Evaluating talent in the NFL is a bitch , Athletes have ups and downs like the rest of us , there are times I leave out on the road and nothing goes right , the more I try the worse things get , Then other trips nothing can go wrong , everythng is a breeze , but when things go wrong it isnt that I am a bad driver , it is just karma ......... By the way I owe the city of Denver an apology ........ 14-5 high stack of crushed cars on a flat bed going down speer blvd at 1:30 in the morning .... Speer is not a truck route .My bad ;D